thinking back to what happened on the game's mixtape and raekwon's 3nd leg of his career not involving his input, got me to thinking why doesn't he get MORE props.

he never stacked up against other producers on BIG producers project:
did he stand out?

he hasn't worked with enough marque solo acts: Jay-Z, Nas, Eminem, Snoop, Wayne, etc...

biggest breakout was....Method Man "all i need" remix

add on.

He'll be on my top 2 (next to Dilla) forever thanks to the first wave of solos and 36 Chambers + Forever (duh),but the past 8 or 9 years he's been mostly not so good. Ionno.

its impossible to do so. 93 to 97 is undeniable. Primo is the only one that can match him during that time period.

I actually have never heard someone say he wasn't.

Pete / Primo / RZA are the Top 3 without a doubt.

of course there are many that will sub in Dr Dre for one of those which is cool, just not my personal preference.

but if people honestly look at it;

36 Chambers
Tical
Return To 36
Only Built 4 Cuban Linx
Liquid Swords
Ironman
Forever

plus he has tons of material on Wu-related projects (Gravediggaz etc), on soundtracks (Tragedy etc), movie scores, the othe Wu albums have great material, other Wu solos that he participated in had good material.

He is easily Top 3 imo.

.

rza seems to be left off that list
i wanna hear rza/nas...etc.
I THINK HE'S GREAT, just like Mannie Fresh...which is another post.

he ain't worked with no heavy hitters in a minute. i don't know the reason though

He made movies in album form for the collective of rappers he branded.

Now, he's rich & doing other things (acting, film scores, etc).

None of that means that he, Dre, & Preem aren't the Holy Trinity in terms of rap history.

jay-z would've rapped on havoc/rza tracks
i could've seen him doing this in my lifetime vol.1 or even hard knock life

been doing for other beast MCs outside of the Wu in the mid-to-late 90s.

Perhaps that might have been different if 'The Flood' hadn't occurred but really I don't think RZA was going to deviate from the 'five-year plan' so it likely would have had to be post-Forever regardless.

>jay-z would've rapped on havoc/rza tracks
>i could've seen him doing this in my lifetime vol.1 or even
>hard knock life

I could see it.
Jay didn't sound half bad on that "hardcore" New York backdrop

Or was there a preliminary version of Volume 1 you're referring to, a la I Am...?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DitP6zlxWTE

Nah.

(One of) the biggest producer(s)/artist(s) in the hip-hop industry today asked for the RZA to both produce music and rap on his last solo album.

and has credits on MBDTF and Watch The Throne... smdh

this post is dumb

his status might change due to his work on that kanye album. also last five years i would take his beats over last five of preemo or Dre.

but I see what you're saying regardless.

twy and guess

ha ha ha lol'd hard at this.
But I think this topic is in regards to his production, not his abilities as an emcee.

PR
RZA
Primo


my top three in no particular order because i cant chose

he didn't do the remix to All I Need, only the album version....the remix with Mary J was produced by Puff Daddy actually...at least that is who got credit if i remember correctly...

The puff daddy remix is the alternate version on the single which isn't the video version. That version is wack in my opinion. RZA produced the original and the good remix.

but im pretty sure the puffy mix was what they played on the radio around my way...dont remember the video much

SQQQQQAURE BIZ.....(pause)....SQQQQUARRRE BIZ

Can't put cat in the top 5, like someone else said, the last 8-9 years have really blemished duke...top 10 no doubt...here are my top five...no real order...

Pete Rock
Dilla
Primo
Large Professor
The Grand Wizards/Questlove/(whoever does the Roots ish)

because their work this past decade ain't been as good as RZA. especially not LP

you said that already

haha

Extra P is a legend, the stuff he had ghost produced alone is of legendary status...Eric B and Rakim ish, Kool G Rap ish...I have done some studying, and if you ask Pete/Primo, they will tell you that duke is a beast, taught those cats alot...bottom line is that his resume is just a little deeper than RZA...RZA comes in at the 6 spot for me...super dope...

Pete has done ALOT of dope ish the past 8-9 years, just gotta dig a little deeper to find it brother...just a couple examples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScvejyuVF-8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILzwN0GM5OE

Dilla is a strong #2

Change Dilla to Kno, and I agree with this guy..

And I honestly think RZA is in pretty much every Hip Hop head's top 5.

Never liked his beats.

Sound quality is awful....and I know that's partly by design....but I'm convinced it's not even a choice for him. He just doesn't have any technical knowledge.

His editing is sloppy as hell. Loops don't even loop properly. Again, I'm sure someone will say that's by design as well.

No swing in his beats. Even when he manages to put things ON TIME properly....the rhthyms just don't have any dynamics or feel. boom boom clap....boom boom clap. No sense of swing.

There is no musicality or musical sense in those beats. Again, it's by design.

But hey....I like good sound, I like proper editing, I like good sense of swing and I like hip hop that has a musical sensibility. That's why he's not even in my top 20.

>Never liked his beats.
>
>Sound quality is awful....and I know that's partly by
>design....but I'm convinced it's not even a choice for him.
>He just doesn't have any technical knowledge.
>
>His editing is sloppy as hell. Loops don't even loop
>properly. Again, I'm sure someone will say that's by design
>as well.
>
>No swing in his beats. Even when he manages to put things ON
>TIME properly....the rhthyms just don't have any dynamics or
>feel. boom boom clap....boom boom clap. No sense of swing.
>
>There is no musicality or musical sense in those beats.
>Again, it's by design.
>
>But hey....I like good sound, I like proper editing, I like
>good sense of swing and I like hip hop that has a musical
>sensibility. That's why he's not even in my top 20.

