I am going to admit, Abbott and DeSantis stunt has forced New Yorkers to talk about what's going on at the border, and deal with it in ways we have never before they started shipping migrants up here.

I disagree with the idea that the city is overwhelmed with migrants. We can probably handle the 70k that have been sent up here better than other places (though the part that gets me the most is seeing kids who should be in school out on the streets during school day hours). I do think the Mayor is right that this is a national issue and the federal government should address it.

I think this should be dealt with nationally, and all states should be required to take in a share of migrants until the federal government addresses the issue at the border.

And by fixing it at the border, I think the real solution should be doing what we can to shore up our Latin neighbors so they aren't trying to flee and come here via the border.

What do you think?

Poll question: Do you think we have a migration crisis?

Poll result (27 votes) Hell Yeah (14 votes) Vote No, it's always been this way. (13 votes) Vote

But don't forget what leaders of the Republicans are saying:

America is ‘full,’ Lindsey Graham says
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/12/31/lindsey-graham-immigration-00133364


It's a COMPLEX issue that would require honest participation and good faith from all sides, AND Obama got a bill passed the senate in 2013 that would have addressed a lot of problems that was NOT passed by the house: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2014/6/30/18080446/immigration-reform-congress-2014-house-john-boehner-obama

>I think this should be dealt with nationally, and all states should be required to take in a share of migrants until the federal government addresses the issue at the border.


Well that thinking and some shit in your hand will get you a dirty hand.

Make NO MISTAKE, Republicans are NOT interested in a sensible policy - they want a locked border, mass detention, and mass expulsion and are willing to rip babies away and KNOWINGLY put them in a system that can not track where the babies are.

Republicans in government now are MONSTERS and only if the Democrats regain the house, the senate and the presidency will any of this be addressed. (And likely not solved because the Democrats will fear that if anything goes wrong then they'll be blamed and lose the next election.)


>And by fixing it at the border, I think the real solution should be doing what we can to shore up our Latin neighbors so they aren't trying to flee and come here via the border.

Talk to any of your friends about foreign aid and see what they say - it's a sensbile policy that can never be implemented again.

Go off, queen.


>America is ‘full,’ Lindsey Graham says

who' directive upon check-in at their midtown manhattan hotel

But I think terming it a "crisis" lets the worst, most disingenuous, unserious people frame the conversation about it.

pursuing

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/us-easing-venezuela-oil-sanctions-response-election-deal-official-2023-10-18/

Dealing with the root causes but even if we won't go that far, as always a more humane and empathetic approach would be better than separating families and caging children and shit.

causes Venezuelan Migrants on NYC streets?

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

not that its a bad thing but whew, in NC we have tons of migrant from Central America and the amount of kids they are producing is impressive.

My kids school is 40% Black and 32% Hispanic/Latino and I think they will surpass us in the next 2 years.

The kids are fine.. it's the parents. We are still in a "I don't fuck with you but our kids cool" phase.

they are definitely winning....
and it's one of the reasons the white Christian movement is so heavy on child rearing and "traditional values"....
they trying to counter it...

And here we are...Black folks...trying to get on this whole Savetheplanetbynothavingchildrenandreducingyourcarbonfootprint garbage....

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Regardless of validity….

But aside from that BS Theory….I wholeheartedly believe that reduction of Black families by choice is a bad idea. Our community is already dwindling too fast from outside forces….but this is another topic for another day..

and I know people on here will defend them but the reality is blue collar, HS educated Black folk and dropouts often compete for the same jobs with migrants when it comes to hard labor.

who are reliable and can string a sentence together who can't get work?

Like I know there is a huge Black male unemployment problem but it always seems like to me that the issue is that there are so many black males in particular who are unemployable for a host of reasons.

I know it sounds fucked up to say but like unemployment is like 3.5 percent. I know when the tides turn and we do have a nationwide unemployment problem black folks are the first to hit and I saw that first hand in 2008-2009. But is that the case right now?




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

I also live in North Carolina.

my last job was large format print and design for an awning shop. They had a warehouse and the other half of the company was trucking and industrial shit.

so all the Black men in the warehouse were HS educated or drop outs. They also had undocumented workers.

I’ve worked in kitchens, I’ve stocked grocery stores while waiting to get instate tuition in VA.

Never been afraid of hard work.

but my last convo on this was at the barber shop and I did the OKP thing about jobs being stolen and clippers stopped. The owner said “YOU may not have your job stolen but WE had our jobs stolen” and then they told stories about working for AT&T laying lines making good money until they got undercut by undocumented workers. Each person in there had a story to tell.

and this is the problem, I think folks who are white collar making 6 figures are out of touch with every day Black folk who work these blue collar gigs or work in these places that use undocumented workers.

and that UE number doesn’t mean shit.. As soon as things get tight, and not 2008-09 tight but as soon as its time for job cuts or time to save money that EU number won’t save you when you need to feed the fam. People who work these types of jobs dont have emergency funds and 6 months of cash in the bank.

Exactly. In Chicago the mayor is talking about giving migrants quick greencard processing. The Mexican communities are livid and protesting every move the aldermen and mayor make.
One thing that shows how the migrant situation is hitting the poor asap is seeing triple the numbers of freelance construction workers lined up at home depot.

