... ain't all that strong.

Truthfully I'm not sure it's better than Keyshia Cole's up to this point. Yeah Keyshia has dropped 4 albums to Aaliyah's 3 but she has done that in 5 years where as Aaliyah took 7 for 3.

Does Aaliyah have a few classic cuts? No doubt... but her albums aren't all that strong really. Now don't get me wrong I don't think Keyshia is making great albums either but I think she has just as many good tracks as Baby Girl does. There has been a lot of revisionism since Aaliyah's death. I know for a fact that "One in a Million" wasn't being called a 4 1/2 star album (as Allmusic.com has it now) when it dropped. Solid album... yeah but gtfoh saying that shit is a half star away from perfect.

What really drove this home for me was when I was listening to that compilation album "I Care 4 U" that dropped right after her passing. I realized that everything you need from her is right there on that best of joint.... even at that the track list was padded because truthfully she don't have enough cuts over 3 albums to really do it up right.

So in summation, Aaliyah was a beautiful girl who died a tragic death but as an artist she isn't nearly as special as some folks want to make her out to be.

"Re-Elected Bitches"
_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

Latest episode- WONDERland

Aaliyah's hits are way bigger and her album cuts aren't bad either. When you got MONSTER singles you ain't gotta release new shit every other year.

Back & Forth (Original & R Kelly Remix)
Age Ain't Nothing But A Number
At Your Best (You Are Love)
Hot Like Fire
One In A Million
A Girl Like You
If Your Girl Only Knew
4 Page Letter
Giving You More
Heartbroken
Never Comin' Back
Ladies In Da House
Are You That Somebody?
Try Again
We Need A Resolution
Loose Rap
Rock The Boat
More Than A Woman
I Care 4 U

...are all better than anything Keyshia Cole could ever dream of recording (not that I would ever listen).

That list is padded as hell

"Re-Elected Bitches"
_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

Latest episode- WONDERland

there are very few cohesive r&b albums in my opinion.

But I'd still stop short of calling it great

Her first and third are spotty to put it kindly... the first one sounds dated as fuck too

"Re-Elected Bitches"
_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

Latest episode- WONDERland

she had some good cuts on there. it's much more listenable than her 1st album, to be sure. nice production on several of those tracks.

Problem is there's only 3-4 of them

"Re-Elected Bitches"
_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

Latest episode- WONDERland

she was just getting started.

And no disrespect, but there're no new flags anywhere. I don't get how people got the impression Aaliyah was supposed to be Minnie Riperton? She's just an average R&B singer who knew her limits but still worked what she had the best way she knew how.

>She's just an average R&B singer who
>knew her limits but still worked what she had the best way she
>knew how.

and not a damn thing wrong with that.... she got a good number of cuts I really enjoy.


"Re-Elected Bitches"
_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

Latest episode- WONDERland

because IMO if R and her stayed the course She would have been the Janet Jackson of her era.

Back and forth,age ain't nothin but a number at your best remix

then her on his albums was on point.

they could have been unstoppable as a duo for many years IMO.

when she went and worked with Beat-makers and the fact she was just ok to begin with only watered it down even more.

Keyshia Cole is just a updated Broke Hood version of Mary J Blege and a another Ashanti, though Keyshia Coles keeps me glassy eyed on her looking good.

> She would have
>been the Janet Jackson of her era.


That's the greatest appeal, that an artist like JJ had an heir apparent. Focusing on vocals diminishes Janet also. The catalog of hits cannot be separated from the visual aspect of choreography in both cases. Add enhanced production values to the dance numbers and voila: Aaliyah was getting to the 95 dollar and up ticket price range and only death stopped her. If you look at her catalog in that context, you see the juggernaut that was forming.

I usually like her music more than her voice.

**************************************************
tREBLEFREE & DVS Jackson are:
The Waldorf And Statler Experience
Balcony Music

Volumes 1, 2 & 3 available now at http://waldorfandstatler.bandcamp.com

most of the nostalgia for her hinges on her *potential* to become a breakout star, not any notion that she has all these amazing songs.

however, i'd strongly disagree w/the notion that the one in a million album wasn't considered *great* when it came out. black teens were on that album something TOUGH.

they may show up here.

i've been continually amazed by them.

