these people weird af.

about too many black and women characters in the sandman...

tries to claim everything and push racist agendas on any big franchise.

Like they bitched and moaned about John Boyega in Star Wars when Billy Dee Williams already did Star Wars 30 years ago. A Black guy wasn't a problem then, why would he be a problem now?

>tries to claim everything and push racist agendas on any big
>franchise.
>
>Like they bitched and moaned about John Boyega in Star Wars
>when Billy Dee Williams already did Star Wars 30 years ago. A
>Black guy wasn't a problem then, why would he be a problem
>now?
>
>

Im sure they lost their minds when a black guy rode a dragon in the last episode

It's great they do that but do it from the beginning. However I do have a problem with them not explaining why they are in prequels but not in the originals story wise. So i'm just supposed to believe they were MORE open to mixing with minorities in the past but for some reason got racist later on? Story wise it is very ridiculous.

House of Dragons showing Asian, Indian and Black people nonchalantly sharing waters with white people during battles was killing me. Or taking advice about birthing emergencies, cmon! They would've have the minorities on the frontline to get burned by dragons or shot with arrows like they did with all of us in modern wars. And they def wouldn't have any of us near a baby let alone have a health opinion. Make TV and film more woke but don't pander to us in the middle of a show or property where it didn't exist before, especially in prequels. Star Wars putting in Finn makes more sense story wise because it happened later in the storyline when people would be more accepting. Representation matters, making it believable in the worlds you write matters JUST as much.

So you want your fantasy racism based in reality racism.

he really wrote all that shit about fantasy

He want that Tarantino fantasy movie with the elves and wizards using racial slurs as they send the Black hobbits to the frontlines.

Until you can explain other than just wanting to do it then it shouldn't be in the story. Pretty simple.

Which plot holes get a pass and which ones make you overreact ?

Here is an hour of issues, are they ok because it's not "diversity" ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaBWs65wnw4

But all plot holes are annoying if never rectified. Visual plot holes especially because it’s always in your face, which is my issue when trying to sneak in diversity in shows that has established world building. Obviously from the get go I rather see more POC’s in this show and not always written with stereotypes but when it is already written in the source material then i don’t want it changed unless it make's sense.

For instance it seems HoD’s retcons the laziness of GoT writing in the last season with this where they hint that spiritual connection or almost twin like connection rider and dragon feel for certain Targaryen's https://youtu.be/FDLrLy0HpLA A plot hole that was “famously” annoying in the series

You want more of, Chewbacca gets the medal 6 movies later because he didn't get it in the first one ? If the world building is based on source material with plot holes, you say stick to the flawed foundation for continuity ?

Even the guy in the link you posted admitted that was a hail mary. You want more of Lucas adding a young Vader next to the old Obi when they do the afterglow ? You really want to go down that slippery slope ?

"Include us, but treat us like shit please"

Argue against more points never made because you dont go to therapy and dont know how to discuss reality vs feelings. Better. Help. Dot. Com.

Its not that serious.

whining about 'wokeism' and 'forced diversity' nshit.

who all act holier than thou and woke but all you do is bicker, fight, talk shit and have weird old ashy nudes posted. Yeah. I know all about it.

Fucking losers still losers after all these years.

wit yo fucking weirdo fantasy racist ass

I’ll wait.

you really hate yourself so much you don’t think your people deserve to be part of some make believe shit?

you date exclusively white don’t you?

This is a story and world already set so yes continuity is important. Explain it.

Stop avoiding it and explain. This that dumb shit right here when peoples opinions are based in nothing but feelings. Either it explain it or shut the fuck up. The cliche “its fantasy” bullshit is dumb, all tv is essentially fantasy. Sorry to burst your fucking bubble but Friends and Martin are not documentaries. Explain it.

you out here like “he can’t be asian or Black” because it ruins a story set in a fantasy world?

You are the only one in your feeling b. You are implying the story is ruined with brown people being introduced. Its racism at its finest. You are mad because your white world has been darkened up a bit, lol

friends and martin aren’t documentaries? lmao.. so they can do wtf they want, just like fantasy.

shut the fuck up is your rebuttal because YOU can’t explain how a Black hobbit or Brown hero in GoT has no impact on a story set in fantasy.

newsflash, fantasy isn’t a documentary either. Dragons flying and orks orking is fine but brown skin ruins the storyline?

fucking weirdo, get our of your feelings. Not surprised at all because Asians love some white folk but gotdamn.. not like this

no one has to explain to you why Black and Brown people exist in fantasy.

I know they fucked up your all white fantasy world but that is a personal problem.

I’m not watching the new Hobbit show yet because I’m not really interested but I seriously doubt a Black Hobbit ruins anything because your personal feelings about Black and Brown people..

your condition has been conditioned b

Fucking loser, take your L and sit down with your feelings ass reasons. Non ass logic to dumb opinions.

