Lesson revisionism aside, neither of these dudes were what was hot in the streets once they went solo.

Poll question: Who had the more white bread solo career?

Poll result (28 votes) Lionel B.Richie (28 votes) Vote Jeffrey Osborne (0 votes) Vote

(provided that "quiet storm heat" is not a contradiction in terms lol)

Jeffrey osbourne loved his first two albums. vocally anybody calling him white bread lost there Hood pass long ago. the Brother can still Sang.

Lionel B.Richie anybody who knows anything about Music knows his songs and whatnot were in the tradition of what Brother Ray Charles did with versatility.

Stevie B and Billy Ocean would have been better options.

the only issues Jefferey osbourne had was he lacked Musical personality, but in terms of talent and soul he was there.

Jefferey wanted what MJ and Lionel had and he had some run with George duke with him.

interesting thing Jefferey though never went Pop he stayed popular in R&B.

Lionel richie was so great he could out out anything and he was diverse with his music.

i know one thing IMO since the past 35 years ain't nobody else from R&B has made better overall songs than Lionel B.Richie. He is from the Ray Charles school SHO NUFF. and Nuff Said.

i hope this poll goes wood but it won't, it just shows Black loathing because we as Black folks don't all think and react to things the same musically. I give White heads props on here, they don't go back knocking there Musical heroes as we do.

It's a dig at the idea that Lionel Richie's solo career is now being portrayed as something it never was. It's not to discount his song writing ability or anything like that.... but we need to keep this shit real regardless of how we feel about an artist. You don't see me up here trying to turn Ghost Busters into a hood anthem.

*edit*
Just noticed this last line

Dude you did not just post this

"it just shows Black loathing because we as Black folks don't all think and react to things the same musically. I give White heads props on here, they don't go back knocking there Musical heroes as we do."

Come on son
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what is your real agenda but a personal diss at me?

you and the others loss and badly. again don't give Lionel B.Richie no back hand compliment oh he was a great or Good songwriter and then in turn question his Blackness as a Artist??

and the man always had country and Pop in his music from the days with the commodores.

i have commodores albums and I can go deep on this topic not to mention they had gospel songs and Lionel was cut from the Ray Charles school of music making.

Lionel B.Richie is one of the greatest Artists ever and I can Put his catelog up against anybody and not flinch once.

you can't teach Songwriting and making timeless songs that is a gift from God period and the Man got it right.

you can't teach stage pressence because he got that right.

who was on stage at the Michael Jackson Memorial performing "jesus is love" and turned it out? yeah Lionel B.Richie Jr that is who.

i guess next you will question R.kelly,Brian mcknight and Joe's blackness because they all dig and respect Lionel Richie as well?

not all Black folks think the same.

you just made the Klan happy with your thread to diss two Black Soul brothers CONGRADULATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!

My issue isn't who or what you like... it's the way you pick and choose who you give props and for what.

So now because we're talking about Lionel you want to accuse other people of not respect our musical heroes... I mean really Maxxx. How do you really think you can slip a comment like that by without anyone noticing?

When we are on the subject or Prince you're real quick to point out what was or wasn't hot in the hood. Well homie this is where your card needs to be pulled.... because if you can sit here with a straight face and tell me Dancing on the Ceiling, Hello, All Night Long or any other that shit was getting run from the brothers back in the day you are either a good liar or just good at lying to yourself. Anyone here old enough to remember that time knows if you dropped a Lionel Richie track at a black party back then you would have been clowned... and clowned hard. You'd have needed to grab a Prince 12" with the quickness to get the party back on track.

Again, go ahead and love white bread Lionel all you want.... I really don't give a shit. But stop trying to justify the shit with some bizarro logic and revisionist version of the 80s. I know better.... and so do you.
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penny lover, hello and all night long were big around my way.

Lionel got play at my school and so on. commdores stuff through his mid 80's solo stuff he got some love.

sorry if Lionel richie didn't make a movie and portray having a white mother on the screen?

sorry if a follow up movie played on more stereotypes.

FYI you know Prince and Lionel were cool back in the day right? got on stage together and of course the Shelia E Connection.

however we use to pop lock to "all night long" and get the cardboard out.

Lionel had love for quite a while because folks respected the songwriting.

like i said and I ain't stopping you done made Bill Oreilly, the fox network and other Klan Members proud today with this hating post you put up.

be Proud of yourself and a tip of the cap.

we are dealing with 9-11-01 ten years later and all you can do is put down two Brothers to make yourself feel good about music that you prefer more? now that is rich!!!!!!!!!!

Actually I can speak for areas other than my own since I was DJing around the west coast during that time.... Nobody was trying to hear Dancing On the Ceiling man.

>penny lover, hello and all night long were big around my
>way.

They were hits everywhere but that was never the point. If you rolled up to pick up game in the park and started blasting All Night Long on your boom box, what do you the reaction would had been? I'm sure you will try and tell me they all formed a conga line and joined in on the Swahili chant.

>Lionel got play at my school and so on. commdores stuff
>through his mid 80's solo stuff he got some love.
>
>sorry if Lionel richie didn't make a movie and portray having
>a white mother on the screen?
>
>sorry if a follow up movie played on more stereotypes.

Back to you favorite tactic again huh... start throwing a bunch of shit out there to distract from the point at hand. Still doesn't change the fact...... Prince got more play than Lionel among young black folks. I know it hurts but those are the facts.

>FYI you know Prince and Lionel were cool back in the day
>right? got on stage together and of course the Shelia E
>Connection.

What does this even mean? I guess you're trying to say I shouldn't call Lionel's shit white bread because Prince was cool with him... Well wouldn't that mean you should be cool with Prince then?

>however we use to pop lock to "all night long" and get the
>cardboard out.
>
>Lionel had love for quite a while because folks respected the
>songwriting.

It wasn't about respecting song writing... it was about reacting to simple to digest pop songs. Nothing new here.

>like i said and I ain't stopping you done made Bill Oreilly,
>the fox network and other Klan Members proud today with this
>hating post you put up.
>
>be Proud of yourself and a tip of the cap.
>
>we are dealing with 9-11-01 ten years later and all you can do
>is put down two Brothers to make yourself feel good about
>music that you prefer more? now that is rich!!!!!!!!!!

Wasn't you just in that Van Hunt post the other day putting that brother down?

Come on maxxx... do better.
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Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

>Actually I can speak for areas other than my own since I was
>DJing around the west coast during that time.... Nobody was
>trying to hear Dancing On the Ceiling man.
>
>>penny lover, hello and all night long were big around my
>>way.
>
>They were hits everywhere but that was never the point. If you
>rolled up to pick up game in the park and started blasting All
>Night Long on your boom box, what do you the reaction would
>had been? I'm sure you will try and tell me they all formed a
>conga line and joined in on the Swahili chant.
>
>>Lionel got play at my school and so on. commdores stuff
>>through his mid 80's solo stuff he got some love.
>>
>>sorry if Lionel richie didn't make a movie and portray
>having
>>a white mother on the screen?
>>
>>sorry if a follow up movie played on more stereotypes.
>
>Back to you favorite tactic again huh... start throwing a
>bunch of shit out there to distract from the point at hand.
>Still doesn't change the fact...... Prince got more play than
>Lionel among young black folks. I know it hurts but those are
>the facts.
>
>>FYI you know Prince and Lionel were cool back in the day
>>right? got on stage together and of course the Shelia E
>>Connection.
>
>What does this even mean? I guess you're trying to say I
>shouldn't call Lionel's shit white bread because Prince was
>cool with him... Well wouldn't that mean you should be cool
>with Prince then?
>
>>however we use to pop lock to "all night long" and get the
>>cardboard out.
>>
>>Lionel had love for quite a while because folks respected
>the
>>songwriting.
>
>It wasn't about respecting song writing... it was about
>reacting to simple to digest pop songs. Nothing new here.
>
>>like i said and I ain't stopping you done made Bill
>Oreilly,
>>the fox network and other Klan Members proud today with this
>>hating post you put up.
>>
>>be Proud of yourself and a tip of the cap.
>>
>>we are dealing with 9-11-01 ten years later and all you can
>do
>>is put down two Brothers to make yourself feel good about
>>music that you prefer more? now that is rich!!!!!!!!!!
>
>Wasn't you just in that Van Hunt post the other day putting
>that brother down?
>
>Come on maxxx... do better.
>_________________________________
>Reunion Radio Podcasts
>Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance
>
>http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/


you weren't a DJ down south and i was a kid back in the day and quite a few of us jammed to Lionel RIchie in the hood. we liked everybody almost that was happening back then. i use to run house partys and I played thriller all night for grown folks and we partied the whole night off that one album plus Say,Say,Say and your point is?? 1)

oh all night long got much play and much love. dancing on the celing didn't get hardly much love, but it also didn't take away his greatness and his musical importance either. 2)

naw the old tactics because if you are going to call a Brother out then Prince gonna get called out as well musically as well, hiding behind the gernic revolution sound,etc.. and he got Alexender O'Neal almost 30 years later calling him out on his blackness but i ain't going there its too easy, i ain't never heard any member of the commodores or any other musical artist call Lionel Richie out like that in public at that?? 3)

Prince made alot of wonder bread tracks himself Arms of Orion, u got the look, lets go crazy, paisley park, raspberry berry beret, graffti bridge, but it doesn't take away from his importance,though its been many years since its been evident and IMO his music just doesn't hold up as well as lionel Richie's does, but Prince has his place musically and that can't be denied for what he did and he is still a great live performer. 4)

Van Hunt is a Never was and you know better than that, but then again you sing the praises of Ryan Leslie another WHO?? and mind you are talking about cats with no track record of hit songs. Van Hunt doesn't have one song anybody knows and i said he doesn't have half the career of Omarion now what did i say so wrong there again?

i never questioned Van Hunt's blackness i said and maintain he is a Broke Lenny Kravitz and I stand by that.

you on the other hand are trying to hate on a Brother because he was successful in his field.

and mind you Lionel never changed. three times a lady, still, sail on, ole fashion love, lucy, easy, just to be close to you, high on sunshine, heroes are all looking at you sideways and crazy.

and hating on Jeffrey Osbourne? Mayne Please. i knew black folks who got married off "on the wings of love" and Jeffrey never crossed over.

this is self laothing on your part musically and just wrong.

Foxx News is going to Love you.

*rolls eyes*

Maxxx you're full of shit and you know it. Everything you posting in here is on some "look the other way" shit. You go into threads and shit all over the subject time and time again but then get offended if someone says anything against these cats you revere.

You a good brother but you just been on one with this Lionel mess lately... it was way past time you got a taste of truth.

You know damn well Prince had the ear of Young Black America... Lionel was that dude your granny bought you for Christmas. His whole act was aimed right at 80s Regan America...... if you want to maintain any sort of credibility you need to stop trying to rip Prince down for selling out while at the same time riding for Casey Kasem's favorite act.


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Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

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yes they did love lionel down south and you weren't there and don't know as i wasn't out west and wasn't aware of the full scene there.

you forgot about Michael Joe Jackson who had the kids bumping to his music and then there was everybody else, get the historical facts straight becuase it was MJ that lead that wave.

Prince on the screen put it like that and he had songs where he purposely went for cross over and his band etc... all of his minneapolis crew said that long ago man,

bottom line I dug Lionel, Michael,Rick, Prince,Luther,El,Whitney,Janet,Anita, respect for sade and a few others but they were all about crossing over so if you are going to White Bread a couple then you gotta do the whole lot IMO.

i always said that unless your name was Frankie Beverly and Maze or Steve Arrington, then cross over wasn't in your rearview mirror.

you cool Peoples and One of my favorite cats, but your post and thread are wrong on alot of levels because all of our 80's Heroes pulled a Fonzi and jumped the shark and unlike back then and seeing what has happen in Hip-Hop and where music is now, ain't no need to trip because at the end of the day it is Pop Music.


Stevie did it, marvin did it, Smokey did, Kool and the gang, chaka, George Benson, Al Jarreau,Miles davis, Herbie Hancock, i can go on and on.

your way of thinking is stuck in a time warp in the context of even thinking like that in 2011, because nobody cares no more ecept folks holding a musical grudge and again Lionel Richie never changed who he was.

Brother Man worked for a Black Owned and ran company and nobody and I mean nobody knows more about Music making than Berry Gordy JR IMO and if he green lighted you that meant you had the goods period.

Black co Producer in James Anothony Carmichael

and I can go on. Lionel wasn't pigeonhold.

neither was Jeffrey Osbourne.

typical Hatin on cats having success and being diverse when it was there all along.

you can't even disupte the songs i mentioned by the commodores and you don't have a counter arugment against Heroes, still, three times a lady, sail on, easy all cut in the Ray Charles cloth of Country, Pop and R&B

i'm trying real hard to even imagine breaking to 'All Night Long' and i just can't do it.

LOL

and Lionel Richie had us pop locking and bringing out the cardboard to All Night Long as we did to Billie Jean and Ollie and Jerry's Ain't no stoppin us" and other cuts.

i don't remember ever in my life seeing anyone ever breakdance to 'All Night Long' outside of a music video. the idea is absurd.

lol

it had that middle groove where you could freestyle and we had battles off of it in the streets.

we loved that song back in the day. matter of fact the whole family loved some Lionel B Richie.just like Michael Jackson.

sure.

back then we danced and pop locked to a whole lot of things, but all night long had a cool break and groove

mm-hmm.

not everybody's hood was the same.

People break dancing at the Forum while Lionel Richie sang "All Night Long"

of course, it won't really change my stance on the issue at hand. b/c maxxx and i are really talking about ppl breaking to 'All Night Long' in unorganized circumstances. you know, street dancing. not music videos or multi-media entertainment presentations as part of international sporting events.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5UB4q6HApY

Turkey-gobbling parties @ Maxxxy's period !

Hit after hit, grammy after grammy.

it's interesting to hear Lionel on Ne-Yo compositions though

for house goodness:

http://djrsenalsopenhouse.podOmatic.com

ahhh, why the hell not:
www.myspace.com/thedjrsenal
www.twitter.com/djrsenal

than the other stuff he did with George Duke in that era

well, more than either, he's known for the "Woo Woo" Song

(again, unfortunately)

I love a lot of that album but that song was as beige as they come
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>I love a lot of that album but that song was as beige as they
>come

and that one was beiger than even Lionel Richie's music... like, as "dramatic" as they got, when "Hello" comes on, I might rewind the opening instrumental part.

of course it's entered the "ironic musical cue" lexicon so I can't do that in public no more

They all have 80s songs I liked but they were moving pretty far from the style/sound that made me a fan in the first place.

i mean he was never a threat at being a top tier solo artist.

he had a run, but he was never going to be that dude so he adapted to what kept a hit going for him. but it ain't like he was a top tier act to begin with.

Jeffrey Osbourne talented artist and he had a good formula and i dug his first two albums and his hits, nothing more and nothing less, he had a good journeyman career and great voice but lacked that next level it.

again even with LTD who were a high 3rd tier low 2nd tier band no real high expectations.

Lionel Richie always did his thing and never changed he came from the ray charles school of music making a gumbo of styles.

