Premo >>>> Dilla ....Sorry

First off, Dilla is legendary and his death make him bigger on the internet and quote on quote hip hop heads but to me, if you take PREMO best 25 beats vs Dilla best 25 Beats...Premo wins to me. I love Dilla beats but the beats Premo did for Nas, Jay-Z, Jeru, Group Home, MOP, and Biggie (I'm not even talking about Gangstarr) to me place him above Dilla. Yes, Dilla might have edged Premo in "technical skills" but ........I ENJOY PREMO BEATS BETTER SO HE IS BETTER TO ME...dont get me wrong, The Tribe and Pharcyde joints were crazy but if you listed (the song choices would be different) the 25 best beats from each, Premo would win to me. Now, if you are talking about riding around with instrumentals, Dilla might in in that department.

Just my thoughts...

1. Who is better to you?
2. Best 25 Beats...who wins?
3. Who has the best fully produced LP?

Me:

1.Premo
2. Premo
3. Premo: Moment of Truth or Daily Operation is better to me than any fully produced Dilla LP (Jeru and Group Home debut possible also)

Again...just my thoughts..

But on here there is some Dilla Stanery going on pretty consistently..lol..I love Dilla and he is in my Top 5 but when I hear people say he is much better than Premo I just shake my head...

for everyone's opinoin on Dilla's best 15 beats.

**pulls up chair and waits for lists**

Here are my Top 15-25 by Premo WITHOUT any Gangstarr songs b/c to use Gangstarr songs along with the ones below pretty much shit on every other producer ever...yes Dilla also (who is beyond Dope)This is just too much FIRE


1. Kick in the Door=Biggie
2.Unbelievable=Biggie
3. New York State of Mind=Nas
4. I Gave You Power=Nas
5. Represent=Nas
6. Come Clean=Jeru (I mean, I could pick 5 from this LP)
7. Memory Lane=Nas
8. D'Evils=Jay-Z
9. Shit Iz Real=Fat Joe
10. Success (remix) Fat Joe
11. Suspended in Time=Group Home
12. Livin Proof=Group Home (Again, I could pick 5 from this LP)
13. No Diggedy-Das Efx
14. Real Hip Hop-Das Efx
15. Rappaz R. N. Dainja -KRS
16. Rappers Act Like They Don't Know=KRS
17. Waiting for the World to End=Rakim
18. 3 Tha Hard Way=Bahamadia
19. True Honey Buns=Bahamadia
20. Friend or Foe=Jay-Z
21. Bring It On=Jay-z
22. Intro / A Million and One Questions / Rhyme No More-Jay-Z
23. My World=OC
24. Ten Crack Commandments=Biggie
25. The 6th Sense=Common

** I mean really.. I didnt name any Gangstarr, the rest of MOP, Jeru, CNN, Jay-z other songs like "So Ghetto"....its just too much...

I wouldn't even know where to start.

I know Nas Is Like would be on there though...

I'll wait for the song lists to roll around before posting up mine.

I'm waiting for someone to post what they think is his Top 25 Beats and compare them to the 25 I named. Again, I didnt even name ANY Gangstarr songs. And no, Fan Vol. 2 is not better than Moment of Truth or Daily Operation...hell out of here..lol

>
>1. Who is better to you?
J Dilla
>2. Best 25 Beats...who wins?
This is a tough question but imo I'm still picking J dilla
>3. Who has the best fully produced LP?
Dilla- fantastic Vol2

This just my thoughts. A huge reason I picked Dilla is because his style was always changing and evolving. Primo stayed mad stagnet and as much as I hate to say it, he just doesnt drop that much heat anymore.

Dila has all these different phases throughout his career.
Jay dee-all the early sv and Tribe Stuff
J Dilla(pre stones throw)- Fuck the police/
J-dilla(during stones throw- he was getting super experimental towards the end of his career. Not only was it wierd as hell but it was all still fresh!! Ex- nothing like this

Dont get me wrong I love Primo but I feel liked he peeked already. Even if you look at that list above, almost all of those songs were made in the 90's.
And James Yancey is basically responsible for a whole style being created--Neo Soul.
(im not a fan of the term but he's basically the GodFather of that sound imo.

Sorry if this not written out so well. I'm hiding in a cubicle typing on my iphone....

I guess I am then.

Also...Daily Operation is better than Fan Vol. 2 to me as far as production. Maybe Moment of Truth and Sun Rises in the East.

to me...

http://www.disclose.tv/files/videos/thumbnails/2704e83e27dd291_1.jpg

.

.

