Personally I thought EP1 was kinda weak. It just seemed like a commercial for black folks at Stanford.

The robbery scene was funny but other than that it was a big yawn and felt like a wasted episode to me. It looks like Molly cuts her hair in episode 2.

The music in the show has always been a draw, but the beginning of the episode seemed to only be about showcasing songs. It was unnecessary AF.

I did like Kelly calling them out on how she's just a joke for the show. That was an interesting choice.

And I thought the robbery was really funny...
But I didn't like their reaction to the robbery. You just had a gun in your face, lost your purses, money, watch, shoes... and you just laugh it off? I don't think so.

Kinda confused. Did Lawrence not move to San Fran?

>And I thought the robbery was really funny...
>But I didn't like their reaction to the robbery. You just had
>a gun in your face, lost your purses, money, watch, shoes...
>and you just laugh it off? I don't think so.

>And I thought the robbery was really funny...
>But I didn't like their reaction to the robbery. You just had
>a gun in your face, lost your purses, money, watch, shoes...
>and you just laugh it off? I don't think so.

>But I didn't like their reaction to the robbery. You just had
>a gun in your face, lost your purses, money, watch, shoes...
>and you just laugh it off? I don't think so.

also, the absurdity of how their homegirl set them up

it really is the best part of the show

but upon examination so much of it didn't make sense.

I am however glad Molly and Issa are over their drama, I look forward to seeing how all this shakes out.

I'm trying to keep in mind the fact that this is the last season in a pretty successful show that has resulted in a lot of talented black folks getting put on.

We should be expecting a victory lap, NOT thrilling run to the finish line.

https://twitter.com/djrtistic/status/1452493576231796736?s=27

Petty af.

was it 2 years?

I know.. covid got me all fucked up.

Anyway.. yeah, that robbery was hilarious. I didn’t get the Kelly death tribute joke but I was half paying attention.

feels like salt bae was making a steak and while plating it decided to throw an ice cream cone on top of it all.

Stanford might have been mentioned previously, but it was never really rolled into the storylines of past seasons.

Also - in my limited exposure to people of the world, I've known some black Stanford folks, so I was surprised they were all alumni because they don't fit my mold of what I've seen before.

it aint that serious

but I agree on the limited college backstory. Not sure it was mentioned at all. I cant recall but again.. not a big deal

Derek and Tiffany in college and I believe it was mentioned in another episode that Molly and Tiffany where sorors in the episode that Jared said he didn't go to college

and didnt want to blow the budget with a trip to Howard or Hampton

Stanford seemed mad random

>and didnt want to blow the budget with a trip to Howard or
>Hampton
>
>Stanford seemed mad random

not really Issa is a Stanford alum IRL, she wanted to showcase her school

makes sense to do it to showcase her school irl

I personally wrote it off as "random for the show, but not random for her"

The way she comes off in real life reminds me of the vibe of Stanford folks

again - I say this as a person with limited exposure to all things in life.

I don't see that happening.

It would also seem like the weight of not having a career and her being a Stanford graduating would have been something over her head from season 1.

Her being a stanford grad seems to have been tacked on during this last season and not something they had envisioned from the start of the show.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

So we jumping forward a whole ass year? I hope this is leading SOMEWHERE....

>So we jumping forward a whole ass year? I hope this is
>leading SOMEWHERE....

its leading to the end

Didn't move anything forward.
And the time skip? wtf. why?

>So we jumping forward a whole ass year? I hope this is
>leading SOMEWHERE....

I thought that was weird too, its like they wanted to get past Molly's haircut and her and Issa being "back back" without actually covering it on the show, we went from them barely speaking in episode 1 to sleepovers in episode 2 lol

its like they spent all of season 4 tearing that relationship down and they got robbed together so its like, they're good now

I can't say they didn't look REAL cozy in bed.

I was like..

yeah, once Issa fucks up with Nathan she is going to give Molly a shot

and sho nuff..

>I was like..
>
>yeah, once Issa fucks up with Nathan she is going to give
>Molly a shot
>
>and sho nuff..

Not even "They shot it a few years ago and just used it now," but more like when they were first planning season 4, they sketched it out that it would end after the college reunion, then got 10 episodes of material otherwise, and just decided to retool it as the Season 5 opener.

That way, the season would have ended with Issa and Molly slowly working things out, Issa definitively breaking things off with Lawrence, etc. Then by the next season, it feels less weird that Molly has a new haircut and they're having sleep overs, and Issa doing big things.

I assumed she would start season 5 that way but then she came out in EP1 with the long hair then bam, EP2 its a year later and Molly has short hair and everybody has evolved and its only discussed on the Wine Down after the show lol

>Not even "They shot it a few years ago and just used it now,"
>but more like when they were first planning season 4, they
>sketched it out that it would end after the college reunion,
>then got 10 episodes of material otherwise, and just decided
>to retool it as the Season 5 opener.
>
>That way, the season would have ended with Issa and Molly
>slowly working things out, Issa definitively breaking things
>off with Lawrence, etc. Then by the next season, it feels less
>weird that Molly has a new haircut and they're having sleep
>overs, and Issa doing big things.

That shit was funny.

this tired stereotype that all the people who are still single post (insert random age here) is dumb. What makes Molly so great? Honestly, We've seen for seasons her toxicity in relationships, but she gets to stand in judgement of this dude, why?

and she is tall and attractive

but the show has pretty much told us why she isn’t a treat catch..

hell, same with Issa.

which is why they will hook up once its all said and done.

The episode did show several instances of her reflecting on her past mistakes in the dating realm

to Condola and Lawrence?

not sure why you think Issa’s first love having a baby with another woman and the fall put from it isn’t worthy of 30 minutes.. lol.

so to have an entire episode without either of them was weird

And is third on the masthead. And in terms of episode appearances.

There are 2 clear co-stars on the show besides Issa. He's one of the two.

and then last season was the Condela friend storyline right?

and Lawrence and Issa were hooking up at the end of season 3.

I think you wanted it to be about Molly and Issa but Lawrence is a legit story line tied to Issa’s happiness or lack of it

character out of the show so that Issa could have other love interests. There have been multiple episodes almost entire seasons without Lawrence I don't there had ever been an episode without Issa and Molly


>and then last season was the Condela friend storyline right?
>
>
>and Lawrence and Issa were hooking up at the end of season 3.
>
>
>I think you wanted it to be about Molly and Issa but Lawrence
>is a legit story line tied to Issa’s happiness or lack of
>it

I hope condola and Lawrence work it out.

... Lawrence moving back to LA to be more present for his kid, and as a result rekindling w/Issa. Fan service.

*************************************

Fuck aliens

-Warriorpoet415

#2dopebrothersandastackofwax

https://www.instagram.com/bobgeorge87

https://www.instagram.com/thirtythree.three/

why Issa ultimately decided to leave, but I hope her and Lawrence don't get back together at this point

But yeah, I loved this episode. Hope both characters grow from it in a way that's beneficial for the baby

real emotional depth on this one. It was a really painful episode -- and I ain't never even been in a situation remotely similar.

Derek is probably the smartest guy on the show

we quickly deaded that shit and agreed than any disagreement would be civil in front of the
kids.

I felt for both tho… being a single mother is ridiculous. Of course she hates Lawrence

but also, Lawrence trying to co-parent isn’t wrong and I HATE that “give me my baby” bullshit mothers throw at the father. You decided to keep the baby.. its also his baby. Don’t get upset because the baby didn’t keep yall together.

