Yes he whipped all his kids asses. Yes he talked harsh to them and tested them. But in the end, that man raised 7 men and 4 women (outside baby included) that never went to jail or were known as young adults under his roof to be drug addicts. What they did after moving out is another story.

Yeah MJ wanted to look nothing like him, LaToya made claims left&rt about him and married into the mob, Randy spent a stint in a mental hospital after his older brother preggored his ex-wife, and Jermaine looks like the tin-man and got a tribe of bm’s. BUT the grand majority of Kathrine and Joe’s kids (outside baby included) are pretty solid people.

I say all this because I honestly dont like the narrative of Joe that’s being painted, not so much by the ‘Michael’ movie, but social media who seems to want to burn his accomplishments at the stake. If you ever visited that tiny ass house in Gary, the thought of anything more than 2adults and two small kids living there is mind blowing. His ability to not lose Jackie,Tito & Jermaine to them Gary streets is amazing considering how parents of today’s young men are struggling to keep just one on track despite having more options and security than Joe’s boys. I also dont like how folks are trying to make Katherine look foolish. If anything she understood that she didnt want her boys in a bad or deadly situation and if feeling the consequence from their father was going to prevent that then so be it.

what kind of "the devil you know" ass post is this

Everything she said speaks more to the resilience of the kids than it does to Joe's alleged "protection." Fuck him forever.

She even spoke of "his" accomplishments. The accomplishments were ALL the kids'.

They were molded. Was Joe hard on them kids, hell yeah.
But the success the world knows them for comes from how their father reared them. Not saying he was right but he for damnsure didnt do too damn bad.

I hope you don't have kids.

Are you saying I’m standing by my og post?

Just because kids don’t end up breaking the law? Like most of us don’t do?

But I am considering the outcome of the Jacksons considering the conditions they were birthed into, Black and poor in america annnnd to an abusive father. The odds should’ve been completely against them.

>But I am considering the outcome of the Jacksons considering
>the conditions they were birthed into, Black and poor in
>america annnnd to an abusive father. The odds should’ve been
>completely against them.

The odds completely stacked against them, they come out of it to accomplish all the things that they did, and your impulse is to ... applaud the abusive father ?

Crazy work.

And disdain to Joe for the abuse.
The outcome didnt just happen by chance. Perhaps Katherine’s live outranked Joe’s abuse.

On another note aside from J5, MJ, Janet and early Jermaine we really dont know what successes the Jacksons have as individual men and women but if there was negatives, the social media would’ve dragged them for it so there’s success of them (Reebie, Jackie, Tito, Marlan, Latoya and Randy) not being stuck in a negative media loop as well as the grandkids.

This is a basic logical fallacy - post hoc ergo propter hoc.

Jackson were successful and had abusive parents. That does not mean the Jacksons were successful BECAUSE of the parenting.

Joe Jackson could have been Richard Williams, but he was a piece of shit. That's why people don't like him.

Who have shitty abusive and murderous children. (Ie Rob Reiner’s son)

So there’s no telling one way or another. But for the Jackson’s as Black men in America esp in the 60’s -80’s, not getting hooked on drugs or ending up violent as their father, lets us know something had to have gone right in their rearing.

its not that goddamn simple

just stop fuckin talking damn

You are taking the time to respond to something you’re reading. How about just shutting your shitty eyes or simply not reading my post or responses?

You the most ‘let me put myself through it’ angry nigga on these boards. Go detox or play in traffic or something.

.

I find it funny he sang about his habit as a cry for help and no one said a word, but now you using the lethal dose from someone else’s hand against him?

Plenty of people still dying of opioid addiction first given by their trusted physician but let you tell it…

If anything Joe was protecting Mike and all his boys from niggas like you.

Joe did not protect MJ from drugs. Attacking me doesnt change that but knock yourself out.

And yes, he did protect his kids.

probably a mix of both

.

no matter what their environment is..hard areas, devestated areas, Gary, great areas.


>But I am considering the outcome of the Jacksons considering
>the conditions they were birthed into, Black and poor in
>america annnnd to an abusive father. The odds should’ve been
>completely against them.
>

Indeed they do. I think thats what Katherine gave them.

it literally doesnt matter how u or we the public saw him... most of his family saw his as an abuser... we should listen to them

In how he was portrayed by his family in The Jacksons: An American Dream which all of his children had a hand in and produced, vs Michael which family members backed out of and only a few pushed for. Not to mention certain parts of the timeline weren’t right musically, credible people left out, and a bit of white heroism pushed.