The common theme with the migrant situation when it comes to the non-white and non-rich is that it exposes how the north continues to block the advancements of Black citizens just as the south and in some cases much worse, ie homeownership. Doesnt matter that northern states are mainly democrat and have a majority of alderman that reflect their constituents, its the same system.

I don't understand how letting random people into the country just because they want to is a good idea. These folks getting background checks before they are let in or nah? If they were fleeing war, genocide or persecution then ok... but that ain't it.

Importing all these anti-black people isn't gonna be good for Black Americans.

All this shit is part of the plan to bring the US (and European countries) down to a level so that the One World Government / New World Order will be more acceptable.

This is a fairly complicated issue, and even the City Council and local Comptroller thinks Adams is being a bit too extreme in terms of his complaints of the fiscal constraints migrants are costing NYC.

At the same time, this Federal government absolutely should pitch in and help NYC and the other sanctuary cities Republican governors have been targeting. Pretty wild that Biden has seemingly turned a blind eye to his on many levels.

and politics are only making it worse

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

as long as the 2 camps are 'We're being invaded' vs "So-called border crisis" it doesn't leave much room for problem solving

Because if one side says we have a major problem, and the other side is saying "what problem" while we see kids on the street, who are folks going to listen to?

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

I live in Cali and tbh I don't see it as any different than it's always been tbh.

I saw some talk above about addressing root causes, which is really the only viable solution. But everything else, jailing people (including children), shipping immigrants to 'blue' states and cities, 'militirizing the border' - that's the crisis. It's all political theater that leads to more suffering that doesn't really address some of the real issues.

It has not always been this way, the OP is a liar. Biden's open door policy and leaving state governments to pay caused this situation. Don't make strawman arguments and deflect like yall usually do. This is a covert Democrat strategy to replace the black vote. The Sheila Jackson and Stacey Abrams results prove this strategy is a failure.

It's well documented that New York and Chicago's south/west sides cannot handle thousands of asylum seekers and illegal immigrants every week. These people are not vetted. Let's get to the elephants in the room the op danced around.

When the black community seeks tangible exclusive resources politicians deflect to studies, surveys, and committees; saying the government cannot afford it. All of those lies were thrown out the window once thousands of illegal immigrants and asylum seekers arrived. Government spends hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars per year to feed, house, protect, and provide healthcare for asylum seekers and illegal immigrants. They're housing them in hotels in Manhattan while black american homeless u.s. citizens sleep on cold streets.

In Chicago they're sending these people to primarily south and west sides creating a situation that led to a lawsuit against the city. This debacle is a slap in the face to black americans. Governor Pritzker signed house bill 3751 that allows non-citizen permanent workers and DACA recipients to become police officers in Illinois. Most of you don't care for obvious reasons.

There's three easy ways to prove me wrong. Send 10,000 asylum seekers and illegal immigrants per week to majority asian, latino, and jewish communities around the country. Empty schools and police stations in those communities to house them. Hold job fairs for these people with apprenticeship offers in those communities. Estimate the 40 year impact of those three methods on asian, latino, and jewish communities.

Let me prebuttle, a battle rap term, this replacement theory deflection tactic. 40 years ago Compton was 74% black now it's nearly 70% latino. Nuriy Martinez and other suspected white supremacist latinos met to strip black LA residents of political power. Should I continue destroying his deflection tactic?

This fall I challenge Democrats to use the same voter outreach strategies on latinos; gender divisive rhetoric, offensive symbolic gestures, and bs listening sessions without promises of exclusive tangible resources. I don't hate anyone and have a strong issue with unchecked immigration supported by billions of dollars.

Biden is deporting more people than Trump.

Geopolitics is much tougher than just blaming Biden though

... And illegal immigrants entering the u.s. per week without vetting is the open door policy. To further answer your question he gave speech welcoming them to come.

Prior to inaugaration Biden told black leaders the black community needs to get behind latinos and that statement came true.

How many undocumented immigrants, illegal immigrants, and asylum seekers is the Biden administration deporting per week?

Biden is doing more to prevent some of the issues than the GOP did - if deportation is indeed teh correct solution. He even continued construction of Trump's stupid border wall. So like I just don't get the weird thing where the GOP is seen as tough on immigration and the democrats are not. Both generally seem unfriendly to immigrants, but GOP adds in a little more fear and racism.

Are you saying Biden is just letting more people in? is there any evidence to support that?

>Biden is doing more to prevent some of the issues than the
>GOP did - if deportation is indeed teh correct solution. He
>even continued construction of Trump's stupid border wall. So
>like I just don't get the weird thing where the GOP is seen as
>tough on immigration and the democrats are not. Both generally
>seem unfriendly to immigrants, but GOP adds in a little more
>fear and racism.

What do you mean by unfriendly to immigrants. America lets more immigrants in than anywhere else in the world.

Stop deflecting with words like fear and racism. Both parties don't care about immigration until it becomes a problem. Dems want a replacement voter bloc and Republicans want cheap labor. Neither party severly sanctions businesses that benefit from illegal immigration.

Democrats bent over backwards to provide feed, house, provide healthcare, provide employment for asylum seekers and undocumented immigrants. Servicemen do not receive hundreds of millions of dollars Democrats spend on asylum seekers and undocumented immigrants.


