Cause right now they may be fucked. Posting this after the recent jobs report is missing projections by a mile.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

It's really that simple
Move as a unit
Give us the impression you're actually a team
They're still beefing with Munchkin and Cinnamon
Rs get their agendas enacted... even though they're the wrong agendas
Ds stay stuck on incompetent
DC/PR statehood...?
Expanding the SC...?
Eliminating the filibuster...?
Gonna f around and lose their slim majority w/o doing $hit...again
Play ball or primary these sticks in the mud.

The voters want voter protections. 72% of the country supports abortion.

We are dealing with a trillion simultaneous repub-caused crises. Need to act now. Or the midterms won't even really matter, they will be a formality.

Don't be afraid. Need to talk abolishing the filibuster. Need to talk packing the courts. Stop living in fear of the minority party.

Where I think all Dems can or want to do is fundraise off this shit.


Biden/Dems had a nice little honeymoon and a ton of momentum from 1/6 that they could have gone bold as fuck and it would have worked.

Even some moderate GOP were scared for their lives that day. I know some a-political folks and some R leaning folks (neighbors) who were fucking disgusted.


The iron was hot...and they didn't strike.


Biden and Chuck should have strongarmed mod dems 6.5 months ago.


Now Biden's polls are underwater and I'm getting "donate to stop the SC!" emails and shit.

Well...fuck you. I donated plenty the last few years, etc. After a while people get burned the fuck out on helping an institution that doesn't help itself.


If you are going to get trashed in the mids anyway, pack/"reform" the fucking court. Pass voting rights. Stop arguing with each other over infrastructure. Etc.

Get crushed because you were too bold rather than get crushed because you were scared you would get crushed.


I simply cannot believe and am fucking disgusted that 4 years of Trump, stolen SC seats, and a MOTHERFUCKING COUPE ATTEMPT didn't wake these fucking people up.

>I simply cannot believe and am fucking disgusted that 4 years
>of Trump, stolen SC seats, and a MOTHERFUCKING COUPE ATTEMPT
>didn't wake these fucking people up.

We're dealing with like 15+ simultaneous, major crises all caused by the minority party and electorate, have control of all 3 branches of gov't, and have done next to nothing to solve any of the real crises.

Infrastructure is important and I support it. But the crises need way more imminent attention.

Dems as a party are happy being this moderate "feel good" option for centrists in America

by not touching the filibuster or packing the courts or really doing much of anything while they have power, they are showing you they are just here to make the mega donor class happy (tech, military and pharma)

But the question was what do they *need* to do lol so I answered in kind.

You're right. And we're fucked.

It seems like they are always negotiating with themselves.

They need to do something that people can see. The stimulus (particularly the child tax credit) was good. But they need more things to point at to give contrast to republicans and give people a reason to come out.

midterms are always ugly for the party after a Presidential victory.

I read there are 10 million job openings right now.

and every time I go out to eat I’m being told they are short staffed.

Part of me wonders if more people have died from Covid then are being reported because everyone is short right now.

but if I was making more on unemployment than at a new gig why would I get a job?

covid has caused people to have a real reckoning with themselves, and with the capitalist system.

i know TONS of people who have used this as motivation/opportunity to leave the "rat race" and get it on their own via their passions.

i'm *THIS* close myself. i can't wait.

They should be making moves to minimize the damage.

I'd argue they could actually buck trends and not get destroyed at all, but that isn't my point here.

"nothing we can do about it, so....lets do nothing to try and stop it"?

At the very least...if they are going to get crushed...start acting with fucking urgency.


If the situation truly is their days of unified government are numbered and there is absolutely nothing they can do about it, then make these next few months fucking count.


Plus the situation isn't just '22. Its if they don't wake the fuck up they may not have unified government again for a fucking decade.



As far as blaming the jobs on unemployment, cmon man. That has been debunked. There are over half a million people who are out of the workforce because they died of fucking COVID.

Probably families who are grieving and not going back.

Plus people questioning the rat race, not wanting to go work at a fucking restaurant and catch COVID, etc.


It is not unemployment.

>
>They should be making moves to minimize the damage.
>
>I'd argue they could actually buck trends and not get
>destroyed at all, but that isn't my point here.
>
>"nothing we can do about it, so....lets do nothing to try and
>stop it"?
>
>At the very least...if they are going to get crushed...start
>acting with fucking urgency.
>
>
>If the situation truly is their days of unified government are
>numbered and there is absolutely nothing they can do about it,
>then make these next few months fucking count.
>

I agree… push thru what you can while you can.


>Plus the situation isn't just '22. Its if they don't wake the
>fuck up they may not have unified government again for a
>fucking decade.
>
its hard to have a unified govt. Wouldn’t be surprised if it took that long.
>
>As far as blaming the jobs on unemployment, cmon man. That
>has been debunked. There are over half a million people who
>are out of the workforce because they died of fucking COVID.

I just said I believe more people have died than are being reported which could be impacting job numbers. How did you miss that?

>Probably families who are grieving and not going back.
>
>Plus people questioning the rat race, not wanting to go work
>at a fucking restaurant and catch COVID, etc.
>

Yup.. that is definitely part of it.
>It is not unemployment.
>
>
>
The OP just said the jobs report was the reason for starting this discussion.

why even try, I guess

I said it wont matter.

