>And no one replied directly to my point and instead came on
>here like their feelings were hurt.

I replied directly to you saying "people need to be honest about Dre's mediocre output".


>Snoop has Doggystyle and nothing great after. I understand he
>has some albums that people like but nothing is a classic
>other than his debut.

Your opinion.


>Em has no classics.

Your opinion.


>His career has been a gimmick and his
>lead singles are novelty songs.

Your opinion.


>I do give Dre a ton of credit
>for bringing him out because it worked like a charm with the
>ignorant hip-hop fan.

And now we get to the gist of your issue. You spew your opinion like it's gospel and claim that the rest of us need to "start being honest" about where Dre really stands in the pantheon of hip-hop. When in reality, not only are we all entitled to our OWN opinions like you are, but THE MAJORITY of rap fans are on the other side of this particular issue from you.

My point was that you're speaking out of both sides of your mouth. Which is it? Are we all entitled to our opinions like you are? Or is anyone who disagrees with you (which again, in this case, happens to be the majority of people) "wrong" and need to start "being honest" about Dre? It's such a ridiculous discussion to have to have with an adult that I can't believe I'm still talking about it.

This whole "it worked like a charm with the ignorant hip-hop fan" is not only a ridiculous statement, it's insulting to the millions of actual rap fans who may agree with your overall sentiment that the marketing of Eminem was unfortunate because it outshined everything else about him, but still can see the IMMENSE WRITING TALENT HE POSSESSES. Not to mention that hiphop fans are probably split just about 50/50 on whether or not he has a classic album.


>And I say this while holding he opinion
>that there may not be an MC better than Em in regards to rhyme
>structure.

At least you recognize that.


>D.O.C. has a classic album but I don't know if I can say that
>he was a "game changer"

Sure.


>50s career has been based around hype since How To Rob. Also,
>Em brought him out and used Dre for the first single and for
>his machine. 50 was everywhere with the mix tapes so that was
>a homerun for these dudes.

That's fine. But let's look at facts. Dre exec produced both Get Rich...and The Massacre. One is widely considered the best debut album of the 00s, sold ridiculously well, and spawned, what, 4 or 5 billboard topping singles not to mention potentially the most popular rap song of the 00s; and the other achieved the best first week sales in the history of music at the time and spawned more popular singles and was critically acclaimed. What have his non-Dre-involved albums done since then? Shit. Where is his career now? He's starting YouTube fights and selling vitamin water. I'm sure he's still financially in great shape, but his music fell apart once Dre stepped aside.


>So those are the people that were listed in this post as "game
>changers" along with Kendrick which Dre hasn't even done
>anything with.

Again, your opinion on their music is your opinion, but to deny that, at the very least, Snoop and Eminem made a HUGE impact on the music is being dishonest. The facts are not on your side.

Snoop's sound, lazy drawl, flow, style, dress, etc., were widely emulated for YEARS after Doggystyle came out. I'm saying most of the 90s. Whether or not you think he's made any good music since is irrelevent, he STILL has impact on his genre even if it's just based on his persona more than the actual music. But, regardless of his current status, AT THE TIME HE CAME OUT, there is NO DENYING that he changed the game, which is the point of this post.

Eminem coming out spawned about, I dunno, 6 trillion copy-cat white rappers for years following his initial release. Rappers attacked him (Benzino, Canibus) just for the sake of attacking the popular white guy. People emulated his style, emulated his music, shit motherfuckers were straight up BLEACHING THEIR HAIR just to look like the guy. Game changer..the point of this post.

50 Cent, again, whether or not you like him, also changed the direction of rap upon his debut, although to a lesser extent. For the 4 or 5+ years prior to his release, gangsta rap style had taken a back seat to the more soulful stuff, the more conscious stuff. 50 Cent's major label release brought gangsta rap back to the forefront and again, rappers were emulating the style, going harder on tracks, making rougher beats, etc. Game changer. The point of this post.

Again, your opinion of their music is sort of irrelevent to the point of this post. Whether you like it or not, the music Dre has released in his career has broken rap barriers of their respective times more often than they haven't.


>My problem is that people on his site want to sweep Dres
>negatives under the rug.

That's really neither here nor there. You responded directly to the original post about "game changers" saying Dre has "mediocre output", ignoring the larger point that regardless of your indivudual opinion, Dre has had and housed artists who have had MAJOR IMPACT on the genre.


>I'm not trying to take anything away from him. NWA, Chronic,
>Doggystyle, and No One Can Do It Better are all great. And
>then he has some good output on top of that.

Then stop taking it away from him. Your whole argument is based on taking things away from him.


>I just don't think he doesn't have flaws like people in this
>post.

Again, this is off subject, but I'd love for you to point out ANYWHERE in this post or on this board where anyone said that Dre was without flaws and perfect. Actually, don't waste your time. Cause no one ever said that.


>He has a ton of artists that were shelved. Artists like Em
>and Snoop have more mediocre shit than not.

Your opinion. Irrelevent to the point of this post.


>And he ghost
>production stories is a knock because there is just too many
>of them.

Without proof they're just that...stories. Prove one of them and I'll give it some thought. Otherwise, they have to be written off as pure jealousy trying to take down the man on the top. Anyone that matters in rap (his peers like Pete Rock, Primo; and rappers who matter who have worked with him) will sing his praises because they don't have reasons to be jealous of him (Daz, for example, did have reason to be).


>Dre is a legend and I put him on the Mount Rushmore for his
>impact.

That's all you needed to say


>But his impact is greater than his quality when you actual
>break it down.

Your opinion, and you're in the minority.


>If people turn a blind eye to that then it's on them.

What you meant to say is "if people disagree with me then that's their opinion". Again, this is your problem. You can't just say "I don't like his music" without telling the rest of us "the fact that you do like his music is a problem and you're wrong for liking it". I don't understand this thought process at all.


>I just find the amounts of mad in this post at the thought of
>a negative thing about Dre being possible is hilarious.

People's "amount of mad" has nothing to do with you saying "a negative thing about Dre". The "amount of mad" is about someone (you) trying to tell the majority that they need to "be honest" about their own opinions (in other words, telling us we need to change ours to match up with yours because yours is right) rather than just saying what you, after much prying, finally acknowledged above: Anonymous doesn't think Dre's work is all that good, but agrees that his impact is 2nd to none. He recognizes that the majority of rap fans disagree with him but still is entitled to his own opinion, just like the rest of us are ours. But Dre's impact is undenyable.

This is simple.