>i mean he was never a threat at being a top tier solo
>artist.

The post was not about Peabo but he did come to mind as an artist whose 80s were much more beige than their 70s material.

>Jeffrey Osbourne talented artist and he had a good formula

I like Osbourne, his voice was/is great. I would probably rate his status as higher than a journeyman, especially if you count the LTD years, but he likely won't be on any all-time great lists.

>Lionel Richie always did his thing and never changed

I admit I have not really thought of Lionel emulating the Ray Charles aesthetic of being able to do any style and be very credible/successful with it. You may be onto something here.

In my opinion, Lionel, Ray Charles and even Stevie Wonder and Michael Jackson all have corny or white bread songs ... but the thing about it is that I still felt (some of) them.

Peabo did basically the same album over and over in the 70s' let your feelings flow was a great R&B track and he had a few others, but he was basically a younger Lou Rawls type of cat that kept a few hits, but was never going to be the next level dude.

i mean he was never going to be Teddy Pendergrass and he wasn't going to be Luther Vandross, but he might give you a hint of both and yet stay in his lane.

oh I dig Jeffrey Osbourne and me saying a journeyman wasn't meant to be a diss its more about his placing in the history of R&B because Journeyman is like high 3rd tier.

he had hits and got a great voice, but he never connected on the personality front beyond a certain audience and LTD to me was a good Wine Cooler Band that had some good stuff, but nothing that is going to get them into a debate with lets say Brick, but more along the lines of the BT Express or Brass construction.


not enough memorable material there and his solo career hit at first and then dropped a bit and then hit a little bit but he was never a serious threat at being in that argument with other cats that were happening back then.

oh yeah Man, long ago by me living down south and also getting into Ray Charles early on in my life I knew what was up and I loved Ray's country material.

i mean he covered a wide range of styles and Ray IMO paid a price and is almost underrated and yet a national musical treasure that is hard to digest in one take, but it makes sense for the simple fact that folks dug him in various genries and yet he didn't dominate one particular time, yet he was respected in the various styles he went in.

fast forward to modern times and that is Lionel Richie because he hit the R&B with the Commodores and then Pop, and then Country with Kenny Rogers, and alabama then in between Jesus is love and he had gospel community respect, he had respect in the funk, R&B, Pop, country, Gospel worlds and the jazz world as well

another act who paid a price for being diverse.

yeah stevie wonder has that, Michael Jackson had that,. all those cats loved themselves some Ray Charles

One person's corny white bread shit is another person's jam.

white bread = obvious cross-over fodder. it's usually relatively bland, when compared to other R&B music or other music made by R&B acts.

i like some white bread shit, myself. like Al Jarreau's 'Moonlighting Theme'.

>white bread = obvious cross-over fodder. it's usually
>relatively bland, when compared to other R&B music or other
>music made by R&B acts.
>
>i like some white bread shit, myself. like Al Jarreau's
>'Moonlighting Theme'.


Indeed (great point)...I like a few songs from "white-bread' era Phil Collins ("One More Night" and the like...)...

So like other folks are saying here, that's not even the issue...

>white bread = obvious cross-over fodder. it's usually
>relatively bland, when compared to other R&B music or other
>music made by R&B acts.

Does making obvious attempts to cross mean that it's bad or poor quality? Thriller, Purple Rain...shit everything on Motown was created to sell to as many people as possible of all backgrounds so does that automatically make them white bread or bland?

>i like some white bread shit, myself. like Al Jarreau's
>'Moonlighting Theme'.

The reason I asked that question is because I think we can forget that mass amounts of Black folks can like some shit that other people might look at as corny or white bread. George Duke, Grover Washington...Smooth Jazz in general is big with a ton of Black audiences so I question the validity of calling this stuff white bread simply because it's not gritty.

>Does making obvious attempts to cross mean that it's bad or
>poor quality?

no.

>The reason I asked that question is because I think we can
>forget that mass amounts of Black folks can like some shit
>that other people might look at as corny or white bread.
>George Duke, Grover Washington...Smooth Jazz in general is big
>with a ton of Black audiences so I question the validity of
>calling this stuff white bread simply because it's not gritty.

'white bread' does not necessarily mean 'bad' or 'poor quality'. it's a descriptor. to say that Lionel's music was white bread doesn't necessarily mean it's bad. it just is what it is. white bread. a lot of ppl love white bread.

everybody knows that. its another veiled attempted to diss Lionel Richie and again nobody can counter and say he didn't always keep a set formula to his songwriting and music making from his days with the commodores.

Sail On, truly, stuck on you, deep river woman covers a whole decade of the R&B Meets Country and Pop theme.

haters can't dispute and have no counter argument except they just don't respect his Greatness and diversity and they refuse to acknowledge him being from the Ray charles school of music making. just as Stevie Wonder and Michael Jackson were from.

>everybody knows that. its another veiled attempted to diss
>Lionel Richie

you obviously love Lionel's music more than many of us around here. that's the end of it, guy. there's nothing else going on.

your praise for the guy's music hasn't increased my appreciation of it. i still hear the same stuff in his music that i heard in the 80s and that i heard last month before you started this tirade.

but, good luck w/it!

don't need to be told how important and great his songwriting is and what his work meant to so many and how he has songs that are timeless and hold up just fine.

and when he leaves this earth, i don't want to hear some of these same haters talking about how diverse or this or that about him, because it is obvious to me how talented and Badd the Brother is.

i never singled myself out, just said you ain't gotta tell me about his musical importance and what his catelog represents for a body of work.

because that is not what i'm about, however the unfair ways that Lionel B.Richie gets dogged as a artist isn't right at all,nobody deserves that especially if they mattered as a artist to begin with. and I'm not talking about some turkey that has shirley temple with a cherry on top drink hits, i'm talking some real hits.

he just gets dogged left and right around here! and this little corner of the Internet is oh so important to the world and to Mr. Richie, personally. it's crucial that the ppl who post here come to see that Mr. Richie's music is everything you say it is.

is that what's going on here?

he has plenty of fans in alot of places that if they saw these haters they would laugh them out of a building.

Lionel is a Soulful brother that is what i know and i maintain that and he never did anything different than what he had been doing as a member of the Commodores. when exactly wasn't he accessible as a songwriter and artist again??

but the music he made in the 80s sucked, IMO. i didn't like it then, i don't like it now.

*shrugs*

>>Does making obvious attempts to cross mean that it's bad or
>>poor quality?
>
>no.
>
>>The reason I asked that question is because I think we can
>>forget that mass amounts of Black folks can like some shit
>>that other people might look at as corny or white bread.
>>George Duke, Grover Washington...Smooth Jazz in general is
>big
>>with a ton of Black audiences so I question the validity of
>>calling this stuff white bread simply because it's not
>gritty.
>
>'white bread' does not necessarily mean 'bad' or 'poor
>quality'. it's a descriptor. to say that Lionel's music was
>white bread doesn't necessarily mean it's bad. it just is
>what it is. white bread. a lot of ppl love white bread.

Come on man..you say to any Black man or woman that they are white bread and it's an insult and it's saying they are sounding, talking, acting or catering to white folks. Next you gonna tell me that calling someone an oreo means that you are saying they are sweet?

i'll give you what you want.

i think most of Lionel's solo output was awful. bland. boring. bad. i no likey. and yes, it's white bread.

now what?

>
>i'll give you what you want.
>
>i think most of Lionel's solo output was awful. bland.
>boring. bad. i no likey. and yes, it's white bread.
>
>now what?

Is it making music that is geared to white folks? Bad or bland music is one thing but I'm curious what you, OP and others equate to being white bread.

>>
>>i'll give you what you want.
>>
>>i think most of Lionel's solo output was awful. bland.
>>boring. bad. i no likey. and yes, it's white bread.
>>
>>now what?
>
>Is it making music that is geared to white folks? Bad or bland
>music is one thing but I'm curious what you, OP and others
>equate to being white bread.


Bland, cheesy, corny bullshit music directly created to sell a shit load of albums to Middle America at the expense of your original audience...

I hope that helps....

I used to think he was and then the older I got and the more I listened to him I really started to dig him. This isn't about Lionel really just more a general question about what constitutes Soul and Blackness in music.

cats don't want to acknowledge artists that are very successful becuase there is a Anti sentiment there and it happen to MJ during his lifetime a whole lot.

you get cats talking about keeping it real and it use to be that way in hip hop(i remember those days) but now a cat like Drake is on some Perry como for hip hip tip and those tired generic thoughts you use to think and feel don't sound right now and also you just know when music is good it is good.

No...because Nat's music was actually good....Hell, I still get chills from Nat's rich vocals on his non-jazz stuff...Greatness is greatness...

>Come on man..you say to any Black man or woman that they are
>white bread and it's an insult and it's saying they are
>sounding, talking, acting or catering to white folks. Next you
>gonna tell me that calling someone an oreo means that you are
>saying they are sweet?



I said quality of the music AND what I (****) view as the levels of ones attempt to gain another audience at the expense of your former audience...

No one is calling anyone an Oreo....That's Maxx's game...If only it could be that simple in an era (the '80s) when everyone was trying to cross over...

The difference musically between say '80s Prince, '80s Rick James, and '80s MJ with '80s Lionel is those other acts managed to expand their audience without the stench of BLATANTLY going for the white middle America....

But even more than that, it's the drop in quality of an artist who wrote "Zoom" and then went on to make "All Night Long" and "Dancing On The Ceiling"....

And yet...that's not even my underlining gripe...It's the hypocrisy of some posters as it pertains to Lionel...

Nothing more...nothing less..

they made that white bread/pandering shit, but still kept their finger on the pulse of Black Music too. they worked both audiences.

Lionel seemed to go full-white-bread. no R&B jams thrown in to appease the Blacks.

take your "L" and bounce like a Burt reynolds Toupe. that song alone and by some considered to be the best song on can't slow down, held it down.

just like serve you right and round and round off the first solo album held it down.

and not to mention countless Commodores cuts that he either wrote or co wrote that were album jams or radio jams that didn't hit held it down.

later Gator.

>take your "L" and bounce like a Burt reynolds Toupe. that
>song alone and by some considered to be the best song on can't
>slow down, held it down.

wasn't enough to buy Lionel a pass in my hood.

i grew up in chocolate citys and when i was in VA the president of the local Black College personally got on stage with Lionel B.Richie and got much love. turkeys in here don't know but Lionel had alot of Richard Pryor Mudbone in him. got the hood love.

you will not be able to rewrite history on this one, pal.

sorry.

better luck next time.

he was a top tier superstar back in the 80's. Jive turkeys acting like i said Eugene Wilde or ZZ Hill? Lionel was a top dawg,DAWG!!!!!!

wrong as usual all those acts were in the same boat, and they all crossed over and reached said audience and changed toward there audience.

Prince made a drastic change and where your contradictions truly stink is i went to the purple rain tour and i saw the 1999 tour and prince totally tried to bring the purple rain film to the stage and had a more cross over audience and the cat took the bass out of his songs,etc.. and played Pop versus R&B radio with his songs on purpose

Rick James when he took the horns and brass out for more keys there was a shift and he got more accessible,

MJ always started off a album first single with a very accessible lead single and then hit you hard on track 2. he played that game.

Lionel went for something familiar and then hit his groove with the 3rd single from a album.

they all played the same game but in a different way and different results.

and the result was Lionel lost favor among Black audiences in ways those other acts didn't.

>and the result was Lionel lost favor among Black audiences in
>ways those other acts didn't.


Indeed....MJ, Rick, and Prince were no fools...They wanted to sell records like everyone else...

The difference is those guys understood that through all of their crossover ambitions and myth creating and personal fixations (i.e. dating white chicks, plastic surgery ect...) they still threw down when they had to...They still understood that "essence" of their sounds...

Rick would give you some corny shit and then drop "Cold Blooded"...

MJ would go totally left on the pop tip and then hook up with Teddy for "Remember The Time"...And Prince could make a commercial album like Batman and still drop slow jams like "Insaiable"...

Again, it's deeper than black/white....It's about understanding why people liked your music in the first place vs. someone (Lionel) going totally white bread and cheesy and never looking back...lol

all of those other acts also fell down the whitewash hole and lost a fair amount of their core Black/R&B audience by the late 80s/early 90s.

he wasn't the only one who went for the ofay-doke. he just did sooner. LOL

>all of those other acts also fell down the whitewash hole and
>lost a fair amount of their core Black/R&B audience by the
>late 80s/early 90s.
>
>he wasn't the only one who went for the ofay-doke. he just
>did sooner. LOL

I agree...but here's the difference....Other than Rick (his downfall was due more to drugs and the rise of Prince) MJ and P were able to re-connect with their black fans in the early '90s...

MJ did it with Dangerous...Prince did it with Diamonds & Pearls...The irony is their "blackness" and authenticity really only started to come into question in the 'hood when Run DMC, gangsta rap and later New Jack Swing allowed young black kids to feel, sound and look like stars without all the excess and crossover baggage...

As you have so rightly said, Lionel never had that problem because he was never going after that young, black demo....

But that's another post....

Lionel didn't have a 90s/00s comeback (to the hood) like MJ and Prince.

and lionel wasn't running a catering business either big difference.

and a bad one sided joke on attack because we could put MJ,Lionel,prince,Luther,Stevie,Marvin(sexual healing and midnight Love could get roasted easily)rick,Freddie J. picking on Jeffrey osbourne is wrong as all get up because most folks in here don't know Jeffrey Osbourne from Tom Osbourne.

anything else would be like trying to make sense of Wesley Willis.

at yourself, because i make sense on this topic. i ain;t the one trying to start a thread for controversy and go platinum with it.

that's right.

i understand.

preferably 1 w/a Slinky. a metal one. the plastic ones break.

or even better, a Lite Brite! i always loved those and this post is taking me back to my Lite Brite days.

V.

>and a bad one sided joke on attack because we could put
>MJ,Lionel,prince,Luther,Stevie,Marvin(sexual healing and
>midnight Love could get roasted easily)rick,Freddie J. picking
>on Jeffrey osbourne is wrong as all get up because most folks
>in here don't know Jeffrey Osbourne from Tom Osbourne.

I know I'll end up regretting this but here's the difference. All those acts you just mentioned (outside of Freddie Jackson) had hood classics to go along with the beige shit. Lionel came right out of the box with an MOR approach. I mean just look at the album cover for god sake.....

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1e/Lionel.jpg

You honestly want me to buy your idea that he was no more MOR than someone like Prince or MJ? Come on Maxxx you can't sell ice to an Eskimo.
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that was a cool look Al Jarreau meets Jack tripper alot of cats rocked that and what does that have to do with the music?

but lets see MJ rocked a tux on off the wall that is very formal.

Prince dressed like Lorene Greene did in Roots and that meant what?

Lionel dressed like a Brother who had a couple of dollars and was getting a good meal why the hate? El Debarge wore something similar on there "all this love" album cover and your point is?

