I'm not talking Big and Pac.

I'm not talking Big L getting killed before he signed to the Roc or Pun eating one too many Philly Cheesesteaks.

Basically, it's not as serious as death because I think we'd all agree those are tragedies that are bigger than the music.

The Wu-Forever post reminded me of the tragedy that brought this post to mind.

and I'll put up that Deck's official solo getting ruined in the flood leading to him never getting a proper RZA-produced solo during the first string of classics is one of the, if not the biggest tragedy in hip-hop.

Deck gets very little love when talking about the all-time best and that is largely due to the fact that he never dropped an album worthy of more than 3 mics.

There was very little to go wrong for the Wu between 93-97 so I'm sure all Deck would've had to do was show up and do what he does best and leave the rest to RZA.

instead, his album get ruined, he gets pushed back, doesn't drop a solo until 99 and the rest is history.

I mean, I don't think this man has ever spit a bad verse and has NEVER been out-shined on a track he was featured on. not to mention, he has the best verse, without question, on the 2 biggest Wu songs of all-time.

CREAM - killed

Triumph - killed

Guillotine - killed

Duel of the Iron Mic - killed

Assassination Day - killed

Tru Master - killed

Above The Clouds - killed

Tres Leches - killed

the list goes on.

so what are some other Hip-Hop tragedies that got in the way of Hip-Hop greatness?

Neither Andre 3k or Common has been the same since.

Especially since it's not even a joke and is 100% true.

Yeah DECK is an amazing lyrical MC...dope Flow as well...I always wished he would have dropped at least one 4.5 to 5 mic LP with proper production so people could truly see his talent...Tragedy

*smh*

Man you hit that on the head. If "I Am" would have dropped as a Double Disc with those Lost Tapes tracks and other unreleased tracks there would have been no Nastradamus and he would pretty much be the best MC of the late 90's with little to no debate

here.

Theoretically, that woulda turned the tide of hip-hop completely. You think Jay-z woulda had the guts to go after Nas like he did if he woulda been ridin high off of the success of a Proper I AM, as oppossed to the critical disappointment of Nastradamus?

biggest tragedy by far......




Yeah, yeah, I know, BUT I'M NICE, THOUGH!!! http://www.myspace.com/shazmusic

so nice, should read about it, EVERY-DAY!!!
http://shazmusic.blogspot.com/

Nas had a wealth of actually GOOD material from the late '90s that would have made a respectable album back then.

I dunno who the hell to blame, Nas himself, Columbia, or his exec producer, but I think major labels fucked up w/the "rearranging the commercial product when it was bootlegged" move. bootlegging ain't NOWHERE near as bad as it is now.

a lot of GOOD albums were ruined by that "rush new product" crap.

it's definitely a tragedy that he couldn't release the album he was supposed to during one of/the best point in his career as an MC, and which would have certainly cemented his status as top 90s MC.

But then it might never have been the case that news of Nas album still elicits so much attention in 2011, and i'm glad hip hop still has him around today.





I don't let the pain burn too much.

dude was a beast on the mic.

DOC was like the Rakim of the West Coast in like 88

<----------- Do the KFC dance.

damn shame that all that talent was silenced.

I feel like dude could have ended up one of the best ever if he hadn't gotten into that accident. Dude's lyrics, flow, and voice were seriously ill.

DOC was the most musically talented of all those guys. People give too much credit to Cube. DOC was the most talented rapper in that whole scene and there's alot of people who don't even know who he is.

'Noone can do it better' is far supreme to any NWA album. I'd put it in the top 5 rap albums ever. The rhyme schemes are incredible. The flows are so intricate. Holds up better than the more image-driven thing Dre was doing with NWA and there's no doubt in my mind about that.

And then you gotta think....a rapper who loses his voice....and then continues to make that kind of contribution to a myriad of acts and time periods. Unbelievable.

I said it here before...but there is no hip hop artist more deserving of an 'unsung' treatment. The whole timeline fits into the format perfectly. Raw talent....promise of a great future....tragedy....behind the scenes influence....redemption. I've tried to mention him here every once in a while and I hope younger people know who he is.

Co-sign pretty much everything you and everyone above you has mentioned about the DOC.