In both he was abusive, quick to whip ass, verbally aggressive, manipulative and demanded way too much from a bunch of kids.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQad3_5Sc6Y


Post Jack: Since the Michael movie came out, Youtube is being flooded
with a bunch of videos from the Jacksons I'd never seen before


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKpvFOHr6os
(This is actually a pretty solid, 80s groove right here at least)


The whole Jackson Family, Mike standing out with one of his red ass shirts he was so fond of
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6dsIUvxgUg

I understand the instinct to look at Joe Jackson’s circumstances and say, “He was trying to protect his children.” Gary was not an easy place to raise a family. Poverty, racism, violence, and limited options are real pressures, and I do not think it is fair to talk about any Black parent from that era without acknowledging the danger they were trying to survive.

But I strongly reject the idea that abuse becomes protection because some of the children became successful.

Whipping children, humiliating them, terrorizing them, and making them afraid of you is not the same thing as protecting them. It may produce discipline. It may produce achievement. It may even produce obedience. But it also produces trauma, fear, shame, and lifelong wounds. Those wounds do not disappear because the family became famous or because some of the children avoided jail or addiction.

That is the dangerous part of this argument: it treats success as proof that the harm was justified. By that logic, any abusive parent could point to a child’s accomplishments and say, “See? It worked.” But a person can succeed despite abuse, not because of it. A child can survive a harmful household and still carry the damage for the rest of their life.

Also, “they didn’t go to jail” is an extremely low bar for parenting. Children deserve more than simply being kept out of the streets. They deserve safety inside their own home too. Protection from the outside world should not come at the cost of being harmed by the people responsible for loving them.

I can hold two truths at once: Joe Jackson may have been operating under real fear and pressure, and he may have helped create opportunities for his children. But that does not erase the abuse. It does not make it loving. It does not make it necessary. And it does not make the children ungrateful or dishonest for naming what happened to them.

We have to be very careful not to romanticize harm just because it happened in a family that produced extraordinary talent. Black children have always deserved gentleness, dignity, and protection. Not just results.

d

"i do more for both our communities than you'll ever know." - Heinz
"But rest assured, in my luxurious house built on the backs of people darker than me, I am sipping fine scotch and scoffing at how stupid you are." - bshelly

I think it's possible to have empathy for a situation without turning a blind eye to the monstrous behavior he displayed in said situation. His family chooses to depict him in this way. We should listen to them.

and I’m not saying its a good excuse but in the 60’s getting your ass beat wasn’t seem as wrong or unacceptable. Shit was damn near embraced by schools.

>and I’m not saying its a good excuse but in the 60’s
>getting your ass beat wasn’t seem as wrong or unacceptable.
>Shit was damn near embraced by schools.

we have all heard the jokes about how white people don't beat their kids etc etc.

well as Black people, we are carrying the generational trauma of our great great great grandparents, who were enslaved, being taught that beatings are acceptable punishment.

that's where it comes from. that's why 'we' do it and 'they' don't.

and to further compound it was the horror of murder and lynchings during reconstruction and jim crow, AFTER they said we were free...so we had to get beat to make sure we didn't act out in the streets and get kilt

so there is NO real logic or romanticism to be carried down about abusing kids...none. because its born of oppression.

d


"i do more for both our communities than you'll ever know." - Heinz
"But rest assured, in my luxurious house built on the backs of people darker than me, I am sipping fine scotch and scoffing at how stupid you are." - bshelly

Not to dismiss Joe’s abuse but realize that in spite of, the Jackson’s were and still are a successful family.

Something I’ve noticed is that none of the Jackson grandchildren have stated they were abused by their parents or grandparents. I mention that because out of 10 kids it, Joe’s abuse has not appeared to have passed on.

that line hurt Mike more than the as whooping’s

That was vicious. He had to feel some kind of way to see all but 4 of his try their best to lose his features.

.

Same with graduating HS, or not being in a gang.

