https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/21/us/ohio-columbus-police-shooting-15-year-old/index.html


On social media, I noticed it's got folks real conflicted.

On the one hand, it's like damn...another one. And she's only a child. And she called them for help.

But on the other hand, she was in motion to shank another girl. So that girl's life was probably saved.

What do y'all think about it? Unfortunate situation? Cop is a murderer?

the cops.

But apart from that, the cop had to do that. She was a split second from stabbing the girl in pink.

believe their lives or the lives of others are in danger. Even with seeing the I don't know enough information to correctly call it.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

It's not super easy to see from the video that's been released so far (because it all happened so fast), but some blown up stills of it show what was about to happen. The cop shooting her is the only thing that stopped her from cutting that girl open.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ezh9jgUX0AAoCbL?format=jpg&name=small



The

he's lucky she didn't get hit
i'm sure a taser or pepper spray would have stopped her from attacking the girl in pink

I was pretty heated when i heard the first few accounts. It definitely looked like she was running up on the girl in the pink and was about to shank her, and not in a 'defending herself' type of way. Kinda feels like the officer saved girl in the pink from getting poked. I'm pretty low on sympathy for police as a general rule, but I can't call it yet.

Lot's of context is missing for me - there'll be more tape, more 911 recordings that will give a fuller picture. Goddam depressing seeing a teenager shot to death whether it's 'justified' or not.

but i guess we're all doing the "wait and see"

this is where you wish a taser was effectively deployed, perhaps. i feel weird even typing that considering Daunte Wright. i dunno.

there are cops that aren't issued tasers, right?

shit just sucks all around.

some of y'all are like sheep leading other sheep to the fucking slaughter, i swear

the shit y'all will accept from police officers is mindblowing

i can't even read this post anymore. i'm out

d

"But rest assured, in my luxurious house built on the backs of people darker than me, I am sipping fine scotch and scoffing at how stupid you are." - bshelly

NOT ONE of these mass murderers was shot on sight by police prior to arrest, despite committing some of the worst domestic terrorism on US soil with far more dangerous weaponry than this girl's knife.

Furthermore, *even if* she had managed to stab one or more of the people she was fighting, the mortality risk from stab wounds are actually even less than that from blunt force (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stab_wound#Epidemiology) talk less of if she'd had a firearm instead. So the officer's threat assessment is shady af.

I'm not saying whatever those girls were fighting about didn't need to be de-escalated.

But we need to stop normalizing the use of Black bodies for target practice. They shot her like she was wildlife.

Meanwhile, these mass murderer White dudes get to just casually turn themselves in or get recognized during a traffic stop or whatever. The disparity in treatment is insane.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jan/16/police-black-mens-mugshots-target-practice

https://www.cnn.com/2013/04/13/us/florida-trayvon-martin-targets/

The fact that this is likely more widespread than we know about is fucking chilling. My God.


>
>we need to stop normalizing the use of Black bodies for
>target practice
>

a meal KNOWING what he did!!!

Yep! Here is a link
https://abc7.com/dylann-roof-south-carolina-church-shooting-emanuel-african-methodist-episcopal/801013/

This girl was in midswing trying to kill someone else.

It's tragic but are yall saying the cops should have let her stab the girl to avoid using lethal force?



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

I don’t follow this logic

A child was killed

No lives were saved.

IMO, the chances of the girl in pink dying from a steak knife attack were slim to none

If your premise is based on saving lives...that doesn’t make any sense at all

A child died.

Someone is being confined either way.

Kidnappers frequently get long sentences too, while their victims might be released much earlier. A likely net gain in man-years of freedom if we let kidnappers of single individuals operate I suppose.

the premise is based on saving an INNOCENT LIFE.

If the idea is saving all lives then, yeah, I guess the cops should never kill anyone ever. But I don't think you honestly believe that (or if you do isn't much to discuss because we are far apart).

Let's simplify this. If this were a 35 grown man swinging knife at that child most people would not fault the police for using lethal force.

This is complicated by this being a child who is swinging the knife. However I am not sure that it is a minor attacking changes whether the attack was potentially lethal or not.

Look down in DC two teenage girls killed a uber driver. That's tragic all around because 3 lives are ruined. given a few more years those girls brains might be more developed where they would have better understood the gravity of the risk they were taking. However, I am not sure that changes my mind that those girls should spend a significant amount of time in prison.


>I don’t follow this logic

I think you are being disingenuous because you know the difference between taking the life of an attacker versus a victim losing their life.
>
>A child was killed
>
>No lives were saved.
>
>IMO, the chances of the girl in pink dying from a steak knife
>attack were slim to none
>
>If your premise is based on saving lives...that doesn’t make
>any sense at all
>
>A child died.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

and then just hope she lives?

