All of this happened before public release of video (set for tomorrow)

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64420124

Five former police officers in Tennessee have been charged with second-degree murder after a man died following a traffic stop.

Tyre Nichols, 29, was stopped in Memphis on 7 January for reckless driving. He died three days later.

Officials will give an update on Thursday and video of the arrest is expected to be released later.

The city's police chief earlier urged people to stay calm once the footage is made public.

"This is not just a professional failing. This is a failing of basic humanity toward another individual," Police Chief CJ Davis said.

The five officers, all of whom joined the Memphis Police Department in the last six years, were fired last week after an investigation found them to be "directly responsible for the physical abuse of Mr Nichols".

Tadarrius Bean, Demetrius Haley, Desmond Mills Jr, Emmitt Martin III and Justin Smith are all in custody, jail records show.

All have been charged with second-degree murder, aggravated assault, aggravated kidnapping, official misconduct and official oppression.

A lawyer for one of the former officers, Mr Mills Jr, said he would hold a news conference later on Thursday. Another lawyer who represents Mr Martin III confirmed his client had been charged and had turned himself in.

The Nichols family and their lawyers privately reviewed the video footage of the arrest earlier this week. "He was a human piñata. It was an unadulterated, unabashed, non-stop beating of this young boy for three minutes," lawyer Antonio Romanucci said of its contents.

On Wednesday, the family's lawyers said an autopsy indicated he had been severely beaten.


Mr Nichols was stopped by police on his way to a local park, his mother said. City officials said police officers pulled him over for reckless driving and two "confrontations" occurred.

According to authorities, the first happened as officers approached the vehicle and he attempted to flee on foot. They said the second confrontation happened when officers tried to arrest him.

Mr Nichols later complained of shortness of breath and was taken to hospital, police said, where he was listed in a critical condition. Officials said Mr Nichols had "succumbed to his injuries" on 10 January, but provided no further detail. An official cause of death has not yet been disclosed.

The FBI and the Department of Justice have opened a civil rights investigation into Mr Nichols's death.

"My son was a beautiful soul," said Mr Nichols's mother, Rowvaughn Wells. "Nobody is perfect, but he was damn near." She called her son's death a "murder".

just want the same energy for white cops

5 white cops would've been "suspended with pay pending an internal sham investigation," that would've turned up no findings of misconduct, and they would've been back on the job in 2 weeks or less.

I hate this place.

to the white cops

couldn’t even get paid leave for a few months..

They beat that man to a pulp. He also had a chronic health condition
that prevented him from being able to gain weight. He was a skinny individual.

We expect heinous acts like this from white, racist officers, but for
black officers to beat a black person to death? It’s beyond comprehension.

We can’t even catch a break from our own kind.

White officers brutalize black men. Black officers brutalize black men….
while most white men get a pass by both white and black officers.

I would bet my entire life savings that they wouldn’t have laid a finger on
him if he were white.

Fock every last one of them.

without injuring him so badly he dies? shit is disgraceful.

Imagine being like that. Like being able to do that to a person. What type of fucking sociopathic psychotic piece of shit you'd have to be. The types of thoughts that would be running through your tiny brain. It's all so unfathomable to me.

My wife's sorority retreat has been postponed. After school activities for kids have been canceled. One of my friends is a HS basketball coach and he said their game may move to tomorrow. The International Blues Competition downtown may skip tonight's opening and push everything back a day. And my job is considering letting us leave at noon to finish work from home. Now if the candlelight vigil last night is any indication hopefully the protest will be peaceful as well. The city is a powder keg right now.

not trying to defend or stall but for the cities sake that video should be released on a Monday morning.

If its as bad as they suggest I can’t see how the city doesn’t burn tonight and all weekend.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Monday should've been the day it is released. Even walking downtown getting breakfast before I came in people just seem on edge. Friday mornings downtown is usually quiet anyway, but its a different quiet this morning.

nm

damn just read the article.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/memphis-police-chief-video-tyre-nichols_n_63d3c893e4b01e92886a49a9

smh.. just goes to show you that cops have been trained to kill us.

nm

which is entirely possible since the victim did actually die unlike what happened to Rodney King or that Memphis Police union must be incredibly weak.

Pardon me for being a stereotypically self-centered New Yorker, but both state and local government official have to walk on pins and needles with the NYPD makes misstep because of how overbearingly strong the local police unions are here. I could be wrong, but that doesn't appear to be the case here.

>Pardon me for being a stereotypically self-centered New
>Yorker, but both state and local government official have to
>walk on pins and needles with the NYPD makes misstep because
>of how overbearingly strong the local police unions are here.
>I could be wrong, but that doesn't appear to be the case
>here.

I don't know, but there hasn't been a peep out of the unions according to the news reports/articles I've seen and read.