Talking about taking L’s while crying about your fantasy world being ruined..

self hate is a helluva drug?

Ancestors shaking their head at your bigotry… “where did we go wrong?”

Keep up the cliches. Might as well light some incense and prepare your poem for spoken word night too.

Immigration?

Race mixing?

You do know that much of this Hobbit/LOTR fantasy is rooted in European medieval history, right?

And do you also recognize that there were brown people present in Europe during that period in history?

There.

That's the explanation.

Also.. it's a made up world. If they want to have brown people here, they can have that. If they want a Black elf, then that's okay, too. Why not? Explain why not. Elves, Hobbits, Dwarves, and Humans are all individual species, right? Within each species, phenotypical variations occur, right?

There's another explanation.

Thanks for keeping up.

Rings of power is a prequel. So without even watching the show that makes sense for a sequel. Not prequel. Thanks for making my argument FOR me. smh

But back to legs to explain HoD.

Are dead in the sequel. So why should they also be in the sequel?

There were only two people with white hair in sequel, but a whole lot in the prequel.

Are you that stupid? i shouldnt have even replied to the stupidity you are subjecting everyone to with this.

Yet nobody can explain why the choice in characters in this already established story/world where its clear this wouldn’t happen in a prequel. All feelings based for you but the math aint mathing. Just say it fulfills your desire for representation despite it not making sense. Either explain it or shut the fuck up.

Lets get the cliche answers based in avoidance of not having an answer where you claim I dont want equal representation despite already saying I do throughout this thread. I want representation when it makes sense, not when its pandering to my feelings. Again, be a fucking grown up and sort out your feelings, stop being weird about it and seek a therapist on how to deal with that shit. Smh fucking armchair activists are always the worst.

The only physical characteristic that matters in this story is the white hair of the Targaryens and they kept that consistent.

Any more made up things you want to say?

his thinking is extremely flawed.

There are Black and Brown people in the original GoT cast but they can’t be in the prequel?

its like white people who only see Black folk as slaves in America and scoff when they hear about the history of Black Kings and Queens in Africa.

Heinz is weird af.. you can tell he he dates exclusively white

But you are projecting like most over compensating ass okayplayers who are married to non whites and are the biggest arm chair activists. Literally a stereotype of majority of yall. Smh. Keep trying to avoid the question tho. Any more subjects and cliche insults based in zero facts on both the show and myself you want to try out? Tap out, you look silly.

The answer is this:

There is nothing in the source material that suggest race, or race relations in those worlds works anything like it does in ours. You're superimposing a non-existent social structure onto fantasy worlds. that's why black and brown people can show up when and wherever.

you think those white people in HotD or RoP are even white? They have no cultural connection to modern day real life white folk, so why would you think the racial dynamics or even the dna would work the same when the science (or magic) doesn't? It's non-nonsensical.
______________________________________________________________________________

"To Each His Reach"

but.....

Fuck aliens.

>It's great they do that but do it from the beginning. However
>I do have a problem with them not explaining why they are in
>prequels but not in the originals story wise. So i'm just
>supposed to believe they were MORE open to mixing with
>minorities in the past but for some reason got racist later
>on? Story wise it is very ridiculous.


That would tie up the loose ends, right?

It seems insincere to shoehorn nonwhite actors into a series that's historically been white and write scripts that dont acknowledge it. I'd rather you just keep us out of it cause clearly you're just trying to fill your diversity quota

It feels like amazon and disney is purposely hyping up how "diverse" and "revolutionary" their visual slop is so they can generate a sense of loyalty from people who really dont give a shit about these IPs and just want to feel "seen"

So they're getting clicks from people who want to hate watch AND people who want to stick to those evil racists. Two birds one stone


I dont think the outrage machine has much juice left. At least I hope not. This is embarrassing on both sides.

lol

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

Diversity yes. Not diversity for the sake of diversity.

The new Mermaid movie looks great, having a black lead is NOT the biggest hurdle for that movie at all. Making an entire movie that is majority CGI swimming look good in live action is their biggest obstacle. It really sucked in Aqua Man. Looks better here but not really going off much footage. The chick playing the lead is fine YTs need to stop freaking out. Hopefully they knock this out of the park, the live action reboots havent had an amazing track record.

for their shitty products.
the writing in MOST of this projects have been routinely terrible

My friend was telling me about this over the weekend. I don't understand how these fucking assholes really exist in the world and think these are normal thoughts to have.

it was put up in a gentrified part of Pittsburgh as part of an art series

white people lost their damn mind.

and this is a prime example why.

White people.. and asians who wish they were white like Heinz, dont want any brown people in their imaginary worlds, lol.

