Isnt it about times that we have our own list of important songs?

Im more concerned with the popular hip hop songs that are widely known within the hip hop culture (not the mainstream)

other genres of music have their own standards
jazz
blues
pop

what are hip hops?

cause I'm not entirely clear what you're looking for, but I'm intrigued by the idea I think.

http://www.trueguitarist.com/a-list-of-the-most-popular-jazz-standards/

A Nightingale Sang In Berkeley Sqare

Agua De Beber

Ain’t Misbehavin’

All Blues

All of Me

All of You

All Or Nothing At All

All the Things You Are

Alone Together

Angel Eyes

Autumn Leaves

Beautiful Love

Billie’s Bounce

Blue Bossa

Blue Monk

Blue Moon

Body and Soul

But Not For Me

Bye Bye Blackbird

C Jam Blues

Caravan

Chelsea Bridge

Cherokee

Come Rain Or Come Shine

Cry Me a River

Darn That Dream

Days of Wine and Roses

Desafinado

Do Nothin’ Till You Hear From Me

Don’t Get Around Much Anymore

Donna Lee

Doxy

Easy to Love

Embraceable You

Estate

Everything Happens to Me

Everytime We Say Goodbye

Fly Me To The Moon

Foggy Day

Four

Gee Baby Ain’t I Good to You

Gentle Rain

Georgia On My Mind

Giant Steps

Girl From Ipanema

God Bless the Child

Good Bait

Green Dolphin Street

Have You Met Miss Jones

Here’s That Rainy Day

How Deep is the Ocean

How High the Moon

How Insensitive

How Long Has This Been Going On

I Can’t Get Started

I Could Write a Book

I Didn’t Know What Time It Was

I Get a Kick Out of You

I Got Rhythm/Rhythm Changes

I Hear a Rhapsody

I Loves You Porgy

I Remember You

I Should Care

I Thought About You

I’ll Remember April

I’ve Got You Under My Skin

If I Should Lose You

If I Were a Bell

Impressions

In A Sentimental Mood

Invitation

Isn’t It Romantic

It Ain’t Necessarily So

It Could Happen to You

It Don’t Mean A Thing

It Had to Be You

Jitterbug Waltz

Joy Spring

Just Friends

Just One of Those Things

Killer Joe

Lady Is A Tramp

Laura

Lazy bird

Like Someone In Love

Love For Sale

Lover Man

Lullaby Of Birdland

Lush Life

Mack the Knife

Maiden Voyage

Mercy, Mercy, Mercy

Misty

Moanin’

Mr. P.C.

My Favorite Things

My Foolish Heart

My Funny Valentine

My Little Suede Shoes

My One and Only Love

My Romance

Nardis

Nature Boy

Night and Day

Night In Tunisia

Now’s The Time

Old Devil Moon

Old Folks

Oleo

On A Slow Boat To China

On The Sunny Side Of The Street

One Note Samba

Over The Rainbow

Polka Dots and Moonbeams

Prelude To A Kiss

Quiet Nights of Quiet Stars (Corcovado)

Round Midnight

Satin Doll

Scrapple From The Apple

Smile

Smoke Gets In Your Eyes

So What

Softly as In A Morning Sunrise

Solar

Someday My Prince Will Come

Someone To Watch Over Me

Somewhere Over the Rainbow

Song For My Father

Sonnymoon For Two

Speak Low

St. Thomas

Stella By Starlight

Stormy Weather

Straight No Chaser

Sugar

Summertime

Sunny

Sweet Georgia Brown

Take Five

Take the “A” Train

Tea For Two

The Man I Love

The Nearness of You

The Night Has 1000 Eyes

The Shadow Of Your Smile

The Very Thought of You

The Way You Look Tonight

There is No Greater Love

There Will Never Be Another You

They Can’t Take That Away From Me

Things Ain’t What They Used to Be

This Masquerade

Time After Time

Tune Up

Watermelon Man

Wave

Well You Needn’t

What is This Thing Called Love

When I Fall In Love

When Sunny Gets Blue

Work Song

Yesterdays

You and the Night and the Music

You Don’t Know What Love Is

You’d Be So Nice To Come Home To

songs that have stood the test of time in multiple versions and interpretations are often referred to as pop standards

http://top40.about.com/od/top10lists/tp/popstandards.htm

my basis: songs that are pretty ubiquitous and for whom multiple (if not all) lyrics are known fairly commonly

Airtight A-list:
- Rappers Delight
- The Message

Arguables:
- Paid In Full
- La-Di-Da-Di and/or The Show
- Fight the Power


Iffy But Might Still Qualify:
- The Breaks
- Baby Got Back
- Jump Around
- Just a Friend
- Big Pimpin (Jay-Z)


more later

needs to be on every and any one of these lists.

