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Forum nameGeneral Discussion
Topic subjectyou're advocating for a lack of nuance.
Topic URLhttp://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13450579&mesg_id=13451127
13451127, you're advocating for a lack of nuance.
Posted by Vex_id, Wed Jan-05-22 12:13 PM
and who are the 'you and yours' and 'they' that you're referring to?

One of the most unproductive things we can do when adding to this conversation is start to draw lines and denigrate "the other" - contributing yet to another culture war -- especially when it's not necessary to do so.

Yes there are some flagrant anti-vaxxers pushing disinformation that need to be called out. But not all people who refuse a vaccination fit neatly into these hyperbolic caricatures that is being drummed up.

Ultimately it comes down to strategy and principle. I point to a nation like Japan as an exemplary model on how to approach the subject.

~80% of Japan is fully vaccinated, and the government has strongly encouraged all citizens to get vaccinated.

However - the Japanese government has made it clear that getting vaccinated is a personal choice – and warns the public not to "discriminate" against those who choose not to:

"Although we encourage all citizens to receive the Covid-19 vaccination, it is not compulsory or mandatory," a notice on the Ministry of Health website reads.

"Vaccination will be given only with the consent of the person to be vaccinated after the information provided. Please get vaccinated of your own decision, understanding both the effectiveness in preventing infectious diseases and the risk of side effects."

"Vaccines will never be administered without the recipient's consent," it says.

"We urge the public never to coerce vaccinations at the workplace or upon others around them, and never to treat those who have not received the vaccine in a discriminatory manner."

Source: https://japan.kantei.go.jp/ongoingtopics/vaccine.html

Incidentally, Japan is a world leader in maintaining low Covid case-counts and mitigating spread - and they are doing it by persuading its citizens with science, compassion, and respect -- not coercion and vilifying "the other". It is human nature (particularly in a country like the U.S.) to want to resist something that is mandated to you on a compulsory basis. It's not sound strategy to do this in a country that has enshrined individual rights into its constitutional framework. It backfires; it achieves less vaccinated protection.

vaccinated (and even
>>boosted) hosts are still getting infected and transmitting
>>virus at significant rates.

>>....but then you turn around and drop this nonsense.<<

How is this 'nonsense'? That's just a factual statement -- which requires context like this:

<<Yes, vaccinated people contract and transmit the virus- but the likelihood and severity are significantly reduced.>>

That's literally what I said.

Look: If we can't have a nuanced and factual discussion then what's the point? We don't have to pretend that breakthrough infections aren't happening at relatively high rates (they are) - nor do we have to overly defend Pfizer and Moderna and act like the vaccines are perfectly calibrated for Omicron (they aren't). We also don't have to reflexively defend the CDC when it fucks up (which it's done multiple times over the course of the pandemic).

That doesn't mean that the vaccines aren't important (they are) at preventing severe outcomes and death.

I'm always perplexed at how critics of the vaccines singularly focus on severe adverse events from vaccination (often by citing non-scrutinized VAERS reporting) - but never acknowledge the damage done by the virus itself that is obviously significantly more destructive and deadly. But it's also perplexing as to how staunch defenders of all things vaccine find it difficult to acknowledge that the vaccines haven't been the god-send they were purported to be, and never want to emphasize the need for informed consent and raise the bar for safety profiles of vaccines (particularly from Big Pharma which has consistently demonstrated its neglect for public health).

My point is: This is a complicated issue that becomes even more complicated when we immediately draw lines in the sand and adopt "sides" to where we just argue all day with no common ground; no nuance.

The vaccines work. They are important tools - albeit imperfect tools. More focus needs to be on treatments. We won't boost our way out of this (particularly when too much of the world is still without their first doses). Informed consent is important. Respecting each other and having good will for each other is perhaps more important than ever in a public health crisis.

We can hold multiple ideas in our minds at once, can't we?