In a perfect world they can have dragons flying and magic fairies with wings but a Black or Brown person is going too damn far?

https://hyperallergic.com/436763/alisha-wormsley-the-last-billboard-pittsburgh-there-are-black-people-in-the-future/

this is a prime example of how racist people can be when they see this text and immediately feel attacked or feel like its controversial

if it said white people they would be like “damn right” but since its Black people its like “damn, they still going to be here in our future utopia? fuuuuuuuck”

which is why Heinz saying WE are in our feelings is ironic. Seeing Black people in fantasy upsets him. Even seeing Asians upsets him and he’s fucking Asian!!! They did a number on him.

And yea, Heinz is big mad up there. I was laughing reading his responses.

dude keeps trying to move past the most important fact.

ITS FANTASY

That’s it.

He keeps demanding we explain it like its reality

with half the corner boys now playing cops.

Marlo and Pooh as police is funny to see

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVgVB3qsySQ

Frink: Yes, over here, n'hey, n'hey. In Episode BF12, you were battling barbarians while riding a winged Appaloosa, yet in the very next scene, my dear, you're clearly atop a winged Arabian! Please to explain it!
Lucy Lawless: Uh, yeah, well, whenever you notice something like that... a wizard did it.
Frink: I see, alright, yes, but in episode AG04—
Lawless: Wizard!



Now changing the ENDING for stupid reasons, E.G. THE WATCHMEN MOVE, I can't stand.

> THE WATCHMEN MOVE

This is was MOVIE.

The Watchman book is great.

The HBO series is great.

Worse still? It took all of five seconds to find that out.

Nevermind the absurdity of being upset that a make believe world full of dragons and wizards all manner of outlandishness could have brown skin people, Tolkien describes them as brown.

those white people wouldn’t listen to an Asian doctor who delivers a shit load of
babies in the fantasy world. No way..

No way could a people have Brown skin and nobility, like we are either slaves or don’t exist.

and pale isnt a fucking color

what a loser.

his problem is he believes Black and Brown folks could never hold positions of power in Game of Thrones because all they would ever be is slaves and peasants.

why wouldn’t a king listen to a doctor who was asian?

There were people of color in power who were burned for being shitty rulers..

but its impossible for a Black man to be part of a culture because we all know everyone stuck to their own in this fantasy world? smh

pale doesn’t equal white skin, pale isn’t a color.

Using Black and Brown actors in a show about fantasy (HotD since you think the word fantasy is an insult) doesn’t take away from the show at all. The only people with issues are those WITH ISSUES with seeing POC as anything besides slaves and whores.

In your own words “this isn’t a documentary”

the whole “how could this be in a prequel” is some sad shit. You used the largest brush you could find to paint all Black and Brown people as a lesser class because its impossible to fathom some of them holding power or titles.

you fucked up when you said they would have us on the front lines “like in modern times” This is a clear case of using “modern racism” for a tv show set in a world that isn’t real.

and lmao at the Star Wars explanation like Billy D wasn’t part of the franchise. I bet you would’ve had an issue with him being added as well since he wasn’t in the first one.

you can except dragons, orks, magic, etc.. but Black people in a
prequel is just too fucking much?

GTFOHWTBSS

From this whole not being able to accept fantasy as fantasy (and not understanding the history of race in general), to that weird ass rant about a facebook page he's clearly mad he didn't get invited to, to the lambasting of okayplayers as if he hasn't been posting here for 20 fucking years...

Fucking yikes.

wtf is that supposed to imply? lol

I’m Black and my wife is Black.. is marrying non white all it takes to be part of the OKP master race?

what really made me wtf is its okay for Finn to be Black in Star Wars because its later in the series? I mean. I guess Billy D’s character was also a clone and the first of his kind.

Fucking Jaba and all types of weird ass aliens are fine but don’t you dare have Black people in prequels because???? because??? How dare Sam Jack be a jedi. Yoda.. fine, but Sam Jack? No fucking way.. lol

as soon as he said woke he showed his ass.

Might as well use their words against them “maybe that Black actor was the best one for the job? Why is he playing the race card, I thought All Lives Matter???” lmao

I didnt say fantasy cant be fantasy stop arguing against points i didnt make

In THAT established world of GoT. Explain it. This is still a simple question that none of you can answer and i am dying at dancing around this. Make it make sense. That is all im simply asking. Not to make it make sense to your feelings, just something simple as making it make sense within this show. LMAO

Again. Betterhelp.com

>House of Dragons showing Asian, Indian and Black people nonchalantly
>sharing waters with white people during battles was killing me. Or
>taking advice about birthing emergencies, cmon!

What in this established world has shown this to be unthinkable? Please give quotes, reference scenes, give passages.

Why do you keep ignoring the Lando point that's been made in reference to what you had to say about Star Wars?

You're not "dying" about anything, you're having such a fit that you can't see the problems you ("don't") have with the new diversity of these shows is... you.

stop reading there, dumbest shit you have said.

and no.. this does not impact the “book” in any way.