But otherwise, good selections.

Agreed

I agree w your airtight and arguables list.

I dont know if the "iffys" quite make the cut though as they are popular but I dont know if "Jump around" for instance resonates with the avaerage hip hop head on the West coast the same as PIF or The Message would

...that probably the most known rap song of all time

South Bronx
Roxanne Roxanne
PSK

Me So Horny
SouthernPlayalisticCadallacMusik
Pocket Full of Stones

Straight Out of Compton
6 in The Morning
and Yes I agree...Nothin But A G Thang


This is my short list off the dome assuming I really understand the criteria.

I'm just thinking groundbreaking or highly impactful songs.

and the first 3 u mentioned

the others I dont know

good list tho

>South Bronx

middling no

>Roxanne Roxanne

middling no

>PSK

definite no

>Me So Horny

>SouthernPlayalisticCadallacMusik

definite no

>Pocket Full of Stones

definite no

>Straight Out of Compton

yes

>6 in The Morning

no

criteria: would non-hiphop fans recognize it

take a jazz standard like "take 5" even if you don't know jazz you're likely to recognize that

same with a classical standard like "beethoven's fifth"

>criteria: would non-hiphop fans recognize it
>
>take a jazz standard like "take 5" even if you don't know jazz
>you're likely to recognize that
>
>same with a classical standard like "beethoven's fifth"
>


ahh...Okay

I see it now.

Yeah, if thats the case, you're right about many of those not fitting.

the message
TROY
mind playing tricks on me
juicy
california love
nothing but a g thang
boyz in the hood
quiet storm rmx
all about the benjamins
im bout it

that Qiet Storm remix?

I know people who havnt even heard the remix

>the message
>TROY

>mind playing tricks on me

maybe yes

>juicy

maybe yes

>california love

yes

>nothing but a g thang

yes

>boyz in the hood

nah (straight outta compton instead)

>quiet storm rmx

no

>all about the benjamins

no

>im bout it

no

Said the definitive List n shit. Haha

Damn....dope list

Nas - The World is Yours
Wu Tang - CREAM
Snoop - Gin n Juice
Coolio - Gangsta's Paradise
Tribe - Check the Rhime
Tribe - Can I Kick It?
Mobb Deep - Shook Ones Pt 2

that was THEE phrase for a summer

appearing on t-shirts and hats everywhere

if it turns up it nose at COVERS...?

standards are the songs that everyone in a GENRE covers....


the closest thing in hip hop would be the BREAKS...

impeach the prez
synthetic substitution
skull snaps

those are hip hops standards!

just in a "hip hop" way

their was a 90's album of hip hop covers. the name of it escapes me but the Roots were on it.

Snoop has covered the Vapors and Ladidodi

T.R.O.Y. has been covered by several hip hop artists

even tho artists dont actually cover whole songs on an album their are so many times an artist interpolates another hip hop song that its crazy see The message essentially interpolated in Ice Cubes "check yourself" remix. this doesnt even count all the recycled hooks and choruses

in addtion its pretty standard now adays for artists to cover other hip hop songs in live performances. the Roots have made a living off of this

>the closest thing in hip hop would be the BREAKS...
>
>impeach the prez
>synthetic substitution
>skull snaps
>
>those are hip hops standards!>

thats a diffrent catagory but I like the idea

http://www.theboombox.com/2010/07/08/rap-randb-cover-songs/

"Sucker M.C.'s" - Wu-Tang Clan (Original song by Run-DMC)
"Fuck tha Police" - Bone Thugs-N-Harmony (Original song by NWA)
"Big Ole Butt" - P Diddy (Original song by LL Cool J)
"6 in the Mornin'" - Master P (Original song by Ice-T)
"Freaky Tales" - Snoop Doggy Dogg (Original song by Too Short)
"Knick Knack Patty Wack" - Tha Dogg Pound (Original song by EPMD)
"Rapper's Delight" - Def Squad (Redman/Erick Sermon/Keith Murray) (Original song by Sugar Hill Gang)
"I'm Still #1" - Cypress Hill (Original song by Boogie Down Productions)
"I Need a Freak" - Too Short (Original song by Sexual Harassment)
"Dopeman" - Mack 10 (Original song by NWA)
"Money (Dollar Bill Y'all)" - Coolio (Original song by Jimmy Spicer)
"The Show" - The Roots (Original song by Doug E. Fresh/Slick Rick)

it was an album of covers

covers are the first step to becoming a standard

everybody does "get out my life woman" or "put your hand in a hand"

no hip hop song has ever been covered more than ONCe...

snoop didnt change anything...his la di da di sucked and again


**i remember 9th saying everyone gotta flip nautilus...

there aint no covers in hip hop... its antithetical IMO

**you listed a comp album??? isnt that just a novelty?? who puts the songs on their albums?

and does it count when other genres do it???? that dont make it a "hip hop" standard

I see your reasoning. Thats why I am saying we need to seperate the tradtional view of standards and put it in the context of hip hop takeing into consideration the diffrnces and nuances that hip hop culture has.

youre right hip hop covers arent as wide spread as in pop music but on the other hand interpolating other hip hop songs is widespread and readily accepted in hip hop.