Otherwise they are toast.

Republicans are rigging the system, and they clearly have the supreme court on their side.

this shit scares. like…if it doesn’t pass, they need to educating folks on how to vote with these new laws in place.

let me see the playbook…

They legitimately do represent a much broader and more diverse group of voters than Republicans. That presents more messaging challenges than the GOP has. Not insurmountable challenges, and I’d like to see them be bolder, but still.

But they CAN do everything in their power to make sure that their broad constituency actually CAN vote for them. That’s the glaring opportunity they’re fumbling.

The majority of the country is centrist/liberal. Repugs/conservatives are the clear minority. But they've stacked all the decks via the SC, gerrymandering, voter suppression, etc.

The only way to truly ensure that the majority party continues to win elections and be able to move this country forward and solve problems and actually fucking govern, is to pass voting rights legislation.

Everything else can be taken care of after that. Because if voting rights aren't passed, they won't ever have the *opportunity* to pass anything else ever again. Because they'll never be in power.

"The majority of the country is centrist/liberal. Repugs/conservatives are the clear minority."


https://news.gallup.com/poll/328367/americans-political-ideology-held-steady-2020.aspx


More people Identify as Centrist/Conservative and what people self identify as centrist most people here would see as conservative.




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Sorry - should've been more specific/clear.

Anyway I'll find some sources about this. I was just reading about it a couple of weeks ago and have seen a ton of data on it before as well.

In essence the point of what I was reading was that a good portion of the 35% who identify as "moderate/centrist" in the data from your post are people who support, for example, reproductive rights, voting rights, common sense gun control, etc. But they may "identify" as centrist because they consider themselves "fiscally conservative" (for example) or some other type of conservative (pro police, as another example).

I also find that the majority of people I know who identify as "moderate" or "centrist" don't understand and/or actively follow US politics and therefore identify that way to avoid confrontation or difficult conversations. And I know this because when I dig a little deeper with these people, I tend to find that their positions on actual policy would more accurately be described as "liberal" or "progressive" even if they don't outwardly identify that way when asked. This is, of course, anecdotal - I'm just using this example to illuminate my larger point above about what I was reading recently.

So while you're absolutely right that many people who identify as "centrist" are more conservative than *me* or us on this board, that wasn't my point. Especially considering that most of us here, I would imagine, identify as "liberal" or "progressive/leftist."

My point was that common sense repro rights, voting rights, gun control, etc. laws appeal to the clear majority of the country, including a majority of those (the 35%) who identify as "centrist." At least the way I understand it.

I'll find the link. But I think we're both right here, just parsing the details.


>"The majority of the country is centrist/liberal.
>Repugs/conservatives are the clear minority."
>
>
>https://news.gallup.com/poll/328367/americans-political-ideology-held-steady-2020.aspx
>
>
>More people Identify as Centrist/Conservative and what people
>self identify as centrist most people here would see as
>conservative.
>
>
>
>
>**********
>"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then
>they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
>
>"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

"Only when factoring in independents' leanings do Democrats enjoy a true edge over Republicans in national support, 48% to 43%.

But party ID doesn't tell the full story on the nation's political will, as there are ideological crosscurrents. While most Republicans identify as conservative, a quarter hold moderate or liberal views. And Democrats exhibit even more heterogeneity, with close to half identifying as moderate or conservative and the slight majority identifying as liberal."

national politics. People vote for the candidate that they most identify with.

Elizabeth Warren had the best policies and it gets her nowhere. People really do vote for the candidate that they want to drink a beer with.

That's why I want the next Dem Presidential Candidate to be a Southern White Male who happens to support the policies of Elizabeth Warren.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

>national politics. People vote for the candidate that they
>most identify with.
>
>Elizabeth Warren had the best policies and it gets her
>nowhere. People really do vote for the candidate that they
>want to drink a beer with.
>
>That's why I want the next Dem Presidential Candidate to be a
>Southern White Male who happens to support the policies of
>Elizabeth Warren.

E-Dubs torpedoed her own campaign in my opinion, it wasn't so much that people didn't want to drink a beer w/her haha. Although I'm sure that plays a part, too. i.e. why Hillary didn't win in 2016. "Likeability"

Particularly a strong number of centrists and conservatives of color. It's not that black people are overwhelmingly liberal; it's that a lot of black conservatives will not vote for Republicans. Other POC to lesser degrees than black folks, but still a sizable number of conservatives/centrists of color voting for Dems over Republicans. Their ideologies don't line up with party voting as closely/neatly as white voters.

Add to that the fact that more policies enjoying popularity across the board are in the Dems wheelhouse than the GOP, and they NEED to work on voter protections.

>Add to that the fact that more policies enjoying popularity
>across the board are in the Dems wheelhouse than the GOP, and
>they NEED to work on voter protections.

https://ballotpedia.org/The_Republican_Party_Platform,_2020

El oh fucking el.

In terms of turnout and gives them an issue to push to the suburban women and independents.

When the Dems base comes out and voted we win.

https://youtu.be/Lg8Oq_Sd3Bw
Gonna f around and let Rs pass legislation making it illegal to be a D, think for yourself or pay for air to breath or some $hit
Seriously...TF are they doing?

Make it stop.

