I shamelessly ripped this off from another board.

Anyway, any genre-the term band can be interpreted loosely here.

I guess the vocalist is the easiest one but maybe you feel that way about a drummer, keyboardist or even bassplayer...

is all the math pop/math rock bands with the whine-y suburban pop-punk "emo" vocals that's too prevalent with UK bands (e.g., This Town Needs Guns, Colour). Same goes for the band Moving Mountains, which has that semi post-rock sound but the vocals are equally lame.

They're not doing anything in particular that would make them amazing, with out without the vocalists, however, but they make pretty good instrumental music and would do better with someone who doesn't like a 16-year-old (or manchild) who went through their first break up.

Ruined by Buddy Miles.

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"When the music stops he falls back into this abyss."

I always feel that the drumming on the album changed the way Jimi played too though (the bass of course was part of this too), Jimi's rhythm on the album is a bit different from usual IMO and it offers a different side of his playing so I give Miles a pass for that reason even if the drumming is dull as fuck and really plodding...

On the topic of drumming, there are several avantgarde jazz albums where the drumming fuck them up a little-I'm not a fan of Beaver Harris who played on a bunch of records with Archie Shepp, marion Brown and Roswell Rudd. However, that's not really bands. An example of something that *is* a band though would be Alice Coltrane's piano-playing in the end of John Coltrane's band and I find that her pedalled arpeggios give the music a "spiritual", almost saccharine feeling which doesn't match the vERY sharp and jagged music the rest of the band is playing.

I also never felt that Clapton's guitarplaying fit Cream which may seem strange but it is evident on their endless live-jams where the rhythm-section is really pushing shit while Clapton is just playing blues-cliches that works in the context of short solos but become tedious in long jams since he doesn't vary his rhythm and the timbral aspects nearly enough to sustain interest. I don't know how highly lauded that aspect of the band is nowadays though; I think it's more recognized as influential than truly great...

>I always feel that the drumming on the album changed the way
>Jimi played too though (the bass of course was part of this
>too), Jimi's rhythm on the album is a bit different from usual



like... he was trying to stay "in the pocket."

but hendrix was so out there
that his conceptualization of "normal" was so far out there
that it sounded nowhere near "normal."


and i don't mind those records...
but it don't sound right.

i liked it better when the drummer had more of a jazz feel.
it suited him better, i think.

I think even Mitch Mitchell would disagree with that Buddy brought a lot to that project ..not only his powerful drumming style by the vocals...

I thought it worked perfect...

Band of Gypsys and Live at the Fillmore East are my favorite Hendrix albums. Even as a kid, I felt like that era was the most himself Jimi ever was. Axis and (particularly) Are You Experienced always felt like compromises between what Jimi wanted to be (and was) and what Chas/ the industry were trying to make him.

And Changes is an amazing song. There's a Santana/ Buddy version from a few years later that's equally amazing.

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"When the music stops he falls back into this abyss."

You think it's a coincidence that as Jimi gained more control over his career his sound came back to his Rhythm and Blues influences? That's what I hear in the Band of Gypsys albums, and even the Woodstock performance.

>You think it's a coincidence that as Jimi gained more control
>over his career his sound came back to his Rhythm and Blues
>influences? That's what I hear in the Band of Gypsys albums,
>and even the Woodstock performance.

He's a blues player first and foremost not an R&B player. Going back to his roots is going back to the blues. His R&B days is where he got his rhythm chops from but he preferred applying that to an edgier sound which played with rhythm the way he played with solos. That was where he wass the most himself, and what Mitch helped him get to the best. Buddy pulled it back to the chitlin circuit days where Jimi was a background player hoping to get a line in. Sure it was his band this time so he could get more than a line in, but it was obviously not going forward for him which is why he fell back to his bread and butter.


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"When the music stops he falls back into this abyss."

That shit was substandard... great idea in theory, but fairly mediocre in execution.

But let some people tell it, it's Jimi's best album, the one in which he was "being real to himself" and representative of the direction he would and should have followed had he lived.

And you know what that agenda is, don't you?









*rubs back of hand

>And you know what that agenda is, don't you?

Anti-British imperialism?

