first of all, MistaVee, I never expected to see this from a cat like you, but I'm assuming we're all just here for the sake of the discussion.

>(a rant)
>
>simple.fucking.formula.
>
>i'm sick of seeing the same ol "lay down UR hard-earned cash
>so artists can keep doing what they're doing" bullshit.

What qualifies it as bullshit?

as far
>as i'm concerned, artists can make their money offa selling
>their product themselves online and at LIVE shows (which is
>where the real proving ground is, and also where artists got
>the potential to make lifelong fans who WILL buy their
>shit...if it doesn't suck ass, of course).

I addressed that in an earlier reply. I hope you saw it. ( and "suck ass" is relative, of course. One man's junk, right? )


it's a fucking LIE
>that everyone buys everything that they love anymore, so can
>we stop acting like this is some ideal we as music aficionados
>have to live up to? music is out there everyfuckingwhere. if i
>can expand my knowledge and palette via downloading, then fuck
>you i'm not gonna let some half-assed pride bout how things
>used to be done stand in the way of that.


fair enough. But you haven't demonstrated why you're entitled to do that, other than you *want* to do it.


>
>why should i or anyone else in this day n age follow that old
>annoying mantra of "PAY FOR THIS or u are a tyrant who is
>killing music"? we all know it's not like that anymore.

Sure it is.


>actually to ME it seems like the pressure should be on the
>"artistes". are u putting ur foot into ur work? does it sound
>GOOD? FINE then i will either purchase or think about
>purchasing and most-definitely see you live.

Again, your WHOLE premise is, "If *I* don't like it, I'll decide if it's worth paying for..." And sure, that works for ANYTHING. But like 'KAP said, do you use the same logic for shitty food and drink, movies, etc? and its not like you ate, drank and watched the shitty movie and THEN decided you weren't paying...





drop some doodoo
>and demand fan-loyalty and compensation? u can go fuck urself.

but shouldn't fans ( by definition) be loyal?


>musicians don't have a monopoly on self-righteous
>pay-me-just-becos-i-do-art douchebaggery.

how is it self-righteous? and not everybody is getting paid *because* they make art. Some people need to get paid so they can *Afford to* make art.

if we wanna take a
>chance on ur shit, we will. but nowadays...we have OPTIONS,
>and that's pissing ppl off. i think more than anything it's
>the fact consumers have some power in the way things work
>now.


but how are you a consumer if you're not paying for shit? See what I'm saying?


>
>i feel like, ok everyone rails against labels and SUITS for
>turning music into a business devoid of passion or originality
>or any of that touchy-feely shit we associate with so-called
>"real" music. but im fuckn sick of artists who are clinging to
>the same old system the suits enforce when they say shit like
>this. the game's changed forever dude, we hear ur shit whether
>u like it or not.

understood.


and the only way i can see it benefiting
>artists, is if their shit don't STINK. the onus is on artists
>to deliver, otherwise WHY the fuck would anyone drop some cash
>on it?

relative term.


unless ur an artist/group with a huge fanbase
>(commercial or underground) with ppl ready n willing to spend
>on whatever new product thats available (due to a good rep
>that's usually built up over time due to constant release of
>GOOD MUSIC). but even then, we'll still be downloading becos u
>just never fucking know anymore what's gonna move u and what's
>not. if we got that luxury as (cash-strapped) consumers, why
>wouldn't we take it?

there's no all-encompassing gauge for "good" or "bad" music. So we'll never agree on that logic...



and if ur an artist who's worried bout
>making ends meet? GET A SECOND JOB.

and becuase nobody buys music, that's what a LOT of artists do. To pay for putting shit out.

holy shit, we're not
>automatically programmed to support all ur asses.

true.

>
>"taking a chance" on something doesn't cut it anymore. i used
>to take plenty of chances that cost me $30-$35 a pop. now it's
>been almost 3yrs since i last bought a physical album on CD
>cos i got duped too many times (HOW many times have u heard
>this line or something similar to it? cos it's the fucking
>truth, not some whiny excuse: TROOF).
>

So, you making bad choices is at the root of it all. Let's call it what it is. Whenever I buy something that sucks, *I* have to take the "L". I can't blame the artist. He put out some bullshit, but *I* bought it. That ain't HIS fault. Sure, he made some wack shit, but I STILL had a choice. and let's be real. There's really no excuse for buying shit blind, with sound snippets, Youtube and artist websites playing samples.

You're my man, Vee, but seriously, you're making excuses with that "got beat" shit.





>i mean isn't it time this debate EVOLVED a little? are artists
>just scared that consumers are gonna freely obtain their shit
>without blindly buying off the strength of one or two good
>singles all the time?

maybe...

and what about indy artists re-iterating
>the same tired industry shit about consumers = evil &
>musicians = entitled? how the fuck does that compute in an
>indy setting?

not sure what you mean here.

are we sposed to buy out of sympathy? lol. i
>mean cmon. no artist out there is ENTITLED to ur money.

agreed. You don't have to buy out of sympathy. But you SHOULD buy out of respect and or a sense of fair play. If you don't like it, cool. Don't buy it, and you won't 'get beat' for it. But don't try to justify what you're doing.




>CONSUMERS, on the other hand, are entitled to NOT PAY FOR
>SHITTY MUSIC.
>

true.