Police union strength is a hugely important variable in this entire dynamic and it's illuminating to hear from a New Yorker who has seen that kind of power instrumentalized in some genuinely gruesome ways. One thing that our nationwide police discussion has often kind of failed to fully grasp is that POLICE is an organized political constituency with the ability to exercise violent, coercive power over citizens and, often, veto power over local government. Their unions are an axis of that power, and essential in organizing and directing it. Which, uh, is why they should be firmly and permanently disarticulated. Police are not workers.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/19/nyregion/nypd-sergeants-union-ed-mullins-fraud.html

and the head of the nypd union is a trump supporter

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/14/nyregion/ny-police-unions-racial-disparity-trump.html

She signed off on and allowed these "intimidation squads" to exist. She's the Chief, its on her.

.

They are releasing it at prime time. Doing all kinds of interviews leading up to the release.

This is exactly how I'd do it if I wanted to cause the most chaos

Like they *want* some shit to go down.


Also, had the officers been white the video would have dropped on 11 am on a Wednesday or some shit.

Darren Wilson(murderer of Mike Brown) decision not to prosecute was released

>They are releasing it at prime time. Doing all kinds of
>interviews leading up to the release.
>
>This is exactly how I'd do it if I wanted to cause the most
>chaos

This happens bc shit like this shouldnt happen. The officers were denounced, fired and charged pretty quickly. When they decide to release the footage and those considerations are whatever to me.

Motherfuckers are being held accountable... thats what i care about

I’m sure the police union is relieved they wont have to pay these dudes while on leave so there is more money for white cops when they do the same crime next time.

Not directed at you, its just how I feel.

and I’m not saying paid leave for these assholes.. but until I see swift justice when its white cops I’m not going to be impressed seeing them hold certain cops accountable.

happen when cops break the law to this degree.

I won't be impressed when they do this white cops either. Its also what's supposed to happen.

I can't stomach them anymore.

If they release it on a Monday morning, it dominates the news cycle before it gets dark and whatever protests are likely to occur. The PD and politicians would have to spend all day dealing with questions and inqiries.

By releasing it Friday evening, they figure it's after the week's news cycle has effectively ended. By Monday, the story has shifted to whatever protests their were over the weekend, and the PD's "heroic" efforts to prevent anarchy. Or, if nothing happens, then the Monday news cycle can get taken up by any other sort of shit that happened over the weekend, including football.

it’s understandable why they would wait to release it on a Friday evening

Video is as bad as you'd think. They basically took turns beating a man in handcuffs to death. Even pushing each other out of the way to get their turn.

I hesitate to say this, because of how completely and totally awful what's shown in the video is on every possible level, but one of the things that struck me is how the five cops were absolutely inept, pathetic clowns. They had no idea what the fuck they were doing, and acted like they were bullies jumping someone.

Fuck them all. Under the prison. Forever.

held accountable too

One of them are white. A Sheriff’s Deputy I think

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/30/us/tyre-nichols-protests-monday/index.html

This is the one who I believe tased Tyre and can be heard on body cam footage stating loudly that he hopes the officers who were running after Tyre stomp him out.

Let's see how his charges (if any) play out. He was only suspended, not fired.

He didn't beat Tyre and wasn't at the scene of his murder though, but he did participate in chasing him, tasing him, and encouraging others to cause him bodily harm.

not a good look on many levels

Is this a change by the DA or is it some sort of plea agreement/settlement?

Whatever happens I'd expect a civil trial to bury these Cops in debt for the rest of their lives too.


Here are the charges I found they are facing:
Second-degree murder - defined in Tennessee law as a "knowing killing of another", which need not be premeditated

Aggravated assault - meaning an assault committed knowingly, which causes serious injury

Aggravated kidnapping - false imprisonment of a person. It is "aggravated" if the victim suffers an injury or happens if the assailant has a deadly weapon. Each officer faces two counts of this

Official misconduct - covers a range of wrongful acts by those acting as public servants. Again, each officer faces two counts

Official oppression - an offence which happens when a public servant intentionally subjects a victim to mistreatment, such as arrest or detention

will most likely be separated and handled differently and the difficulty of proving 2nd degree murder in a court of law.

And we don't know how far this will go, the county sheriff suspended 2 of his officers that were there even though they didn't participate after seeing the video.

And nobody knows how high this is going to go. Police officers have supervisors like everybody else, where were they and what did they do or say afterwards? The chief is saying all the right things now but she is the person that created these "SCORPION"(Street Crimes Operation to Restore Peace in Our Neighborhoods) units a couple of years ago so all this happened under her watch.

He's an idiot. He says outrageous shit for clickbait. Thats why he has a survey and his social media tags plastered all over his show.

But it's always jarring to hear how the cops talk.
All the aggression, screaming, cussing. Cops turn into street thugs when they try to make arrests.

The fact that they act like that on camera with no worries tells me that's a police culture thing that has to change. Police need to be professional no matter the circumstances

>But it's always jarring to hear how the cops talk.
>All the aggression, screaming, cussing. Cops turn into street
>thugs when they try to make arrests.
>
>The fact that they act like that on camera with no worries
>tells me that's a police culture thing that has to change.
>Police need to be professional no matter the circumstances

yeah basically if you say a person "attacked you" or "reached for your gun" gives you carte blanche to do whatever you want to them afterwards

prolly bullshit but I think people need to make up some type of story because they can’t fathom cops acting like this for no reason.