It’s not a choice between dead girl shot 4 times...or dead girl stabbed to death

There are other options

Nobody should have the power to play judge jury and executioner.

What this incident clearly illustrates...is the officer’s immediate reaction was shoot to kill

I’m not okay with that.

just the shittiest of shitty reporting all around

usually lethal tho. Or at least, they have much lower mortality risk than blunt force and gunshots, and according to some data it's estimated "85% of injuries sustained from stab wounds only affect subcutaneous tissue" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stab_wound#Epidemiology).

So to answer your question, I mean ya I would expect competently trained/experienced police officers to be able to factor that level of risk into their snap-second threat assessment. Not unlike the educators elsewhere in this post, talking about similar incidents that have occurred where they were teaching, and how those were de-escalated without the use of lethal force.

If Ma'Khia had been wielding a frying pan instead would yall still be making this "she was trying to kill" argument?? Bc she technically would have been weilding a more lethal weapon.

There's really nothing that can convince me she needed to be shot on sight like that. Even if she had been weilding a gun tbh. Not when officers can arrive at the scene of a mass shooting and have enough "restraint" to not take out actual mass murderers wielding AR-15s.

but a lot of people, including you, are in here being ridiculous.

what if that's someone about to stab up your momma, your kid, whoever you love.

you wanna risk that the STATISTICS hold up for your loved ones and just let them get stabbed until police can taser or tackle your folks' attacker?

all it takes is for an artery to get knicked wrong w/ ONE stab/slash and you're toast they can't sew that shit up fast enough, sorry.

Getting stabbed in the abdomen is not something you want to take chances with. The fact that police were already on the scene would help a bit because a stab victim would be able to get immediate treatment.

But you can't just let someone get stabbed and hope it works out okay.

recounting fights worse than this, with knives or whatever else, happening on schoolgrounds that staff were able to effectively de-escalate without anybody needing to die.

Wtf said anything about letting someone get stabbed and hope it works out okay? Were they police or spectators? Furthermore, htf do you even know she wouldn't have missed or been dodged or whatever?

What you guys are refusing to understand, bc it doesn't affirm your little Law and Order SVU fantasies, is that *even if* she managed to stab one or more of those girls it is likely the injury wouldn't have been lethal. I'm sorry that's just what actual stab wound evidence shows.

So the whole she needed to die to save the other's life is the actual bs here lol, not the stats.

for target practice, as I linked above.

What reasons could they possibly have for doing that, other than to shoot Black bodies on sight in situations just like this?

I personally think it's ridiculous to DEFEND it.

You don't think it's entirely fucked up that Ma'Khia lost her life here, but the Aurora shooter could shoot up a whole movie theater and get peacefully taken into custody afterwards?

You're conditioned dude

And who here said they broke up a knife fight?

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

according to the epi on these sorts of injuries.

I linked to a summary on wiki and just used that to illustrate.

compared to frying pan attacks in a given year?


2 minutes of googling gave me this:

According to the FBI, across the United States in 2018, there were: 1,515 deaths by knives or cutting instruments, 443 people were killed with hammers/clubs/other blunt objects, 672 people were killed from fists/feet/’personal weapons’ compared to the 297 killed by (any) rifles.

3 times as many people died from stabbings versus blunt objects.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

on sight for wielding a knife, when like zero mass murderers are shot on sight for wielding assault weapons responsible for even more casualties (some of which they had just killed) than knives??

You're reiterating the point I was trying to make in the first place Buddy. If you believe knife > frying pan, then AR-15 is definitely also > knife. And if police don't even shoot mass murderers with AR-15s on sight when they show up to a scene, then this girl def didn't need to die bc she had a knife when they showed up to the scene.

But even besides that, I never brought up blunt force/frying pans to say there's an epidemic of frying pan deaths. I brought it up bc yall are insinuating Ma'Khia's death is justified bc of the *RISK* you claim she posed to the other girls bc she had a knife. But if you want to talk RISK then that calls for some data bc comparing risk is different than comparing incidence, as you've tried to do here. Those numbers are meaningless without denominators and some standardization tho.

For example, 500 blunt traumas could have resulted in those 443 deaths attributable to blunt trauma v. like 1,000,000 stabbings resulting in those 1,515 deaths attributable to stabbing. Epidemiologists would plug those numbers into a model and adjust for a few other things to come up with estimates of mortality rate and MORTALITY RISK that make sense to compare.

If you go back to what I wrote I clearly say mortality risk. But I'll give you credit in that I don't have time to go digging through whatever cdc database right now to legit compare mortality rates and risk, and its possible the studies cited in wiki are old, wrong, etc.

