Why
Theres a Black at (insert company) work group
And I get that its work and not a “safe space”
But Im specifically trying to recruit for our team “within” and I got a lot of people not “within” that ingroup reaching out
And there are diversity groups for these non ingroup folks with WAY more representation so it’s not as if there’s not a space for them.

Like there’s no reason for a non Black person to need to be in a designated Black space at work
Like the individual gain that one person gets comes at the expense of everyone else
I had posted in there trying to ramp up the Black network because our team has grown to over 140 people, the pipeline appears to be interns, and out of those 140 I’m the ONLY Black person on the team.
So why did a young asian woman reach out to me to say she saw my message on the chat and wants to find out more about the role.

And not a lot of Chuck Brown.

cross contaminate. they want men joining women's groups (and the opposite), youngsters joining old head groups, and definitely any cultural groups can be joined by anyone.

It’s specifically a Black space
The DEI group is literally named “Black at ___”

shes mexican/japanese/german/korean
grew up in charleston around geechie folk
most of the people who she gravitates towards are black
joined a black partner network at work
everything was all good until new leadership was being asked for
well everyone wanted her to lead
she said no
she recommended to have another women (black) lead and my wife would be under her
ended up my wife doing all the work and this other women collecting the glory
things boiled over and my wife left
network fell apart
fin

These communities serve a purpose. If their purpose is to be inclusive they don't need to exist. Inclusivity should be the organizational default.
So in your example, your wife should have 1. Never been in the group and 2. The group should’ve focused in on their mission instead of trying to champion diversity


When you co-opt diversity and “but Black” it feels more like a branding opportunity rather than a purpose drive decision. Like these groups cant stand out enough on their own and so they need 1. External validation and 2. A passive lowering of expectations. Like don’t judge me too hard because I’m Black. That’s what bothers me the most about “branding Black”. It takes no work to meet your target audience. People are just expected to give.

i tried to prevent her from doing it for these very reasons
but got to learn the lesson on your own
especially when you want to give to the community at large
now she creates her own space and brings people in

one person does the heavy lifting while other people shake hands and get the glory.

which is bittersweet

The purpose doesn't have anything to do with diversity of inclusiveness, it's to improve the experience of black employees.

If I am at a company that doesn't have a lot of black employees, then I want to know who the allies are. I don't need an internal organization for a black safe space. If there are 4 of us who work there, I am going to find you and we can go to lunch and talk all the shit we want about our white co-workers.

But once it's company sponsored, it's not a safe space. If the younger folks think its the space to talk about their cracker co-workers, they are in for a rude awakening.


I think industry orgs are a little different, but not much.




>These communities serve a purpose. If their purpose is to be
>inclusive they don't need to exist. Inclusivity should be the
>organizational default.
>So in your example, your wife should have 1. Never been in the
>group and 2. The group should’ve focused in on their mission
>instead of trying to champion diversity
>
>
>When you co-opt diversity and “but Black” it feels more
>like a branding opportunity rather than a purpose drive
>decision. Like these groups cant stand out enough on their
>own and so they need 1. External validation and 2. A passive
>lowering of expectations. Like don’t judge me too hard
>because I’m Black. That’s what bothers me the most about
>“branding Black”. It takes no work to meet your target
>audience. People are just expected to give.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

So how is the experience of Black employees enhanced by branding a space for everyone as a space tailored for Black employees.

<=========================================
https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/PYzh4v9cSf4FDnq3yMQyqNqh79o=/800x0/filters:no_upscale%28%29/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/4079674/jlio.0.gif

and forgetting its part of their job.

There is no safe space at work. If there is something you wouldn't say in front of a white colleague, don't say it in a Black ERG group. To put another way, figure out how to say what you need to say as if there are white people in the room.

With that in mind, I say yeah, I have no issue with non-black people being in Black company related groups.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

>
>With that in mind, I say yeah, I have no issue with non-black
>people being in Black company related groups.
>

So what is their value to Black people then?

Other people have dropped ankh shit in their
All appropriate for work stuff
What happens when someone from the outgroup feels excluded from the dialogue but only because they lack the ingroup lived experience

mind they business lol

Yall know that

if that happens, I'd respond accordingly.

I also don't think it's possible to exclude folks at work, even if the group isn't for everyone.

Anti Blackness is a weapon
Always had been
Always will be
To act like there’s on one hand a dismissal that the likely thing that happens a lot wont happen here AND that there’s no way to prepare for it seems more like yall want to just not have a Black space.
Which yall have stated both it should be inclusive and that it cant be exclusive
Which is fine. But those arent Black spaces
This space exists, it has been carved out to be Black.
Which means those things need to be considered and to not do so is irresponsible.

weren't said. I didn't say you shouldn't prepare for anti-blackness. if you're creating a space for blackness, that should include prep for those that are against it.

my contention is that I don't see how you can be exclusive at work. what mechanisms can be put into place to stop others from joining? having Black in group name isn't going to do that. So when others do show up, the prep for anti-blackness can be exercised when they display their tendencies.