So I know first hand the crazy shit that comes out their mouth

"Re-Elected Bitches"
_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

Latest episode- WONDERland

Sup wit dat?

Actually, I can't even name a Keyshia single. But I'm also white as shit besides the fact my favorite music is black. So maybe I'm an unregistered voter here. I honestly cant' think of a Keyshia Cole song.


~~~~~~~~~
I don't check my inbox.

http://rateyourmusic.com/list/Nodima/run_that_shit__nodimas_hip_hop_handbook

http://www.last.fm/user/NodimaChee

http://www.potholesinmyblog.com

http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517

At least Aaliyah new the limits of her instrument and didn't try shit she knew she couldn't sing.

I've heard that shit coming out of cars all over the Bay.... well maybe because it's the bay lol

"Re-Elected Bitches"
_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

Latest episode- WONDERland

So, there. LOL. I'm aware of the hits when I go out and I know we got Keyshia fans in this city but man I ain't seeing 'em.

~~~~~~~~~
I don't check my inbox.

http://rateyourmusic.com/list/Nodima/run_that_shit__nodimas_hip_hop_handbook

http://www.last.fm/user/NodimaChee

http://www.potholesinmyblog.com

http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517

i'm sorry...the singles?

as short a time as she was here--One In A Million, Are You That Somebody, Try Again, We Need A Resolution, and a grip of her other shit, pushed things forward in pop and set standards that keyshia doesn't even have the mental capacity to *want* to try for.

the influence of her and timbo's work was huge
even a bunch of culturally coveted indie rock bands (that i can't be bothered to list), and cats that would fall more under the umbrella of "formal musicians" than pop stars or beatmakers run around talking about how big all that stuff was for them, influentially.

good luck getting something like that out of keyshia. (just keeping it real.)

>i'm sorry...the singles?
>
>as short a time as she was here--One In A Million, Are You
>That Somebody, Try Again, We Need A Resolution, and a grip of
>her other shit, pushed things forward in pop and set standards
>that keyshia doesn't even have the mental capacity to *want*
>to try for.
>
>the influence of her and timbo's work was huge
>even a bunch of culturally coveted indie rock bands (that i
>can't be bothered to list), and cats that would fall more
>under the umbrella of "formal musicians" than pop stars or
>beatmakers run around talking about how big all that stuff was
>for them, influentially.
>
>good luck getting something like that out of keyshia. (just
>keeping it real.)

automatically made her more intelligent and capable than Keyshia Cole? That reads like some classist nonsense. I could see if you knew them both in a personal capacity, but I doubt you do. Unless I'm mistaken, the production and arrangement on those songs you listed is what really qualifies them as progressive in the first place.

KIMBO PRICE

they do end up having some kind of a say in what their "sound" is..

aaliyah could've decided to roll with whatever hot-at-the-time producers had made the now more dated/less interesting cuts on One In A Million.
It's not like timbo was katy perry/JT status at that point... he just had a good buzz.
(a buzz that really received its *serious* substantiation beyond gin's "pony" *after* his work with her had come out.)
...but she had the good ear/mindset to roll with the dude who was clearly more progressive.

keyshia could make the effort to reach out to someone doing something a bit more interesting like timbo was at the time, but...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdLAvOMHpqo

EDIT: the only reasonable excuse is that aaliyah existed in an era where R&B/Hip Hop resided in the center of the pop zeitgeist...and people bought records.
i.e. as much as the genre was lamented back then, in retrospect there was still a lot more leeway to have your cake and eat it too, so to speak.
whereas keyshia has existed mostly in an era where urban music's pop value has been notably maligned, therefore in a business sense she could risk making herself invisible in an already partially commercially dormant genre... but in my eyes that's all the more reason to just go ahead do the hail mary throw... be as left as you wanna be, fuck it.
(but she would have to want to be.)

yep!!!

But Keyshia got nicer mammies.

they will lose their mind. To them Aaliyah was about to be the next Janet Jackson and she was also on the verge of becoming a major motion picture star.