>
>>And you know what that agenda is, don't you?
>
>Anti-British imperialism?

>I think even Mitch Mitchell would disagree

Mitch is humble so maybe.

>Buddy
>brought a lot to that project ..not only his powerful drumming
>style by the vocals...

His drumming is so laboriously heavy handedly, "look at me I'm playing the *drums* and if you haven't noticed me yet let me start singing!!"

He wanted so bad to be at Hendrix level but he wasn't, at all. Hendrix doesn't need a second lead, and the domnating plodding drums make him fall back to give his friend some shine.

Then he called Mitch back.

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"When the music stops he falls back into this abyss."

I'm not going to defend Buddy's drumming, but I will defend the Band of Gypsys era. Jimi didn't need a 2nd lead, but he always had one, and I'll take Buddy over Noel any day.

Not a big deal IMO even if they suck. However, I like the guitarplaying on ''She's so fine''-there's some cool stuff there.

Anyway, I don't find him as intrusive as Buddy's showman/audience interaction tendencies but to each his own...

I have and enjoy some of the Buddy solo stuff. He's not a great drummer and relinquishes that role on many of his albums, there was just nowhere to hide in the live setting of BoG. He's not an equal to Jimi by any means, but BoG seemed like a deliberate stylistic shift for Jimi, and I enjoyed the direction he went.

and the drumming with BOG was pretty sluggish. i do like how they reworked the old JHE songs though, on the bootlegs. maybe if they worked together more, they could have become something more interesting - ive not got a problem with what buddy miles did on rainy day dream away and still raining still dreaming. but a good half of the BOG album is pretty boring. and buddy has quite a bit to do with that.

>I shamelessly ripped this off from another board.

I was about to say. Do you post at Metal Archives, Jakob?

...I have been home sick so I was getting bored and I saw that forum and a thread about the origin of the term thrash where I felt I could add something. Then I saw this subject and was thinking "maybe that could be interesting in the lesson"...

That dude just fucked it up for me on every song
Instead of spiritualizinf every song, why don't p go back an erase all of that dudes raps and replace it with a solo?

And no Lol's...I'm serious!!!

although to be honest...
i can't even think of 23 positions.

can you?


and even if i could...
i seriously doubt i'd wanna do them over the course of a single
one night stand.

b/c i have work tomorrow... lol





and btw... why does rosie need to step in a clarify
that we should "let a woman be a woman, let a man be a man."

b/c when i'm doing the nasty,
there's no confusion about who is who.




then again, that's why prince is awsome.
he conceptualizes sex in ways
that i haven't even imagined yet.



but yeah...
generally, i agree.
he sucks.

man, you just made me remember how much I hated/clowned that era of Prince... he should have left rap music alone, except for those pseudo-raps (ala "Irresistible Bitch")

>except for those pseudo-raps (ala "Irresistible Bitch")


not all of them.
but prince "rapping" on top of those james brown "funk" songs...
yeah.

we didn't need that either.
(although it's not particularly embarrassing. especially
not when compared to stuff like "jughead.")

>not all of them.
>but prince "rapping" on top of those james brown "funk"
>songs...
>yeah.
>
>we didn't need that either.
>(although it's not particularly embarrassing. especially
>not when compared to stuff like "jughead.")

there were some songs that fooled me into thinking that Prince might be good at "rapping"... boy, was I wrong. LOL. He was looking really "grew up in Minneapolis in the 1960s and 70s" by then, LOL

He was
>looking really "grew up in Minneapolis in the 1960s and 70s"
>by then, LOL

That song (and Daddy Pop) partially ''ruin'' a record what would at least have been OK-I think there were like 1-2 more stinkers but I haven't played it in years. I didn't even hear much of his other 90's records except ''Come'' which I bought because they had it in a cut-out bin for like $3 within a year of it's release... I sort of like that one though.

