Poll question: Do you think people should be fired for being unvaccinated?

Poll result (52 votes) Yes (34 votes) Vote No (18 votes) Vote

Until the population can get vaccinated.

Especially if you work in healthcare or work with the public, but really any jobs that you interact with other people.

Started a new job two weeks ago, and last week I learned that the woman who trained me and I sat directly next to for a week is proudly unvaccinated and was bragging about how some organization offered her $500 to get vaccinated and she refused.

When I found out about her I was sick to my fucking stomach and angry as fuck. Luckily I'm a paranoid bastard and I always keep my mask on, so I was masked the entire time I was with her, but still it fucking sucks to be surrounded by people like her and not know that they are ignorant disease spreading animals. I hate these assholes.

If they can work from home, or in some way rigidly sectioned off away from others, no.

In general, I'm fatigued and have very little compassion for most people refusing to get vaccinated. My general sentiment is, fuck em.

I'm also staunchly pro-labor. So this is a bit of a conundrum for me.

To that end, I'd rather see a genuine effort to accommodate people to work from home, since I think those who refuse to vaxx should stay the fuck home anyways.

Pro labor!!

Or have different rules for different jobs - like CEOs can work from the yacht just fine, but the janitor has to be vaxxed, boosters, masked and DISTANT. Don't want that guy too close anyways, right????????

My criteria;
1) People allergic to the vaccine ingredients - and certified allergic by a non-quack doctor (not sure how to implement that) should be able to be tested daily and remain masked for time being if job does not put other very vulnerable people at risk. If it puts others at risk, say you are an aide in a nursing home, then termination WITH unemployment.

2) People who are actively sick. they can stay home (without pay) until illness is over, then they can be vaxxed. Possibly make these people eligible for paid sick leave, or disability pay.


Not covered under my plan: Religious exemptions. If your religion eschews the vaccine you can cloister yourself and devote more time to god.

Actually, scratch that. There's no point in even trying to reason with you.

Either engage in good faith like a reasonable human being or shut the fuck up.

Yes, you obtuse fucking moron, I totally think the grocery store clerk should work from home. Totally. Because it's totally possible.

Do you hear yourself?

You're a fucking buffoon. Just a goddamned caricature.

Feel free to screenshot and cry to the mods like always, you dumb piece of shit. Either have an actual conversation or KIM.

>Either engage in good faith like a reasonable human being or
>shut the fuck up.

You suggested that something is reasonable when it clearly targets a certain class of workers. What makes being a cashier who doesn't want to get vaccinated more reasonable than being the IT worker for the store??

>Yes, you obtuse fucking moron, I totally think the grocery
>store clerk should work from home. Totally. Because it's
>totally possible.

Again, your came up with a "reasonable accommodation" scenario that HAPPENS to target service and low wage workers disproportionally.


>Do you hear yourself?
>
>You're a fucking buffoon. Just a goddamned caricature.

Fingers point RIGHT BACK AT YOU. You came up with an ABSURD response and then get mad when it is pointed out to you.


>Feel free to screenshot and cry to the mods like always, you
>dumb piece of shit. Either have an actual conversation or
>KIM.

I will - you are clearly breaking the rules. How is reporting that 'unreasonable?"

And next time honestly title your post.
Your dishonest title: "Not if reasonable accommodations can be made""
Honest title: "Only if low wage and service workers are targeted."

I get it, your pro labor so you want to increase the risk for labor. let the cashier who is vaccinated work next to the one who isn't - that seems FAIR TO BOTH, right?? Absurd.

Other than a valid medical reason tell me why there is ANY "reasonable" reason to refuse vaccination?? (Bonus points - if you don't answer like a libertarian you get a prize.)

You're spouting off a lot of shit I never said, nor implied, or that you have completely backward.

But you're too busy being you to see that. I'd be happy to clarify that to someone who wasn't such an insufferable goddamned prick about it, but again, you're you. So, Nah. I'm just going to talk to you in the manner in which you deserve.

Psst: your prior "im gunna screenshot this and send it to the mods!" tantrums went fucking nowhere. So will this.

You respond like a fucking jackass, you get the fucking response that comes with it.

Stop replying like a fucking cunt and you won't be treated like one.

You imagine there is such a thing as "reasonable accommodation" while you are actually targeting certain classes of workers.