Lionel stayed cool

> that was a cool look Al Jarreau meets Jack tripper alot of
>cats rocked that and what does that have to do with the
>music?

when a dude is dressed like that on the cover? cats don't just show up and wear whatever on an album cover. the cover is going to reflect the audience they want to sell too. There wasn't too much funk coming from dude's dressed in white pants, a mauve shirt and green sweater.


>Lionel dressed like a Brother who had a couple of dollars and
>was getting a good meal why the hate? El Debarge wore
>something similar on there "all this love" album cover and
>your point is?

Yeah he did..... and who were they trying to sell albums too?


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Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

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serve you right the lead off joint was thick on groove and round and round was a cold cut.

they trying to sell to the same audience as anybody else. Lionel's audience was the same as MJ's in case you forgot?? "Hello" Pun intended. same thing as debarge and el.

Michael Jackson took a hit from the hood after thriller and while dangerous came back strong, he was hit and miss with folks until Butterflies. then it was touchy and only in death have i seen this so called lovefest again for MJ. phony turkeys there.

Prince had the slow cuts and folks respected his talent, but in my local barbershop back in 90 cats one saturday were like he needs to retire. he got too self righteious and for quite a few and just wasn't funky no more. folks love the old stuff but they moved on.

Rick James now i dug glow and whatnot but on the real his best stuff went to the mary jane girls after a while and though he kept a few hits, folks moved on.

Lionel Richie Commodore days til can't slow down and folks moved on really.

the songs are timeless but folks move on.

what cats ain't saying is that you reinvent yourself like Charlie Wilson,Ronald Isley then said audience will mostly embrace the old stuff, but they are lukewarm to the new.

in the Hood it can be argued that MJ,prince,Lionel,Rick were never the same to folks after 84. that ain't far fetched. and truth be told Luther vandross was running a certain ship from 85 onwards for a minute.i'm talking R&B circles.

and the bottom line folks moved on and that makes the topic full of self hate and also irrelevent because it ain't like it only happen to Lionel.

yeah defend where other acts stand now while alive after the 80's into the 90's? Rick James was the only one who won if you will because he didn't really cross over fully and also he was able to keep a myth there,etc..

Rick did his Columbia run through Eddie Murphy, Mary Jane girls.

What on earth did Rick win?
_________________________________
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he didn't suffer the same fall out from the R&B Audience as MJ, Prince and Lionel and even Luther did later on.

Rick kept his hood pass and the lasting image of him battling to keep the funk afloat.

RIck James was seen as that Brother from around the way that cats could relate to, yet he still had game to balance it out.

he stayed funky no matter what and that endured him more than the other brothers and that is a fact.

>I said quality of the music AND what I (****) view as the
>levels of ones attempt to gain another audience at the expense
>of your former audience...
>
>No one is calling anyone an Oreo....That's Maxx's game...If
>only it could be that simple in an era (the '80s) when
>everyone was trying to cross over...

I do think that calling a Black artist white bread is basically calling them an uncle tom or a sellout but I see your point.
>
>The difference musically between say '80s Prince, '80s Rick
>James, and '80s MJ with '80s Lionel is those other acts
>managed to expand their audience without the stench of
>BLATANTLY going for the white middle America....

I just think MJ and Prince were better at making quality music that appealed to middle america than Lionel was but I don't know if they were any less guilty of that than Lionel was.
>
>But even more than that, it's the drop in quality of an artist
>who wrote "Zoom" and then went on to make "All Night Long" and
>"Dancing On The Ceiling"....
>
>And yet...that's not even my underlining gripe...It's the
>hypocrisy of some posters as it pertains to Lionel...
>
>Nothing more...nothing less..

I hear you. I'm not a fan of Lionel's 80's material either but I do question calling someone white bread for trying to appeal to a broader audience when as you mentioned that's what everyone was doing during the Reagan era.
>

seeing Lionel Richie when it comes to a pen and pad. they had other factors going for them and in truth of the 3 Lionel was the least likely to blow up, but he did because he had the pen and pad and those songs stick like glue.

i dug all 3 and all 3 are great talents respectively IMO.

.

I like Mj's music the most of those three.

But if your talking strictly songwriting? There is not even a debate there. L Ritchie takes it all the way. I would question someone's definition/knowledge of songwriting if they argued any other way.

There is a method to your madness Maxxx. People think you just randomly pick these acts to trumpet but it's clear that you just value composition more than the large majority of this board does. Id argue that for alot of people here....songwriting doesn't really matter. Alot of the music i like has no compositional value whatsoever.

h

>I like Mj's music the most of those three.
>
>But if your talking strictly songwriting? There is not even a
>debate there. L Ritchie takes it all the way. I would
>question someone's definition/knowledge of songwriting if they
>argued any other way.
>
>There is a method to your madness Maxxx. People think you
>just randomly pick these acts to trumpet but it's clear that
>you just value composition more than the large majority of
>this board does. Id argue that for alot of people
>here....songwriting doesn't really matter. Alot of the music
>i like has no compositional value whatsoever.


Nah...we just look at the outcome of Lionel's "songwriting"....

There is indeed a case to be made for the same Lionel that wrote most of the Commodores music in the '70s...In fact, everyone here knows how incredible he was as a pure songwriter...That's never been in question...But the majority of his '80s output? Not so much...

Besides, mostly everyone on this site agrees that Lionel was a better and more prolific songwriter than Mike...And he was more diverse than Rick...

But Stevie (another name that was brought into the discussion) and Prince? I'll stack their best work up against Lionel's anytime...And feel great about it...

>Nah...we just look at the outcome of Lionel's
>"songwriting"....

well...that's kinda besides the point cause the 'outcome' of a composition is different than the composition itself. I LOVE the composition of 'say you say me'....but the outcome (the arrangement, the production, etc) is admittedly not so great, perhaps a little corny. But if you love songwriting itself....that tune is undeniable.


>There is indeed a case to be made for the same Lionel that
>wrote most of the Commodores music in the '70s...In fact,
>everyone here knows how incredible he was as a pure
>songwriter...That's never been in question...But the majority
>of his '80s output? Not so much...

I think his songwriting was better in the 80's. But the Commodores had better arrangements, playing, grooves, production all that kinda stuff.

>But Stevie (another name that was brought into the discussion)
>and Prince? I'll stack their best work up against Lionel's
>anytime...And feel great about it...

Stevie's a master of all trades so it's a tough call. The only area or skill that Lionel has that could measure up to Stevie would be songwriting and it's a tough call. In all, I'd say Lionel got the edge.

But Prince? Just no. I would characterize Prince's greatest attributes as being a master arranger...great instrumentalist....great programming. Basically the polar opposite of someone like Richie who's main thing is composition/songwriting. I think Prince got Richie beat in every facet of record-making EXCEPT for songwriting.

As an aside...and it's probly none of my white business....but I have no idea why some black guys here are arguing over what black people listen to. Who cares? I like hearing all the informed views here but some of this stuff is so unnecessary. You got a bunch of music nerds/elites (whichever you prefer) arguing over what other people think. And those other people aren't as passionate about music as we all are here. As soon as people start appealing to their neighborhoods I tune out cause I don't care.

But I recognize your attempts for staying classy Murph. Cheers and agree to disagree.

LOL

yeah. okay.

Cause it's not even close. I'm not a theory expert but I read charts. Lionel's songs NEED charts. The majority of MJ's music could be given to a session player without a chart. Way more conventional.....way more simple.

Lionel has subtle little things that would throw a session player for a loop. You'd need a chart for that stuff.

the post asked who made more white bread music.

and b/c i don't care about Lionel's songwriting ability. big whoop. i'm not impressed if i don't dig the resulting records. and in his case, for the most part i don't.

why was i laughing? who's not laughing at this post?

I like to find new ways of responding to 'lol' so I regret if you ain't seen me smiling while I wrote that.

True enough on the things you said. But you should load up 'say you say me' in the youtube machine and try to reconsider it. Watch it with someone you love. LAUGHING OUT LOUD!!!!!!!!!

But seriously, someone told me I don't come across the right way on the computer so I gotta be more direct. This post has been funny but got a little mean in parts. I preferred the other post about Lionel being better than Jayzee.

Maxxx....you gotta stop with all the offensive slurs. Offsides and out of bounds.

and i can't tell if the poll was Lionel B.Richie or Mistermaxxx because nobody said nothing about Jeffrey Osbourne.

this is personal and there is going to be War. from now on. they messed with the wrong Black Man in Here this time.

anytime i hear or see a negative comment about Lionel richie and i know it is a backhand veil diss on me, then I'm speaking on it.

Maxx...you have way too much of a high opinion of yourself....

Humble it down a bit, brother....

Afkap and Doc ride just as hard for Lionel and I consider myself cool with them (as I did Maxxx) It wasn't until Maxxx came at me personally that I focused my posting at him.

If I took things personally every time Maxxx attacked an act I like the lesson would be a war zone.
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>
>>Nah...we just look at the outcome of Lionel's
>>"songwriting"....
>
>well...that's kinda besides the point cause the 'outcome' of a
>composition is different than the composition itself. I LOVE
>the composition of 'say you say me'....but the outcome (the
>arrangement, the production, etc) is admittedly not so great,
>perhaps a little corny. But if you love songwriting
>itself....that tune is undeniable.


It's not besides the point, Denny....Because when I listen to "Zoom" by the Commodores I am amazed at the composition of that song...The rich build up...The stutter step cadence of the actual track...But all that would be moot if I didn't actually think the song was quality...if it was actually "good" or listenable...Again, there's a difference between someone who is not a fan of a specific format of music, but still appreciates the artistry that goes behind it (You hear folks who usually do this with classical music and jazz) and then someone who dislikes the outcome of a song, regardless of what went into it, because it sucks...

That's basically for the most part '80s Lionel(to me)...."Say You Say Me" is a awful song....If other folks like it, well, different strokes..But I know how great Lionel can be with his songwriting...So (for me) a song like "Say You, Say Me" is dude slumming it...And he slummed it a lot during that period....



>>There is indeed a case to be made for the same Lionel that
>>wrote most of the Commodores music in the '70s...In fact,
>>everyone here knows how incredible he was as a pure
>>songwriter...That's never been in question...But the
>majority
>>of his '80s output? Not so much...

>I think his songwriting was better in the 80's. But the
>Commodores had better arrangements, playing, grooves,
>production all that kinda stuff.


And I think you need to get your ears checked...lol...But seriously, that's on you...I can't make you change your mind...I just know that "Easy" is miles ahead of "Dancing On A Ceiling"....



>>But Stevie (another name that was brought into the
>discussion)
>>and Prince? I'll stack their best work up against Lionel's
>>anytime...And feel great about it...

>
>Stevie's a master of all trades so it's a tough call. The
>only area or skill that Lionel has that could measure up to
>Stevie would be songwriting and it's a tough call. In all,
>I'd say Lionel got the edge.


And I'd say that you are on crack...lol...But I still respect your opinion, homie...

>But Prince? Just no. I would characterize Prince's greatest
>attributes as being a master arranger...great
>instrumentalist....great programming. Basically the polar
>opposite of someone like Richie who's main thing is
>composition/songwriting. I think Prince got Richie beat in
>every facet of record-making EXCEPT for songwriting.

Again..crack...lol...But I respect your rationale behind your thinking....As always...


>As an aside...and it's probly none of my white business....but
>I have no idea why some black guys here are arguing over what
>black people listen to. Who cares? I like hearing all the
>informed views here but some of this stuff is so unnecessary.
>You got a bunch of music nerds/elites (whichever you prefer)
>arguing over what other people think. And those other people
>aren't as passionate about music as we all are here. As soon
>as people start appealing to their neighborhoods I tune out
>cause I don't care.




Um...Maxx brought that up, Denny...Take it up with him...That's the guy that you are somewhat defending...Believe me....No one was bringing up race until Maxx started questioning people's blackness and calling people Uncle Tom's and Oreos and lying about Lionel getting a hall pass in the hood just because we said that Lionel was at the head of the class in the '80s when it came to making middle of the road bullshit...Which is a pretty hard thing to do considering that NEARLY EVERYONE was playing that game in the '80s....





>But I recognize your attempts for staying classy Murph.
>Cheers and agree to disagree.


Respect....

alot of this stuff is just simple differences of opinion.

The only thing I'd like to address is this idea that songwriting is worthless without good execution.

I've heard different versions of this same concept in this post and I think it's worth addressing. For me, I'm perfectly capable of saying 'that's a very well-written song but the production is horrible/the singing is horrible/the playing is horrible/etc.' Off the top of my head...a song like 'Heaven' by Bryan Adams comes to mind. Great composition but horrible execution....ripe for covering or re-interpreting.

Another way to illustrate this....haven't you ever heard a bad version of a standard like 'Summertime'? Hearing someone do shame to 'summertime' doesn't change the greatness of the composition right?
But what you're saying is that "all that would be moot if I didn't actually think the song was quality...if it was actually good or listenable." To me, the quality of the composition is not moot at all. You've simply heard a bad version of a well-written song.

they don't know nothing about no songwriitng. Lionel Richie would run the Heel of Prince when it comes to songwriting.

only Stevie wonder got Lionel B.Richie beat, but then again for my Money Stevie got everybody else beat, now as far as listening to MJ wins and in a breeze because his stuff on motown and on sony moved me the most for a longer period of time.

Prince is a time period thing and i feel that more and more with each passing year because i ain't felt nothing from that cat in over 20 years.

MJ might have stole the Beatles publishing....but Lionel stole Macca's chord/key changes. hohoho

In all seriousness...I haven't read anything of the sort, but when I hear Lionel's stuff I always think of Mcartney's influence. Mostly in the way he goes from minor keys to major relatives at the end of a verse in order to transition to choruses. Also adding in extra measures at the end of a verse.

no biggie there lionel won

Lionel or Jeffrey? it assumes both had white-bread careers in the 80s.

no doubt Lionel did. and he wasn't alone.

clearly this post aint about Osborne at all. LOL

maybe what seperates Lionel is he hasn't been re-embraced by the Blacks like some of his peers. he hasn't had the same sort of comeback they had. the white-bread thing is how many of us remember him as a solo act.

he wasn't into catering, he is Artist,Songwriter in the traditon of Ray Charles. folks in the know are laughing at the hate Lionel is getting in here.

right.

opening up a argument about the validity of what is staying rooted and what is not and when you are dealing with a major record company and it is a business expectations, hit material and radio friendly tracks things have to be there for it to be successful.

Motown is the still the Greatest Record company ever to me and they were very successful and accessible, but the songs were there that is the bottom line, you can still groove and enjoy those songs.

Michael Jackson, Lionel Richie, Stevie Wonder, Diana Ross, Smokey Robinson, The Temptations, the four tops, Marvin gaye, Rick James, didn't have Long careers just because they crossed over, they had strong material that the public enjoyed and those songs still hold up

smooth Jazz connects because again it is the material speaking to a certain audience.

unlike now where everybody can be couch critic and listen to this or that, back then you either felt the songs or you was working a 9 to 5.

it really doesn't matter. lol

i also broke down the industry and you have to have a hit.

you being a big prince fan know the story that before Purple rain was coming out they told Prince yeah you got some good songs, but you don't have a money track and then he came back with "When doves cry" that is what I'm talking about you gotta have that.