When that nigga said y'all don't me on the mic
Uhhhh u got that right
Take your micro gun and sit yo ass down

I admit his skills improved but he would still lose to dude coming to fix your cable

>When that nigga said y'all don't me on the mic
>Uhhhh u got that right
>Take your micro gun and sit yo ass down
>
>I admit his skills improved but he would still lose to dude
>coming to fix your cable
>

Since 1976

Avatar: Blue Ivy Carter

>I admit his skills improved but he would still lose to dude
>coming to fix your cable

An almost unknown Japanese band I generally really like, Kusu Kusu, has a singer who's just bad. It's noticeable on the records but generally doesn't kill them. I do have a VHS of them at Budokan, and the story is differennt there... guy annoys the hell out of me from get-go. In & of itself it is really weird to me that they could have filled the place, considering, when I lived there less than 4 years after that had been filmed I never met a single person who had heard of them.

Anyhow, yeah, that singer is terrible; it's no surprise noone's bothered to rip any videos from it to put on youtube. There is however one of their tracks which shows some of his annoyingness here, for a song that was in an anime or something: http://www.animelyrics.com/anime/ranma/chikyuuorchestra.htm



And my brother has always stated that Kenny Jones was the worst drummer in rock, and his playing was a significant drawback to his playing with the Faces.

Guns and Roses post Slash. Van Halen Post David Lee Roth and Sammy haggar. New Edition Post Bobby Brown and though I like Johnny Gill it felt that like Uncle that sings Bass singing with the Kids at a saturday afternoon cookout. it did feel odd to me for a minute.

for me its usually the singer, because the band unless there is a distinctive musician and then you start to notice the music being affected in a certain way.


Great topic and i'll come back to more.

nightshift was and is the jam. forever.

best rock 'n roll heaven song there is.
tied w/ "missing you" and "my dear mr. gaye."

not great, but good.

and that's because Thomas McClary (the second most important member of the Commodores) was still there. When he left, then they took a slow roll downward. When Ronald LaPread left... then it was done.

it's kind of funny that Thomas and Ronald are the 2 Commodores most commonly seen with Lionel nowadays.

his silly rapping gimmick is ok I guess, but his singing is STILL terrible.

He is definitely the weakest link, and they could be something (arguably) better with a more capable vocalist, but their success and identity is unquestionably reliant on Kiedis.

http://theyesyesyalls.com
http://facebook.com/theyesyesyalls
http://reverbnation.com/theyesyesyalls
http://twitter.com/shamelessplug

...isn't that a band where people only like the records with John frusciante playing and writing? In that case, I guess you could argue that whoever is playing instead of him ruin the band. I've heard their pre-Frusciante records and that's some bullshit 80's funk-rock but maybe some die-hards prefer those...

if not for Kiedis? i would say they're already amazing.

after hearing one in particular (shadows collide with people) I always wondered why they did't kick anthony out of the band and let john sing full time.

there was no beatles before the fab-4, but that's me

http://youtu.be/OwzY0XYVyTk

and you can clearly hear how Pete Best was holding the band back.

before they smartened up and got the hint and put Chaka in front for the majority of their songs. Stocker was some bullshit.

IMO, I think that their Chaka-less albums, are, much like the Commodores, good, sometimes great, but not "elite class" like they were w/her.

it's just w/her... that band takes on a whole different character.

I haven't listened enough yet to really have a strong opinion but it was sort-of bland... There are many cases where a band on their early records haven't figured out their sound yet and don't really see their strengths. The thing is that it is sometimes the leader that is holding them back, I 'think' that was the case with Rufus and in a completely different genre, you have Deep Purple who on their early records were led by organist Jon Lord and sounded like a bootleg Vanilla Fudge and it's like ''You have Ritchie Blackmore in the band and your'e barely allowing him to write riffs or play much''.

>you have Deep Purple who on their early records were led by
>organist Jon Lord and sounded like a bootleg Vanilla Fudge and
>it's like ''You have Ritchie Blackmore in the band and your'e
>barely allowing him to write riffs or play much''.

I think it was very much a similar situation. There's another band like this that comes to mind, but I can't recall it right off the bat... it boiled down to one (or two very talented) band member(s) not given much of any input...

once that happened, the whole feel of the band changed.