Reasonable *is* one policy for *ALL WORKERS*, with a very narrow carve out for legitimate medical reasons.

There is nothing reasonable about your post.

And you certainly are not being reasonable here.

Why again do you think it's REASONABLE to object to the vaccine in any case, other than very rare legitimate medical reasons??

>Why again do you think it's REASONABLE to object to the
>vaccine in any case, other than very rare legitimate medical
>reasons??

Show me where I said this.

Quote me.
Link it up.
Not just in this post, but from any post.
Just one.

Show me where I've said anything even close to it being reasonable to object to the vaccine, and I'll gladly retract everything I've said.

Or, you could just admit you jumped the gun, badly misinterpreted what I said, and reacted to your errant perceptions and not anything I actually said.

Trust me, that would be much easier.

>You suggested that something is reasonable when it clearly
>targets a certain class of workers. What makes being a cashier
>who doesn't want to get vaccinated more reasonable than being
>the IT worker for the store??

Who the fuck said it was reasonable to not want to get vaccinated?

I sure as fuck didn't. And nothing I said can be reasonably construed to mean that either.

Once again, this is just you being you.

Nothing I said "targets" certain workers either, you fucking jackass.

If you don't want to vaccinate, and work in a position that can accommodate you in some way to continue working, guess what? You keep your job.

If you don't want to vaccinate, and work in a position that can't accommodate you, tough luck. Get the fucking shot and you'll get to keep your job.

I don't really give two fucks about people who refuse to vaccinate, so I don't really give half a fuck whether or their choice not to vaccinate hurts them in some way.

But because I'm pro labor, this is a tough one for me. And I'd rather find a way to accommodate people as much as possible.

And NO, you dumb motherfucker, "accommodate" doesn't mean, "make the vaccinated cashier work right next to the vaccinated cashier".

But because you're you, you're too busy being a cunt that you skip all the other reasonable interpretations of what the fuck I said, and jump to something that in no way resembles anything I said.

And when I say I'm pro labor?

I walk the fucking walk, motherfucker, to the point where people in my workplace come to me when they have workplace issues for guidance on how to best navigate those issues, despite me not being a shop steward, because they've seen the results I get by having a motherfucking backbone. I've helped lead the charge to unionize, I have, on several occasions, taken multiple complaints up the chain and gotten several issues resolved for other people, I've taken my free time to help people develop interview skills, all that shit.

I've lead meetings on workplace issues and continued the fight even when everyone else dropped out of fear. In fact... When I did that shit, I eventually quit on the job, and still got a meeting with the Manpower regional manager (or whatever the fuck, someone with power to fix that shit)...because I had already laid the foundation before I quit. And you know what happened? They fixed, at least temporarily, those problems, and my former coworkers had a better workplace because of it.

So no, you sniveling halfwit, I don't just spout a bunch of sentiments behind my keyboard. I actually walk that shit.

My suggestion is just a very general spitball, not a thoroughly vetted policy about to be put into place. There would certainly be holes to address, things to evaluate to determine the best possible way to accommodate as many people as possible.

>Again, your came up with a "reasonable accommodation" scenario
>that HAPPENS to target service and low wage workers
>disproportionally.

What the fuck does that mean?

You mean, low wage workers who don't want to get vaxxed will be disproportionately effected? BEcause that's what I'm talking about.

This is about people who refuse vaccinations. Not those who can't, and not those who are vaccinated.

Yes, if you run the register and refuse to get vaccinated, well, that sucks.


>>Feel free to screenshot and cry to the mods like always, you

>And next time honestly title your post.
>Your dishonest title: "Not if reasonable accommodations can be
>made""
>Honest title: "Only if low wage and service workers are
>targeted."

Except that's not what I said at all.

>I get it, your pro labor so you want to increase the risk for
>labor. let the cashier who is vaccinated work next to the one
>who isn't - that seems FAIR TO BOTH, right?? Absurd.

I didn't say that either, but again, you're you, too busy on some weird crusade to think clearly, so here we are.

>Other than a valid medical reason tell me why there is ANY
>"reasonable" reason to refuse vaccination?? (Bonus points - if
>you don't answer like a libertarian you get a prize.)

Yeah, I never said that. Nothing I said can be reasonably construed to mean this. Congrats. You've been absolutely wrong about absolutely everything here.

