Lizzo caught all sorts of hell for taking a picture with Chris Brown and calling him her favorite.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/lizzo-called-chris-brown-her-favorite-personand-fans-arent-happy

I was reading the tweets and didn't realize that there will still this much hate for him. I say this as a person who really hated him for a long time after the Rhianna assault but it seems to me that he has managed to stay out of trouble for a long time after and there was no reason for me to still hate him seeing how Rhianna had forgiven him.

Aside from that the man has been working with everyone (men and women) and has consistently put out good music while staying out of trouble.

So I am wondering with Chris Brown on the radio all of the time are R&B fans really still mad at him or is it just mainly white writers who don't listen to R&B at all still beefing?


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

And just because Rihanna forgave him, doesn't mean much, honestly.
Victims "forgive" perpetrators all that time. Shit, we see black mothers and families in the courtroom all the time talking about how they forgive the people who have wronged them. That's for them, not for us.

Bogus. He certainly makes himself an easy target and is a bonehead for keeping people around him that gets him into some of these situations, but it has been surprising how some of the biggest headlines regarding his wrongdoing fade away under further investigation.




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

I know he was young and dumb with his shit
But he beat the hell out of that woman and rather than that be the turning point in his life he want on to harass and stalk that other woman all across the internet
I haven’t checked in with him in years. But he came up in a video recommendation with Drake of all people and I can’t help but feel both of them are irredeemable.

"Irredeemable" is a heavy AF term. I don't even think murderers are irredeemable. Why these guys to you?



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

What purpose would that serve me?

And Id also add that Im not particularly religious so redemption has dictionary connotations to me and little else.

Drake has behavior in public that I wouldn’t want my son to model or my daughter to appreciate.
That’s outside of the young women and grooming.
Aside from that he makes some decent music that I can rock with but as far as a person he’s not someone that’s demonstrated public growth relative the grooming or being a bit of a creeper.

As far

not doing.

>What purpose would that serve me?
>

You don't see the similarities to your take and white folks take of George Floyd, Freddie Gray, et. al were criminals?





>And Id also add that Im not particularly religious so
>redemption has dictionary connotations to me and little else.
>
>
>Drake has behavior in public that I wouldn’t want my son to
>model or my daughter to appreciate.
>That’s outside of the young women and grooming.
>Aside from that he makes some decent music that I can rock
>with but as far as a person he’s not someone that’s
>demonstrated public growth relative the grooming or being a
>bit of a creeper.
>
>As far

Is the grooming stuff largely based on him texting Millie Brown?



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

I don’t have any need to find good in strangers that have caused harm to other people

Im not talking about legality. Just harm. Serves me absolutely zero benefit.

The Millie Bobby wasn't the first

the Perfect Victim narrative before being able to empathize with them.

>I don’t have any need to find good in strangers that have
>caused harm to other people

If you need a person who has never caused harm to anyone else before you can empathize with them, then there aren't a whole of strangers, including black folks, who you wouldn't empathize with.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

like James Brown, then it's hard to not seeing other people doing it for other artist.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

and that’s fine

but don’t lie and act like what CB did was so bad while the next cat gets a pass due to the quality of the music.

That in exactly what other people are doing with CB or any other artist with shitty behavior.

I think it was David Bowie who passed and someone brought up his underage shenanigans and people on here actually said “it was one time and it was so long ago”

just goes to show its mostly about when it happened and not what happened.

But his mission in life was to advocate for good and betterment
Most separate the man from the negative to take his core message forward
And then others don’t
Outside of making okay pop music what’s Chris Brown’s core message in life?

What’s Chris Brown’s “Im Black and Im proud”
Who is Chris Brown’s Michael Jackson, or Prince, or Bootsy, or Jimi?
Chris Brown doesn’t even have a Joe Tex

I just need it to have a nice beat and a catchy hook

I don’t really do deep dives into the personal lives of artist so I’m sure I have a nice amount of songs I like that are from shitty people.

I know CB because of two songs and a cameo in a movie he died in early
Y’all know him as so much more than that
To me, CB beating the brakes off a woman and then not publicly changing his behavior towards women holds more cultural sway than the two singles I know him from.

between an artists art and their personal lives.

