That's true but you can see their influence on mainstream hip hop. The greats that came after them will acknowledge them as influences in their careers. Y'all keep bringing up cats from the beginnings of hip hop when it was seen as a fad. The guys at the forefront today are more popular than the guys of the past because rap as a whole is more popular now. It's not a fair comparison. I seen a cat mention G Rap. G Rap is a legend because one of the greats, Nas, will tell you himself that G Rap influenced him. Madlib is dope. I dig a lot of his music but name me some people he has influenced? That's pretty much where the whole debate went once Phil came in.