"No One Can Do It Better" will always be in my top 5 as well. I champion it and the DOC any chance I get. He grabbed the torch from Rakim and ran with it without biting. He was meta in a way that wasn't nerdy. He ripped shit up and talked about it and the way he was doing it in a way that hadn't been done quite like that. He had charisma, voice control, and hardly cursed (I don't think he said "fuck" one time.. could be wrong) on that album.. yet it was raw. I mean.. he wasn't trying to come clean like Will Smith or anything.. his vocabulary and grammar was just so expansive and correct yet so street.. From the production to the album cover to the skits to the videos to the singles to the album cuts (even Beautiful but Deadly) to The Grand Finale.. that album is perfection.

Yes it was a tragedy that his voice was ruined and his subsequent solo albums were nowhere near that level, but he made his "one shot" count in a major way by crafting a modern day hip hop masterpiece.

Rhythmic American Poetry

White Bronco.

You can definitely hear a Rakim thing in the DOC's syncopated flows and rhythms. The only cuss I remember from that record is 'lend me a motherfucking ear' which hits so perfectly and effectively. Almost sounds like Dre had to convince him to say that there. I remember using that shit as an edit point for pause mixtapes cause it was so climatic. But other than that...I can't remember any other cusses neither but they might be a couple here and there.

Fact is....I never considered DOC a gangster rapper. I always seen him more as a pure talent without a gimmick and all skills. Partly why I wanna see a bio/unsung thing on him is cause there are alot of things I don't know. You can hear an obvious latino influence in some of his raps...like on 'Funky Enough'. Also some west indian things in different places. I have no idea what his roots are or how that came to be though.

Can't say enough about that record. I'd like to see a complete and thorough explanation of his later contributions as well. Everything is kinda vague. His story needs to be told.

D.O.C. would've probably replaced Ice Cube on "Niggaz4Life" and when Dre switched to Death Row, D.O.C. probably would've had put out the first album on that label before "Chronic" or "Doggystyle" and probably would've been a dope album but of course that never happened cause of his accident.

good choice.

still be able to get on with The DOC still as Dre's right-hand man or would he at Kurupt/Daz level.

It just seems like The DOC suits Dre's early faster beats best but don't know how he'd work with stuff off The Chronic. Even a more laidback song like "The Formula" seems like he's pushing it faster than most rappers would.

DOC would have been the lyrical West Coast king for a Decade

shit woulda been better than hell on earth
had it released in the form it originally was sequenced in
instead, it came out years later and lost the momentum
and with some wack replacements

i forgot that LP leaked...man...mobb and nas were hurt by leaks in late 90's

>i forgot that LP leaked...man...mobb and nas were hurt by
>leaks in late 90's


There weren't too hurt...That was Mobb Deep's first platinum album....

When I listen to the B. Coming, all I think is that this dude wasted the best MC years of his life behind bars. By the time that fourth album came out, the gas tank was empty.

Chappelle could use Beans' life as material for unlimited sketches of When Keeping It Real Goes Wrong.

I know someone who used to be in his circle from around that time and the stories I heard about dude were unbelievable. He cared more than anyone about maintaining his connection to the hood, to a fault it seems.

Isaiah Rider begs to differ.




White Bronco.

without knowing what you were gunna get into, Deck was who i was going to post about. I'd really love to get an insiders reason as to why Deck's proper (meaning Rza produced solo) aint crack until 99 when the Wu flag was damn near burried.

even if it got ruined in the flood, why didn't they re-do it?

when was Deck supposed to be released? After Meth?

why did they just scrap it all together and go onto the other MCs?

Mausenburg never getting to see his time come and delievery the goods

Rakim and Big daddy Kane not being able to re invent themselves in the modern era of hip hop

Snoop and Dr Dre never reaching those heights it seemed they were destiny for.

>Snoop and Dr Dre never reaching those heights it seemed they
>were destiny for.

.

I was a big fan of his early work, so I'm not hating on him. And I will say that he's definitely one of the most charismatic "super-lyrical" dudes out there. Despite that, very little if any of his music is commercially viable. Priority did do him dirty but the Soul On Ice demo + his early 12 inches are still way better than "Rasassination" & all those unreleased projects and mixtapes that he's done. Even if he didn't have label problems it seems like his ego and drinking problem would have derailed him.
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http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/12/us-testosterone-fathers-idUSTRE78B6XP20110912
SMH

should be included.

