https://www.npr.org/2021/05/13/996582891/fully-vaccinated-people-can-stop-wearing-masks-indoors-and-outdoors-cdc-says

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says that fully vaccinated adults can safely resume activities indoors or outdoors without masks or distancing, in gatherings large or small. The announcement marks a major milestone in the effort to emerge from the coronavirus pandemic in the United States.

The new guidance was announced Thursday by CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky.

"You can do things you stopped doing because of the pandemic," she said.

The new policy is based on recent real-world studies from Israel and the U.S. in people who've been vaccinated, she said.

In response to a question, Walensky said the federal mask requirement in public transportation remains in force for everyone, vaccinated or not – including on buses, trains, airplanes and in stations and airports.

"For travel, we are still asking people to continue wearing their masks," Walensky said. She said the policy continues to be under review.

Unvaccinated people "remain at risk" of illness and death, Walensky said, and should remain masked and observe physical distancing.

The new indoor masking guidance follows a CDC announcement two weeks ago that fully vaccinated people do not need to wear a mask when they're outdoors unless they're in a crowd, such as attending a live performance, sporting event or parade.

People are considered fully vaccinated two weeks after receiving the second dose of the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines, or two weeks after the single dose of the Johnson & Johnson shot.

a lot more "over" to me personally because I have a 13 year old son. I got an appointment scheduled for him as soon as the FDA approved it and the CDC signed off. I also have a 7 year old, but it's sounding like ages 2 and up will be able to get vaccinated by this summer. So it finally feels like there's a light at the end of the tunnel.

It might not be SO weird where I live, but between podcasts and forums I wonder how some of the coastal states are going to react to a gradual reopening. Working in service, I honestly sort of worry that we'll make the decision that all of our staff has been vaccinated (we have) and the city/fed no longer has a mask mandate (our city lifts in two weeks) and even at the height of the pandemic we only had one staff member contract the disease in their free time at a friend's birthday party, so...

LOGICALLY, we probably become one of the first spots to stop requiring employees to wear masks, right? But is that the right move from a PR perspective? Would people walk in wearing a mask, see us not wearing masks, and leave? And how long are we gonna have to think about that? What if somebody really gets on their soapbox and tries to Gavin Newsome the whole staff?

I feel like a lot of people got psychologically damaged by the past 18 months and the CDC saying "get back out there!" isn't gonna be enough for them.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

CDC prolly gonna change that shit in a week.

I actually like wearing a mask inside but outside I really don’t see the point unless in a crowd.

It's no imposition on me to wear a mask, and I enjoy the added feeling of anonymity it provides.

I enjoy the anonymity as well, and you’re going to see a lot of people
continue to wear masks because of that very reason.

>It's no imposition on me to wear a mask, and I enjoy the
>added feeling of anonymity it provides.

.

I also hope that masks help with reducing the police states facial recognition software and videos.

thx but no thx

Now that we have 10 months of data this makes sense to do now.

These vaccines might literally be the most effective of any kind ever.

Lets hope it holds up!!

Now expect a slight surge from people who are not fully vaccinated to just lie about it for a while - but we'll get over that hump if the vaccines hold up!!!

The people won't have it

This is not a static situation - things can change.

IF the COVID rates SPIKE HARD now and stay up then they might change it - but I think it's unlikely to happen.

But this is about data analysis.

Imagine a new variant that the vaccine is not effective against (I hope that does not happen.)

Or the people who are not vacc'd lie and spred it GREATLY.

I'm watching the numbers - but nothing is certain.

But the data showing vaccine effectiveness is AMAZING to me - I'm so happy right now. I've been vaccinated FULLY for 5 months now and each month has given me more certainty.

great news!

I think this announcement today is more the CDC following public sentiment than the CDC following the data.

>I think this announcement today is more the CDC following
>public sentiment than the CDC following the data.

This is using the origianl trial participants, Israeli's studies and a new study on 5,000 domestic healthcare workers.

This isn't some shallow political grab by Biden/CDC like these goober ass governors have been doing. (Or at least it's not the way I understand it.)

I am looking for the study summaries, but I have hours of meetings coming up.

people start dropping dead immediately left and right like people sneezing.

we were seeing crazy numbers of close to 11k new cases per day. Now we’re at around 2000 new cases per day a few weeks later, and that’s directly related to vaccine availability. Early last month was when I got my first shot with the second a couple weeks later, and at time you still needed to be very strategic in finding a vaccination appointment. By the time of my second shot they were available everywhere, and by now a couple more weeks later the pharmacies and other sites are literally begging for people to come in and get vaccinated.

earlier this month. I feel like they had already received this information. We looked like aliens, going into places with masks on. Most employees weren’t rocking them.

I live in Jacksonville and the amount of people not wearing masks has been high the ENTIRE pandemic. Florida is just full of dumbasses.

