I was reading a story with the familiar trope of someone purposefully just recording a bunch of gibberish with no meaning and immediately being hailed as avant garde genius. Ha ha, jokes on the listener! That sort of thing.

It made me think really hard if there was anyone that I thought actually did that. I have to admit I was stumped. (I generally am skeptical of that view point anyway.)

But lots of people listen to Free Jazz or some Modern Classical and honestly seem to think the artist is playing a joke on us. I even read that recently about Satie!

I've heard things about Lou Reed's Metal Machine Music, but I've never heard it. And while I know it's not generally espoused in the Lesson, I've heard the same rumor about Here My Dear.

Also have heard that supposedly Aphex Twin plays jokes on the listener with songs that are meant to be bad. Skeptical of that too.

But who do you think really is playing a trick on the listener--knowingly faking it and hoping the critics/listeners fall for it?

i suspected R. Kelly was doing it w/Trapped in the Closet and 'Thoia Thong' and others.

Man, R. Kelly I have no idea. It's hard to figure out where his head is at. He definitely knows he's having fun and not taking everything super seriously, but doesn't seem like he'd actually put out music he didn't think was good on some level.

he said in some interview that the song really wasn't about anything and he scoffed/laughed at those who dug for meaning in it. then he said he'd written other songs like that, but i'm not sure which he named, if any.

that he decided to write I Am The Walrus because everyone was digging for meaning in EVERY song they recorded.

So he basically I Am The Walrus and said something like "let the fuckers figure that one out"

Which is funny, because the meaning that a few people came up with from that song actually makes sense.

How it was about Paul being the Walrus and leading the Beatles to mislead the public with silly pop music etc.

Not sure if I totally buy it, but it is an interesting theory.

'. . .the Walrus was Paul.'

Confusing.

~Austin

Lil B with damn near everything he's released.
Trolled everyone with the "I'm Gay" album title, and it's damn near the best music he's ever released.

Do I think he puts his blood sweat and tears into writing his rhymes? No. But I think he just freestyles what he's thinking because that's the approach he's feeling right now. Maybe he also likes how little preparation it entails, but I think he is partaking of the Kool aid, in addition to administering it.

that fool made a song w/big tigger telling girls to move their body like a snake. that was clearly a joke he was playing on his audience.

with Trapped in the Closet. It was suppose to intentionally be a comedy (Not in a it's so bad it's good way), he's talked about it in interviews ( http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2007/11/r_kelly_answers_our_questions.html ) and really I can't see anything that would lead me to think it was serious (The old man he plays, midget lovers, him constantly just showing up smoking and winking in the camera).

It was suppose to intentionally
>be a comedy (Not in a it's so bad it's good way),

But like Post #1 proves ("I suspected R. Kelly was doing it w/Trapped in the Closet") some ppl for whatever reason still unsure so I guess it'll be mentioned.

it was increasingly clear after that, as the absurdity heightened.

I don't know, that's just one guess as to why maybe the general public doesn't automatically think being 'ironical' is a major aim of his art.

At the end of the song, you hear him laugh. And, it wasn't some kind of fake, I'm enjoying myself immensely type of laughs. It was one of those sinister, "Look how mufuckas gonna eat this dumb shit up" type of laughs.

He knows what he's doing, illiterate or not, because, as he proved with his latest album, he can turn that shit off when he wants to.

________
Big PEMFin H & z's
█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
http://concretesoundsystem.com
The Underbelly - http://bit.ly/f5BmBR
RIPL - http://bit.ly/e5wzxn
Mo'Nium - http://monium.tumblr.com/

...like, "Fuck it, let's see if they actually release this shit."

You don't think he thought he was onto some other shit with that album?

--
by ezraz of 2MERICA

http://2MERICA.com :: new citizen welcome kit

http://WFNK.com :: my personal blog

http://FLUXADEL.com :: the recording division

__
I don't like the beat anymore because its just a loop. ALC didn't FLIP IT ENOUGH!

Flip it enough? Flip these. Flip off. Go flip some f*cking burgers.(c)Kno

Allied State of the National Electric Beat Treaty Organization (NEBTO)

www.FRESHselects.net

FRSH SLCTS - out now:
Illmaculate x G_Force - The Green Tape http://bit.ly/frKjhn
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...in the liner notes of the Stones Throw 45s Compilation that came out back in '02 or so.