I almost kind of feel much of Steely Dan records where Donald Fagen isn't singing... a "singer" like him would usually ruin the records they're on, but none of those songs have that snarky feeling they're supposed to if he doesn't (and Walter Becker should never be allowed near a microphone unless it's recording his guitar, LOL)

I always thought Billy Cox sounded so much better playing with Jimi...particularly live during Jimi's solos.... Noel would just start meandering around making noise during those solos while Billy always stayed strong in the pocket but would add some twists to the bassline... It's like Noel stopped playing the bassline while Jimi was soloing live, and Billy kept it going strong....it made the music more powerful and full sounding...

I still think they sounded amazing but Noel didn't really add anything, shit, he wasn't even a bassplayer really...

>Noel
>would just start meandering around making noise during those
>solos while Billy always stayed strong in the pocket


band of gypsies ain't have no pocket. jimi can't conceptualize
"normal" playing because he lived w/ the gods.

billy's drumming and hendrix's playing ain't go together.
Hendrix couldn't ground himself if he tried (and god bless him for it.)

naw, bro.
the experience beats band of gypsies in a landslide.



shoutout to "machine gun", though.

Buddy was the drummer... I think Billy was very good but it is perfectly possible that his bassplaying ''locked'' Jimi. However, the last year of live-recordings with Billy and Mitch are cool even if I personally think Jimi sounded best live in 68-69. However, there's some VERY good shows in the end (some dull ones too)...

EDIT:Buddy only played shows with Jimi on Ne4w Years eve 69/70 (=the band of gypsys albums) and a disastrous show after that where conspiracy theorists have implied that Jimi's manager gave him bad LSD so he would go back with the white guys after the show was a failure. Anyway, he kept Billy but got Mitch back...

Jimi Hendrix
Billy Cox
Mitch Mitchell
Larry Young

OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG

I just discovered the Hendrix & Young bootleg.

OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG

Would have been the baddest band of all time ever forever.

It would have cool to have Jimi playing with an organist-especially one that is that fucking great; he was pretty much the Hendrix (or Coltrane works better) to the Hammond anyway. Still slept on...

There is a whole bootleg of them playing together. Ten tracks, well over an hour.
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"When the music stops he falls back into this abyss."

.

Redding was gone pretty much right after Electric Ladyland, Cox played bass at Woodstock, though I think that may be his first show w/ Jimi. And Redding's songs ruin whatever side they're on of whatever Jimi album yr listening to at the moment.

Maybe there are two types of people in this world, those who hate Noel and those who hate Buddy.

>Buddy was the drummer... I think Billy was very good but it
>is perfectly possible that his bassplaying ''locked'' Jimi.
>However, the last year of live-recordings with Billy and Mitch
>are cool even if I personally think Jimi sounded best live in
>68-69. However, there's some VERY good shows in the end (some
>dull ones too)...
>
>EDIT:Buddy only played shows with Jimi on Ne4w Years eve 69/70
>(=the band of gypsys albums) and a disastrous show after that
>where conspiracy theorists have implied that Jimi's manager
>gave him bad LSD so he would go back with the white guys after
>the show was a failure. Anyway, he kept Billy but got Mitch
>back...

i love songs like message to love and machine gun but even if noel wasnt anything special as a bassist, he did the job, he did it well enough. i never listened to the first 3 experience albums where he was on bass and thought he was letting the side down. if he wasnt jaco pastorius lol then maybe thats a good thing - he provided something basic that let hendrix go off in other directions. which is kinda the role of the bassist in rock. its like the ringo starr argument - yeah he wasnt ginger baker, but what he did was just right for the beatles.

this is a can of worms but my personal take is that hendrix was not really cut out for the funk era, and when he tried to respond to some of the newer developments happening in black music at the time, it didnt really work that succesfully for him. i think his music is def funky at times, and it def grooves, but its in a rock n roll/blues way, rather than a funk/soul way. which is prob why those songs cut before his death werent quite as good as what he did before.

between mitchell and hendrix going all nuts.

I think it's pretty well known the band was better than the front man.
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"When the music stops he falls back into this abyss."

I enjoy the music, but I can't handle that nails on chalkboard voice and the Tolkien obsession. I'd rather listen to Rod Stewart sing about banging groupies, and so Faces fill my british blues influenced rock hole that we all need filled.

though I don't think I'd go as far as saying he 'ruined' Led Zep cause I still love that band. But yah....Robert Plant only takes away from their greatness.