>Does making obvious attempts to cross mean that it's bad or
>poor quality? Thriller, Purple Rain...shit everything on
>Motown was created to sell to as many people as possible of
>all backgrounds so does that automatically make them white
>bread or bland?


No...popularity and mass consumption does not equal white bread or bland...No one has ever said that...In fact, most of our music discussions has gone on record as saying that the '80s was the age of the Cross Over Negro...

The thing for me has always been about the quality of the music and what sounds (to me) like deliberate pandering to sell records...

There is indeed quality cheese out there...I mean "Celebration" by Kool & The Gang was cheesy as hell....lol...But I loved the shit out of that song when I was a kid...So no, that's not even the issue...

It's the blatant distance that Richie went to crossing over along with the quality of the music after his success with the Commodores...And I understand that some folks have a different opinion on that....Welcome to America...



>The reason I asked that question is because I think we can
>forget that mass amounts of Black folks can like some shit
>that other people might look at as corny or white bread.
>George Duke, Grover Washington...Smooth Jazz in general is big
>with a ton of Black audiences so I question the validity of
>calling this stuff white bread simply because it's not gritty.


Indeed...but again, I think you are missing the point...This thread is more about the revisionist history that is being played out by some folks...Not to mention the personal disrespect and hypocrisy being shown over something as fun and trivial as a music discussion...

>No...popularity and mass consumption does not equal white
>bread or bland...No one has ever said that...In fact, most of
>our music discussions has gone on record as saying that the
>'80s was the age of the Cross Over Negro...
>
>The thing for me has always been about the quality of the
>music and what sounds (to me) like deliberate pandering to
>sell records...

So you don't think there have been great records that were deliberately made to sell records or pander to a mass audience? If the issue is if it sounds good or not that I get but to try and get in any artists head in the music "business" is a tricky thing. In general everyone is trying to sell as many records to as many people as possible.
>
>There is indeed quality cheese out there...I mean
>"Celebration" by Kool & The Gang was cheesy as
>hell....lol...But I loved the shit out of that song when I was
>a kid...So no, that's not even the issue...
>
>It's the blatant distance that Richie went to crossing over
>along with the quality of the music after his success with the
>Commodores...And I understand that some folks have a different
>opinion on that....Welcome to America...

So I think you're saying that the music stopped being good right? That I get. I'm not a fan of most of Lionel's solo work either but I'm just trying to get what it is that people are saying is white bread. To me corny or cheesy is much different than white bread.
>
>
>
>>The reason I asked that question is because I think we can
>>forget that mass amounts of Black folks can like some shit
>>that other people might look at as corny or white bread.
>>George Duke, Grover Washington...Smooth Jazz in general is
>big
>>with a ton of Black audiences so I question the validity of
>>calling this stuff white bread simply because it's not
>gritty.
>
>
>Indeed...but again, I think you are missing the point...This
>thread is more about the revisionist history that is being
>played out by some folks...Not to mention the personal
>disrespect and hypocrisy being shown over something as fun
>and trivial as a music discussion...

I got the point of the post but I did want OP to say what he defines as white bread so that we are clear. Plenty of popular Black music has been called white bread from Motown to Nat King Cole so I'm wondering how OP or others in here are measuring what is or isn't white bread.

>So you don't think there have been great records that were
>deliberately made to sell records or pander to a mass
>audience? If the issue is if it sounds good or not that I get
>but to try and get in any artists head in the music "business"
>is a tricky thing. In general everyone is trying to sell as
>many records to as many people as possible.



No I'm looking at quality and pandering....It's bigger than just trying to gain a mass audience...



>>There is indeed quality cheese out there...I mean
>>"Celebration" by Kool & The Gang was cheesy as
>>hell....lol...But I loved the shit out of that song when I
>was
>>a kid...So no, that's not even the issue...
>>
>>It's the blatant distance that Richie went to crossing over
>>along with the quality of the music after his success with
>the
>>Commodores...And I understand that some folks have a
>different
>>opinion on that....Welcome to America...

>So I think you're saying that the music stopped being good
>right? That I get.

Yes...that's exactly what I'm saying....

>I got the point of the post but I did want OP to say what he
>defines as white bread so that we are clear. Plenty of popular
>Black music has been called white bread from Motown to Nat
>King Cole so I'm wondering how OP or others in here are
>measuring what is or isn't white bread.


Like I said...there's quality mass consumption pop music out there....I don't subscribe to the whole "it has to sound black" for me to dig music...

If you read any of my posts you know that I'm all over the place musically from funk to '70s punk to hip-hop to even some of that cheesy music that we name checked (from post Genesis Phil Collins to even the more beige, post big Luther Vandross)....

I think that Lionel's music after the Commodores (although I dug some of that first solo album) was generic bullshit music for middle of the road folks...

That's my beef with Lionel....Other than that, he was an exceptional songwriter when he wanted to be...He just happened to make some of the most dullest music known to man during that era...

>Indeed...but again, I think you are missing the point...This
>thread is more about the revisionist history that is being
>played out by some folks...Not to mention the personal
>disrespect and hypocrisy being shown over something as fun
>and trivial as a music discussion...

What really prompted this post was my boy's line "These dudes sound like a bunch of females" lol

We were at a friends house checking our his new TV with a built in browser... short version is we ended up over here and they saw all those Lionel Richie posts. Being lesson outsiders they couldn't even begin to comprehend what the hell was going on in here. They saw men talking about 80s solo Lionel in a way that was pretty much unheard of back then.... that was when my boy Ant dropped it "These dudes sound like a bunch of females. Who else was ridding for this shit back then"?...Once the room caught a glimpse of AFKAP's avatar it got out of hand lol

But sometimes it really helps to step back and see this place through non-OKP eyes.
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trying to pick up the scales and chord changes, so again you can only speak for your region and area. i was trying to learn his parts on a piano.

I mean damn, the only time I hear "discussion" about Lionel Richie, Odd Future, or any subject-of-the-month is on here. People I know in real life either don't know those artists or only think of them when VH1 Soul or the old school set plays them.



> Being lesson outsiders
>they couldn't even begin to comprehend what the hell was going
>on in here. They saw men talking about 80s solo Lionel in a
>way that was pretty much unheard of back then.... that was
>when my boy Ant dropped it "These dudes sound like a bunch of
>females. Who else was ridding for this shit back then"?

>We were at a friends house checking our his new TV with a
>built in browser... short version is we ended up over here and
>they saw all those Lionel Richie posts. Being lesson outsiders
>they couldn't even begin to comprehend what the hell was going
>on in here. They saw men talking about 80s solo Lionel in a
>way that was pretty much unheard of back then.... that was
>when my boy Ant dropped it "These dudes sound like a bunch of
>females. Who else was ridding for this shit back then"?...Once
>the room caught a glimpse of AFKAP's avatar it got out of hand
>lol

man, that does it.

I don't recall anyone in that post talking like Lionel after CAN'T SLOW DOWN was anywhere near the great R&B artist that he was then and before. In fact, while maxx was tipping the scales of hilarity drumming Lionel's songwriting skills and work for other artists that basically prompted his solo career, he all basically clung to a certain "Lionel" idea that is basically R&B canon: Commodores work, and his first two solo albums, especially his first solo album.

People forget that he basically took 5 years off, released a scant few tracks in the early '90s to little fanfare, and disappeared again for years. By the time he came back, he was well in to his 40s or so which meant whatever music you did get from him was going to fly far under the radar. I was actually shocked to hear him working with the likes of Ne-Yo on one of those recent albums.

His legacy is essentially his Commodores work, and his first two solo albums. That period primarily appeals to "mature" listeners, and cats who came up during the 1970s who remember his work with the Commodores as it was happening. You have outliers like me, but I'll probably flesh out my Lionel appreciation as part of a separate post.

I don't think anyone else was disputing that, and when they talk about "Lionel B. Richie", that's what they mean.

I don't think even AFKAP would ride for "Dancing On The Ceiling". Hell, I don't think even Lionel would -- one of the things that makes him great to me, is that he knows he fucked up, he knows he sold his soul harder than anyone else in the era, and he knows that if he is going to be singing something like "Hello" or "Say You, Say Me", it's probably going to be part of a joke, and he does it in stride.

I mean, we all saw that potato crisps commercial...

dude is the William Shatner of R&B.

Frankly, that's not a bad place to be. I'd rather a self-parody than a guy who gets a "hood pass" for peeing on an underage girl in a home video because he makes baby makin' music. then has the BALLS to go and use percussion that sounds like PEE PEE in perhaps the worst series of songs he ever recorded.

(Yeah, I took it there... I ain't done, either)

Sanity....^^^^


The irony is no one ever said that Lionel wasn't a great songwriter at his best output....

I think the only issue has been the quality of his music for much of the '80s and the drastic lengths he went to get over, which hurt his Commodores legacy...

But NO ONE has ever questioned the man's talent....That's just a red herring along with all the Uncle Tom talk...

>The irony is no one ever said that Lionel wasn't a great
>songwriter at his best output....
>
>I think the only issue has been the quality of his music for
>much of the '80s and the drastic lengths he went to get over,
>which hurt his Commodores legacy...
>
>But NO ONE has ever questioned the man's talent....That's just
>a red herring along with all the Uncle Tom talk...
>
>


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only a Clarence Thomas waver would even dare start a thread like this in the first place. and then the running Brothers Tom salute and support this garbage. a flock of Oreo Cookies all melting there daggers into a Brother in Unity.

>only a Clarence Thomas waver would even dare start a thread
>like this in the first place. and then the running Brothers
>Tom salute and support this garbage. a flock of Oreo Cookies
>all melting there daggers into a Brother in Unity.


Have you no shame, sir?

matter of fact if he had have retired after "Can't slow down" he is Hall of Famer because the songs hold up and they are classics and he was a very successful Songwriter, Artist in a Band and solo and also as a Live Performer.

turkeys don't know nothing. all the clarence Thomas lovers are uniting against Lionel B.Richie so classic.

you seem stuck in a selective time warp and write like the funny farm driver forgot to give you your medicine, Lionel B.richie got the songs right and that is the bottom line did it in two different variations and it ain't about how many albums, etc.. he got it right

you ain't about music with your corny trying to be buddy, buddy with the clique riding for Jay z and having the nerve to compare Jay Z's career to Lionel richie's?

turkey somebody kidnapped what little brain you thought you had.

and r.Kelly is a Musical Genius and better than most of the tired crap you pander around here.

I'm one of the few people who criticizes Jay-Z on the grounds of making pop concessions below his talent level to stay afloat.

and if we're comparing artists? I listen to a lot more Lionel Richie than I do Jay-Z, especially since BP3.

also, LBR >>>>>>>>>> RSK.
all day, everyday.

You don't even realize when someone is actually backing you up....

Jesus Christ...lol

this is getting ugly
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after all of these years as if they betted money on dancing on the celing the song sounding a certain way and then they lost there weekly allowance and had to do more housework or something and they are still holding a grudge or something and have a conspiracy to just diss the Man and his Music period.

its a bad joke and another form of Black on Black Injustice.

you're going overboard w/the praise and so when we express our opinions about Lionel w/o praising him as much as you do, it comes across to you like we're hating on him or dissing his work. that's not the case, dude.

and you're also presenting what we consider factual error when you claim Lionel got tons of hood love in the 80s b/c those of us who were around and aware and connected to the hood or to Black folks, generally, back then remember it differently. we're trying to correct your error. to you that's us hating on Lionel and getting at you personally. but that ain't happening either.

and i lived in two different parts of the country and Lionel B.Richie got love. just because you only listen to a few acts doesn't represent other regions.

no this is personal and I ain't going to forget this. ya'll get madd because Lionel B.richie was wildly successful and made it look so easy and whenever a Black artist does it so smoothly then something has to be wrong and MJ got the same diss in here when he was Alive.

this is a Personal War and I'm going to defend Lionel B.Richie and his songs have held up way better than alot of other acts that get defended in here period.

Lionel was in the same R&B Solo Male Argument with Rick James, Prince,Michael Jackson and Luther Vandross.

you might not like it but he was.

He was running with MJ and Prince as well until he stopped putting out records to go take care of his parents, we don't know where he would have been had he not stopped.


naw this is personal and I'm going to defend Lionel B.Richie and his great musical legacy period.

>and i lived in two different parts of the country and Lionel
>B.Richie got love. just because you only listen to a few acts
>doesn't represent other regions.

i was in St. Louis and Oakland. in those areas the love for Lionel didn't flow like you said it did where you were.

>no this is personal and I ain't going to forget this.

LOL. i doubt even Mr. Richie would take it this personally. but, do your thing.

ya'll
>get madd because Lionel B.richie was wildly successful and
>made it look so easy and whenever a Black artist does it so
>smoothly then something has to be wrong and MJ got the same
>diss in here when he was Alive.

yeah, uh huh.

>this is a Personal War and I'm going to defend Lionel B.Richie

mm-hmm!

>and his songs have held up way better than alot of other acts
>that get defended in here period.

yeah. sure.

>Lionel was in the same R&B Solo Male Argument with Rick
>James, Prince,Michael Jackson and Luther Vandross.

LOL

>you might not like it but he was.

i'm so furious about it!!!

>He was running with MJ and Prince as well until he stopped
>putting out records to go take care of his parents, we don't
>know where he would have been had he not stopped.

he might've cured AIDS w/his music if he hadn't stopped.

>naw this is personal and I'm going to defend Lionel B.Richie
>and his great musical legacy period.

that's right! not even Brenda or Nicole could defend him so viciously.

With all the Black artists you make a point of shitting on, daily, you talk about "Black On Black Injustice" ?

Lol !

Yeah, yeah, I'm a Stan and I'm corny, blah blah......

Breaking to Lionel Ritchie........hahahahahahahaaaa !!!


What the blood claaat ???

It's an attempt to fool middle America into thinking they are playing a "street jam" without all that unpleasant blackness

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and what the Haters dont get is that was well ahead of the curve what Lionel Richie and glady Knight and them did because they embraced change and the youth.

i remember Jermaine dupri saying thanking you to said artists for having kids breaking and poping in there videos because back then the white label heads thought it was all a fad and didnt want much to do with it,etc... take a "L" haters a little sidebar history fact FYI

but then again the self hating on Lionel Richie probably loved watching cats popping in Billy Joel and robert Plant videos?? HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We can disagree all we want.... that's cool. But knock off the self hating talk. That shit is out of pocket and I'm not going to have it.... especially when it's being hurled at me over a closet-hiding, white woman loving, milk toast act like Lionel Richie.
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you getting personal on a Brother who has done a whole lot for folks who look like us and gave quite a bit to the motherland.

black college graduate, worked for a black owned business, kept alot of things chocolate. his personal life is not yours or my business Brother man has love.

i'll share a recent story with you, i got an old Lionel richie concert shirt i got from one of his shows and he is a great live performer thank you, and a Soul Sister saw my shirt and bout near started cabbage patching because she respects and dig Lionel B.Richie Brother man still got love like that.