Does the story change with a Black character? No
Is the series ruined? No

Nothing is impacted besides YOUR personal feelings.

You have yet to give one good reason besides using modern racism. It’s like saying a Black King couldn’t exist in Africa 2 thousand years ago because of the slave trade.

and again, its Fantasy.. lol

only underscores that it's racism

"I'm all for it, but it needs to be done in such and such a way" IS the racism.

If a particular character or story is created and doesn't work creatively, fine.

But it's literally just "Black and brown people shouldn't be there".

Every last one of us overlooks all manner of inconsistencies and imperfections, things that don't make 100% sense, etc, in the vast majority of movies and television we watch.

There's always an undercurrent of "just go with it" in nearly anything we watch. And certain things stand out, and our brains just can't rock with it- and I doubt this is consistent from film to film, show to show.

I.E, you can rock with something absurd in one movie, that would probably not be an issue for you in another.

So when the lone issue is the skin color of the actors, and in this case, the caveat that it doesn't make sense because they're not as prominent in future episodes, just underscores that the issue really is just the skin color.

Moreover, there's no reason that the shift in racial dynamics can't/won't be explained within the context of the story down the road.

But even if it doesn't, the fact that people are supposedly fine with diversity as long as it's executed in a surgically, contextually precise manner only reinforces the racism at play.

that it pisses you off that black people exist in a world that doesnt exist.

I think it came out either right before or in the immediate wake of all the Gamergate bullshit

So the most online of players bought this game set in a historical fiction rooted in the many imperial nations who made slaves of northern Africans and proceeded to freak the fuck out that anyone at all might be darker than pale as a full moon.

This is honestly one of my favorite blatant but dumb racial freakouts of the past decade, because not only is it hyperbolic but so bland. Despite many obvious examples from real life, or as you smartly point out the totally made up "reality" that this stuff is, it's absolutely unacceptable for non-whites to occupy our daydreamy playgrounds - show me a single Black man in Mordor or King's Landing, asshole!


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

n/m

“Ork Only” watering holes and shit

i.e. the writers of these shows don't work hard enough to bring the characters of color to life and make them believable. What would have helped his case is a post like "*EYE* would have done it like so..."

but I do think there has been some redpillage in his youtube history

I don't think his issue is with black hobbits per se, I think it's that he wants to dictate the rules on how they are introduced into the narrative, which is also problematic

>I don't think his issue is with black hobbits per se, I think
>it's that he wants to dictate the rules on how they are
>introduced into the narrative, which is also problematic


He it's racism. He only offered two choices

No Blacks and Asians at all or oppressed Blacks and Asians.

>House of Dragons showing Asian, Indian and Black people nonchalantly >sharing waters with white people during battles was killing me. Or >taking advice about birthing emergencies, cmon! They would've have the >minorities on the frontline to get burned by dragons or shot with >arrows like they did with all of us in modern wars. And they def >wouldn't have any of us near a baby let alone have a health opinion.

^^^^^That's more then just dictating the rules on how they are introduced into the narrative.

>However I do have a problem with them not explaining why they are in >prequels but not in the originals story wise. So i'm just supposed to >believe they were MORE open to mixing with minorities in the past but >for some reason got racist later on? Story wise it is very ridiculous.


Not explaining "mixing with minorities" in Middle Earth is just

self-deprecation or cynicism ?

Nah

I am trying to think of a reason other than internalized racism why he chose this hill to die on

and out it on a fantasy world he lost all respect.

its like racist who laugh at the suggestion there were wealthy and powerful kingdoms in Africa because you only see Black people as slaves and servants.

Cant remember the season but there were wealthy Black and Brown politicians who were oppressive in a few cities. Reducing brown people to slaves and whores is some sad shit.

and to say it ruins the story or makes it unbelievable IS some jim crow shit.

about Ariel, and more and more PoC being introduced into traditionally white "worlds" and roles

I love it and I love that it makes racists mad, but I find it hard to believe a 'minority' would not celebrate inclusion across the board, in every scene, UNLESS it feels so fake that it's transparent.

TODAY, I sent a picture of a Native Hawaiian, Native Alaskan, and Native American all serving in the House of Representatives for the first time to a chat, and the super BIPOC activist homie just said "moderate dems" lol. I know as a person he's not racist obviously, but sometimes people end up fighting against the same representation they would have celebrated had they not gotten to a very cynical place inside themselves.

is "set" in, is the middle ages... a period that existed before Slavery. The racial arrangement and understandings that he keeps trying to place within this period, did not yet exist!

And then couple that with the fact that we're literally talking about a make-believe world...