Some of these folks still need masks for looks. I saw a lot of people in the warehouse this week that looked like non creepers until they took off the mask and showed their thin lips and weak jaw lines.

I can't speak for everyone here, but I've shit on people for not following CDC guidelines for the last 15 months. Now that they say this is fine, I have a hard time with the cognitive dissonance of thinking they're saying something wrong.

It's the CDC.

>I can't speak for everyone here, but I've shit on people for
>not following CDC guidelines for the last 15 months. Now that
>they say this is fine, I have a hard time with the cognitive
>dissonance of thinking they're saying something wrong.
>
>It's the CDC.

I'm just saying they know more than you and I.

>I'm just saying they know more than you and I.

I won’t argue against that, but they have pivoted on multiple issues throughout this, it’s understandable that some folks won’t take their word as law immediately.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/05/liberals-covid-19-science-denial-lockdown/618780/

I have friends like this who screamed "follow the science and CDC!" for nearly a year....until that science signaled an end to the Pandemic for vaccinated folks. I cant be hypocritical and separate their ignoring of science from Trump supporters doing the same.

Im a teacher so i'll still rock a mask at work because i havent caught a cold for the FIRST time in my entire career. But as far as the Rona, im vaccinated and will operate as if the vaccine works.

I don't trust how fast these folks are looking to expose people again with variants continuing to proliferate. We could be right back at square one.

I've been masked up, even 2 weeks post second shot. Never got covid, was very careful.

I get your question - but at what point are we going to stop worrying about what COULD happen? Thus far, with months of data, the vaccines have been effective against variants. I HATE to use the "It's only .XXX% of people to..." logic but in all honesty - when are we going to end the constant worrying?

wearing masks even though the swine flu was in 2009 and not nearly as bad

I'm going to say that for a lot of people it's never

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

But at THIS point it feels like that is totally fine as a personal choice. I’ll likely adopt it for plane rides, myself but if I CAN go massless in my day-to-day? I’m doing it.

And in the months since, haven't been on one.

I guess my feeling now is that close quarters with that many people for that long, without a place to get fresh air, etc feels a bit dangerous now. Which is definitely part paranoia, I'm sure. But a friend told me he'd adopted masks on planes before the pandemic and found it to be something that helped not feel dried out when he landed, so I'll give that a shot. If you feel refreshed after a flight while wearing a mask, I don't care if it's placebo - I need that.

This is somewhat based on my own situation, I guess. I want things to be "normal" like anyone else, but let's be real about it first. We very likely will hit 600,000 deaths in the near future. I want to see if Biden or the administration does a memorial then. I voted for him and this is all on 45's watch as far as I'm concerned.

I guess I mostly agree, and I think Biden has done - to say it lightly - a much better job than Trump. But all in all, our government completely failed us - obviously. I don't know where the memorials end - but at some point, I imagine there'd be a memorial when the pandemic is designated as "over" - otherwise, we're doing it every what...50k? 100k? It seems weird.

I think it's good to memorialize from the standpoint of remembering how stupid we were/are as a country. We have to do better and self shaming seems to be effective. This illusion of being infallible needs to end before we can do better. I hope these jokers in the CDC are right this time. ::Looks at India::

indicated otherwise?

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

What didn't make a lot of sense was the CDC previously tauting how effective the vaccine was, and also saying vaccinated people should continue to wear mask. I made it make sense that the reasoning was to encourage non-vaccinated people to continue to wear masks in public. Other than that, it didn't make a lot of sense from a medical perspective given what was being said about how well the vaccines work.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

it made plenty of sense


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

Same virus, less killing.

and I'm much less likely to spread the disease

I still don't want to get it

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

You wearing an N95?

and since I know how math works

I don't misread numbers to believe that "less than 100 percent protection"

equals

"no protection whatsoever"

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

Seems like you are >< this close to saying it was an overblown hoax.


You ok?

And there was a big concern about how to motive people to wear masks when people are selfish and care only about themselves?

Unless I'm behind on the latest science. Last I heard:

Plain cotton masks are effective at catching large droplets that get expelled and spread long distances from your mouth when you talk or breathe. Thus, stay distant and/or wear a mask.

But those masks aren't effective in filtering out tiny particles in the air. Those are still coming in and out. So unless you're getting directly spit on at close range, a cloth mask doesn't do much to protect the wearer.

Again, that is the last I remember hearing.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

when I don’t want to stop and talk to someone. I’ve got some Larry David in me. I will miss that aspect of mask wearing when it’s gone.

But thats just me.

people. Its almost footnote but they are saying the risk is the still the same for the unvaccinated.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

when people can go out without masks and lie about being vaccinated?

I'd guess most everyone who wants to be vaxxed is. The people who don't WILL lie. And I'm not sure how many people are on the fence. But if they're on the fence, they're there because they want to make sure the vaccine is safe, so they'll eventually get vaccinated if they feel it is.

