I know people do the "Nas Lost" on here a lot but on a serious note, where do you rank Nas honestly on the All Time MC List? Where? Why? Nas is my favorite MC but I will say to me he is Top 5 (between 3-5) to me but what about you?

Below show that Nas is not as lazy as some people might think. If you add this and his unreleased material (legendary enough off that) its hard for me to imagine a top 10 without him. Thoughts??

Studio albums (wiki)

Illmatic (1994)
It Was Written (1996)
I Am... (1999)
Nastradamus (1999)
Stillmatic (2001)
God's Son (2002)
Street's Disciple (2004)
Hip Hop Is Dead (2006)
Untitled (2008)
Life Is Good (2012)...coming

Collaboration albums

The Firm: The Album (with The Firm) (1997)
Distant Relatives (with Damian Marley) (2010)

Compilation albums

QB's Finest (with Various Artists) (2000)
From Illmatic to Stillmatic: The Remixes (2002)
The Lost Tapes (2002)
Greatest Hits (2007)
The Lost Tapes: Vol. 2 (2012)coming?

#Peace

lulz

What are you ranking exactly?

Right now I wanna say #1 just because he's my favorite, and I think him at his best IS the best.

Because on the other hand, although Nas is my #1, I know that Jay-Z is the "greatest" even though he only has 2 good albums too me.

I'm talking about where would he rank as an overall MC in regards to talent, albums, legacy, flow, lyrics etc..etc.. How great is Nas?

#1 - Jay Z

Then 2-4 is a really close match up between Big,Pac, and Nas.

Nas is definently the better artist out of the 3, Jay too, but he's Jay- Z. The only thing Pac and Biggie have over Nas is impact/ a legacy. The only thing that keeps me from putting Nas at number 2 is that idk how people, people being the average pop listener, will remember Nas when he eventually dies.

Ah what ever. Nas at #2 because his discog kills Big's and Pac's, the whole ranking really depends on how important Impact, is in determining "Greatness". B/c too me Nas's discography/skill kills, Biggie,Pac, and Jays.

#2 - Nas
#3 - Biggie
#4 - Pac

lol..I hear you fam...I'm not sure what my top 5 are....I argue with myself about 7 MC's in no order... Rakim, KRS, Jigga, Nas, Biggie/Pac/LL .....lol

I would really love to put LL, KRS, or Rakim up there; but impact, relevancy hold me back.

I said I'd love to list KRS and Rakim, but they have 0 relevance today.

I wasn't trying to sleight their impact.

And even if they're not directly relevant, rappers that they had a large influence on are still relevant. Not to mention, they had long runs of being relevant, at a time when the life span of rappers was really short.

Hell, LL was relevant for 20 years. How you gonna say somebody can't be the greatest because they came out in 85 instead of 95? I mean, if in 2021, Jay-z is done and nobody checks for his new stuff anymore, does that mean he can no longer be the greatest in your eyes?

That's like saying Michael Jordan is no longer the greatest because he doesn't still play in the NBA and isn't better than Kobe right today.

But, see the difference is people KNOW Michael Jordan. Michael's still around/visible and people know who he is.

Rakim and KRS don't have it like that. LL is the closest to being there since he's still somewhat visible.

You ask anyone who Michael Jordan is 99% of the time they can tell you, do the same for Rakim or KRS you'll get blank stares most of the time.

20 years from now I do think people will still know who Jay Z is or was, same with Pac and Big. They had impact, output, and will continue to be known.

>You ask anyone who Michael Jordan is 99% of the time they can
>tell you, do the same for Rakim or KRS you'll get blank stares
>most of the time.

I mean....WHAT!?!?! You really showing your age right now.

Go find any random person

Who's Kool Herc?
Blank stare

Who's Rakim
Blank stare

Who's LL Cool J
You'd get an which I conceded above.

Who's KRS-One
Blank Stare.

See what I mean^

Hip hop fans know Rakim and KRS. Even young ones. They might not listen to them, but they know. If they don't know, they ain't no hip hop fan in the first place.

And if they don't know and aren't much of a hip hop fan, they have no say on who is the "greatest" in the first place so who gives a damn?

The fuck???

Jordan was able to be Jordan because of Magic and Larry

Magic and Larry could be Magic and Larry because of

Oscar and Jerry

Who were able to be them because of Bill Russell


Who was able to be Russell because of George Mikan


Who was able to be George Mikan because of


The actual pioneers are always relatively obscure.


----------------------------

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

It's a very sad fact that pioneers don't get the credit, or respect they deserve.

It's even worse with Hip Hop though since it moves so fast, the elders and forefathers of the genre don't get any real recognition.

Like how Kool Herc had to beg for donations.

Wtf.

Puff, Jay, long list of wealthy rappers, couldn't just through him a few stacks.

It's sad. :\

>It's a very sad fact that pioneers don't get the credit, or
>respect they deserve.
>
>It's even worse with Hip Hop though since it moves so fast,
>the elders and forefathers of the genre don't get any real
>recognition.
>
>Like how Kool Herc had to beg for donations.
>
>Wtf.
>
>Puff, Jay, long list of wealthy rappers, couldn't just through
>him a few stacks.
>
>It's sad. :\


Just because the world doesn't know KRS One like they
do Jay says nothing for Jay deserving a higher place
on the all-time greats list

Jay benefited from the sacrifices of guys like
KRS...almost by definition, the Rakims and KRS's
have to be among the all time greats...the succeeded
in an era when the music was completely taboo/unknown






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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

. . .than Rakim.

~Austin

Impact my G? Rakim is the blueprint of the modern MC. Every MC will tell you that..lol..I respect your opinion but you might want to google and wiki Rakim for a little research.

I know who Rakim is, I heard him *before* hearing Nas.
And once I heard Nas for the first time I thought of Nas as Ra 1.5.

But, what I'm saying is impact & relevancy. Rakim no doubt was very important for the development as Mcing lyrically, and sylistically.

But, today he has no relevance, none whatsoever to the average Hip-Hop listener.

You said overall, so I figured relevance today counted as well.

U mean the the avg YOUNG hip hop listener.

The average young Hip-Hop listener is the average Hip-Hop listener.

when i think of that discography, he's top 5

If were really being honest with ourselves

I can't really come up with a number, but if I were discussing my favorite MCs ever, he wouldn't even occur to me.

Sorry, but you asked.

~Austin

these gentlemen are sloppily sucking off a rapper whose very name is synonymous with squandered talent and dismal disappointment.

His 100 or so unreleased songs show his hasnt wasted an ounce of talent. The biggest issue is not putting his best tracks on his LP's. He has more great unreleased songs than any MC in the history or rap including Tupac. It's not even close when it comes to that but to just not like him is cool. No issue with that but he has unreleased classics for days. He is just not a good business cat.

>these gentlemen are sloppily sucking off a rapper whose very
>name is synonymous with squandered talent and dismal
>disappointment.

You sound like the dickheads who hate on Randy Moss'
career.

Its one of the 3 best ever for a wide receiver.

End of discussion.

----------------------------

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Randy Moss's rookie season was one of the best rookie seasons in NFL History.

He followed that up with a sterling second year, third year, fourth year, etc...

Yeah, he fell off for a minute, but he came back and once again played some of the best football ever played at his position.

What exactly is parallel of Randy Moss' career and that of Nas? Randy Moss's entire career was absolutely not defined by his rookie year.

Some uneven albums, but he's still made more great songs than damn near everyone. And when it comes down to it, he raps better than everyone else and there's only a few that you can debate as being better rappers.

Rakim, Kane, KRS, LL, Cube, Pac, Scarface, Biggie, jay, Chuck D, and Redman get consideration as next best IMO.