...when you control the White House, House, and Senate. I can see the enthusiasm for mid-terms being so low the Republicans take back both.

>RE: Letting Repubs take away voting and abortion access is not a good look.
>...when you control the White House, House, and Senate. I can
>see the enthusiasm for mid-terms being so low the Republicans
>take back both.

And take over the Texas state legislature

Obviously the mid-terms would be a judgment on the fact that Democrats cant even come together when they have all three bases of power to pass legislation and also eliminate the filibuster. Which would allow them to enact federal law protecting climate change, voting rights, etc. The kind of voter suppression and gerrymandering that leads to legislatures and governors that pass these kinds of laws.

But sure, i bet you chuckled to your about the "send in the army" line because you thought it was witty.

.

Having facts on your side and losing debates = incompetent
Having the power of the white house, senate and house on your side and these policies going into effect = complicit

TF are they doing

Everyday it gets worse...and they do nothing.

from passing this law?

no shade.. just asking.

Expand the SC
and eliminate the filibuster

Sen Rs are stalling the voter rights bill
and IMO, Comey-Barrett and Kavanaugh committed perjury in their confirmation hearings when asked about challenges to Roe V Wade
I specifically remember Comey-Barrett's reply...'no, that is settled case law."

People do realize TX is a tester...more states are now going to enact the abortion ban and voter suppression laws

...while Ds are still in-fighting and trying to reach across the aisle...

It's f'n insane...but yeah, we know what needs to be done

I believe the Justice Department can strike down both laws as violations of the 9th and 14th amendments

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a37502841/merrick-garland-challenge-texas-abortion-law-justice-department/

The bigger issue IRT the midterms...how many elections do we have to see the same result?
There are options...they're choosing not to do anything.

filibuster or expand the SC, what exactly do you expect or want to happen? That Manchin and Synema be kidnapped and someone vote proxy for them?

Like I don’t understand ppl who are not grasping that these extremely fragile majorities in both chambers and in the senate you have two of your 50-50 split who are outright obstinate to any changes. Are people not understanding that? All I’m seeing is Dems are weak, they don’t want real change, it’s like you all just wanted to bitch and moan mindlessly? If so, say that lol.


Y’all seem mad that RepuGs get in lock step to the most dastardly and undemocratic shit and that when Dems can’t force that type of blind loyalty it’s fuck all Dems.

Make it make sense.

But i recognize some of the same posters from prior general dem bashing so I am not surprised but it’s just weird.

When climate change and voting rights are under assault, dems would expect dems to do what it takes to protect these things. Instead, they basically do nothing. This is not as complicated as you are making it out to be. Some things are worth the nuclear option. Repubs know it, Dems apparently do not.

Have 50 votes. Read a book dummy

The whole point of what i wrote was the fact that Dems have the majority, 50 votes and a tie breaking vote. The "nuclear option" requires 50+ votes or 50 votes and a tie breaker. The fact that they have the majority but cant come together, like Republicans would, to protect vital rights with a nuclear option. Are you dumb?

Abortion, voting rights, and other dem priorities are massively popular nationwide with voters in both parties. If all it takes is convincing two asshole senators (including one who previously positioned herself as a progressive-leaning candidate) to get these incredibly important things done, an endless public pressure campaign should be ongoing from January 2021 through the 2022 midterms.

The fact that the WH, and most senators have been all but silent on these issues is fucking infuriating. Because if nothing is done, specifically in regard to voting rights, you can kiss a democratic majority (and democracy in general) goodbye literally forever.

What's weird isn't those asking dems to act with the sense of desperation that's required of this moment, in response to these crises. What's weird is people like you who are pretending that nothing can be done.

Every Biden admin official, Garland and every public-facing DOJ employee, every fucking senator with a brain, should be on TV *every single day*, should be sitting for national TV interviews *every single week*, about all this shit. Not an hour should go by without some major dem party member speaking publicly about these crises. Not a week should go by without Manchin and Sinema being called out *by fucking name* to step up in the face of these catastrophes. Embarrass them if you must. These are desperate times and so a desperate response is needed. Time is running out.

The fact that they're basically silent, and are seemingly doing the least they possibly can in response to this shit, is inexcusable.

Those senators. Ultimately that’s the only people they have to answer to. If you think everything you described would move either of them at all, you really haven’t been paying attention. Like at all.

Most of you are just ridiculously naive. Almost idiotically so.

What's their best course of action for keeping/building on their majority?

More importantly what WOULD be their best strategy for actually being able to push through POLICIES and get results for the Constituents who voted for them at the national level?

Those senators.

https://wvmetronews.com/2019/09/23/poll-two-thirds-of-west-virginia-voters-support-access-to-abortions/

https://thefulcrum.us/voting/manchin-for-the-people-act


https://www.prochoiceamerica.org/2020/08/24/strong-majority-of-arizona-voters-support-reproductive-freedom/

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/new-polls-suggest-broad-support-democrats-voting-rights-bills-n1277837

And even if you want to pick apart the polling, your official position here is that - because there are two moderate senators in red states who may not be movable - our hands our tied and we should just let democracy crumble ?! That's what you're suggesting ?

You're very naive about the imminence of all of this. Almost idiotically so.

And by the way go fuck yourself.

way to go about this.

Some of these guys are so entrenched in their little agendas, etc that they will literally excuse anything.