Show me ONE motherfucking thing I said that even remotely leads to the conclusion that I think it's reasonable to refuse the covid vaccine.

ONE.

Just one.

You can't.

Because you're fucking deranged, and went off on your imagination.

What I got from your post, whether you intended it or not, is that a low-er skilled worker, say a cashier who worked with the public would see more of an impact from this vs. a higher skilled remote worker, like someone in the accounting department -- who for the same "reasons" as he cashier did not want to get the vaccine.

Doesn't seem fair at all.

If the cashier has to get it, so does the remote worker. Fair is fair.

The cashier who CAN'T get the vaccine for a valid medical reason should have reasonable accommodations made for them if possible - but that may not be nearly as likely as for the remote accountant. Doesn't seem fair either, but maybe there's a way to mitigate that with disability or unemployment.

But, again, and difference in the rules based on job roles does not sound reasonable at all to me, and in fact actually works to discriminate against the lower skilled workers.

'Reasonable accommodations' for any objections to vaccination is discriminatory for different classes of workers (outside of narrow legitimate medical reasons.)

Don't do an about-face and try talking to me with sincere discourse without acknowledging your prior shitshow.

You need to acknowledge the fuckery of your prior responses first, then we can have an actual discussion.

I'm absolutely open to seeing where my OP has holes. I know there are holes and points of objection worth discussing, but I'm damn sure not going to pretend that other fuckshit didn't just happen.

If you CAN get vaxxed, you should get it or lose your gig. Absolutely.

It helps protect other workers. One's decision to not get vaxxed shouldn't put responsible workers at risk.


And, obviously, "work from home" is a huge privilege not everyone has. And those who are privileged shouldn't get extra benefits.


If you CANT get it for some medical reason, there are protections for that and it makes sense.


I see no conflict between pro-vax and pro-labor.


Bad analogy but workers have to show up clothed. To say they can't come buck ass naked doesn't mean you aren't anti-worker choice, it just means there are rules required to participate in society- more specifically the workforce.

"Individual liberty" has been twisted over the decades to mean "I should be allowed to be a selfish, reckless asshole" and that isn't the jam.


Get vaxxed to protect yourself, your fam, society, your customers, and yes...your fellow workers.

Here's my post:

"or in some way rigidly sectioned off away from others, no.

In general, I'm fatigued and have very little compassion for most people refusing to get vaccinated. My general sentiment is, fuck em.

I'm also staunchly pro-labor. So this is a bit of a conundrum for me.

To that end, I'd rather see a genuine effort to accommodate people to work from home, since I think those who refuse to vaxx should stay the fuck home anyways."

I'm having a hard time reconciling your reply to my post, so if you can clarify the things I've said that lead to your response, i'd like to clear that up.

>It helps protect other workers. One's decision to not get
>vaxxed shouldn't put responsible workers at risk.

"reasonable accomodation" means, accommodate them in a way that doesn't put others at risk.

It absolutely doesn't mean that the unvaccinated worker should have to work with the vaccinated one.

>And, obviously, "work from home" is a huge privilege not
>everyone has. And those who are privileged shouldn't get
>extra benefits.

That's one solution. That doesn't mean that it will work for everyone.

But I also don't think it should just be, "fire everyone across the board". I think we should find a way to keep people employed.

Moreover, to be clear, this is just a spitball. Certainly, there would be holes to address, greater thought put into how that actually works.

But anyone with a job that can be accommodated, should be, IMO. In fact, I think that goes across the board. EVERYONE who can work from home, SHOULD have that option, with or without COVID.

I'm in favor of other changes too- for day work weeks, for example.

I think joblessness is too big a problem to throw out the proverbial baby with the bathwater, so this is by NO means a lifeline to antivaxx people, or antivaxx sentiments. I don't quite know how to solve that, and don't know that I could come up with a way.

But I do think we should keep as many people working as we can.

And I absolutely see a potential problem with not taking a hard line with these people. I generally don't like placating shit like that in any way.

This is why I mentioned that I am pro labor- because my thoughts on antivax people (again: FUCK EM is my stance)clashes with my pro-labor views on this issue.

And yes, that would come with a cost of workers who do jobs that cannot be reasonably accommodated.