It's just....

arguing about how it was problematic

and a lot of people agreed in the comment section until someone pointed out how everyone was using their experience with racism to argue about race in a make believe world

that really is what it comes down to.

racist can’t fathom a world where Black and Brown people aren’t on their knees.

and I keep repeating it because there is no other reason for people to be upset about diversity in middle earth or space or GoT.

Simple questions of continuity to the point where plot holes and continuity don’t matter if it involves race.

Again. Answer how there are Asians, Brown and Black people being treated as EQUALS in a world where they were not previously and we are just supposed to not expect an explanation because seeing people that look like us makes us feel warm inside? Foh. Again, I love to see it. Just explain it when you do it in worlds already created where it didn’t exist (especially in this case of this show being s prequel). Write it into the story. Pretty simple task. So I will ask again, regarding HotD where in the story is it explained? Pretty simple. Answer it or shuttup. Scrap all that “you are a racist” bullshit because you have no answers to the question because that is a cop out, especially with me i am not the one to let that be an your escape answer. Answer the fucking question or take a knee on this you loser. I’ll wait. Provide the video or episode where it was explained in this show. They have already fixed plot holes in the previous show which I provided video for in this thread. Your turn. Answer it.

what YOU can’t do is tell us how it ruins a show.

and still trying to tell people they are in their feelings when YOU are upset at diversity in HOD is fucking classic.. lol

All your answers are “why not? I like it!” Lol explain in the show HOW the math be mathing. Again last time I am asking. Until the show explains it, it’s a large odd plot hole that easily could have been addressed.

Not true. You present "math ain't mathing" as some kind of fool-proof model to be deconstructed. It ain't.

You say "the world building established..." without ever saying what you think the world building has established. It hasn't established what you seem to think it has. But since you refuse to explain your own math, you can't accept our refutations.

>
>Again. Answer how there are Asians, Brown and Black people
>being treated as EQUALS in a world where they were not
>previously and we are just supposed to not expect an
>explanation because seeing people that look like us makes us
>feel warm inside?

People have answered this. What YOU can't answer is this:

What makes you think asians, brown and black people were treated any differently, or in an inferior manner? Cause that's not in the source material either.
______________________________________________________________________________

"To Each His Reach"

but.....

Fuck aliens.

I was looking for an article that supported this point that I saw, but I couldn't find it.

But I did find this article:
https://www.newsweek.com/when-diversity-casting-hurts-plot-it-hurts-black-actors-viewers-opinion-1736903

This kinda sounds like Heinz' point

"Haphazard diversity casting ends up objectifying Black actors, exposing them to needless backlash and hostility from confused and frustrated fans and disconnecting their race from their acting and characters.

But the clumsiness of bad diversity casting also exposes something dark about the audiences for these prestige TV dramas. In the cast of House of the Dragon, the message is clear: Your average woke, Hollywood liberal can still root for a ruling class portrayed as malignant despots, so long as they aren't all white.

It's a key feature of pop-wokeness: making it seem counter-cultural to side with the elite. Shonda Rhimes' hit Netflix show Bridgerton is another famous and recent example that features a diverse, rainbow cast of fawning aristocrats, despite being set in the Georgian period, the height of the trans-Atlantic slave trade. These desperate attempts to foster diversity blur the lines between aspirational fantasy and historical anachronism, which makes it hard to decipher how much of the impact of a story is lost when modern preoccupations with diversity and inclusion collide with unpleasant historical, mythological and symbolic truths."

the comment section is entertaining


fire breathing dragons.. sure
Black man marrying into a family? Now that’s a problem!!

Racist clowns and cowards.

they just don’t want to see Black and Brown people ruining their fantasy world.

and seeing anyone Black and Brown in authority is an issue for them.

peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

The answer is simple, you are grafting our history on a fantasy world. You are treating our ideas about race, which BTW are relatively new in the grand scheme of history, as immutable facts of life that would exist anywhere (including fantasy worlds) there were people with different skin colors. You are assuming that racism only marches in one direction, from bad to better, when that isn't even the history of this country and or very limited racial history.

For example you say this: "So i'm just supposed to believe they were MORE open to mixing with minorities in the past but for some reason got racist later on? Story wise it is very ridiculous."

Why is that so hard to believe when that's the history of our country. We go from periods of relative racial progress to severe backlash. It was better to be a Black Person in this country in 1620 than 1670 when the first black people who arrived here were treated more like indentured Servants before LATER being treated like Chattel slaves because of changes in law.

It was better to be a black person in this country during Reconstruction than it was during the Red Summer.

Like read a book before spouting some dumb shit like something would never happen when there is precedent for it to happen in our own history.

But besides that very specific point, you are displaying this assumption that skin color always equates to race and differences in race will always means there will be racism AND if there is Racism it will always a hierarchy with White skinned people on top and dark skinned people on the bottom.