I'm thinking back to everyone that proclaimed the greatness of Baby Girl and I think they've all been right there in that range

"Re-Elected Bitches"
_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

Latest episode- WONDERland

black folks who are her age. i was in college @ an HBCU the day after she died....there was seriously a pall over the campus. folks were DE-pressed. especially the chix who got part of their shine off being aaliyah-like (lol but 4 real doe).

she DID have that star quality while alive, but 10 years later it's definitely refracted even more through the gone-too-soon lens than it was back then. you gotta remember that for my generation, she was the first female star to die an untimely death like that. let folks have their memories & mythos lol.

She was "one of them" so they feel as though she was cut down before she could fully realize her greatness and no one can compare to her. My sister and all her friends would still argue that she was on her way to Janet/Madonna level fame.

Done dressed for Halloween, and when we had to do a presentation on '90s hip-hop, I did the whole 2 hour thing except for the part about R&B because ol' girl HAD to put her Aaliyah outfit on and talk about her and Chili being the coolest bitches on the planet.

Keyshia Cole don't got that kind of power, death or not.

~~~~~~~~~
I don't check my inbox.

http://rateyourmusic.com/list/Nodima/run_that_shit__nodimas_hip_hop_handbook

http://www.last.fm/user/NodimaChee

http://www.potholesinmyblog.com

http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517

To me she has albums that you can listen to all the way through. It is a damn shame that her last two albums have not been reissued! You are not doing yourself justice with her greatest hits. Her third album needs a deluxe edition. Static(R.I.P) did a great job on the third album. Also, it would be nice if there could be an official release of the MASTERS AT WORK mixes for "More Than A Woman".

I MISS YOU BABY GIRL!!!!!

Check out NEW Soul music at: www.myspace.com/starbeing

Bumpin in the STEREO:
Jennifer Hudson-I Remember Me
Various Slave albums
Ashford & Simpson-Come As You Are
Mint Condition-7
Chuckii Booker-Chuckii
Tawatha-Welcome To My Dream

My favorite song by her:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7E8YGLg1nk

Check out NEW Soul music at: www.myspace.com/starbeing

Bumpin in the STEREO:
Jennifer Hudson-I Remember Me
Various Slave albums
Ashford & Simpson-Come As You Are
Mint Condition-7
Chuckii Booker-Chuckii
Tawatha-Welcome To My Dream

it doesnt hold up as an album

she has a good greatest hits cd, but thats as far as it goes

people just buy into the aaliyah thing a lot cos of how she looked imo

but theres not much of an interesting backstory for her to even become a myth like a billie holiday or even a diana ross

I mean....very few people are out there talking about, "OMG you have to hear Babygirl's take on 'Got to Give It Up', she & Slick Rick transform it!" LOL

Bottom line, of the 3 Black teen pop girls (her, Brandy & Monica), she was far and away the sexiest, and people dug her style & thought she would blow up more. Y'all are making her phenomenon out to be way more than what it is.

Also, tapedeck's replies have to be jokes lol

No jokes.

Check out NEW Soul music at: www.myspace.com/starbeing

Bumpin in the STEREO:
Jennifer Hudson-I Remember Me
Various Slave albums
Ashford & Simpson-Come As You Are
Mint Condition-7
Chuckii Booker-Chuckii
Tawatha-Welcome To My Dream

be able to say that.

that's where the argument is

since her demise. That first album has a half album of legit songs right there, maybe even 3/4. I can still play that album like it's nothing.

She was four (WOW Really?!) albums and her best of wouldn't be half as good as Aaliyah's.

I don't think she was the greatest, but she was very well loved and I believe that's why people responded to her death the way they did.

"...and pardon if it sounds a lil wheezy,
it's not Wayne mothafers, got asthma, it's not easy"

it's unfair to speculate on how much better she could've gotten in future, but essentially saying her music didn't mean shit to ppl BEFORE she became the go-to posthumous r&b goddess ain't fair either (or that we're past the 'Aaliyah is the greatest' worship and can finally see her discog as the average affair that it is...not so). and in reference to her music holding up, that entire argument is subjective in relation to the person's own experience. for instance, u can't discount my love for her music just becos i grew up on her first two albums and associate em with my burgeoning feelings of love, and falling in love for the first time. those are my connections to her music from adolescence into my teens. to ME, her first two albums hold up REAL well. i can acknowledge there was and will be better singers than her that make better music. but at the same time i can pop on either album