As much as I LOVE the "digging in the crates"-philosophy of early 90's NYC Hip-Hop, it had a tendency to get too smooth or lounge-jazzy after a while (compare "Midnight Marauders" to "Low end theory", compare "Main Ingredient" to "Mecca...", compare Large Professor's initially unreleased "the LP" to "Breaking Atoms"). I think RZA gave NYC a kick in the ass with the grit and shit, I LOVE the ruggedness of the early Wu-tang stuff...

That's kind of what I'm saying....the response to my critique of RZA would be 'well all that is by design...that's just his style'. And I'm saying yah....I don't like that style.

Shrugging over here cause I like every other 90's hip hop act that are routinely celebrated. RZA is just an exception for me and I realize I'm in the very small minority.

.

Off the top of my head I'll say:

Qtip
Beatnuts
Dre
Premier
P Rock
Marley Marl
Jay Dee (earlier stuff)
Whoever's responsible for Eric B and Rakim's stuff (unclear to me)
Jam Master Jay

Marley Marl actually did a lot of Eric B. and Rakim's early stuff my man.

I grew up thinking it was all Eric B but I've learned that there's alot of arguing about the whole thing.

.

_______________________________

ॐ शांति शांति शांति

>But hey....I like good sound, I like proper editing, I like
>good sense of swing and I like hip hop that has a musical
>sensibility. That's why he's not even in my top 20.

The post asked an honest question.

I gave an honest answer.

Why are you so angry at me?

Is there anything I can do to make this up to you?

>Is there anything I can do to make this up to you?

lmao @ musicality


just some arbitrary knock

My girlfriend plays that shit all the time. Gives me a headache. No funk and no swing.

that's where the art's at.


It's not like he's fatally ignorant of the rules, just more like he flagrantly ignores them.

He couldn't even make that choice.

I can see what you're talking about. Like in jazz....you gotta know the rules before you can break them. The way I see it...RZA ain't know those rules in the first place.

I suppose that kinda thing can have it's charm too. When Wu Tang came out I thought it was little kids' shit. Dungeouns and Dragons....comic book geeks type of thing. Nowadays you got those Odd Future kids. That's kinda how I saw Wu Tang Clan.

I've grown to appreciate the artistry...but I was hating that shit when it came out.

Edit: And while the hate in my heart is still warm.....Them Boot Camp clique dudes have got some of the worst beats I've ever heard in my life. These guys are like soul-suckers....can't nod your head cause it's outta time.

>Edit: And while the hate in my heart is still warm.....Them
>Boot Camp clique dudes have got some of the worst beats I've
>ever heard in my life.



>These guys are like soul-suckers....can't nod your head cause it's >outta time.

BCC and Wu is prototypical head nod music!
__
I don't like the beat anymore because its just a loop. ALC didn't FLIP IT ENOUGH!

Flip it enough? Flip these. Flip off. Go flip some f*cking burgers.(c)Kno

Allied State of the National Electric Beat Treaty Organization (NEBTO)

...he's just never been in my top five or even top twenty favorite hip-hop producers, but like I said I love a lot of the music he did do back in the 90's but it was way more producers that caught my ear over & over more than RZA.

>...he's just never been in my top five or even top twenty
>favorite hip-hop producers, but like I said I love a lot of
>the music he did do back in the 90's but it was way more
>producers that caught my ear over & over more than RZA.
>
can you please name those 20 guys ?


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+++last man standing takes a seat+++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
http://www.last.fm/user/chillhood

something seems to be missing for me. not bad, but not great either. in the good section of the supermarket.

between enter the 36 chambers, tical, ob4cl, liquid swords and some ironman highlights, the man had arguably the all-time greatest production stretch in hip hop


36, ob4cl, and liquid swords are all in the top 10-15 hip hop albums of all time

and he did dark fantasy, easily the best beat on kanyes shit and IMO one of the best he's ever done



what more do you need from him? he has famous singles, he has great album-long collaborations, he's got individual beats that stack up with the best beats ever... idk, he's top 3-4 in my book, flip flopping with pete rock all the time

Something missing? ..lol...93-97 he had the best stretch, beats and maybe even impact than any other producer..lol...wiki or youtube his beats..lol


Also... RZA >>> Large Pro .....easily

Ghost Dog
The W
Afro Samurai
8 Diagrams
etc..

RZA progressed as an artist... cant say the same for Premo, PR and Dre...

...if you combined all the best tracks off of those projects you listed, you might actually have a quality LP...none of that ish you listed is front to back quality...and I am a huge RZA fan...

I thought the W was a great album.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wd9P5m1tir4

36, Forever, The W all dope production to me. That run of Wu solo joints man RZA was had a hella of a hot streak.

he's #1 to me. although sometimes i concede the spot to Preem. Pete is always the next choice.


i just think that run of wu stuff is far and away the most exciting hip hop ever made. i'm also white, 34 and from staten island.

I was a Wu head way back and RZA's my dude but he didn't branch out enough and he was a bit hit and miss at times.

of the last ten years and than list Dre (of all fucn people), Pete Rock, Primo, Large Pro... go eat a dick and die

... Bong Bong!

Simple as that

I think he's the most innovative producer ever
and his best beats are my favorite by anyone.

DJ Premier is right up there, and his beats are tailor made for rappers,
but RZA's beats are more dynamic and have a life of their own with or without
an MC spitting over them imo.

the one that gets everyone to look at music from a different angle.

and to top it off, he's made undeniable classic ALBUMS, from 36 to forever.