And Rod Stewart could definitely sing Plant under the table

plus he's a fucking ginger

I never hated him as much as many others do and I think on some songs his voice worked because of it's ''mean'' vibe (''peace sells'' is a good example). However, he can sound REALLY whiney at times and yes, his voice definitely took away from my enjoyment of the band.

On that topic, I don't think Joey Belladonna worked for Anthrax on ''Among the living'' and onwards. He's trying to hold on to some melody but at the same time, many of the riffs don't accomodate normal vocal melody so he's sort of half-singing during long stretches; it must have been frustrating for him because he obviously had a strong traditional metal voice and a gift for singing melodic stuff but I don't think he managed to find a fitting voice for their somewhat more extreme direction. Still, it's their most popular album so I guess I'm in a minority...

Oh yeah, Vio-Lence (duh!). That dude should never have been near a microphone, WTF? I don't even know what he was trying to do on the ''Eternal Nightmare''-album. It worked better on their second album but there, the music is much weaker...

and mustaine hmm

I listened again to Polaris and Holy Wars last night and yes sometimes the grating of his voice fits great with the right riffs

but yeah the nasal is just overbearing other times

i kinda wish all metal singers sounded like the guy from High On Fire

... well, he ruins any possibility of *me* liking them or even checking them out...

but i completely understand this.
that dude can be obnoxious as hell.

shit... he get's on my nerves sometimes,
and i'm kind of a fan.


one time i saw a photoshop of the U2 album "how to dismantle an atomic bomb."
they changed it to say "how to get your friends to leave the room."


my eye was immediately drawn to bono on the cover...
looking smug. lol

so yeah... i feel you.

>... well, he ruins any possibility of *me* liking them or
>even checking them out...

but i dunno... he just rubs me the wrong way... and trust me, i work in and around the industry, so i know self-promotion is part of it all... but the *way* he self-promotes... i dunno, i just don't like the persona he came up with.. i don't know the guy, so i can't judge him as an actual person (i'm sure he does a lot of good and doesn't want the spotlight on everything).. but sometimes it comes off like he's promoting causes for personal gain.. at the end of the day, anyone who's better off as a result is a net win and i can't be mad at that at all... but yea, he annoys me enough to not want to listen to his material... even though i'm fairly positive that a lot of it is great lol.. oh well

I'd go with the aforementioned Tony M...

Sammy Hagar (Van Halen) who was the wrong type of T-shirt cheese....

The lead singer from TV On the Radio (he's the reason why I could never get TOTALLY into them)...

I'm sure I have more...

and i know they're not very well regarded, but i always liked Stone Temple Pilots...sans the lyrics. i just could *not* understand what the hell Scott was talking about 80% of the time.

i know most people in the know would claim them as ripping off others' style, but i always liked their straight-ahead style.

i find him boring.

also, i just liked them before they sounded more 'live'.

but i know im alone in this lol.

I'm with you. I don't know that I place the blame at the drummer, but each of their albums has gotten more boring and unambitious. I was so disappointed seeing them live on the Cookie Mtn. tour; a band that seemed so adventurous in studio played everything so safe live. At the time, I couldn't believe it, but given how many Macs I see propped open on stage these days, I guess I can appreciate them at least playing the songs live, which is better than most bands with that much sound do. 5-10 years ago the were one of my favorites and a band that I hoped would matter, and last summer I left Pitchfork before they played so I could beat traffic.

i still check for them, but im not obsessed with them like i was before cookie came out. theyve tried to sound more and more conventional as theyve gone on i think. maybe that last album had some gems, idk, but the coldplay-ish stuff on dear science put me off (the family name song was one of the best on there which made it worse lol)

she makes the white stripes what they are... it's more than the music yo..

if it was slow, she def held them back as she was so plodding

if it was black math or 7 nation army, she was exactly what the drummer needed to be

damn he ruins it for me.

nm

nm

Guns N Roses

Jim Morrison, Robert Plant, Anthony Keidis, Meg White, trying to say BOG Hendrix was "more him"/better than The Experience... FOH

i new i shouldn't have clicked this shit