This is absolutely not what people stood in line in place like GA and AZ for.


This is not what people donated a bunch of money for.


And its also cute that a lot of these guys had fantasies of shit like flipping Texas blue like a year ago, and now suddenly the states that are actually blue are just too fragile.



I knew it was going to get bad when dude's couldn't even admit that the first few days of the Afghanistan withdrawal were a bad look....and instead went around screaming "fake news!"


We are what? 14 months away from getting our asses kicked and dudes will blame the media and fucking Russia or some shit.

Oh and voters. Dudes around here will blame voters.

Somehow the actual organization/party that we donate to, volunteer for, wait in line to vote for, etc etc is never accountable to anything.

... resorts to name calling because he's a useless child. And I'm aware that I'm now stooping to his level. But, fuck him.

I don't think anything I suggested in my response was all that extreme or irrational. I'm just suggesting that it's better to go down swinging than to just let this shit happen while dems have control of all 3 branches of gov't.

Why is it unreasonable to ask Biden, Schumer, Kamala, Nancy, et al, to get on a soap box and scream from the rooftops the importance of protecting voting rights in red and swing states, and protecting a woman's right to repro healthcare ? What is so out of bounds about that ??

And even if it doesn't work, so fucking what ? The worst that can happen from dems taking that approach is ... exactly what's *going to* happen if they do nothing.

I mean what the fuck are we talking about here.

Furthermore, moderate/centrist/independent voters in places like WV and AZ (and anywhere) can be convinced, too, if the dem leadership screams loud enough and presents their case well enough. Repugs do this shit about unpopular policies ALL THE FUCKING TIME. And they succeed. Because they have the balls to try shit.

So this fucking loser's cowardly, defeatist argument falls apart no matter which way you approach it. And he's an asshole about his ignorance on top of all of it.

You are fucking idiot.

>You are fucking idiot.

Fucking Sylvester Stallone over here.

On the internet like a lil bitch, im actually making shit happen.

All you mad and worthless political dunces, try to focus your energy on actually working for solutions then crying on Okp.

You people are dumb as a bag of rocks.

And will likely remain so.

>On the internet like a lil bitch, im actually making shit
>happen.
>
>All you mad and worthless political dunces, try to focus your
>energy on actually working for solutions then crying on Okp.
>
>You people are dumb as a bag of rocks.
>
>And will likely remain so.

As if people can't do both.

Speaking of stupid. You're on the internet too, dummy. According to your post count, double the amount I am. lol you fucking clown.

... of (allegedly) helping to flip GA blue, only to then be perfectly content when dems accomplish nothing of circumstance despite full democratic government control that you (allegedly) worked so hard to help them achieve lol.

What a strange way to go about your life.

just putting it out there before he does.. lol.

This is his m.o. anytime he is corrected.

some people are just miserable.

WTF happened to you man?


Being an unconditional Biden Bro is no different/better than being a Bernie Bro.


Stop treating this shit like an agenda to stack up Ws/ prove a hard-headed point on a message board.

And at this point, you're even worse because I don't recall any of the resident bros just calling everyone stupid, etc when they couldn't come back.

At least they just ghost.

Well, you kind of did ghost here-

https://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_mesg&forum=4&topic_id=13441134&mesg_id=13441563&page=

Bottom line is that the Dems (as in all Dems in power, including Manchin...and the leaders who need to convince him) need to do much, much more to even have a fucking chance to at least maintain their current power.


If that upsets you, then I don't know what to tell you other than to stop treating this like cheering for a fucking sports team or some shit.

.....while making yourself look like an absolute moron who lacks the ability to use reading comprehension. Lmao

It was bad when Bros did it, and it is bad when Dem apologists do it.

Most people in here understand your point- that Manchin, Sinema, and probably a few others are theoretical roadblocks.

Its easy to claim that and call us all idiots- but it isn't helpful nor is it even addressing the issue.

At the end of the day, those senators are DEMOCRATS.

So when a thread is started about what DEMOCRATS should do to avoid getting curb stomped, some of us responded.


This- by default- included all DEMOCRATS.

If you prefer we rephrase that if all DEMOCRATS INCLUDING MANCHIN don't want to get curb stomped, they should do A, B, C.

But I think most of us figured that is implied.

And if Manchin and Sinema want to keep a fraction of the power they yield right now, they should probably help make sure the Dems keep the senate- rather than actively work against their own party.



And, yes, it is abso-fucking-lutely on Dem leadership that those bozos aren't on board.

As part of their job is to coordinate a unified agenda. To lead.

GOP would not let a slim majority stop them.

And the GOP will absolutely nuke the filibuster if they need to next time.


So yeah man, this is on Chuck and Joe. Damn straight.

Whatever it takes to get them on board. I'm sure this is not the first time in the history of the country that a party had to get a couple moderates on board.

Raging pandemic. 1/6. Roe gutted. Voting suppression bills. Literal bodies piling up.

And very little from the Dems.

Instead, we have Biden telling folks need to "out-organize" voter suppression laws that mostly impact BLACK voters.

So, its on the very same voters and organizations that gave Dems their narrow majorities against all odds to come up with a way to do it for them again!??

Oh and they are trying to raise money off it. Perfectly Dem.