>I see no conflict between pro-vax and pro-labor.

I'm not saying there is. Again, my general stance on antivaxx people is "fuck em".

>"Individual liberty" has been twisted over the decades to mean
>"I should be allowed to be a selfish, reckless asshole" and
>that isn't the jam.

I mean, I didn't take an "individual liberty" stance here. I'm firmly in the "antivaxxers can kick rocks" camp. But I don't think firing everyone who is is a viable across the board solution.

I think that would create significant economic problems.

>Get vaxxed to protect yourself, your fam, society, your
>customers, and yes...your fellow workers.

I am, as is my wife. I don't see anything in my OP that suggests that i'm ok with antivax people or even antivax sentiments.

if there is enough lead time and a reasonable accommodations made for those that can't.

If someone can't, I say, turnover every last rock to find a means of accommodating them. After all, those who can't are a big reason why vaccinations are so important.

If someone won't?

I still say try, but I've got no empathy for them if they can't be accommodated.

We do business with the government as a Federal vendor/contractor, which means that ALL of our employees, and our own contractors and subcontractors have to be fully vaccinated by January 4th. Even if they work from home permanently, and never go into one of our offices or a client's office.

I'm in management, and we thought we'd have a decent amount of attrition when this was announced, but so far that hasn't been the case at all. I'm definitely in favor of it, because mandates like this will accelerate the end of the pandemic as an overarching issue.

Biden's soft mandate (via OSHA) mandates that all businesses with at least 100 employees require staff to be vaccinated *or* face weekly tests and mask requirements.

To me, that's sufficient to ensuring a safe workplace in most settings (outside of health-care) while still giving the individual the power to exercise autonomy.

From a legal perspective, it's unlikely that any hard mandate would pass constitutional muster. Just this past Friday an appeals court (5th circuit) in New Orleans affirmed a hold on the Biden mandate, arguing that it's overly broad and a "one-size fits all" mandate that doesn't account for individual circumstance or differences in workplace/worker. And it's likely the Supreme Court would go even further to strike down the mandate.

I think the public health approach to encouraging vaccination has missed an opportunity to be more open/honest and persuasive when discussing vaccination, which ultimately I think would go further to achieve higher vaccination rates than a mandated approach that a significant % of the population just doesn't trust.


-->

from the mandate on companies with employees over 100. The mandate for companies with government contracts potentially holds more weight since in theory the Federal government could make vendor decisions based on compliance. That's the reason why at least my company is complying. Well, one of the reasons. I think my company (and others) wanted to do a mandate on their own but are happy to "blame" Biden's mandate for it.

>The
>mandate for companies with government contracts potentially
>holds more weight since in theory the Federal government could
>make vendor decisions based on compliance. That's the reason
>why at least my company is complying.

I think a lot of companies are also complying for practical reasons. It becomes an administrative burden (not to mention a significant cost) to constantly administer/track testing on a weekly basis.

<I think my company (and others) wanted to do a
>mandate on their own but are happy to "blame" Biden's mandate
>for it.

Has the mandate been mostly embraced at your company? Has anyone been fired for non-compliance? Always curious how this plays out in practice.


-->

>Has the mandate been mostly embraced at your company? Has
>anyone been fired for non-compliance? Always curious how this
>plays out in practice.

We are having a 3rd party accounting company handle all of the reporting and verification of vaccination status (along with religious exemption requests, which are strict.) I know anecdotally that all 20+ of my direct employees have already been vaccinated, just because they’ve shared that with me themselves. But the company is planning on a certain amount of attrition because of it and is ready to start backfilling if necessary. That being said, I work in an industry in which our competitors will also be under the same Federal Contractor mandate, so they’d have to really change careers if they want out.

Please pop in occasionally and keep us updated on your turn to full Libertarian. Please. We have bets to settle on when it happens.


Yeah there could have been a more persuasive campaign, but hell I would think 700k dead Americans would be pretty got damn persuasive.


Its just that Amerikkkans are selfish fucking idiots who have perverted the idea of...to quote your very large and not at all privileged brain.... "the individual power to exercise autonomy"

Could have educated them more sure...but we are talking about idiots believing Facebook over their own Dr and watching Tulsi on Fox News defending Rittenhouse and thinking CRT is a thing.

A lot of these people are not serious people.