More quotables over a longer period of time (1993-present) than your favorite Rapper's favorite Rapper. Say what you will about the beats,he's NEVER fallen off lyrically.STILL just as sharp and hungry sounding today as ever (see:"Nasty & the doubletime flow on the Wayne LP) 18 years later! This is where the Jay stans stumble and start coming at you with everything EXCEPT skills cause since the Black album he fell off lyrically with that Half talk-half flow shit he does now. Jay signed Nas,He's on the Forbes list,he took an L with Kelis,bla bla bla.....If Jay didn't think Nas was already looked at as the Best MC why did he throw the Bait out there then? he knew to be considered best who he had to go thru and it backfired on him.

Who sounds best RIGHT TODAY? (c) Coolidge. Not records but SKILLS??? Not half as close as some yall wanna pretend.

n/m

Rakim
Jay
Nas
Kool Moe Dee
Black Thought

The word poetry used to get brought up a lot in Hip-Hop, often inappropriately,
but nevertheless rarely gets said any more. Nas is one of the true poets in Hip-Hop
history. He's the student of Rakim and he surpassed his mentor. End of story.
I make a best of Nas mix, 18 tracks, no MC is touching it with a 10 foot pole.
And if they are, their names sound like Kool G Rap, not whoever is coming out most
of your mouths.

I'm interested to see if they mirror the 18 tracks I think I might pick.

I haven't come up with that list yet but it wouldn't take long. Or maybe it would, cause it'd be hard to narrow it down.

Glad you asked. . lets put it this way. I was trying to school somebody on Nas
fairly recently and gave them this tracklist -

1. No Ideas Original
2. Nas is Like
3. Take It In Blood
4. Purple
5. N.Y. State of Mind, Pt 2
6. Verbal Intercourse
7. Halftime
8. The Message
9. I Gave You Power
10. Made You Look
11. Theif's Theme
12. Live at the Barbecue
13. N.Y. State of Mind
14. Fast Life (Norfside Remix)
15. The World Is Yours
16. One Mic
17. Affirmative Action
18. It Ain't Hard To Tell

You named every track that immediately came to mind for me when I first read your post...which were:

Nas is Like, Take It in Blood, The Message, The World is Yours, Verbal Intercourse, and NY State of Mind.

The rest of your list is great too. I'll have to give some thought to narrowing my list down to 18 to see how they would compare. I'll report back.

>Glad you asked. . lets put it this way. I was trying to
>school somebody on Nas
>fairly recently and gave them this tracklist -
>
>1. No Ideas Original
>2. Nas is Like
>3. Take It In Blood
>4. Purple
>5. N.Y. State of Mind, Pt 2
>6. Verbal Intercourse
>7. Halftime
>8. The Message
>9. I Gave You Power
>10. Made You Look
>11. Theif's Theme
>12. Live at the Barbecue
>13. N.Y. State of Mind
>14. Fast Life (Norfside Remix)
>15. The World Is Yours
>16. One Mic
>17. Affirmative Action
>18. It Ain't Hard To Tell

http://rateyourmusic.com/list/Nodima/geek_down__nodimas_hip_hop_index

skipping groups and guys I consider mainly producers

1. Big Boi (MATH BIAS)
2. KRS-One
3. Notorious B.I.G.
4. Masta Ace
5. MF DOOM
6. Mos Def
7. Raekwon (gets a major boost for touching 75% of tracks on 36 Chambers, which no other MC did and what I use to include a group album in a solo score)
8. Q-Tip
9. Freddie Gibbs
10. 2Pac
11. Jay-Z
12. Ghostface Killah
13. Kanye West
14. Nas
15. Lil' Wayne


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas

http://www.last.fm/user/NodimaChee

http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517

http://rateyourmusic.com/list/Nodima/run_that_shit__nodimas_hip_hop_handbook

And "hip."

~Austin

No disrespect but I cant take a list serious when you have someone like Freddie Gibbs over Nas and he doesnt even have an official LP and Nas has 18 years of work. MF Doom over Nas..lol...dude, now if these are just your favorite rappers...thats one thing..

what calculations cause you to pick a guy with no albums over a guy with 18 years?

Like you said, had he said "favorite" it'd be a different story.

it's just more fun for me this way. blame There's a God on the Mic.

since you brought up Gibbs, this is the comparison. (artists get a .5 boost for every 5 albums to the final average)

Nas is just as good of a rapper, and in my top 5 most listened to rappers ever. But if I'm talking about the music as a whole, right now I think Gibbs is doing a little better beats, songs, etc. wise. And yea, that's just me. I never mean to say 'math' in an objective sense, just 'bored one day in a record store' sense.

Either way, fake or real math, I don't think a difference of .11 means much to the average joe ie. me. Maybe actual mathematicians and scientists. Oh well.

Lastly, Midwestgangsta...is an album (if you missed the remastered, remixed NO DJ version dropped a week later...you lost). A fantastic one. Edged into my top 50 over the past few years.

Freddie Gibbs

1. Midwestgangstaboxframecadillacmuzik: 8.92
2. The Miseducation of Freddie Gibbs: 8.07
3. Lord Giveth, Lord Taketh Away: 8.03
4. Str8 Killa: 7.59
5. Str8 Killa No Filla: 7.45
6. Live from Gary, Indiana Part 2: 6.17
___________________________________
Average: 8.21/10

46.23 + .5

Nas

1. Illmatic: 9.86
2. The Lost Tapes: 8.95
3. God's Son: 7.89
4. It Was Written: 7.89
5. Stillmatic: 7.37
6. Distant Relatives: 7.25
7. The Nigger Tape: 7.18
8. Untitled: 6.78
9. I Am...: 5.87
10. Street's Disciple: 5.82
11. Hip Hop Is Dead: 5.80
12. Nastradamus: 4.57
___________________________________
Average: 8.10/10

85.23 + 1.00


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas

http://www.last.fm/user/NodimaChee

http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517

http://rateyourmusic.com/list/Nodima/run_that_shit__nodimas_hip_hop_handbook

I can appreciate that, fully.

It's all opinion anyway, I just thought it was funny before remembering that you actually did have some kind of ratings system. Good stuff.

Shakespeare.

If you like Kanye better as an artist overall that's fine, good for you,
but to have him higher on a 'Best MC's List?' Nah son.

I mean honestly, its just plain irresponsible and borderline ignorant.

in the original post. this IS a list of artists.

if I were to rank MCs I have no idea where I'd rank almost anyone other than having Jay, Ghost and Nas in the top 3.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas

http://www.last.fm/user/NodimaChee

http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517

http://rateyourmusic.com/list/Nodima/run_that_shit__nodimas_hip_hop_handbook

dude is one of the few baddest lyricist ever, however a few things work against him

too many uneven and gimmicky based projects that just didn't compliment his attempts

his cross over attempts are hit and miss and he inflicted more damage on himself than any rapper could dare.

Nas never had to change and he tried to stay relevent and met with mixed results.

he had a chance IMO at one time to be in the top 7 but dude ain't counted in so long and I can't even tell you the last cut he made that moved me, however taking everything into consideration i'll say in the 11-19 slot which is a great compliment and it still tells me he could have been higher had he went for his best stuff as to trying to be trendy or do some stuff that was beneath him.

your criticisms. his crossover attempts were failures. and many
of his projects really fell flat. but that being said, when you isolate
his best material, when I forget all of the context and just play
his best stuff, he's one of if not the best.

1. Jay-Z
2. Biggie
3. Rakim
4. Nas
5. Pac

- Artistic credibility

- Has sold a lot of records (stop it, he has)

- Longevity

- Influence




----------------------------

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

i mean, there are other "conceivable standards."

for example, nas doesn't really have many big hit records over the last decade. "made you look," "one mic," "i can" and "ether" don't stack up against what artists like 50 cent or TI or wayne or jeezy or busta have done from a popularity standpoint over that duration. not saying nas shouldn't be higher than those dudes, just saying it's a metric.

