For those that don't know, the Beyonce stipulation is that on every Destiny's Child and Beyonce release, she is credited as a co-producer on every song.

Matthew Knowles is credited as coming up with this rule, as a way to ensure her publishing money stayed long.

I'll be honest, I'm too lazy to look thru the credits for all her shit, but I believe there isn't a single song on any of her albums that didn't have her listed as a co-producer.

And she's worked with pretty much every major producing heavyweight (except for Dre, I believe) and they all went along with this.

I've heard it explained as that she is the vocal producer, etc. But I don't recall any other act having this rule.

Are there others?

i hear tell that he and his ppl demanded that he receive 50% of the publishing rights on any song he covered. which is part of why he didn't record Dolly Parton's 'I Will Always Love You'; she wouldn't give up half of her publishing rights.

that's not quite the same as the Yonce requirement.

i think Mariah Carey has one too. the Neptunes refused to play along on 'Say Somethin'. i heard them or someone from their camp mention it.

i've suspected Madonna has 1, but i've also heard/read producers say she gets involved in production of her music. so i dunno. but she's credited as a co-producer on just about everything she's released since the mid or late 80s.

end and then give himself Co-producer credit

If you look at all the early Bad Boy stuff as well as his solo stuff, whenever one of the bigger name dudes did something for him, or really most non-Hitmen producers, the credit only went to them.

Premier, RZA, Havoc, Just Blaze, Timbaland, Kanye, they all got their solo shit.

With Beyonce, literally everyone has to go along for the ride. All the big players.

Technically, he could credit himself as a co-writer and co-performer for dubbing "uh huh, yeah" on a song.

credits on most of her songs. For example, I just checked wiki on 4 (writing credits on all but 2 songs) and I Am... (writing credits on all but 1 song.) So she'd getting royalty/publishing checks AND points on the albums in addition to being the performer.

But honestly, I'm not sure why more stars don't do this...once you-ve established yourself to the point that your album is guaranteed to go platinum, you have the leverage to negotiate whatever you want in terms of credit. Jay-Z never gets listed as a co-producer (for individual songs), but that may be more of thing with the producer on a rap album being the person that specifically "made the beat", while on a singer's album there's more gray area in terms of vocal arrangements being part of production.

I mean we can talk about the creative run-ins with Morris, Jesse, Wendy & Lisa, Sandra St. Victor, but they're getting rehashed a million times @ this point.

Stevie Wonder too, coz Bob & Cecil weren't merely a bunch of "assistants".

Publishing is for songwriters/publishing companies.

These days, producers are far more likely to have a hand in writing the music to a song (ie Neptunes) than a producer in the classic sense like Bob Rock, Tommy LiPuma, or your favorite, Quincy Jones.

Producers get paid either through a upfront negotiated flat fee (which is most common these days) or they get production royalties (usually about 3% of the MSRP) or a combination of both depending on what the producer negotiates.

Song: Billie Jean
Songwriter: Michael Jackson
Publsher: Mijac Music adm. by Warner Tamerlane
Producer: Quincy Jones

Any money that Billie Jean earns through licensing (film, TV, etc) or airplay (radio) will be divided btwn MJ and Warner Tamerlane dependent upon the percentage split agreed upon by the two parties. Quincy would not get a cut of that money. If Quincy agreed to a producing royalty, then he will receive money from the actual sales of the song.

If you submit a song to Mrs. Carter and she chooses it for inclusion on her album, you have to agree to share writing and production credit with her, whether she does any work or not.

Case in point: "If I Were A Boy" was written by BC Jean (lyrics and melody) and Toby Gad (music). Toby Gad produced the song. The song had been completed. When Beyonce chose to record the song for her album, she did not alter the lyrics or music. Toby Gad agreed to share production credit with Beyonce. Gad and Jean shared songwriting credit with Beyonce.

Since Gad shopped the song without Jean's knowledge, Jean was unaware of the "Beyonce arrangement" and was upset that Beyonce would get writing credit for a song she did not write and made a stink about it. Of course, Beyonce's team hushed her with a cash settlement.

**********
Peace to the Gods.

he's 100% wrong though..

EVERY producer get's publishing...

songs are split into writing and composition... 50% & 50% ..so if you composed it you are getting publishing... how else do u think Kia Shine got 20% off Drake's Best i Ever Had? He made a beat that wayne rapped over.. when Drake used lyrics from that song he has to pay both composer and songwriter...

These days, producers are far more likely to have a hand in writing the music to a song (ie Neptunes) than a producer in the classic sense like Bob Rock, Tommy LiPuma, or your favorite, Quincy Jones.

^^

modern (read: Hip-Hop) producers are more likely to be involved in songwriting since they make 'beats'.

traditionally, producers weren't necessarily involved in the songwriting process.

but Quincy composed.. A good deal of the music as well... not just arranging the song...

Example... from Ascap ACE

Writers:
INGRAM JAMES E
JONES QUINCY D

Performers:
DANNY GOKEY
JACKSON M
MICHAEL JACKSON

Publishers/Administrators:
YELLOWBRICK ROAD MUSIC
C/O BMG RUBY SONGS
PETER RALEIGH

Email: royalties.us@bmg.com

a "writer" can be either a composer or lyric writer..