and listen to em all the way through. even "OIAM" which might sound scattered due to the splitting of the production duties, the Timbo tracks hold up supremely well (as do all of Tim's first-run work with G & Missy n Aaliyah). but "Choosey Lover"? y'all didn't like it? "Got To Give It Up" will still get a party jumpin today. the title track, whether u wanna admit it or not, is also still a big kick in the ass and considered an r&b CLASSIC. she wasn't even 18 at the time. man, the potential she had will always outweigh the scant few albums she managed to release before the plane crash, but i can't clap to denigrating her discog becos of it. her music and my para-social r/ship with her persona say otherwise. if u add the remixes and other assorted Tim-related work she's been involved with, u could compile a great Best Of (and Best Ofs in general are barometers for an artist's greatness now? she got better cuts than those that appeared on "IC4U").

in terms of the kind of sound she was starting to lean toward as she got older with her music, it was slightly darker, add to that the fact she had discovered Lewis Taylor only a year or so before her death, so who knows how that could've influenced her future work.

i think time & place plays a huge part too. ask my anyone my age now (26 and above) in Australia who grew up on the early 90s r&b stalwarts (Kells, Jodeci, Aaliyah, Guy) and they could give a fuck about Keyshia Cole. i dont think ive ever heard a Keyshia song let alone an album. she just never factored into the scene here. Aaliyah was quite prevalent tho, and is still largely appreciated by all the same ppl in my vicinity who i grew up with. i dont know anyone who i associate with from my immediate area (that is, the entire state of Victoria/city of Melbourne) that even knows of or listens to or RATES Keyshia Cole.

lastly, Aaliyah had that extra somethin. i know it's often brought up to justify the worship, but whether it was choosing to roll with Timbo before he was seriously a force to be reckoned with, or the (seemingly maligned) "mystique" factor (the hair over the one eye thing, her general laid back, reserved but fly girl u could kick it with persona), i know *i* loved her as much back then as i did after her passing. i'm not making any of this up to dissuade this largely unnecessary post criticising a dead girl's music who never lived past 22, simply saying whatever made her so loved existed while she was still on this Earth.

but i forget that OKP doesn't like to include personal connections when judging an artist's output or that artist as a whole :/ clearly her music meant and continues to mean something and holds up and all that good stuff that makes her worthy of mass praise. for u it's like peering from the outside in, for a lifelong Aaliyah fan it's like u were there from the beginning and were part of the ride so our POV on EVERYTHING is gonna be counter to ur experience. and of course there's all the distortions that come with an artist's untimely demise and all the complicated emotions that arise as a result (wat SoWhat refers to as the "cult" part of the worship). ain't that standard behaviour tho?

V.

or that it shouldn't mean anything to you or anyone else
we're talking about people that overdo the shit
her catalog is FAR from incredible or untouchable, that's what we're saying, and her acolytes won't have that shit because of that connection
same thing with Lauryn Hill, except she hasn't kicked it yet
you can't go off shit that wasn't made when talking about catalog, just off what we have, and her albums were, as a whole, lacking
her singles? excellent
and "Choosy Lover" is a remake that she didn't have the ability to make her own, so that doesn't really count as a high point in her career to me (even tho I like her version of it)

but they're usually the minority. most fans i've met are just music lovers n nerds and act with respect. as far as Aaliyah nutjobs, i haven't seen evidence of that much on OKP. u see that kinda shit mostly on YouTube vid comments where all the crazies convene and be crazy. i just felt like, im not a crazy person, and i love the shit outta Aaliyah (not just the personal connection but for the music too). so doesn't the criticism kinda include ppl like me as well? n im not delusional either, im a fan but not 'teh crazy'. i think her place in r&b history is there for a reason that has nothing to do with a premature death. so i still feel the need to defend her (and my) position. the implication is that Aaliyah's music, no matter how highly regarded, is inferior. and i don't agree with that sooo......
.....wat now? lol.

V.

and its not about her music being inferior, just that in the eyes of her acolytes its put over shit that's better just because it's her
there's no need to defend what you like, unless you know the shit is wack as fuck and even then iont wanna hear it
but nah we're not talking about you and people like you, Qually