>we quickly deaded that shit and agreed than any disagreement
>would be civil in front of the
>kids.
>
>I felt for both tho… being a single mother is ridiculous. Of
>course she hates Lawrence
>
>but also, Lawrence trying to co-parent isn’t wrong and I
>HATE that “give me my baby” bullshit mothers throw at the
>father. You decided to keep the baby.. its also his baby.
>Don’t get upset because the baby didn’t keep yall
>together.

its my understanding after she told Lawrence she was pregnant he dipped out to SF and told her to "keep him posted" he wasn't around for any of the pre-natal stuff but after the baby is born he wants to show up and be daddy of the year at least every other weekend lol

while women need support.. if you aren’t in a relationship its kind of hard to be there when yall arent together.

but once the baby is born its go time..

of course she is going to say all the things you want to hear to make you believe she is good doing this stuff on her own before the baby arrives.

Which is why I’m glad I never had to deal with anything like that. That resentment builds up and while she is saying he hasn’t been there for the baby… she really means he hasn’t been there for HER and the baby.

At some point I thought they would have to start dealing with issues like marriage and kids and they came through in the final season.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

in life. Tiffany was the married one and it was intimated that things weren't always rosy despite outside appearances. Molly was excelling in her career but struggling in her personal life. Issa was struggling in both areas. Kelly was Kelly lol.

I feel like it would be unrealistic for them to all get married and have kids at the same time because it doesn't always work that way with friends in real life. I have friends that got married and started their families right out of high school and some that waited until they were almost 40 and everything in between. For those that waited people see them with babies and small children and some folks are like "is that your grandchild?" "No this is my child." lol

>At some point I thought they would have to start dealing with
>issues like marriage and kids and they came through in the
>final season.

>
>I feel like it would be unrealistic for them to all get
>married and have kids at the same time because it doesn't
>always work that way with friends in real life. I have friends
>that got married and started their families right out of high
>school and some that waited until they were almost 40 and
>everything in between. For those that waited people see them
>with babies and small children and some folks are like "is
>that your grandchild?" "No this is my child." lol
>


With circles of women who are all around the same age (say, from college or high school etc) it's not uncommon for a majority to settle down within the same 5-7 year stretch.

There's prob a bit more variation with circles of men since the lack of a 'biological clock' (or not being socialized to feel one) likely allows for more staggering.

That said, times are changing... some men do want to settle by a certain age, it's becoming more acceptable for women to abstain from marriage and/or childbearing if they prefer, and advances in reproductive care and technology allow ppl to plan when and how they reproduce as well. So in the long run you may end up correct, lol. I wouldn't call it unrealistic at the moment tho.

where I grew up I had a real tight knit Black community and with 2 older sisters who each had a group of friends, friends my age and friends who were 2 to 3 years younger.. they all had similar paths.

1 or 2 go hard at school/career
1 gets married
1 or 2 are in and out of shitty relationships
1 who has no clue and is stuck in wtf mode.. lol.

these are all people who went to JR and HS together.

small sample size tho… but about 20 to 25 women.

I guess how I should've worded it is "of the women" in different circles who marry and/or enter motherhood, most seem to settle (with first spouse) within the same ~5-7y window if they're around the same age.

I hear what you guys are saying about our observations not necessarily being representative, however, and fair point. I guess for me "the window" (for lack of a better term) is seared in my mind bc there's absolutely no mistaking the flurry of wedding invites, gifts, baby announcements, gifts, bridesmaid expenses, etc during that window and the return to (a new) normal after it all dies down. lol

and also, you should probably remember it's TV. This is the story of a friend group of 20 people compressed into four or five because that's how you make things interesting.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

Was just trying to say that I personally wouldn't consider multiple youngish women from the same age- and friend-group in a show marrying within the same time window an unrealistic depiction.

And ya, I still think the timing, circumstances, and societal expectations/stigma surrounding marriage and childrearing are gendered, even in this day and age; it's prob a lot harder to demonstrate empirically that it isn't.

>>
>>I feel like it would be unrealistic for them to all get
>>married and have kids at the same time because it doesn't
>>always work that way with friends in real life. I have
>friends
>>that got married and started their families right out of
>high
>>school and some that waited until they were almost 40 and
>>everything in between. For those that waited people see them
>>with babies and small children and some folks are like "is
>>that your grandchild?" "No this is my child." lol
>>
>
>
>With circles of women who are all around the same age (say,
>from college or high school etc) it's not uncommon for a
>majority to settle down within the same 5-7 year stretch.
>
>There's prob a bit more variation with circles of men since
>the lack of a 'biological clock' (or not being socialized to
>feel one) likely allows for more staggering.
>
>That said, times are changing... some men do want to settle by
>a certain age, it's becoming more acceptable for women to
>abstain from marriage and/or childbearing if they prefer, and
>advances in reproductive care and technology allow ppl to plan
>when and how they reproduce as well. So in the long run you
>may end up correct, lol. I wouldn't call it unrealistic at the
>moment tho.

I feel like there's still a lot of variation because lot of people that got married young are not married now.

And I've noticed a lot of single professional women approaching 40 have given up waiting on marriage to have children.

>And I've noticed a lot of single professional women
>approaching 40 have given up waiting on marriage to have
>children.

I emphasized it when responding to legs, my bad. I kind of feel like age/timing of remarriage(s) is a different beast and shouldn't be conflated.

But ya, we agree on your last point here bc I mentioned how advancements in reproductive care and technology provide more options these days. The only problem I have with it tho is there's still such a long way to go in terms of the pricing, insurance coverage, and marketing.

For example, during my last check-in with a fertility specialist, the cost to freeze eggs was about $10-15k and IVF cycles about $20-25k (*each*), and I was lucky to have really good insurance at that time that at least covered all the actual fertility testing they do beforehand. This was 2018. I also know a couple who spent well in excess of 100k on (unsuccessful) IVF cycles trying to conceive before throwing in the towel (on both having children and their marriage). And to even get to the stage of testing, price breakdowns, or trying cycle-after-cycle can be a hassle for some bc these services are, ironically, overwhelmingly marketed to partnered people.

So for us to speak of folks just lackadaisically being able to hold off and have kids whenever and/or without a partner, to the point that it could drastically shape marriage rates, is a bit of a disservice to the people for whom such a choice is inaccessible imho. It's very expensive and some clinics may or may not go to certain lengths for an unpartnered woman. They make the most money off couples who are desperate to procreate.

LOL

Very good. Felt like a super real conflict. They did a good job of presenting both sides and sure people felt pretty strongly both ways about it.

My wife and I saw it very differently. Surprisingly, she was very sympathetic to Lawrence and I was more sympathetic to Condolences.

She appreciated the brother really trying and I think personally as a dad I wouldn't let anything get in the way of my relationship with my kid and would have figured out I need to move back to LA to be present. I would even make a go at trying to make a relationship work for the sake of a kid.

That's just me personally. At the same time, I could see how a lot of dads would be just like "F' it", I am going to get it right with the next kid.

I didn't think I wanted to see a whole ass Lawrence episode but it was good relevant stuff and I hope to gawd him and Issa don't end up back together.

It was funny watching this show the same night watching and episode of Love Life on HBO about a girl (Jessica Williams) raised by a dad (Blair Underwood) who wasn't around and how it affected her relationships with men.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

So good.

I felt for both Lawrence and Condola; I can see how/why both you and your wife sided the way you did.

And ya, this was the season's first dose of the realness/awkwardness I've come to expect from conflicts/tensions on the show. They did a very good job of styling Condola to look as stressed out as a new single mom would likely be, and it really helps reinforce the change her and Lawrence's dynamic. As in, it's crazy to think how attracted/affectionate they used to be each other... and tbh I wouldn't even be able to picture them like that now (from either side) if I hadn't known lol. The contrast between her vibe and appearance last season and her vibe and appearance so far this season is so important to show imho. As is the contrast between her and, say, Tiffany, who had more of a support system in Derek and her friends/sorors even tho she had trouble adapting to motherhood too.