Lionel is a Proud Brother.he ain't held nothing back i've peeped his interviews and he ain't holding nothing back but he stays classy and in tact.

Before my last post I never attacked Lionel in a personal way at all.... I said he made white bread music. That's no different than most of the shit you say about Prince. But to come back on that with an accusation I'm somehow self hating because I don't sex my girl down to "Hello" is taking this somewhere it doesn't need to go. You need to learn to deal with people seeing things differently than you without going into Jr Psychologist mode.
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>Before my last post I never attacked Lionel in a personal way
>at all.... I said he made white bread music. That's no
>different than most of the shit you say about Prince. But to
>come back on that with an accusation I'm somehow self hating
>because I don't sex my girl down to "Hello" is taking this
>somewhere it doesn't need to go. You need to learn to deal
>with people seeing things differently than you without going
>into Jr Psychologist mode.


I agree...We can all disagree here...But all the "self-hating" insults and Uncle Tom jabs are not needed...

It has nothing to do with this discussion....It's just plain lazy and disrespectful...

i'm a Soul brother

Lionel B.richie is a Soul brother I don't know about some of the folks in here, because this so 1986 posting is so tired and not necessary at all and it is a personal attack that ain't needed at all.

>i'm a Soul brother



No Maxx...you are a troubled soul....And I'm praying for you...on the real...


>Lionel B.richie is a Soul brother I don't know about some of
>the folks in here, because this so 1986 posting is so tired
>and not necessary at all and it is a personal attack that
>ain't needed at all.


I'm sure you feel this way....Now hold on to that point without lowering yourself to being disrespectful towards folks who don't deserve it...

ya'll deserve it and don't know nothing about no Music whatsoever.

you turkeys are embarassing to talk about Music and songwriting with.

ya'l don't know nothing. only Denny Make the most sense.

difference is Prince put it out on the big screen and just a few months ago he still has Alexender o'neil saying stuff from nearly 30 years back now show me tape where Walter CLyde orange is saying such stuff on Lionel Richie? Please do?

Prince pandered and made a joke of it on the black album he has mocked himself at playing both sides. i respect Prince's musicianship and what he accomplished back in the day that aint never to be taken away, however it ain't like he didn't play those games musically and he could easily be on your genric poll but we wouldnt want to see those results now would we??

your thread is a joke and a insult to Lionel B.richie and his fans.

you jumped the Shark in the name of Srah Palin, RUsh Limbaugh, Bill Oreilly, fox News, David Duke with this one.

anything you say about Lionel B.richie you will say about Ray Charles musically and i find that insulting.

LOL

>difference is Prince put it out on the big screen and just a
>few months ago he still has Alexender o'neil saying stuff from
>nearly 30 years back now show me tape where Walter CLyde
>orange is saying such stuff on Lionel Richie? Please do?

You're up in here having a completely different conversation. I know you're not one to ever miss the chance to take a shot at Prince but how about staying on topic long enough to at least make one point? You've done nothing in here but act offended that I dare share a sentiment that a good 80-90% of men my age share. Anyone looking in on this without the knowledge of who we are talking about would never in a million years guess it's about Lionel Richie. To hear you tell it he was the John Carlos of 80s R&B. I could find at least a dozen or more things on this board right now I could call controversial... saying Lionel Richie made a lot of white bread music damn sure ain't one of them.

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and see when i ran my thread about him being better than Lil Wayne, Jay Z and Kayne i was talking as a artist and acting like those cats aren't pop right now is wrong. also acting like the so called standards we had back in the day are still cool and thought the same in 2011 is also wrong.

what you cry foul over Lionel Richie is perfectly acceptable to Kayne west, jay Z and Lil Wayne fans along with having big opening weeks and sales, etc..

point being your thread and argument is old and dated man. nobody thinks or talks like that no more, and Lionel B.richie's catelog is vast and great and it is to be Celebrated and anything else at this Point is OUTRAGIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you like to say you think modern well then make up for a mistake in your youth and acknowledge that it was wrong to think like that back then if you embrace now.

because Jay Z fans will hit you with charts and stats and his Jewlery

same with Kayne west and Lil Wayne.

FYI jewlery means awards and plaques.

Lionel got a whole lot of Jewlery BTW.

i dislike Lionel's solo stuff now as much as i did back then.

i don't dislike it now just b/c it was pandering though. i dislike it b/c it just don't move me.

today, w/my adult sensibilities, i'd say Lionel is a 2nd tier act. i'm not willing to put him among the greats. not even when i consider his work w/the Commodores. he's not on MJ's level. he's not on Prince's level. he's not on Stevie's level. he's not as good a songwriter as any of those 3. not as good a vocalist. not as funky. not as soulful. not as moving. this is solo and w/the Commodores.

i bet he's a nice guy though. i'd go to a bbq at his place.

and are out of your mind. only Stevie Wonder is a better overall songwriter than Richie.

his stuff still holds up and they all made contrived material to certain folks. whatever Hater.

right there w/the Ohio Players and Kool & the Gang and EWF.

definitely below Marvin. and Smokey. and even Diana Ross. among many others, of course.

*shrugs*

flock of Oreo cookies all drapped in white hated Milk over a soul brother so sad.

"nobody thinks or talks like that no more"

Me a few years back talking to a 17 year old girl I was coaching

*she pulls up in her car playing brick house*

Me: You ever listen to any other Commodore stuff?

Her: No are they good?

Me: Yeah they were when Lionel Richie was with them.

Her: Who's that?

Me: The light skinned dude with the big face... he had some solo hits too like All Night Long & Dancing On the Ceiling.

Her: Oh Nicole Richie's dad


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>"nobody thinks or talks like that no more"
>
>Me a few years back talking to a 17 year old girl I was
>coaching
>
>*she pulls up in her car playing brick house*
>
>Me: You ever listen to any other Commodore stuff?
>
>Her: No are they good?
>
>Me: Yeah they were when Lionel Richie was with them.
>
>Her: Who's that?
>
>Me: The light skinned dude with the big face... he had some
>solo hits too like All Night Long & Dancing On the Ceiling.
>
>Her: Oh Nicole Richie's dad


LOL...and I always thought this^^^was a shame...Because the shit Lionel did with the Commodores was grade A and deserves to live beyond greatest hits compilations...

But this is the truth about his legacy...Fortunately, for him, Lionel has a huge following outside the States and especially in the Middle East...And his publishing money is EPIC...

I'm sure he sleeps well at night...lol

like damn you're Lionel Richie and you're better known by a whole generation as the father of a two bit reality side-kick *smh*
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Dude needs some ritalin or he broke into his pops liquor cabinet. Somebody shoot him in the neck with a horse tranquilizer.

The argument isn't that Lionel richie is some shuffling sellout, or he betrayed all black people. Its that in the obvious money grab of the 80's he went for the gusto in ways that even Peabo and Kool and the Gang didnt go.

His music is in the 80's is totally devoid of damn near any negrocity. Those 80's songs could have been easily made by Billy Joel, Elton John, or the like. Those are all great artists, but their 80's music was un-fuckin-listenable. They made their legacy in the 70's. I would listen to Sting or Phil Collins output in the 80's over Lionel Richie any day of the week. In the Air Tonite STILL gets played in 80's mixes in clubs and mega mixes on the radio. Them drums hit harder than anything Lionel touched from appx. 1979 till today. Why? Because there was some evidence of some gonads in that music. Lionels shit was safe, Gordon Gecko/Elvin Tibideaux elevator music. I dont hear All nite long or Penny lover anywhere unless its a dentist office. Lionels 80's output sounds like the soundtrack to TGIFridays ABC programming

As much as Jeffery Osbourne and Kool and the Gang's music paled in comparison to their 70's joints, they still had that unmistakable NEGROCITY that said ok this is soul music. Jeffery O' had some slap bassist and some other tweaks in his songs (such as stay with me tonite) that said "im tryna make this money but dont get it fucked up".

That being said Lionel stopped being the voice of young black America in say....1976. Dude was 35 during his musical solo prime. I remember as a shorty in ATL, Boston, and DC, that cats was breakdancing in the early mid 80s off of shit like 7 minutes of funk, planet rock, Jam on it, Friends, Apache.....Maybe niggas in west bubble fuck Virginia were pop locking off of dancing on the ceiling, but niggas was mean mug the shit out of a nigga popping a lionel richie tape in the boom box.

What the blood claaat ???

>"im tryna make this money but dont get it fucked up".

With the exceptions of artists who Took It Too Far (definitions of who those acts are will vary), it does seem most artists were trying (forced?) to try to have it both ways.

I see similiarities to a lot of current r&b and rap.

Well said my man. ::claps::

...show on cd that they did on television a few years back, I like both of them kats and those classics of theirs was a perfect blend.

Record labels fucked up by not releasing it on cd or dvd when this was aired on VH1.

and when you type that post that was ground breaking for back then because R&B and Country in a modern context and Lionel fit that world to a T. haters ain't trying to hear no truth, they want to act Lionel B.Richie was Rudy Ray Moore and then Morphed into Sinabd when he never changed whom he was musically at all.

at least Denny has his own mind and part of no Clique. hating turkeys are selectively senile when they want to be.

>at least Denny has his own mind and part of no Clique. hating
>turkeys are selectively senile when they want to be.


Again...u r showing your hand Maxx....

Believe me...If Denny actually read the entire thread and knew the history behind all of this he would see how disrespectful and dishonest you have been...I'm sure he would be less inclined to back someone who randomly throws out the offensive terms "Oreos," "self-hate" and "Uncle Tom" like you are referring to folks as Mr./Mrs....You can't stand on the merits of your own opinion...So you go the lazy route...

You got what you wished for...You wanted to bring this discussion down into the piss and mud...But folks understand that it's one thing to passionately disagree with someone...It's quite another to blatantly disrespect someone on a personal tip over something as fun and at times trivial as music...

Congrats...

you are a hater and anytime somebody agrees with me you always play your hand to make there opinion seem less significant. if somebody agrees with you I don't sit around down playing what you said, but you come at anyone that agrees with me speaks about your ownself Pal.

and you don't nothing about no songwriting or Lionel RIchie.

I don't like any of the racial stuff in this thread. Those terms Maxxx are using have their place and it's not here. But I also don't like the use of 'whitebread' in the post title.

I played competitive soccer when I was a kid and the teams were divided by ethnicity....italian, greek, etc. There wasn't a team that matched my roots but I was good so I ended up on the west indian team. Only 3 white guys including myself. We recruited a 4th white guy who had a phony jamaican accent and thought he'd try to fit in by making fun of me and my long hair and my general 'whiteness'.

I could take the occasional teasing from my teammates cause I knew there was a respect in the end. But when this other white guy was trying to do that shit I was furious and we fought it out right there. And I got the better of him via my forehead and his teeth. We were cool later on but I never truly forgot or forgave that about him.

So I can see how these terms like 'uncle tom' have their place. Getting over being a minority by snuggling up to other races and hating your own heritage. But Lionel doesn't deserve that and neither do any of the posters here.

I HATE when black people are made fun of cause they don't live up to the standards that some other black people expect. Whitewashed, whitebread, Carlton Banks....I have good friends that get that shit and I can tell it hurts. Bullshit. Unless someone has gone out of their way to somehow betray other people of their race in a manipulative way....live and let live.

they have there place here and those partys have it coming to them because they been unfair to Lionel B.Richie.

they acting like he did something horrible and they are unfairly targeting him on some old pre historic garbage and I'm calling them out on it and also there BlackNESS!! because Lionel B.Richie is more Blacker than they will ever be, whom is to judge the soul of a Man unless you have walked in his shoes?

Lionel B.Richie made his name on the music mountain before he went Solo Ok? so they just want to bash and hate on him on some old junior high he ain't one of Us type of being cool thing.

they need to get over it Can't slow down>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Purple Rain head to head Albums and it ain't even close.

sorry to hear you story, however i dealt with it all living in America and believe me hearing self hating turkeys talking that mess 30 years later is wrong. I feel like President Obama to there Tavis Smiley and Dr.Cornell West and this was a veil attempt to diss Lionel Richie and myself and I 'm speaking out on it and i ain't gonna get chumped out and it is personal.

they done set the wrong Brother off and talking about Lionel B.Richie is a No,No. there are acts that you don't bad mouth around me or you gotta deal with me. and when a self hating turkey calls a Brother White bread especially long after the fact well i question there own Blackness.

I would suggest that there is absolutely NO pragmatic reason for you to assume anything about the legitimacy of someone's 'blackness'. Perhaps this deep-seeded racial identity is the cause for your intolerance of other viewpoints?

Everytime someone disagrees with you about 'music'....you transform the argument into one of identity and pride.

them haters disagree because they know i think for myself and i ain't part of no clique up in here. they don't think for themselves and it shows.

anybody that half way has a brain ain't gonna say on one hand that Lionel B.Richie was a great or good writer and then turn around and diss him like they do and yet they talk about some other acts who ain't two hands to old Lionel's pepsi can in terms of talent and impact.

you need to be getting at them for how dumb and contradictary they sound. if I diss somebody especially if I say what they have said about Lionel Richie then I ain't gonna say he was great or good and then say but.

Lionel B.richie is Blacker than they will ever or dream of being period.

if you were Black you'd see they were trying to get at me by using this horrible self hating thread and it don't take scobby doo to figure out this Mystery.

i told you it is War and this is Personal and I ain't never went there, but they took it there. what you think Whitebread means?

cats coming along now don't talk like that hardly at all. i know what is up.

imo, you've been outta line here Maxxx.

You've been makng personal accusations of specific people here who appreciate you in the end. Not cool. Real shakey and unsure of you.

All with a racial implication that is completely meaningless. Too much pride....not enough humilitity.

i told dude to delete this thread and not make this dumb thread and it was done as a personal attack on me and also on Lionel Richie and so whatever is said is said, you contradicted your ownself because you said originally you had a problem with the title of the thread and now you are defending it and wondering why i reacted like i did?

they got the idea from my thread about Lionel Richie>>Jayz,Kayne West and Lil Wayne.

this thread should have never been made, but since it was it truly shows folks true colors or lack of Soul for another Brother.

them turkeys got served and messed with the wrong Black Man.

i hope they get caught in traffic and "Dancing on the Celing" is playing on repeat full Blast.

i bet if they were driving around town and Lionel Richie pulled up next to them they would pull a pen and pad out with quickness.

you don't diss Lionel B.Richie. and the thread title is self hating period and disquisting. veil and tired.

It kinda bugged me that Ritchie gets called those terms like 'white bread' but you have overreacted in my view.

Fact is....a whole bunch of nonsense in here for no reason. The debate should be the few posters who like/appreciate LR's talents against the myriad of doubters. That's why I'm here. I got sucked into your guy's race politics and wish I hadn't. I don't have anything of value to say about that stuff anyways.

You guys carry on defining what black people liked in 1984. What was cool in your respective neighborhoods. What black people are 'supposed' to like....less they be 'uncle toms' or white bread.

I will continue to not care.