id continue this convo but i gotta go take a shit, smoke some shit n watch some shit...yeh. lol.

V.

self titled album...that one, unlike her first 2 albums, was fucking brilliant and showed a lot of promise.
Unfortunately she died quickly after and we've probably missed the opportunity to see her peak

i only liked half of it upon release, then she died and i didn't listen to an Aaliyah song for nearly 6yrs. so..took me a while lol, but ye, that album's dope. "I Can Be" is nasty. Static did a lot of good work on that. only track i coulda done w/out was "I Refuse". still don't like it.

V.

but it would be interesting to see parallel if say Rihanna's life was cut short.. everyone would argue she had some monster singles but shit albums..

One in a Million is still a dope album to me, the 1st album is dear to me because her voice had way more range than any of them after and to be 15 she had exceptional vocal control when you put things into perspective considering technology wasn't where it is now a la auto tune now. The last one you could tell her & Timbaland were just getting started on something that potentially could have been great down the line.

imo Aaliyah had dope songs on their own..but how can you judge one off 3 albums???? I always say it's like saying Big was the greatest off 2 albums, shit just don't mesh.

Whoever said she was everything for any female around 30 from that era (I'm 29) hit it on the nail. She wasn't stuck up or portraying something she wasn't like some females of that era and we gravitated towards that. She's EVERYTHING that Keri, Ciara etc aren't. She knew her limits and worked it with dope production and played up her dancing. THAT is the reason she could have very well been the next Janet(who at one time played to the same strengths and weaknesses).

-I would scrap that greatest hits
-I would add extra tracks to her first album including the remix for "At Your Best"
-I would do deluxe editions of the 2nd and 3rd albums
-I would put all of her songs from soundtracks on a special collection
-I would reissue all of her cd singles
-I would do vinyl versions of her albums/12 inches on colored vinyl
-I would use digi packs for her cd albums

Check out NEW Soul music at: www.myspace.com/starbeing

Bumpin in the STEREO:
Jennifer Hudson-I Remember Me
Various Slave albums
Ashford & Simpson-Come As You Are
Mint Condition-7
Chuckii Booker-Chuckii
Tawatha-Welcome To My Dream

How does the comparison of these two artists even make any kinda sense?

Aaliyah is a dance-pop icon, multi-media threat.. along the lines of Janet Jackson, Madonna, etc..

K. Cole is a straight ahead urban songstress/vocalist.. along the lines of Mary J. Blige or Faith Evans..

Their catalogs can't be compared side by side because other than the superficial similarities of r&b, young, pretty, black females, etc.. they are not the same type of artist.. at all.


White Bronco.

>Their catalogs can't be compared side by side because other
>than the superficial similarities of r&b, young, pretty, black
>females, etc.. they are not the same type of artist.. at
>all.

It's not hard for anyone to listen to each ones catalog and say which one is more enjoyable... we do this with artists all the time. Doesn't mean they have to be alike or anything like that. People looking for comparisons are missing the whole point... I didn't start out saying KC was Aaliyah 2.0 or anything... It just kinda hit me that Keyshia has as many good songs as Baby Girl does.... and I don't think of KC as a great or legendary artist. Some of you are looking for an agenda in this post when there really isn't any.

"Re-Elected Bitches"
_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
Bringing Together Five Decades of R&B/Funk/Soul/Dance

http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/

Latest episode- WONDERland

Oh okay.. point taken.




White Bronco.

And, especially with the self-titled album, overstated its quality.

(hell, even I'm guilty of that)

I mean, she was never anything more than a pretty face and an awesome voice to sing the songs. Granted, she did that really well, but in retrospect, her catalogue was indeed very spotty.

Which is all you can expect from a big budget, assembly line singer.

She did have potential to grow into a very rewarding and possibly even mature adult contempo r+b sort of thing, but sadly it just wasn't meant to be I guess.

~Austin

showed a lot of potential for the future..as far as her making quality music the more of a star she became (because that doesn't always happen.....see beyonce)

I will say this though that Timb and Missy were really locked in with her on their production and writing for her..

>I will say this though that Timb and Missy were really locked
>in with her on their production and writing for her..

Static too(R.I.P). He wrote her some tight tracks. Its like all of them belong together.