Basically at this point - I'm not even sure the campaign for the vaccine is moving the needle. It's not hurting, for sure. But is it helping now while every adult can get vaxxed if they want to?

What difference does it make?

If someone is going to lie, no encouragement will push them to get it unless there is some mandate/verification. And I don't think we'll ever go that route

This is for those on fringe and hesitant. Those hardcore Trump supporters or anti-vaxxers are a lost cause. This isnt for them

Which is why I’m still masking and staying away from folks until my three year old can get a shot.

Did the CDC issue guidance that says otherwise?? Did I miss it?

My daughter wears her mask with no complaints. She is a human that speaks English so she understands "vaccinated and not vaccinated."

If we don’t wear ours, she’s less likely to feel comfortable wearing hers.

>My daughter wears her mask with no complaints. She is a human
>that speaks English so she understands "vaccinated and not
>vaccinated."



What a disappointing reply from a "teacher".

It is my profession. You doing air quotes takes nothing away from the fact that my job requires me to know how to get teenagers and kids to do the responsible thing, even if they don't like it. To imply that the mask ruling is somehow dangerous because kids cant get vaccinated is ridiculous. I explain to my kid why she cant use sharp knives, while using a sharp knife myself. There's all kinds of things adults do that kids cant. Or protection (knee pads, elbow pads, seat belts on swings, etc) that kids have to wear that adults dont. Stop trying to complicate a win for vaccines and science. "teacher"

Went to a restaurant. Ate outside. We both went inside to use the bathroom. She put on a mask and i didnt. It wasnt really a shot at you, it was a joke. But the original posters reply that its somehow irresponsible to say "you have the vaccine, no need for mask" because kids cant get it yet implies that kids or teens dont have the capacity to understand the idea of protection. When their entire life already revolves around things adults can do and kids cant.

these kids are not staying masked up and are testing positive left and right.

2 kids in my wife’s class were positive

and the chair of her department has a daughter who tested positive.

My kids are only 3 and 5 but when we go to the park and other kids aren’t masked, they run and ask if they can take theirs off.

While we want to believe kids will be responsible trust and believe when they are not on our presence the chances of them going with the crowd is high af.

I've had to be continuously creative to get the three year old to wear hers.
And I've had to listen to how she feels
Yes she's three, but she's a person, and she has her own feelings.

Sometimes she doesn't like when she's the only kid with a mask, sometimes the mask hurts, or it's too big, or too small, or the material is funny ... etc.

But I know the biggest thing to help her is me showing solidarity with her.

was trying to get my daughters to take their mask off.

“ask you dad if you can take it off”

little girl was a demon.. lol. She thought she was whispering:

“my dad says no all the time.. its what dads do. Tell your dad he needs to say yes if he wants you to say yes to him”

my daughter walked over to repeat what she just heard and try it on me.

me: “don’t let your little friend get you in trouble by repeating what you just heard”

wearing hers. And so my daughter naturally just kept letting hers off.
Any other time my niece wore it. But now that my parents got their shots and so did my sister ... I get why they don't do it around each other, that's recommended guidance. But we're all supposed to when it's the kids playing.

So I'll need to set up time where it's just my folks and my family, so they can get that face time in.

That's on whatever teacher or district your kid or the kids you referenced are a part of. In my district masks are mandatory. Teens can get suspended for not wearing a mask, repeated violations and they are sent to online home learning, and younger kids parents are called if their child is constantly found to not wear their mask.

they are definitely chilling without mask

and then they tell my wife about parties they attend, dance practice, etc..

Fucking brittle ass spirits.


And PS masks are most effective when worn by all parties. So even if you get your kids to wear theirs, you take them around idiots who wont wear theirs and not vaccinated, etc.

What subject do you teach? big yikes


Just be an adult and wear your mask a little longer.

..to have such an irresponsible and batshit crazy "teacher" must really suck :(

"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

transportation but you know people will not want to and it will be a mess and a major problem for workers trying to enforce that.

Horse before the cart IMO

This announcement feels more like motivation to get vaccinated than science

+1, terrible timing with the India variant

Until we’re at 70%/herd immunity...I ain’t buying it (c)

that it's going to be much higher

https://open.spotify.com/episode/6oLd5OLSw6jFAtaS7LcyCi?si=e30fcebe06824012


----------

IG @erichrigonan

<shrug>

If you’re not comfortable taking your mask off yet that is totally
Ok. Coming out of this is going to be really weird for everyone and we need to respect everyone’s own individual levels of personal comfort.

But people saying the CDC is wrong crack me up. Literally none of us are more qualified than the CDC. If the CDC doesn’t do it for you what will?