It is very rare that Quincy composed the music on the pop records he produced. He did, however, have a publishing company (Yellow Brick Road Music). James Ingram and The Brothers Johnson had the songs they wrote published by that company.

I assume the song you linked from ACE is Michael Jackson's PYT. Quincy Jones has writing credits on exactly TWO songs that he produced for Mike. PYT is one, the other is "Can't Get Outta The Rain" which was the non-album B-side to the Thriller singles.

Okay, here's the thing about that song. The song is credited to Michael Jackson and Quincy Jones as songwriters. However, all "Can't Get Outta The Rain" really is is the 2nd half of "You Can't Win" from The Wiz soundtrack, the song that Michael sang as The Scarecrow in the movie

Can't Get Outta The Rain:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbQixNjGo_k

Pic:
http://images.45cat.com/michael-jackson-cant-get-outta-the-rain-epic.jpg

You Can't Win (Full Version)- start at 3:06
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k1JU3zQRv8

You Can't Win was written by Charlie Smalls for The Wiz, so how Quincy and Mike pulled that jack move, I dunno...

The point is Quincy Jones helped write ONE of the songs he produced for Mike...and depending who in the industry you ask, James Ingram wrote PYT on his own and added Quincy as writer at Q's request as a way to pay dues for getting put on...

>but Quincy composed.. A good deal of the music as well... not
>just arranging the song...
>
>Example... from Ascap ACE
>
> Writers:
> INGRAM JAMES E
> JONES QUINCY D
>
>Performers:
>DANNY GOKEY
>JACKSON M
>MICHAEL JACKSON
>
>Publishers/Administrators:
> YELLOWBRICK ROAD MUSIC
> C/O BMG RUBY SONGS
> PETER RALEIGH
>
> Email: royalties.us@bmg.com

>a "writer" can be either a composer or lyric writer..

You're right abt this much. Most popular songs have a lyric and a singer delivering that lyric. The person who writes the music is called the composer. The person who writes the lyrics is called the lyricist.

For example:
Elton John's hits were written by Elton John and Bernie Taupin. The credits on Elton's albums make it clear who did what.

"Music by Elton John. Lyrics by Bernie Taupin"

Pic:
http://www.piano-pal.com/images/products/secondary/hl00110079-1.jpg

Elton John is the composer. Bernie Taupin is the lyricist. Both are songwriters and they would divide the songwriters share of publishing royalties 50/50...



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www.windimoto.com

Quincy Jones got added to songs he didn't write. Q was Arranger first and then a Producer.

however once he got his Yellow brick road publishing company he bought up stuff and also forced the deal to get credit, like how he muscles James Ingram to give up 50% of the fast version of PYT or not be included on thriller.

trip out thing about that song is the orignal was a slow jam composed by Michael Jackson and Greg Philiganis.

thing is credits also don't always tell the actual credit.

cats get a credit for flipping a word.

hip hop Producers who might sample make sure they get a credit because if said act they sample from takes the lions share of the cut then they ain't got much left but taxes and paying an attorney.

smart move by the hip hop producers and not to mention said Hip Hop Producer might charge up to 75 thousand for a beat.depends on there rate and how hot they are.

Yea in the end Publishing has always been a negotiable thing... There are cats like Ken Lewis who interpolate samples that get publishing and co-pro credit... There are people who helped finish the verse and they get publishing...

it all varies and unless we saw the split sheet in older sessions we dont know...

Traditionally people who are "work-for-hire" didnt get publishing... session players, background singers etc... even if they contributed a riff or 2..

i mean this is nothing new with an arranger or Producer getting a taste on the publishing side, however when sampling and looping became part of the music vocabulary well you get an act like a Puffy who suddenly has publishing and he is called a Producer.

you get a Jennifer lopez who gets a co credit on a song with 11 other people.

darkchild is the king of this business dude has like his family on tracks and they split it up 4-5 ways.

then you got the business arrangement meaning say that Jam and lewis Jam was the one who did the main work in the studio terry may or may not play on said session however they are business partners and they split everything 50/50.

or like LA and Babyface face did the bulk of the songs and La may or may not contribute,but they were eastablished as partners.

i remember when Mint condition first came out and there first album they wrote the bulk of the tracks however everything went through Jam and Lewis's Perspective Publishing house.

established name and act gets the mark on the loot.

but sampling and looping has allowed for even more writers then ever before.

Publishing is valuable and often people negotiate for songwriting/publishing credit even if they did not do any songwriting work...


*******
allwedoiswindimoto.tumblr.com
www.windimoto.com

Additionally.. Producers get publishing deals based on their portion of publishing... Would make no sense if they didnt get publishing...

Everytime my song gets played in a Commercial or TV show I get paid.. by publishing..

>Additionally.. Producers get publishing deals based on their
>portion of publishing... Would make no sense if they didnt get
>publishing...
>
>Everytime my song gets played in a Commercial or TV show I get
>paid.. by publishing.