So whatever. We might not have the epi exactly right. But she def didn't need 4 shots to the chest. On that I'm certain yall can not change my mind.

Literally in motion to stab the girl.

It would be disingenuous of me to say Ive stopped someone with a knife attacking another, but as an educator over the last twenty years I've had to stop a number of conflicts both with and without weapons that ranged from pens to bats/pipes. Honestly I've had to do it in scenes that looked way more chaotic than what I saw in that video.

Never once did I think to do my job by harming a student. Now if you place a gun in my hands and I had access to that as part of my job, who knows.

The point im trying to make is I never considered shooting a student to stop him/her from harming another one because my job isn't designed around the power of a gun. That very fact to me highlights one of the major issues with policing in the first place and why I'm pissed off about this whole shit, including the arguments that it had to be an EITHER or choice between the girl in pink and Ma'Kiah Bryant.

Miss me with...she was gonna kill someone

FOH

My issue is...12 seconds...4 shots

I didn’t hear sirens
Did he even have the lights on
Looked to me like they didn’t know the cop was there...and I didn’t hear him announce himself

Pepper spray...nope
Taser...nope
4 shots to the chest

He coulda just walked over to her and been just as effective at stopping the fight

But after 3 weeks of testimony in the Chauvin trial...it’s apparent cops are trained to escalate

>4 shots to the chest
>
>He coulda just walked over to her and been just as effective
>at stopping the fight
>

of Tamir Rice with how fast he pulled his gun and opened fire. Also, there was a man out there screaming that she is a child and I couldn't help but think "white people don't see our kids as kids." He didn't see that knife as a damn kitchen knife nor did he see her as a child.

I wish I had not watched that body cam video. It disturbed my spirit.

But on second thought I am glad I did watch it because now I can see that the whole "she had a knife" thing is ridiculous.

There's been several incidents where a steak knife has been used to kill someone. What happened in Ohio reminded me of this story from a few years ago, also in Ohio.

Man gets 15 to life for killing mom with steak knife in Lakewood.

https://www.morningjournal.com/news/ohio/man-gets-15-to-life-for-killing-mom-with-steak-knife-in-lakewood/article_5373a72a-273f-5a82-b7f0-c2f8783bdcb4.html

The Associated Press Feb 17, 2016 Updated Apr 1, 2021

CLEVELAND >> A suburban Cleveland man has been sentenced to 15 years to life in prison for stabbing his mother to death with a steak knife.

Prosecutors said 22-year-old Sean White was sentenced Tuesday in the fatal stabbing last July 17 in Lakewood.

White pleaded guilty to one count each of murder and felonious assault just as his trial was to start Tuesday.

Authorities say White killed 56-year-old Kathleen Meany with a steak knife and also stabbed himself in the torso. His mother had called 911 about 3:30 a.m. that day and said her son had cut himself and was bleeding to death. The call abruptly ended after unintelligible shouting was heard in the background.

A call to White’s attorney on Wednesday wasn’t immediately returned.

Apparently, he was taken into custody and put on trial

In the Columbus shooting...nobody died until the cops showed up.

It's just not this automatic outcome.

I actually think that most people (especially a young teenage girl) would probably not be able to exert enough force or strike at the appropriate angles and body locations to kill somebody with a knife.

Certainly not with one blow. Which is about all Ma'Khia would have had the seconds to attempt if the police had been serious about de-escalating/restraining her instead of exterminating her.

Thae one stat I quoted up top, which I think was from UK data, estimates that 85% of stab wounds don't even go beyond subcutaneous tissue. Most knives in people's homes probably aren't even maintained/sharpened properly enough to be an effective murder weapon.

Even Julius Caeser needed to be stabbed repeatedly by multiple grown ass men circled around him to be killed on the spot by stabbing lol

.

In England, and there is YouTube proof of this, a man was waving around
a machete while approaching people. Police officers simply circled him to
decrease his ability to move in space, so he couldn’t put any momentum
behind his swings. The only force they used was physics.

However, American police officers are not specialized any anything. They
are just average Larry and Joes with firearms.

The police officers actions were unnecessary, and the situation is further evidence
that police reformation is needed.

>However, American police officers are not specialized any
>anything. They
>are just average Larry and Joes with firearms.

Unfortunately, given their level of training, their actions were arguably necessary. You only have a few moments to make a life altering decision.

or sister or family member and had been stabbed to death would you feel differently?

.

getting stabbed but you wouldn't want it to happen to your daughter. Got you.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

i am also not fine w/ emptying the clip in a girl w/ a steak knife, when white mass murderers get the red carpet treatment. the job is to deescalate not terminate.