Point is - everyone wanted to follow CDC guidelines on hand washing and mask wearing and distancing , but when they say the fire is actually out people who aren’t at all credentialed say it isn’t. I don’t understand that at all but I do understand if YOU or anyone else isn’t yet comfortable taking off your mask.

vaccine.
So as a public health advisory their best practice is to get vaccinated now.
They've also said that the risk of catching COVID is still there, though greatly reduced
Which is a non zero risk - as no vaccine is fool proof
Because no vaccines are fool proof wearing a mask is still very helpful in:
- not catching it when you're already vaccinated
- by not catching it, not spreading it to those that aren't vaccinated (most kids)
- catching other infectious diseases


But in addition to that outside of the CDC let's take into consideration:
- adjusting, Jesus Christ we've been wearing masks in near most settings for over a year now, allow people time to adjust to comfort
- solidarity with what people have been through for the last year, there's a huge stigma now associated with unmasked people, you're not going to automatically look at someone and assume they have a vaccine, you're going to think the same thing you thought about them last week
- the variants that exist now, and the ones that will come.


You don't have to know better than the CDC to take best practices and incorporate what fits into your life. And also, the CDC is health science and making health science statements, what they're not is anthropologists or sociologists ... and all in all this pandemic, this virus, these masks are bigger than a health issue ... it's been a huge fissure in our country. Changing mask guidance to affect the spread isn't going to change what masking or not became.

I think the issue is that after such a terrible bloodbath of an event, and with some unanswered questions about variants and those who refuse to be vaccinated, we haven't been given a lot of context to what that all might mean. That's part of their job in calming the situation. At the moment it doesn't all add up. They could try and explain further their findings and conclusions.

the abruptness with which it happened would be perfect ammo for denier conspiracy theorists

all told it does seem that these vaccines defend from C19 and the variants, which I would assume informed their announcement. BUt you're 100% right in saying they could do better at communicating their thought process.

Perfect!

>all told it does seem that these vaccines defend from C19 and
>the variants, which I would assume informed their
>announcement. BUt you're 100% right in saying they could do
>better at communicating their thought process.

Is it definitively true that the current vaccines used in the US defend from all the COVID variants that are out? I haven't heard that to be the case as of yet. This being somewhat up in the air (at least to my knowledge) and the fact that folks that aren't vaccinated will use this guidance as an excuse not to wear masks is why I am leery on going mask-less.

"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

I don't know more than the CDC about the structure of the molecules of the virus

the CDC advisory is about what to do when you're around people assuming they are all vaccinated

they don't know, and their advice doesn't say, that everyone around me is actually vaccinated.


I know you're a dummy, but come on

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

Their recommendation has nothing to do with the vaccination status of the people around you.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vaccinated-guidance.html


>
>the CDC advisory is about what to do when you're around people
>assuming they are all vaccinated
>

what do you think the word "can" means?

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

"the CDC advisory is about what to do when you're around people assuming they are all vaccinated"

That is a lie

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

A liar who can't read

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

the US hasn't officially reached herd immunity yet, correct?

>the US hasn't officially reached herd immunity yet, correct?
Took 40+ for small pox.

Polio is STILL around too.

So let's focus on getting the spread and occurrence of the disease to a very very low number.

Tuberculous is very serious and very contagious but is under control at most times in most places in the United States - that's what we are shooting for - those low low numbers sustained for a long time.

In the US, we have it for polio, measles, and many other diseases.

Herd immunity does not mean eradication. It just means we're at a level where a sufficient number of people are immune (through vaccination or otherwise) that non-immune people are protected.

But herd immunity is transient unless/until the disease is eradicated. Small pox is it.

Polio in the U.S is not likely to come back soon, but measles has been high some years - because people don't vaccinate. 2019 had ,200 cases of measles, where 2020 had 13 reported.

The goal should be bring Covid numbers form pandemic levels to a low endemic level. I highly doubt Covid will reach parity with the cases of measles in this country even in 5 years - but I agree that vaccination should bring us down much lower than we are today.

It just means that you can't do thing X today and not have to do something else tomorrow - this is an ongoing process - not a problem that can be solved once and for all.


But we're not getting to "herd immunity" with Covid in the U.S. without a sustained years long effort - and judging by the way things are going with vaccines and the public I think rates of other disease preventable by vaccination are likely to trend upwards. we're not in great shape, but I do hope the level of Covid will be very low in the future.

Those diseases resurfaced because of the recent anti-vaxx movement

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/23/covid-us-may-never-reach-true-herd-immunity-says-dr-scott-gottlieb.html

Key Points

“I don’t think we should be thinking about achieving herd immunity,” Dr. Scott Gottlieb told CNBC on Friday.

The former FDA chief said the country’s goal should instead be to “keep the level of virus down.”

Covid hospitalizations, not just cases, need to be the focus as vaccinations are rolled out, he added.

"Get your asses back to the office/ restaurant/ movie theater/ etc- there is money to be made"

and a very poor attempt to motivate dumb people to get vaccinated who haven't yet because they wanted it to be a cure all and a magic trick to have everything normal the next day.


Biden admin has done a lot of good shit but they should have paid people to get the shot.


