http://youtu.be/4OLqid9RABs

http://youtu.be/jAtaxon9t5g


I've never seen Stanley at such a lost for words lol....

like a year ago but such a good 'debate'
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Big PEMFin H & z's
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http://concretesoundsystem.com
Mo'Nium - http://monium.tumblr.com/

"When the music stops he falls back into this abyss."

critic wasn't able to do

and that made Mtume's argument more convincing


>like a year ago but such a good 'debate'
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>Big PEMFin H & z's
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>http://concretesoundsystem.com
>Mo'Nium - http://monium.tumblr.com/
>
>"When the music stops he falls back into this abyss."

~Austin

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Big PEMFin H & z's
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"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am one thing, a musician." © Miles Davis

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

He does speak with a certain authority that comes from having been on the bandstand with Miles, but he doesn't quite address the criticisms... Seems more like he kinda bullied Crouch into keeping quiet (which is okay by me, seeing that Crouch is a bully himself. But still.)

can't watch right now to refresh my memory. was he calling miles a sellout or saying it wasn't jazz?
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Big PEMFin H & z's
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"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am one thing, a musician." © Miles Davis

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

but if I recall it was basically the same criticism he's had of Miles Davis over the years, culminating with his essay "On the Corner: The Sellout of Miles Davis"... which is basically that Miles' electric period was garbage and more than that, was a hustle because Miles had no real respect for the music he was making but did it just to sell records to the longhairs.

i can't stand that period of his work either. and i too doubt Mile's passion for it. partly b/c he was just so awful at it. i wonder if he knew or cared.

apart from him being a real dick about it.

The part of it that summed it up for me was a quote from another jazz musician (can't remember who it was right now) who said he asked Miles for career advice and Miles told him something like "Get yourself a couple of white boys with guitars and turn the amps up."

I don't like everything from that era but I have a difficult time believing his attitude was that cynical/calculating. I've always thought he was doing the music he wanted to make, and he didn't care who the audience was.

but i figured i just wasn't refined/sophisticated enough

I can accept not liking the period. It ain't for everybody. But to try and discredit his integrity based off some anecdotal bullshit... FOH!!

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=2665607&mesg_id=2665607&page=

That's years!! Not one year, years!! And if you take the time to listen through those years there's a natural progression which is an extension of what he was doing before. And there's growth within those years. You can't seriously be like he was just going through the motions for another shot in the limelight. Dude was following his muse.

AND... SIG!!
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Big PEMFin H & z's
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"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am one thing, a musician." © Miles Davis

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

Jack Jackson is great, so is Get Up With It, I think... Bitches Brew, of course, is beautiful.

It's On the Corner that always offended me... also Big Fun, I think. And Agharta/Pangaea... I must have listened to those albums every day for a year back in 95/96, trying to force myself to *get* it.

(I should listen to them again now that I'm more mature, though)

On the Corner to me is a really cynical album, though.

LOL

including Bitches Brew. which is god-awful, imo.

all of electric Miles that i've heard is butt.

i dunno what the hell homeboy was on to have made that shit. i've been on cocaine and weed and acid and other stuff and i still think that music sounds like ass.

i've heard Sly Stone records and i've heard James Brown and i've heard jazz. when i think of melding those sounds i don't get electric Miles. i get electric Miles when i wonder what it would sound like if a freight train ran over a jazz quartet that was visiting a 7th grade garage Rock band's warm-up session on its 1st day of existence.

>i've heard Sly Stone records and i've heard James Brown and
>i've heard jazz. when i think of melding those sounds i don't
>get electric Miles.

The three are not related. It's not funk.

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Big PEMFin H & z's
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"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am one thing, a musician." © Miles Davis

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

to the point where i don't understand why those artists are mentioned in connection w/Miles's stuff. b/c it sounds _nothing_ like their work.

i know Miles used to do blow w/Sly. but that's about the only connection that can or should be made. it ain't musical. not based on what i've heard.

note: i hate Free Jazz. like, hate it.