I do understand your break beat premise but I think it applies as a whole nother catagory of influence unique to hip hop. I think the significance of break beats to the culture is a worthy and much needed discusion to have.

give or take 1 or 2.....

I remember I had that CD too...it came out I think like 98 or 99, cuz that Def Sqaud version of Rappers Delight actually got some decent radio and video play at the time..

snoop changed that

i think hiphop (like other genres) hates *BAD* covers

>the closest thing in hip hop would be the BREAKS...
>
>impeach the prez
>synthetic substitution
>skull snaps
>
>those are hip hops standards!

mainly the 80s records at this point

but songs like lose yourself and in the club are modern standards

Flava in your Ear
Rock the Bells

and i dont mean that as a dis.

again Im not just sayin standards as far as mainstram/crossover success which is essentially a hip hop karoake list

Im realy speaking on those songs that hip hop itself has embraced as a standard

songs like "bust a move" and "2 legit to quit" are staples of the mainstream culture and EVERYONE knows them but withinhip hop circles they arent nearly as highly acclaimed

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_American_Songbook

"The Great American Songbook is a hypothetical construct that seeks to represent the best American songs of the 20th century principally from Broadway theatre, musical theatre, and Hollywood musicals, from the 1920s to 1960, including dozens of songs of enduring popularity. The Great American Songbook became (and remains) a vital part of the repertoire of jazz musicians, who describe such songs simply as "jazz standards"."

if you cant see how this is markedly diffrent than a karoake list I dont know what to tell u

PLANET Rock
I know u got soul
Paid in full
Come Clean
Aint no nigga

Nas - The World is Yours
Wu Tang - CREAM
Snoop - Gin n Juice
Coolio - Gangsta's Paradise
Tribe - Check the Rhime
Tribe - Can I Kick It?
Mobb Deep - Shook Ones Pt 2

LL - I'm bad & My Radio
Run DMC - King of Rock
Beastie Boys - Fight for your right to party
De La - Buddy
Tribe - Bonita Applebum & Scenario
Eric B and Rakim - Paid in Full, I ain't no joke, don't sweat the technique and Microphone Fiend
Big Daddy Kane - Smooth Operator & Ain't No Half Steppin'
Pac - Dear Momma, Brenda's got a Baby, California Love & Keep ya head up
Dre - Nuttin' but a G thang
B.I.G - Juicy, One More Chance (remix), Big Poppa
50 - In Da Club
Em - Lose Yourself
MC Lyte - Cha, Cha, Cha
Queen Latifa - Ladie's First
Salt N Pepper - Push it
Lauren Hill - Lost Ones
DMX - Ruff Ryder's Anthem
Geto Boys - Mind playing tricks on me
2 Live Crew - Me so horny
Black Sheep - Choice is yours
Gangstarr - Manifest
Pete and CL - TROY
Biz - Just a Friend
Special Ed - I got it made
EPMD - Headbanger, You gots to chill, Jane, So Wat Cha Sayin'
Jay-z - Encore, PSA, Big Pimpin', Hard Knock life, Can I live
UGK - Pocket full of stones
Outkast - Rosa Parks, ATLiens, Players Ball

I'll stop there but there are many more

that song is so artfully done, though...from the beat to the rhymes. that's just a clean-ass song right there, and i don't see it dying. "i used to love h.e.r.", or at the very least segments of it, will always have contemporary meaning. and it sounds timeless.

great post.

>Isnt it about times that we have our own list of important
>songs?
>

So would the music be better if new jacks learned this stuff or would we ossify like some believe jazz has?

I'm of the opinion it would be useful if nothing else but to appreciate the history. I'm thinking of that idiotic swagger jacking debate about pause rap..b/t Sean/Drake and Luda.

that said I don't think it's essential. We have DJ's who carry that history to the stage more so it seems than rappers and certainly the culture is built around the new.

thoughts?

respect,
bc

standards not only help us to preserve the culture but in terms of foundational values reinforce our culture.

yes hip hop would be for the better if new artists learned the standards and where allowed to freely interpret them through their own eyes.

in any culture if you forget the past you have trouble in the future. I think to a strong degree that applies to hip hop too.

that being said I am not saying that hip hop cant grow or breathe and the music has to stay like it was in the 80's or 90's.