...the fat rapper of the group murdering somebody during a crime probably got something to do with their album getting shelved, but you would've thought that Seven Shawn could've gotten a solo deal from the same label since he rapped more than John Doe on the majority of the music.

it would have been considered a golden era classic imo.

>it would have been considered a golden era classic imo.

The singles were bangers but overall the album was kinda of odd and uneven. It doesn't compare favorably to "Breakin' Atoms", nor does it measure up to "Midnight Marauders" which helped get the hype for the album rolling.

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http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/12/us-testosterone-fathers-idUSTRE78B6XP20110912
SMH

Not to say it deserved to get shelved for all of that time as it has some gems and is a solid album, but I remember being disappointed when I finally heard it.

Pete Rock/INI's "Center of Attention" was vastly more enjoyable to me if we're talking about dope albums that got the shaft around that same time period.
__
I don't like the beat anymore because its just a loop. ALC didn't FLIP IT ENOUGH!

Flip it enough? Flip these. Flip off. Go flip some f*cking burgers.(c)Kno

Allied State of the National Electric Beat Treaty Organization (NEBTO)

...but it would have been one of the best albums in 96

It's borderline, because they made four great albums before the break-up, but I think they would have thrived and only added to their legend if they'd kept going during the '93-'96 era. They were better equipped than a lot of groups to thrive in that era without switching up their sound. Erick Sermon's production remained top-notch during that period, and I imagine PMD wouldn't have fucked up his flow.

And I've said it before, but I think it's a tragedy because hip-hop never really was quite as fun post-EPMD break-up. It was the first time that hip-hop "died" a little bit to me.

>And I've said it before, but I think it's a tragedy because
>hip-hop never really was quite as fun post-EPMD break-up. It
>was the first time that hip-hop "died" a little bit to me.

to me, EPMD (and their collective) was like what Wu-Tang eventually became in the mid-90s. When I saw the news on Yo! MTV Raps, I was seriously hurt by the news... they were the best collective of rappers back then to me, and they were at the height of their popularity.

For some reason once they broke up both of their careers have went in different directions, at first it didn't hurt Pete's career but definitely did C.L.'s but in the end both aren't at where they would be if they stayed together as a duo longer.

Yeah they got back together almost five years later for one song off of Pete's solo album but then to break up again for another few years until Pete's 2nd solo album, and that cycle continued, but just think how many classic albums we would've gotten from them as a duo.

Also just think, maybe Elektra probably would've released INI & Deda Baby Pa's albums instead of shelving them back then, who knows cause it was a lot of rap artists that were on that label who had strong singles that never had their album released.

Let's list those rappers here who got locked up right when they probably had an underground hit on their hands or an album or even worst the album was done but the label shelved their album cause the rapper or members of a group got locked up.

List them here, reply below.

After Big Noyd got known for being down with Havoc & Prodigy on "Infamous" and getting singed to TommyBoy Records, I think he would've blown up and that he would've had a better debut album than that pieced together EP they released, or either been added as a third member of Mobb Deep when they were working on "Hell On Earth".

This kat had like one dope 12inch making rounds on plenty of mixtapes and mixshows but right when his songs "Too Complex" & "It's Your Life" were blowing up, he got caught out there and had to serve some time in jail which killed his career too early.

"Too Complex": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dL4p9XN0KPg

"It's Your Life": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg8grpa7ntw

I was really excited about him and then... nothing.

*shrugs*

and not... y'know. The other kind.

Unless he's into that, of course. In which case, rock & roll, dude!

smh

The War Report album then became a vehicle for Noreaga to blow up while Capone was mostly relegated to interludes on prison phones.

.

.....could have had a nice long run along side the beatnuts and de la soul

perhaps the most significant blow to the Soulquarians camp.

this is just speculation on my part, but i think it soured Jay Dee from the whole major label situation and drove him even further underground. i know he had big plans to put a lot of people from out here on and that abruptly halted all of that.

i'm not saying they were gonna go platinum or anything (hell, who knows), but with the affiliations/company they kept and the features on that album? with the right push? they coulda sold some serious product. the buzz was there. the album would up in the wrong hands before their label home was solidified and the bootleggers hit them HARD.