I only seen a little from the utility pole camera but I can’t watch all of that.

>prolly bullshit but I think people need to make up some type
>of story because they can’t fathom cops acting like this for
>no reason.
>
>I only seen a little from the utility pole camera but I
>can’t watch all of that.

If that were true that might up it to 1st degree murder

>But it's always jarring to hear how the cops talk.
>All the aggression, screaming, cussing. Cops turn into street
>thugs when they try to make arrests.
>
>The fact that they act like that on camera with no worries
>tells me that's a police culture thing that has to change.
>Police need to be professional no matter the circumstances

Not implying that you're giving them a pass but all talk of culture change and reform won't do anything. There's a training course that teaches them how to get away with murder literally. Punish them with life sentences and loss of pension. There's another route that works but I don't want anyone labeling me as anti police.

If you every police officer received a life sentence and lost pension these killings stop. Making the insurance industry pay is another option.

Life sentences isn’t happening but firing and loss of pensions should but in a lot of cities police unions are powerful

How the fuck did he escape being mentioned or having charges? He's the one that actually fired his taser and is heard saying "i hope they stomp his ass."

https://twitter.com/Amberisms_/status/1619828433164599296

>How the fuck did he escape being mentioned or having charges?
>He's the one that actually fired his taser and is heard saying
>"i hope they stomp his ass."
>
>https://twitter.com/Amberisms_/status/1619828433164599296

I definitely thought I saw a white officer in the video, and like I said before, where was the supervisor and what did they do or say? this should go up the chain not stop with those 5 officers

that fuck is going to get paid leave

>that fuck is going to get paid leave

>that fuck is going to get paid leave


He was relieved of duty this morning. Administrative leave. MPD is still saying its "still unclear" how he was involved.


SMH. He's the one who tasered Tyre and said clearly on camera "I hope they stomp his ass"

shit's about to get real interesting now...

https://apnews.com/article/tyre-nichols-memphis-police-officer-suspended-179a49b0e8b1c6494af2e6408581d47f

I need these other officers fired.

Get his ass.

Scorpion Unit Emerged as Memphis Police Pursued Get-Tough Strategy

City leaders had praised the new group as a key strategy for fighting crime. Now they are trying to assess whether it was flawed from the start.

MEMPHIS — Chief Cerelyn Davis of the Memphis Police had been on the job for only a few months in 2021 when she saw that homicide numbers were rising toward a record. Near her new home downtown, drivers were buzzing wildly through the streets, often late at night. She had a plan to confront the mayhem.

For reckless drivers, she told her team, officers were to focus less on writing tickets and more on an all-out strategy of seizing cars from the most dangerous drivers. Violent offenders needed to be targeted with new urgency. If the state could not take a case to court, she determined, her agency should ask federal prosecutors to take the case instead.

“We all have that understanding about being tough on tough people,” she said at a community event in November of that year.

Two days later, Chief Davis, the first African American woman to lead the department, launched her most ambitious strategy: a new police unit named Scorpion — or Street Crimes Operation to Restore Peace in Our Neighborhoods — would deploy some 40 officers as a strike team in some of the most volatile corners of the city.

Before long, some residents complained of heavy-handed tactics, of officers from the new Scorpion team employing punitive policing in response to relatively minor offenses. Then came the arrest and killing of Tyre Nichols, and video footage released on Friday that showed how officers kicked, punched and used a baton to beat Mr. Nichols as he pleaded with them to let him go home.

With five officers charged with murder, community leaders are now trying to assess how a unit that was supposed to ease the violence in Memphis had instead inflicted an attack so brutal that Chief Davis herself called it “heinous” and “inhumane.” The city announced the disbanding of the unit on Saturday, and Chief Davis has called for a review of all her department’s specialized units.

“We still want crime addressed in our communities, but we don’t need to kill innocent people to do it,” said Van D. Turner Jr., a mayoral candidate who is president of the city’s N.A.A.C.P. branch and who served on the recent mayoral advisory council for “reimagining policing.”
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Image
A number of police officers are seated and standing in a room, listening to a man giving a briefing. Some of the officers are in uniform, some are in street clothes.
Memphis Police Department officers attending a roll-call briefing for the department’s Scorpion unit in 2021.Credit...Memphis Police Department/via Reuters
A number of police officers are seated and standing in a room, listening to a man giving a briefing. Some of the officers are in uniform, some are in street clothes.

The city had for months touted the Scorpion team as key to its crime-fighting strategy, promoting it as nearly an overnight success at a time when the city was posting record homicide numbers. Memphis recorded more than 300 murders in 2021; by comparison, New York City, which is 13 times larger, had fewer than 500.

Just a few days after the Scorpion unit was unveiled, one local television report noted that the Memphis police credited it with making more than 30 arrests, and seizing at least 29 guns and nearly 170 grams of marijuana.

Scorpion’s supposed successes became a talking point for city officials, including Mayor Jim Strickland, who highlighted the unit during his January 2022 State of the City speech and listed its early accomplishments: 566 arrests, 390 of them for felonies, as well as seizures of $103,000 in cash, 270 vehicles and 253 weapons.