Edit: Michael Buble is AWESOME.

i like Michael Buble he got his own lane and especially now since Harry Connick Jr gave it up.

you are cool peoples and I respect your musical take because you pointed out the point about songwriting and see that songwriting as to beat makers and Groove based acts are the divide and focus alot of the time in here.

yeah it got to me because this ain't 1984 anymore and who talks like that anymore?

Hammer, Puffy,and alot of the rappers that have come along since and enjoyed commerical success can get a pass without half the talent of Lionel B.richie baffles me in here with that ole school hate.

you cool and I appreciate you pointing out the chord and changes facts plus the songwriting. props to you Man on that.

thank you for sharing your story as well.

and I remembering all the Haters. Black Lynching High Tech Style what a waste of energy?

ya'll made the Massa happy with your Hatin Black on Black Injustice and clique unit against Black.

OUTRAGIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

in the hour of chaos...

Nobody you know was pop locking etc. to Lionel Ritchie.

You lied and made up hood stories to support your weak based argument.

This negates any of your points and your integrity...past and current.

Oh, and the way you have come at folks in here just shows how you are struggling to stay afloat. Lying and name calling just shows that you know you know you are wrong regarding your statements on this topic.

just been bored for the past 5 or so years

this is the auto tune era of okp lol

and you always been wack, a poor little stan with no substance.

now come on, let's not be the other extreme of this conversation

he sacrificed his credibility for dollars
(something Jay-Z has done to a degree, something Wayne IS doing, something Kanye has done in the eyes of some, something 50 Cent did for sure, yet when Common and/or Nas do it? controversy and calls for lulz and "lost" calls), still doesn't erase that the work he did in the '70s and early '80s basically made him worthy enough of a solo career and fame on his own name.

and while that song is basically more clowned for the schmaltz factor, and sort of an internet/TV meme nowadays, "Hello" lives on.

Just like jabronis will probably resurrect "In The Club" in 2025 on some "remember how corny as hell this song was? LOL".

and just how "assless chaps" will ALWAYS be a part of every Prince conversation

but rdhull is stating this about maxxx, not lionel.

I couldn't match pronouns to subject

I really don't know what the value of this "community-level" hit discussion when it's presented as absolute

Wrong battle Doc...

always following my every word llike a broke down benji. crawling out of your purple cave shameless jive turkey. i know what is up round my way turkey

or cats weren't pop lockin in the All Night long video??

lol..

brick house had cats poppin for sure

>or cats weren't pop lockin in the All Night long video??
>
>lol..
>
>brick house had cats poppin for sure


read better

lovely nigga is straight battling Murph dog and Old Pro and beating them down with his words and arguments so nicely.

I feel like Chris Tucker in here after Criag knocked out Deebo thats my dawg thats my dawg

>lovely nigga is straight battling Murph dog and Old Pro and
>beating them down with his words and arguments so nicely.
>
>I feel like Chris Tucker in here after Criag knocked out Deebo
>thats my dawg thats my dawg

This is officially the silly season...

I don't think I've seen Maxx be in I Don't Give A Fuck What I Say Or Who I Say It To as much as in this thread. He did say he took this personal, but damn......

Lionel would be ashamed. I don't think these are the kinds of emotions he was looking to evoke in his music.

if maxxx states his point Murph always disagrees like a lil bitch, im on Maxxx side it is crazy to call Lionel a sell out and all that since all black acts try to crossover in some sense.

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>if maxxx states his point Murph always disagrees like a lil
>bitch, im on Maxxx side it is crazy to call Lionel a sell out
>and all that since all black acts try to crossover in some
>sense.


You've been reading this thread backwards....This has nothing to do with Lionel being a sell-out...

Reading is fundamental homie...

If maxxx is like 1 + 1 = 2 you and Old Pro will jump up and down like whoa and start questioning him and start using some bullshit.

To call Lionel white bread is disrespectful since he made music that was blacker than anything your little purple sissy boy ever did, and Prince"s funk always had a white man swing to it and what is more white bread than Purple Rain and Around the world in a day come on to shit on Lionel is weak sauce.

It also pigeonhole's black music and as a writer and decent journalist you should know better than to pigeonhole or call somebody a sellout

>If maxxx is like 1 + 1 = 2 you and Old Pro will jump up and
>down like whoa and start questioning him and start using some
>bullshit.


Again...I don't know u and I've never seen you post around these parts...But I'm calling bullshit because OP has been backing Maxx since the days when dude was getting banned...And while Maxx and myself have had spirited debates in the past, we always had respect for one another...Hell, he's even apologized for taking one debate too far...So no, there was never "beef" or issues with dude on my part...But lately, it seems like (on his part) he's going through some things and projecting that shit on folks on this board...And that's unfortunate...


>
>To call Lionel white bread is disrespectful since he made
>music that was blacker than anything your little purple sissy
>boy ever did, and Prince"s funk always had a white man swing
>to it and what is more white bread than Purple Rain and Around
>the world in a day come on to shit on Lionel is weak sauce.


Again..I think you are pulling my leg here...I would venture to say that you are an alias...But i will try to take your post on face value...This is not Prince vs. Lionel...This is about whether or not folks can have a musical debate without resorting to name calling and blatant disrespect....Clearly, that point is going over your head...
>
>It also pigeonhole's black music and as a writer and decent
>journalist you should know better than to pigeonhole or call
>somebody a sellout


Red herring, dog...Whether or not I think Lionel's '80s music sucks or that he sold out to the highest bidder is beyond the point...And again, you have to read...Maxx is the one that brought race into this...In fact, that's been his whole steeze....He's called artists sell-outs so many times that it's become his calling card...

Bottom line: I've never disrespected Maxx...I've always debated with the facts and my own views without resorting to slinging out "Uncle Tom" (again, if you've read my work, this is wacky, unfounded and lazy statement)...

I feel funny even responding to this shit...Again, we can all agree to disagree...But blatant disrespect and lying? Nah...that's not part of the game...Maybe for you it is...But I don't roll like that....

who this is the name might change but verbal beatdown never will i guess i got to whip that ass a lil more for you to remember who i am

I don't know u...and there seems to be something personal going on here...what it is, I don't care...

Keep it moving....

Like your posting on this board has been so impactful in our lives that murph is going to know who you are based off your posting style

*rolls eyes*

The narcissism here is getting absurd
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besides that i just notice a trend in the past yr that u and murph tend to gang up on maxxx nuthin more nuthin less i just call it how i see it

>besides that i just notice a trend in the past yr that u and
>murph tend to gang up on maxxx nuthin more nuthin less i just
>call it how i see it

Oh, now it aint that serious?......Put the pom poms down....

The only pattern is in your head....And trust me, you not fucking with anyone...lol....You looking like a cheerleading asshole who thinks too highly of himself...

Again...OP has usually been in Maxx's corner...When dude was an outlaw in these parts Old Pro would be the one that would always say, "Maxx is a cool dude...You have to get to know him..." So this business of OP and I tag-teaming Maxx is dubious....

OP and myself only started getting at Maxx in this thread because of him spewing shit that had nothing to do with a music discussion....maybe in your world blatant disrespect is cool...

If it is, that's on you...

Like I said, keep this bullshit moving, dog....Your fake indignation is showing...Whoever you are...

now that is what I'm talking bout especially about Prince.

Purple rain for the most part was milk toasty.

lets go crazy which was a rewrite of the Je Geils Band "Centerfold" basically

Take me with u all on that Mammas and poppa's tip

Purple Rain was for crying out loud inspired by Bob seger.

baby i'm a star sounding a MJ Showtune and even in the movie performance version with the Black Hat Prince is doing a part MJ part sammy Davis Jr routine.

I would die 4 u is the kind of song that Bryan Adams could do the Smurf to. never liked that song at all except for the extended version with Eddie M and the horns and Shelia E on the Percussion groove.

around the world in a day laughable then and now. the kind of funk that Lenny Kravitz's has made a career out of. take that however you want.

Prince out to be on the Option pick in all seriousness because i remember very well and Michael Jackson, Rick James, Lionel Richie never made a "black album" where they themeselves question there own soul on record. another "L" for Prince

in comparrison Dancing on the Celing sounds like James Brown at the Apollo to Prince with Around in the day sounding like a snort heavy day of inhailing Paste sounding like Pat Bone.

like i've said cats be having selective Senile memory because cats wer luaghing at what Prince put out after purple rain and some of Purple rain was so/so.

i mean Prince gave the time "ice cream castles" which sounded so 60's in a Patridge family theme groove kind of way. you couldn't dance to no Ice cream castles unless you were doing the Tom Willis dance and Ice Cream Castles the song was too corny for even Tom Willis to dance to on the Jeffersons.


Great calls ONN you is ON and Popping them turkeys up like a Bag of Pop Corn in here.

In post after post.......... but I make a post about Lionel making some white bread music and it's an attack on you and has you calling for an all out "war"

Seriously man how do you reconcile that shit?

Please enlighten me.
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almost 30 years later and not just him doing his thing musically but also personally. i mean i listen to Prince as much as anyone back in the day,etc.. and acting like he wasn't gearing things up a certain way and the fact the dude who was once upon a time a Badd Cat in the studio had to resort to Naming an album "the Black Album" because folks were calling him out speaks volumes don't you think?

Prince and Lionel Richie are two different cats though I can tell Prince was influenced by Lionel in some ways in certain things. another topic and thread.

what i take exception to is a whole lot, because Lionel never changed his basic formula and i point out songs during a decade long stretch where he was the same cat doing what he does.

it ain't like one day Lionel B.richie went from being Rudy Ray Moore into Byron Allen i mean come on man, the same cat that wrote sail on with Country,R&B and Pop dish also did truly, then penny Lover and deep river woman. all within a decade.

Prince though a very talented Musician and Artist has blurred the lines racially in film, videos and certainly in his music. i mean somebody could clown U got the Look, arms of Orion, graffti Bridge title song, free,i would die 4 u, and alot of around the world in a day and parts of parade and have a field day on the question of what happen to the Soul Prince?

dude if you don't see it Prince is just to easy to go after and he brought that on himself talk about drastic change?

the whole NPG and Tony M era sounds like a Guilty suspect of what you calling out Lionel B.richie on.

thing about Lionel and Jeffrey is that they were writing for Grown folks something that Prince for all of his talent ain't never really been able to register.

that's why i said around my way and growing up we dug Prince's music, but as a songwriter he really was never saying a whole lot and he sure ain't seeing no real Songwriters to expand on that, but in terms of Grooves,Hooks and vamps he manipulated a whole lot of placement which was cold back in the day.

and Man somebody could go after Ray Parker Jr. you gotta understnad when you singel somebody out as a Artist then you leave yourself wide open for others to get at somebody you dig and to me Ray Parker Jr never really changed you can say jacked other folks stuff or got corny, but he never changed his formula he was always acceissible.

Prince made a 360 degree flip from dirty mind to purple rain and your argument against lionel applys here if you can dig the picture.

thats why i say all the acts back then were guilty of this if you will. picking on lionel b. richie is so 1984 and tired.

besides Man can't no music artist or entertainer control or dictate our lives, now however a Politican like a Ward Connerly is who you outta be having issues with IMO. or this Brother running in the Tea Party.

It still doesn't change the fact you have formed an opinion that you have no shame in bashing others over the head with. I see threads you make week in and week out with statements I find absurd. But for the most part I just stay clear of them and let you have your say... after all it's your thread. But you won't hesitate to roll up in another person's post and attack the subject of said post... you do it almost daily. I could have just as easily came into on of your Lionel threads and gave my two cents but instead I made my own post because I don't like shitting in another man's house if I don't have to. But here you come into MY post telling me I'm full of self hate and bashing me over the head with you opinion.... and maxxx that's all these are my man, opinions. You can create whatever crazy ass scenario you want to justify you Prince hate obsession but you don't have the right to jump up in my thread and attack me personally... trying to turn it around and say you were the one being attacked only makes it more disrespectful. If I had wanted to attack you why wouldn't I have just come in one of your Lionel posts and start with you there? No I tried to show you respect by not doing that... and this is what I get in return.

Man we've known each other for a long ass time and had our ups and down in the process.... but this shit you did right here was out of pocket man. I'm not going to say much more because there's a who lot of shit I want to say to you right now that won't lead to anything productive. But it's time to grow up and stop with this victimization bullshit.
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now am i right or wrong? trying to think long and hard at how many Lionel B.Richie threads you have made over the years?

everybody who can read between the lines know what your thread was saying and how it played itself out. bottom line the term sell out needs to be retired and i ain't going to say it anymore because hip-hop showed me and you and others of a certain age range and group that all is fair when it comes to Dollaz and Sense.

i don't hate Prince and I wish you wouldn't say that. because i have bought his records, been to his shows and supported the cat for a long time, however his track record on this very subject speaks for itself. alot of folks got into Prince because he was on some Peacock NBC tip.

Prince was never really a threatening Brother Musically or personally like that on the real.

Prince could jam and Groove, but he was never a threat. but the 360 degree turn he did after he made the black album and his early 90's era are comical and nevermind because he was a mess and never recovered studio wise.

my thread was cool because what you bash Lionel about is what Jay Z is getting over with now as is Kayne West and Lil Wayne.

Kayne had that one video where he was rocking the Lionel Richie do and cats were tripping out over it. but the bottom line it is Pop Music and is accessible and all of our acts that have crossed over have purposely done it and knowingly.

by your logic against Richie than Sam Cooke is a double cream pop becuase he tailored his sercular material to meet radio and it was very accesible the background vocals you notice as well.

ain't nothing new under the sun.

i never called myself a victim, however i can tell a attack was on but it didn't stick because i can battle and i took up for the Lionel bashing.

put it like this yeah i jump in other threads and make my pressence felt however i ain't had no kind of confrontation as i have had in the past few weeks especially when it comes to Lionel B.richie and i wonder why the resentment lingers some nearly 30 years later from cats like yourself? i don't get it.

i stay out of alot of threads. you using jeffrey osbourne was a bad joke most heads here don't know him from Tom Osbourne.

i already said lionel comes from the ray charles school of music making.

this ain't the 80's no more.i grew up listening to lionel b.richie amongest others still got the same "can't slow down" tape i use to listen to when i went to the malls and things.,

The only reason it read "Lionel B.Richie" was because I was too lazy to type it out and cut and pasted the name from the anchored thread. Yes you've been making Lionel Richie posts but you're not the only one here that champions his solo work. Dr Claw is a huge fan and even wrote a long piece on his blog about this very subject.

But even if I just made this thread in response to ONLY what YOU'VE said... so what? I can't take another side of an issue without having you attack me personally? That's the irony in all of this... you've done to me exactly what you're accusing me of doing to do... and doing it without the least bit of shame. Then justifying it by saying "well you haven't made these posts in the past" ??????????????? So it would be ok if I made weekly anti Lionel Richie post?

You're on real thin ice here homie. You want others to show you and your favorite artists respect but when the same is asked of you you throw out some weak sauce argument based around a quote by Alexander O'Neal. Man the shit would be funny if it weren't so sad.