You love to clown the Bernie Bros- and I do too. But a big part of the clowning is how they make any and every excuse in the book for their side- never admitting faults, and ultimately, personally attacking folks who point them out.

That blind loyalty, agenda-fueled shit.


This is what you are doing in here.


Democrats- yes including Manchin, etc- are about to get fucking stomped if they don't do more.

If Biden, Chuck, etc can't get their party together...then its going to be fucking lights out.


Guys like you just making excuses for them and attacking anyone who dare question them aren't helping them.

Pretending things aren't about to get bad- or pretending Dems are helpless to stop it- only makes the situation worse.


We are only months away from a literal fucking attempted coupe, and we have dudes in here "b b b b but Manchin!"

FOH man.

>Those senators. Ultimately that’s the only people they have
>to answer to.
>
>Most of you are just ridiculously naive. Almost idiotically
>so.

thank you, laugh of the day

Subsequent to 1.6, and the continued threats to democracy and constitutional rights
If these 2 want to stand in the way and really stop this administration
Then let them stand up and be counted
Make them put their name on it
and enter them into the history books.

https://www.newsweek.com/joe-manchin-approval-rating-drops-senator-rebuffs-infrastructure-bill-1626963

What you don’t do is sit on your hands because of 2 people = complicit
What do you suggest?

Further, after posting something similar in OkaySports, let me address your condescending tone directly
There’s maybe…what…30 people that post regularly on this whole site
Calling people names and talking down to each other is not the way to facilitate an exchange of ideas
I would ASSume you’re also middle aged…grow up
We can have a back and forth…but you eliminate that possibility when you start insulting people
If you know it all, enlighten us, without the bull$hit
Do better.

Post-Clinton, the Dems exist to control the left.
They are not here to govern.

It'$ not an accident people thi$ "incompetent" and "Ineffective" somehow keep ending up positions of leadership for the Party that in theory is supposed to want to regulate business/protect workers/etc

and watch, when the republicans sweep the midterms, Biden is going to introduce all kinds of "progressive" proposals and legislation that has no chance in hell in getting through.

The good cop/bad cop schtick has been apparent for decades now, and I got no idea how folks are still buying it

post over.

The Dems are not real opposition. More like controlled opposition.

How can the Repubs, who are damn near racist/fascist/psychos be so competent and win damn near everything......win elections that count....do power moves that can't be undone for at least 20 years?

And the Dems, the party that represent logic/sensibility/humanity, be so incompetent and constantly fuck things up.......even the simplest shit? They crumble under damn near everything. No power moves, no nothing. They get very little done long term. They are a joke. They talk a good game but when it comes to actually getting something done, it is '....well, we were going to, but so and so keeps blocking us. we at least tried'

Pathetic.

push away lots of potential voters who are more moderate. Crime, especially violent crime, is on the rise, and the perception that democrats are soft on crime with catch-and-release tactics and being anti-police do not sit well with moderates (I know lots of them who explicitly tell me this).

As for gun laws, should people be swayed by a single issue such as "democratic gun laws" when there are many other important issues at stake? Probably not, but there are plenty of liberal gun owners who voted for Biden thinking he wouldn't try to go after non-sensical issues like pistol braces, but it's somehow an issue again. And these stupid gun laws just give fuel to conservatives, and they're not even wrong on this issue, because these gun laws don't have any real effect on violent crime and only affect law-abiding gun owners.

I think the abortion issues in Texas actually works in the dems' favor because it gives something for them to rally around.

to admit it.

You saw it play out in the NYC Mayoral election when Maya Wiley started talking about systematic roots of crime when asked about rising crime. Meanwhile Eric Adams was showing up at the scene of kids murdered by stray bullets and talking about it. He showed up the next day at the Bodega Murder that happened around the corner from my crib. Won't no one trying to hear about systematic roots of crime after someone has been murdered on their block.

There is no reason why a politician can't talk about criminal justice reform AND locking up violent criminals.

Dems shouldn't be meely mouth about what the outcome should be for the guy who killed his ex-wife at her baby shower. That mofo should be locked up and the key thrown away.

https://people.com/crime/pregnant-woman-killed-after-allegedly-attempting-to-break-up-a-fight-at-her-baby-shower-in-harlem/


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

pushes away even other liberals, not to mention moderates. Huge portion of my social network consists of immigrant and 2nd generation Asian Americans in the California Bay Area. They hear and see stories of repeat offenders free on the streets while anti-Asian crime in on the rise, and this is a region with dogshit gun laws where it pretty much impossible to legally conceal carry as well. Even fairly liberal-minded folks are starting to question exactly how liberal they should be voting (e.g., different sheriffs mean potentially different concealed carry possibilities).

Stores and pharmacies are closing down or moving out, and people are having their cars vandalized because of rampant theft. Proposition 47 meant theft under $950 and other drug-related offenses that would normally be felonies would be misdemeanors instead. Sounds somewhat reasonable because we don't want extremely harsh sentencing and punishment, right? Well, DAs don't bother to prosecute misdemeanors, and theft is now out of control because lots of shitty people now don't have to worry much about consequences.