The real mistake was celebrating the vaccine and telling everyone masks off without enough data to say the vaxxed can't get/spread the virus.

But that has nothing to do with your bullshit "individual power to exercise autonomy"

We all had to get vaxxed to go to fucking Kindergarten, bro.

Never been a libertarian - and certainly never been a huge Rogan fan - but if that's the internet fantasy world you want to live in, do you.

There's this narrative that it's only MAGAs who are refusing the vaccine, but Black and Brown people still lag behind whites in vaccination rates - so vaccine mandates and firing for non-compliance is going to disproportionately affect groups who are already over-burdened by societal/economic conditions.

I'm fully vaccinated - so your empty, loud dumbass assumptions miss the mark. But just because I'm vaccinated doesn't mean I think people should be forced to get the jab or be fired/excised from their livelihood and basic public services. That's a wildly problematic policy that doesn't achieve what you think it achieves.

Also - you may not think bodily autonomy means much - but it's the cornerstone principle that secured reproductive rights for women - which is why it's hilarious to see Texan republicans crying about bodily autonomy re: vaccines while simultaneously legislating to violate a woman's bodily integrity and control what she does with her body.


-->

The mandate is still in place for health care workers in certain settings.

>From a legal perspective, it's unlikely that any hard mandate
>would pass constitutional muster. Just this past Friday an
>appeals court (5th circuit) in New Orleans affirmed a hold on
>the Biden mandate, arguing that it's overly broad and a
>"one-size fits all" mandate that doesn't account for
>individual circumstance or differences in workplace/worker.
>And it's likely the Supreme Court would go even further to
>strike down the mandate.




-->

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

because its generally the kind of cops i want quitting. its seems most of them aren't even as much anti-vax as much as anti anyone ever telling them what to do.

that said, it also seems to be more bitching than actually quitting.

overall i think it should be mandatory for anyone working with the public. as you tamp down from that i'm not exactly sure. Like if they want to jump through hoops with masks and frequent testing, then so be it, and it should be on their dime.

is that Covid is now the leading cause of death for police officers.

All this talk about protecting 'blue lives' yet no recognition that Covid is the single most deadliest threat to officers.

--

i keep thinking of the poster here who said his pops was a firefighter and that they were so against seatbelt laws when they first dropped that *they* stopped wearing seatbelts, despite knowing firsthand more than anyone the value of wearing them and danger of not wearing them.

because I was using a seatbelt analogy the other day with an anti-vaxx friend of mine who keeps repeating ridiculous logic re: vaccines. His claim is that vaccines are killing people and injuring people to the degree that they are unsafe, yet makes zero acknowledgement of Covid being dangerous.

Of course some people will unfortunately get injured (and even die) after taking the vaccine. When you're administering literally billions of vaccines, some people (thousands even) are going to have adverse events ranging from the negligible/mild to the severe/life-threatening. But the risks from the vaccine are obviously miniscule in comparison to the risk Covid poses - and there's a disturbing lack of proportionate risk analysis.

It's sort of like saying, "I don't wear a seatbelt because some people die from wearing them!" while ignoring the far more obvious threat: death from car crashes while not wearing a seatbelt. Sure, some people do die in car accidents and the cause is strangulation from a seat-belt or some other freak accident, but the logic people are using is insane to deny that people die at exponentially higher rates from not wearing a seat-belt than they do from the extraordinarily exceptional case where the seat-belt caused injury/death.




-->

and people wanting to not wear them because they would be trapped in their car was definitely a common thing to hear back then. i remember it in my own household. but obv just a different era in media.

also worse since unlike a highly contagious virus, my not wearing a seatbelt doesn't really affect anyone except me (and he firefighters who have to dig me out of a windshield, which makes the earlier post so much weirder)

the 80s when seatbelt laws were in place there were common arguments from anti-seatbelt people that there were deaths involving seatbelts because people were stuck in cars and couldn’t get out when they exploded. As you mentioned - WAY more likely to die from not wearing a seatbelt on an accident vs. the extremely rare chance that a seatbelt does harm.

Somehow the seatbelts became completely normalized with people forgetting that click-it or ticket laws were a hot button issue. And with seatbelts there isn’t even the added factor of harm being done to others like there is with vaccinations and masks preventing illness not just with yourself but with others.