I completely agree with this. . Top RZA 25 beats ANYBODY

You can't really go wrong with the 3 of them.

it ends up coming down to preference.

I got a boy who loves RZA

a boy who loves Primo

and I'm the Pete fan

so I mean, you can't be mad at any of them.

top 3 in my opinion for sure

Dilla is right behind them

I like J. Dilla. Love him, even. But I can no longer say he is better than DJ Premier. In fact I can't say anyone is. But they are both great for us and have done a lot with the machines and stuff. If you don't know this, I hate you.

>I like J. Dilla. Love him, even. But I can no longer say he
>is better than DJ Premier. In fact I can't say anyone is. But
>they are both great for us and have done a lot with the
>machines and stuff. If you don't know this, I hate you.



man youre doofy headed.

fully produced Dilla LP

And it's not better than the DJ's best things. It is really good, though. I play it about 4 times a week. Very sexy album to me.

Donuts is pretty good. Not Classic. Dilla might technically be better than most but Premo is the best beat maker to me. I know people think Dilla is Stevie Wonder on here (I love Dilla) but come on....

I'm waiting for his Top 25 beats to be shared..

Just as I'm sure your Top 25 Preme joints are subject to change at any moment (mine sure is), Dilla's "list" would be the same way. They were both too prolific to have their catalogs whittled down to some "best of" ranking.

I might come back in here later and post my 12/17/11 "Top 25 Jay Dee Beats of All Time" list...but I feel like you'd just run it down one-by-one with weird comparisons to Daily Operation beats, "That one was DOPE, but not as dope as __________," etc.

I personally think we've done enough Dilla vs whoever posts, but I'll keep an eye on this one.

If you have seen any of my post I dont argue or run down people opinions. I would just say "I agree" or "Disagree"...that is all I would do. I'm curious to see his top 25 beats by a fan. But no playa...I will not bash your opinion..Im really on here just messing around with some good ole hip hop talk...

I wasn't implying that you'd get hostile or anything. I just think that there's a HUGE portion of Premier's catalog that would be hard to place side-by-side with a lot of Dilla's work.

In any case, I'll post a Top 25 Dilla list later on this afternoon. Never attempted that before.

No doubt. Much respect.

http://cdn.nahright.com/news/m.php/2008/08/dj-premier-j-dilla-t-shirt.jpg

I'd attempt...but no way I know his catelog like some of ya'll.

(1)J-Dilla had three different beat styles ((1)his smooth, loud snare/handclap, dope bassnote vibe, (2)his beat/gen beats, & (3)his beat konducta/donuts style of beats); sorry to say but Premier has had two different styles and he's been doing his second style of beat making over & over for almost 20 years now (yeah I love it but it gets kind of stale if the beat isn't up to par especially when he got soooo many dope beats from the past that's hard to out do).

(2)The way he would flip a sample even if it was recognizable, he would still make it sound different than another producer would flip it; Premier is good at this as well but Premier chops up his samples and use them sparsely but J-Dilla would use more than 3 to 8 seconds of a sample and still flip it nicely.

(3)He rapped and flowed well especially over his own joints, even his grunts and adlibs make a beat sound dope; yeah Premier doesn't rap but I will say this, Premier will always have that upper hand when it comes to scratch montages/chorus.

I can respect your perspective my G.

>(1)J-Dilla had three different beat styles ((1)his smooth,
>loud snare/handclap, dope bassnote vibe, (2)his beat/gen
>beats, & (3)his beat konducta/donuts style of beats); sorry to
>say but Premier has had two different styles and he's been
>doing his second style of beat making over & over for almost
>20 years now (yeah I love it but it gets kind of stale if the
>beat isn't up to par especially when he got soooo many dope
>beats from the past that's hard to out do).
>

you could say the exact same thing about what Dilla was doing
at different points I found his beats boring to a great degree, case in point the 2oo5 beat tapes that preceded Donuts
they all have the same drums, same chopping, same everything
I don't hold it against him at all, and it doesn't diminish him in my eyes because he was working out a style and you can hear it
but what you're talking is stylistic preference, and that's definitely cool and I'm not saying you're not entitled to your opinion
but the 'style switch' thing doesn't really make someone better than another that doesn't do it
Duke Ellington did big band shit for 5o yrs, but when Miles was doing fusion nobody was saying "Duke needs to get with this shit here"
and being honest, Primo has 4 different style switches; the more rigid NMNNG sound, the DO/SITA style, the HTE/more natural bounce shit he was doing up until 96 or so (the drums on the Crooklyn Dodgers shit is the apex of that sound to me) and the 'I'll chop anything and you'll never get the source unless I tell you' shit he's been on for about 15 yrs
they're all dope to me so iont have the issue you do, but both Dilla and Primo have punched below their weight class beatwise a time or two