A lot of folks in here sounding straight MAGA.


Bottom line- this is irresponsible until kids can get the shot.


The impatience of our institutions has caused this thing to go on longer than it needed to.

That summer breeze is blowing and they need that money to flow again. I don't totally blame them for trying since that is the system in which we live. I don't have to abide even if fully vaccinated.

sounding like folk.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Removing the most critical component of it.
Meanwhile the CDC has been wild fallible since the start.

seems way premature. They are saying they had the J&J shot and that is why but that shot was supposed to be about as good before. Idk, I'll remain masked in public.

And I guess a positive is they said 7 of the 8 are asymptomatic.

The vaccine doesn’t prevent the virus from entering your body, it’s just supposed to keep the symptoms mild to nonexistent.

KIDS
Best practice is to protect them as much as you can.

..it lowers the chance of infection. (I'll bet 7 of the 8 got it from 1 guy who was in contact with them all.)

So maybe they are infected ,but now it's about their ability to spread it outside of the group, and how sick they get.

Honestly if the vaccine meant that everyone could get infected still BUT that almost no one got seriously ill then it would be a great outcome.

Bill Maher got it too after being vaccinated.

who end up positive

...or they aren’t aggressively tracking that info

which seems irresponsible

If the Yankees HADN'T been vaccinated, this would've been one of the worst outbreaks baseball has seen in COVID. But because so many of them were vaccinated, about 67% of the team that had J&J avoided the virus, and 100% of the team that contracted the virus avoided serious illness or symptoms of any kind.

I'm sure thousands of people have taken this story and ran with it, but by the numbers the Yankees outbreak only proves that you should get the vaccine ASAP.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

https://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/communication/no-raw-dough.html


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

1. J&J is at roughly 60% efficacy when it comes to not having a positive test (it's at 70% plus when it comes to blocking symptoms). Giving that vaccine to athletes and/or anyone who is tested daily isn't the best move. You're going to see a lot more positives.

2. reports are out that the yankees tested positive roughly to weeks after their dose. studies are starting to come out saying the efficacy is much higher four weeks after one dose of J&J... https://twitter.com/MonicaGandhi9/status/1393250382097227778

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Positive tests are very relevant...serious illness or not

Especially considering we aren't close to herd immunity yet

The disease still has plenty of hosts
With the hosts that it has already found...variants are bound to evolve
If it just hangs around, or mutates...we're back at square one if immunity wears off

as often because you think you are good to go..

#1: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2779853

Swipe: Findings In this retrospective cohort study conducted in Tel Aviv, Israel, that included 6710 health care workers who underwent periodic testing for SARS-CoV-2 infection, vaccination with the BNT162b2 vaccine was associated with an adjusted incidence rate ratio of 0.03 for symptomatic infection and 0.14 for asymptomatic infection more than 7 days after the second dose. Both incidence rate ratios were statistically significant.

--
#2: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7013e3.htm

Prospective cohorts of 3,950 health care personnel, first responders, and other essential and frontline workers completed weekly SARS-CoV-2 testing for 13 consecutive weeks. Under real-world conditions, mRNA vaccine effectiveness of full immunization (≥14 days after second dose) was 90% against SARS-CoV-2 infections regardless of symptom status; vaccine effectiveness of partial immunization (≥14 days after first dose but before second dose) was 80%.

--
#3: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7018e1.htm

In a multistate network of U.S. hospitals during January–March 2021, receipt of Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna COVID-19 vaccines was 94% effective against COVID-19 hospitalization among fully vaccinated adults and 64% effective among partially vaccinated adults aged ≥65 years.

I'm skeptical of those results translating to a country where covid counter measures have been adhered to according to political party affiliations...and we're only at 40% or so vaccinated

2. Same issue...Health Care Personnel, First Responders, and Other Essential and Frontline Workers...I'm assuming are adhering to all of the guidelines

3. Just says the vaccine is effective against hospitalization in the >65Y.O. population

Hate to be the contrarian...but if that is the science...I'm good

Masked up.

If there's a 2nd wave in a couple of weeks...we're never getting out of this

In that context - and IGNORING ALL OTHER CONTEXTS - I think the guidance is good. (Now this country won't follow the context.)

My personal opinion: I will continue wearing a mask indoors around people I don't know that have been vaccinated. Meaning going to my mother's house is fine without a mask - but going to grocery store means mask still for me. No harm in it.

BUT I think these studies - AND the general lack of stories that say "My fully vaccinated mother/father/sister got COVID and was hospitalized or died from Covid" have been very rare/have not happened in more than a *very* small number of cases, over the past 5 months.

Also there's been no news of people in the ORIGINAL trials seeing a rise in Covid rates over time.

I think these vaccines did the nearly impossible - they are going to quickly stop this virus from spreading to other vaccinated people - and from vaccinated people into unvaccinated.

Does that stop the virus dead? Not until everyone is vaccinated AND over a period of time.