Bottom line is moving forward you get what you give from me. If you want to go head up then we can do that. But don't think you're going to tell me what I can and can't talk about or accept some self centered justification just because you say so.
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at this 1982,83,84,85,86 fill in the blank of the year issue that a certain set of folks still have with Lionel Richie as if still matters and carrys weight?

what gets me is a few things

He proved himself as a great talent with the commodores and it carried over into his solo career and he brought it on stage,etc..

he never changed who he was or what he did.

what offends me is that you act like Lionel Richie went from being Gill scott Heron or Curtis Mayfield and then morphed into Ben Veren or Stevie B??

point i was saying like a James Brown record is that Lionel never changed his formula from jump and i found the title wrong and in truth in hindsight all R&B acts that crossed over back then were in the same boat as him.

i don't control nothing or try to, however i found the obvious thread and title personal and i spoke out on it and question why in 2011 would anybody go back 30 years to a completely different time and era of Black music to single handly pick on Lionel B.Richie at a time when cross over was very much in swing and yet the bottom line you had to have the songs to count and matter.

the songs were always there for Lionel.

and you know I'm ole school because i really got heated when you said Jeffrey osbourne. i mean JO was always doing his lane.

i mean we could name just about anybody that cross over back then really Man.why Lionel?

you can even think this post was directed just at your love of Lionel Richie...

but when you started to call me names and throw out personal attacks you crossed the line. The fact you still haven't really backed away from any of that and continue to try and justify what you did here tells me all I need to know moving forward.
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if i offended you or anyone else then I'm sorry,

and i felt offended by Lionel B.richie being a target and i felt a backhand diss as well.

i got respect for you and as a Brother we just differ on this Music front, it got personal to me because this felt so old and i was like who is bringing this kind of argument up in 2011?

but again if i said something that offended you or anyone else then I'm sorry, however i will defend Lionel B.Richie and he is very mucha a Soul brother.

>if i offended you or anyone else then I'm sorry,


If I offended you?

What the blood claaat ???

Only fucked with high yellow or white bitches, made some weak ass robotic cold chesse funk gets on stage with the funkiest black man of all time and goes full white boy rocker on us

Whoever you are you're nothing but an instigator with nothing worthwhile to add.
_________________________________
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what cracks me up is that cats embrace Jay z for his success and he is letting everybody know he has passed elvis presley for most career number 1 albums

sales on Kayne West and he wants to win every award

Lil wayne always close to a Million copies sold on opening week be it Baby helped or not dude has a strong base

back in the day Lionel,Michael,Prince,Rick,El,Whitney,Anita,Janet,sade,Billy Ocean, peabo,Kool and the Gang, Pointer sisters,Stevie Wonder, Marvin gaye, Earth,wind and Fire, etc.. and sad to say this because it killed the man musically in alot of ways Luther Vandross was more desperate for a cross over pop number 1 hit than a Plate of ribs after a while.

however Lionel B.Richie is the golden whippin Boy for reasons i'll never get.

like the brother didn't have a great career in the commodores and did the thing solo and also live just look at post #176 live at the Olympics.

LBR brought it and is the truth, but this old hatin trips me out. these cats are on this 1982, 1983,84,85,86 hate still on Lionel B.richie after almost 30 years.

they made at Lionel like he got the last Jerri Curl bottle and there hair went brick and was hard to comb or something.

yeah they did like to come at me in a duo form.

i ain't worried about neither of them because i know thangs in that business about as much as they do and i ain't ever gotta roll like that.

they like to roll like a clique and that is on them, but glad somebody else notices how they try to come at a brother sideways up in herre. Peace out ONN.

>what cracks me up is that cats embrace Jay z for his success
>and he is letting everybody know he has passed elvis presley
>for most career number 1 albums





What does Jay Z have to do with this?


>sales on Kayne West and he wants to win every award

What does Kanye have to do with this?


>Lil wayne always close to a Million copies sold on opening
>week be it Baby helped or not dude has a strong base

What does Wayne have to do with this?:



>back in the day
>Lionel,Michael,Prince,Rick,El,Whitney,Anita,Janet,sade,Billy
>Ocean, peabo,Kool and the Gang, Pointer sisters,Stevie Wonder,
>Marvin gaye, Earth,wind and Fire, etc.. and sad to say this
>because it killed the man musically in alot of ways Luther
>Vandross was more desperate for a cross over pop number 1 hit
>than a Plate of ribs after a while.


This is all well and good Maxx...and thanks for the history lesson...But this has nothing to do with you personally disrespecting folks throughout this post just because they don't agree with your views...



>however Lionel B.Richie is the golden whippin Boy for reasons
>i'll never get.
>
>like the brother didn't have a great career in the commodores
>and did the thing solo and also live just look at post #176
>live at the Olympics.
>
>LBR brought it and is the truth, but this old hatin trips me
>out. these cats are on this 1982, 1983,84,85,86 hate still on
>Lionel B.richie after almost 30 years.
>
>they made at Lionel like he got the last Jerri Curl bottle and
>there hair went brick and was hard to comb or something.
>
>yeah they did like to come at me in a duo form.


Nah...OP has been one of the biggest dudes in your corner Maxx...U know this...He just got tired of this hypocrisy and disrepsct you've been throwing at people...



>i ain't worried about neither of them because i know thangs in
>that business about as much as they do and i ain't ever gotta
>roll like that.
>
>they like to roll like a clique and that is on them, but glad
>somebody else notices how they try to come at a brother
>sideways up in herre. Peace out ONN.

Dude...we are not the Wonder Twinz...lol...And no one is out to get you...Like I said, you have a vastly high opinion of yourself to think that we are conspiring against you...lol

What folks generally want is for you to lower the volume and respect folks...It's just that simple...You can think that Lionel is the greatest songwriter of all time...And I would be good with that because that's your opinion...

But leave all the name calling and dishonesty at the door...It's not cool.....Especially when u know cats are not coming at you that way...

Stick to the facts, stick to your guns and keep it moving...But the weird, over the top bullshit insults are not needed...

Dig?

went after me through Lionel Richie and that ain't funny at all.

this thread should have never been made and Jeffrey Osbourne was a thin veil attempt at getting at me.

i know one thing Lionel B.Richie is Blacker than the both of you put together I know that.

that title of this thread is self hating and offensive what you need Dr.phil to come on down and tell you the many different ways it is?

anybody with two good pair of eyes know there is a Clique between you two at getting at me and then that tired old foolnish to diss Lionel Richie is horrible.

naw you both pony rode off my thread which i pointed out Jay Z, Kayne west and Lil Wayne.

they would be considered sellouts now wouldn't they?

all 3 of them grin and stay in the cameras showing this off and that off, you ain't never seen Lionel B.Richie like that Brother has stayed humbled.


Props to Bro man up above for telling it like it is.

i'm use to haters its cool, i know whats up.

the Irony is that Lionel Richie has brought a whole lot of races together, but some hating stuck in a time warp with played out views, still harboring old ill will because of success and then going after me for defending him as a Artist?

ya'll made it personal.

everybody back then was a cross over looking for the dollar and grinning for the camera.

i was there back then and whatever you want to make one person guilty of then everybody else is as well.

lionel richie's solo music mostly sucked.

the end.

in his pinky than you got in your whole being. if you opened up for Lionel B.Richie he might be kind to allow you to Mop the floor with some Mr. Clean because that is the only way you would shine on a stage turkey.

you really do like the worst music.

apart from mj, everything you like is garbage.

i mean

your whole fucking outlook is bullshit.

stop being a pathetic, snivelling little bitch.

for once.

addendum-

also

you really shouldn't bring up my music, when YOUR shit makes wesley willis look like marvin gaye.

just saying.

Maron 5 lite in the cakes watered down wanna be songs as if you got any real hope?

you gonna be a broke Tom Jones Lounge act at best turkey and you ain't no music taste at all you are just a rider period, i've peeped your game and it is wack.

i know one thing if I get serious on the Mic, I'd take your audience and you would have to buy me drinks to get your audience back.

of course if they listen to your tired act then it ain't hard to take no way.

and your music threads and takes?___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________





Blanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you're a fucking joke.

or perhaps you're just tragic.

doesn't matter to me. i get to point and laugh anyway.

I listen to your podcast Shock cause it has some good songwriting in there.

For me, Lionel is a treasure of composition so I just gotta state my disagreement with your characterization. He is such a natural songwriter...pure flow....with unexpected changes. Ritchie is truly a master of pop art.

ideas from folks. he don't know much of nothing and it shows. he is a rider and rides in the backseat with the clique. spineless and lame.

another Jive turkey. most of these cats in here hating don't know nothing about no songwriting they just know beats and Grooves and it shows. you can't have no real music conversation with them because they lack that understanding and vocabulary of the concepts and timing with lyrical phrasing and timing of the chords and Progressions.

they don't understand that science.

i know that much.

thanks for listening.

i guess that there are many well-crafted songs that i don't enjoy. i think that abba were terrific at what they did - but i'd never choose to listen to them.

What the blood claaat ???

matter of fact i watched an interview with him on this very type of topic and he was making a point that he wanted to take his music to as many people as he could. you see as a Music historian I know he is channeling Ray Charles with the hybrid and other stylings he does.

ain't no Brother who has been through what he has and as Educated and knowledgeable as Lionel B.Richie want to hear another Brother say he is WhiteBread after all of these years??

this thread is Garbage and Black on Black Hate period and I took it offensive.

Lionel didn't make a 180 degree turn around from what he was doing with the Commodores.

they don't have a leg to stand on, so they have resorted to some played out middle school dissing on Lionel.

sorry if i get passionate over a Great Artist who is very Black and made a difference.

and this thread title is offensive sho nuff.

and so is your music taste.

this is hardly new.

.

Shout out to Old Pro (wherever u r...)

are doing it up. I ain't never seen Lionel RIchie on stage with some Broke Go'Go's ever and you won't.

you ain't never seen Lionel with a Busted Afro Wig and a Busted Band behind him trying to charge Rent Money off of Poor souls. what a Jive turkey Prince is? and sounded all wonder bread on that rock and roll affair which sounds like a constipated Bob Dylan with a busted afro.

>are doing it up. I ain't never seen Lionel RIchie on stage
>with some Broke Go'Go's ever and you won't.

>>are doing it up. I ain't never seen Lionel RIchie on
>stage
>>with some Broke Go'Go's ever and you won't.


Even when's dude is laughably taking L's he can pull off the funny...

you need look no further than the 1990s (and ironically, that was when he was running to Black folks the hardest after his dalliances "above it all")

I mean, just say "Jughead".
Just say, "My Name Is Prince"
Just say, that whole "Symbol" shit.
Just say... some shit from the Rave album.
Just say, "Goldnigga". Really, you should just go right to Goldnigga.
It wasn't released under his name, but dogg...

now they'll answer back, "Well, Prince earned the right to make blah blah blah"

well, shit, Lionel earned the right to make Schwebel Bread music after playing his dues, getting them plaques, and making those hits.

People mad at that dude for real, because you ride for him.

it's hilarious.

he sold out so badly in the 90's that he was truly white bread, because that chicken roaster Head Turkey was trying to do Reggae lite and it was corny

his rapping was corny

his new jack swing attempts funny

when he tried to bite the G Funk Era it was comical.

in truth Prince was like Paul Shore being stuck in the Hood and trying to fit in and it was a era of errors for Prince.

Lionel Richie never played himself out as badly as Prince did.

no wonder you used a Symbol, should have been a symbol with a turkey Logo and a Sell Out cat who wanted to be Black and yet sounded like somebod impersonating what should have come natural.

i heard all them horror regular records and outtakes and Prince was like Dakota Moon as a Opening Act on Def Comedy Jam

he just lost the plot.

to jack from.

was fucking awful.

kirky j and tony m and all them were just awful for prince.

'the truth' was an oasis in the desert of 90s prince.

that's a good fucking album. better than anything he's done since SOTT - and even that was nearly 20 years ago.

a lot of people dig the rainbow children. i am not one of them.

>was fucking awful.
>
>kirky j and tony m and all them were just awful for prince.
>
>'the truth' was an oasis in the desert of 90s prince.
>
>that's a good fucking album. better than anything he's done
>since SOTT - and even that was nearly 20 years ago.
>
>a lot of people dig the rainbow children. i am not one of
>them.



I agree...."Get Off" was "cool" and tolerable...But on those other P-is-rapping song...Yuck....(Diamonds And Pearls has it's spots and the good songs are truly good...But then there's "Jughead," easily the worst thing Prince ever recorded...)

But I def. see your vision...The Truth was indeed special....It's the only'90s work along with .Graffiti Bridge (the soundtrack, not the horrible ass bullshit movie...Anything that has "Joy In Repetition" on it, can't be hated on...), the Gold album,and Emancipation (there's something on that 3 headed monster for everyone) that makes that decade bearable....

The rest of those '90s albums especially Rave? Man..that shit was some horrific shit...lol

and 'the question of u' is also fantastic. as is 'thieves in the temple' - though i know that songs has its detractors, i love it.

and the rest of the prince songs are generally cool on 'graffiti bridge', but it's pretty patchy otherwise.

it's too bad 'the truth' was buried on that crystal ball set. that album - even with the supremely goofy 'animal kingdom' - was something completely new and unique but still intrinsically prince. he sings the lyric 'my only competition is, well, me in the past' - but this is the only album from the 90s where 'him in the past' wasn't kicking his arse.

If he made more "Can't Slow Down" type songs in the 80s, I would have been cool with it. But...

and that was dancing on the celing however it ain't like that album was exactly different to what he had been doing up until that point so all this Lionel Hating in the 80's a bit much.

using one bad song against Lionel ain't even right after you stack his catelog up against other acts it holds up mighty well IMO

well, not just "off"... he went all the way to the shallow end of the pool with (the song) "Dancing On The Ceiling".

now you compare that title track to the title track of "Can't Slow Down" when he's getting his MJ on... I wish he had more of that on that album.

That's seriously one of Lionel's most underrated songs, it kind of reminds me of "Tell Me" and "Serves You Right" but more uptempo.

i mean at the end of the day ain't many acts seeing that man's catelog period and the run he had.

i mean in Black World after Michael Jackson he is the next most successful artist to leave a Group and be even bigger and have bigger hits solo, that don't happen every day period.

Sting ain't had no Lionel Richie solo career and he tried real hard as have others.

>he sold out so badly in the 90's that he was truly white
>bread, because that chicken roaster Head Turkey was trying
>to do Reggae lite and it was corny

U really don't understand what selling out means...That's not Prince selling out....Now that Rave album...That was some REAL sellout shit....


>his rapping was corny

This ^^^^was true...So very true...

>
>his new jack swing attempts funny

Beyond "Get Off,"...I agree....

>when he tried to bite the G Funk Era it was comical.

I loved that Shock G remix of "Love Sign" though....


>in truth Prince was like Paul Shore being stuck in the Hood
>and trying to fit in and it was a era of errors for Prince.

This is actually funny, even if it's over the top...lol


>Lionel Richie never played himself out as badly as Prince
>did.

Nah...Prince doing hip-hop was P's attempt to keep up with the cutting edge of black music...And it had some horrible moments beyond 3 or 4 good releases....But selling out? Nah...