And yes I also hope Lawrence and Issa don't get back together. I would have preferred they stuck with the long-distance-and-doomed-to-fail storyline with them than Issa bailing the way she did without even trying like wtf smh. Annoying as hell. Then her weird reneg on Nathan smh, also annoying as hell. Personally I think Issa should just stay single for a while, but who knows what they have in store for her. But the Black woman not tripping abt being single while focusing on her friends and career def exists, and I wonder why they've been so reluctant to have Issa own that space. I'd much prefer seeing Issa demonstrate growth that way for the final season rather than more of the same hijinks with whatever dude(s).

but not pressed about any of them as she focuses on self and career.

The fact that her and Nathan are hooking up right now makes me think there will be drama between them before the season ends.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

>The fact that her and Nathan are hooking up right now makes me
>think there will be drama between them before the season ends.

During the trailer for this season there's a scene we haven't seen yet of Lawrence and Issa making sex eyes at eachother from a distance at what looks like a wedding ? Or something like that.

So yea. The Lawrence/Issa storyline is far from done IMO and even if that weren't the case, it'd make for a pretty boring final season if her love life were settled in ep4 or whatever haha.

Drama coming.

reminds me of the recent season of Master of None

hope it continues to dedicate episodes to other character struggles

Issa and Nathan may be a thing but I think Lawrence moves back to LA and fucks shit up lol

Someone else mentioned earlier in the thread how strange it was to focus on non-central characters like Lawrence and Condoleeza Rice. Folks made a good argument about how Lawrence is more central than it looks but I will say seeing scenes with Nathan and his boys seemed so far removed from the main characters. Also there was nothing in that scene revealed about Nathan that we didn't really get from his scene with Issa.

Maybe a minor storytelling beef but there does seem like an unfocusness this far.

If the last few episodes spent a bit of time wrapping up the storylines for the other characters, that would be cool but it does seems like they are treading water with what to do with ISSA.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

>Someone else mentioned earlier in the thread how strange it
>was to focus on non-central characters like Lawrence and
>Condoleeza Rice. Folks made a good argument about how
>Lawrence is more central than it looks but I will say seeing
>scenes with Nathan and his boys seemed so far removed from the
>main characters. Also there was nothing in that scene
>revealed about Nathan that we didn't really get from his scene
>with Issa.
>
>Maybe a minor storytelling beef but there does seem like an
>unfocusness this far.

at this point Nathan is almost as much of a "central character" as Lawrence

thinking about it Daniel had multiple scenes as the the main character too

and its definitely about where Issa is going in her journey to find a relationship.

>and its definitely about where Issa is going in her journey
>to find a relationship.

*************************************

Fuck aliens

-Warriorpoet415

#2dopebrothersandastackofwax

https://www.instagram.com/bobgeorge87

https://www.instagram.com/thirtythree.three/

one was obviously fake lol

I think it was their commitment to playing it naturally for so long that got me. once it happened I cracked up and realized I should have seen it coming, but they held on so long I was convinced it was real.

him is a bad, monotone actor.

Makes sense as we know from earlier in the series (i.e. Daniel) that she has a weakness for sexy dark-skinned artists who are a little rough around the edges lol

If the writers go there tho I would've preferred Issa remained (happily, productively) single for a while and demonstrated some personal and career growth before sparks flew btwn them by, say, closer to the series end.

Bc 5 seasons of her same quirky self-sabotage is too much. We all have to learn and grow in life, why can't she lol? Furthermore, Crenshawn's fuck-the-bullshit personality is so unlike the other men she's linked with on the show and would be most appropriate for a new-and-improved Issa.

is. Additionally, Nathan seems a bit more together career-wise than S1E1 Lawrence, no? Like isn't he part-owner of that barbershop or something?

I see them as so, so, different.

But most importantly in the way Lawrence actually loved Issa, flaws and all, whereas Nathan is (understandably, based on Issa's mixed signals) cautious and seems to just be consenting to some casual relations.

I give Nathan credit for vocalizing his caution tho, I'm glad they had that conversation.

and Lawrence was taking Issa for granted in season 1 and only showed his “love” for her
once she cheated. I know he loved her but love looks different after years of dating and no real change in the relationship or in your career growth

Lawrence had no hunger or passion for living until he was single

but lets look at Issa now.

Career is in the shitter and she is sitting on a small ass couch with a dude who doesn’t know what he wants in life right now.

And iirc they began looking long before he found out about Daniel.

He was underemployed, not uninterested/uncommitted. Big difference.

But ya.. all Issa and Lawrence's Season 1 situation needed - for him to be who she desired in her post-breakup daydream sequence that ended the season - was a better job for Lawrence; and that's exactly what ended up happening. It's not like she adequately vocalized what was dissatisfying her so much until after she'd already cheated either.

And now that you mention it... I don't think I've liked 'Single Lawrence' throughout the seasons. To me... his hunger and passion improved because his *employment* situation changed and renewed his sense of purpose, not his relationship status. In fact if we focus exclusively on how he interacted with women post-Issa, Single Lawrence was just a garden-variety horndog randomly attracted to whoever lol. And even compared to Condola, with whom he seemed to actually want to make something work, I still think he was his sweetest/most-committed self to Issa out of all the women they've put him with.

So nah, no way I can defend Season 1 Issa lol; Lawrence didn't instigate/do her dirty at all. She fucked that shit all the way up. I respect your interpretation too tho.

but he was right though and they don't seem like a good fit. she's
childish/immature and he's troubled and aloof.

i love molly and the lawyer guy together, they seem like a good fit. i
hope it works out.

>i love molly and the lawyer guy together, they seem like a
>good fit. i
>hope it works out.

Yeah if one of them gets a different job.
Don't shit where you eat.

IMO his storyline was at its natural end the last time. I didn't need to know anything more about him.

but the end of that last episode with them sitting on that small ass couch really felt like she is with another fuck up who hasn’t figured out wtf he wants out of life yet.

but also remember the whole “maybe I’ll leave Cali” was exactly what his fam was hinting at the prior week. Nathan stay on the move and just disappears on people.

>but the end of that last episode with them sitting on that
>small ass couch really felt like she is with another fuck up
>who hasn’t figured out wtf he wants out of life yet.
>
>but also remember the whole “maybe I’ll leave Cali” was
>exactly what his fam was hinting at the prior week. Nathan
>stay on the move and just disappears on people.

There's a degree to which this is true but I think his criticisms of Issa were pretty on point as well. For someone who wanted to "take it slow" she was damn quick to tell him she loved him.

Issa is messy af and she is using people again.

Its like anytime she gets with Lawrence she reverts back to the old Issa.

Her biz is in the shitter again and she is fake loving on Nathan.

she *liked* him enough to practically stalk him after he ghosted on her a few seasons back

they're in a relationship now even if it's an early stage. it's feasible for her to love Nathan at this point while using him as a Band-Aid for Lawrence

>she *liked* him enough to practically stalk him after he
>ghosted on her a few seasons back
>
>they're in a relationship now even if it's an early stage.
>it's feasible for her to love Nathan at this point while using
>him as a Band-Aid for Lawrence

I'm not saying she can't feel that way or that it wouldn't make sense from her perspective. I'm saying I can understand why Nathan would be frustrated and confused about her mixed signals, and why he wouldn't want to jump right into "I love you"s with someone who just a couple weeks prior was telling him they should take it slow, among other things.

like if she didn’t see Lawrence in the hospital would she use that word?

maybe..

but based on previous weeks it feels like she is trying to rush things to heal herself.

I get what you mean but I also felt like his delivery fit the character.

He does seem to exist pretty much as a foil to Issa's relationship choices right now. She starts trying to get him to say he loves her right after she realized Lawrence moved back.

And I actually like him in Insecure.
Seems like people I know.
And I like him as a counter to the super ambitious career folks we see in Molly, (new) Lawrence, and Issa.