>i mean, there are other "conceivable standards."
>
>for example, nas doesn't really have many big hit records over
>the last decade. "made you look," "one mic," "i can" and
>"ether" don't stack up against what artists like 50 cent or TI
>or wayne or jeezy or busta have done from a popularity
>standpoint over that duration. not saying nas shouldn't be
>higher than those dudes, just saying it's a metric.

I mean, M.I.A. also has a single bigger than any Nas
single. You're just manufacturing the "singles" category
because it allows you to hate.

Because Nas' albums actually sell fairly well by rap
standards, and album sales are the far more important
financial metric if we are going to put finances into
the equation at all


I mean, we can also subtract points because he got divorced
if it allows you to hate properly.





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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

i'm not hating or being argumentative. are you really pretending hit songs--whether on the radio, in the streets or the club--isn't a viable category to discuss? in any popular genre of music, whenever great artists are discussed, they talk about singles charts and massive hits. stop being weird.

so, just to be clear, you're arguing that popular records is not even a "conceivable category" that could be taken into account when judging a musician's legacy?

>i'm not hating or being argumentative. are you really
>pretending hit songs--whether on the radio, in the streets or
>the club--isn't a viable category to discuss? in any popular
>genre of music, whenever great artists are discussed, they
>talk about singles charts and massive hits. stop being weird.


Even if Nas had NO GREAT singles, he'd still be top 5
all-time, because he is strong in just about every other
relevant category.

Your argument is like like saying Wilt Chamberlain isn't
one of the best players ever because he didn't hit
free throws. That's wrong because its wrong.


But to make matters worse for you:

Nas actually *does* have good singles.

Even better--almost NO RAPPER consistently has as good
*street* singles as Nas.

So even if you're bullshit category is right, you're
still wrong.


>so, just to be clear, you're arguing that popular records is
>not even a "conceivable category" that could be taken into
>account when judging a musician's legacy?

No, I am arguing that you being mad is a conceivable
category, though.




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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

first you said hit records wasn't a "conceivable category."
now you say it is.

so we're in agreement.

>first you said hit records wasn't a "conceivable category."
>now you say it is.

That's actually not what I said, but I'd shapeshift
if I was you too.

I said that even if it *was*, you're *still* wrong.

>so we're in agreement.

That you mad? Sure.

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

never change.

you actually did totally misunderstand what he said.

his original post said nas is the best in "every conceivable category."

i said hit singles is a "conceivable category."

he said "he is strong in just about every other relevant category."

so we're in agreement that hit singles is a conceivable category. i wasn't even talking about nas really, just criteria.

>you actually did totally misunderstand what he said.

And there is no way to agree with him, because
he's wrong even by his own definition:

If you think singles are a key characteristic
in determining a top 5 MCee, Nas is still top 5.



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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

>If you think singles are a key characteristic
>in determining a top 5 MCee, Nas is still top 5.

I mean, he's no M.I.A., but to suggest that
lack of singles disqualifies him from top 5
status is simply false.





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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

just said it's a "conceivable category" for ranking someone.

>just said it's a "conceivable category" for ranking someone.

I said that "albums sales" is far more relevant, since
album sales are the aim, and singles are only relevant
because they push the artist to the public so that the
public buys albums. Albums are the currency in music.
Not debatable and has nothing to do with Nas.

By the album sale standards, Nas has sold between
pretty good and great his whole career.

You manufactured the singles argument because you mad
and thought it might be a way to discredit Nas.


Even using your bullshit singles argument, Nas still
wins, because:

a) He actually does have some solid singles with some
general appeal


b) NO ONE releases successful street singles like Nas.



So you're wrong for like, 14 reasons.




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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

even w/ that, he's not really on my personal list

Don't really care for lists. I just know he's my favourite MC.

top 5 if we're talking about his ability, but his discography drags him down, IMO.

The I AM...NASTRADAMUS era is sleepy, hurt by bootlegging. STILLMATIC to STREET'S DISCIPLE was a lil spotty but generally respectable in comparison. HIP HOP IS DEAD should have been better. UNTITLED would have been great if it had more NIGGER TAPE tracks and less pop concessions. on a major label, you won't be getting any of that. nowhere else in music is the drive to make something profitable as obvious as it is in hip-hop.

The reason I'd rank Nas high enough to be with KRS, Rakim, etc is because we're STILL talking about him some 17 years after his solo debut album, 20 years after he first appeared on a wildly released album. he's like Redman in that regard, though I think with Red's last two releases (or three if we're honest), he slowly inched out of the spotlight.

more importantly, he can still release new music and sound decent to very good, and "fit in", which was a problem in the late '90s-early '00s for him. I think he just might end up being the only rapper from that generation to end up on some "KRS" shit where his age doesn't matter... he can show up on a track and make it hip-hop.

Smartest thing he ever did in recent years was guest on Tha Carter IV; for most of the rappers that appeared it heightened awareness to a new audience.

I think the best thing about Nas, is also the worst thing about Nas. He's not afraid to try new things, even if he sounds like shit doing it. He has a very standoffish approach to music, versus a need to be consistently validated. if he sucks, he really doesn't give a shit.

>I think the best thing about Nas, is also the worst thing
>about Nas. He's not afraid to try new things, even if he
>sounds like shit doing it. He has a very standoffish approach
>to music, versus a need to be consistently validated. if he
>sucks, he really doesn't give a shit.

Very well said. This may be the most apt description of Nas that I've seen. And it also illustrates the most glaring difference between him and JayZ, which is why their beef was and still is always so compelling. JayZ needs constant validation which is why he TELLS everyone he's the greatest all the fucking time, and is also why he went after Nas in the first place.

Whereas Nas lets his work speak for itself, and like you said, sometimes it's the best thing for him that he's not afraid to try new things, sometimes it's the worst for him. Examples are that I think the Distant Relatives project was a good risk and worked out, whereas Untitled was a bad thing for him even though it got him some press; he just didn't pull off the "concept" very well.

10-15 was what i said before a trollification edit. but after top 5, the rankings thing is screwed, because no one will even consider anyone whose career took off after 2000 (besides maybe eminem). it sounds heretical to put TI ahead of kool g rap or kane, but from an analytic perspective, he probably should be. and comparing weezy to melle mel is frigging weird.

Nas is in my top 5 MC's of all time...That's just me...He's a better lyricist than Jay-Z, and I dig Jay...But Jay gets him on his ability to stay steady in terms of his cultural longevity...But overall lyrical talent? Nas wins that race...And that says a lot because when Jay really wants to, that dude is a beast on the mic...(For the record...1.Rakim 2.Jay-Z, 3. Nas 4. KRS-One 5. Biggie/Scarface...Tied)

One thing I will say going back to Nas...Anyone who doesn't have dude at least in their top 10 is TROLLING like a motherfucka....

...top 5 ever...it goes down like this...

no real order...

Rakim
Nas
Black Thought
J-Live
Pharoah Monch

Name your five...I'm curious...

It'll result in Spidey posting youtube clips of Talib Kweli for hours and then him sending you a hurt feelings PM.

Flow, vocabulary, longevity, voice, varied content, humor, awesome story teller, memorable guests spots.

He has a very good discography, although the rough parts are very bad. And he does flub facts more than I'd like.

__
I don't like the beat anymore because its just a loop. ALC didn't FLIP IT ENOUGH!

Flip it enough? Flip these. Flip off. Go flip some f*cking burgers.(c)Kno

Allied State of the National Electric Beat Treaty Organization (NEBTO)

I don't

I'm not trollin, but I feel like alot of Nas stans are going to show up for this post
as a music fan, with no horse in this race, he doesn't rate IMO
his name wouldn't come to mind when making a GOAT list

Why?