You composed the music, which means you wrote the song. That makes you a songwriter. As a songwriter, you are due publishing royalties for the music you wrote. Thus you get paid when the song is used.


*******
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www.windimoto.com

>he's 100% wrong though..

I'm not.

>EVERY producer get's publishing...

No, they don't. You should know better. And you should know not to use apostrophes where they dont go, also.

>songs are split into writing and composition...

That's incorrect. Publishing royalties are split into two halves. The songwriter's share and the publisher's share. The songwriters get 50% and the publishers get 50% of publishing revenue. If the songwriter owns their own publishing then they would be entitled to both the songwriter and publisher share.

>50% & 50% ..so
>if you composed it you are getting publishing... how else do u
>think Kia Shine got 20% off Drake's Best i Ever Had? He made
>a beat that wayne rapped over.. when Drake used lyrics from
>that song he has to pay both composer and songwriter...

Because Kia Shine composed the music, he is the composer of the song, thus making him one of the songwriters. That's how he gets a cut of the publishing revenue. You got the term "songwriter" messed up and are using it incorrectly.

If the lyrics for Best I Ever Had get used in a book or film, all of the people who wrote the song get publishing royalties. Drake doesn't have to pay anybody. Publishing royalties come from the entities that pay to use the song.

Whoever taught you about publishing misinformed the shit out of you, bruh...I would check into that because they're probably fucking with your money...

because you have to prove your self with your own material after they do a test run on you.

some acts get an executive Production credit which is a cute label

however its branding yourself and once your name catches on then they

allow you to get in the credits.

once the name is established then you get in on the publishing as a songwriter.

i remember when Jennifer lopez had like 12 writers on one song, but she got a credit.

all major acts have lifted and pinch more than a few times, said side co writer or Producer gets back alley loot and gets other projects.

gotta sell the Star

Yes, Beyonce is getting a cut if she is listed as a co-author. There is life in that pubishing. Look at what gets covered on AMERICAN IDOL and THE VOICE. You may not have heard that song in years or decades, but the moment someone feels like reviving something? Boom. A production credit can be glorious and beneficial for your resume, but the life of a song, if you're lucky, is anywhere from 5 years to 20 to 50.

Case in point:
2012 is the 50th anniversary of The Beatles getting signed to Parlophone. In the fall, you may hear "Love Me Do" a lot.

2012 is the 30th anniversary of THRILLER. Most likely you will hear countless reality shows, talent shows, tributes, award ceremonies, animal abduction, and zombie analysis progranms using music from THRILLER. If MJ was alive, he would benefit tremendously, even if his career had tanked and he had decided to "retire". November 2012 would be a means to "wait for some nice checks to come in".

My point is, while Beyonce is doing everything she can legally to benefit from a songwriting credit, so does her label and publishers. It's the whole "spend money to make money" theory so as much as her publishers and labels are working her to cash in, she has to do what she has to do in order to maintain, along with keeping track that no one is ripping her off.

Now, could she also pull off what people like Prince, Ike Turner, and James Brown have done, by claiming songwriter credit under fake names? Who says she's not doing that already?

Bottom line: more people should be aware of this, but most aren't told. The way the industry is falling apart, and more artists go on the DIY route by getting their songs on everything from commercials to video games, film to greeting cards, artists have a better chance of maintaining their finances if they know what they're doing and have good people to show them support. I'm not saying this era is free from being ripped off, but you have a good chance of not being broke-ass and dead at 25 like Frankie Lymon.







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http://i32.tinypic.com/kbewp4.gif

i know going forward artists have to do everything possible to stay financially afloat, but purely from a musician/artist standpoint here, shouldn't this kinda behaviour be referred to as..i dunno, reprehensible?

and forgive my simple-mindedness, but if i wrote and recorded a song, and pop star wants to use said song but had no hand in writing or producing it and is in fact doing a glorified cover version of it but wants CREDIT, i would tell em to go fall off a cliff. even if u divorce money from the equation, ALL i would want is for the song to have its proper due credit (aka I WROTE THAT SHIT AND I WILL BEAT UR ASS IF U MUSCLE IN ON IT).

but ppl have been doing this for ages and cos it's yet another absolutely bankrupt standard industry practice it's all ok n shit. man fuck pop stars/starlets and fuck the dickheads who prop em up. fucking vacuous bunch of ppl, majority of em. anyone with any sense and self-respect would stay the fuck away from trying to make it within an inherently sick system. and anyone without a fucking SOUL would do anything to get ahead in it (i'd qualify Yonce as a non-soul-having mofo).

ok im done *rolls another J*

V.

and those sharks will tell you that if you want your song played then you gotta play ball or get no play whatcha gonna do?

its never a 100% as you are lead to believe. these labels make acts stay broke and told to do this or that and sometimes will just sit on there project.

so much paper work and on top of paper work.

thats why a cat like CLive Davis is right where he belongs and he is a Lawyer by the way a two for one and that business ain't nothing but a hustlers paradise.