But this will be a policy mess for the states - no doubt. We have states who've already removed mask mandates and social distancing well before any evidence said they should do so.

We have people who simply do the opposite of what the evidence says because their brains are broken in some way - such as being hippies/'holistic people'/libertarians/republicans/etc.

So in the context of the guidance - that fully vaccinated people being ONLY with other fully vaccinated people can go maskless with a very small risk - its good.

with the Opening America initiative
Idiots just heard...we're open for business, decided the pandemic was over...and ignored the measures stipulated for actually opening back up again

I agree with alot of your sentiment...

>>> In that context - and IGNORING ALL OTHER CONTEXTS - I think the guidance is good. (Now this country won't follow the context.)

Right, in the context of Israel, which is (if not already) close to herd immunity through vaccination...I would be more confident in the CDC's statement

>>> My personal opinion: I will continue wearing a mask indoors around people I don't know that have been vaccinated. Meaning going to my mother's house is fine without a mask - but going to grocery store means mask still for me. No harm in it.

Right, until we are at herd immunity, I'm going to keep doing what I've been doing. The people that I TRUST have been vaccinated, no problem w/o a mask. General public...nah, can't trust it

>>> BUT I think these studies - AND the general lack of stories that say "My fully vaccinated mother/father/sister got COVID and was hospitalized or died from Covid" have been very rare/have not happened in more than a *very* small number of cases, over the past 5 months.

We've just seen MLB experience an outbreak of positive tests...and I believe those people had already been vaccinated. The vaccine does eliminate serious illness. It does not stop the spread.

>>> Also there's been no news of people in the ORIGINAL trials seeing a rise in Covid rates over time.

To the point above...because we aren't testing. The MLB positives are the result of continued testing policies. Bet money, if we tested the disease is still very present.

>>> I think these vaccines did the nearly impossible - they are going to quickly stop this virus from spreading to other vaccinated people - and from vaccinated people into unvaccinated.

Disagree. They don't do that. They protect against serious illness. They don't stop the spread. What this removal of masks statement does is put the unvaccinated at higher risk of serious illness. It doesn't stop transmission.

In the end, I stand by my initial reaction
This is motivation for people to get vaccinated...not science.

>We've just seen MLB experience an outbreak of positive
>tests...and I believe those people had already been
>vaccinated. The vaccine does eliminate serious illness. It
>does not stop the spread.

This is where I think we differ. I have NO EXPECTATION of this virus going to 0% occurrences in the U.S. for decades. And I don't think that's a realistic thing to expect to happen.

I do want this - many fewer people becoming sick and having their health compromised - and stop having hospitals are providing care for Covid that would affect care given for other things.


>>>> Also there's been no news of people in the ORIGINAL trials
>seeing a rise in Covid rates over time.
>
>To the point above...because we aren't testing. The MLB
>positives are the result of continued testing policies. Bet
>money, if we tested the disease is still very present.

Well if they aren't testing BUT the people are not reporting becoming ill (doesn't mean they didn't catch an asymptomatic case) then *I think it's about the same out in real life.*

If the vaccine means you can be infected but suffer no serious consequences from it then it's not a catastrophe any longer.

The vaccine at this point is not about eradication - that would come MUCH later. It's about making sure people do not get sick - even if they get can still get infected.


>Disagree. They don't do that. They protect against serious
>illness. They don't stop the spread. What this removal of
>masks statement does is put the unvaccinated at higher risk of
>serious illness. It doesn't stop transmission.

The do seem to greatly stop the spread - or at least the spread of serious illness to other vaccinated people. And even mild illness seems to be greatly reduced. And we're not hearing of cases going from vaccinated -> unvaccinated --- but more testing would help us know what's going on there - you're right, we lack data.

>In the end, I stand by my initial reaction
>This is motivation for people to get vaccinated...not
>science.

It can be BOTH.

I guess over the coming months we'll see what happens - and the data will trail what is happening by several months.

If this virus does not cause an illness after vaccination but is still spreading then I am fine with that for now.

preventing deaths/hospitalizations

and

slowing the spread

and vaccines do that effectively

where it falls out of alignment with my personal feelings is that....I don't want a mild case of COVID either

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

for the...why would you question the CDC...contingent

Ima need you to watch that doc...and then reconsider your stringent support of the CDC

Obviously, the CDC is not the FDA...but they are sister agencies within the Department of Health and Human Services

Questioning government agency decisions within a capitalist framework is necessary

>for the...why would you question the CDC...contingent
>
>Ima need you to watch that doc...and then reconsider your
>stringent support of the CDC
>
>Obviously, the CDC is not the FDA...but they are sister
>agencies within the Department of Health and Human Services
>
>Questioning government agency decisions within a capitalist
>framework is necessary

partially...its to portray returning to a normal life as an incentive for getting vaxxed.