It is yet not many of us can say our families were untouched by them, especially during the crack era. Even today, despite more positive growth, some of our kids are dying due to drug overdoses, being murdered over gang warfare or even less from internet beef, and taking up too many beds in jails/prisons.

Also to very honest, although I’ve graduated h.s., college etc, my son in 2018 was the first male on my mother’s side to graduate h.s. My uncles and male cousins either got a g.e.d. or dropped out, never going back. Low bar perhaps but still an accomplisment.

no matter how their lives turned out, that part isn't protection.

Yes. Lets also consider when they were way too old/strong to be whooped but could’ve slipped into drug addiction, street life etc etc still.

The ass whippins were abusive af, but there had to be something else instilled for all but one of their kids to not get caught up in show biz blow. Certainly it was offered and they may have even took a hit or two, but not one day at a betty ford for any of them has been revealed. It can’t just be they got whoopins, end of story.

while the other kids were required to call him Joseph

for that, them kids cant stand the side baby

Highly f’ed up. She’ll never be at the level of the Jacksons and unfortunately for her, will always be deemed the “outside baby”.

i hate that shit

yeah thats STILL your dad/ mom, but you were also STILL their child when they were doing the fucked up shit they were doing

i dont know why black folks think thats a one way street

yo parent can literally shit in your dinner and pimp you out, and you’ll have some bible thumping relative trying to shame you for distancing yourself

>i hate that shit
>
>yeah thats STILL your dad/ mom, but you were also STILL their
>child when they were doing the fucked up shit they were doing
>
>i dont know why black folks think thats a one way street
>
>yo parent can literally shit in your dinner and pimp you out,
>and you’ll have some bible thumping relative trying to shame
>you for distancing yourself


Oh my… damn. “This is how you drive!”-Mike Lowry

I will say though that, forgiveness, if its that, is for the victim, not for grace of the abuser.

honor your father and mother.

children, obey your parents in everything, for this pleases the lordt.

that's the sentiment in the good book. got a lot of us in a choke hold.

‘And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.’

Ephesians 6:4


Joe provoked them and they did away with his features surgically and diluting via other races. I’m still surprised they didnt jump him, but maybe they did and just didn’t broadcast it.

I'm not sure he was much worse than a lot of fathers in the 50s and 60s, used a belt or switch to the ass often. Marvin's dad much worse I believe beat Marvin every day and was a preacher. The kids stood by Joe and he stood by them later in life, thru Mike's trials and everything, I think that matters most. He'd never apologize for his whoopings but a lot of it was the times.

and the fact that you think it was just the whoopins that bothered them about Joe

Indeed that was how many parents dealt with their kids, even now parents whip/spank their kids. However Joe seemed harsh af in other ways like manipulation. As someone else pointed out, the name calling, distancing to be called Joseph (what was that about?) and other mental abuse controlling probably hurt much more than any whoopin.

But there must’ve been more to it all cause as you pointed out when the shit hit the fan, MJ & the charges, they stood 120 toes down.

but umm..

the Jackson’s faces are all fucked up and a lot of them suffered from some serious identity problems.

Look at MJ’s kids and tell me that isn’t crazy.

Sure, MJ was the greatest entertainer we ever witnessed but that nigga was kissing monkeys on the lips.

I think their mother deserves way more credit than their daddy for keeping that family together.

>but umm..
>
>the Jackson’s faces are all fucked up and a lot of them
>suffered from some serious identity problems.
>
>Look at MJ’s kids and tell me that isn’t crazy.
>
>Sure, MJ was the greatest entertainer we ever witnessed but
>that nigga was kissing monkeys on the lips.
>
>I think their mother deserves way more credit than their daddy
>for keeping that family together.
>


Im lo-key mad at her.

Is the narrative I’m seeing pushed.

Some folks are calling her into question for not standing up to Joe, but if we keepin it a buck most of us growing up and especially that of our parents, were raised getting whoopins. However the other brutality the Jacksons faced (manipulation, verbal put downs, overworking etc) was probably not done. Maybe some early latchkeying and over babysitting w/out pay but being saviors to prevent family poverty on the Jacksons level, most of us and our parents did not deal with that.

she got all the love and money without the abuse from that POS

FUCK Joe

but I feel you

I got no love for Joe Jackson

As a kid she was sworn to secrecy to not tell anyone who her father or siblings were.