And for what it's worth, I am considered solidly liberal in most regards, but I think the Democrats' stances on guns are absolutely stupid. In fact, I would argue that my position on gun rights are actually the ones that are liberal (not Democrat) and factor in the intersection of things like race, class, gender, sexual orientation, and so on. I don't think the federal government or states should be creating various laws and policies that make gun ownership more prohibitive from both a time and cost standpoint (just like voting rights). In my state, there are people that have been waiting over a year after their applications to buy a gun or conceal carry. This delay in them exercising their right is unconstitutional.

Who is affected by these gun laws the most? It's usually poor people, which ultimately disproportionately affects people of color. They can't afford guns and ammo, and if they can barely do that, they can't afford to properly train for their own safety handling the gun or in the worst case scenario use it for self-defense. Democrats' fear mongering about guns also makes lots of women fearful about guns, even though they are vulnerable to being victims of violent and sexual crime committed by men. Sexual minorities? They could also greatly benefit from exercising their rights in order to defend themselves from being victims. And let me just make it clear that I'm not some crazy person who is ultra-paranoid and thinks that it's just complete violence our here, nor do think I'm going to carry out some naïve hero fantasy with my guns. In fact, I know that the likelihood of myself ever having to use a gun in self-defense is fairly low, but a low likelihood does not mean I am willing to give up my rights, especially when bullshit like going after "pistol braces" is part of the Democrats' platform on guns that have no actual bearing on stopping gun violence.

When you're on the other side of the argument, you start to see that Democrats can be just as manipulative as the right and Republicans when it comes to language and framing arguments. Things like "weapons of war," "high-capacity magazines," "ghost guns," "gun show loopholes," and other bullshit terms are used to fearmonger but don't address any real issues that need to be worked on. It's mostly just an emotional response of nothing more than "guns are bad" and I don't like that kind of gun because it's a "scary big black rifle," all while ignoring root causes of gun violence and crime. I've found that some of the most vocal anti-gun people are honestly the most ignorant on guns and do nothing more than parrot Democrats' talking points, and it's just basically trying to impose their personal dislike of them on the rest of the population (sounds a lot like what the right and Republicans like to do on various issues).

I'm not going to vote for some crazy nutjob that doesn't believe in science, vaccines, and climate change, that hates various minorities (racial, sexual), is sexist, or that thinks unfettered capitalism is the solution to everything while ignoring structural inequalities just because they support my views on guns, but I'd be lying if I said I don't hate voting against my interests on guns and self-protection. And guess what? You're going to lose some people that are more moderate. They either won't vote or will vote for someone else, whether that be a liberal that supports gun rights (who unfortunately will probably not be popular among Democrats), maybe a Libertarian, or even a conservative/Republican if they see that as their only option to maintain/gain gun rights like Californians that want to be able to legally protect themselves.

And there ARE other people that are similar to me on the political spectrum and on the issue of guns:
Liberal Gun Club: https://theliberalgunclub.com/
Op-Ed from Killer Mike: https://www.colorlines.com/articles/black-people-must-embrace-second-amendment-op-ed
Liberal Gun Owners subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/liberalgunowners/

So yeah, keep thinking people like me or moderates are GOP members in hiding, because that's exactly the kind of shit that will fuck up any good Democrats could do on other issues. And if you want a more nuanced view on political beliefs beyond simply liberal vs. conservative, you can see a study by Pew on ideologies and how they can greatly vary within those categories: https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2017/10/24/political-typology-reveals-deep-fissures-on-the-right-and-left/

All those words for some "out of my cold dead hands" shit.

Someone threatens my life or my the life of my love ones? Yeah, out of my cold dead hands.

You sound like your new to this whole hate crimes thing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act

The majority of the country wants gun control
and you're out here pointing to fucking killer mike as a political guide talkin bout "don't tread on meh"

ignorant on guns. They most likely think "AR" means "assault rifle," couldn't discern between a clip vs. a magazine, and have some skewed perception of what weapons are being used and what constitutes "gun violence" deaths (the majority being suicides and with handguns). And why does Mike's opinion not matter? He's a minority gun owner that actually has experience with the tools he's talking. I don't like it when a bunch of old men in government committees who are tech-illiterate try to pass laws regulating the internet and technology. Same applies to guns. Or should I be listening to Joe Biden's suggestions on self-defense by shooting a shotgun through the door and committing a felony?

So what happens when this flawed appeal to the majority no longer holds up (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/09/13/key-facts-about-americans-and-guns/)? I'm willing to bet the number of support of this umbrella term of "gun control" will continue to drop as there's been an unprecedent number of new gun owners over the last year, which I'm sure includes many liberals. A much larger majority of Americans also oppose "defund the police." I guess that's a wrap, and a more nuanced approach to examining law enforcement in the country isn't necessary either.

I'm not saying "gun violence" isn't an issue, whether that be suicides, homicides, or whatever. I'm not saying various forms of "gun control" aren't necessary like keeping firearms out of procession out of (potentially) violent offenders or people with mental illness that can be a harm to themselves or others. What I am saying is that lots of Democrats' policies are extremely flawed, and yes, they can tread on rights.

If Roy Bryant and J.W. Milam showed up at Mose Wright's home looking for Emmet Till with only a pistol, and Mose Wright annd maybe came out on the porch with shotguns and rifles, it may have ended differently.

If you going to use black suffering to be snarky in an online political debate, think it through....or better yet, don't.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

to make a non-point about how much democrats need to be a pro-gun party... perfectly cool. Got it.