>
>Are you saying Biden is just letting more people in? is there
>any evidence to support that?
>

Tens of thousands of undocumented immigrants, illegal immigrants, and asylum enter this country per week. Evidence of this is found in a few places; the border, Chicago, and New York. Feigning ignorance is laughable.

How many undocumented immigrants, illegal immigrants, and asylum seekers is the Biden administration deporting per week?

immigrants?

When did he tell Black People to get behind Latinos?



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

There's a 15 audio clip where he says tells get behind latinos. I said repeatedly this happened prior to inaugaration not posting it for you.

Half truths my ass go research and stop deflrcting.

instead of posting the fucking link

it smells like bullshit.

this is something right wing folks do when they don’t have the evidence to support their argument.

>instead of posting the fucking link
>
>it smells like bullshit.
>
>this is something right wing folks do when they don’t have
>the evidence to support their argument.
>
>

Ah, the "right wing" deflection is another democrat strategy.

The full over an hour video is still up as are snippets of the 15 minutes in which Biden admonished black leaders. I'll correct myself in that he used the words "start working with latinos" same difference. Let's not revisit the democrat parroted black and brown unity talking point because I don't gain anything by shattering that myth.

or name the video instead of telling people to “do their research”

When I see people say that its a red flag to me.

Just link the story or produce the actual article.

Its easy to do instead of telling someone to dig for it.

If you're going to say Biden did something or gave a speech saying something, be prepared to back up your claim.

and I 100% get why it sucks. One of Biden's first big meetings in office was telling black leaders to shut the fuck up and chill out.

That still doesn't mean he has an open door policy towards illegal immigration. It also doesn't make electoral sense for Biden to support the policy you've outlined? You think he's trying to replace one of his strongest bases w/a group of people who tend to vote more republican?

Telling people to do research is funny, because a quick google search on your part would show you that Obama deported more illegal immigrants the Bush and Biden is deporting more than Trump. I'm just asking why we call it an open door policy for Biden and Obama, but not the other two.

>and I 100% get why it sucks. One of Biden's first big
>meetings in office was telling black leaders to shut the fuck
>up and chill out.
>
>That still doesn't mean he has an open door policy towards
>illegal immigration. It also doesn't make electoral sense for
>Biden to support the policy you've outlined? You think he's
>trying to replace one of his strongest bases w/a group of
>people who tend to vote more republican?

This is an open door policy because democrats are not serious about protecting the border.

Shhh, democrats don't care about that us knowing their goal to replace the black vote. They're too busy lying to black voters. My words are not it is what happened proven by tangible monetary aid they gave to them.
>
>Telling people to do research is funny, because a quick google
>search on your part would show you that Obama deported more
>illegal immigrants the Bush and Biden is deporting more than
>Trump. I'm just asking why we call it an open door policy for
>Biden and Obama, but not the other two.
>

German Matthews was deported five times as a reference. That point is made to highlight illegal immigrants return after deportation. The highest number I can find on the Biden admininstrations' deportation is 543,000+. An estimated 10,000 people per day are crossing the border in each of the sectors. For instance in 2019 385,885 illegal immigrants are deported and 171,000+ returned.

I'll relax for a few minutes to hear yall deflect. No one countered anything written in my first response other than half truths and the right wing deflection.

context. Not even worth discussing point by point

We get it, Democrats will replace you, Black voters did NOT vote Biden in in the first place, House Bill 3751 will allow immigrants to join the police force as legal residents instead of as US citizens, and midtown Manhattan hotels are being converted into penthouses for your new Venezuelan overlords

I know a lot of people saw a highly edited version of the meeting that went viral and totally mischaracterized the meeting.

And I know that there was a 2-3 portion of it that was supercringeworthy when Biden was trying to brag on his record. But if you watch the whole meeting, its Biden expressing his commitment to supporting Black People in his administration.

And he started by appointing 2 of the people on that call to 2 of the highest positions in his DOJ.

And no where in that call did he say that Black Pepole need to fall behind Latinos. SMH.



>and I 100% get why it sucks. One of Biden's first big
>meetings in office was telling black leaders to shut the fuck
>up and chill out.
>
>That still doesn't mean he has an open door policy towards
>illegal immigration. It also doesn't make electoral sense for
>Biden to support the policy you've outlined? You think he's
>trying to replace one of his strongest bases w/a group of
>people who tend to vote more republican?
>
>Telling people to do research is funny, because a quick google
>search on your part would show you that Obama deported more
>illegal immigrants the Bush and Biden is deporting more than
>Trump. I'm just asking why we call it an open door policy for
>Biden and Obama, but not the other two.
>
>


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

>I know a lot of people saw a highly edited version of the
>meeting that went viral and totally mischaracterized the
>meeting.
>
>And I know that there was a 2-3 portion of it that was
>supercringeworthy when Biden was trying to brag on his record.
> But if you watch the whole meeting, its Biden expressing his
>commitment to supporting Black People in his administration.
>
>And he started by appointing 2 of the people on that call to 2
>of the highest positions in his DOJ.
>
>And no where in that call did he say that Black Pepole need to
>fall behind Latinos. SMH.

STOP making excuses for tactics they dont use on other groups.

