>That only makes that quote worse. It's patronizing.
>America's notion of 'hip' is alot more complicated than simply
>being of african origin.

Again: I don't understand the kind of wit-deficit that would make someone go to such great lengths to deconstruct what is just supposed to be a brief and pithy quip... but sure: let's go there.

Yes indeed there are a number of sources for the American-style swagger that has defined coolness for the world over the past century. But a few questions:

-Did the concept of "hip" (or before it, "hep") originate in the African-American community?
-Is the word itself generally traced to the Wolof language of West Africa?
-Did its popularity in mainstream America come from its use by white "hepcats" who built their identity around emulating African-American mannerisms?
-Do the rhythmic qualities that tend to define "hip" (whether it be in music, speech or just physical movement) generally come from African-American sources?
-Does the majority of "cool" American music have African sources? Or at the very least, sub-Mason-Dixie sources?
-Is Southern culture in itself a hybrid that was created with a strong African-American influence that was exerted upon both blacks AND whites in the region?
-Do not many white people use the term "white" to describe a certain kind of squareness (self-deprecatingly or not)?

Just in case you are wondering, the answer to every one of these questions is "yes."

As such, the Brian Eno quote rings of truth.


>I never spoke of MJ being gay in direct relation to my
>understanding of 'human nature'. But MJ was gay. And so was
>Human Nature. That's how I said it.

Okay. Would you have said that "Human Nature" was a gay anthem had it been released by Toto rather than by the "gay" Michael Jackson? And what evidence do you have to support Michael Jackson was gay?

By the way, he very well could have been... I don't know. But I'm just interested in why you're so comfortable repeating that over and over without offering a shred of evidence to support it.

Or is it just more of your "speculation"?

>If I remember correctly...I asked if that was a fair
>characterization. That Osadebe could stand as an example of
>Nigerian pop music before JB and Fela after JB's influence.

Okay. I'll give you that. My bad.

>Man...read my post. "Only speculating here but......" You're
>trying to paint me into something I'm obviously not. I don't
>search the internet for information....I don't have the facts.
> I've always indicated when I'm speculating.

Right. But those who do believe that they wrote them and HAVE searched for information and supposedly found information from people who might know a little bit about the situation--those people are, according to you, "fools."

If you were truly "depending on your ears" as you claim, you should have just said "It doesn't sound like J5 wrote them.... they don't sound like stuff they'd write" etc.

(Of course, even that statement would have been problematic as you don't have any songs they wrote from the same period to compare)

Instead you start talking about how the writing credit was "promotions" and anybody who believes it "is taking credits too seriously." Unless you can provide some sort of solid evidence, that is a pretty baseless statement. Similarly baseless is the speculation that the song were probably in J5's repertoire as there are load of live recordings from the period and (to the best of my knowledge, anyway) there's no record of them singing those songs.

And even if indeed those songs just happened to be in their repertoire, you think they'd be able to get away with claiming *full* writing credit on them without SOME kind of legal action? In the early 1970s music business? Even Berry Gordy couldn't get away with stealing full credit from songwriters... he at least left them with a partial credit. And Joe & the Jacksons didn't have anything approaching the kind of clout Berry did.

None of your theories make sense to me. Just say that you don't think they wrote the songs and call it a day.


>Yah well hopefully we'll all learn the truth. You ask me? The
>J5 did not write those songs.

Fine. Your opinion, your right.