>(2)The way he would flip a sample even if it was recognizable,
>he would still make it sound different than another producer
>would flip it; Premier is good at this as well but Premier
>chops up his samples and use them sparsely but J-Dilla would
>use more than 3 to 8 seconds of a sample and still flip it
>nicely.
>

all top-shelf producers do this, you might need to explain this one more
when you hear a Primo flip, you know its him
when you hear that Dilla shit, you know it's him


>(3)He rapped and flowed well especially over his own joints,
>even his grunts and adlibs make a beat sound dope; yeah
>Premier doesn't rap but I will say this, Premier will always
>have that upper hand when it comes to scratch
>montages/chorus.

I'll always love the way he made himself an instrument on his shit, and the reason for it is because he wasn't on some "yeah I'm the shit for even trying this" type shit, he did it because it felt good which is something I'd hope more producers would take in mind
he knew not to get in the way of the music, a lot of his followers would do well to follow that logic

You say this like it's really a stratch

This Are my favorite 25 beats by James Yancey. These are not in any kind of order and list was done super quick..

1.sv-fall in love
2.J Dilla- won't do
3.royce da 5'9-lets grow
4. Pharcyde-drop
5. Pharcyde-she sAid
6. Pharcyde- splatitourium
7.common-nag chamba
8.atcq-wordplay
9.atcq-find a way
10.qtip-lets ride
11.qtip- breathe and stop
12.sv-players
13.janet jackson-got till it's gone remix
14.J88-look of love
15.jaylib-mcnasty filth
16.de la soul-stakes is high
17-common-the light
18. Erykah badu-didn't cha know
19.d'angelo-me and those dreamy eyes remix
20.de la soul-much more
21.doom-gazillion ear
22.sv-i don't know
23.sv-2u4u
24.mos def-history
25.the roots- dynamite

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=2596564&mesg_id=2596564&listing_type=search#2596724

You are completely entitled to your opinion, though, and I actually think a better debate rests between Pete Rock and Dilla as Premier is third to me behind them.

I'm starting to really think Pete Rock is the GOAT though...

1. Runnin – The Pharcyde
2. The Red – Jaylib
3. Airworks – J Dilla
4. Genesis - Busta
5. Fall in Love – Slum Village
6. Won’t Do – J Dilla
7. So Far To Go - J Dilla ft. Common and D’Angelo
8. Get A Hold – ATCQ
9. Nothing Like This – J Dilla
10. Forth and Back – Slum Village
11. Stakes Is High – De La Soul
12. Sometimes (Remix) – Brand New Heavies
13. As Serious As Your Life (Remix) – Four Tet
14. Got Til Its Gone – Janet
15. Can’t Stop This – The Roots
16. Find A Way – ATCQ
17. Didn’t Cha Know – Erykah
18. Aquarius - Common
19. The Light – Common
20. Climax – Slum Village
21. Nag Champa – Common
22. Common – Love Is
23. I Don’t Know – Slum Village
24. Show Me What You Got – Busta
25. Get Dis Money – Slum Village

I find it ironic that you would say no Dilla produced LP can stand up to Premo, because IMO, Like Water for Chocolate has my favorite production for a hip-hop album

It's also ironic that, IMO, there are only 2 perfect hip-hop beats
Mass Appeal
Runnin

I think the comparison is limited because Premo stayed in 1 lane

Personally, I give the nod to Dilla because where production in hip-hop is now

I mean, a dude like Kanye made a career off of Dilla's Donuts technique

and then Dilla gets to Won't Do and Nothin Like This toward the end and cats are just starting to catch up to that now

easily my 2 favorite producers

but I stopped checking for Premo jawns a long time ago

I'm still collecting Dilla Jawns

it might be hard to measure, track for track, or however you want to do it

but if you just run through this list, and note the different types of vibes, sounds, techniques, etc...that Dilla perfected

whereas a list of 25 premo beats will have the same technique
freak 2 samples over a premo bounce

I don't think it's close

and for the record, hard to earn was premo's best, IMO

>I mean, a dude like Kanye made a career off of Dilla's Donuts
>technique

shit, didn't blueprint come out like 5 years before donuts?

I think Donuts was Dilla showing cats how it's done

it was a dying man's beat last beat tape.