The girl was already distracted trying to attack someone else, you're telling me these cops couldn't just run up on her and tackle/tase/restrain a 16 year old girl?

Just pathetic.

>The girl was already distracted trying to attack someone
>else, you're telling me these cops couldn't just run up on her
>and tackle/tase/restrain a 16 year old girl?
>
>Just pathetic.

Its easy to monday morning quarterback the situation and it possibly could've been handled different but do you think he knew how old she was when he ran up? He saw one person trying to stab much smaller with a knife. Clearly this individual wasn't rational because she continued her attack after police showed up. Sadly if she wasn't stopped she could be facing a murder charge and going to jail for a long time. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Whole she may have stabbed the woman once I seriously doubt she was going to kill everyone instantly.

Did he ever yell freeze or drop the weapon or announce himself?

have to take a break from that type of trauma

Yet a white guy can run around with a semi-auto rifle shooting at people,
but is given time to put down his weapon and lie on the ground.

Whether threatening or non-threatening, African Americans are never afforded
the same rights as Caucasians.

And anyone supporting the officers’s actions doesn’t know what a real threat
is.

He shot the girl 4 times!!!

>Yet a white guy can run around with a semi-auto rifle
>shooting at people,
>but is given time to put down his weapon and lie on the
>ground.
>
>Whether threatening or non-threatening, African Americans are
>never afforded
>the same rights as Caucasians.

Do you think the white guy in your example should be shot too? Or nobody should get shot?

>Yet a white guy can run around with a semi-auto rifle
>shooting at people,
>but is given time to put down his weapon and lie on the
>ground.
>
>Whether threatening or non-threatening, African Americans are
>never afforded
>the same rights as Caucasians.


All this is true. No one is disputing this. You are arguing with yourself.

Now talk about what is at hand. Should the officer had risk letting the other girl get stabbed in order to avoid using lethal force.

I don't mind saying, I don't know.




>
>And anyone supporting the officers’s actions doesn’t know
>what a real threat
>is.
>
>He shot the girl 4 times!!!


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

NO

.

Ive been im versions of this situation.

It would be disingenuous of me to say Ive stopped someone with a knife attacking another, but as an educator over the last twenty years I've had to stop a number of conflicts both with and without weapons that ranged from pens to bats/pipes. Honestly I've had to do it in scenes that looked way more chaotic than what I saw in that video.

Never once did I think to do my job by harming a student. Now if you place a gun in my hands and I had access to that as part of my job, who knows.

The point im trying to make is I never considered shooting a student to stop him/her from harming another one because my job isn't designed around the power of a gun. That very fact to me highlights one of the major issues with policing in the first place and why I'm pissed off about this whole shit, including the arguments that it had to be an EITHER or choice between the girl in pink and Ma'Kiah Bryant.

This specific instance feels more like a gun violence issue than a policing issue. I would never think to resolve a conflict with a gun, but I would also never think to own a gun, period. I find it amazing that ANYONE would want to own a firearm or that anyone is still attracted to war in a world with satellite guided missiles and assault helicopters. So I'm in that mindset from jump.


But this cop is not. And he had a gun on his hip and, rightly or wrongly, saw a life in danger. There's a lot to unpack here, but I can't say that if this cop didn't have a gun on them they would've found another way to kill that girl. So for me it starts with the gun.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_the_instrument


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

I read that the other 3 didn't draw their weapons. I don't know if this is true because I couldn't tell from the video that I watched.

Assuming it is true, I'm curious as to what their state of mind was and what action they would have taken instead.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

two more videos caught from a neighbor's home prior before the cop shooting occurred. both footage shows Bryant stabbing another girl in a pink jumpsuit over and over. she was determined to kill the girl. while she's swinging the knife you can hear the officer running up saying "get down! get down!" yet Bryant in the middle of black out rage was not hearing him and determined kill pink girl.

imagine that knife plunge in pink girl's neck and the cop still shot Bryant, instead of 1 dead girl, now there's two.

i hate girl fights.

to stab a black teenage girl, would we call him a hero?

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Siding with a murderous pig over a young Black girl. Assholes.

>Siding with a murderous pig over a young Black girl.
>Assholes.

what about the young black girl in the pink? who's on her side?

There are several things a “trained” police should to do to deescalate a situation involving a knife. When I taught high school, we had several incidents just like this and were able to resolve it without fucking killing a child. Gtfoh.

I would be surprised if the parents of the girl in pink share your bullshit view..

not to be murdered by the state. This was completely avoidable and you all are just talking shit.

had she not picked up that knife.

judgement of others isn't worth a hill of beans.