I kind of tuned out early in his career
Illmatic was a perfect hip-hop album
everthing else not only fell short, it felt different
his energy disappeared
that raw spit was gone
feels forced
never evolved
etc...

I would absolutely love to see the caliber of "MCs" you would place above him, if he really has no placement on your list. I can't imagine what that list could possibly look like.

You said the energy was gone...ummm, if you can't hear the energy he's spitting with in TWENTY ELEVEN on "Nasty" then you just aren't listening. He never lost shit.

Questionable beat choices? Sure. Subpar albums? Sure.

But on an all time MCs list, if you're not listing him SOMEWHERE, ANYWHERE, you just aren't listening. At all.

yeah, he's good for a single here and there

but the GOAT, c'mon son

Nasty was leaked like last year, disappeared, and now there's a video for it Nas, and stans are treating it brand new

I wasn't blown away the first time

and personally, a GOAT convo doesn't involve more than 5 MCs

KRS
RAKIM
BLACK THOUGHT
KANE
BIG

and there's a whole handful of MCs whose career I've been alot more interested in and still follow before we get to Nas

so yeah, he doesn't rank for me

"Subpar albums"

we can stop here

If he is the GOAT, why do I feel let down after purchasing his ablum
How many subpar albums do I have to purchase before I stop checking for dude
answer 2
He owes me $20 for a couple of garbage albums I bought
I guess you have money to burn

>and personally, a GOAT convo doesn't involve more than 5 MCs

I didn't realize that was a written rule.

But if that's the way you look at it, what you were saying makes a little bit more sense.

I never said he was the GOAT or had to be in anyone's top 5. My point was that you said "He doesn't rank" on a question about a list of Top MCs, which judging by the generic question could be a list of 1, 5, 10, 20, or 1,000. And so when you say "I don't rank him" that meant to me that there could potentially be 100's of MCs that you rank ahead of him, which is ludicrous.

But, if you consider a "Top MCs" list to be limited to 5, then all the power to you, and I can't easily knock anyone out of your top 5 so we CAN stop here.

because the OP says Nas is his favorite MC but has him ranked #3 or something like that
and I've seen subsequent posts like that
and other posts claiming GOAT status

all-time

maybe top 20

another reason why I said I don't rank him
I've never sat down and made a list of the greatest MCs of all-time
the convo is always about the GOAT
and he's not on my list for that convo

Tough to take your rationale for not ranking Nas seriously....Considering BDK, as much as I dig dude, basically had a four-five year run....

But hey...That's just me...

Kane fell off after his first few albums just like Nas....only Kane never really recovered. Nas did.

And I'm a huge Kane fan and rate him very highly. But based on your reasons for not rating Nas, it seems as if those same reasons would apply to Kane. Unless you like Prince of Darkness WAY more than everyone else.

2 Classics >>> 1

Kane was just the man
Style
Swag
and no one was fucking with dude on the mic...

it might have been only 4-5 years

but those 4-5 years he was KING

mortal combat >>> ether

the juice crew >>> the firm

Nas sold more records and had a longer career

but I'd go with Kane in pretty much every other category

>2 Classics >>> 1
>
>Kane was just the man
>Style
>Swag
>and no one was fucking with dude on the mic...
>
>it might have been only 4-5 years
>
>but those 4-5 years he was KING


Kane wasn't KING...During the same era a guy named Rakim was in his prime...Also during that era was KRS-One, Chuck D and not to mention the formation of the Native Tongue movement...Hell, Kool G Rap and Scarface were coming into their own...

Like I said, I love Kane...He was a great combo---MC and entertainer (some people forget that as nasty as BDK was on the mic, that dude could dance is ass off...he had a GREAT stage show)....But Kane's low points are lower than any of the GOATS...Even when Nas was stumbling with Nastradamus and making silly, tepid cross-over tracks, his worst moments could never be lower than Kane taking his "loverman" image to cartoon like levels...There are others that have made a bigger imprint than Kane...LL Cool J, Scarface, Ice Cube, Redman ect...

For me, BDK is def. a top 10 MC....But top 5?....And you are leaving out the most important lyrical MC of the '90s?....Nah...

Choosing Kane before Nas is simply head scratching if we go by your original rationale behind leaving Nas out of the conversation...

Catalog inconsistencies, questionable L's taken in real life, all of that shit notwithstanding, there's still nobody else fucking with him.


There are no other rappers out there who could fill up a playlist of 150-200 tracks of consistently DOPE shit, like 9/10 or above.


He is also the most lyrically talented rapper I've ever come across, especially when you consider the strength of subject matter he uses. Nobody else has ever combined the clever wordplay, cerebral storytelling, stream of consciousness raps, street shit, introspective shit quite like him.


Beat selection is his achilles heal, but even that has been overblown. The beats on Illmatic and It Was Written are almost all excellent. The Firm album had enough heat from Dre. I Am & Nastradamus were scattershot but still had heat strewn throughout. Stillmatic had strong production. The Lost Tapes had immaculate production. God's Son was produced very well. Street's Disciple was scattershot again, but Hip Hop Is Dead was his most well-produced album since probably It Was Written. Untitled was hit or miss, and wasn't my cup of tea aside from a few tracks, but I don't hold that against him at all. The man has given me nuff bangers over his career.

And none of this is taking into account a) all the classic and memorable guest verses he's dropped, from Wu, to Mobb, to AZ and so on and so on, and b) the wealth of unreleased material that is better than 95% of emcees' released catalogs. You could create 2-3 classic albums of just unreleased shit from 95-2000.


Impact wise, Nas is your favorite rapper's favorite rapper. As long as your favorite rapper wasn't born after the year 1990 and doesn't have the word "Lil" or "Young" in his name.



Nas' place in the game is firmly established as one of the GOATs, and to me personally there is nobody above him. If you don't have him in your top 5-10, YOU LOST. (see what I did there?)

.

I think Nas has earned a top-ranking spot from all true heads by this point. Even though he's never really been in the pocket where we'd like to have him, that's part of what makes him so great: he's finally realized that we just want him to be himself. That's the show we're paying to see. So now that he doesn't have to chase down commercial mirages, maybe we can see some truly good and inspiring stuff come from his camp as he enters the "twilight" of his career. (Though I hope him and Jay both are able to rap well into their 50s if they so choose.)

As for the best, I think Jay ha duped us all into believing that he is for so long now that he actually holds the claim. The man has done some incredible stuff over the course of his career. Give credit where it's due.

Guys like Pac, Big, Rakim are probably the other three safe picks to round out the top five at this point. (Note: This isn't my personal five, more of a consensus.)

Everybody rapping right now using multiple syllables and internal rhyme schemes, compressing their whole life into a rhyme learnt that from Nas, who picked up the early methodology from Rakim and Kool G Rap, but clearly carved the artform wide open after he put his spin on it. There is no further improvement necessary in MC'ing after Nas. It's not likely. Infact, when MC's try to zip their word output more in a rhyme it is borderline ludicrous, like wordplay for wordplay's sake. Nas had that perfect balance with the styles, the verbosity and the wordplay and the urgent need to be heard, i.e., the actual necessary and powerful message; that ability to say something profounding and shocking like Ice Cube. These days it's as if he is taking more breaks when he rhymes and tilting the balance more to conversational and measured lyrical flows than heavy alliterative, polyiambic displays. He still manages to sound peerless regardless. I could stop here, but...

He made the greatest hip-hop album, Illmatic. Fuck explaining this. I don't have time to explain nor to care for those who feel otherwise.