As she marked her one-year anniversary on the job in May 2022, Chief Davis gave a presentation to the City Council in which she noted some progress in curtailing crime. In a slide titled “CRIME REDUCTION,” the Scorpion unit was her first bullet point.

“We created the new Scorpion unit,” she said, adding: “This unit basically targets some of the hot-spot areas where we saw frequent aggravated assaults and high crime.”

Like much of the country, Memphis had seen its homicide numbers jump in 2020 and 2021. Those numbers eased somewhat last year, but it was not clear how much credit could be given to the Scorpion unit, as many cities also saw declines in 2022. Memphis recorded a rise in property crimes last year.

Some activists and community members had been wary about the operations of the Scorpion unit long before the attack on Mr. Nichols.

Hunter Dempster, an organizer with Decarcerate Memphis, a group pushing for accountability in the criminal justice system, said on Sunday that his organization has long been warning about the Scorpion team. He said the unit’s main mission had appeared to be conducting mass pullovers in poor neighborhoods that are home to many people of color.

He described the officers in the unit as “violent” bullies and said many residents had also questioned why the unit often used unmarked vehicles, “regular cars that you would never think were police.”
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In any case, he said, people were prepared for trouble whenever a Scorpion unit conducted a traffic stop.
Image
Police officers can be seen talking to a man on a sidewalk next to a car. In the darkness, the scene is lit by a streetlight.
Body camera footage of Memphis police officers talking to Tyre Nichols, who was beaten and later died from his injuries. Credit...City of Memphis, via Associated Press
Police officers can be seen talking to a man on a sidewalk next to a car. In the darkness, the scene is lit by a streetlight.

“If you get pulled over, you know that there’s potential for violence,” he said. “That’s how terrified the general public is of these units.”

Such debates have echoed in cities around the country, with a number of cities once again setting up specialized units to aggressively target offenders in high-crime neighborhoods during the pandemic — in some cases, this happened in cities that had disbanded such units in past years when concerns rose over the units’ tactics or outcomes.

In 2020, for instance, the New York Police Department disbanded the aggressive squads known as “anti-crime units” that had patrolled the city, often in plainclothes. Such teams, tasked with focusing on getting guns off the street, had conducted an outsize share of gun arrests. But they were also responsible for a disproportionate number of stop-and-frisks, as well as police shootings. Last year, the new mayor, Eric Adams, himself a former police commander, revived a version of these units, though officers now wear modified police uniforms, rather than street clothes.

Mr. Adams was one of a number of local politicians around the country who won election over the past two years after running on get-tough-on-crime platforms.

Lawyers representing Mr. Nichols’s family have called on federal officials to investigate hot-spot police units, saying that they often operate with impunity, oppressing young people and communities of color. Antonio Romanucci, one of the family’s lawyers, said that while the intent of the unit was good, the result was a failure.

“This Scorpion unit was designed to saturate under the guise of crime-fighting, and what it wound up doing instead was creating a continual pattern and practice of bad behavior,” he said. The lawyers said they had heard of other cases before Mr. Nichols’s death in which the Scorpion unit had used excessive force.

In laying out her crime-fighting strategy in 2021, Chief Davis spoke in particular about reckless driving in Memphis, calling it the worst she had seen in her career and expressing fear about being on the roadways herself.

The city had been dealing with drag racing and stunt driving. On a Saturday night in late November, all four lanes of traffic were blocked on Interstate 240 when two drivers began doing doughnuts on the highway, with a number of onlookers recording the activity on their phones. Local officials used the incident as ammunition to call for more legal leeway to seize violators’ cars.

“We have advocated: Take the car,” Chief Davis said in 2021. “Even if the case gets dropped in court. We witnessed it. You did it. You might be inconvenienced for three days without your car. That’s enough.”

The police said they stopped Mr. Nichols on the night of Jan. 7 on suspicion of reckless driving, though Chief Davis later told NBC News that the department had been unable to find evidence for why he had been stopped. Video showed officers surrounding Mr. Nichols’s vehicle at an intersection, cursing at him and pulling him out of the driver-side door. Mr. Nichols spoke in calm tones, seemingly trying to de-escalate the situation, as officers continued to curse and yell.
Image
A Black woman is holding a sign that says, “Where’s the Transparency,” surrounded by other people also holding protest signs.
Linda Jones, 56, center, a mother of two Black sons, spoke at a protest outside of the Memphis Police Department Ridgeway Station on Sunday.Credit...Desiree Rios/The New York Times
A Black woman is holding a sign that says, “Where’s the Transparency,” surrounded by other people also holding protest signs.

After police officers beat him, he was eventually taken to the hospital in critical condition. Mr. Nichols died three days later. His family’s lawyers said an independent autopsy found that Mr. Nichols “suffered extensive bleeding caused by a severe beating.”

In the wake of the announcement on Saturday that the unit would be disbanded, some city officials said they wanted to take a look at what marching orders the unit was given when it was created.