And what did those two do for the community? I'm checkmating you if you bring up Kristin Clark. Bring up the other person too.

Can you show me democrats using this representation as proof of aiding a community strategy on latinos, asian, white women, lgbt, and insert community here?

Black people need to fall in line behind Latinos.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3G7n21p0kY

Show it to me and I will shut the fuck up and send 100 to the charity of your choice.

If you can't do it then you should sit yo ass down and let grown folks talk.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

>Black people need to fall in line behind Latinos.
>
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3G7n21p0kY
>
>Show it to me and I will shut the fuck up and send 100 to the
>charity of your choice.
>
>If you can't do it then you should sit yo ass down and let
>grown folks talk.

I proved you wrong DAYS AGO clarifying his EXACT words " they're going to have to start working with latinos" followed by me saying the words same difference. Donate that $100 to the boys and girls clubs on my behalf thanks in advance.

Every piece of beneficial legislation the latino community receives involves either a black american, ablack identifying latino, or a black immigrant so Biden's statement is wrong.

Should I pull up historic quotes to erase this black and brown unity myth you parroted in this thread? Enrique Tarrio, Julio Alberto Suarez, Nick Fuentes, and Danny Salinas tell you to stop referring to them as brown, they're white. Chivo2121 told the world no black and brown unity exists.

We're not falling for any of your lies. I outlined various democratic strategies in this post you could not refute. Glad to erase these democrat narratives on the reality of this migration crisis. No tangibles no vote.

Fucking Biden

>Let me prebuttle, a battle rap term, this replacement theory
>deflection tactic. 40 years ago Compton was 74% black now it's
>nearly 70% latino.

and I am 100% certain folks that redlined Los Angeles probably used a lot of the same language and arguments this guy is using when Black people started migrating west from the south

figured I'd pick at that one before someone else did

>Don't make strawman arguments and deflect like
>yall usually do. This is a covert Democrat strategy to replace
>the black vote.


How would that work ? How long would it take ?


The Sheila Jackson and Stacey Abrams results
>prove this strategy is a failure.
>


Elaborate

Dems need as many votes as possible.

Right, just throw away votes.

>Dems need as many votes as possible.

Clyburn and democratic operatives in the got mad at black voters for tangible exclusive resources. You missed the democrat playbook breakdown section on black voters.

It's getting increasingly harder to lie to black voters in order to get votes. We want the same tangible exclusive aid they give to all these other groups. They attach millions of dollars in exclusive resources to other groups then beg for votes. With us we get a listening session without promises to actually do what they're supposed to do, at times offensive symbololic gestures, some of yall get jobs from them, and gender divisive rhetoric from their operatives. Go find that Tiffany Cross and apologize for calling me a liar.

I meant what I said about replacing the black vote. We're demanding things from them they won't do, not falling for their play. They propped up other groups in hopes they'll save them this fall. In other words it's exactly how this presidency played out. If elections are close coming down to the wire I expect lgbt, asian, latino communities to bail out democrats based on aid they receive. They need 100% of the latino vote.

Democrat this fall consists of a fish fry, a bunch of excuses, more lies, bring Kamala out to dance, and democrat operatives shaming black voters.

You talk like these groups were voting heavy for GOP before they got support from the Dems.

>>Don't make strawman arguments and deflect like
>>yall usually do. This is a covert Democrat strategy to
>replace
>>the black vote.
>
>
>How would that work ? How long would it take ?
>

Provide exclusive tangible resources to them, money, and grant them voting rights. If life was fair democrats see results this year with latinos carrying them to victories. At worst within 40 years they should get their return on investment with a new voter bloc loyal to them.

> The Sheila Jackson and Stacey Abrams results
>>prove this strategy is a failure.
>>
>
>
>Elaborate

Elaborate on what? Go look at the exit polls in those elections. Based on how much exclusive tangible aid they gave them democrats should receive 100% of their vote, but they didn't.

>>
>>How would that work ? How long would it take ?
>>
>
>Provide exclusive tangible resources to them, money, and grant
>them voting rights. If life was fair democrats see results
>this year with latinos carrying them to victories. At worst
>within 40 years they should get their return on investment
>with a new voter bloc loyal to them.
>

Migrants are not getting on the voting rolls that easy and that fast. Do you think the Republicans are going to sit back and just watch when they are already trying to stop Blacks who have the right to vote, today ? 40 years with no obstacles or hurdles in the way ? smh

>> The Sheila Jackson and Stacey Abrams results
>>>prove this strategy is a failure.
>>>
>>
>>
>>Elaborate
>
>Elaborate on what? Go look at the exit polls in those
>elections. Based on how much exclusive tangible aid they gave
>them democrats should receive 100% of their vote, but they
>didn't.
>

Georgia wouldn't be in play if it wasn't for Abrams.

Sheila Jackson Lee lost to the tough on crime and money angle. It was more than Dems voting against her, so your argument does not work.

and its going to take a long time for migrants to change the voting patterns because migrants don’t fucking vote. Its too risky.

Its their kids or their kids kids who vote and half them jokers aint even reliable because they want to be American so bad they end up voting GOP trying to assimilate.