>because its generally the kind of cops i want quitting. its
>seems most of them aren't even as much anti-vax as much as
>anti anyone ever telling them what to do.

BOOM! This shit right here. Chances are, this camp includes a high percentage of the types that will kick a compliant person in the face, or finds ways to escalate a situation into something more severe for the citizen. The list goes on, but I'm betting the encompasses the lions share of the Tier-1 assholes.

>overall I think it should be mandatory for anyone working with
>the public. As you tamp down from that i'm not exactly sure.

>Like if they want to jump through hoops with masks and
>frequent testing, then so be it, and it should be on their
>dime.

I'm not sure how I feel about having to get frequent tests. It's something, but I don't trust it. People already find fake cards and whatnot, fake test results are probably floating around too.

Too much of that deals with the honor system.

>>because its generally the kind of cops i want quitting. its
>>seems most of them aren't even as much anti-vax as much as
>>anti anyone ever telling them what to do.
>
>BOOM! This shit right here. Chances are, this camp includes a
>high percentage of the types that will kick a compliant person
>in the face, or finds ways to escalate a situation into
>something more severe for the citizen. The list goes on, but
>I'm betting the encompasses the lions share of the Tier-1
>assholes.
>

YupYup

>I'm not sure how I feel about having to get frequent tests.
>It's something, but I don't trust it. People already find fake
>cards and whatnot, fake test results are probably floating
>around too.
>
>Too much of that deals with the honor system.

I'm kinda fascinated by the lengths people will go to fake it vs getting a 2 sec shot. and while there are people who have bought into anti-vaxx propagada, and are weary, I'm pretty sure for the majority of people its more of a 'merica nobody tells me what to do thing. With what we saw for over a year with mask tantrums, it's pretty obvious this would happen.

-We've been vaccinated to attend schools so the concept is not new

-Anyone working in healthcare or in a civil servant job...definitively. I don't understand how people who chose careers to help and protect people refuse to do something that helps and protects people.

-I felt this way even more before kids could get vaccinated. Yes, data says kids aren't affected as much but kids still die. There's a case right now of a 10yr old dying from exposure over a negligent teacher's actions.

-Anything that helps curb variants. It's like people won't be happy until there's a 20% mortality rate and we end up like the movie "Contagion". When 1 out of every 5 people are dying, we'll be begging to come back to this question.

-You're required to wear clothes, not harass anyone, not fight, be there on time, meet deadlines, not be insubordinate, adhere to company policies and practices when you work for an employer or they could fire you (hell, at will states means they could fire you because you wore the wrong color if they see fit). None of the things I listed protect other people from dying and won't disrupt business/operations more than employees or customers falling ill or getting sick. So if you're willing to jump through those hoops for $, jumping through this one should be a breeze.

So I don't see it as getting fired, I see it as choosing to quit for lack of compliance with a company policy.

Then they tried citing case law to argue its unlawful. Oh you want to play lawyer?!?!

*cracks knuckles*



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Let me respond. Per the EEOC, employers are well within their rights to ask employees about their vaccination status, regardless of the OSHA rule, and may require employees to provide documentation or other confirmation of COVID-19 vaccination. Since the status of being vaccinated for COVID-19, or not, is not a protected class/category, it is therefore not “discriminatory” to ask.

That said, pursuant to EEOC guidance, information about an employee’s COVID-19 vaccination is a confidential medical information, and in compliance with applicable law, we will maintain the confidentiality of any and all records submitted in response to our request regarding vaccination status.

While the new OSHA rule regarding mandatory vaccine policies has been stayed by the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals (and it is not clear if that stay applies nationwide or only in the Fifth Circuit), several lawsuits are pending and the matter has just been consolidated in the Sixth Circuit for further litigation. While the rule may ultimately be upheld or thrown out, we need to begin to take steps to comply in case it is upheld.

We understand your concern, but please know that our request is legal and consistent with the practice of many other companies in our industry.

Thanks and let me know if you have more questions.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Wouldn't asking about medical info such as vaccine status/history fall under "genetic information discrimination?" Seems like based on the definition they post it can, but not sure what the legal precedents or reading is on this...

Per the EEOC -

Under Title II of GINA, it is illegal to discriminate against employees or applicants because of genetic information.

...