Can you imagine that as a kid 6-16? All your friends know and love your siblings but can’t say ish. As a little kid she probably let it slip then got teased cause she couldn’t prove. Granted Joe let her call him daddy, he and her mom probably threatened her to not say anything (ie ‘if you say Joe your daddy, he wont be able to visit you, or if you say they’re your siblings Joe wont buy you the toy or a new car). Even today and only after the passing of her own mom, Katherine and Reebie are the only one’s that acknowledge and have a relationship with her.

Yeah she might’ve missed out on the fame and whoopins but not the abuse.

???????

Who’s to say how better or worse the Jacksons would’ve been had he been a better father especially in how we view fatherhood today. One things for sure, w/out his vision whatever guidance, protection and discipline (whoopins included) that came with it, there would be no Jackson 5 and we all still cheer on the outcome.

It's insane that she's still at it.

or further away from hell

this is why i said they need to die off because they will never let that bullshit go

Whatever your reason to bash is meaningless especially when you all continue to celebrate the outcome of Joe Jackson’s rearing of his children.

You still love and probably idolize the Jackson 5, the Jacksons and definitely Michael Jackson. Regardless of the strictness and ass whoopings, they are the creme de la creme of a talented family and set the standard for every music group/boy&girl band and solo entertainers in R&B, Pop, and Rock then and now.

Was he harsh, yes. Could he have been a better father, yes and so can you. Did he protect his children, yes. Maybe not the way we deem protection these days and rightfully so because we all have evolved and learned from the mistakes of our parents/grandparents etc in how we care/nurture and protect our children today, but in consideration of his era, he very well protected his children.

All the name calling shows you’re just the same as Joe. Saying whatever no matter how negative to get someone on your side.

Pretzel logic just means you are twisting yourself into knots to justify your reasoning.

Michael Jackson was extremely gifted.

He would’ve shined without the abuse.

i wonder what she calls facts?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Js7PKsarC5Q

That’s hilarious and wild af.

I’m about to read Jermaine, LaToya and Katherine’s for a few more optics on Joe.

he did not protect those kids and beat them to stardom

It’s a parody of a portion of who Joe Jackson was. On another note I dont recall any family member saying he flipped tables, but it was funny.

By today’s standards he was a danger to them, but back then from start to finish of the Jackson’s he wasn’t. This is why I also said I’m going to start reading some of the books the Jackson’s wrote.

('Cause this ain't 1823 -- ain't even 1970 - Kurtis Blow)

Yes corporal punishment in schools and family situations was more accepted - but beating the shit out of kids with belt buckles and mocking them mentally abusing them and making them feel unsafe for years and forcing them to sing and dance for hours was NOT 'normal.'

People *knew* acting like a psycho to your kids was bad.

Does that mean at his heart he was an evil person? Maybe not - he could have been trying to do the thing he felt was best without having the tools or knowledge to not choose to scar his children mentally.

I don't think he cut any digits off or burned them - he wasn't that.

But he seemed like a raging asshole who abused his kids for the goal of having a singing and dancing group. And he did it hours a day for years.

Remember - He was doing this in the 1970s!!

Maybe that was the best he could do - but it doesn't make it right - or even defensible. (It does make a funny skit though.)

Beating his kids was bad. Having them entertain til 3,4,5am was insane.
But just like it a skit of the abuse is funny, everyone has gotten something out of it. Everyone's been fed and/or entertained from the product of that abuse.

Even with that being the case, dude still provided protection for his kids from the industry and predators, particularly in their youth.

So he can release his head.

Why r you here?

True

Asking for a friend.

I know it was funny at the time and a running joke but gotdammit, she really tried to take us there with a serious face.

no, seriously.

ive said this before. not sure what you’re trying to prove here, you probably dont know either.

Sadly most child stars are abused, from Shirley Temple and so on. Yet we all celebrate their stardom regardless of how it came to be. It's not fine at all.

its the gift that keeps on giving

getting into gangs, etc. it's giving too much credit to their abuser and calling it protection.

yes, a lot of kids get abused, but tying that to how celebrity culture is a disconnect. we also celebrate those who were not abused. and many times, we don't always know the back story until someone tells the story later.

Whatever you selling