Selling out is shit like "Dancing on the Ceiling"...That shit tops it all...That's some true sellout shit...The only thing that Prince has ever done that slightly rivals that is that aforementioned Rave album...Nigga tried to pull a Santana-Supernatural and caught a BIG L...lol


>no wonder you used a Symbol, should have been a symbol with a
>turkey Logo and a Sell Out cat who wanted to be Black and yet
>sounded like somebod impersonating what should have come
>natural.
>
>i heard all them horror regular records and outtakes and
>Prince was like Dakota Moon as a Opening Act on Def Comedy
>Jam


All in all, Prince trying to keep up with the "rap" race was some pretty bad shit...

But he certainly made up for it on the Graffiti Bridge soundtrack (as I've said before, the actual movie was torture, but the songs were vastly underrated) The Gold Album, The Truth, and Emancipation...

That's my view on things....

shock g could do no wrong back then and his usage of the vastly superior DMSR elevated the fuck out of that lame arse song.

i've always thought that the gold experience was massively overrated. what do you like about it?

as for emancipation?

WAAAAY overlong and the production is mostly awful. admittedly, there are some gems on there, but

ugh.

>shock g could do no wrong back then and his usage of the
>vastly superior DMSR elevated the fuck out of that lame arse
>song.
>
>i've always thought that the gold experience was massively
>overrated. what do you like about it?



It's Prince's best 90s effort after The Truth..I like the guitars...I like the swagger...I dig "Pussy Control" (this is the Prince "rap" I like, similar to "Irresisitable Bitch"...Nasty and hilarious...)..."Endorphinmachine," "Billy Jack Bitch," "Eye Hate U," "Shy"...Nah...that was a damn good album...




>as for emancipation?
>
>WAAAAY overlong and the production is mostly awful.
>admittedly, there are some gems on there, but
>
>ugh.


Again, when I think of awful Prince releases, Emancipation is the last thing that comes to mind...For many of its flaws (remember, this is a 3 albums..u will get some filler) there are so many dope moments on that album...Some of P's best 90's statements..."Right Back Here In My Arms" is just pure Prince..."White Mansion," "Mr Happy" (another "fun" Prince song), In This Bed I Scream" (some first-rate shit)...And that's all just on the first disc...

I ride for Emancipation...P pulled off some ballsy, Prince-like, I'm-still-a-bad-muthafucka shit with that release....Laid his nuts out and said, "Here...watch this!"...

Now when it comes to that AWFUL Rave album.....

I just can't...lol

>It's Prince's best 90s effort after The Truth..I like the
>guitars...I like the swagger...I dig "Pussy Control" (this is
>the Prince "rap" I like, similar to "Irresisitable
>Bitch"...Nasty and hilarious...)..."Endorphinmachine," "Billy
>Jack Bitch," "Eye Hate U," "Shy"...Nah...that was a damn good
>album...

i did like, nay, love 'eye hate u' and billy jack bitch and also pussy control.

the rock stuff also sounded awfully cheesy in comparison to the rock music i was starting to discover (having been an r&b/hip-hop kid). and then 'dolphin'?

jesus christ.

and 'welcom 2 the dawn' was disappointing. i'd been waiting since the sign of the times liner notes for

that?

but maybe i'm being too harsh. wait was 'days of wild' on that album?

man, fuck TGE.

to be honest, i think a lot of my rancour for that album comes from how it had been built up by the NPG in interviews beforehand.

and 'shhh' is a little creepy, no?


>Again, when I think of awful Prince releases, Emancipation is
>the last thing that comes to mind...For many of its flaws
>(remember, this is a 3 albums..u will get some filler) there
>are so many dope moments on that album...Some of P's best 90's
>statements..."Right Back Here In My Arms" is just pure
>Prince..."White Mansion," "Mr Happy" (another "fun" Prince
>song), In This Bed I Scream" (some first-rate shit)...And
>that's all just on the first disc...

the first disc is easily the best disc. and, yeah, they're some good songs. "in this bed i scream" in particular. i just wish he hadn't gone for that glossy 90s r&b production. it did not convince. "right back here in my arms" would have been all the better without it.

in all honesty, though, i did go through quite some time where i loved that album. it just hasn't stood the test of time, imo.

and, yes, the less that's said about 'rave', the better.

(what the fuck was he wearing on the cover?)

>>It's Prince's best 90s effort after The Truth..I like the
>>guitars...I like the swagger...I dig "Pussy Control" (this
>is
>>the Prince "rap" I like, similar to "Irresisitable
>>Bitch"...Nasty and hilarious...)..."Endorphinmachine,"
>"Billy
>>Jack Bitch," "Eye Hate U," "Shy"...Nah...that was a damn
>good
>>album...
>
>i did like, nay, love 'eye hate u' and billy jack bitch and
>also pussy control.
>
>the rock stuff also sounded awfully cheesy in comparison to
>the rock music i was starting to discover (having been an
>r&b/hip-hop kid). and then 'dolphin'?
>
>jesus christ.
>
>and 'welcom 2 the dawn' was disappointing. i'd been waiting
>since the sign of the times liner notes for
>
>that?
>
>but maybe i'm being too harsh. wait was 'days of wild' on that
>album?
>
>man, fuck TGE.
>
>to be honest, i think a lot of my rancour for that album comes
>from how it had been built up by the NPG in interviews
>beforehand.
>
>and 'shhh' is a little creepy, no?
>
>
>>Again, when I think of awful Prince releases, Emancipation
>is
>>the last thing that comes to mind...For many of its flaws
>>(remember, this is a 3 albums..u will get some filler) there
>>are so many dope moments on that album...Some of P's best
>90's
>>statements..."Right Back Here In My Arms" is just pure
>>Prince..."White Mansion," "Mr Happy" (another "fun" Prince
>>song), In This Bed I Scream" (some first-rate shit)...And
>>that's all just on the first disc...
>
>the first disc is easily the best disc. and, yeah, they're
>some good songs. "in this bed i scream" in particular. i just
>wish he hadn't gone for that glossy 90s r&b production. it did
>not convince. "right back here in my arms" would have been all
>the better without it.
>
>in all honesty, though, i did go through quite some time where
>i loved that album. it just hasn't stood the test of time,
>imo.
>
>and, yes, the less that's said about 'rave', the better.
>
>(what the fuck was he wearing on the cover?)


It was a horrible album--Rave...I mean, there are 3 joints on there that I actually dig ("Tangerine" being one of them)....But for the most part there's some embarrassing shit on there...

That was "Sell Out Prince" all day...

joy in repetition was a old late 80's song. most of graffiti bridge was a collection of old outtakes period and prince was jacking everybody with that record.

he jacked that title in part from jimi hendrix's rainbow bridge and tick tick bang jacked hendrix's little miss thing and no credits


thieves in the temple the groove jacked michael jackson and paul mccartney's say,say,say and the video for thieves jacked mj's video routine for "the way you make me feel"

tevin campbell round and round was Michael jackson meets soul 11 soul. that was a sell out move there.

graffiti bridge was a corny attempt at a "back on the block" Quincy jones esque project very blatant i might add.

Emanciapation was prince's corny attempt with trying to hang with R.Kelly, babyface and them horror and bull covers.

" the truth" was ok, though prince and acoustic doesn't do a whole lott for me.


but he stunk in the 90's over produced under written songs and his material overal was sub par.

prince spent most of the 90's trying to comeback. he ain't never recovered and the 90's was a joke era for him on a whole.


one gimmick after another. prince was acting like a used car salesman.


unless you eating purple cookies and drinking that pur kool aid, prince sold out and was a joke in the 90's.

however purple diabetics will justify " the most beautiful girl in the world"???????

prince jacked that song and it was used for a beauty pagant show, i mean Bob Barker was grooving to it along with Mike Wallace and Walter Cronkite.

Prince was keeping them grooves in the 90's funky for the "friends" set. Jennifer Aniston and Courtney Cox were pop locking to "cream"" my name is Prince" and "dolphin"

>joy in repetition was a old late 80's song. most of graffiti
>bridge was a collection of old outtakes period and prince was
>jacking everybody with that record.

They were written by Prince...About 3 of those tracks date back to 86-87...The rest were new..."Thieves In The Temple" was among the new tracks recorded and an actual hit...As was "Round & Round"...So yeah...Not sure what any of this means...



>he jacked that title in part from jimi hendrix's rainbow
>bridge and tick tick bang jacked hendrix's little miss thing
>and no credits

>
>thieves in the temple the groove jacked michael jackson and
>paul mccartney's say,say,say and the video for thieves jacked
>mj's video routine for "the way you make me feel"
>
>tevin campbell round and round was Michael jackson meets soul
>11 soul. that was a sell out move there.
>
>graffiti bridge was a corny attempt at a "back on the block"
> Quincy jones esque project very blatant i might add.
>
>Emanciapation was prince's corny attempt with trying to hang
>with R.Kelly, babyface and them horror and bull covers.
>
>" the truth" was ok, though prince and acoustic doesn't do
>a whole lott for me.
>
>
>but he stunk in the 90's over produced under written songs
>and his material overal was sub par.
>
>prince spent most of the 90's trying to comeback. he ain't
>never recovered and the 90's was a joke era for him on a
>whole.
>
>
>one gimmick after another. prince was acting like a used car
>salesman.
>
>
>unless you eating purple cookies and drinking that pur kool
>aid, prince sold out and was a joke in the 90's.
>
>however purple diabetics will justify " the most beautiful
>girl in the world"???????
>
>prince jacked that song and it was used for a beauty pagant
>show, i mean Bob Barker was grooving to it along with Mike
>Wallace and Walter Cronkite.
>
>Prince was keeping them grooves in the 90's funky for the
>"friends" set. Jennifer Aniston and Courtney Cox were pop
>locking to "cream"" my name is Prince" and "dolphin"


Man...u desperate..."Say Say Say"????

lol
>

he jacked things. even when prince did that interview in rolling stone back in 90 he was non plus about those songs. called them a bunch of songs.

no matter what you say graffiti bridge was a jacker album. tevin campbell in the video sang and danced like MJ. double "L" for Prince there.

sold out and been White bread for the longest time. acting like the song graffiti bridge wouldn't work at a Olan Mills" backdrop for a family picture?

diamonds and pearls the theme song is good exercise music for Richard Simmons.

I'm going to take it easy on you...because this hasn't been a good month for you, dog...

what you mean not a good month for me? yeah Michigan Woolverines lost and that was tough, but what else been tough?

the Miami Heat looking good and unbeatable

my buffalo bills got good picks

new york yankees are ok still a long season

and what else?

R.Kelly number one Musical Genius in your magazine.

what you gotta say? Prince has sucked as a studio artist for 2 decades.

he NEVER crossed over as a solo artist -- I mean, cmon dogg, George Duke produced him. The closest anything George Duke produced anything crossed over, no matter how hard he tried was "Let's Hear It For The Boy" (and George Duke hated the shit outta that song, LOL)

>he NEVER crossed over as a solo artist -- I mean, cmon dogg,
>George Duke produced him. The closest anything George Duke
>produced anything crossed over, no matter how hard he tried
>was "Let's Hear It For The Boy" (and George Duke hated the
>shit outta that song, LOL)


Oh...I agree...lol

It's just funny as all hell...

There shouldn't be one vote for Osbourne. Lionel Ritchie did his shit to the point you never woulda knew he was a Commodore.

>There shouldn't be one vote for Osbourne. Lionel Ritchie did
>his shit to the point you never woulda knew he was a
>Commodore.



^^^^^ bang bang....

he had a run unlike so few others, turkeys act like he morphed into what atlantic starr, billy ocean and what luther did in the 90's. give me a break

>he had a run unlike so few others, turkeys act like he
>morphed into what atlantic starr, billy ocean and what luther
>did in the 90's. give me a break


Lionel influenced those acts to go that bullshit route...Especially Atlantic Starr and Luther...Great way to connect the dots without even knowing it...

atlantic star hit with secret lovers back in 85 right after stevie wonder did part time lover. get your acts and hate straight playa.

luther wanted cross over just as nuch as Andre 3000 wants to sing and play guitar and be seen and heard as a black rock god. it ain't no puzzle there homie.

Luther wanted that Chi town Cheese cake factory money

>atlantic star hit with secret lovers back in 85 right after
>stevie wonder did part time lover. get your acts and hate
>straight playa.

LOL...what does any of that have to do with my point??...

Lionel had already built that model before that...Songs like "Truly" was the forerunner of that shit...Can't Slow Down came out in 1983...So yeah...Lionel had already set the stage for that MOR bullshit..

>luther wanted cross over just as nuch as Andre 3000 wants
>to sing and play guitar and be seen and heard as a black rock
>god. it ain't no puzzle there homie.
>
>Luther wanted that Chi town Cheese cake factory money

Yep...Luther def. wanted that crossover...Because he saw how it could be had from the King of MOR himself, Lionel...

Lionel changed the music business in that way...A lot of black "singers" went that uber syrupy pop ballad, uptempo route...

Unfortunately, we have Lionel to thank for that..

wrong Man, because Dionne warwick and Johnny Mathis had set the path

truly was on the same blueprint as Oh no and three times a lady and still.

its was always there period.

when exactly did he change? its not like he went from Adore to the Arms of Orion?

and FYI Luther on all of his sony albums always had a classic Cover song which was for Cross over now show me where Lionel did that again exactly?

your hate don't even make much sense especially since Lionel always had that Ray Charles hybrid thing going on

larger than life cross over back during a time when other successful black acts were doing the same thing.

yeah Lionel had a band of all races in his band

his Guitar Player's father was on the board of the grammys

he had Italian Managers who only worked with some of the biggest Black cross over acts of the day

he wanted to open up for a White major act like the Rolling Stones and didn't want to be Black labeled as a Artist

he wanted to get on MTV badly and allowed them to interview him while he hardly ever talked to the black press

Oops i'm not talking about Lionel Richie.

i don't know what old pro is asking

>i don't know what old pro is asking


That's an interesting 'hood there, Fire, Fire...lol (jokes)

in the '80s. they dropped off, but only after he went too far. (which is usually the case).

listing Jeffrey Osborne REALLY made this post confusing.

now had it been someone like Gregory Abbott (though, who knows his catalog beyond that one song?) ....

because aside from that cut he is known as Robert Deniro's brother in law because Gregory's sister been married to Deniro for years.

that S curl Green eyed bandit turkey one hit wonder. or the Butch Johnson California Quake S curl one hit wonder

I'm trying to understand what kind of Bigger Thomas ghetto these people come from where black folks were not checking Lionel Richie (and feeling glad that I did not grow up there)

Lionel had cats bumping his stuff.

you might get mugged with "Hello" playing in the background and there was nothing to it.

and " stuck on you" was blasting at the local Laundromat or Washetera

depends on where you lived and where you washed your clothes.

thinking cats in the Hood didn't watch Casey Kasem and keep reaching for the stars?

Hood Loved Lionel RIchie and knew where he was on the charts.

>Oops i'm not talking about Lionel Richie.