Shit, do SOMETHING.

We wont but that would be lovely

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

and peppering biden administration officials about any failures or shortcomings with the withdrawal.

if you dont wanna get crushed in the midterms...you prolly shouldnt keep your presidents biggest vulnerability (to date) in the news as long as possible and constantly dig for information that the opposition will most certainly use against you in their elections.

but leave it up to dems to benghazi *themselves* smh.

It's incompetence or complicity...to take an L to a political party with figure heads like Trumpster and Larry Elder

Looks like we have bigger issues than Munchkin and Cinnamon
They're not going to get $hit done
Incompetent and complicit

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/09/15/democrats-gop-reject-adding-medicare-drug-price-plan-budget/8349347002/

Democrats on key panel vote with Republicans to reject adding Medicare drug-price plan to $3.5T budget package
BART JANSEN | USA TODAY | 7:50 pm EDT September 15, 2021


Striking a deal with moderates, House Democratic leaders muscled President Joe Biden's multitrillion-dollar budget blueprint over a key hurdle Tuesday, ending a risky standoff and putting the party's domestic infrastructure agenda back on track. (Aug. 24)
AP
WASHINGTON – Three House Democrats on a key committee joined Republicans in rejecting a section of President Joe Biden's $3.5 trillion budget that proposed having Medicare negotiate drug prices, one of a number of contentious issues in a bill that is at the heart of the president's domestic agenda.


The Energy and Commerce Committee voted 29-29 Wednesday on whether to add language on Medicare negotiations to the $3.5 trillion legislation, which failed to include it as part of the overall package.

Democratic Reps. Scott Peters of California, Kathleen Rice of New York and Kurt Schrader of Oregon each opposed the strategy, saying it discourages the development of new drugs.

Another panel, the Ways and Means Committee, voted Wednesday to include Medicare drug negotiations in its portion of the $3.5 trillion package, so it could move to a full House vote.


But the vote signaled Democratic opposition to a high-profile portion of the package and reflected a major victory for drug manufacturers led by the advocacy group Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America.

Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., who heads the Budget Committee, voiced disappointment in the 29-29 vote in the House, but he expressed confidence the full Congress would approve drug-price negotiations.

"I understand that the pharmaceutical industry owns the Republican Party and that no Republican voted for this bill, but there is no excuse for every Democrat not supporting it," Sanders said. “The good news is that the full Congress must and will do far better."

Henry Connelly, a spokesman for House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., said polling consistently shows support for negotiating drug prices, "including overwhelming majorities of Republicans and independents who are fed up with Big Pharma charging Americans so much more than they charge for the same medicines overseas."


"Delivering lower drug costs is a top priority of the American people and will remain a cornerstone of the Build Back Better Act as work continues between the House, Senate and White House on the final bill," Connelly said.

Under the proposal, Medicare would effectively cap the amount it paid for drugs at 120% of the average price in Australia, Canada, France, Germany, Japan and the United Kingdom.

This would reduce the price of more expensive drugs in America and reduce federal spending by an estimated $456 billion over a decade, according to the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office.

House Energy and Commerce Chairman Frank Pallone, D-N.J., with Rep. Cathy McMorris Rodgers, R-Wash., right, the ranking member, as they continue work on the "Build Back Better" package, cornerstone of President Joe Biden's domestic agenda, at the Capitol in Washington on Sept. 15, 2021.
House Energy and Commerce Chairman Frank Pallone, D-N.J., with Rep. Cathy McMorris Rodgers, R-Wash., right, the ranking member, as they continue work on the "Build Back Better" package, cornerstone of President Joe Biden's domestic agenda, at the Capitol in Washington on Sept. 15, 2021.
J. SCOTT APPLEWHITE, AP
Democratic leaders in the House and Senate were optimistic the strategy could be approved because the $3.5 trillion legislation can be approved with straight majorities in both chambers. But with narrow majorities in both chambers, a few Democratic lawmakers can threaten any specific provisions.


“Medicare should be able to negotiate drug prices. Absolutely. We do so in Medicaid. We do so in the” Department of Veterans Affairs, Shrader said. “But we should not be using an international pricing index or an excise tax that is so harsh that it hardly qualifies as negotiation, as we’ve heard, and according to the Congressional Budget Office, it stifles innovation.”

Drug manufacturers are running ads, lobbying lawmakers and holding news conferences to warn about the pitfalls of negotiations.

A CBO study in August projected that negotiations based on foreign prices would lead to the development of two fewer drugs in the first decade and 23 fewer in the second decade.

“I hope my colleagues on both sides will consider a different approach, one that protects both our patients and our future,” added Peters, who said the life-sciences industry in San Diego County employs 27,000 workers at 1,000 companies.


Rep. Frank Pallone, D-N.J., chairman of the Energy and Commerce Committee, had pleaded with fellow Democrats to support the drug-pricing provision so that changes could be negotiated before the full House votes on the legislation.

“I don’t think we can fail the American people who are struggling under the crippling weight of astronomical drug prices that rise year after year. I really believe the current system is unsustainable,” Pallone said.

Pelosi had set Wednesday as a deadline for all committees to approve parts of the $3.5 trillion bill that are under their purview. Democrats leaders, including Biden, want to pass the full bill, which includes a number of liberal priorities, this fall.