But, there was no denying that beat, which is what I think pulled most people in. I couldn't tell you one thing Dudley says on that song other than flowers.

And, him and Mad were actually able to stretch a whole album (a pretty good one at that) out of that concept. Problem was, by the second album, the gig was up.

(and birds sing sweeter
than books
tell how)

...those two kats don't take things seriously on a certain level other than Madlib making dope beats & Declaime riding those beats very well, but both of them knew that Declaime singing was a joke to begin with, just like when Madlib was just playing around with his voice for Quasimoto character he made up.

Not on his albums...but just in general

I don't think he's trying to make an artistic point. I think he thought "here's a way I can make money without having to do anything and *crosses fingers* maybe, just maybe, it will feed into my mystique."

A few years ago, he did start cancelling shows due to what seemed to be health issues that put him out of action (there was a brief period of "DOOM is dead!" rumors floating around). That lead to him re-scheduling all the concerts, and then for whatever reason (persistent health issues or just lack of desire to go out on the road), I'm guessing he just said, "Fuck it, it's just me wearing a mask up there, I can get someone else to do it." Which lead to him sending out other people wearing the mask, which lead to the outrage, which I'm guessing lead to him creating this whole idea of "Doompostas."

He's a good rapper, sure, but not performing like that is just bitchmade.

Mainly because I was stuck up there as the DJ trying to keep that hostile crowd calm while they realized after 20 minutes that he was not about to show up. I hear that he released a press statement the day before saying he wasn't showing, but nobody at the stage was contacted or had any idea...so Murs didn't know to tell the crowd until like 20 minutes after he was supposed to start...we all just knew he wasn't backstage at all. I was hoping he would have at least let somebody come out in a mask

You can never overestimate the levels of self-delusions artists can reach, especially if it involves convincing one's self that plain old laziness is actually an act of artistic audacity.

>You can never overestimate the levels of self-delusions
>artists can reach, especially if it involves convincing one's
>self that plain old laziness is actually an act of artistic
>audacity.

In my best Lana (from Archer) impersonation.

I really do think that some folks get to a point where they think they can shit on wax and it'll be hot.

It's just Rivers' bread and butter was writing song about being an awkward teen/early 20's person and now he's so far removed from that he just comes off as corny.

>It's just Rivers' bread and butter was writing song about
>being an awkward teen/early 20's person and now he's so far
>removed from that he just comes off as corny.

it's that it meant something. It was earnest and genuine, and people related to it, specifically Pinkerton. But River's, after it's failure, has resorted to taking himself out of his song writing and has instead become nothing more than a jingle writer. It's not that those songs are an apex in song writing. It's that he was writing with emotion, instead of "Your Slayer tshirt fit the scene just right..." or whatever the fuck that bullshit line is.

Red Album (Deluxe) was FIRE

Hurley was a solid 7 out of 10

Death To False Metal was Pretty good for a collection of old, unreleased material.

More specifically, Green album + Maladroit era.

Unfortunately, I do think that everything afterwards has been serious, just not very good.

from http://www.avclub.com/articles/volume-34-june-2010,56486/

>“OMG” feels unmistakably like an endgame. In keeping with Will.iam’s
>mission to destroy/subvert pop music from within, it is the product of
>two men mad with the furtive knowledge that the public will embrace
>anything they release, no matter how transparently ridiculous and
>insulting it might be. And releasing a single called “OMG” with
>Will.i.am is as insulting and ridiculous as you can get.