>And I like him as a counter to the super ambitious career
>folks we see in Molly, (new) Lawrence, and Issa.
>

yes, I wanted to say something like this but didn't know how to word it. like his character is less 'interesting' for a TV show but that's most 'normal' people. and making his character overly dramatic along with the bi-polar angle might have been too much.

Nathan and Issa together as a couple.

Or rather, I don't like Issa for Nathan. She's always using/rebounding to him, and with his mental health issues I'd prefer to see him with somebody more sweet and consistent.

I was actually thinking that he and Kelly might have made a better pairing; that could've been an interesting sub-drama. They sort of pinned Kelly into being this one-dimensional horny goofball throughout the show, but a budding romance with a slightly-troubled-but-getting- back-on-his-feet dude could have been a good opportunity to show a more serious/sweet side to her as well as more depth. And with her expertise/stable job in finance/accounting maybe she would have been a good influence for Nathan not just emotionally but in a practical sense too.

If they had hit it off while Issa was re-connecting with Lawrence, then one early season 5 episode could've played out with a whole thing about "hey I kinda like Nathan, are you cool if I explore things with him" to which Issa could've given her (likely reluctant but sincere) blessing.

There would have probably been some (funny) awkward moments, but when is there not awkward moments with Issa lol. And if my little Crenshawn fantasy were to work out for her the way I hoped, then that would have been a perfect wrap to the series for me haha

I guess I'm not feeling season 5 as much as the others if I'm wishing for all these changes to the plot lol

and messy as hell even for that show. I could see Kelly getting with TSA first, at least Issa was never actually serious about him.

the writers haven't really allowed Issa to actually be serious about any men so far in the show, incl Lawrence imho. We've also not seen her slow down/reflect/learn from her mistakes even once. They've allowed Molly to grow in that sense, and Lawrence, hell even Tiffany.

But Issa just kind of reacts to the last thing that happened to her with a new/diff person. I'm not saying rebounding is a crime, we've all been there I'm sure (tbh I have a single gf that still dates this way lol), but it's just annoying to watch her patterns not be addressed after so many seasons.

So with that context, do I think Issa is or has ever been super serious about Nathan? No tbh. He's a friend she's hooked up with a few times when she doesn't want to confront her bs with Lawrence. Maybe it's not even healthy? And I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility that he could develop a deeper and healthier connection with somebody else in the time they've known each other.

Would that person NEED to be Kelly? I guess not lol, you're right - it's a bit messy. But I also suggest it just bc I would've liked to see the writers give Kelly a little more depth like they did for other supporting characters (eg. Tiffany). For example, maybe his barbershop or therapist location or whatever could be on the same street as Kelly's office, and they bump into each other often and bond on occasion type thing.

The Insecure writers are smart, I'm sure they could have made it all flow realistically lol

one of the writers for the show she probably has more say over her character than most of the other actors despite the #Kellyhive clamoring for more.

Also IRL in general friends tend to avoid their friends' recent exes/sex partners I can't see how a Kelly-Nathan thing would've worked if they had wanted to give her a boo they probably would've given more depth to the "Quantrell" character.

>the writers haven't really allowed Issa to actually be
>serious about any men so far in the show, incl Lawrence imho.
>We've also not seen her slow down/reflect/learn from her
>mistakes even once. They've allowed Molly to grow in that
>sense, and Lawrence, hell even Tiffany.
>
>But Issa just kind of reacts to the last thing that happened
>to her with a new/diff person. I'm not saying rebounding is a
>crime, we've all been there I'm sure (tbh I have a single gf
>that still dates this way lol), but it's just annoying to
>watch her patterns not be addressed after so many seasons.
>
>So with that context, do I think Issa is or has ever been
>super serious about Nathan? No tbh. He's a friend she's hooked
>up with a few times when she doesn't want to confront her bs
>with Lawrence. Maybe it's not even healthy? And I don't think
>it's beyond the realm of possibility that he could develop a
>deeper and healthier connection with somebody else in the time
>they've known each other.
>
>Would that person NEED to be Kelly? I guess not lol, you're
>right - it's a bit messy. But I also suggest it just bc I
>would've liked to see the writers give Kelly a little more
>depth like they did for other supporting characters (eg.
>Tiffany). For example, maybe his barbershop or therapist
>location or whatever could be on the same street as Kelly's
>office, and they bump into each other often and bond on
>occasion type thing.
>
>The Insecure writers are smart, I'm sure they could have made
>it all flow realistically lol

Anyway, I'm not saying friends dating each other's past dates is something to strive for, but it's also ridiculous to pretend it never, ever, ever happens...no? As long as all parties communicate/double-check, have completely moved on, and are comfortable with it, I don't see the issue. Furthermore, I even suggested that Kelly could have approached Issa about it first, which would have allowed for a wtf-hell-no if the writers saw fit. I truly believe they could have written it to play out in a tasteful manner tho.

I once set up a friend with a guy I'd hung out with a couple of times years prior (prob most similar to Issa and Nathan's vibe). We did not consider each other exes, and it wasn't a big deal.... There was zero chance of attraction resurfacing, I had since entered a relationship with a diff guy my friend had herself set me up with, and I was actually out with her when Nathan-guy noticed her and asked me about her in the first place.

He even went out of his way to call me later that week to press further for her info, and at that time I personally knew that she was not only bummed about being single but trapped in a toxic cycle of falling for taken men. I was more than happy to link her with a vetted, actually single, and normal 6'5 dude with an MBA, and she was intrigued enough that she approved me passing on her info in spite of me meeting him first like 2 years before that. Should I have blocked a potential love connection for no reason? lol. Literally nobody cared.

Issa never loved Nathan; I think with the right timing it would've been fine *shrug*

>Anyway, I'm not saying friends dating each other's past dates
>is something to strive for, but it's also ridiculous to
>pretend it never, ever, ever happens...no? As long as all
>parties communicate/double-check, have completely moved on,
>and are comfortable with it, I don't see the issue.
>Furthermore, I even suggested that Kelly could have approached
>Issa about it first, which would have allowed for a
>wtf-hell-no if the writers saw fit. I truly believe they could
>have written it to play out in a tasteful manner tho.
>
>I once set up a friend with a guy I'd hung out with a couple
>of times years prior (prob most similar to Issa and Nathan's
>vibe). We did not consider each other exes, and it wasn't a
>big deal.... There was zero chance of attraction resurfacing,
>I had since entered a relationship with a diff guy my friend
>had herself set me up with, and I was actually out with her
>when Nathan-guy noticed her and asked me about her in the
>first place.
>
>He even went out of his way to call me later that week to
>press further for her info, and at that time I personally knew
>that she was not only bummed about being single but trapped in
>a toxic cycle of falling for taken men. I was more than happy
>to link her with a vetted, actually single, and normal 6'5
>dude with an MBA, and she was intrigued enough that she
>approved me passing on her info in spite of me meeting him
>first like 2 years before that. Should I have blocked a
>potential love connection for no reason? lol. Literally nobody
>cared.
>
>Issa never loved Nathan; I think with the right timing it
>would've been fine *shrug*

I remember when white dudes started saying “hooked up” in college.

Finally we realized they meant sex

>I remember when white dudes started saying “hooked up” in
>college.
>
>Finally we realized they meant sex

right I'm old I need these terms defined, I was joking with a friend earlier that I was late to finding out what a "kickback" was lol

no problem but suddenly "hooked up"/"hung out with" is too complicated to decipher lol

Anyway. To answer your question yes, we had, but I think context is key.