THe fact is race as a concept really didn't take hold until like the 18th century and it was mainly developed and grew as a concept in support of colonization and slavery. So with just a little bit of historical knowledge about race its very easy to contemplate that in a world that DIDN'T have slavery and colonization along racial lines, wouldn't have the racial categories and hierarchy that you saw in our history. What we are tripping about is folks like you have just enough imagination to imagine a world with dragons, but not enough imagination to imagine a world without the racial categorizations and hierarchy of our world history.

whether you will admit it or see it, You are a victim of racism as well.




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

>The answer is simple, you are grafting our history on a
>fantasy world. You are treating our ideas about race, which
>BTW are relatively new in the grand scheme of history, as
>immutable facts of life that would exist anywhere (including
>fantasy worlds) there were people with different skin colors.
> You are assuming that racism only marches in one direction,
>from bad to better, when that isn't even the history of this
>country and or very limited racial history.

The same people also forget that the "white" characters in this show, aren't actually white in the sense that we know them. They have very little in common with a modern day American white person, and the idea of "whiteness" and otherness is different in these fantasy worlds.

An elf is gonna look at a black dwarf funny because he is a dwarf. Not because he is black.

Heinz is superimposing our racial dynamics into a fantasy world where
a. Those dynamics don't exist.
b. The science (and magic) doesn't work the same, so why would race dynamics. The biodiversity alone of having orcs, and dragons and hobbits and elves pretty much negates brown skin being so our of the ordinary.


______________________________________________________________________________

"To Each His Reach"

but.....

Fuck aliens.

It is very likely that species (Elf, Dwarf, Orc) would trump skin color (which isn't necessarily race because Race is a non-scientific concept made up in the last 500 years of our 50,000 year history).

But I honestly don't even like going the route of arguing the logic in fantasy worlds. There is magic so there is no reason to be bound to any rules of race logic on fantasy worlds.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

and even tho HE brought up modern racism as his barometer he nows wants everyone (or
maybe just me) to explain why it shouldn’t matter.

and even after using his argument against him he is stuck on “no way they could be Brown or Black” because the book said pale skin


Pale isnt even a color. If you look sick people who know you could say “you look pale, you sick? Just weird to make that argument based on modern racism and then tell everyone to explain how it can happen in a fantasy world.

The real question is why CANT it work and if the only answer is because “white folks would be on Jim Crow” in that timeline it doesn’t hold up at all.

because.. dragons and shit

They could reasonably, realistically explain the changes in this very story.

But even if they don't, it's of no consequence, because, as you said, dragons.

And if we were to parse out the logical inconsistencies, there would be a lot more than "Black people being treated as equals and taking advise from an Asian doctor!". The vast majority of those would be overlooked, and people are just rolling with them, as we do with most movies and shows.

Guarantee there is a lot more that goes against the source material or whatever but RACISTS have focused on this.


And again, its a show with fucking dragons.


Maybe dude thinks its historical fiction? Even then, it doesn't add up.


Some of these dudes will show you who they over the strangest things...

The is the dumbest non answer shit i ever heard.

So like you said because theres dragons, they can throw out internal logic and write machine guns into the story...because you know. Dragons.

smh.

>The is the dumbest non answer shit i ever heard.

No it isn't, because that's not what I said.

>So like you said because theres dragons, they can throw out
>internal logic and write machine guns into the story...because
>you know. Dragons.

Well, no, I didn't say that either. That's nowhere close to what I said. This is cherry picking at it's worst, and it's not a conclusion that any honest interlocutor would arrive at, even if they disagreed with me.

So the options are clear:

You're possibly a low-functioning idiot. You can't read for shit, your lack of comprehension skills are concerning, and you form conclusions the way a twelve year old going through puberty does. Not a single critical thought is involved in your processing of information.

If you're not a complete moron, you're just the snowiest, flakiest of all snowflakes, melting down over the smallest opinions that have triggered your racist tendencies.

Because you're not just having a disagreement. You're demonstrably angry, cantankerous, moody, and attacking everyone in sight, all because... Black and brown people exist in a fictional fantasy world.

There's not much of a middle ground between "holy shit, you're disturbingly stupid" and "wow, you're so deeply racist and spiteful and angry over this that you can't even make a show of holding it in"

You're engaging in a way that's neither reasonable, civil, or understandable.

for a show about fucking dragons.


That should have stopped the entire thread.


Fucking dragons...and dude wants you to explain black people.


Dragons.

Thats not what I said at all. Either address what I actually said or don't. I mentioned more than one race that I had issue with that was randomly showing up in this show. Stop creating your own narrative. I don't care about your own issues with race. That is a different conversation. If you are going to join in on THIS conversation then join it but leave your own fucking issues at home.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-SEB-82711

This is an aside from the Heinz nonsense, and a bit of nerding out.

But even a fantasy world will have an internal logic. I.e, if someone showed up in LOTR with machine guns, fighter jets and stealth bombers, that would be a serious WTF? and a valid problem with the existing internal logic of that world.