And if you you trying to say you stopped someone from kniving to death someone, I don't believe you, you need more people.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

parties managed to live (although no telling what condition the Stab-ee would be in)

emphasis on PROBABLY, you can argue that situation would have played out however you want minus the gun fire, but there's no real way of knowing what would have happened.

Although if I'm about to get stabbed (again?) or one of my loved ones is about to get poked, I don't think I'd be as conflicted

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

I finally watched the video but maybe I missed one with better sound quality.

Just seemed like their wasn’t a sense of urgency to de-escalate the situation but the gun fire was quick once they saw the knife.

did anyone have bass in their voice? Were the sirens on?

....i think cops just love killing

should they? i think they should.

not even sure they should have guns fwiw.

>should they? i think they should.
>
>not even sure they should have guns fwiw.

that's wishful thinking unless you have a plan to repeal the 2nd amendment

changes, which is also wishful thinking.

some dudes who were on his ex girls porch after he got caught at the club a night earlier.

The story is funny now because no one was killed but I’m imagining what would’ve happened if police pulled up while he was standing on top of a car with a wild look in his eye. He sliced dudes up but it wasn’t serious and they didn’t even show up for court and he beat the case

That’s the thing tho.. back in the day I seen friends, family and strangers do some wild shit and cops NEVER used their guns. They pulled them out a few times and even put a shotgun to my boys chest at a house party..

but all those situations ended without death.

I imagine a lot of those would have bullets flying these days. Cops are still too quick to shoot us while using all types of precaution in most situations.

I just think there are more cameras. This is the type of shooting that wouldn't even had made headlines without video. Infact, it sounds a lot like this shooting which didn't make the news.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/maryland/ac-cn-maryland-state-police-shooting-2021413-20210413-4s25mmj3iffldelmnrbg7j76tm-story.html



There is just more scrutiny now because of cameras which is a good thing.

I was at a ghetto party (an old grocery store converted to a club) in Baton Rogue not too long ago and at the let out this dude put out a gun and even let off a shot in the air (or it accidently went off). It was a small gun and police didn't even trip but sent his drunk ass home and took his gun. Didn't even arrest him.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

and 90’s

yet, for some reason it felt safer back then because we didn’t have 24/7 news coverage

I even blame myself. My kids are still young but I cringe at the thought of letting my daughters play at the park when they are older. But growing up it was normal to see girls playing outside without supervision when they were 9 or 10.

Terry in Soul Food would have been shot the fock up!

HE COULDA ran over someone with his car

That officer saved a life...by killing him

SMH

You guys (the cop and almost murder victim) are just pussies

evidence

______________________________________________________________________________

"To Each His Reach"

but.....

Fuck aliens.

who the fuck is buttering bread with a gatdamn steak knife?

just stop.

which probably bodes well for any criminal repercussions the cop may face.

as far as right or wrong, i cant definitively call it one way or the other. a little of both? a lot of both? some reasonable names in here have it absolutely one way, which makes the point i think. sad situation.

So been reflecting on this more, still not fully formed....Some of you know I practice jiujitsu so there is a whole community of cops and bootlickers there who are steadfast that it was 100% the right move so that had me thinking more.

As stated above there is a right and wrong and good vs bad worldview those folks have that exists in a very different way for me.

In my job as an educator, even if a student punches me— if I punch him back there’s a high likelihood I’m fired and find a hard time finding another job. Now imagine me shooting a student—even to save another student. What would the perception of me be? Because in that role i am supposed to be someone who cares for young people and to fathom someone who cares assaulting another person doesn’t compute for most people. Cops on the other hand aren’t seen as caretakers.

Let’s play along with the “there are thugs and criminals narrative” that we need to take off the street who are generally bad people. Most if not all of those bad people have attended school at some point in their lives. We’re they not bad people in schools? Why are they not been beat up, choked to death, killed at the same rate in schools?

Because that’s not what teachers do. Are there tragic fights that have ended up in severe injury or death in schools? Sure but rates are way lower because schools are seen as a place where young people should be protected (yes there’s an argument against this that I and many others probably have- but I think you’ll get the general idea). Guns are largely out of school for a number of reasons—including terrible metal detector policies, but yes teachers and schools staff don’t have guns either. Undoubtedly if teachers could carry guns we’d see an uptick in school shootings by teachers where now we basically see 0. There are a lot of racists and closer racists in teaching too, but without a gun and the power and role to POLICE and find bad people— they don’t murder students in schools... .

