lol

pete's response
Minutes after Lupe Fiasco debuted his new single "Around My Way (Freedom Ain't Free)," veteran producer Pete Rock took to Twitter to put the Atlantic Records recording artist on blast.

The song is a direct remake of Pete and C.L. Smooth's "T.R.O.Y. (They Reminisce Over You)," but according to the producer, it wasn't done out of respect for the original.

"No disrespect to lupe fiasco and i like him alot but TROY should be left alone. Feel so violated,the beat is next to my heart and was made... Outta anguish and pain. When it's like that it should not be touched by no one!" he wrote. "It's so hard for folks to make original music, I possess that, but these dudes are scared of that and this is supposed to be HIP HOP?

"Man I'm a lupe fan and everything but TROY was my homie man. I think about him and Hev every fucking day!!!! Smh," he continued. "Who ever Re-created that didn't do a good job @ all. #nohate."


http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=2697273&mesg_id=2697273&listing_type=search#2697316

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/They_Reminisce_Over_You_(T.R.O.Y.)

"The duo of Rock and Smooth themselves lent their voices to an updated 2003 version of the song titled "Reminisce '03", by Mr. Cheeks, and produced by Mr. Sexx. Although Pete is present on the track himself, he would later make disparaging comments about it after his final split with CL Smooth. In 2008, DJ Greg Street made a remake of the song titled "Dope Boyz", which features Lupe Fiasco, Wale and Kardinal Offishall."

he just didnt like this version..its his right

when Puffy made "PE 2000" the remake of PE's "Public enemy # 1" PE didnt complain

Lykke Li has covered about a thousand hip-hop songs, the. There's that one chick on YouTube spitting Busta songs.

I think I misunderstood something, because there's plenty of hip-hop covers.

>Lykke Li has covered about a thousand hip-hop songs, the.
>There's that one chick on YouTube spitting Busta songs.
>
>I think I misunderstood something, because there's plenty of
>hip-hop covers.

i meant...cats dont like it (its not accpeted)

AND its not a cover if the original artist is a part of it...lol

cats in NY dissed the shit out of snoops la di da di...

i mean...if covers in hip hop were viable... why hasnt there ever been a hit

i think TWINS is prolly the most accepted and that was really just a freestyle

**how many producers have now dissed people for re-sampling the records and re-doing collages

the shit is anti-hip hop

thats the real reason pete is mad. it aint about "sampling"

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas

http://www.last.fm/user/NodimaChee
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
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.

same folks ain't have nothing to say when Mos bit Rick

not true...

didnt fashion children's story

mos did re-write though... and the beat was original

i still aint like it all the same lol

There Was Rap.

Unless none of those count because the concept was that it was an album of covers. Because... you know, we make random exceptions here.

and i never heard any of those played anywhere...

u know why?

cuz the DJ would just play the original LOL

and you so smart...didnt u realize the original post makes reference to a "cover" song

smfh

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=2697273&mesg_id=2697273&listing_type=search

whatever..just cuz Pete Rock said its law? FOH

>http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=2697273&mesg_id=2697273&listing_type=search
>
>whatever..just cuz Pete Rock said its law? FOH

1 - i linked the post in the OG post

2 - as i stated in the OG post... everybody disses when somebody does it

lol

and

3 - why hasnt there been a hit

many times people who do covers in other genres SURPASS the original.

its NEVER happened in hip hop

they should have got everyone who was on the comp to do a big long real 15 minute posse cut over RApper Delights

that Def Squad joint playing.


I think rapper persona is so obsessed with being original and unique for the 375th time that covers aren't often explored, let alone accepted.
It isn't a genre that's about paying homage. For the longest time rappers would say shit like "I don't even listen to rap anymore," or they'd only give respect to themselves and the people around them. Shit, even from the fan point of view, it isn't okay to be a fan unless everyone else is. "Stan" was a song about someone with an unhealthy obsession, and people use the term to call someone a bitch for being a fan of a particular artist.

We already know the expected responses to an artist putting a cover on an album.
"Do your own shit/get off my dick/you lack creativity."
I think the older the genre gets, the more it warms up to mutual respect, and now is just as good a time to try it out (as there seems to be a lot of changes happening), but it still isn't well explored territory.

i was born in the 70s but was a huge def squad fan...and dont remember it getting THAT much play

ironic...when the sugarhil gang was biters anyway... i digress

i agree with everything u said after that though...

hip hop dont lend itself to covers...parodies...reinventions yes...

covers NO

On the beat side of things (and I know this might be weird), but if you're going to rap over a "T.R.O.Y."-like beat, you might as well rap over the Pete Rock version.