In general I agree that the landscape lends itself to a lot of "go with it", just pointing out that an internal logic still exists.

Far as Heinz and his HOTD bit, it's nonsense for the reasons you, myself, and others have explained.

that these shows are bound by.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

this Heinz nonsense

https://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-SEB-82711

"Well, Westeros is the fantasy analogue of the British Isles in its world, so it is a long long way from the Asia analogue. There weren't a lot of Asians in Yorkish England either."

Yeah. From the creators own mouth. Most of you are just mad im cussing at you and don't want to agree but CLEARLY agree in other threads thinking I won't see that shit. So you care about the internal logic of the show but hate that I'm being an asshole about it because I don't care to hear the nonsense of feelings you guys call replies.

Again. Betterhelp.com or let's just talk about the show and i'll take it down a notch LOL

taking medical advice?

-Who is "clearly agreeing in other threads"?

-Who said I "care about the internal logic of the show"?

I said even fantasy has an internal logic. It's an objective thought, independent of any specific discussion about any specific show.

Further, example I cited of a break in internal logic that would seriously disrupt things, was adding modern weaponry.

Your example is... brown people who aren't slaves.

Also, we're talking about the show, not the book.

Further? I'm not creating a WSJ account to read a point you very likely cherry picked, and still wouldn't be a reasonable counter to the mountain of reasons people have already cited for why you're wrong.

For all the "betterhelp" bullshit you keep spouting, the only one in here who is off the rails is *you*. Nobody needs a mental health examination because they aren't as angry as you are that Black and brown people exist in a fictional fantasy show with dragons and sorceresses.

Let's put aside that it's a cheap, deplorable tact to say to people over a discussion like this.

You're crazy extra with absolutely everyone, in every last exchange. You're acting just like handle in literally every political discussion. But he's at least turning up over things he passionately believes in that actually have a significant impact the world around us.

You're in here flipping out because.... black and brown people are appearing in a fictional fantasy tv show.

If anyone in this thread clearly needs betterhelp, it's you.

which is indeed a very weird hill to die on.

Also because its perfectly plausible to have Black, Brown and Asian characters in positions of power. For example House Valaryon which the wealthy black characters are from, are extinct in the later GOT series and hail from Valerya as is house Targaryen. That is why they both rock the platinum do's. In the original series (GOT) most Black/Brown/Asian people resided in the Free cities which is the general direction of the ruins of old Valerya. Also in that time people from that area mixed with Westeros and were in Old Town (where the Maestres are from, like the maester in HOTD) as well as King's Landing.

Furthermore George RR Martin was supposedly more involved with HOTD than GOT, so he would also approve of this casting and changes that would have bene made.

So yeah decolonize yourself if you have a problem with this

but you know Heinz doesn’t really give a shit about these details..

which is why his original argument was built on our experience with race.

GoT already showed Black and Brown people in positions of power.

But his response is still “EXPLAIN IT, OKPLAYERY ANSWERS, OMG, FEELINGS”

just sayin even from that 'logic' it don't make sense

Those are major details worth showing in the show.

> GoT already showed Black and Brown people in positions of power.

GoT is after HotD and we are specifically talking about Westeros PRIOR to GoT.

Speaking of GR Martin on being asked about Asians (which I also had issue with randomly seeing so many Asians in Westeros without any explation) from the WSJ : https://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-SEB-82711

"Well, Westeros is the fantasy analogue of the British Isles in its world, so it is a long long way from the Asia analogue. There weren't a lot of Asians in Yorkish England either."

..... so yeah. who else wants to try again with their own made up answers that apparently whole more weight than the creator of the show which you both just tried to use as proof and now look stupid.

There were like 3 Asian people in and your ass is here talking about "omg there were so many fucking Asians it was distracting!"

And way to completey dodge everything else that was just dropped on your stupid ass.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-SEB-82711

GR Martin explaining asians.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/house-dragon-star-steve-toussaint-083504388.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAIcYIRlLEQMoesulOHiohVX2wWiQnCGjI4Cj2knrn8eqMG0hTK2I46J_OFo7clvC4wlb6oK23Z9_Hwk5kWcN715FGHk0rfbjfrRpm5brgJ-SsmuegIr05oT560Ys6Z6R1WKbgzOQGZBAl76p80khV4aQXCCkEOYi4qW-UsjszS8d

Talking about lord corlys velaryon written as a white man and that family as white. Now I don't have an issue with this house being black as this is the FIRST time we see anyone from House of Velaryon and Steve Toussiant is great in this role. But being black, brown or asian in Westeros in a prequel should at least be mentioned in this show as Westeros is white and pasty as hell in this world. As the older article above mentions this from the horses mouth.