>and its going to take a long time for migrants to change the
>voting patterns because migrants don’t fucking vote. Its too
>risky.
>
>Its their kids or their kids kids who vote and half them
>jokers aint even reliable because they want to be American so
>bad they end up voting GOP trying to assimilate.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ All this

For every Karen lost, there's a Julio and a Jamal ready to sign up for the MAGA movement

https://www.reddit.com/r/InterestingVideoClips/comments/199r4z4/most_women_vote_for_democrats_butthead_gaetz/

Because for every JUlio and Jamal you pick up, there is a Maria and a Janelle you lose as well.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Let's start with it's a white supremacy theory. That should tell you everything you need to know. And from a White Supremacy POV, it actually kind of make sense. For a White Supremacist, every net positive brown person coming here or born here, dilutes White power (voting, economic, demographic).

So while it's nonsense that anyone is being "replaced" (it ain't zero sum), it is true that White people who care about white supremacy, are actually losing something (power).

But Black People worried about Replacement Theory is Dumb AF because why do we give a fuck about White People losing power in this country. It's should be only White Supremacy who sees the world as White People versus everyone non-white. Black People don't benefit from seeing the world Black versus Latino. White Supremacist are the ones who benefit from us battling each other as opposed to battling White Supremicist. They want us battling over scraps from the table.

The other fact is that black people only make up 12% of the Country. So that is a powerful block, but it also means we really can't get anything down UNLESS we form alliances with like-minded people. There is a tremendous value in other brown people seeing themselves as in the same group as black people. Even if not all see themselves as in the same boat as black people, if most do, that's a net win; a gain over white supremacy. Nation-wide, two thirds Latinos voted against Trump. That ain't black people numbers but it's a net positive. Replace(lol) the Cubans with second/third generation Cubans and it's even better.

Public Enemy called it with "Fear of a Black Planet", and that's why you see Maga folks and Fucker Carlson talking all this replacement theory dung, but the truth is it's more like Fear of a Black & Brown Planet.

Yeah white people will no longer be the majority by 2044, but that's still a long time off and they will still be the largest group in this country. The only way that White Group doesn't still run things is if the Black & Brown folks see who the common enemy is (i.e., those who want white dominance).

Here is a chart that I find very interesting. The question is: is the declining share of White people in the U.S. good or bad for society.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/08/23/most-americans-say-the-declining-share-of-white-people-in-the-u-s-is-neither-good-nor-bad-for-society/ft_2021-08-23_populationdecline_01b/

I am surprised to see the largest group to see it as a positive thing are Asians. I do believe it's because, coming from Asian countries, they can easily envision a world not run by white people.

Another surprising thing is that the group that sees it as a bad thing after white people is BLACK PEOPLE!! HOW SWAY!!!

It's because some black people have been so conditioned that they can be sold on Replacement Theory (and even be suckered into thinking it's the Pro Black Position).

Lot of words but this topic gets me going.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

and there's probably a lot more to the stat showing Black people as second likely to see the decline in the white population in the US as a bad thing. Could be a sense of shared American-ness and heritage that is 100% valid. Could be concerns about job security or economic strain (real or imagined) vis a vis a particular or multiple immigrant groups. Could even be obfuscation of opinion because of the people conducting the research or format of the questions.

I get Black Americans being concerned about immigration, but I don't buy all the astroturfed talking points

take on White Supremacy as their own.

Like OK, I can sort of understand the argument against migrants forcing down labor pricing and taking jobs (though I really don't agree but's its too nuanced to try and explain here. The short answer is its why NAFTA failed. People can easily see losing their job to NAFTA but not the economy growing and creating jobs to NAFTA).

But too many times I've seen black people freak out because, their new neighbor/co-worker/doctor is non-white (but not black) but totally comfortable with white people in those roles.

I hope most black people would share that they have more in common with a brown person with good politics than an indifferent white person.



>and there's probably a lot more to the stat showing Black
>people as second likely to see the decline in the white
>population in the US as a bad thing. Could be a sense of
>shared American-ness and heritage that is 100% valid. Could be
>concerns about job security or economic strain (real or
>imagined) vis a vis a particular or multiple immigrant groups.
>Could even be obfuscation of opinion because of the people
>conducting the research or format of the questions.
>
>I get Black Americans being concerned about immigration, but I
>don't buy all the astroturfed talking points
>


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

the kids are fine, its the adults.

We both have this distrust for each other.

and unless you know spanish you are at a disadvantage when they start talking to each other.

My wife is learning and I should prolly start. Mainly because if we move out the country it will probably be somewhere that speaks spanish.

Definitely brings Fred Hampton to mind.

Look at how black people in the countries where "migrants" are coming from are doing. How much economic, political and social power do the black people have there? That is what we can expect in the future.

Seems the hatred of white people and republicans is clouding the judgement of a lot of black people right now, and that hatred is being used against us.

The enemy of our enemy is NOT our friend. 400+ years, and we haven't realized yet that we have NO friends, and we need to make put ourselves #1 and act in our own best interests (as a group).


>Another surprising thing is that the group that sees it as a
>bad thing after white people is BLACK PEOPLE!! HOW SWAY!!!