but also...i think a lot of vaccine hesistant people, anti vaxxers, and anti maskers psychologically relied on a bit of a security blanket in knowing that the majority of people were taking precautions (like masking up and getting vaxxed) that would still protect them even if they themselves refuse to take those same precations.

this new guidance kinda reinforces (and makes more urgent) the risk of not getting vaxxed.

anecdotal evidence...but vaxx hesitant people in my family group chat are now trying to get shots after previously taking a 'wait and see' approach.

the local pharmacy i went to to get vaxxed is right next to the wawa i go to to get gas a few times a week. i got vaxxed as soon as it was open to people 16+. in and out in about 25 mins (15 of those i had to sit and make sure there were no reactions). not a lot of traffic.

it was even slower as time went on.

but friday through today (monday)...there's been a line backed up to the point people were waiting in their cars.

i think this was actually the intended effect. creating a binary choice of either getting vaxxed or being out here exposed to nudge people out of hesitance/complacency.

I think this was absolutely to introduce the binary choice, and to expose the anti-vaxxers, or at the least, thin the crowd and expose them.


Its a super slick way of forcing the issue, but definitely influenced by politicians.

Gave a pretty good speech about how the vaccine is a key that opens the door to the life you remember having or something like that


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

i hope it is also people that were previously reluctant to get the vaccine but i think it might be more of parents taking their kids.

12-15 is such a small subgroup compared to the 16+ population at large. like only 16 million.

i cant find the tweet but of the 1.7 million or so shots reported for sunday...only 200k or so were from 12-15 folks.

im not sure if there was a breakdown between 1st and 2nd shots to get a truly representative picture tho.

if anyone has data...please post it.

anecdotal observation again...i didnt see that many young folks in the line at my pharmacy where it would have really stood out to me.

there hasnt been a line for the vaccine here for weeks. i know thursday was the first day for 12+ and it was booked up.

If the rule wsa vax'd people can be in a room together but must wear a mask if an unvax'd person joins, that's got to be to protect the unvaxxed person.

Their definitely seems a shift of burden to the unvaxxed. I just worry about people like my sister n law who is unvaxxed not because she doesn't want it but because she has lupus.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

which is why the "oh don't you follow the science" responses are so off base.

if it does push people to get vaccinated who wouldn't have, then we'll have to see if the tradeoffs are worth it, because even if people get vaccinated today, it's weeks until they get full protection.


I think a better way to go would've been establishing scales / schedules for when to roll back mandates based on case rates and vaccinations locally.

when you get to xyzz number, two weeks from that day (assuming it holds) the restrictions go away.

not just "aight, honor system for the masks starting now, hope you got vaccinated bruh"


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

>I think a better way to go would've been establishing scales /
>schedules for when to roll back mandates based on case rates
>and vaccinations locally.

They were just like - "Take yo masks off TODAY!" While they could have easily made recommendations based on state/local case rates and/or vaccination percentages.

Or if they wanted to have a calculated risk for political reasons at a national level, they could have said "based on current trends, we are recommending that it's safe for fully vaccinated people to go without a mask on June 21st" since that would encourage some people to get vaccinated immediately to be fully vaccinated around four weeks later.

I don't know how you're supposed to try to interpret any of this

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

got an organ transplant? congratulations, now you got maskless unvaccinated people breathing in your face everywhere you go, and your immunity is questionable.

I guess you can just stay home for another year or two while all this gets worked out.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/05/18/immunocompromised-coronavirus-vaccines-response/

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

smh

I've spent 15 months doing so so much to keep my daughter safe and normal. She JUST had her first play date last weekend since the pandemic and it was outside and she was masked.

I need to get her to a vaccine for all of the work she's put in to be worth it.

https://twitter.com/benstracy/status/1420033909442715658?s=21

BREAKING: @CBSNews confirms the CDC will announce this afternoon that fully vaccinated Americans should return to wearing masks in indoor public settings due to the spread of the #DeltaVariant #ugh

I guess that shit is all in jeopardy now.

>I guess that shit is all in jeopardy now.

let's hope not.

and we gotta deal with *that* idiotic political shitstorm for another year.

i was surprised to log in and that shit worked.

i wonder when they reactivated my shit lol.

Good to see you back

for a few

They did you wrong.

as disjointed and bad a messenger as any source during this pandemic

the media pretty much bullied the cdc and the biden administration into removing the original mask mandate. they said not wearing a mask should be the reward for being vaccinated. they were more concerned with messaging and rose colored-reporting than scientific/medical consensus. and the supposed incentive they said would take shape didnt even really happen (vaccination rates fell anyway).

none of these news dickheads will take responsibility and admit fault tho. instead theyll spend the next few months blaming the biden administration for the catastrophic rise in covid cases among lowly vaccinated red states where the republican governors pretty much ignored all sound covid protocols and wont pay a single political price for it (ron desantis won the pandemic! (c) beltway media).

we know how that shit go tho.

and allow "centrists" to gaslight everyone

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

is an L.