He has been doing rap thing at the highest level since 16 years old, and he is still relevant tomorrow. He gets punished for peaking out too soon, but he really never fell off. Infact he may be the only 50 year old rapper I am going to care to listen to in 10 years or so. You know why ? He'll make a comfortable and unforced record with Damian Marley and produce seamless genius of a hip-hop/reggae or spoken word hybrid.

He is amongst the most succesful and top selling rappers in the history of the art.

He is one of the top 3 reasons anybody wants to go to Rock the Bells last year and the next 5 years or so. He is like that thing in hip-hop that true heads still feel they have and have not lost in hip-hop. If there ever needed to be a time capsule of hip-hop or a frozen moment to archive, Nas is it !

I can go on.

probably number around #3

The man asked, just answer folks.

Everyone is being PC about is question. Biggie & Pac impact is based a marketing...Jay just has the machine around him.


The great ones are rarely respected in their lifetime. Example, Carsandra Wilson has more talent than Alicia Keys will in ten lifetimes, but who is all over the radio and who has the money. imapct today mean who is all over the radio, internet and magazine...that is just marketing


1. Krs-One(an old egotistcal beast, who has been on the blocks for decades. He is not producing candy rap but grown man hip hop! Choose your style and Krs will perfect it better than you!!!

2. Rakim-layout the blueprint for your favorite MC who is Your favorite's favorite.

3. Nas Jones-The Poetic God's Son in flesh, so illmatic that he finally realizes there is no need to be flossing. His talent just follow

4. Chuck D-Hip Hop true media mouthpiece, Raw, intelligent and analytical.

5. Ghostface- Wu Tang Clan torch barrier. A soul man in a hip hop genre.

6. Talib Kweli-a blue collar MC

7. P. Monch-the talent your favorite MC wish they had

8. Common-before hollywood came calling...a beast

9. Redman-top totch MC with raw undergroud talent.

10. Black Thought-the embodiement of Mcing


I love Africans, but HATE the N-gger in YOU!!!

I like this list a lot. As far as lyrical talent goes, you nailed it.

Respectable list...mines...

No real order...

Rakim
Ghostface
Big Daddy Kane
J-Live
Monch
Nas
Black Thought
Masta Ace
KRS One
Doom

Peace!

you guys love Ghostface, Doom and J live on this site..lol

The gift and curse: He's the greatest of all time now

When you become your own biggest competition then that's sayin something.

it's been repeated enough that nas has had disappointing "albums" and all i hear is "he didn't have a mainstream single that banged in the clubs and in the car like other top rappers do"

nas is not jay or ye or snoop...and they damn sure ain't nas.

monster singles don't cover up all the weak ass albums that most of his peers have been putting out.

I remember when early 90s hipsters hopped off Nas joint and chased street dreams with Jay. Kinda weird since they hated Nas for everything Jay embodied. Wonder was it Jay love or really Nas hate.
He wasn't their lil ghetto secret anymore. They couldn't wait til 99/00 came around to spring Illmatic in niggas faces cause they were on "aother level". Nas switched his style and played them hoes and they've hated him since.

>"he didn't have a mainstream single
>that banged in the clubs and in the car like other top rappers
>do"

he did have a mainstream single that banged in the clubs and in the car like other top rappers do, though it wasn't very much liked by hip-hop listeners when it dropped...which is why I find that very funny.

Nas has had a number of mainstream singles, which if you think of the kind of rapper he is that's really funny

"pound for pound" without peer.

Challenger-

Rakim or KRS?

It makes no sense to me.

Rakim essentially fell off by not rapping. KRS fell off after, like, 8 or 9 consecutive good and successful albums.

Nas never *really* fell off only because of hype machine bullshit and lowered standards that didn't exist when Rakim, KRS, Kane, LL and them were building the house for Nas to inherit.

That doesn't even mention artists like Biggie (with much smaller output) and Jay-Z (with much bigger output) that have so much greater impact. Even artists like Common came up at the same time and have had a higher quality output than Nas. Then you have artists like Q-Tip/ATCQ who have discographies that have about 5X as many hits, 4X as many good albums, and are just better in every way.

I don't get it. He doesn't have the music to back up his Top 5 / GOAT hype. It's all about "Illmatic." There's nothing else.

He'll retire with a really good greatest hits album. So will De La Soul, Mobb Deep, UGK, Too Short, E-40, Naughty By Nature, Scarface/Geto Boys, Ice Cube/NWA, EPMD, Snoop Dogg, Gang Starr, and Busta Rhymes.

As a matter of fact.... almost all of those Greatest Hits albums would be better than Nas's Greatest Hits album. What would be on Nas's Greatest Hits album if "Illmatic" had been shelved?

Shit. Even artists like Rick Ross and T.I. and 50 Cent have dropped albums in the past several years that are lightyears better than any single album that Nas has dropped since 1996. And they've had far more hits.

Nas gets a severely weighted grade because of Illmatic.

>Rakim or KRS?
>
>It makes no sense to me.
>
>Rakim essentially fell off by not rapping. KRS fell off
>after, like, 8 or 9 consecutive good and successful albums.
>
>
>Nas never *really* fell off only because of hype machine
>bullshit and lowered standards that didn't exist when Rakim,
>KRS, Kane, LL and them were building the house for Nas to
>inherit.
>
>That doesn't even mention artists like Biggie (with much
>smaller output) and Jay-Z (with much bigger output) that have
>so much greater impact. Even artists like Common came up at
>the same time and have had a higher quality output than Nas.
>Then you have artists like Q-Tip/ATCQ who have discographies
>that have about 5X as many hits, 4X as many good albums, and
>are just better in every way.
>
>I don't get it. He doesn't have the music to back up his Top
>5 / GOAT hype. It's all about "Illmatic." There's nothing
>else.

Here is where I'll stop you. "It Was Written" was also an excellent album. I think part of the mystique of Nas is that he has this plethora of unreleased or leaked tracks that is more legend than fact. It's his gift and curse. He has the undeniable rap ability but sometimes lacks the ability to craft complete albums.

And lets be real about it. EVERY rapper has unreleased songs, but they aren't talked about or leaked like Nas songs. Most of the stuff in the vaults are garbage, but Nas does have some good stuff mixed in there too.
>
>He'll retire with a really good greatest hits album. So will
>De La Soul, Mobb Deep, UGK, Too Short, E-40, Naughty By
>Nature, Scarface/Geto Boys, Ice Cube/NWA, EPMD, Snoop Dogg,
>Gang Starr, and Busta Rhymes.
>
>As a matter of fact.... almost all of those Greatest Hits
>albums would be better than Nas's Greatest Hits album. What
>would be on Nas's Greatest Hits album if "Illmatic" had been
>shelved?

I think this is where the unreleased stuff comes to play. "Understanding" is one of the most known unreleased Nas tracks, but it stands along side of his best songs. Unfortunately he hasn't had the ability or really the desire to recompose these songs. Ghostface has the same problem, but still somewhere along the lines a tweaked version is created for the album, or the sample is changed.

>
>Shit. Even artists like Rick Ross and T.I. and 50 Cent have
>dropped albums in the past several years that are lightyears
>better than any single album that Nas has dropped since 1996.
> And they've had far more hits.
>
>Nas gets a severely weighted grade because of Illmatic.

for real, you just typed up a whole bunch of bullshit.

What's worse is that everybody he mentioned in that list of artists that "outcompete Nas" are outspoken Nas fans !

That's what I think.

Whoopdee fucking do.

Grow some balls, will ya?

You were joking right?

Tribe had 4 times as many hits as Nas? Maybe in your headphones, but not by any other measure. And Tribe is my favorite group ever, but why just make shit up like that? 4 times? Lol.