Because these groups that are "replacing" white people might treat us worse if they were in positions of power.

https://washingtonpress.com/2024/02/04/convoy-protestors-show-up-at-texas-border-and-disappointment-is-everywhere/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/columnist/2024/02/05/take-back-border-convoy-texas-republican-immigration-invasion-act/72451333007/



So these dummies went down to the border expecting to see floods of migrants coming over the border and they saw... nothing. Now they mad, they got grifted. Again.

it gets people heated, but nothing gets done, and really immigration whether you believe there are huge issues at the border or not, aren't the root causes of our problems.

these fools keep falling for this bullshit.

driving for days to save Amurrica from these invisible ghost.

if the U.S. didn't interfere in other countries' politics and economies perhaps the country wouldn't be in this position in the first place.

>if the U.S. didn't interfere in other countries' politics and
>economies perhaps the country wouldn't be in this position in
>the first place.

and ravaged just about every non super power country's vagina and anus, over and over and over, RAW.

I have said many times before, the way to solve any migration issues in the US is to build up the countries that people are fleeing from.

I don't know if the US can "fix" Ecuador, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, etc. but I think every country we fucked up should be our biggest foreign aid receipents....And France owes a shit ton of money to Haiti.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

>I have said many times before, the way to solve any migration
>issues in the US is to build up the countries that people are
>fleeing from.
>
>I don't know if the US can "fix" Ecuador, El Salvador,
>Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, etc. but I think every
>country we fucked up should be our biggest foreign aid
>receipents....And France owes a shit ton of money to Haiti.

Almost every single struggling country has been immensely affected by climate change (drought, famine, extreme weather events), and if we want to reduce migration by displaced people on an international scale, then we have to become more focused on investing in climate change

how the helm do we mitigate claims mate change at a rate that would impact migration in 3rd world countries?

Sounds like a scam. That shit is too far gone.

Climate change affects us too, so it makes sense to tackle something that not only affects the rest of the world, but is costing our own country literally billions of dollars each year.

that are attached w/crippling austerity requirements are a huge cause of migration. That's a generalization obviously, but allowing countries to run a functioning government without saddling them with impossible debt that requires them to cut all social services would be something that I would investigate.

this right here is probably the quickest way to turn countries around or at least have the quickest impact

Obviously we have an outsized influence on both, yet we need to focus on things we can change within our borders.

We can legislate for reduced fossil fuel and carbon usage, we can't force an international body to change the boundaries of an already signed contract.

You Biden is breaching years of the Dem position of no new burden security plan for the border if it doesn't include path to citizenship as part of the negotiations.

Some are hailing as brilliant politics. Others are calling it a disaster. What do you think?

Two points of view:

https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/democrats-border-bill-wrong/?utm_campaign=SproutSocial&utm_content=thenation&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter


https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/06/politics/biden-border-bill/index.html




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

the last few months have been a disaster.

Even if you give Democrats the benefit of the doubt that they *thought* this was some type of brilliant move (I don't) it is pretty clear they are shedding votes from their alleged big tent to chase the mythical moderate republican.

On this instance, they abandoned their own voters to chase people who will never, ever vote for them,

There is literally no one who is going "you know, I thought Joe Biden and the democrat cabal were a bunch of communist pedophiles, but now that he's adopted Trump's border policies I'm going to give this guy a shot"

That person doesn't exist.

The people do exist are people who showed up to vote for Joe Biden and he's alienating groups at an alarming rate.

Honestly sometimes seems like he is trying to lose. Young people, anti-war people, pro-immigration people, latinos, etc. He's even underwater with Black voters for the first time. Shedding support left and right.

Joe Biden is one arrogant motherfucker. He thinks because the other guy is Trump he doesn't have to do anything but say "look at Trump" and he'll win.

Big '16 energy. It isn't looking good.

It does explain why the Biden DOJ was in no rush to hold Trump accountable, though. He thought/thinks running against him will be a lay up.


On immigration this has absolutely been a disaster. Democrats have allowed the entire conversation to change- by engaging this way they have basically admitted that the border is in crisis (its not) and validated the fascist position.

No talk of dreamers, etc. No argument that immigration helps the economy. Just validated the GOP argument.

They can't play "gotcha" with the GOP either. These people can't be reasoned with. And the right believes this border crisis is Joe's fault and he could solve it if he wants to, etc.

In other words, a voter that says "wow, the GOP nuked their own bill...I'm voting for the people I was calling communist pedophiles yesterday" also does not exist.

Reminds me of when Obama nominated Garland rather than a Black woman, and everyone thought he was playing 3d chess because the GOP would HAVE to cave since they look like hypocrites. That...didn't work out.

So the best case scenario is Democrats are trying to pick up votes that aren't there, or they think they can play "gotcha" to win elections...even though it has literally never happened.

There's probably some of that. There is also a lot Joe Biden showing his true colors without Klein there, and we are witnessing in real time what a horrible candidate Joe Biden can be. Arrogant, dismissive, out of touch, overly donor friendly, stuck in the 90s, etc. No to mention he looks older by the day.


Either way, November SHOULD be a fucking bloodbath in favor of Democrats based on how terrible the other party is. But Biden and dems keep finding ways to move *CLOSER* to those nutjobs.

Most people here think there is a crisis. This is group you would expect to be aligned with what you just said. But this group is not. It seems Joe Biden's position is more in touch with this group than yours.