>So been reflecting on this more, still not fully
>formed....Some of you know I practice jiujitsu so there is a
>whole community of cops and bootlickers there who are
>steadfast that it was 100% the right move so that had me
>thinking more.
>
>As stated above there is a right and wrong and good vs bad
>worldview those folks have that exists in a very different way
>for me.
>
>In my job as an educator, even if a student punches me— if I
>punch him back there’s a high likelihood I’m fired and
>find a hard time finding another job. Now imagine me shooting
>a student—even to save another student. What would the
>perception of me be? Because in that role i am supposed to be
>someone who cares for young people and to fathom someone who
>cares assaulting another person doesn’t compute for most
>people. Cops on the other hand aren’t seen as caretakers.
>
>Let’s play along with the “there are thugs and criminals
>narrative” that we need to take off the street who are
>generally bad people. Most if not all of those bad people have
>attended school at some point in their lives. We’re they not
>bad people in schools? Why are they not been beat up, choked
>to death, killed at the same rate in schools?
>
>Because that’s not what teachers do. Are there tragic fights
>that have ended up in severe injury or death in schools? Sure
>but rates are way lower because schools are seen as a place
>where young people should be protected (yes there’s an
>argument against this that I and many others probably have-
>but I think you’ll get the general idea). Guns are largely
>out of school for a number of reasons—including terrible
>metal detector policies, but yes teachers and schools staff
>don’t have guns either. Undoubtedly if teachers could carry
>guns we’d see an uptick in school shootings by teachers
>where now we basically see 0. There are a lot of racists and
>closer racists in teaching too, but without a gun and the
>power and role to POLICE and find bad people— they don’t
>murder students in schools... .


I think I get what you're trying to say but most adult criminals weren't criminals as children, things escalate usually based on life situations.

And to this point they haven't extended the 2nd amendment to schools so most students don't have guns. I feel like the whole teacher having guns is another irrelevant conversation.

Teachers frequently deal with kids, including the young criminals (maybe some legit bad kids in that mix), without guns. On the whole are successful, and don't rely on guns to control the kids they're working with.

One of the things that has been rattling around in my head that I think lines up w/what Shawn is saying, was something I heard in interview w/Billy Moore (the guy who shot Benji Wilson when they were kids)- He said something along the lines of 'when you carry a gun, you attract gun problems'.

Disarming the police kind of feels counter-intuitive to a lot of people, myself included, but could go a long way towards reducing police violence - it would force police to come up with better strategies of de-escalation and also take guns out of the hands of some of the bad actors on the police force.

Anyway, that's what I took from it.

>Teachers frequently deal with kids, including the young
>criminals (maybe some legit bad kids in that mix), without
>guns. On the whole are successful, and don't rely on guns to
>control the kids they're working with.

kids generally don't have guns in school, people on the street do. Until we take reforming gun control laws seriously I don't think we can talk about taking guns from cops however unfortunate that may be.


>
>One of the things that has been rattling around in my head
>that I think lines up w/what Shawn is saying, was something I
>heard in interview w/Billy Moore (the guy who shot Benji
>Wilson when they were kids)- He said something along the lines
>of 'when you carry a gun, you attract gun problems'.
>
>Disarming the police kind of feels counter-intuitive to a lot
>of people, myself included, but could go a long way towards
>reducing police violence - it would force police to come up
>with better strategies of de-escalation and also take guns out
>of the hands of some of the bad actors on the police force.
>
>Anyway, that's what I took from it.
>
>

So many police engagements that escalate involve people who aren't armed. I think there will always be some segment of police that are armed, but we've overarmed police, and they approach so may interactions from a 'weapons and tactics' standpoint that police see so many interactions as a battle that needs to be won.

>kids generally don't have guns in school, people on the street
>do. Until we take reforming gun control laws seriously I don't
>think we can talk about taking guns from cops however
>unfortunate that may be.

license to carry a gun. It can't be both ways.

>So many police engagements that escalate involve people who
>aren't armed. I think there will always be some segment of
>police that are armed, but we've overarmed police, and they
>approach so may interactions from a 'weapons and tactics'
>standpoint that police see so many interactions as a battle
>that needs to be won.
>
>>kids generally don't have guns in school, people on the
>street
>>do. Until we take reforming gun control laws seriously I
>don't
>>think we can talk about taking guns from cops however
>>unfortunate that may be.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ActualPublicFreakouts/comments/mwcyn7/in_new_video_makhia_bryant_can_be_heard_screaming/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

This one is more informative than the body cam footage

I thought he was a lot further away

Looks like he was within arm’s reach when they’re on the ground

...but he’s already reaching for a gun...

and then magically more cops appear...?

Worse.