Lol at 50 Cent albums being better than Stillmatic or Lost Tapes. Not even a discussion there.

I'm not sure what to make of your greatest hits album claim. Are you counting your personal favorite songs as hits? That's what it seems like based on your Tribe/Tip claim. Because if so, I'll say that Nas has recorded more good songs than any other rapper ever. Or are you talking about actual hits based on charts and shit? In which case, Nas still beats out a lot of the cats you listed.

>Lol at 50 Cent albums being better than Stillmatic or Lost
>Tapes. Not even a discussion there.

Yes. I think that GRODT and The Massacre were better albums than anything Nas dropped since IWW. Lost Tapes is a bit arguable, but that was a compliation of tracks scattered over a few years. Doesn't matter considering ever 'album' Nas dropped in the surrounding years were duds.

>I'm not sure what to make of your greatest hits album claim.
>Are you counting your personal favorite songs as hits? That's
>what it seems like based on your Tribe/Tip claim.

No. I'm talking about hits. The songs you'll drop where everyone knows the words or at least people recognize the beat the moment it drops.

>Because if
>so, I'll say that Nas has recorded more good songs than any
>other rapper ever.

I disagree very, very strongly.

>Or are you talking about actual hits based
>on charts and shit? In which case, Nas still beats out a lot
>of the cats you listed.

As far as hits on charts, Nas hasn't really done much.
http://www.billboard.com/#/artist/nas/chart-history/36620
Most of the songs on here I don't even like. "Hate Me Now," "You Owe Me," "I Can," "Nastradamus," and "Bridging the Gap" are not songs that I enjoy listening to. "Street Dreams" was cheap as hell, "Hip Hop Is Dead" used the same beat as a far superior song he'd just released, and "Got UrSelf A Gun" was a turd compared to the undeniable hits that Jay-Z was dropping at the time. And it's not like any of these songs charted high anyway...

you're talking about.

:)

LL COOL J 1)

2Pac 2)

Rakim 3)

Scarface 4)

KRS One 5)

Snoop Dogg 6)

Ice Cube 7)

Biggie 8)

2Pac 9)

KOOL Moe Dee 10)


then you can argue that

Lil Wayne 11)

Jay Z 12)

Eminem 13)

Kayne West 14)



and if we include group leading MC's well

Run

Andre 3000

Chuck D

please explain.

my badd on that. was thinking of my list of cats and i accidently had pac on there twice. thing was i was posting off the top of the dome and thinking of MC's to go back on how I had Nas in the 11-19 range.

my badd on that.

Listen, I can't argue with anyone who will toss Nas in their top 20 rather than top 5. I can see arguments both ways.

I CANNOT see how ANYONE would put Wayne above Nas on any kind of MCs list. Nor JayZ, but at least a somewhat, semi, half-assed, decently reasonable argument can be made for Jay being a better MC than Nas.

There is no way in HELL any reasonable music fan could say that Lil Wayne is a better MC than Nas. No fucking way.

I can't let this slide. I will not let this slide. Change your list.

Lil Wayne ain't no rapping spring chicken and obviously he is talking and goes beyond his own audience and interestingly while Nas is better lyricist than Weezie though in Weezie world his fans will tell you nobody comes up with the stuff he does, etc.. you take the lyrics and MC'in is subjective and Objective IMO what exactly makes Nas better than Lil Wayne?

Weezie has outlasted him and lets remember when things first jumped off for Weezie he wasn't even in the starting lineup like that and see where he commands things now so don't think its that crazy to see Lil Wayne above dude and whatnot.

your Boy Wayne is doing something right and we are talking a decade plus meanwhile if we are being honest and taken the east coast and legendary status honors out of the mix, then your Boy Nas ain't counted in a decade and that is being kind.

put it like this I can't see Nas making another impactful album or bringing the hype and he certainly hasn't lasted as interesting to ears as Lil Wayne has regardless if you agree or not.

Saying Wayne has outlasted Nas might make sense if Wayne came on the scene at the same time as Nas.

Saying Nas hasn't counted in more than a decade is flat out wrong by any measure.

I don't know why you try to measure this shit like you're an A&R or something, anyway.

But think about this....you're saying Waynes been doing it for a decade plus. But acting like Nas hasn't counted at all since the 90s? Word? Block is Hot era Wayne was running shit, but Stillmatic Nas didn't count?

let me see Nas's 10nth year in the business he didn't set the world on fire now did he? meanwhile tha Carter 3 took him to a whole different level.

Nas is a Better lyricist, but beyond that he hasn't been able to keep things going as Weezie has.

Nas was happening for a good while in the 90's and hit and alot of miss in the 00's til now.

meanwhile Weezie been steady getting more juice over time.

acting like Weezie ain't had been on the pulse and ran things isn't being fair and I ain't even feeling Wayne like that, but he stays on the grind and his music brand has gone further than Nas's has. Nas never dominated the way Weezie has.

i had this very conversation with cats over the weekend and while Nas gets much respect, Weezie is like the Blob and he has ran dude over.

they didn't have to come out at the same time,however they are both 90's acts and in truth they are about 3-4 years part from the time they debuted on the scene so they are in the same neighborhood in that regard and Wayne has been more consistant with his.

Nas 10 years in....was going double platinum with Stillmatic and kicking Jay's ass in one of the most high profile battles ever. So I don't know what you're talking about there. Nas has been a relevant name in hip hop for 20 years....Wayne is not even close to that yet. So I don't agree with that outlasting stuff at all.

And you're saying they came on the same 3-4 years apart? Nas was on the scene in 91. Wayne came out in 94-95? I don't think that Hot Boys shit was out until like 97-98, but I could be wrong. What I know I'm right on is that Nas came right out the gates as one of the best in the game, in an era with a lot more competition. Nobody gave a fuck about Wayne until like 2004, and he was one of the wackest out of his own crew before that. BG and Juvie were considered the better rappers out that crew. Wayne was to them what Nature was to Nas.

Waynes going on like 7 years of being considered good. Yeah, Nas doesn't have the pop hits. I don't think that was ever his aim either though. Wayne ain't higher in any list than Nas because he put out a gay ass rock album and got the Beckys on his dick. That stuff holds zero weight with me when making a greatest hip hop list.

and Nas wanted Pop love, think about all the cross duets he has had over the years?

all he has on Weezie is being a Better lyricist, other than that Lil Wayne has matched him.

last i checked both acts were on major labels and both were going for the same overall charts, etc..


Nas in 04 wasn't seeing nobody.

50 cent was running thangs.

before that it was Ja Rule.

before that it was Nelly and DMX.

Nas was just another cat in doing a Meow. the 90's was his time.

he would admit as much.

and there's a reason for it that doesn't have anything to do with Nas

Why don't you elaborate.

and Nas reached that a long time ago

And yeah...I have two ties...So sue me...Shit was tough...




1.Rakim (The MC who set the bar for all to come...Took the baton from Melle Mel and never looked back)

2.Jay-Z (He wins with his longevity folks...He's making it cool for a 40 year old MC (the death knell age range for most MC's)to compete with the Drakes of the world...Like Run-DMC, Jay has made hip-hop a viable "touring genre"...This is shocking considering that Jay early on had the stage presence of a dish rag...His impact is hard to ignore...)

3. Nas (He's the Rakim for the third generation of hip-hop fans...He raised the bar for his peers...They chased him...They wanted to be him...Not to mention Nas made quite possibly the greatest diss record of all time and took on the most powerful rapper in the game and more than survived...He was celebrated...)

4. KRS-One (His longevity is equaled only by LL and Jay-Z....Kris kills you in all areas...from the stage to lyrical concepts to socially conscious statements to straight up battle records...He did it all...The most well-rounded MC in hip-hop history...)