>

>Usher and Will.i.am broadcast their contempt for everyone and
>everything with their dispirited delivery of couplets like “Honey got
>a booty like pow pow pow / Honey’s got some boobies like wow oh wow.”
>These are grown men that wrote that song, men with families and homes
>and mortgages, men who command respect in their communities through
>virtue of their money and power alone. These professional musicians
>have a powerful forum to communicate their ideas. Instead, they chose
>to write the lyric “Honey got some boobies like wow oh wow.”

album where avey tare had the whole thing play in reverse

'everybody's rockin'' pisstake album, but that joke wasn't on the fans or critics


>Also have heard that supposedly Aphex Twin plays jokes on the
>listener with songs that are meant to be bad. Skeptical of
>that too.

check "aphex airlines"

rumor:

"Richard was commissioned by Virgin Airlines to write a song for a television commercial, and he came up with the track Aphex Airlines. According to him, the song is supposed to represent how a jet engine feels at take off. Not surprisingly, the Virgin people didn't feel that the song would be very appropriate, they thought it would make people think of airplane crashes."

in fact, this appears on a compilation released by virgin records, so the rest might be embellishment

Just listened. I'd be more inclined that he is messing with us by making up that backstory than him actually messing with the airline. Or it's just some random piece of invented mythology that someone came up with and came to be accepted as true.

>check "aphex airlines"
>
>rumor:
>
>"Richard was commissioned by Virgin Airlines to write a song
>for a television commercial, and he came up with the track
>Aphex Airlines. According to him, the song is supposed to
>represent how a jet engine feels at take off. Not
>surprisingly, the Virgin people didn't feel that the song
>would be very appropriate, they thought it would make people
>think of airplane crashes."
>
>in fact, this appears on a compilation released by virgin
>records, so the rest might be embellishment

______________________________________________________________________________

"There's a fine line between persistence and foolishness..."
-unknown

"To Each His Reach"
-George Clinton

"Satie was a sort of trickster composer for whom the joke is entirely on us."

Maybe just one person's crazy opinion, but it sounds to me like he's probably parroting something he heard elsewhere. I don't know, maybe to a diehard Mozart fan, it does sound like a joke. "He's not even using both hands!" Who knows.

Have you ever looked at one of his actual scores? He left notes for players like "play this song while thinking about seahorses" and other random ass bullshit. He was the inspiration for John Cage who composed 4'33", the ultimate musical practical joke. So, yeah, he's definitely a joke composer.

Lou tried to say it was a screw you to his record company but it's not like Lou wasn't involved with avant garde stuff before (The first 2 albums have tons of feedback) and after the record. Plus I doubt he'd preform it live recently if he did it as a joke, not to mention release a live album version of it. It's experimental and not meant to be a perfect record but definitely was serious, the numerous amount of musicians/artists that call it an influence I think prove that.

I would say a joke but the raps are actually pretty good.

I feel like he thought he was channeling Slick Rick and the like, and thought it was fresh and creative in that respect...but there's no telling whether or not he realized at the time that MOST things that get praised about "golden age" rap are label as pretentious, self-indulgent, etc. if done in a modern context.

Badu...constantly holding back on vocals in studio, relying on her "style" of expressing herself and sometimes delivering lazy vocals live ...she's great but if she cleared away the anchors she could really sail.

>Badu...constantly holding back on vocals in studio, relying
>on her "style" of expressing herself and sometimes delivering
>lazy vocals live ...she's great but if she cleared away the
>anchors she could really sail.

Definitely her last album was a joke. I don't give a fuck who wants to call it "artistic". That shit just sounds like "lazy ass mofucka trying to trick me out of my money" music.

I'm not inclined to think that she's fucking with her fans, just where she's at.

Here's my take - i think most of the artists these days with songs on the charts are ripping us off. i honestly think an artist going avante garde and trying to emotionally construct music outside of the standard format is more interesting than 90% of the hits of the day.

Who's to say if that artist is serious or not? Trying something different is much more difficult than doing the same old same old. Buying a beat from the most commercial producer you can afford is easier than constructing something new from inside of you.

So I think the more hit record sales, the more the artist is getting over on us. Faking. Going the easy route. Real artists hit real hard, and usually swing in several directions at one. Bouncing and cooing and bragging is not art, it's tease.