That whole Reddit echo chamber bootlicking

Actual Public Freakouts is the right wing response

Type of people to complain about FragileWhiteRedditor

each other around, then after he's on the scene one of them jumps up with a big ass knife swinging at another one, at this point he's not sure what other weapons are present, there were other adults on the scene that probably should've intervened before it went that far, it was a lot going on, its not cut and dry. Young cop overreacted. But if Ma'Khia is alive she might be in jail for murder.

makes me sympathize with Ma'Khia a lot more.

First of all, she was in her (foster) home. And these 2 girls, older former foster sisters, at least one of whom is an enemy/Ma'Khia doesn't get along with, show up at the house to visit the foster mom for her bday. Foster mom was not home (yet), and they instead (predictably) get into it, and specifically start bitching at Ma'Khia about the state of the house, calling her dirty, telling her to clean, and something to the effect of 'their mom' doesn't like the house dirty etc. Yes it was a silly reason to get that violent but that's the kinda small shit teenagers will fight over, and I view the fight as instigated by these other girls. As in, Ma'Khia was just at home minding her biz and these other girls show up and start bullying her.

Next thing is, there's no footage (that we know of) of what happened in that house before they took it outside. The main enemy girl could've attacked Ma'Khia first for all we know or been stomping or choking her out etc. But whatever went down inside there, enemy girl was in good enough condition to run outside first (while girl in the pink was on the phone calling the foster mom to come home immed) and Ma'Khia was pushed to the point of grabbing a knife to defend herself. If Ma'Khia is the one who called the police (I'm starting to wonder whether it was the girl in pink instead), perhaps this is when she did it. And yes it's hard to consider the other girls the initial aggressors from these videos, especially with Ma'Khia running out with the knife and stating she wanted to stab tf out of enemy girl. But I'm like, these girls instigated with some fucking hurtful you're a dirty bitch and don't belong in our mother's house type talk, and we also don't know what Ma'Khia had even been through in her life to that point already to even end up in foster care (eg. maybe she'd been abused). And, again, we don't know what they physically did to Ma'Khia to push her to the point of blacking out, and now we'll probably never truly know bc Ma'Khia's dead and as if the other girls are going to say anything that implicates themselves.

Last thing is, I read that cop has only been on the job a short while and he does look poorly trained. I thought they learn all types of manouveurs to disarm people in situations like this?? If he had simply announced himself or even did the whole "Drop your weapon!" thing I bet Ma'Khia and enemy girl would have totally raised their hands up and complied. All he needed to do was take control and de-escalate and it's like you can watch him make a conscious choice NOT to do that. Like, EVEN IF he'd announced himself and asked her to drop her weapon and she was too blacked out to hear/care, he was close enough when she and enemy girl were tussling on the ground that he could have restrained her, grabbed her arm with the knife etc... moves I'm not familiar with but I know exist and police get trained on. He also had another opportunity when Ma'Khia got up and ran to the other girl; her swinging was mad wide and directionless. He could have even chased her the few feet and grabbed her arm/disarmed her or tackled her then. Like I can't believe we see video of cops tackling teens at pool parties and whatever else, but the *one* scenario where it would have made sense to tackle, restrain, and disarm her and all he thought to do was shoot. He was already reaching for his gun in those few seconds where he had good opportunities to disarm.

Smh. Such and unnecessary death.


https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/22/us/ohio-columbus-makhia-bryant-police-shooting/index.html

Ma'Khia Bryant argued about housekeeping before fatal police shooting, foster parent says

By Ray Sanchez, Mark Morales and Jason Carroll, CNN

Updated 9:35 PM ET, Thu April 22, 2021
Police officer shot and killed teen girl holding a knife, bodycam video shows

(CNN)Ma'Khia Bryant and two other young women argued over a messy house and unmade bed before a fight that ended with the fatal police shooting shooting of the Black teenager, the woman who cared for Ma'Khia in foster care said Thursday.

Angela Moore said two of her former foster children had come to her Columbus, Ohio, home Tuesday to celebrate her birthday when the young women and Ma'Khia bickered over housekeeping.
"It was over keeping the house clean," Moore said. "The older one told them to clean up the house because 'Mom doesn't like the house dirty,'" Moore recalled being told after she arrived home from work. "So that's how it all started."
Officials in Columbus have released body camera video of Tuesday's shooting -- during which Ma'Khia lunges at another young woman with a knife outside the house -- and urged residents to await the facts in the investigation.