It's great, yes, but it isn't an earth shattering change in production technique

It really is that impressive. His sampling technique was utterly jaw-dropping, especially given the conditions of where and how he made the project.

if nothing else

LIKE WATER FOR CHOCOLATE WASN'T PRODUCED SOLELY BY JAY DEE

IMO, the best production on a hip-hop album includes both Dilla and Premo as producers

IRONY

>I mean, a dude like Kanye made a career off of Dilla's Donuts
>technique


Donuts was spawned from Kanye's "distant lover" flip

I thought Donuts was more a Madlib influenced project than anything else. The motown beat tape is more what you're referring to I think.

> The motown beat tape

??? What is this?? Linkage?

doesnt make it his inspiration

-------------------------
“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

yes Premo probably produced better individual Hip-Hop tracks over the years.
Premier owns a sound that we associate with the early 90's NY Golden era of Hip-Hop.
So all of those Gang Starr joints bring us to that place, as do the Jeru joints.

But Premo also had the benefit of producing classic tracks for Biggie, Jay-Z, Nas, Big L
and countless others. So even if we love Dilla's beats (which we do) and love Fantastic Vol 2 for example, you can't compare BIG's "Unbelievable" to SV's "Get Dis Money" even though
I think Dilla's beat is crazier, funkier, lovelier and more dynamic than Premo's.

Premo is one of the greats. Dilla is one of the greats. Premo has the benefit of having
worked with some of the most iconic rappers ever and he fed them classic beats.

BUT, a premo instrumental album gets boring after you don't hear Guru or Jay or Nas
go in on it.

Not Dilla. Shit some of SV's verses are totally mumbled and inscrutable, and the beats still
got me with my ugly face on, neck jerking like, BAATIN IS KILLING THIS SHIT RIGHT HERE
and I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT DUDE IS SAYING!

That said, when legendary MC's do spit over Dilla beats (e.g: Stakes Is High or when you hear
that joint BIG did over Dilla) the result is powerful.

Well said yo....i pretty much agree with everything you wrote.

when Premo produced for NAS,BIG, and Jay they were NOT iconcs they all were rookies in the game so its really not fair to say he had "the benefit" of producing for them.





>But Premo also had the benefit of producing classic tracks for
>Biggie, Jay-Z, Nas, Big L
>and countless others. So even if we love Dilla's beats (which
>we do) and love Fantastic Vol 2 for example, you can't compare
>BIG's "Unbelievable" to SV's "Get Dis Money" even though
>I think Dilla's beat is crazier, funkier, lovelier and more
>dynamic than Premo's.

we'll give Premo credit for selling his beats to good prospects.

like these dudes didn't have all the hype in the world around them before
their first albums dropped? NY used to be a small city, so to speak.

but whatever, I'll give Premo props for providing his beats to up and coming
talent. But that being said, he was the sound of NY in the mid 90's so naturally they
were going to him for that.

I mean I'm born & bred NYC yo. So nobody on the innanets needs to convince
me how great DJ Premier is. That dude is like the soundtrack to my upbringing.

The fact that I can even see it somewhat objectively is twisted. I should be in here
claiming Premo as the undisputed heavy weight champ of all time.

but what can I say, J Dilla changed my life too! In a different kind of way.

dilla wins.

Large Professor is a better beat maker than DJ Premier.

So is No ID....So is Pete Rock......

DJ PRemier is one of my faves but after moment of truth has only maybe a few ACTUAL good beats.

His new stuff is trash for the most part. I could make better beats than some stuff he is putting out now.


I love Dilla...He is one of my faves....But even he is over rated to a point. But not because of his faults....just because of his legend. He isn't around to have a downfall like premier is.

>Large Professor is a better beat maker than DJ Premier.
>

you could argue this


>So is No ID....

quarantine this nigga


>So is Pete Rock......
>

you could argue this too


>DJ PRemier is one of my faves but after moment of truth has
>only maybe a few ACTUAL good beats.
>

this simply isn't true
his run on niggas albums in 2ooo alone disproves this


>His new stuff is trash for the most part. I could make better
>beats than some stuff he is putting out now.
>

do it
serious, nigga


>
>I love Dilla...He is one of my faves....But even he is over
>rated to a point. But not because of his faults....just
>because of his legend. He isn't around to have a downfall
>like premier is.

I'd agree with everything you said here

>So is No ID....

I might like 'Resurrection' as much or more than any DJ Premier album, but the only reason that you're dropping his name is because he's what "they" call "relevant" nowadays.

Just stop.