>Another panel, the Ways and Means Committee, voted Wednesday
>to include Medicare drug negotiations in its portion of the
>$3.5 trillion package, so it could move to a full House vote.

itll be included in the final bill and none of those 3 will try to tank the entire package in a full house vote just because they oppose a portion of it.

theres a reason bernie is as confident as he is that theyll pass the drug negotiation proposal.

is a good look heading into the midterms?
I'm going to say being in the pocket of bid pharma is not a good look for the party

Instead of Rice... but I'm sure you knew that
Complicit.

https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/aoc-kathleen-rice-drugs/

After the 2020 election, when it was clear that the House as a whole and key committees in particular would be narrowly divided between Democrats and Republicans, House Democratic leaders were in a position to fill openings on committees with reliable progressives who could be counted on to embrace the bold agenda that the president and key senators such as Sanders were advancing. With the defeat in 2020 of New York Democrat Eliot Engel, a veteran member of the Energy and Commerce member, there was an opening for a representative from New York on the committee.

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New York Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez stepped up. As one of the party’s most prominent advocates for taking on Big Pharma, and a leading advocate for addressing the climate crisis—another focus of the committee—she was a natural choice. And AOC had the support of House Judiciary Committee chair Jerry Nadler, the senior member of New York’s Democratic delegation, as well as other key Democrats from the state.

But the House Democratic Steering and Policy Committee, the body that oversees committee assignments, passed over Ocasio-Cortez and chose Rice. The surprise move was pushed by Texas Democrat Henry Cuellar, the most conservative member of the caucus, who objected to the willingness of AOC and other progressives to support primary challenges to corporate-tied incumbents. In 2020, AOC endorsed Jessica Cisneros, a human rights lawyer who earned 48 percent of the vote in her challenge to Cuellar.


The steering committee overwhelmingly backed Rice, despite the fact that she had tangled with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and objected to progressive initiatives.

It was a fateful decision.

Had AOC been placed on the Energy and Commerce Committee, the vote for permitting negotiations to lower drug prices would almost certainly have been 30-28. This mess may yet be cleaned up with a manager’s amendment on the House Budget Committee, or by a decision to err on the side of the version of the broader bill approved by the Ways and Means Committee. But there are no guarantees, especially in a moment when pharmaceutical industry lobbyists are pulling out all the stops. One of the most popular pieces of Democratic agenda remains under serious threat.

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Christopher Morten and Matthew Herder

“There is no good reason, none, for any member of Congress to block pricing reform. There is especially no good reason for any Democrat, since voters elected Democrats specifically to deliver on promises to bring down medicine prices,” said Robert Weissman, the president of Public Citizen. “There are, however, many very identifiable, bad reasons for members to side with Big Pharma and against their constituents.”

Sanders summed up the bad reasons when he said Wednesday, “The pharmaceutical industry has spent over $4.5 billion on lobbying and campaign contributions over the past 20 years and has hired some 1,200 lobbyists to get Congress to do its bidding. They are the most powerful industry on Capitol Hill. Nonetheless, the American people are demanding that Congress stand up to them and finally lower the outrageous price of prescription drugs by requiring Medicare to negotiate with the pharmaceutical industry. Now is the time for Congress to show courage and stand up to the greed of the pharmaceutical industry. The American people will not accept surrender.”

The combative language is appropriate. This is going to be a battle.

What’s frustrating is that the House Democrats on the steering and planning committee sent a compromising centrist into the fight when they could have chosen AOC and the path of bold progressive resistance to Big Pharma greed.

fuck those 3 Dems..

damn savages

Ds had a 32-29 majority
I'm sure there's more than 3 elected Ds that are really moderate Rs
... also noticing how some criticize without making suggestions...
How many times are we going to watch the same movie

by mail... deadlines approaching
I move alot...$hit's different

Keep the focus on immigration
Directly feed their base with racist tropes, replacement theory, rising criminality, etc...
and directly contribute to the spectacle
I mean horseback LEOs whipping black immigrants...couldn't be a coincidence that is happening in TX...right?

The obvious D strategy would be tying the entire GOP to racist white supremacist domestic terrorism
...instead, we're getting headlines about infighting between progressive and conservative democrats...

If Ds can't move together as a unit and start enacting Biden's agenda...and go on the offensive with some of the stronger options...it's going to be a rinse wash repeat of 2010.

We're now dealing with a full on authoritarian, fascist party. So once they win it's gonna end up way worse than it did after 2010. Which is saying something.


>If Ds can't move together as a unit and start enacting Biden's
>agenda...and go on the offensive with some of the stronger
>options...it's going to be a rinse wash repeat of 2010.

But immigration is big enough issue in Boarder states to scare conservatives and turn off progressives with any effort to stem illegal immigration. They found their wedge issue for the midterms.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Iron dome is a defense system that shoots down Hamas rockets

Tlaib, Ilhan, etc those missiles to hit their targets more often. When did the Bros start following International News?

ahem

I didn't read everyone's but I am sure I am not the only one who stated it.

Longer term, we need to make sure it doesn't take anyone anywhere hours to vote. That's ridiculous. Also need more early voting.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/republicans-senate-2024-map/

Democrats must defend many Senate seats — some quite red in 2024