Genetic information includes information about an individual's genetic tests and the genetic tests of an individual's family members, as well as information about the manifestation of a disease or disorder in an individual's family members (i.e. family medical history). Family medical history is included in the definition of genetic information because it is often used to determine whether someone has an increased risk of getting a disease, disorder, or condition in the future.

This clause is meant to prevent companies from discriminating against people that might increase their benefits spend due to something pre-existing.

Vaccine refusal is not pre-existing or related to genetics and therefore does not qualify under this clause. Now what IS protected is discrimination based on a medical condition which prevents someone from getting vaccinated. Which most companies are not doing.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

besides standard talk about liberty and medical privacy dude hit us with as we focus on DEI as a highest concern, this flies in the face of it.

Taking everything not to call him up and let him know.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

???

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Meaning a I hope we don’t see a variant that the vaccines no longer work against. Misinformation is dangerous.

I.e. immuno compromised or too old to get the vaccine.

We've seen more people die from this virus than damn near everything else in a similar time span. If you aren't vaccinated by now you're putting my life at risk so I hate you.

I've had people tell me they dont get sick and refuse the vaccine.

A dude told me vaccines are for pussies.

A mfer traveled from a covid hot zone to here and went around coughing on everybody except me cause I glared at him ready to throw hands.

Fire their asses.

Every company has a policy regardless if you agree with it or not. THEY choose to not follow it which they want the freedom of choice on the vaccine to protect themselves then they also have to have to let that company have the freedom of their own policies in place to protect themselves. If you don't want to follow their policy then you are forfeiting your position to someone who is willing to follow that company's policy. You don't get to pick and choose when you feel "freedoms" are allowed when you get the shitty end of the stick. Foh with that entitlement shit.

>Every company has a policy regardless if you agree with it or
>not. THEY choose to not follow it which they want the freedom
>of choice on the vaccine to protect themselves then they also
>have to have to let that company have the freedom of their own
>policies in place to protect themselves. If you don't want to
>follow their policy then you are forfeiting your position to
>someone who is willing to follow that company's policy. You
>don't get to pick and choose when you feel "freedoms" are
>allowed when you get the shitty end of the stick. Foh with
>that entitlement shit.

I dont think it should be mandated. but i took the jab. glad i did. im hearing of folks getting covid two and three times and still refusing to get vaxed. at my job we wear masks whether we are vaxed or not. i personally know a lady who got the jab and shortly after had problems with her back. it got worse and she eventually couldnt walk. come to find out the vaccine caused an attack on her spine. She got antibiotics and was fine. she probably should have gone to the doc right away instead of waiting so long but still, you never know how the vaccine will effect you or your unborn kids. so i understand the hesitation. i am glad i got mine tho. i voted no.

Do you think a construction worker would let a dude keep working if he thought being forced to wear a helmet was infringing on his personal rights? Fuck no. They'd say "so long, go find a job where you don't need to wear a helmet." He'd say "but people can get killed by falling debris even if they wear a helmet!" Doesn't fucking matter. They'd shove a pink slip in your hand.

If you drive a truck, and you choose to go the wrong way down a one-way alley because you think one-way sign infringe on your personal rights? You won't be driving a truck for long.

Like... there are certain safety protocols that become widely accepted. A lot of people didn't like fucking seatbelts when they were introduced either, and then everyone just started wearing them. (Or they don't, and they'll get ticketed or die. Fair enough.) Safety protocols are for the greater good, they protect you, they protect the company, they protect the ability for society to continue to function.

If you choose not to get the vaccine, you're choosing not to have a job that requires a vaccine. It's exceptionally uncomplicated.

Damn right.

Wrap it up.

blood.

You can see a safety helmet and don't have to simply trust that it's made of a certain material. You can test it yourself before you try it on. You can also take it off or decide never to wear either again if you don't think they work for you.

There also aren't decades of safety helmet and seatbelt apartheid against Black American people that would cause us to be skeptical of them.

now wondering… what are the jobs for the unvaccinated? farmers?

I see mention of how truck drivers need to follow safety protocols
but other than that it seems like an isolated job

I think about seatbelts, and public transportation is the way I get around
and there’s no seatbelts but you have to wear a mask

I see these actors like dude on the show 911 leaving the show over
mandates and I am triplevaxxed working from home on a basic salary

I guess of all the ways to die this virus is not it for me though some
really think the vaccine will kill them…

in fact statistics are showing countries and counties that are most vaccinated have the highest outbreaks.