5. Biggie/Scarface (Tied)----(Biggie's time on this earth was short...But I compare his artistic and cultural impact to say Jimi Hendrix...He was so great that he shifted the culture, business and art of MCing...Suddenly it wasn't enough to be just a great MC...You had to be lovable, charismatic, commercial and DOPE...That was Biggie...No, he's not no. 1 like many tap him to be...But he was GREAT...)

Scarface? (The father of southern MC's who was the Rakim for a lot of kids coming up in that region...All you have to do is listen to the Diary album to figure it...No one rhymed about death, pain and redemption as eloquent as Face...NO ONE....)

6. LL Cool J...(The man that built Def Jam, the most important hip-hop label of all time...He is the template for the solo MC...He has so many first I would be here all day...But the most impressive one besides his enduring ability to stay in the game for close to two decades? He showed that you could indeed make a comeback in hip-hop...Who knew?)

7. Ice Cube (No need to explain...Dude could make a million Are We There Yets and that still would wipe out his immense legacy...He wrote those rhymes for NWA folks...And I'm talking about classic NWA...Then dude flipped the script and made quite possibly the greatest 1-2 punch of albums in hip-hop (Amerikkka's Most and Death Certificate)....Just wow...)

8. Andre 3000 (I don't care if he's part of a duo...we know how underrated Big Boi is...We know he deserves praise...But Dre? Let's be clear...Dude simply changed the whole template for what a great MC is, especially for southern MCs...Scratch that...Three Stacks transcended labels...At times his wordplay borderlined on genius...)

9. Pac (No he wasn't better than your favorite "lyrical" MC...But no one could pull the emotion out of a song like Pac....You felt it--good or bad....You cheered him...You denounced him...You mourned him...He was larger-than-life...More rock & roll than hip-hop...)

10. Chuck D/Slick Rick (Tied)---(again...no need to write a novel here...Listen to It Takes A Nation and watch some of those PE tours from the late '80s and early 90's and get back to me.....Slick Rick? He's still the most effective storyteller of all time...It's not even a debate...)




I didn't have BDK in my top 10...But that's only because there's a shit load of MC's that get the nod before him...Not an indictment of Kane...As for the 150 pound White Boy in the room? Well, I would not be mad if someone had Eminem in their top 10...But I wouldn't have him top 5....Also, Melle Mel is another MC that deserves a mention...He def. has Top 10 chops...But he's the odd man out unfortunately...

Redman is easily in the convo....(In fact, he's no. 11, but that's another list)....

Thats one of the best Top 10's and reasons for the pics I have ever seen. I might slide BDK but thats just me. Thats a dope breakdown and I agree for the most part. Good shit homie

i can relate and i would switch a few folks and whatnot but overall that is a good list. right on!

Yep, I said the same thing.

Should get its own post and an anchor.

when he's going off he's untouchable - a quality of any MC in the top 10.

To me it's

#1: Jay
#2: Rakim
#3: Big
#4: KRS
#5: Nas
#6: Pac
#7: LL
#8: Eminem
#9; Ice Cube
#10: Big Daddy Kane

IN my list IM considering the whole package..catalog and body of work, influence, skill, and style are all mixed into my final verdicts.

Thats a damn good top 10

But in terms of quality, you got an excellent
overall list

----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Big's catalog is not long, but his other attributes such as impact, influence, flow and style is so high that it balance everything out in his rating..

Kinda like how you can be a 9 in shooting, passing, rebounding and a 7 in dunking and still be a rated 9 player..all those 9's and one 7 won't bring you down to 8...

And on the other end of the spectrum Big Daddy Kane, skill and flow wise for his time is arguably #1 over everybody..but his overall catalog over the long haul averaged him below his successors like Nas, Jay, Big, Pac..ect, Or knock a G.Rap or a Slick Rick out of the top 10 all together...

Then you got a KRS who's output from the mid 90's onward is not on the level of his previous stuff, but his golden era output is so UNDENIABLY classic to the genre that it puts him up there.

But yeah.. glad cats feeling the list..

That nigga made me wanna rap!

Nas is the prototypical rapper he is what Dan Marino was to qbs to the rap game in his case beat selection and overall song crafting seem to equal Dan never winning a sb in my eyes
The good thing is nas can solve his only problem by simply acknowledging it most rappers aren't that fortunate

By problem I meant he can assemble a well produced album with great songs as long he isn't retired which he isn't. So I'm hoping on that next LP

If the twilight movie was the best-selling movie of the year, does it make it suck less? The same with rap and really all other art for that matter. I'm picking Nas as the best rapper based on the fact that he raps better than anyone else (it's that easy). Not to say that Nas hasn't had impact, legacy, sales, swag, and you, but none of that shit is important when you measure who the best MC is. One could guess that Joseph Ducreux was probably an hilarious, entertaining, and maybe even swagtastic individual. But he is not considered by anyone anywhere to be the greatest artist or even greatest portraitist of all time (GPOAT).

So yeah. If we're gonna measure by any other standards than how good the MC is at MCing, get out of the posts about how good an MC is. I'm not gonna measure anything else. I know it's hard to separate an MC from these things, ESPECIALLY impact and legacy, because the OG pioneers and the memories of their hip hop are still around and deeply etched in the nostalgia part of many okps' brains, BUT all of these things are simply not rapping.

Now if the post title said, "Where does Nas rank on your list of most influential MC's," or "MC's with the most important legacy," or "MC's who pick the best beats and make the best albums and don't do silly-ass pop shit out of left-field every few years," then I can see where some of you are coming from.

I feel you and its that simple to me also..


Great Debate my people...up this

Top 20..lol..name 19 MC's better..lol..5-6 MC's better ..ok...19...ok Fam..

i rate consistency where Nas lacks, I rank beat selection which nas definitely lacks in

Jay-Z
Doom
Q-Tip
Busta
Ghostface

all of whom have stronger catalogs than Nas

Busta.................


Rhymes?

They are both single rappers for the most part.

Busta just doesn't put together good albums. Generally speaking, neither does Nas, but the main difference is Illmatic & IWW. And honestly, Busta doesn't even have a record as good as Stillmatic, but Busta has better singles. Nas has never had a single on the level of "Woo-Hah..." or "Put Your Hands..." Busta is also better on crossover guest spots.

Singles: Busta >>> Nas
Albums: Nas >>> Busta

>Singles: Busta >>> Nas
>Albums: Nas >>> Busta

I love busta but I disagree. Busta has a load of weak singles. Touch It, Arab Money, Gangsta Muzik, I Know What You Want, .. a few others. He does have a fairly strong single discog though!

If Nas career is a "LOST" I'm sure 1000000 MC's wish they lost also. Nas Top 10 MC. There is no serious list of MC's if he isnt in the top 10 if you add his albums and about 120 unreleased songs. (many being good to great songs)...In my opinion anyway

& people forget that nas doesn't even showcase all of his ability throughout his albums. verses like the carter iv interlude and that backwudz joint shows dude can hang even with any kind of flows. i used to not care too much for nas on that 2x flow, but nowadays he's KILLING that shit.

dude's growth as an artist, i'd say at least, is uncanny.

peace.