I have NO problem w/ people flipping the same samples, but I'm not big on going thru the trouble of re-arranging/chopping a sample(s) just to make it sound like a beat already out there. What's the point? And almost w/o fail, the re-done beat always sounds cheaper.....a flawed copy.

On the rapping side of things, I think because hip-hop is such a lyric-heavy genre in which vocals are mostly spoken/rapped, it doesn't leave much room for reinterpretation in comparison to other genres in regards to their covers. It's hard to make a rap-cover stand out from the original, imo, because if it's a straight cover lyrically, you're just reciting.



__
I don't like the beat anymore because its just a loop. ALC didn't FLIP IT ENOUGH!

Flip it enough? Flip these. Flip off. Go flip some f*cking burgers.(c)Kno

Allied State of the National Electric Beat Treaty Organization (NEBTO)

the same conversation is going on on my fb page as we speak. swizzy.....

Tee Love it's a STRAIGHT jack tho. i think lupe intends for this shit to be iconic somehow and he's piggy-backing off of pete rock in the process, imo.
5 hours ago · Like
'Prince' Vaughn Sanders lol, he's buggin like soulja boy got on n destroyed it... atleast wasalu speaks about somethin... im pretty sure majority of hip hop today and back then is sample after sample so... he needs to go sit down
4 hours ago · Like
Lilian Chavez Pete got the permission/blessing from the person he sampled.
4 hours ago via mobile · Like
Jeremy Roshun WHo told you that^^ naaah he didnt either, it was a big thing because the label had to go back and get aaaall those samples cleared.
4 hours ago · Like
Jeremy Roshun Anyways, PEte as much as i love you soul brotha.. You gots to chill.. He didnt even make the beat, besides, you sampled as well.. so an angry sampler being mad about a sample is kind of dumb..
4 hours ago · Like
Tee Love so as long as you rap conscious you can jack anything you want?
4 hours ago · Like · 1
Jeremy Roshun if sampling is jacking, isn't pete rock jack the ripper?
4 hours ago · Like
Lilian Chavez Jeremy: Pete Rock did. He even got a co-sign. Go read his Twitter TL. T.R.O.Y. was a heart-felt personal tribute. It wasn't just any regular joint to Pete. THAT'S what got to Pete. Plus the fact that the person who did the beat for Lupe did...
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4 hours ago via mobile · Like
Lilian Chavez The fact that nothing was really done to the beat makes it a "beat jack" and furthermore makes it messed up that Lu is taking a step further into selling it.
4 hours ago via mobile · Like
Lilian Chavez Lu has already rapped over the beat and released it before (the song "Dope Boy") but he didn't sell it for profit because the beat wasn't his. I think that's why Pete didn't make it a big deal before.
3 hours ago via mobile · Like
Tee Love ‎^^^knows her shit^^^
3 hours ago · Like
Jeremy Roshun Yeh if only it were true though, dont believe the twitter hype Lilian.. I know the truth behind that and HE didnt clear anything.. The labels did..
3 hours ago · Like
Jeremy Roshun Don't catch a frog and call it a snake because your best friend told you it was a snake.. ITS NOT EITHER OF THEIR SONG lol.. They both sampled, thats like the handicapped man with paper clip legs gets mad that a child with the same paper clip legs runs faster than he does.. think about it..
3 hours ago · Like
Lilian Chavez even if they did. He ended up getting it cleared. Lupe didn't and he also didn't get the sample flipped or any of that, which makes it a beat-jack.
3 hours ago via mobile · Like
Lilian Chavez Selling a beat jack? No dice. And Lupe knows that's wrong which is why he never sold "Dope Boy".
3 hours ago via mobile · Like
Jeremy Roshun He used the same sample, not a complete beat jack... what are you talking about.. Tom Scott is the one that should be mad...
3 hours ago · Like
Lilian Chavez He's selling this one wrongfully. And I don't know of a producer who calls a beat-jack "sampling". Obviously I'm not seeing something you are. So what is it exactly that was DIFFERENTLY sampled on "Around My Way" that set it apart from T.R.O.Y. that makes it sampled vs a beat jack?
3 hours ago via mobile · Like
Tee Love Tom Scott should be mad? He's the originator of the element that makes that song memorable, right? my guess is that pete rock probably ended up doing a favor for dude cuz a lot of other people had to take notice of his catalog because pete ...
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3 hours ago · Like · 1
Lilian Chavez Once again, I'm talking "sampling". Not the weak drums that were poorly added. Tom Scott was sampled. His whole beat wasn't taken and sprinkled with weak drums.
3 hours ago via mobile · Like
Tee Love hmph. speak of the devil. the same convo is going on here-------->http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=2702045&mesg_id=2702045&page