--
by ezraz of 2MERICA

http://2MERICA.com :: new citizen welcome kit

http://WFNK.com :: my personal blog

http://FLUXADEL.com :: the recording division

They're talking about songs that weren't suppose to be serious but were taken or released as such. What that has to do with commercial vs. avant garde is beyond me.

Bob more or less has said things to support it.

refrain for three straight minutes, yet somehow still manages to be a good song.

He isn't even coy about it, his lil shit-eating grin says it all.

And, I'll even go further than just Not Afraid but the entirety of his last two albums. Even down to his flows.

It really think he said to Dre, "Check this out, I'm a make the worst music I ever have. Shit, I'm a even rap all off beat. But, watch, these suckas are still gonna eat it up. All because I'm the great white hope."

It has to be. This is the same dude that did Any Man, Lose Yourself, Stomp and the entire Marshall Mathers LP. He has to know this shit is wack. I mean, he had Just Blaze sample What Is Love. What is love?!

It all has to be a joke...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CU6AQIuf-go

Not quite the same as it wasn't directed at the listener, but the closest thing I could think of was the van morrison bang records contractual obligation stuff, "ring worm," etc., which at least is an authentic example of an artist intentionally recording gibberish:

"Ring Worm"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLRfksG2ZqU

"You Say France and I'll Whistle"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gwq5PNe-ou8

...that allowed him to release any damn thing he wanted. I don't see how MMM wasn't thrown back in his face after he submitted it. I really, really can't see how they (the label)even decided to press it up and release it after hearing all of that noise.






Since 1976

http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/default/files/styles/image_full_width_scaled/hash/e6/c7/e6c7ca608ccfe3b0915675500232d783.jpg

There's the "I KNOW this beat is dope.......so I'ma let it ride for :15 seconds then cut it off".

OR "this beat is dope so I'ma put some silly dialogue over it so you can't really vibe to it".

OR "ok ok, I let the beat/song ride for a few minutes so now I'ma give you a 3 minute skit".

OR "I'ma give you a dope beat......with no talking over it....AND I'll even let it ride for a minute or two, BUT I'ma eff up the mix so bad to see how much you really love raw, grimey, lo-fi hip-hop".

OR "alright, I know you've heard this beat before on a previous album.......and on a previous Stones Throw podcast.....and on a BBC mix show......and on another mix...but I'ma give it to you just one. more. time".






Still my favorite artist of this past decade but I believe him, PB Wolf, and company do like to play around with people.

__
I don't like the beat anymore because its just a loop. ALC didn't FLIP IT ENOUGH!

Flip it enough? Flip these. Flip off. Go flip some f*cking burgers.(c)Kno

Allied State of the National Electric Beat Treaty Organization (NEBTO)

Also, sometimes there's just the "is he serious with this one?"

e.g.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&NR=1&v=MERftryvPMg

Am I missing something?

But enough that I put it on a recent mix I made for myself.

I mean, I like degraded left-field electronic music, so I wouldn't expect everyone to like it.
But I can definitely see how Madlib would have thought that was cool (instead of saying Ha I'm going to prove these fools will listen to anything with my name on it).

>Also, sometimes there's just the "is he serious with this
>one?"
>
>e.g.
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&NR=1&v=MERftryvPMg

I know DarkStar (who used to post here) made that comparison

Infact Madlib said plenty of times before that Lord Quas was just him fucking around with his voice over some random beats, and never expected for Wildchild or PPW to think that others would take it seriously; but us listeners like it (well I do anyways).

Even after compiling and releasing "Unseen" he still didn't think it would do the numbers that it got or be as popular as it is for something that he wasn't even thinking about releasing at one point, I'm glad PPW thought it would be worth the time and effort to release that album cause it's Madlib's best album to date...still.

...let's NOT act at least half of WTT was some bullshit them boys just threw together to see what would happen...same goes for their last two albums...

..i'd say Wayne does it, of course Kells does it, Puff does it, Em does it (not as much tho..he just keeps doin his "schtick" until people get tired of it, which at this point, will be never) , Snoop does it....