Dude made the greatest hip hop album ever, one very good one and then just kept making one scatter-shot album after another. His career just seemed to lose focus after Illmatic.

ahead of him....starting w/

1.Pac (how can it not be him, seriously)


1a.KRS ONE (the only area where he comes up short vs other great MCs is commercial success and we all know why that is)


3.LL Cool J (could honestly make a legit argument that he's the "GOAT")


4.Rakim (he's still thee most stylistically important MC)


5.Ice Cube (his early success makes him worthy of such a high ranking)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


6.Jayz (has had the most commercially successful career of any MC....and he's still going...may have to revisit this one day and change his position)


7.Big Daddy Kane (had it all as an MC/great lyricall skills/excellent performer/tight songs/highly influential on a lot of MCs who came after him)


8.Eminem (never loved ANY of his overrall albums but no one can deny he deserves to be mentioned amongst the all time great MCs)


9.Nas (his career has ebbed and flowed a bit...and yet maybe still the only one on my list who can boast of having *2* CLASSIC records...Illmatic/Stillmatic...at Nas' best he's an MC's MC)


9A.Lauryn Hill (that's right, I said it! she can hang w/ANY MC on this list in any measure....lyrics/flow/great songs/freestyling/performing)

11.Scarface (the voice, the deep lyrics...the precursor to Pac as far as MCs being introspective and revealing internal personal demons)

Big Daddy Kane is not better than Nas.

success, live performer, being innovative, influence....Kane is better, no question.


>Big Daddy Kane is not better than Nas.

Live Performer=Yes
Influence=Good Debate


Success......ummm....NO SIR...what are you talking about?

Commercial....again...NO SIR...what are you talking about?

BDK is better on stage...no debate there

Nas=better LP's, better songs, bigger overall commercial impact, longer as a relevant MC. Kane relevant 88-93 (about 5-6 years but is respected now and can perform still) Nas 1993-Present (peak 1994-2002..about 8 years)

Kane=better flow
Nas =better lyrics

Kane=more natural talent .. (maybe)
Nas..overall a better Hip Hop Legend 2 me...

>Live Performer=Yes

>Influence=Good Debate
"He is widely considered to be one of the most influential and skilled MC's in Hip Hop."

Big Daddy Kane is regarded as one of the most influential and skilled golden age rappers. MTV put him at *No. 7* in their Greatest MCs Of All Time list, he is placed at *No.4* in Kool Moe Dee’s book There's A God On The Mic: The True 50 Greatest MCs, {and RZA lists him as one of his Top 5 best MCs.} Allmusic says, “his best material ranks among the finest hip-hop of its era, and his sex-drenched persona was enormously influential on countless future would-be players”, and describes him as, “an enormously talented battle MC”, “one of rap's major talents”, refers to his, “near-peerless technique” ” and “first-rate technique and rhyming skills” and says he “had the sheer verbal facility and razor-clean dexterity to ambush any MC and exhilarate anyone who witnessed or heard him perform”. Kool Moe Dee describes him as “one of the most imitated emcees ever in the game” and “one of the true greatest emcees ever”, and Ice-T says:

"To me, Big Daddy Kane is still today one of the best rappers. I would put Big Daddy Kane against any rapper in a battle. Jay-Z, Nas, Eminem, any of them. I could take 'Raw' right now and put it up against any record . Kane is one of the most incredible lyricists… and he will devour you on the mic. I don't want to try to out-rap Big Daddy Kane. Big Daddy Kane can rap circles around cats".



>Success......ummm....NO SIR...what are you talking about?

the thing with a lot Nas' commercial material according to his most ardent die hard fans is that Nasir seemed to be deviating from his musical standard he set w/Illmatic, which was wasn't a commercial success AT ALL, when he started making the material that was getting radio airplay. His best albums, w/the exception of 'Stillmatic,' weren't really commercially successful....

>BDK is better on stage...no debate there
>
>Nas=better LP's, better songs, bigger overall commercial
>impact, longer as a relevant MC. Kane relevant 88-93 (about
>5-6 years but is respected now and can perform still) Nas
>1993-Present (peak 1994-2002..about 8 years)

fam, Nas career hit a serious slump in the eyes of many post Illmatic. Sure, the CDs after Illmatic had some dope tracks on them and they did move units but as far as the overall albums they were far from his best material...which is why many regard the beef w/Jay as resurrecting his career. So that timelime you laid out doesn't tell the whole story. There were equally as many misses as there were hits in his discography during that time period.
>
>Kane=better flow
>Nas =better lyrics
>
>Kane=more natural talent .. (maybe)
>Nas..overall a better Hip Hop Legend 2 me...

nope, I disagree...and the above paragraph I posted w/various (legendary) MCs declaring Kane's place in the pantheon of great HipHop MCs begs to differ w/your assessment of which of the two is more of a HipHop legend...I love Nas and although I think Kane's flow and lyrics were incredible and innovative, I'd still lean towards Nas as far as overall lyricism...but just abt every other metric we used to measure MCs makes me favor Kane as being slightly better, overall.

Also peep this:

"Kane is known for his ability to syncopate over faster hip hop beats, and despite his asthmatic condition he is acknowledged as one of the pioneering masters of fast-rap. His sense of style is renowned and set a number of late-1980s and early-1990s hip hop trends **(high-top fades, velour suits, and four-finger rings)**. The backronym "King Asiatic Nobody's Equal" is often applied to his moniker."

I can appreciate your stance my G. Everything you said make sense. Just good old Hip Hop debate..lol..As for BDK, he is one of the best MC's of all time and a real cool dude just off meeting him a few times when I lived in Durham, NC. He had/has all of the skills...dont get me wrong

that Nas deserves to be ranked above Kane...and the fact that Nas' career isn't over means that when its all said and done that he could unanimously be considered the better MC of the two...

I just think Kane was a complete MC...

Nas, on the other hand, has ALWAYS been one of the best lyricist to ever grip a mic but when he 1st came on the scene he was a LOUSY LIVE PERFORMER (I actually remember him getting booed in Atl. back in 96 because he was so bad and boring)...he has gotten a lot better over the yrs as it relates to his live performances (much like his contemporary Jayz)...and he did go back to making quality meaningful music once he went through his phase of trying to make radio friendly music.


>I can appreciate your stance my G. Everything you said make
>sense. Just good old Hip Hop debate..lol..As for BDK, he is
>one of the best MC's of all time and a real cool dude just off
>meeting him a few times when I lived in Durham, NC. He had/has
>all of the skills...dont get me wrong

>he has gotten a lot better over the yrs as it
>relates to his live performances (much like his contemporary
>Jayz)...

Yep. I saw Nas/Damien Marley last year and they were great. You may say "well that has a lot more to do with Damien than Nas" but Nas brought a lot of raw energy to his performance and I thought they both killed it.

and he did go back to making quality meaningful music
>once he went through his phase of trying to make radio
>friendly music.

Yep. Stillmatic and onward he's been pretty great, IMO. Some misses in there don't get me wrong but he stopped blatantly pandering to radio which has been refreshing.

Especially when considering who is the greatest rapper of all time, or one of. Are we trying to measure technical capability or body of work? Is it a combination of both? Which one is more important? What makes an MC "technically" great?

Technical ability, Nas top 5.

Body of work related? Maybe top 25.

I would like to see you name 24 rappers with a better body of work as a solo MC...

lol..I'm still waiting for a list of 24 MC's with a better body of work. If you said 10...I could live with that...24 GTFOH with that BS my G...

I was agreeing with you wholeheartedly.

lol...nah...I was agreeing with you also. I just replied under yours playa...we are on the same page

How much does he pay you guys monthly for these polls?

He is good, yet beat deaf, boring cadence, also Rakim summed up Nas career in Paid In Full.

(Meaning, Rakim said everything Nas said first and better...)

Rakim for the win.

Nas ranks in my Top 30, poor live performer.

Too bad his Lost Tapes were not sold to masses for help his cause.

That is all.

Rakim is the standard but Jordan passed Dr. J....Magic passed Jerry West etc..etc..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffDDbEJAEIg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wo97R0ib1CE

"nas is lazy" "nas lost"

wowww

hip hop is not supposed to be this good in 2011

Nas won





www.facebook.com/phenixbeats

Yep, Nas is still RAW.