When I met him, I was still fairly new to the area and ran into him a lot bc he worked in my neighborhood. I was also bartending occasionally for some promoters I'd met and it turned out one of the spots where they hosted was a frequent hangout for Nathan-guy and his friends. He'd just kinda look out for me, tip well, invite me out afterwards, check in about whether I needed a ride home, etc - and it was on a couple occasions like that something happened.

I soon quit bartending altogether and he eventually got a better job downtown, so the vibe evolved more into him occasionally checking in or inviting my friends and I out. By the time he'd noticed my friend, we'd already spent much more time in a homie vibe than the other vibe (which was never really courtship/romantic/emotional anyway), and I was transparent about when and how I knew him to my friend and put in a good word about his personality. End of the day, I didn't mind them for each other bc he was actually a decent guy and upon further thought they had much more in common (eg. both really into basketball/used to play, extraverted, liked being out a lot) than he and I ever did.

I also want to point out that I'd met my then bf at a small get-together she'd hosted, but for that reason double-checked (with him first then her) whether they had history or any other reason not to explore things before agreeing to move fwd. And during my relationship with that dude, one incident involved his sibling's wedding which I attended - only to be propositioned for sex by his very married blood-uncle and hit on by a guy he'd known since elementary school (who I later found out was the 10y boyfriend/fiance of a woman good friends with one of my best friends) simply bc my bf wasn't by my side every second of the night as a groomsman.

So just goes to show that the "sloppy seconds" boundary can be perceived or crossed in a multitude of ways (especially when dating within a sub-community, like ethnic or religious). And for me, one of the strongest safeguards against drama is not necessarily declaring ownership over every single person one's had chemistry with, but simply acknowledging its propensity to happen in the first place and moving respectfully, always. Especially nowadays, like with the deluge of married men abusing matchmaking apps to cruise for ass, smh. Due dilligence is basically a must bc you never know whose husband or ex you could be unknowingly chatting with.

The one caveat I'll concede to you tho is that Kelly would have been around Issa and Nathan as a couple, whereas my friend never knew Nathan-guy and I jointly like that. Any husband, boyfriend, or fwb of one of my friends immediately becomes asexual/familial to me as I get to know them too, so tbf I could never ever be attracted to a guy I only knew BECAUSE he'd been with my friend. So you raise a fair point.

see, I had no idea hung out meant yall had sex.

but I also have no idea wtf that livestock example was about so I feel better about admitting I didn’t know what hung out meant.

and use other farming terminology to describe to the frequency and/or difficulty of sexing said women, based on their personalities and other attributes?

Too lazy to search for/thru his old 'hoetation' posts but I distinctly remember his colorful lingo and not one person going "what do you mean by saying so-and-so" lol

edit: but ya, re: translating myself - no prob lol

>no problem but suddenly "hooked up"/"hung out with" is too
>complicated to decipher lol
>
>Anyway. To answer your question yes, we had, but I think
>context is key.
>
>When I met him, I was still fairly new to the area and ran
>into him a lot bc he worked in my neighborhood. I was also
>bartending occasionally for some promoters I'd met and it
>turned out one of the spots where they hosted was a frequent
>hangout for Nathan-guy and his friends. He'd just kinda look
>out for me, tip well, invite me out afterwards, check in about
>whether I needed a ride home, etc - and it was on a couple
>occasions like that something happened.
>
>I soon quit bartending altogether and he eventually got a
>better job downtown, so the vibe evolved more into him
>occasionally checking in or inviting my friends and I out. By
>the time he'd noticed my friend, we'd already spent much more
>time in a homie vibe than the other vibe (which was never
>really courtship/romantic/emotional anyway), and I was
>transparent about when and how I knew him to my friend and put
>in a good word about his personality. End of the day, I didn't
>mind them for each other bc he was actually a decent guy and
>upon further thought they had much more in common (eg. both
>really into basketball/used to play, extraverted, liked being
>out a lot) than he and I ever did.
>
>I also want to point out that I'd met my then bf at a small
>get-together she'd hosted, but for that reason double-checked
>(with him first then her) whether they had history or any
>other reason not to explore things before agreeing to move
>fwd. And during my relationship with that dude, one incident
>involved his sibling's wedding which I attended - only to be
>propositioned for sex by his very married blood-uncle and hit
>on by a guy he'd known since elementary school (who I later
>found out was the 10y boyfriend/fiance of a woman good friends
>with one of my best friends) simply bc my bf wasn't by my side
>every second of the night as a groomsman.
>
>So just goes to show that the "sloppy seconds" boundary can be
>perceived or crossed in a multitude of ways (especially when
>dating within a sub-community, like ethnic or religious). And
>for me, one of the strongest safeguards against drama is not
>necessarily declaring ownership over every single person one's
>had chemistry with, but simply acknowledging its propensity to
>happen in the first place and moving respectfully, always.
>Especially nowadays, like with the deluge of married men
>abusing matchmaking apps to cruise for ass, smh. Due
>dilligence is basically a must bc you never know whose husband
>or ex you could be unknowingly chatting with.
>
>The one caveat I'll concede to you tho is that Kelly would
>have been around Issa and Nathan as a couple, whereas my
>friend never knew Nathan-guy and I jointly like that. Any
>husband, boyfriend, or fwb of one of my friends immediately
>becomes asexual/familial to me as I get to know them too, so
>tbf I could never ever be attracted to a guy I only knew
>BECAUSE he'd been with my friend. So you raise a fair point.
>

well you guys seemed to want things made crystal clear! lol

not my fault it buried the lede

>no problem but suddenly "hooked up"/"hung out with" is too
>complicated to decipher lol
>
>Anyway. To answer your question yes, we had, but I think
>context is key.
>
>When I met him, I was still fairly new to the area and ran
>into him a lot bc he worked in my neighborhood. I was also
>bartending occasionally for some promoters I'd met and it
>turned out one of the spots where they hosted was a frequent
>hangout for Nathan-guy and his friends. He'd just kinda look
>out for me, tip well, invite me out afterwards, check in about
>whether I needed a ride home, etc - and it was on a couple
>occasions like that something happened.
>
>I soon quit bartending altogether and he eventually got a
>better job downtown, so the vibe evolved more into him
>occasionally checking in or inviting my friends and I out. By
>the time he'd noticed my friend, we'd already spent much more
>time in a homie vibe than the other vibe (which was never
>really courtship/romantic/emotional anyway), and I was
>transparent about when and how I knew him to my friend and put
>in a good word about his personality. End of the day, I didn't
>mind them for each other bc he was actually a decent guy and
>upon further thought they had much more in common (eg. both
>really into basketball/used to play, extraverted, liked being
>out a lot) than he and I ever did.
>
>I also want to point out that I'd met my then bf at a small
>get-together she'd hosted, but for that reason double-checked
>(with him first then her) whether they had history or any
>other reason not to explore things before agreeing to move
>fwd. And during my relationship with that dude, one incident
>involved his sibling's wedding which I attended - only to be
>propositioned for sex by his very married blood-uncle and hit
>on by a guy he'd known since elementary school (who I later
>found out was the 10y boyfriend/fiance of a woman good friends
>with one of my best friends) simply bc my bf wasn't by my side
>every second of the night as a groomsman.
>
>So just goes to show that the "sloppy seconds" boundary can be
>perceived or crossed in a multitude of ways (especially when
>dating within a sub-community, like ethnic or religious). And
>for me, one of the strongest safeguards against drama is not
>necessarily declaring ownership over every single person one's
>had chemistry with, but simply acknowledging its propensity to
>happen in the first place and moving respectfully, always.
>Especially nowadays, like with the deluge of married men
>abusing matchmaking apps to cruise for ass, smh. Due
>dilligence is basically a must bc you never know whose husband
>or ex you could be unknowingly chatting with.
>
>The one caveat I'll concede to you tho is that Kelly would
>have been around Issa and Nathan as a couple, whereas my
>friend never knew Nathan-guy and I jointly like that. Any
>husband, boyfriend, or fwb of one of my friends immediately
>becomes asexual/familial to me as I get to know them too, so
>tbf I could never ever be attracted to a guy I only knew
>BECAUSE he'd been with my friend. So you raise a fair point.
>

Seems like there's a lot happening for a series ending in what, 4 episodes.
But next week's girl party episode will probably lead to everyone figuring their shit out.