Vaccine doesn't stop you from getting or spreading it.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

and the get there fast too.

Pretty much every major global health service acknowledges the current "vaccines" don't stop transmission.
But Americans are addicted to punishing people to feel better about themselves.
It's fuckin insane

and if possible, eliminate risk to a virus. No one ever claimed these particular vaccines stopped spread or infection. It's prudent to understand how vaccines work to make an informed decision here.

Flu vaccines don't stop infection (they actually infect you WITH the flu) and they don't stop spread. They minimize severe sickness and decrease the likelihood of infection.

LOTS of vaccines work this way. Including this one. Not sure how people came to the conclusion that it was supposed to completely stop spread and infection.

>in fact statistics are showing countries and counties that
>are most vaccinated have the highest outbreaks.

This is likely because they aren't following masking and social distancing protocols. Until the pandemic is downgraded, we should keep those things in place as much as possible. But, I would challenge the severe sickness and death stats in these counties and countries aren't as high as those counties and countries with lower vaccine rates. If you wouldn't mind, provide these most vaccinated countries and counties you've found which have the highest outbreaks.

>Vaccine doesn't stop you from getting or spreading it.

Funny how you say this and point to other stats but won't point to stats that say

1) Vaccines have been shown to reduce severe COVID illness/hospitalization vs unvaccinated people
2) Vaccinated people are FAR less likely to die due to COVID than unvaccinated people.
3) Vaccinated people are far less likely to contract or spread the virus than unvaccinated people (even if they can still contract and spread it).


This is like saying "an inhaler doesn't stop asthma or prevent asthma attacks so it's useless and shouldn't be prescribed".

>Not sure
>how people came to the conclusion that it was supposed to
>completely stop spread and infection.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

>in fact statistics are showing countries and counties that
>are most vaccinated have the highest outbreaks.


-->

The vaccine provides protection from infection...as do most vaccines I would ASSume

is it 100%...of course not...but it does provide protection from infection.

...

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

Above - you stated:

"in fact statistics are showing countries and counties that are most vaccinated have the highest outbreaks."

I asked which stats/countries you're referring to - can you reference those statistics so we can take a look?

"Vaccine doesn't stop you from getting or spreading it."

Quite true - particularly with Omicron. But most people know/understand this (although we were oversold on vaccine efficacy as it pertains to transmission, for sure).

However, implying that the vaccines don't work simply because you can still get and transmit Covid ignores the primary utility of these vaccines: to mitigate severity and death.

-->

But they do reduce the chances of severe illness if someone does end up getting COVID. That's clear with how the hospitalization has become more weakly correlated with the infection rate over time.

And, realistically, we're all eventually going to get it... multiple times the rest of our lives.

That's a luxury that we have today that most of 700k + that have already died didn't have.

This is a HEALTHCARE crisis, in the sense that no healthcare system can handle something this contagious killing 2% of it's victims and seriously harming another 15% in a short period of time

Despite all the lockdowns and 60% of the population being vaccinated, our ER's are still incredibly strained so it's unimaginably how much worse we'd be right now if omicron came out without a vaccine.

If you want to say something controversial, show how the vaccines are making the pandemic worse OR how we'd have been better off without them at all.

Nope no proof seatbelts stop you from dying in a car crash.

Nope no proof condoms stop you from getting an STD.

Nope no proof birth control stops you from getting pregnant.

Nobody has proven those statements wrong.

Type of peabrained, uncritical, surface level dogg shit spoken by complete idiots who we should all be pointing and laughing at constantly.

citing the appeals court halt referenced in post #11.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-vaccine-mandate-osha-suspending-enforcement/

-->

I’m so tired of hearing it being “your right” or “even the vaccinated still can get”

cool. go live of the land…

You don't have to get vaccinated, but if you aren't, you can't come to the office for any reason, and if the company or your department has a get-together, you can't come.

My teammate had been claiming "health issues" the whole pandemic, but the threat of missing prepaid food & liquor changed that tune.

>My teammate had been claiming "health issues" the whole
>pandemic, but the threat of missing prepaid food & liquor
>changed that tune.