Up and the other poster saying that rationality takes over (or what sane people do)
And there should be enough understanding about how Blackness is policed to know thats not true
So my point is still
This isn't a designated diverse space
This is a designated Black space and it seems like every reply wants to talk around that

space, regardless of intent. others will be interested for various reasons.

Other groups create exclusive spaces at work and outside of work ALL the time
But when Black people talk even amongst ourselves it's as if the idea of Black exclusive space can't even be imagined unless it was enforced externally
Like the idea that we have to be segregated is the only time that we get to have our own shit is whack to me
The idea that someone would ask an in-group person, inside of a non invited space, while being an outsider is whack to me
Sometimes shit just isn't for others and that's ok
I don't participate in dwali, it's not for me
I don't participate in Hanukah, it's not for me
What I learn I pick up here and there, but when someone NEEDS to be a tourist on someone else's culture that's a deficiency within them
Nobody should have to be obligated to explain, if you know you know and if not it's not for you

so I agree with you in sentiment. However, if I wanted to join the asian, latin, or women's groups, there's no way for them to stop me. those spaces aren't designed with me in mind and I don't interfere or put myself in their way.

they may be tourists for sure. part of me believes culture should be shared, but that's more utopian. real world, folks will intrude, make it about them, and will need to be checked for it.

Why would anyone have the expectation of having an exclusive space at work?

That's my big thing about work is not like college. Folks need to have totally different expectations about what they can get out of work. If a black programmer wants an space exclusive for black programmers, don't look for Microsoft to provide it.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

These are the employee resource groups
Stated mission is to create an open community for employees who share common interests and goals to work with and support one another

The groups not need be exclusive, but inclusivity for the outside is not the stated goal

Additionally there are many ways to be involved with a group (events, outings, etc) without joining the chat. Which you seem to keep missing.

There’s no reason for her to be in that chat.

I’m not going to sit here and pretend yall here dont know that others feel entitled to Black access and respond destructively when denied it.

>I’m not going to sit here and pretend yall here dont know
>that others feel entitled to Black access and respond
>destructively when denied it.
>

>mind they business lol

I wish it was just a race thing.

Buuut

So many people are broken even beyond that. Earth has become so internetty that if someone sees/hears something they don't know, there's a higher than reasonable chance that they'll 'feel excluded' because someone referenced something they didn't know. And you know its a wrap for some of these folks when they 'feel excluded'. Especially in a DEI-specific meeting or environment? Shiiiiiiiid!

Or they'll try to break up the party like 'I don't know the reference. And I'm me! So its crazy that someone else WOULD KNOW IT! And anyway, saying 'Damn, damn, damn James!' isn't even funny!'.

And don't you dare try to fill them in on whatever reference they don't get cuz you might get the business like 'I ain't trying to do all that research and sh!t..I'm busy!'. Some of these folks is tew much!

If you want to dismiss or flatten the race conversation that Im talking about feel free to explain that to someone else, Im only choosing to view this race thing through a racial lens

Thanks for keeping the focus. Every time the issue of race concerning Black folks is addressed, there's always someone to interject a 'but what about...' or claiming we must see the bigger picture.

Dude you may be working at the wrong company if you feel like you could get in trouble because a person went to the HR department and said they felt excluded because you dropped a living single .gif or an anhk in the Black ERG group chat. That's a bad working environment (which a lot of admittedly work at).

No where did I say be less black or be afraid to be black in a black ERG setting.

In my work ERG group we had a played a pull your black card online game which had the couple of white people in the group looking complexed a few times.

I'm just saying if you are at work related event, whether it's an ERG group, holiday party, after work drinks, you are always on work time and not in safe space to say whatever is on your mind. I don't think that comes at the price of not being your black natural self.




>Other people have dropped ankh shit in their
>All appropriate for work stuff
>What happens when someone from the outgroup feels excluded
>from the dialogue but only because they lack the ingroup lived
>experience


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

I don't trust them.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

hired a racist POS who let me go in August

we had a meeting early on and when asked what bothers him in todays world he said "no comment, I don't want to get in trouble" which was code for "woke shit bothers me"

>hired a racist POS who let me go in August
>
>we had a meeting early on and when asked what bothers him in
>todays world he said "no comment, I don't want to get in
>trouble" which was code for "woke shit bothers me"
>
>

without having to report to the VP who I don't fuck with... for obvious reasons.

learn to kindly** turn that ass away.

**If you care to be kind