The situation changes so the guidelines change.

Is the idea if they didn't loosen the standard we wouldn't be in this position today?



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

It was supposed to be either you’re vaccinated or you’re wearing a mask. There’s no way to enforce that and a lot of the unvaccinated have zero interest in cooperating with any of this, so they took that as their chance to stop wearing the masks. So now you’ve got half the population unvaccinated and following zero protocols and spreading it all over the place.

it's simply that it wasn't the time to change policy, it wasn't a good idea to change the policy at the drop of a hat, and the perceived benefits of changing the policy didn't happen

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

and cases were at all time lows. The vaccines were effective in all aspects vs previous strains.

Maybe the CDC should have had more foresight as they saw Delta growing in India? It was inevitably going to end up here and spread rapidly. But the flip side is that most Americans were mad and clamoring/bitching for mask mandates to go away. LOL @ telling Americans to "keep the masks on because there's a strain in India that is going to wreak havoc here in two months."

But yeah, science. The virus mutated and now we have to adapt. That's the only thing that should matter.

Personally I never took the mask off. But I've learned that I'm in the minority with that.

And the judgement call was do we make everyone where mask even though vaccinated people don't really need to wear a mask in order to get unvaccinated people to wear a mask and what will be the impact on unvaccinated people to continue to get vaccinated?



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Every country figured this'd go like every other disease had for the past 20-ish years and we'd isolate it quick, but we didn't, and now every county/state/country is playing a game of duck-duck-goose. And I say this as a vaxxed person that hasn't been wearing a mask anywhere other than when required (like public transportation) since getting my J&J in April.


I think the most important lesson the CDC (or the news media/push notification feeds...) need to learn is that the general public can't be trusted to think scientifically, and so while the new CDC regime is more transparent and truthful with the public, they're almost like Japanese video game developers and being overly descriptive to a fault.


I admit I didn't see *this much* vaccine hesitancy coming and jumped right into the cha cha slide with everybody else I knew that got a shot online and off...but they shoulda never gave these vaccine hesitant folks ammo to either lie or plain not give a fuck.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

is that a bunch of time got wasted arguing about mask policies

...did anyone ask if the ventilation systems at places like grocery stores and movie theaters and restaurants have been addressed to reduce the risk of spread as they reopen?

no?

just a lot of yelling at people who predicted that the most obvious thing would happen?

cool cool cool

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

that work in service industries if or when they places they work in will try to get folks to mask up again.

on your face is constantly exposed...

I know people over here arguing with your foolishness
But you're just being goofy at this point
Here's the Nigerian CDC's information on COVID

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-wB_IANUzw&feature=youtu.be

And here's Liberia's

http://moh.gov.lr/wp-content/uploads/Latest-Version-of-COVID-19-National-Guidelines.pdf


You don't want to believe white people, fine, can't blame you. But they out here saving themselves and their people with these shots and not sharing with the rest of the Black folks around this planet that you claim to love.

Nigeria and Liberia just copy the western nations.

It's a reason religious zealots in the north are armed with weapons from Western nations to destabilize regions while rulers get fat and the people get screwed.

With that said unless you got a screen (as a person who has been trained to work in the medical field a mask at best is just a breath stopper.

Or are we all just sheeps of the white people?

BGOL niggas

She was double masked, he was hacking up a lung because he was misdiagnosed with bronchitis.

She didn’t get it.

But nah tell me more about mask efficacy, scientist.

?

>on your face is constantly exposed...

not sure why but Ban this Bamma sounds hilarious

Need to put that shit on a shirt

Ban Bammas

"miseducation"

>on your face is constantly exposed...

Literally the talking points they are circulating.

Why don't you wear a screen protector for your exposed mucus membranes?

theyre pretty indistinguishable from fox news viewers on a lot of subjects.

i noticed a lot of them posting screenshots from places like dailycaller, washingtontimes, etc too.

all funded by the same handful of devils.

Y'all corny with this news associations.

Refusing to deal with the facts and stats is apparent.

Mask mandate is in effect after the delta variant. Hope yall wear masks anyways. People on facebook are mad they're still getting sick after taking the vaccine.

https://wtvbam.com/2021/07/30/usda-estimates-covid-19-exposure-to-over-50-of-michigans-deer-population/

I just listened to an interview where this was discussed with a doctor and this is possibly an early sign that we need to now worry about getting this from animals in perpetuity... I'm counting the days until the next lockdown at this point.

>https://wtvbam.com/2021/07/30/usda-estimates-covid-19-exposure-to-over-50-of-michigans-deer-population/
>
>I just listened to an interview where this was discussed with
>a doctor and this is possibly an early sign that we need to
>now worry about getting this from animals in perpetuity... I'm
>counting the days until the next lockdown at this point.
>

Good luck to all you unvaxxed folks and animals.

But I can’t give my energy to this type of weird ass news.