Okayplayer.com Boards - Viewing topic #2702045 - does Pete's response prove there are no hip hop cov
board.okayplayer.com
lolpete's responseMinutes after Lupe Fiasco debuted his new single "Around My Wa...

Fat Joe & Big Pun "Twinz" was well received, but they had Snoop in the video as a co-sign
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiwvPmRTv6M&ob=av2n
BTW, this is one of my favorite Pun videos, and he had some good ones... When Snoop tells him there was a snitch in his crew and he gets up and walks out of the barbershop with shavin cream on, LOL!

etc..is the pot calling the kettle black

an artform founded on takeing other music has no room for self rightgousness now

and PR himself who still eats off of takeing other peoples work and reinterpreting it is hypocritical


maybye Tom Scott has a personal attatchment to "today" which was a cover of a Jefferson Airplane version of "today" that they also had a personal attatchment to lol

the whole thing is really ridiculous

yeah PR's a legend and the song is emotional to him but he needs to shut up because he is putting his foot in his mouth and opening himself up from all angles

u can honestly listen to tom scotts song and pete rocks song and get the same emotion from both... is it really the same song..

is the arrangement the same???

is pete saying they couldnt sample tom scott?

or is he complaining that he replayed the same bass section of the record...replayed the same horn section of the record and replayed the same vocal that pete took.

polo makes clothes for everyone...but if you see my outfit and then go copy all pieces and how i freaked it... are you really gonna say "i got the outfit from ralph lauren anyway"

lol

they stole the whole arrangement...his whole idea

its just dumb

.

-------------------------
“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

>u can honestly listen to tom scotts song and pete rocks song
>and get the same emotion from both... is it really the same
>song..
>
>is the arrangement the same???
>
>is pete saying they couldnt sample tom scott?
>
>or is he complaining that he replayed the same bass section of
>the record...replayed the same horn section of the record and
>replayed the same vocal that pete took.
>
>polo makes clothes for everyone...but if you see my outfit and
>then go copy all pieces and how i freaked it... are you really
>gonna say "i got the outfit from ralph lauren anyway"
>
>lol
>
>they stole the whole arrangement...his whole idea
>
>its just dumb


__
I don't like the beat anymore because its just a loop. ALC didn't FLIP IT ENOUGH!

Flip it enough? Flip these. Flip off. Go flip some f*cking burgers.(c)Kno

Allied State of the National Electric Beat Treaty Organization (NEBTO)

this is Allen A. Jones shit.

THAT is why Pete is upset.

they could have played the record "Today" straight and Pete wouldn't have said shit.

It didn't matter if it was a tribute or to honor something from the past, you just didn't to it. That was the lazy way to make music, and you were often ignored or passed up as a waste.

Can one get the same feeling from hearing Tom Scott's "Today"? No. Before 1992, Tom Scott was just that smooth jazz guy who got lucky by being the bandleader of a late night talk show. For most people in hip-hop, he was as washed up as most people thought James Brown was. Hip-hop saved his name from being the guy whose records you always saw in the dollar bin. Yes, Tom Scott had a few other records that had a few beats here and there, but "Today" is nothing more than a sunshine jazz/pop cover of a psychedelic rock song. It was "cheese". What Pete Rock (or Large Professor, depending on whose side of the story you believe) did with that sample was make something very insignificant into something that honored family and friends. There was a lot of pride in that, without getting into production or sample politics.