... primarily fan servicing, beyond all else. Like this episode was definitely just a way to get the 4 girls in the room together, just them, for possibly the last time.

Issa and Molly's romantic storylines got minor pushes forward via that get together.

And if that's indeed what they're going for I'm perfectly fine with that. It's a half hour, super fun comedy with lovable characters who are easy to root for. I'm not expecting a crazy ending or anything like that, a la Breaking Bad or Sopranos or any of those major dramas.

>... primarily fan servicing, beyond all else. Like this
>episode was definitely just a way to get the 4 girls in the
>room together, just them, for possibly the last time.
>
>Issa and Molly's romantic storylines got minor pushes forward
>via that get together.
>
>And if that's indeed what they're going for I'm perfectly fine
>with that. It's a half hour, super fun comedy with lovable
>characters who are easy to root for. I'm not expecting a crazy
>ending or anything like that, a la Breaking Bad or Sopranos or
>any of those major dramas.

I pretty much agree but the back and forth with Issa between Nathan and Lawrence will be interesting to see how they wrap up

>I pretty much agree but the back and forth with Issa between Nathan and Lawrence will be interesting to see how they wrap up

'major' dramas, tho?

Think about one of the most obvious ways those shows differ from Insecure.

Bc we can't deny that Insecure has been one of the only 'major' comedy/dramas to center millenial Black women, men, and the things we deal with.

So for those of us in that demo, I get why we might want a bit more out of that fan-servicing, you know?

Like, Issa/HBO kind of positioned Insecure as a 'Sex And The City' type universe we can see ourselves in and relate to, and SATC itself was 6 seasons. So in that regard, ya I do crave the kind of character and story arcs (and replay value) that a show of this calibre typically provides.

This isn't to come at you, or to say I don't think Issa and the Insecure team have done a phenomenal job both in and behind-the-scenes (they 100% have). But just wanted to pushback a bit about why it's not just some garden variety half-hour show (for some).

I guess I should note that during the pandemic I developed an unfortunate addiction to Nigerian millenial soaps, which can go to hell and back in 30mins sometimes, lol. This has also shaped my reluctance to view things like episode length as a barrier lol

its a bit hokey and my wife laughs that I’m watching these shows about women but I will watch damn near ANYTHING with Black people on the screen.

that being said..

I see this similar to Atlanta in the way its moved. Not the story arcs or acting but the creator having wild success and maybe being stretched a bit thin so the show that put them on isn’t getting the attention it truly deserves nor the proper/satisfying ending.

with SATC and such, there were also weak seasons... they were just earlier. Lol. It finished off strong af tho, which I guess paved the way for them to be able to spin off the movie franchise, games, merch, etc.

I don't need Insecure to follow that path commercially. And, a weak last season def wouldn't prevent me from rewatching other parts of the series (I'd prob just skip it more). I definitely seeing it retaining it's Black millenial cult status. But I still think fans have the right to long for more from certain characters or storyline. That's just a natural byproduct of becoming invested lol.

It's crazy that both Atlanta and Insecure debuted in 2016, but Atlanta's been only 2 seasons whereas Insecure's about to wrap for good on it's 5th. I just read Atlanta's resuming in 2022 - I wonder if the timing of that was planned to coincide with Insecure ending?? Did Atlanta and Insecure compete for the same audience? I never really got into it tbh (I'm actually not much of a tv person, just that once I open up to a show I commit lol).

which is why I think their scheduling is off.

Insecure and Atlanta were on different days too so no real conflict.

For starters, I used the word "major" very poorly. My intention with the term "major dramas" was to illustrate that those shows are almost exclusively dramas, with some comedy mixed in. Whereas Insecure and SATC and shows in that "category" are primarily comedies with drama being secondary.

And in doing so, my post also came off a little dismissive, as if to say that Insecure is somehow a lesser show, which I don't believe it is. I was just trying to describe (poorly, it turns out) how they are in different categories in my eyes based on format and genre (1 hr drama w/comedy sprinkled in vs 1/2 hour dramady w/great character development, visuals, relationship storylines, etc.).

And then of course I totally missed the mark by pitting a "Black" show/a show targeted to Black audiences, against two "white" shows. That was definitely unintentional but that doesn't make it any less stupid or potentially offensive and to that end, I apologize. I'm usually cognizant of not doing that or at the very least, acknowledging it directly and explaining myself better to make clear that my intentions are not to do that, but I obviously dropped the ball in this instance. My bad.

With that in mind, I'm glad you mentioned SATC because I'd agree that SATC and Insecure fall into similar categories at least in terms of the loose "format" and tone of both shows. So were this post about SATC, my response about how the series finale/final season was going would be similar in that my expectations for the tone and direction of its final season (continued character development, great relationship storylines, some fan servicing) would be quite different than they would be watching final seasons for hourlong dramas like Sopranos, BB, or The Wire, et al where I, personally, would be expecting fireworks and deaths and shit like that haha - because that's what those shows had historically given me/us.

So with all that better explained (I hope, at least), your point here:

>Bc we can't deny that Insecure has been one of the only
>'major' comedy/dramas to center millenial Black women, men,
>and the things we deal with.
>
>So for those of us in that demo, I get why we might want a bit
>more out of that fan-servicing, you know?
>
>Like, Issa/HBO kind of positioned Insecure as a 'Sex And The
>City' type universe we can see ourselves in and relate to, and
>SATC itself was 6 seasons. So in that regard, ya I do crave
>the kind of character and story arcs (and replay value) that a
>show of this calibre typically provides.
>
>This isn't to come at you, or to say I don't think Issa and
>the Insecure team have done a phenomenal job both in and
>behind-the-scenes (they 100% have). But just wanted to
>pushback a bit about why it's not just some garden variety
>half-hour show (for some).

... is extremely well taken. And I know you're not coming at me at all, especially because you're 100% right. I probably overstated my point about "fan servicing," and again did not mean to come off so dismissive. I don't view Insecure as a garden variety show (and I know you weren't implying that I do) .. I think it's top tier, incredibly well-written, well-produced, well-directed, well-acted .. it's one of my favorite shows of the past 5+ years.

I was just trying to parse my personal series-finale expectations for shows in the half-hour "comedy/dramady" category vs full-hour "dramas." Which probably wasn't even relevant, looking back at the post I responded to. But I was just thinking out loud as we collectively talked about how the final season seems to be moving a little more slowly than we'd all maybe expect or hope. And again I did a pretty poor job of explaining myself in that regard haha. Hopefully I'm a little clearer now. My post was (supposed to be) about genre, not quality of the respective shows.


>I guess I should note that during the pandemic I developed an
>unfortunate addiction to Nigerian millenial soaps, which can
>go to hell and back in 30mins sometimes, lol. This has also
>shaped my reluctance to view things like episode length as a
>barrier lol

Hahaha ! What service do you watch the Nigerian shows on ?

Anyway I'm actually glad you said this because all of what I said above/the point I was trying to make is clearly shaped by how shows in the US have been formatted and presented to us. So my expectations about series finales are all kind of based on flimsy ideas about what shows fit into what boxes, probably largely based on that subconscious "training." And that's on top of my missing the mark about viewing all shows thru my white guy lens and my expectations, therefore, naturally being different than how the Black demo would view Insecure and their/your expectations for it.