I think we all do it but most folks aren't willing to admit.

I disagree with you that there is some objective way to go about doing this balancing act.

Again, the value of art is subjective. You like what you like and some people you like enough to overlook their terrible personal lives.


But you doing Simone Biles levels of gymnastics when you start asking stuff like what is Chris Brown's core message in life. LOL.




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Subjectively, to me, the life and contributions of Chris Brown I could do without.

kinda odd that you are shocked or wondering how people haven’t forgave him.

I’m one of those people who separate artist from their work though.

always trips me out when people boycott these new young artist but still play James Brown and other older artist who had shitty personal lives.

It seems like a huge stretch to talk about him and his faults in the same vein of James Brown

and Chris Brown (no relation) through different prisms of art versus personal life.

Either we admit we are doing the cost-benefit analysis of the value of an artist's art versus the terribleness of their personal life or we do these Gymnastics where somehow a twenty-five year old who grew up on Chris Brown is somehow doing something different from a 40+-year-old who gives James Brown a pass.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

James Browns music was foundational and what he contributed to Black people and the music industry is generational.
What has Chris Brown contributed to the world to be considered more than an ok singer than can dance a bit?

I think you overvalue fame and celebrity.
Because if Mario had done half the shit Chris Brown does nobody would be in here talking about his ass in anything more than ambivalence.
So Chris Brown’s celebrity, which is whatever, is the driving force behind any emotion behind him.

All to say I don’t hate the guy, I just don't stomach him.

For his generation and his type of R&B there is Usher than Chris Brown and that's it.

That being said I am also completely aware that taste in music is highly subjective so I wouldn't waste my breath trying to convince anyone how uniquely talented I think Chris Brown is.

I also know that there is a direct relationship between appreciation of Chris Brown and Chris Brown Love/Hate. That is, everyone who hates Chris Brown is sure to hate or are indifferent to his music. Vice Versa, folks who love Chris Brown's music have also found a way to look past his transgressions.

What's more interesting thing for me to think about is whether its causation or simply co-relation. Is my or any other fan's appreciation of Chris Brown's music the reason we look past the transgressions and/or the fact that the biggest haters of Chris Brown don't listen to his music.

I think about it because what I see online is that there is this tendacy for people to call for the cancelling/boycotting of things that they have no interest in in the first place. I bet 75% of the people who called for boycotting the NFL were not watching the NFL prior to that. I think you see the same thing about Chris Brown. I a lot of people who seem to be writing the most about how terrible Chris Brown don't seem to listen to much new Pop R&B. I mean you mention Mario, but that dude hasn't had a hit in like 15 years.

That's why the Lizzo thing is interesting to me. Of course, she is a Chris Brown fan so of course she wants to take a picture with him.



>James Browns music was foundational and what he contributed
>to Black people and the music industry is generational.
>What has Chris Brown contributed to the world to be considered
>more than an ok singer than can dance a bit?
>
>I think you overvalue fame and celebrity.
>Because if Mario had done half the shit Chris Brown does
>nobody would be in here talking about his ass in anything more
>than ambivalence.
>So Chris Brown’s celebrity, which is whatever, is the
>driving force behind any emotion behind him.
>
>All to say I don’t hate the guy, I just don't stomach him.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

but when he came out there was JT, Usher and CB.. and CB looked like he was up next.

Someone at work just asked me about Kellz. Even when he was hot I wasn’t much of a Kellz fan but if Body’s Callin Me comes on best believe I’m sangin that shit.

he was about to be in that number 1 spot for a minute.

James Brown was foundational because of hip hop..

the point stands. Either you keep the same energy for all artist or you are simply being a but hypocritical if certain artist get a pass for beating women while Chris has to bw held to the fire for eternity.

I’ve gone a long long time not knowing dude outside of “Yo” and “Run it” and that was before all of the other stuff.
And it’s not that I don’t listen to music.

without adding all the other shit to it in order to not enjoy it.

How can you lead with CB’s ass beating but put another artist ass beating on the back burner simply based on the quality of the music?

I think you are admitting that an artist quality of music trumps their personal
lives..