Before people knew that sample was Tom Scott, that was just the cool song when, as soon as you heard The Beginning Of The End sample, you stopped. No one had to say anything, that too was almost unspoken. Forget hardcore, forget gangsta, forget East Coast, West Coast, ATL, mid-west, Philly: everyone stopped when that song came. That was honor, that was integrity.

Now, is all of that really important and/or necessary? We, as hip-hop fans, want to say yes. There was a community from a certain time period who became very protective of that song because of what the content within that song meant. It was very much a eulogy not only about friends, but about the passing of time, the marking of time, from youth to being grown. Many people felt that song not just because it honored a friend, because it seemed as a collective, everyone felt that transition. Looking back, it was as if we all felt as if we were all growing older "as one". Forget the fact that most of "us" didn't connection, we felt the music was global because that's what magazines and TV told us. The internet proved it. Which leads me to the question once more...


Now, is all of that really important and/or necessary? In a way, no. In other forms of music, to cover someone means you're honoring the song. Sometimes, the songwriter. Sometimes, the original singer, or the singer that made it famous. When people sing "Killing Me Softly", very few think of Lori Lieberman. It's all about Roberta Flack because she made it hers. Lieberman herself didn't write the song. Joan Jett's "I Love Rock'N'Roll"? Jett didn't write that either, but it is "hers". Do we, as fans, become selfish in the process of being over-protective by something as silly as a song? Then again, hip-hop was very much about originality. When you paid homage, it was in passing, like a casual dap. In music, that might be equal to Posdnuos saying a line such as "like my man, Chuck D., said, "what a brother know". Prince Paul didn't use "Get Off Your Ass And Jam" to create that De La Soul song, nor did Pos interpolate Chuck D.'s verse in "Bring The Noise". It was homage, equal to what jazz, rock, soul, and funk musicians have done for years.


"T.R.O.Y." is hip-hop's "Killing Me Softly". Before The Fugees, no one ever thought of touching it. Jazz musicians, easy listening, of course, but that's part of the music industry norm: to keep the royalty funds active. When people heard Lupe touch on the vibe that made "T.R.O.Y." what it is, it was looked upon *by some* as "the music industry norm, nothing more than something to catch the ear/attention of people who know, and thus it renews and recycles the same old thing for the sake of making money. Yes, one can also ask "but isn't that exactly what Pete Rock did too?" Again, Tom Scott was a saxophonist whose music was deemed shit. That record (Scott's HONEYSUCKLE BREEZE) was a dollar bin album. Now? Try to find it under $20. Try to find it.


Bottom line is: it shows the differences between one generation and another. One generation lives by the creed of not covering a song. It also knew the difference between covering, sampling, and interpolating. Producers knew, fans learned but understood, there was a healthy exchange. If you wished to know, you seeked that information. Those who didn't care... didn't care. A generation of hip-hop was built on the premise of creating from scratch. The Lupe song came off to some as nothing more than "ooh, I'm going to rhyme off of T.R.O.Y., let's do this."

Any different from any rapper doing it on a mixtape, rhyming over it at a live show, or using the record during a freestyle on the radio? Absolutely not. Even if you take Pete Rock out of the equation, it's almost as if people are wanting to place value into what Lupe Fiasco is doing. You're going to have Lupe fans going "that beat is dope, that's the hot shit right there" and on the flipside, others saying "Lupe was done five years ago, fuck his shit, that only helps to burn the integrity he never really had in the first place." In the process, we're all talking about this song. Even though people are blasting Lupe for it, he's winning by everyone promoting it without having to pay for the services.











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I'm sorry...

Covers/beat jacks/ tributes

whatever you want to call them

have BEEN happening


The only difference here is that its Lupe + Pete Rock literally crying on the web.

Its not a generational thing. At all.


Its people having double standards when it comes to Lupe and apparently TROY

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"T.R.O.Y." is held in high esteem, Pete made a purse out of a sow's ear (and even Tom Scott agrees), and for the most part, it was left alone. People sampled it, but they didn't really stray from the vibe of the song.

>I'm sorry...
>
>Covers/beat jacks/ tributes
>
>whatever you want to call them
>
>have BEEN happening

^^^^ this is correct. Snoop has done it often. It wasn't always liked, but for the most part people didn't trip.

Black Star covered "Children's Story" and flipped it. People didn't trip.

Beanie Sigel and Memph Bleek took on EPMD's "So Whatcha Saying" respectably. Beanie also did his own take on "Beats To The Rhyme".