Finally you can best believe that if we dont establish our own standards within hip hop than those outside us will do it for us. Do you really want some educated German man who has never even been to the states much less Compton interpeting the social significance of "F the police?". This is the same thing as haveing a Caucasion teach African history. This isnt a slam against any race nor is it a racial issue but is more about preserving our own and being able to tell our own story. By we I mean those who embrace the hip hop culture.

biz markie - you got what i need
audio 2 - it takes 2
sugarhiLL - rappers deLight
LL cooL j - either radio / i need Love / or momma said knock u out
ice cube - it was a good day (remix version)
snoop dogg - gin and juice
vaniLLa ice - ice ice baby
mc hammer - you can't touch this
digitaL underground - humpty dance
house of pain - jump around
biggie/mase/diddy - mo money mo problems
bone thugs - 1st of the month
jay z/UGK - big pimpin
beastie boys - brass monkey or like 4 other songs from License to iLL couLd make it-
dr dre feat eminem - forgot about dre (aLthough XXXpLosive is reaLLy my choice here). i know everybody eLse going with the chronic, but when 2001 came out, it was that shit too. remember when you first heard xxxpLosive man?
lil wayne - a miLi
15 years from now drake will be on the list, and i'm putting his song 'best i ever had' on here
t-pain/jamie foxx - bLame it on the aLcohoL
RKeLLy - ignition (OG & remix)


too many. but the songbook has to have songs that crossed over on aLL LeveLs and kind of transcended the genre and marked a moment in time across aLL LeveLs and connected with pop cuLture from that given era... shit that when you were at the bar, or at the bar even now, that when that shit drops, it gives you that feeLing where u start reminiscing aLong with aLmost everybody eLse in the room. the songs above aLL did that and do that.

even shit like:

wiLL smith - summertime
cypress hiLL - insane in the brain
neLLy - it's gettin hot in here
LOL- that one usher/lil jon song that they aLways pLay in the movies

and fuck how did i forget about 2Pac - so many-- aLL eyes on me, dear mama, nothin but a gangsta party,

something from timbaLand has to go on the List - ginuwine Pony, missy eLLiot supadupa fLy, aaliyah 4 page Love Letter or 1 in a miLLion.

Every hip-hop fan from every generation should know that song word for word...

Every time I hear someone cover Dilla that is primarily involved in a non-hip hop genre, Fall in Love is their go to jam. By that standard, can it too be considered a standard?

Im not a hip hop head by any stretch of imagination. but my vote goes towards JUICY.
for some reason, whenever somebody utters " IT WAS ALL A DREAM "

EV-ER-Y-BODY stops and recites the rest of the song, if not just the first verse, with their eyes closed and their hand in the air, as if its the national anthem. I never really seen that any other rap song really.

Maybe ain't nuthin but a g thang

Mama Said Knock You Out - LL Cool J
I'm Bad - LL Cool J
Back Seat of My Jeep - LL Cool J
I Got It Made - Special Ed
'93 til Infinity - Souls Of Mischief
Dear Mama - 2Pac
Sally Got A One Track Mind - Diamond D
P.T.A. - Leaders of The New School
Woo Hah - Busta
Fuck The Police - NWA
Good Day - Ice Cube
The Choice Is Yours - Black Sheep
How I Could Just Kill A Man - Cypress Hill
Crossroads - Bone Thugs
Ether - Nas
In Da Club - 50 Cent
Get Low - Lil Jon
Move Bitch - Ludacris
Find Your Love - Drake (KIDDING!)
Hard Knock Life - Jay-Z
Cher Che La Ghost - Ghostface Killah

Wow, great thread. Some very interesting debate up in here. And I think all of the arguments presented have something compelling about them. What surprises me a little is that We've mostly thought of covers in terms of covering *lyrics*. But one of the first things that came to mind when I thought about covers was instrumentals. There are a number of instrumentals that have become so ubiquitous (because they thump; they're great for freestyling over, etc) that they regularly get turntable time, i.e. recycled for a mixtape, backing track for live in-studio freestyling session etc.

And I was thinking isn't this one of the ways to gauge the hip hop standard. It's not so much about the rhymes, but the beats. And that the beat/s can be reused for countless other emcees to catch wreck over.

Just a thought, I guess.

Of course, that's a much narrower definition of standards and it's quite a departure from standards in pop. But I do think it connects nicely with how standards are performed in jazz where sure the main theme/anchor melody would be recognisable but then the soloists may have free range to take the tune into a whole 'nother plane/sphere etc.

I think it could work; I'm just not sure it would be agreeable to all. It's kinda of riddims/versions in Jamaican music, no?

PEACE
G'