I believe most fans who enjoy music are hypocritical and won’t stop listening to their favorite songs simply because they did some shit IRL that was shitty.

Unlike R Kelly, who's catalog is now forever tainted, it is possible to enjoy the content of a Chris Brown song without thinking of his personal life.

If you like his music, you're buying into the fantasy he's spinning with his performance to some degree. As long as that fantasy doesn't lead you back to the reality of his personal life, it's easy keep them separate.

'Hate' for Chris Brown has merit.
It's odd that this post is going up on the heels of R. being convicted
Speaking for myself...
I'm not a fan of his music
I see a child star that encountered child star issues
and is now an adult that continues to surround himself by possible triggers
Feels like you want people to support this damaged human being because he can dance and sing real good (in your opinion)
I see trauma...no hate.

You also present your argument as a false choice between authentic R&B fans or white out of touch with da real journalists
There's so many other options and touch points in between to consider.

if i hear his songs...just switch off
its not like he is at the top of anything and hard to avoid

His haters, fans and Rihanna herself have moved on.

i think he has a lot of demons from being a child star.

i think he still does stupid, fucked up shit (see: Karrueche).

but i also think he's growing - i think fatherhood mellowed him a lot.

and, i also think, in most cases, people can course correct, learn from their mistakes, and become better people. not everyone has to be cancelled.

so, that's kinda how i look at dude. he's a super talented, flawed person, which, unfortunately, seems pretty common in his sphere. i generally REALLY enjoy his music and hope that he figures it out outside of music.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

that's one.

like twenty plus years after a tape of him clearly pissing on a child went viral


that does not count


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

Kinda like MJ, he was such a big part of people’s childhoods that it hurts to not be able to forgive.

Rihanna fans of every other color will hate him forever. A podcast I used to listen to would completely derail when his name was mentioned. I equate it to people still hating Mike Vick for his involvement with those dogs.

Apart from Kiss Kiss, which I think is a banger and a half, he just isn't for me. I do like some shit where he's a guest, but he's never been someone I checked for.

But I'm all for people choosing who they do and don't fuck with for pretty much any reason.

I also don't expect anyone to be consistent with that, because I think the decision to stop fucking with someone is, for most people, more complex than people seem to think.

The list of artists I like with problematic shit on their resume is long as fuck. It's pretty hard to be a Dre Stan like I am, and say word one about another artist because of their domestic violence indiscretions. I don't think I always saw it that way though, and Im not even consistent with that now.

I think Kells has largely earned a full scale cancelation, even if it means I don't listen to Happy People anymore. I think he turned out to be a full blown monster to such a degree that I'm legit puzzled when he got played at my brother in laws wedding a few months back.

Meanwhile, I love the Cosby show and have no problems with it. There's some nitpicking rationale there for sure, but it's still inconsistent.

I'm not mad at anyone who canceled Chris, and Im not really trippin on anyone who didn't, unless they're defending the act itself.

who has to hate him, he just isn't relevant.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

just like celebrities don't need to be made into good people to begin with

clearly his career has moved on and nobody is stopping him from being successful

but to think we all have to love him now? for fucking what? that's weird

do people still hate him now. The answer could be as simple as the Rhianna Assault.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

from the artist who made the very pro-woman anthem, "These hoes ain't loyal".

>from the artist who made the very pro-woman anthem, "These
>hoes ain't loyal".

And it seemed so crazy and such bad taste to drop a song like that so soon after the Rihanna Assault.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

I got to be honest. My wife never stopped playing him. But I didn't fully come back around to him until No Guidance, fully.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

yeah.. he definitely didn’t try the gospel album angle

but I thought it was interesting that Brown and Rhianna both went “darker” after this incident

felt like that incident gave them room to grow into their true identities creatively

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

About US.

but I get it

sometimes when you arent a fan of someone you dig for thru their shit and take notes

I don't even care. I just don’t see myself extending grace to folks that don’t publicly ride for the folks
And whether its this dude or Kells or Cosby or Kanye or the NFL … there’s a weekly post here imploring us to overlook whatever negative press someone is getting

who have mattresses on their floor

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

Men are definitely not his audience