“We were all tripping over ourselves to give them compliments because we have a violent crime problem and drag racing problem,” said one member of the City Council, Worth Morgan. “But it was done under the pretext that they would protect and serve and not violate anyone’s rights, and these officers did in a hugely problematic way.”

Another council member, Frank Colvett Jr., said he had not heard complaints about Scorpion before Mr. Nichols’s death but agreed with the decision to disband it.

“I support shutting the unit down until we know more about their recruiting and exactly how they are trained,” he said.

On Sunday, a group of about a dozen protesters were gathered outside the Memphis Police Department’s Ridgeway Station for the third consecutive day of protests.

At the demonstration, Casio Montez said in an interview that deactivating the Scorpion unit was a positive first step but that organizers also wanted another anti-crime unit — a special operations team focused on illegal drugs — to be disbanded.

Mr. Montez said that he had been stopped by the Scorpion unit in the past, including once when he said he was “roughed up” by officers on the unit.

“It wasn’t frightening,” Mr. Montez said. “I just know it was unjustified.”

Mr. Montez, who is Black, said that his experience in encounters with the unit is that the officers “only escalate the situation.”

“They get out on a situation that is probably a Level 3, but they get out of the car like it’s a Level 10,” Mr. Montez said. “So at the end of the day, we have to disassemble the whole department and build it back up. Until we do that, there’s going to be an

she is responsible for this scorpion unit

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11693613/Memphis-cop-set-aggressive-Scorpion-task-force-charge-corrupt-unit-Atlanta.html

The top cop behind the SCORPION unit - disbanded after its officers were charged in the death of Tyre Nichols - previously led another controversial unit that too was shut down.

Memphis Police Chief Cerelyn Davis launched the 'elite' team SCORPION unit in 2021, which was made up of 40 officers.

But the unit was deactivated after three of them were involved in the violent beating and death of Tyre Nichols, 29, on January 7.

DailyMail.com can reveal Davis was previously in charge of the infamous REDDOG Unit while working at Atlanta Police, where she was also embroiled in a child pornography scandal.

It was disbanded over accusations of 'excessive force' and 'police brutality'.

https://www.localmemphis.com/article/news/crime/memphis-police-7th-officer-relieved-of-duty-tyre-nichols-death/522-f187660c-9831-4be0-8d33-9ced7e59013e

Understand fired police officers typically get rehired in smaller towns off the grid across the country.

>Understand fired police officers typically get rehired in
>smaller towns off the grid across the country.

the investigation is still ongoing and further charges may be coming

because that uncooked bacon continues to get MORE money after George was executed on camera, with no legislative accountability whatsoever to show for.

>because that uncooked bacon continues to get MORE money after
>George was executed on camera, with no legislative
>accountability whatsoever to show for.

and some are saying it right now. And using bad faith arguments like 'what about rapists? are you just gonna allow them to go free?'

As if people don't know what words mean and think 'rebuild' means to tear down something and not put something else in its place.
The current policing system was made up. It's not the word of God or the universe. We can make something else up. C'mon.

>As if people don't know what words mean and think 'rebuild'
>means to tear down something and not put something else in its
>place.
>The current policing system was made up. It's not the word of
>God or the universe. We can make something else up. C'mon.

But as SevenCents posted (...a direct bite 'cause I don't have time right now...lol):

You've either not engaged in any discussion or reading of police abolitionists, or maybe you're against any changes to current system that has seen police kill more people in the US last year than any other year...and who 99.9999% of the time never face charges or discipline.

police abolish calls for replacing the armed badged gangs with networks of social workers, mental health workers...taking the trillions of dollars from police forces and using that to programs to improve communities and provide basic standards of living, housing, education and health services to people...all things this country has the resources for, we just chose not to because police, prisons, courts, keeping people in debt is good for business.

Yeah, Abolish the Police is on that Fuck the Police energy....because FUCK THE POLICE.

They serve and protect capital and property.
Not people. Never people.

couple of books that are worth checking that go into the topic you raised:

Becoming Abolishonists by Derecka Purnell
https://www.versobooks.com/books/3925-becoming-abolitionists

End of Policing by Alex Vitale
https://www.versobooks.com/books/2426-the-end-of-policing


this is a great interview with Derecka Purnell on The Daily Show last year:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUtpuU4mzOM

Oh, and the question 'what are you going to put in place of it?' is a deflection from the many and much larger issues. The current police state wasn't created by just one person, it was created by many. It will take just as many, if not more, to recreate a system of true justice and effective outreach community programs. It's disingenuous to ask or to expect one person to have all the answers and fix a system that has been in place for over 100 years. We know shit ain't working. We need to come together, discuss/create ideas, and move forward to creating a better and just system. And not be so quick to shoot down ideas outside the conventional norm.

With confronting a robbery, rape or murder in progress.

My guess is a gun, team, some degree of civil immunity and the authority to make an arrest.

This whole thing is a ridiculous troll by you guys.

Regarding your other examples (robbery, murder, mass shootings), regular ass people are probably as, if not more, successful, in stopping these things as cops.