LITTLE VIC-THE EXORCIST
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5By3SHBp7Y0

CNN-GRAND ROYAL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOO3tX_F-IU

NYG'S-READY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBgjTm5wTTI&feature=related

REKS-SAY GOODNIGHT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUBxS5yxGTA
REKS-25TH HOUR
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oF7AU12LMB0

EVIDENCE-THE EPILOGUE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGefz39Yh5M&feature=related

TORAE-FOR THE RECORD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGqJdBrRzqY&feature=related

NOW...GO AWAY WITH THAT DUMB SHIT

than proceeded to say Preemo hasn't produced much dope shit since moment of truth: first LOL @ how wrong that is and you do realize for all the shit Large Pro deserve love for, he's been a relic since 96

>
>DJ PRemier is one of my faves but after moment of truth has
>only maybe a few ACTUAL good beats.
>
>His new stuff is trash for the most part. I could make better
>beats than some stuff he is putting out now.
>

i always get a kick out of that one

Love both obviously but I think Dilla edges Premo in his range but its a really hard pick for me though. Almost like choosing which one of your kids you prefer. You might just get lazy and pick the one that starting wiping his own ass first.

but Dilla is talented and gifted

-------------------------
“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

>1. Who is better to you?

dilla was more technically gifted. but i'm still not sure if that makes him "better" to me.

>2. Best 25 Beats...who wins?

honestly, i have to chart this one out.

>3. Who has the best fully produced LP?

dilla.

fantastic vol. 2 from top to bottom is a masterwork.

donuts is a personal favorite.

w2d explored a lot of territory.

ruff draft is straight gutter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=aWxUZ2oRUMA#!


AND PREEM SHIT ON THE LAMES AGAIN

I respect the responses...all of them but I go with Premo

dilla wins w/ his versatility and technique, but dj premier's run from 1992-1998 is pretty unfuckwitable by anybody not named rza.

If that is the case, does Dilla have a six year run or was his greatness scattered from 1996-until he passed on? Just curious to get your thoughts..

Yet not coated with the talent that RZA and Premier were blessed to have.

RZA: All of Wu-Tang, which, at the time, was ripe with creativity, versatility and talent. Price Paul with the Gravediggaz is also nice to have on the resume, as well as a Biggie track.

Premier: Where do I even start with this guy. Guru alone could hold down a whole project on his own without getting boring. And then you have Nas, Jay-Z, Biggie, Jeru, KRS-One, Show and AG, and Rakim... just to top it all off.

I'm not trying to take away from both of their respective talents at the time (the fact that Group Home has a classic album should state enough for Premier's case), but as you can see, it's very easy to seemingly have a better "run" when more people are listening because of who's rapping on those tracks in the first place.

Now, RZA and Premier are both beat geniuses that deserve all the praise and laurels that they have earned, but to say that their runs were better than Pete and Dilla's isn't exactly true, if you ask me.

Pete Rock... this guy's run is just as hot, if not hotter, than both of those two. Both of the Pete and CL LPs, along with their first EP, hold up to ANY Gang Starr LP as far as production is concerned. Pete is also responsible for Biggie's staple track Juicy, as well as Tribe's We Got the Jazz. And those remixes... need I say more?

Dilla is a different kinda story. See, he didn't come from New York, which I think has more to do with this than you would think. Pete Premier and RZA all had the connections to work with the big names, while Dilla had to kinda ride on Tip's back to get a beat out there. But by the time 1998 came around, he was able to make a big enough name for himself on the underground. And as far as runs are concerned, Dilla's was nothin to fucks with from 1996-2002. His remixes stole the show on practically every occasion and his complete projects stand up there (again, production wise) with those of the previous three. Welcome 2 Detroit and Fantastic Vol 2 are beautifully crafted musical projects whose beats I would, without shame, pit against Moment of Truth's, Liquid Sword's or Main Ingredient's.

All four of those are top 5 producers, though, and at this point it's just picking a favorite that appeals mostly to your taste.

Great perspective but I'm from North Carolina so I'm not stuck on the New York sound. When I was in school I rocked with NWA, Snoop, Ice Cube, DOC, Ras Kass, Souls of Mischief, Scafarce, Mc Eiht & Death Row sounds just as much as I did Rakim, Tribe, KRS, Nas, Biggie etc..

I personally think Premo is just the best overall. Dilla songs sound better as instrumentals b/c he is a better overall musician but to me as far as rap songs, Premo has more heat.

Pete Rock Dope and you are right, thats a close one in terms of his run and impact..

Agreed

Sorry.....they need to bow to Tip.