I LOVE free-jazz and it was an innovation from *within* jazz that pushed certain aspects always there to the extreme, fusion on the other hand was a hybrid genre from a genre in crises trying to remain relevant; it's like comparing death metal to nu-metal...

it may help contextualize my feelings about electric Miles.

is 100% of his marriages ended in divorce!!
lol






wait is that right?

lol
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Big PEMFin H & z's
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"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am one thing, a musician." © Miles Davis

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

i believe that's true. unless he killed 1 of them.

The solo on "Miles Runs the Voodoo down" on "Bitches Brw" shows a bluesy and funky side of Miles that you have to go back to "Miles Smiles" and the song "Freedom jazz dance" to hear previously, he had ignored that aspect of his style for several years. The "Jack Johnson"-album has some really inspired playing on Miles behalf as well but not much after that ; he mostly just blurted out a note every once in a while on "On the Corner" and those records.

Basically, I think the more "populist" musical idiom inspired Miles himself in terms of the solos etc. for a while but I don't think he had much of a vision for the music as a whole and I don't think he truly understood rock or funk either, several of his statements in his own book makes that perfectly clear... That's just my opinion though, everyone is allowed to disagree regardless of my tone...

j/k

Miles had a vision though. That much if I remember correctly is addressed by Mtume in the clips.
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Big PEMFin H & z's
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"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am one thing, a musician." © Miles Davis

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

lol

>i dunno what the hell homeboy was on to have made that shit.
>i've been on cocaine and weed and acid and other stuff and i
>still think that music sounds like ass.
>
>i've heard Sly Stone records and i've heard James Brown and
>i've heard jazz. when i think of melding those sounds i don't
>get electric Miles. i get electric Miles when i wonder what
>it would sound like if a freight train ran over a jazz quartet
>that was visiting a 7th grade garage Rock band's warm-up
>session on its 1st day of existence.
>
>

Because your exceedingly cynical view, coupled with what appears to be not a very deep knowledge of the music you're writing off, is disappointing.

Big Fun was recorded same time as Bitches Brew. Likewise Get Up With It during On the Corner sessions.

~Austin

http://austintayeshus.blogspot.com
http://www.last.fm/user/Austintayeshus
http://twitter.com/Austintayeshus
http://soundcloud.com/austintayeshus

>Big Fun was recorded same time as Bitches Brew. Likewise Get
>Up With It during On the Corner sessions.

So because they were recorded in the same session I got to like both of them?

~Austin

http://austintayeshus.blogspot.com
http://www.last.fm/user/Austintayeshus
http://twitter.com/Austintayeshus
http://soundcloud.com/austintayeshus

~Austin

http://austintayeshus.blogspot.com
http://www.last.fm/user/Austintayeshus
http://twitter.com/Austintayeshus
http://soundcloud.com/austintayeshus

the music made itself. it was raw, edgy, funky, just badass.
when i first heard 'the cellar door sessions,' coupled with
'the complete on the corner sessions,' i thought was the greatest
shit that i had ever heard. used to spend weeks on just one track,
each listen blowing my mind. that era was out of this world and
not much comes close to it, imo.

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"It is better to be silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"

I mean the guy misstates and misrepresents what Mtume is saying ...right after Mtume says it...lol..

can't really have a reasonable debate with someone who is avoiding reason.

i know you want to.

DON'T!

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Big PEMFin H & z's
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"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am one thing, a musician." © Miles Davis

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

you're in here speaking your mind on this subject, but Warren Coolidge can't...

miss me player.

look at the first video...start at the 9:20 mark and listen to what Mtume says.....as it plays ..around 10:17 Crouch says "according to him (mtume).." then goes on to misstate what Mtume had said. ..... now James goes on to correct Crouch.... but I'm sure there are numerous examples of this type of thing during this "debate"

you can't have a real debate with someone like that...who will just make stuff up on the fly to support their point of view. Just can't do it.

seeing the post jump up in replies, i assumed it had already happened.

and i can see both sides of this really.

i mean i dug stuff Miles did electric, however when it comes to fusion early 70's Donald Byrd and the mitzell Brothers stuff does it better overall for me, and the free style thing

Sun Rai and Pharoah Sanders go toe to toe as well IMO.

so it all comes down to the listner, both sides make legit points IMO