So to say its not ludicrous to stick to the internal logic of this show as everyone in this thread keeps mentioning JUST because theres dragons is ridiculous. Now these things are NOT reasons to hate the show at all, all I simply said is please explain it. And i hope the show does one day. To say its not distracting is obtuse. The show has a lot to do with race and class as much as it does with dragons lol

And you're completely dodging what you said about how black, white, and brown soldiers "non-nonchalantly sharing water" and taking advice from a doctor has anything to do with Westeros being largely white. What you were clearly referencing is your perceived view of racial animosity or a racial hierarchy (which has been explained to you ad nauseam at this point) in this world that doesn't exist. And your links don't give any credence that idea either. George says there aren't many Asians in the ASOIAF version of Westeros. There aren't many in this new more diverse vision of that either.

Nice try to subtly shift your goal posts there.

And further more, if you are that fucking concerned with it being a faithful adaptations, why don't you complain about other changes from the books? Why don't you care about Targaryans not having violet eyes in the show? Why doesn't it matter that Corlys was never a member of Viserys' small council in the books? Very interesting which are the changes that are so distracting to you and which ones you don't give a shit about.

And grafted Our World Racial Politics and Hierarchy on a fictional world.

If you stuck to I wish they would explain why there is this biodiversity in a prequel and not in the proper series, your embedded racial hangups might not be exposed like they were.

Again, Racism works best when the victims don't see it and take it for granted.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

I explained that this could be explained within the show

I also explained that, while fantasy has internal logic, nearly every show has some measure of logical inconsistency, and that the vast majority of people just roll with the vast majority of those.

You've chosen to take significant issue with Black and brown people existing in a prequel.

It's been explained to you that Black and brown people DO exist in the GOT era world, and have been mentioned as living largely in the free cities- meaning they aren't just slaves, even in GOT. That we don't see them prominently featured in these roles does not mean that they do not exist.

Moreover, there are other houses in the GOT novels that are a part of are barely, or not even, mentioned in the show.

Is the existence of house Hightower in HOTD a huge problem, since they're not a part of the GOT show?

It has also been explained that Black and brown people held significant positions of prominence- even as former slaves- with Daenrys, to the point where the Unsullied and Dothraki were able to hold what was essentially White Jesus hostage, forcing the all-white powers of Westeros to yield t their demand of some punishment for White Jesus.

We also saw wealthy Black and brown people in the GOT series.
We also saw Davos' friend, Salladhor Saan, the pirate, in GOT.

That they were not heavily featured or focused on, does not mean they do not exist.

So there is PLENTY of internal logic within this world that shows that Black & brown people, who are not slaves or servants, existing in good or prominent positions within GOT.

You are factually and objectively wrong for the reasons listed above, and not a single one of those facts is about dragons.


I also explained that this need for minority representation/inclusion to be executed with perfection, under just the right circumstances, is in fact racist, especially given, as I said, the amount of logical inconsistencies that occur in most shows, and which most people overlook.

This is a comprehensive, detailed explanation, and there is no wiggle room here. This IS over and done with, regardless of how much discussion continues after my entry here.

Your issue is 100% dead. It's non-existent.
A figment of your imagination and internal racism.

I count like 25 thorough, thoughtful explanations in this post. Only one not explaining anything beyond his internalized racism is heinz. What a joke.

goes along with the fantasy world can do this but it's a surprise if it does blank.

created by Matt Walsh and Ben Shapiro

A lot of, "woke" this, "facts and logic" that. Throw in spins on "facts over feelings" and some variation on "Debate me, coward!" for good measure and you've filled in your BINGO card.

Here's Walsh on the new Little Mermaid.
https://twitter.com/JasonSCampbell/status/1570156771016065025?s=20&t=VPpLDmWSuHuso-IwmmEiiQ

Same kind of bullshit

http://art-------school.com/

https://ibb.co/k4m6n8C

Whitewashing

https://youtu.be/XebG4TO_xss

when they showed the natives on Aldhani, their leader looked like Bryan Cranston followed by some readheads, then a bunch of minorities sprinkled in. I got the sense that they didn't want to commit either way, they didn't want to show a bunch of dark people getting fucked (again), and they didn't want all white people getting screwed over especially when the empire stationed on the planet is racially mixed.

and that's the thing. because the show is pretty diverse all around, it 's consistent that the natives would be, as race/color doesn't seem to be a factor in this universe.
It's just that when they were doing their tribal dances, they just looked more like some weird religious cult, or a bunch of drum circle hippies, than proud natives getting fucked by the empire lol

all that said, Andor is incredible

down to thinking it was Walter White. Random but a wan I went to HS with bumped into his in New Orleans and posted a photo. He is all grizzly and shit while taping season 2 of Your Honor. So I really thought it was dude.

but man..

those red headed girls from Tibet had me rolling.

we done "representation matters!!!!" our way right back into 80s token roles