>With confronting a robbery, rape or murder in progress.
>
>My guess is a gun, team, some degree of civil immunity and the
>authority to make an arrest.
>
>This whole thing is a ridiculous troll by you guys.

They will respond to you call. That is the agency you call.

You thick human.

>They will respond to you call.

Will they, you dumb fuck ?

https://slate.com/human-interest/2014/11/how-cops-respond-to-rape-a-new-study-of-officers-at-one-police-department.html


>That is the agency you call.

Is it, you dumb fuck ?

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/sexual-assault-remains-dramatically-underreported

i didn't read the second.

Haha wtf. How's a woman gonna call the police while her sexual assault is in progress ? And if she miraculously pulls that off, how the police gonna get there before dude finishes the rape and runs off ?

Got any examples of this literally ever happening ?


>i didn't read the second.

Shocker.

that doesn't address the reply. Shit it was also a study of 10 people gtfoh.

The reply was about cops responding to "rapes in progress," which literally never happens. So how else can one respond beyond pointing out that when cops are *actually* tasked with responding to rapes - which is always after the fact - they often don't give a shit ?

The 2nd link would, on some level, address your other horrible point regarding the 1st link's small sample size. There's also dozens of other wider studies and trillions of anecdotes all across the country about their failings, but you won't look it up yourself because ... I dunno ? Easier to just argue blindly ?

Your loved one. Cool bro. Street code to the max.

But at some point, unarmed social workers might be a worthwhile call to make in that same situation.

Apparently you're satisfied with the fact that out of 1,000 rapes, 995 rapists walk free. Status quo baby, everything's running smoothly.

(Inferring, of course. LMK if you have any "reform" ideas that may knock that average down to 990, or even 985 in a few years.)

It doesn’t matter if more rapes are stopped by non police, you still need a public agency.

I’m sure more fires are put out by homeowners than firefighters, should we defund fire departments?

Just moronic arguments.

>It doesn’t matter if more rapes are stopped by non police,
>you still need a public agency.

Right. Probably many agencies, far different from the one we have.


>I’m sure more fires are put out by homeowners than
>firefighters, should we defund fire departments?
>
>Just moronic arguments.

That is not the awesome "gotcha" analogy you think it is, idiot. But adorable try.

And the subject line is worse lol. Like wtf are you even talking about.

>>It doesn’t matter if more rapes are stopped by non
>police,
>>you still need a public agency.
>
>Right. Probably many agencies, far different from the one we
>have.
>
>
>>I’m sure more fires are put out by homeowners than
>>firefighters, should we defund fire departments?
>>
>>Just moronic arguments.
>
>That is not the awesome "gotcha" analogy you think it is,
>idiot. But adorable try.
>
>And the subject line is worse lol. Like wtf are you even
>talking about.

More bad faith arguments. Yet we're the trolls?

Do this team you speak of need tanks and military weaponry to stop a robbery, rape, or murder in progress?

>More bad faith arguments. Yet we're the trolls?
>
>Do this team you speak of need tanks and military weaponry to
>stop a robbery, rape, or murder in progress?

So you are moving the goalposts quote a bit from abolish to demilitarize. Should write that on your sign and save us all a lot of time,

You're just making shit up now to feel good.

To handle EVERYTHING.

The impetus is on you guys to define this new category of responders. Are they armed?

How exactly are they different enough from police to represent an abolition rather than the dreaded “reform”?

If not, then your keep your inferences to yourself until you have. Well, I can't tell you what to do so instead I'll just say that you're in over your head in this discussion if you haven't read up about some of the proposed alternatives and ways to end "policing" (in its current form) to replace it with better systems and structures, that are actually focused on *preventing* crime rather than protecting capital.

You're pretty clearly just blindly defending the institution of policing rather than trying to learn and have an honest discussion about its failures and what can be done, collectively, to attempt to create a more just society. And it ain't fucking "reforms." We've tried that, for many years, and the problem(s) has gotten *worse*. Maybe you're not aware.

Since you’re apparently familiar with the best thinking on the subject:

Who should people in the USA call to report violent crimes in your post police utopia, and are those entities armed?

Good luck out there.

>Good luck out there.

Does the book answer my question?

Why not summarize the answer if so?

I honestly feel like you took an L with this non-response.

>I honestly feel like you took an L with this non-response.

The book is ~300 pages. Too long to "summarize," too short for you to be too lazy to read. There are summaries available with a simple google search, but again a summary can't do justice to ~300 pages of well-thought out and researched material, so I'm not gonna paraphrase or copy/paste it here because you're not arguing in good faith anyway.

If you ever bother to read it (or literally any literature and/or study about the abolitionist movement), let me know and I'll be happy to debate/discuss with you.

You’re worse than RJCC.

Jeezus christ you're worse than ... anyone.

from its inception to today. You know the history right?
The police goes hardest on Black society. Punishes them to the full out extent and is lenient everywhere else. Having the word 'police' not mean anti-Black and for Black justice is like trying to rebrand the Ku Klux Klan into a diversity program. Its history refuses to allow that to happen. So yes, we can replace the word 'police' with something else and classify new authority that is not aligned with capturing/murdering/terrorizing Black people.

who has ever said that social workers should be called in to confront a robbery or murder in process???