Cam'ron redid "Bout It Bout It". Jim Jones redid "Boyz In The Hood".

Now some extremists would have called them BITING, but each one of them put their own personal take on those songs.


>The only difference here is that its Lupe + Pete Rock
>literally crying on the web.

I don't think so here. I will acknowledge some might be like "oh, there go Lupe again..." but really, if it wasn't Lupe and someone put out THAT beat, I think Pete Rock would have still cried foul. Because even though you could easily call it a tribute, the beatmaker simply did not go far enough to make his track better than Pete's.

Pete even prefaced his comments with being a fan of Lupe. He just didn't like someone taking his idea and not doing anything dope with it. I guess you can liken that to people who don't like their work being sampled, but I think it's more like Miles Davis talking about people making wack covers of songs he wrote.

covers aren't artistic
just to sell records, they are for
dude talkin' about they been happenin
is only takin' into account new school era
in the golden era, this was frowned upon
aka what johnbook is sayin'

>covers aren't artistic
>just to sell records, they are for
>dude talkin' about they been happenin
>is only takin' into account new school era
>in the golden era, this was frowned upon
>aka what johnbook is sayin'

both mine and Stadiq's examples were from the 1990s forward. i.e. "been happening". 20+ years ain't long enough?

johnbook spoke on how it once was. which is true.

>johnbook spoke on how it once was. which is true.

fuck the 1990s
hip hop went to shit with all the new mufuckas tryin' to get on the scene
no integrity
now you got this payin' homage bitin' shit
and mofos arguin' over who bit less/more

*bumps the golden era marley marl hits and turns it up louder*

Pete Rock Shout
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUt82Sx7uxU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

DJ Premiere on Elmatic insumentals
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYNptz4gm28&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Two things I wonder

Would Pete have been okay if TROY was straight sampled? I mean, it sounds close enough that for the sake of whatever, in this particular case, I treat it as one. I get that technically it isn't, but the allusion/reference isn't a secret to anyone. At all. I think having the song rebuilt was an odd choice, but if proper credit goes to the proper places, I won't even look at that shit twice.

My other question is about Lupe's intent. Not the producer's. I haven't actually read ANYTHING about production credit regarding this song. But was this a case of "intertextuality." Was he using it to cover an old school vibe ( I mean, he's got the yelling hook and everything)? Was he trying to bring the song to people's current attention? Shit, did he just like the beat? I can't say what his intent was (this is why I'm asking for others to speculate), but I can say that I doubt he meant any disrespect by it. I get that people would say that this wasn't the point (as I don't think Pete Rock probably doesn't think so), but I think that his intention, while not necessarily pardoning, could possibly hold some weight.

Glad u silenced it :)

off of it, I don't see them being too upset if somebody covers their song and gets them some more money.

I know a lot of rappers signed jacked up contracts, but the people who were on top of their shit probably get happy as hell when someone covers one of their songs.

He gave a shout out to Elzhi that's on the album. And there's that video of Premiere listening to the Elmatic instrumentals and he's digging it.

*CROCKA*

word booty.

HSUBAKCITS

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http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r9/chowyunskinny/Gold%20Chef/iron_chef.jpg

it's a classic but it's also a tribute to a fallen brother...

I think what the song represents makes it untouchable IMO.

I have no problem with most covers or resampled hip hop beats but TROY is probably one of the few songs in hip hop you have to clear with the producer. It's like Charles Hamilton and the Dilla incident. Slow down and use the proper channels...

Once again Lupe shows his lack of respect IMO when it comes to a classic. WTF was he thinking? I bet he is on some "it's just a song to me" but damn... I really think Lupe is one of those smart/dumb niggas.

I really wish Lupe would have cleared it first because the song sounds dope and I love Lupe but it's like he has no respect for anything. I wonder how he would/will feel if someone jacked whatever song he holds close to his heart. Maybe he doesn't give a fuck but he has to know other do...

that being said... it's hip hop and one could say "not giving a fuck" is part of the culture......

I guess?

they replayed it...

a mechanical license to jefferson starship(?)

tom scott nor pete owned the rights...

thats a whole nother discussion though

Can you really consider it a cover if the original lyrics weren't used?

Nicolay

http://www.theforeignexchangemusic.com

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEeBBSf8LQ0