Again, I think the group that doesn't believe there is a problem will be the group left out the discussion on how to fix it. When the left put there head in the sand, the right gets to frame and control the issue.

I just really don't understand the "there is no crisis people".

Actually, I do. I think I might have thought about it differently if I thought about it much at all until 100K came into NYC in the last year or so.

Now It's become obvious to me that the asylum system is broken. How we house and process migrants is broken. How some states bear the costs and burdens of illegal immigration more than others doesn't make sense and how not having a national/federal strategy is a major problem.

And I am a person who believes that the US can take on a LOT more LEGAL immigrants if we have a legal process for it that works and that distributes immigrants through out the country (legal immigration helps the economy, not illegal immigration). It's a big ass country and many cities and towns need more workers and residents. So I am not even a close the border type.

Also, we have tried several times for a grand compromise that address path's to citizenship and they have all failed. And those were at times when Dems had more control of Congress.

At some point you have to read the room and figure out what actually can be done.

This will be the biggest issue in November and either Dems fix it now or GOPers will fix it their way after November is how I think about it.



>the last few months have been a disaster.
>
>Even if you give Democrats the benefit of the doubt that they
>*thought* this was some type of brilliant move (I don't) it is
>pretty clear they are shedding votes from their alleged big
>tent to chase the mythical moderate republican.
>
>On this instance, they abandoned their own voters to chase
>people who will never, ever vote for them,
>
>There is literally no one who is going "you know, I thought
>Joe Biden and the democrat cabal were a bunch of communist
>pedophiles, but now that he's adopted Trump's border policies
>I'm going to give this guy a shot"
>
>That person doesn't exist.
>
>The people do exist are people who showed up to vote for Joe
>Biden and he's alienating groups at an alarming rate.
>
>Honestly sometimes seems like he is trying to lose. Young
>people, anti-war people, pro-immigration people, latinos, etc.
> He's even underwater with Black voters for the first time.
>Shedding support left and right.
>
>Joe Biden is one arrogant motherfucker. He thinks because the
>other guy is Trump he doesn't have to do anything but say
>"look at Trump" and he'll win.
>
>Big '16 energy. It isn't looking good.
>
>It does explain why the Biden DOJ was in no rush to hold Trump
>accountable, though. He thought/thinks running against him
>will be a lay up.
>
>
>On immigration this has absolutely been a disaster. Democrats
>have allowed the entire conversation to change- by engaging
>this way they have basically admitted that the border is in
>crisis (its not) and validated the fascist position.
>
>No talk of dreamers, etc. No argument that immigration helps
>the economy. Just validated the GOP argument.
>
>They can't play "gotcha" with the GOP either. These people
>can't be reasoned with. And the right believes this border
>crisis is Joe's fault and he could solve it if he wants to,
>etc.
>
>In other words, a voter that says "wow, the GOP nuked their
>own bill...I'm voting for the people I was calling communist
>pedophiles yesterday" also does not exist.
>
>Reminds me of when Obama nominated Garland rather than a Black
>woman, and everyone thought he was playing 3d chess because
>the GOP would HAVE to cave since they look like hypocrites.
>That...didn't work out.
>
>So the best case scenario is Democrats are trying to pick up
>votes that aren't there, or they think they can play "gotcha"
>to win elections...even though it has literally never
>happened.
>
>There's probably some of that. There is also a lot Joe Biden
>showing his true colors without Klein there, and we are
>witnessing in real time what a horrible candidate Joe Biden
>can be. Arrogant, dismissive, out of touch, overly donor
>friendly, stuck in the 90s, etc. No to mention he looks older
>by the day.
>
>
>Either way, November SHOULD be a fucking bloodbath in favor of
>Democrats based on how terrible the other party is. But Biden
>and dems keep finding ways to move *CLOSER* to those nutjobs.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

are we facing one as a country? That answer might be different depending on where you live.

In NC, we have a ton of migrants so I have strong opinions on it.

Beyond alarmist news reports and racist conservatives, the most common type of undocumented migrant in America are people who have overstayed their visa, not people who came over across the Mexican border.

That's why I find these stunts by Desantis and Abbott so fucking aggravating, cities like Chicago and New York already have large numbers of people without papers in their cities. These dickheads fucking know that, and we allow the narrative to be set by racist cunts and Sinclair stations looking for a showy video clips instead of by hard facts.

Migration is a huge concern of course, but not in the way these racists want to portray it.

And it's not like you have to go on Fox News to get what's going on. You see the folks everywhere in the city. And to me the worst part is you see them out with kids in the middle of the day when they should be in school. Or having the kids begging or selling fruit.

It's a visible change because you didn't see that a few years ago.

And the issue is you have regular black people circulating fox news stories like this one I just got from a family member who has never sent me a fox news story in 20 years:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/adams-defends-pre-paid-migrant-cards-part-53m-nyc-pilot-program-not-giving-people-american-express


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

https://comptroller.nyc.gov/reports/facts-not-fear-how-welcoming-immigrants-benefits-new-york-city/

FACT: This is not an unprecedented surge in immigration

While New York City is seeing an unprecedented number of asylum seekers relying on the City’s shelter system, the U.S. and New York City have seen periods of comparable or greater growth in our immigrant population in the past:

The immigrant population in the U.S. has only risen marginally since 2021 — the growth of our immigrant population in 2022 is 2 million less than what the U.S. Census Bureau previously projected.
The period from 2012 to 2022 saw slower growth in the immigrant share of the population than the 2000s, 1990s, 1980s and 1970s.
In the 1990s, the U.S. immigrant population grew exponentially. The number of immigrants in the U.S. grew from 19 million to over 30 million between 1990-2000, an almost 5% increase in immigrants as a share of the total U.S. population.