NOBODY

....again, you're not engaging in actual arguments and deflecting by saying that we're trolling.

ALSO...when have cops confronted a rape or murder in progress? You seem to be describing some parallel universe where cops immediately jump on the scene and 'save the day'...outside of the movies, this rarely happens.

Nearly all the mass shootings, the shooters are often stopped by civilians....how about the hundreds of cops standing around Uvalde as children were being gunned down? I'd have more faith in a social worker, teacher or anyone of stepping up to help than I would a cop.

just days after the Nichols shooting, LA cops shot and killed a double leg-amputee victim, Anthony Lowe....the cops said they were scared he was going to throw a knife at them.

Cops are the biggest cowards and murderers out there.....we are draining all of our resources from public services to keep funding them.

They protect and serve capital....not people.
The supreme court has even backed this up, police have no obligation to protect citizens, and they don't.

as long as people will keep simping for them, shit aint ever gonna change. Hope those cop's boots taste good, you seem to love licking them.

So you still have police to respond to violent crimes? That’s not abolition.

nowhere have i said police should or do respond to violent crimes.
I've actually said the opposite.

all the cop boot licking may be impacting your ability for rational thought, or to engage in honest conversation.

good luck with that officer.

.

>nowhere have i said police should or do respond to violent
>crimes.
>I've actually said the opposite.
>
>all the cop boot licking may be impacting your ability for
>rational thought, or to engage in honest conversation.
>
>good luck with that officer.
>
>

Must be all this pig boot in my mouth!

How does a seemingly adult person frame that idea in their mind: “Police actually DONT EVEN respond to violent crimes bruh! So it’s no a problem if my proposed solution won’t address this!”

We are seeing the internet just dissolve people’s minds, it’s really something.

... maybe use this time to do some reading on the subject you're debating so undeservedly confidently.

>just days after the Nichols shooting, LA cops shot and killed a double leg-amputee victim, Anthony Lowe....the cops said they were scared he was going to throw a knife at them.

that double amputee allegedly just stabbed someone.

I'm not justifying the police response but just pointing out that that example is a an example of Police responding to violent crimes.

The situation was bad. Cops arrived. And immediately made the situation way more bad.

How is this a defense of police ? Cuz they showed up ? Is the bar that low, for you ? (Kind of a rhetorical question).

>The situation was bad. Cops arrived. And immediately made the
>situation way more bad.
>
>How is this a defense of police ? Cuz they showed up ? Is the
>bar that low, for you ? (Kind of a rhetorical question).

God you are dumb or dishonest.

It was only a defense of police against the claim they don’t respond to violent crimes.

I’m starting to think abolitionists aren’t sending their best and brightest to this defunct board.

Per usual.

1. They didn’t respond
2. The ones who did respond did a bad job
3. The ones who got 9/11 syndrome working in the rubble afterwards were a little late, don’t you think?

Is this your shtick ? Horrible analogies ?

I specifically said that in my post.


My point was in response to someone claiming that police don't respond to violent situations in progress. He then proceeds to point to an example of a police responding to a violent situation.

But all that's been honed in on thus far is the fact that the cops *did* respond to a violent crime .. only to commit one themselves.

Not sure where else you want people to go with that beyond responding in kind.

>Nearly all the mass shootings, the shooters are often stopped
>by civilians....

I hear anecdotal stories of heroes who stepped up and saved the day because they were already on the scene when shit went down but I don't know if that's the norm,nor do I think we should be relying on random civilians to be the ones to take action when you have shooters with high powered weaponry, body armor and a plan to carry out wide scale violence

Usually when I hear stories about mass shooters either they kill themselves to avoid getting captured by police, or shot or arrested after a stand off.

>Usually when I hear stories about mass shooters either they
>kill themselves to avoid getting captured by police, or shot
>or arrested after a stand off.
>
>

per se. The point is that we should be addressing the problem differently than we have been, because obviously what we've been doing hasn't yet worked. It's only gotten worse. The only reason the civilian anecdotes were mentioned was to highlight the fact that throwing more money at police hasn't, at all, solved the problem. And really *couldn't* solve it, functionally.

Problem: too many guns, daily mass shootings. More every year. Cops haven't been able to solve it. Civilians often stop the bleeding.

Proposed solution(s): national gun control measures, resources to address mental health, etc. etc. etc.

Not the solution: throwing more money at police


>>Nearly all the mass shootings, the shooters are often
>stopped
>>by civilians....
>
>I hear anecdotal stories of heroes who stepped up and saved
>the day because they were already on the scene when shit went
>down but I don't know if that's the norm,nor do I think we
>should be relying on random civilians to be the ones to take
>action when you have shooters with high powered weaponry,
>body armor and a plan to carry out wide scale violence
>
>Usually when I hear stories about mass shooters either they
>kill themselves to avoid getting captured by police, or shot
>or arrested after a stand off.