The way you're emphasizing the half-hour v. full-hour formats + genre nuances here helps me understand a lot better where you were coming from in your original response too. And I think I did misinterpret your use of 'major' a bit, so that's on me.

But ya. Comparing to SATC is helpful for many reasons, like I was just saying to legs. All these shows have had their weak points.

I think I just wanted to defend viewers' right to be a bit more critical/demanding the more they can identify with a show's characters/stories.


>Hahaha ! What service do you watch the Nigerian shows on ?

^Lol! Aw man, a nollywood primer could prob be its own post lol. I'm not even that deep in it, and there's levels to the quality. The shows I was referencing are mostly cheesy webseries I find on youtube tho lol (I think some might start off broadcast on tv networks back home however, and I know Netflix carries a selection).

I would have to rank Lekki Wives as the craziest soap I've seen (in the most camp way possible lol; episodes seem to have been taken down but here's one season's trailer lol: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2x-F94DVyjU), with an Angolan soap named Windeck a close second (eg. a villain threw herself in front of a moving car just to garner sympathy and affection from her sister's love interest lol). But there's also more normal ones like Men's Club, Skinny Girl in Transit etc, and and they'll sometimes use the same actors and actresses.

I'll watch sped up 1.5x-2x to get sleepy before bed kinda thing; total guilty pleasure shit lol

glad Nathan said what he said

but there is still a part of me that thinks he has too much going on mentally and he will bail

feels like HBO shows find out its their final season at the last minute and make shit up or rush the ending.

hopefully they don’t stick to the 30 minutes for the last ep. Would like to see an hour and some legit closure.

but I’m prepared for the HBO series ending.

Leftovers

I’m sure there are more. Just feels like HBO series are built to go longer and then one day someone walks on set and tells them to wrap it up cause the money is funny.

When Issa threw the baby that was good. The next dream sequence in that episode was too many. Now two more extended day dreams in this episode, plus that ending. It's too many.

this whole season has been a dream

or worse, she wakes up back in Season 1 still with Lawrence

I find them kinda fun.
I like the ones they did on this last episode
more than her doing the outrageous stuff like
throwing babies and kung fu.

should’ve started the season with this fight and then did a 6 month rewind

every episode

there's no way they saw the light at one episode left lol

they wanted him as a foil for Issa work-wise and nothing else smh

too bad

the whole time Lawrence and Nathan were beefing tho I was like see now if Issa would've got with Crenshawn like she was supposed to she wouldn't be dealing with this rt now bc Lawrence NEVER would've stepped to Crenshawn like that lol

only because next episode Issa and Common lite gonna have a break up fight.

Shout out to Dro letting the heat cool down before coming back on the show tho lol

reasonable somebody (c) a Nigerian Aunty

the minute he left that party

and that baby wasn’t planned.

sucks but at least he said what he needed to say

shoulda waited tho.. they really bammed up the party?

>and that baby wasn’t planned.
>
>sucks but at least he said what he needed to say
>
>shoulda waited tho.. they really bammed up the party?

somebody said that's the 3rd time he bammed a Tiffany and Derek party, first when he brought Aparna to Derek's bday, then at the baby shower when was arguing with Condola, now this, I doubt if he's on any more of their invite lists lol

Lawrence prob will keep getting invited bc he makes their parties interesting!

How abt the friend that wanted his props for buying Derek the eel briefcase? That dude mumbles too much but is hella funny! He deserved a shout-out!

>RE: Derek and Tiffany are bland as hell!
>Lawrence prob will keep getting invited bc he makes their
>parties interesting!
>
>How abt the friend that wanted his props for buying Derek the
>eel briefcase? That dude mumbles too much but is hella funny!
>He deserved a shout-out!

I'm not saying Lawrence and Condola were perfect/didn't have some bumps in the road like many new relationships do, but he was def still in communication with Condola as season 4 ended - right down to the night he and Issa hooked up and (briefly) rekindled their relationship.

That hookup, and the subsequent curbing of both Condola and Nathan, wasn't some inevitable thing that needed to happen; he and Issa could have just cleared the air/settled their differences as peaceful exes without going there.

In fact, even if they were overcome with attraction, they could've just fucked the one last time and moved on without disrupting their other prospects. This is especially evident given the way Issa did an abrupt 180 on Lawrence after all that fuss and, predictably as per her usual nonsense, made a beeline back to Nathan.

Sorry, but I just feel like if we remove the fact that Lawrence loves/cares for Issa she's essentially been nothin short of a villain in this man's life. The cheating, the using, the inconsistency, etc. Reverse the genders and she's a textbook fuckboy lol

and everyone has called her out on it

she is messy as hell.

-

>I'm not saying Lawrence and Condola were perfect/didn't have
>some bumps in the road like many new relationships do, but he
>was def still in communication with Condola as season 4 ended
>- right down to the night he and Issa hooked up and (briefly)
>rekindled their relationship.
>
>That hookup, and the subsequent curbing of both Condola and
>Nathan, wasn't some inevitable thing that needed to happen; he
>and Issa could have just cleared the air/settled their
>differences as peaceful exes without going there.
>
>In fact, even if they were overcome with attraction, they
>could've just fucked the one last time and moved on without
>disrupting their other prospects. This is especially evident
>given the way Issa did an abrupt 180 on Lawrence after all
>that fuss and, predictably as per her usual nonsense, made a
>beeline back to Nathan.
>
>Sorry, but I just feel like if we remove the fact that
>Lawrence loves/cares for Issa she's essentially been nothin
>short of a villain in this man's life. The cheating, the
>using, the inconsistency, etc. Reverse the genders and she's a
>textbook fuckboy lol

>I'm not saying Lawrence and Condola were perfect/didn't have
>some bumps in the road like many new relationships do, but he
>was def still in communication with Condola as season 4 ended
>- right down to the night he and Issa hooked up and (briefly)
>rekindled their relationship.
Condola's drunk girl set the stage but she asked him about whether he and Issa would still be together if things worked out, but he never asked her. I mean that is THE dumbest relationship question to ask. He meshed fine with all her friends during a major family/friend holiday so it wasn't like he was acting sideways. She knew early on Issa's and Lawrence's connection, and chose to proceed. She was the least OK person with it, which is understandable, but Issa and Lawrence were playing it above board *shrugs*

>
>That hookup, and the subsequent curbing of both Condola and
>Nathan, wasn't some inevitable thing that needed to happen; he
>and Issa could have just cleared the air/settled their
>differences as peaceful exes without going there.
>
>In fact, even if they were overcome with attraction, they
>could've just fucked the one last time and moved on without
>disrupting their other prospects. This is especially evident
>given the way Issa did an abrupt 180 on Lawrence after all
>that fuss and, predictably as per her usual nonsense, made a
>beeline back to Nathan.
>
>Sorry, but I just feel like if we remove the fact that
>Lawrence loves/cares for Issa she's essentially been nothin
>short of a villain in this man's life. The cheating, the
>using, the inconsistency, etc. Reverse the genders and she's a
>textbook fuckboy lol

Lawrence wasn't SHIT when this show started. We enter the story with Issa having carried them for who knows how long? How long had he been depressed? She was already with a shitty non-profit, who's to say that what she ended up becoming was held back by being the only breadwinner at the time? Her sleeping with Daniel was the act but the decision to break up was made during her birthday, being at a crossroads of sort. The train had already left the station by the time Lawrence started to get his ass back in gear. The separation, messy parts and all, allowed them to come back together as much better people.

is more her speed

This final season felt a little rushed in some ways but minor gripes w/that aside, this show was terrific from beginning to end and I'll really miss it.

and just like that...

and things moved fast like I was confused when they moved from Molly receiving the phone call about her mother to Lawrence's mother singing happy birthday I guess they wanted to try to tie up all the loose ends even Kelly's situation that some people have been clamoring for lol

they even showed Frieda and the other girl from the original ABG series still at We Got Y'all...

