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Forum nameGeneral Discussion
Topic subjectI don't think this is the right question and it opens up harmful argument
Topic URLhttp://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13443739&mesg_id=13444552
13444552, I don't think this is the right question and it opens up harmful argument
Posted by auragin_boi, Wed Oct-13-21 10:47 AM
>RE: How do you "disagree" with who and what someone is?
>What is there to disagree with, exactly?

People disagree with who and what people are all the time. I disagree with bigots but that's who and what they are. I disagree with people who think LeBron is the GOAT but that's who and what they are. I disagree with a lot of conservative politicians but that's who and what they are. I disagree with pedophiles but that's who and what they are.

The better question is, "What harm does it inflict on someone personally to 'live and let live'?

But even the answer to that is a slippery slope when speaking about living in a society/community as people will disagree with what's best for a society/community.

I think the toughest hurdle for Trans people to leap is the 'born this way' sentiment. For LGBQ's it's easier for a binary to understand, "I'm wired this way, I love what I love and I can't explain it the same way a hetero person can't...it's just who they are attracted to". I also think there's been some significant scientific research into homo/bi/fluid sexuality as well which gives it some scientific validation.

A Trans person remixes that entire thought. It's, "I was born this way but it doesn't feel right. I should be different." Most people/binarys don't have that experience. Black people don't eventually feel "I should have been born white". LGBQ's don't feel "I should have been born straight", etc. It's not seen as a fundamental building block to their biology. I think the Trans movement falls in line with the LGBQ movement because it's non-binary/different but their journey is much, MUCH different from others. Which, IMO, makes it harder to understand.

I think a binary views it as more of an external change based on preference, not biological wiring. And that's based on their own experience. Someone doesn't like their nose or think it should have been different...nose job. Someone feels they should not go bald and should have hair...hair treatment. Someone feels their breast/butt/penis isn't the size they'd like it...enhancement/reduction. I should have lighter skin...bleaching. I should have darker skin...tanning.

I should have been a woman/man...hormones, surgery to be so.

^^^This gets reduced to...a lifestyle choice vs internal biological wiring like an LGBQ person. Some trans people change gender and are attracted to the opposite gender, some to the same gender. So it's not about biological sexual orientation. And I think that's the part most binarys can't understand and may disagree with.

The same way some people don't agree with altering ones body/appearance via surgery.

Identity is tricky to discuss, understand and normalize because it can open the door to 'any' feeling of identity. For example, Rachel Dolezal. Who's to say her feelings of black identity weren't valid? If she took steps to actually look/be who she felt she was...are her feelings of identity not valid?

Should society just let that ride? Is the only reason we shout it down due to America's historical mockery of Black people via Black face? I'm sure most White people didn't care but Black people were offended by her feelings of identity and the efforts she took to realize them. Would that not fall in line with biologically born women feeling something similar towards trans women and bio men towards trans men? Should their feelings about it not be considered? Or should we all live and let live? Should people be able to transition to whatever they identify as, love who they are wired to love, without judgement, opinion, boundary? What does that society look like? Where do we set standards or draw lines to say 'that's too far'?

Identity vs Biology will always make this a hard convo but it's one worth having. We shouldn't all dismiss each other's feelings for the sake of 'live and let live' because how, the singular "we", all live, definitely has an impact on how, the pluarl "we" all live.