The undocumented population in the U.S. has largely remained stable over the past 15 years.

The undocumented population peaked in 2007. The number of undocumented immigrants in the U.S. rose from an estimated 3.5 million people to a high of 12 million people between 1990 and 2007.
Since 2007 until 2021, the undocumented population in the United States has remained stable. It has not grown, but rather hovered around 11 million people nationwide for the last 15 years.
The undocumented population in New York City has been declining over the last decade. Approximately 476,000 undocumented immigrants lived in NYC in 2019, the most recent year data is available, as compared to 504,000 in 2018.

_________________________
I'm not denying that it's not an issue, and a serious one at that, but we as a country have more pressing issues. I think housing as a whole is much more of a crisis, and the reason why immigrants seem so much more visible now then they have in the past. NYC has always struggled with adequate housing for lower and middle class people, and now the entire country is being buried under high interest rates for buying and higher rents for renting, which of course leads to less housing for people whom are under even more financial strain and the added pressure of not being documented.

First off the page keeps going between NYC and US stats. Then they are using old ass stats!!!! Look here:




>https://comptroller.nyc.gov/reports/facts-not-fear-how-welcoming-immigrants-benefits-new-york-city/
>
>FACT: This is not an unprecedented surge in immigration
>
>While New York City is seeing an unprecedented number of
>asylum seekers relying on the City’s shelter system, the
>U.S. and New York City have seen periods of comparable or
>greater growth in our immigrant population in the past:



I mean up top they are admitting that it's an unprecedented numbers of asylum seekers. That's the story. That's the whole issue. The system for Asylum seekers are overwhelmed in the US. It's weird they try and throw away that fact when that's the fact New Yorkers care about.




> The immigrant population in the U.S. has only risen
>marginally since 2021 — the growth of our immigrant
>population in 2022 is 2 million less than what the U.S.
>Census Bureau previously projected.
> The period from 2012 to 2022 saw slower growth in the
>immigrant share of the population than the 2000s, 1990s,
>1980s and 1970s.
> In the 1990s, the U.S. immigrant population grew
>exponentially. The number of immigrants in the U.S. grew
>from 19 million to over 30 million between 1990-2000, an
>almost 5% increase in immigrants as a share of the total U.S.
>population.
>
>The undocumented population in the U.S. has largely remained
>stable over the past 15 years.



> The undocumented population peaked in 2007. The number of
>undocumented immigrants in the U.S. rose from an estimated
>3.5 million people to a high of 12 million people between 1990
>and 2007.
> Since 2007 until 2021, the undocumented population in the
>United States has remained stable. It has not grown, but
>rather hovered around 11 million people nationwide for the
>last 15 years.


OK. Now they are using US stats. OK. Maybe that has remained stable but people have been saying it's a crisis for a long time. If we all acknowledge that the system is broken and not working, how can that not be a crisis?

New Yorkers are now getting to understand it's a crisis because now they have to deal with it.



The undocumented population in New York City has been
>declining over the last decade. Approximately 476,000
>undocumented immigrants lived in NYC in 2019, the most recent
>year data is available, as compared to 504,000 in 2018.


OK now they are back to talking about NYC and going to try and say with a straight face that the number is declining by looking at the last decade. But look at footnote 59. The citation for that is a document from 2020. A year that include the pandemic!!!

As the page later admits there is a global migration crisis in the last few years but why are they citing numbers that are 4 years old!?!?!?!

Venezuela, a country of 28 million, has had about 7 million people flee the country. Now only a fraction of them are ending up in the US but with numbers like that how can there not be a migration crisis?!?!







>
>_________________________
>I'm not denying that it's not an issue, and a serious one at
>that, but we as a country have more pressing issues. I think
>housing as a whole is much more of a crisis, and the reason
>why immigrants seem so much more visible now then they have in
>the past. NYC has always struggled with adequate housing for
>lower and middle class people, and now the entire country is
>being buried under high interest rates for buying and higher
>rents for renting, which of course leads to less housing for
>people whom are under even more financial strain and the added
>pressure of not being documented.
>


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

The political brinksmanship due to political divides is driving the issue. White Governors are promoting the issue of not wanting people of color "infiltrating" they're states even though that's overstating the issue. They don't like that their constituency might change demographically so they drum up the issue. We should be more stringent with the visa overstay issue... and what about the northern border?

we need to deny their citizenship at least back to their great grandparents and deport them

lol

any non-indigenous resident of Turtle Island can't say shit about a 'migration problem'

anyone who wants to talk about closing the border, needs to read "the Open Veins of Latin America" or at least have a base understanding of US influence in Central/South America politics.


what we DO have is a 'late stage capitalism' problem and establishment is playing the age-old game of divide and conquer by blaming economic woes or 'crime waves' on other marginalized groups.