I did like the separate hour long The End doc about the show that was more of a tear jerker than the actual final episode lol

>I did like the separate hour long The End doc about the show
>that was more of a tear jerker than the actual final episode
>lol

I was kinda hoping they'd go for a 60 minute series finale
given all the criticism about the episodes being so short.
While they did extend the last episode by 12 minutes,
the 1-hour long documentary at the end really helped bring
everything together. The documentary helped me feel
at peace with the series that I wasn't expecting.

I'm kinda disappointed I was able to guess that

lol


Happy for all the characters


Thank you Issa Rae & Co. for shining a light on us


Cult classic

good close out for the series.

gonna repost my twitter thoughts here:

i just wish we got a lil more closure with Mama Carter, but...

one major fact that i, unfortunately, couldn’t relate to in #InsecureHBO is having a friend group/core friends that i do *all those things* with in my mid-late 20s. i’m gon be 28 in Feb & maybe i’ll be able to experience that at some point, but seeing Issa n nem is aspirational.

i kinda sorta had it in high school and college, but it was different because it was high school and college. we were limited in HS because of age and limited in college because of time/school. we didn’t get to be truly free.

unfortunately, i didn’t have HBO nor HBO Max when the show started years ago. I only got to watch when we were in the middle of season 4. got in the game late but i loved every second of it!


side note:

can y’all tell me stories about you/someone you know getting into relationships with people you didn’t necessarily *see in that way* because y’all were friends/acquaintances when you first met them? like what Taurean said to Molly in the finale?

---

https://twitter.com/MeeshUniVerSoul


welp

>gonna repost my twitter thoughts here:
>
>i just wish we got a lil more closure with Mama Carter,
>but...

It did move super fast but the had a lot of loose ends to wrap up

>one major fact that i, unfortunately, couldn’t relate to in
>#InsecureHBO is having a friend group/core friends that i do
>*all those things* with in my mid-late 20s. i’m gon be 28 in
>Feb & maybe i’ll be able to experience that at some point,
>but seeing Issa n nem is aspirational.
>
>i kinda sorta had it in high school and college, but it was
>different because it was high school and college. we were
>limited in HS because of age and limited in college because of
>time/school. we didn’t get to be truly free.
>
>unfortunately, i didn’t have HBO nor HBO Max when the show
>started years ago. I only got to watch when we were in the
>middle of season 4. got in the game late but i loved every
>second of it!

I definitely recommend going back to watch from season 1, I’ve done that after every season and am doing it now

>
>side note:
>
>can y’all tell me stories about you/someone you know getting
>into relationships with people you didn’t necessarily *see
>in that way* because y’all were friends/acquaintances when
>you first met them? like what Taurean said to Molly in the
>finale?

That’s the way it reads and I find it hard to enjoy a show besides just enjoying the Blackness of it all

seen every single episode in order. my wording/language was off

I started Insecure last year and started from the top, and got to catch up with the show as season 4 was almost over.

and when I say "closure with Mama Carter", I meant that I was sad that the scene jumped from Molly finding out she passed to Lawrence and Issa catching up on the phone. and there being no "memorial" or glimpse/mention of service for her. but yes I know they did have Molly talk about her again a bit later and then we knew she mourned her during her wedding. i was just thinking in that moment that we'd have another minute or scene directly talking about it. i hope that makes sense.

---

https://twitter.com/MeeshUniVerSoul


welp

sorry y'all, i'm dealing covid and fatigue and i'm not writing clearly
---

https://twitter.com/MeeshUniVerSoul


welp

it was a quick transition from Molly getting the call to Lawrence's mother singling happy bday and I was confused for a minute lol

she was in like 2 or 3 episodes and wasn’t a central figure.

Did you go back and watch the all the seasons?

the timing of any death is a shock but she fell ill in an earlier episode so it wasn’t a shock to viewers that she eventually passed.

……….

I agree on having a circle of friends at that age all in the same city. That’s rare. Usually your college friends or group of friends that are super close are spread out and you don’t have a chance to experience that connection on a daily/weekly basis.

I had it for the first few years after college but eventually people branch out due to job, relationships, etc.

best representation of black la since boys in the hood. dating, culture, regular work shit, gang shit, all of it.

finale really hit home for me ha. it felt like an ending for both a group of folk you knew intimately and a goodbye to the city as a character you may never see represented in that manner again (whether creative or the real life socio-economic makeup, which kinda amplifies the sadness ha).

this season dragged a little (alot) but ended strong. i could see spin-offs doing well for a lot of these characters (ahmal, kelli, a molli and taurean show). i wonder if she'll circle back around after doing different shit (sweet life wasnt really it. granted i aint watch but nobody told me i should either).

itll be interesting to see whats next from her and the gang (ol boy had the wine movie which was cool, melina is dope, etc.)




*anybody else grandma say this when somebody about to leave they house?

Finally caught up and finished Insecure. I was watching in real time this season but somewhere around episode 5 it became less must see TV and more I will get around to it when I can.

Finished it and I was satisfied it was a good season and series. It finally did what I wanted it to do which was grow up and deal with the real problems we see when we enter that phase of life.

But I got say, my biggest problem is I really think Lawrence should have given it a series try with Condola. Wasn't nothing wrong with that girl, they got a child together, and she didn't dump him 4-5 times like Issa did over the course of the season. I was hoping the series lesson would be sometimes you got to move on, not that there is this one special person you have to fight for and get inorder to be happy.

Damn if Issa and Lawrence didn't mess over a lot of people just to end up back together. I mean she was right to curb Nathan because that dude was insecure and was just to quick to bounce which shit got even slightly rough, but there was so many scenes where they would show up with their new boo but then keep looking at their old thing...it ain't right.

I do have to say I was happy the way Molly turned it around. Couldn't stand her last season. I've said before some times you need to get your heartbroken thoroughly before you learn how to actrite. Between that and her Mom Molly seemed to show the most personal growth on the show.

My wife and I both had a phase (like 20s to early 30s) where it was about our friends and that all changed when people started having babies and moving to different cities. The last episode caught that change pretty well. It also captured that transition when career finally starts to make sense.

Anyway, good run. I was entertained....but damn they did Condola wrong.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

its awesome for a night when you meet someone hurt by their ex who wants to “get them back” but the days and weeks that follow are pure fuckery.

and Lawrence tried to get back with Condela but its a bad idea to try to make it work with someone you don’t love “for the baby”

We saw the arguments and energy they were putting out around that baby. He doesn’t deserve that shit.

having a oops-a-baby ain’t gonna bring a dude back.

I think back to the time my wife and I broke up before we were married. We weren’t any good for anyone else.. just using people to try and get that old thing back.

But yes.. they did a lot of people mad dirty. Imagine if they actually followed all the women Lawrence was smashing while he was single with a good paycheck.

and Issa was just as bad if not worse because she stayed telling people they were being used anytime they asked wtf was up.

Issa put a TON of black folks on with this show. beautiful to see the full story of how it came together.

https://www.hbo.com/movies/insecure-the-end

immediately followed by the doc, last week. I honestly enjoyed it more than the show. It really hit me, for some reason, when Jay Ellis was talking towards the end and just burst into tears.

As we got close to the finale, my girl started hoping that Issa would end up without Nathan or Lawrence but still fulfilled by where she was in her life. I think that could have been a strong ending.

But I also think that lots of people wanted the happy ending that the show gave us. I got to the point where I was rooting for Issa & Lawrence. I wanted them both to have happy endings even if they didn't end up together.

Either way, I ended up really appreciating this show. I kinda wish that I was in their age range while it was on. I've been through a lot of the same ups & downs that they dealt with but I'm from the generation before them. I think I would have felt this more if I was an early 30-something. But still, it was great.