Who is saying throw money at the police or don't do national gun control measures, address mental health etc.

shockvalue, at least, is just responding to the mere mention of "police abolition" (which, on some level, just means replacing the current police state with better systems/starting over - you can even call them "police" if you want !) by saying shit like "BUT THE COPS ARE ALWAYS THERE WHEN RAPES ARE IN PROGRESS WHO WILL I CALL !" and it's like ... what ?!

I’m out.

If anybody figures out who these guys want us to call to report violent crimes after the police get disbanded, inbox.

"Maybe we should reconsider our collective approach to public safety by doing away with the current police system because they keep killing people for no reason and don't keep people safe, and replacing it with other organizations more geared toward *actual* public safety .. here's some books and studies with some ideas for how we can possibly do that (was trying not to fucking have to spell it out for you but: these ideas include WHO YOU MIGHT ALTERNATIVELY BE ABLE TO CALL or rely on when it comes to specific public safety issues)"

You: "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WHO'M I GONNA CALL THEN ?!?!"

Fucking read, idiot.

Books bad...guns good

Teacher unions bad...police unions good

etc etc


I tend to agree with folks that say "abolish/defund" are bad slogans because they get killed politically. Purely as a slogan.


On the other hand, reform as you say doesn't work either. George Floyd happened and they made sure they sent us all back to work so we didn't have time to think/organize/etc anymore.

Then the "good guys" took over...doubled down on sending us all back to work and diverted COVID funds to *check notes* the police.

This was the "good guys"


Anyone who can't admit that we need less police and more case workers, social workers, safety net, etc is a straight up bootlicker in love with their master. Not to mention eliminating qualified immunity, etc.

Even more concerning is how easy it is to become a fucking cop and get another gig as a cop if you get fired.

At this point, anyone signing up to be a cop is a sadistic prick with mental health issues anyway. And those mental health issues are not caught/screened out.

Imagine seeing how terrible shit...seeing all this go down...and saying to yourself "I want in"...the job attracts a certain type.


Imagine how many wannabe cowboys they'd screen out if say...you had to serve as a case worker (gun-less) and serve your community for 12 months before getting to play tough guy. Hell, even 6 months.

And repeat that every few years.


Add more regular mental health screening. Allow them to be liable for shit. Anything goes down the feds investigate.

And in general, just less of these motherfuckers. Less to no traffic stops, let cameras take care of that.


But nothing will ever happen because the police unions are terrible, even blue city mayors bow down to them, the bad guys exploit fear, the good guys are useless, and the country is full of bootlickers.

Its done.

>Even more concerning is how easy it is to become a fucking cop and get another gig as a cop if you get fired.

At this point, anyone signing up to be a cop is a sadistic prick with mental health issues anyway. And those mental health issues are not caught/screened out.

Imagine seeing how terrible shit...seeing all this go down...and saying to yourself "I want in"...the job attracts a certain type.


Imagine how many wannabe cowboys they'd screen out if say...you had to serve as a case worker (gun-less) and serve your community for 12 months before getting to play tough guy. Hell, even 6 months.

And repeat that every few years.


Add more regular mental health screening. Allow them to be liable for shit. Anything goes down the feds investigate.

And in general, just less of these motherfuckers. Less to no traffic stops, let cameras take care of that.

Honestly just those tiny things would weed out a lot of the sorry fucks who end up becoming the worst of the worst cops.

he started serving warrants. Even had his sons graduation party at the fucking police station with a keg.

He married white and swear to God each kid came out whiter than the last to the point I don’t even think that last kid is his. He even jokes about it.

and now all his sons are cops.

and we don’t really like them but we love them as family.

but these dudes are insufferable.

shit is embarrassing.

... and instead, repugs went from ".. OK this one's bad" to "BuT hE wAs On DrUgS !!!!" in under a week, and congress never even pass a stripped down version of the bill that was introduced in his name.

That was one of many "straws that broke the camel's back" for this place. Sandy Hook, Hurricane Katrina, etc. etc. etc.; we've had so many modern opportunities to do the right things in the face of national tragedies and disasters and always do the wrong things.

Very good points.
I share, with you, the exhaustion and disappointment in a system that's supposed to serve and protect all.

And I wonder if it's a feature of white supremacy that I get angrier at black cops committing police brutality against black than when white people do it.

I guess white cops don't surprise me. Seeing those brothers doing that to another brother surprises and angers me more.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

it justifies their baseless fear that crystallizes into heavy-handed, asymmetrical violence when applied to Black citizens vs. white mass shooters and such. "I thought he had a gun" "He lunged at me"

It's an excuse for an operating baseline of unfamiliarity. The talk is always of white cops from the 'burbs that come in to police an 'inner city' that to them is characterized as a 'warzone' by department rhetoric and an anecdotally reinforced awareness.

If the bully is from the same block as the victim, it becomes less excusable in public perception.

You realize the lies told "He tried to take my gun" are not the product of fear but of a history of abuse of authority and lack of accountability.

The brazen violence is not there because of some base hatred of 'the other' but because it has been cultivated and celebrated for decades behind a badge.

this has been going on for years we just have video now