If they were alive, these ass-clowns wouldn't have careers.

Jay would be Big's hype man

Wayne would be Pac's mini-me

Kanye would be just a producer

50 would have had problems too

And this emo-rap that's taken over hip-hop...c'mon

1. I didn't make this about deaths in hip-hop because those are obvious answers and go beyond music. Those are tragedies of life. This post is about example like the one I posted originally.

2. Why do people act like if Pac and Big stayed alive things would be different as if they were above the bullshit? They both released some very suspect music in their short careers and started many of the trends we hate which would lead one to believe that they would be right there with whatever was hot.

they were #1 and #2 in the game, depending on whose album was out at the time...

the amount of shine they got, and would have continued to get, would have left those acts in the dark...

as far as "trends", they both seemed to be evolving as artists, so who knows what trajectory their careers might have taken, but at least it would have felt more genuine

I just find it funny that people just assume that Big and Pac would've been here forever to oversdhadow everything else.

Either one of them could've fallen off or went even further into the trends hip-hop heads hate.

it's easy to just say "things would've been different" but no one knows what would've happen.

maybe things would've been different, but why is it so hard to believe they may not have been?

Dude was trying to do 60 mph on the Audubon.
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http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/12/us-testosterone-fathers-idUSTRE78B6XP20110912
SMH

they changed all of the music and made it corny for the most part.

>they changed all of the music and made it corny for the most
>part.

posthumous releases.

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http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/12/us-testosterone-fathers-idUSTRE78B6XP20110912
SMH

Already mentioned, D.O.C.'s accident, leaving him voiceless.

Mos Def's forays into rock.

Ice Cube and Common going pop/Hollywood.

Mobb Deep and M.O.P. signing to G-Unit.

Anyone signing to Puffy after the Ma$e/LOX era.

Tribe's internal struggles. Seems silly on the outside looking in, though I know it's not so simple.

Nas spending his prime flirting with commercial appeal.

Outkast's label politricks after proving they can sell, going diamond.

The first two on this flyer

http://bamalovesoul.com/2011/09/19/black-star-mos-def-x-talib-kweli-this-winter-unreleased-2001-album/

I think the BT solo jawn got folded in with Phrenology, but why has there not been a second BlackStar album?

and another five years between Moment Of Truth and The Ownerz. that's two more Gang Starr LP's we missed out on. RIP Guru. Fuck them both for that though.

In 2000 Guru released "Jazzmatazz: Streetsoul (aka Jazzmatazz vol.3) and a year later he put out his 2nd Baldhead Slick album "Baldhead Slick & Da Click" which actually had a track produced by Premier and also one by Pete Rock.

But basically he was still making music but not entire albums with Premier but if you were just wanting some Guru joints than right after Gang Starr released "Moment Of Truth" you got those two albums and then him & Premier came together again for "Owners".

There was supposed to be a song with rakim and pharoahe monch.

As I recall that particular era, I want to say that some of the early material slated for the Love Movement project was lost along. The effect of this event I have to think went further to strain the overall Tribe relationship....

If she hadn't gone crazy we might have gottem another classic out of the Fugees, or at least some more quality music.

The group. If X and Ja hadn't beefed, there was potential there for a dope album.

which is odd because i wasn't really a fan of DMX OR Ja Rule. that one track they did together was banging though.

Time to Build & Murdergram along with It's Murder were all nice. Time to Build may have been the dopest tho.

We would def. be considered one of the best emcees not just from the south, but in hip hop period.

<----------- Do the KFC dance.

.

Rass Kass not being committed enough or too drunk!

Canibus just being Canibus!

Latifah abandoning the MIC for bringing the house junk!

Dead Prez trying too hard to be thuggish!

The Class of '86: Kane, Rakim & Krs-One not hooking up with Primo, Pete, Large Pro or Marley Marl as a unit.

The Firm giving us that trash

Intelligent Hoodlum not living up to this name or just being a hoodlum for real.






I love Africans, but HATE the N-gger in YOU!!!

@ lines 2, 4 and 7

...killed a few days after recording his classic debut verse Scenario Remix ..probably would of had an album out in 93/94 produced by Q-Tip