Police did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Moore relayed for CNN the story she said she was told by one of the girls in the house at the time.
"You're not the guardian of me," Bryant replied, according to the story Moore said she was told.
"They argue all the time," Moore recalled, "but I never thought it would escalate like that."
Moore said she received a frantic call from one of the former foster children, who is seen in police body camera footage wearing pink and recoiling as Ma'Khia lunges at her with a shimmering knife.
"Mom, get home. Where are you? They're going crazy," Moore said the young woman told her. "She said they shot Ma'Kiah and I said, 'Huh?' It was just crazy."
Moore said she started praying. Soon she started getting text messages from people saying, "I'm sorry." When she got home, a police officer told her Ma'Khia had died.
"I never in my worst nightmare would have thought it would ever come to this," she said.

Outside Moore's home on Legion Lane, votive candles stretched onto the sidewalk Thursday. Balloons and flowers draped the side of a tree. Mourners paid their respects to Ma'Kiah, who, according to Moore, had been living at the house for only a couple of months.
"She was fun," Moore said of her young charge. "She liked to dance. She did chores around the house."

Ma'Khia's mother says 'beautiful baby' has been 'taken from me'
Ma'Khia's cousins remembered her as "a good student, a good person" whose life was unnecessarily cut short by "disproportionate and unjustified use of force."
"As a family we are all saddened by the tragic and unnecessary death of Ma'Khia," cousins Don Bryant and Deja Torrence said in a public appeal for justice. "She was loved by many. ... We want to remind everyone Ma'Khia was only a 16 year old teenage girl."
Ma'Khia's mother, Paula, in an interview Thursday said her "beautiful baby" has been "taken from me."
"I love God and I'm just going to put it in God's hands right now," Bryant said when asked about accountability for her daughter's death at the hands of police. "That's all I know how to do."
Bryant recalled a loving, funny and humble child who enjoyed music, cooking and seeing others laugh. She had recently made honor roll in high school, her mother told CNN on Thursday, and Ma'Khia's TikTok videos on makeup and styling hair were widely shared.
"I want the world to know that Ma'Khia was beautiful," Bryant said.
"She had a sweet little voice. Oh my gosh, she was just so talented. She was ... on the path to going many places, definitely."
The shooting occurred Tuesday afternoon, about 30 minutes before a guilty verdict was delivered in the killing of George Floyd. A jury found former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin guilty of all three charges against him.

"As we breathed a collective sigh of relief today, a community in Columbus felt the sting of another police shooting," Floyd family attorney Ben Crump tweeted.
The Columbus Board of Education, in a statement, lamented the deaths of Ma'Khia and Tre Von Dickson, a public school student killed by gun violence on Tuesday.
"While the outcome of the Derek Chauvin trial is now one demonstration that the 'system' can be held accountable, it certainly does not demonstrate that the system has been corrected or that there is true justice," board members said in a statement.
Ma'Khia enrolled at Independence High School in February. Franklin County Children's Services said she was a foster child in the county's care.
"We are tired of hearing about our students who are losing their lives because of community violence and these tragedies that seem like they're never ending," Columbus City Schools Superintendent Talisa Dixon said.

City and police officials almost immediately released video footage of the controversial shooting at a time when police use of force is under national scrutiny. In February, former Columbus police officer Adam Coy was indicted on charges related to the fatal shooting of Andre Hill, a 47-year-old Black man.

"We don't yet have all of the facts but we do know that a 16-year-old girl, a child of this community, tragically died last night," Columbus Mayor Andrew Ginther told reporters on Wednesday.
"Bottom line: Did Ma'Khia Bryant need to die yesterday?" he added. "How did we get here? This is a failure on the part of our community. Some are guilty but all of us are responsible."
Ginther said state investigators will determine "if the officer involved was wrong, and if he was we will hold him accountable."
Police identified the officer who fired the shots as Nicholas Reardon, who was hired in December 2019. The officer is off street duty pending an investigation.
Reardon served in the Ohio National Guard since August 2015, according to records. He is a staff sergeant assigned to the 121st Security Forces Squadron, Ohio Air National Guard, which is part of the 121st Air Refueling Wing.

Police attempt to revive teen after shooting
In a series of clips from police body camera video, Ma'Khia is seen holding a knife during a tussle with a young woman. An officer arrived at the scene and opened fire when the girl appeared to attempt to stab a second young woman.
"She's a ---- kid," a man at the scene tells the officer after four shots were fired. "Damn, are you stupid?"

Ma'Khia fell to the ground, the knife by her side.
"She came at her with a knife," the officer who fired his weapon is heard saying.
The situation unfolded rapidly, according to clips from the body cameras of three officers on the street. Ma'Khia was holding a knife in her right hand and charged the young woman dressed in pink -- who turned to her side as the teen appeared to attempt to stab her. That's when the shots were fired.
Officers attempted lifesaving measures "almost immediately," said interim Police Chief Michael Woods, who said the first medic was on scene in six minutes.
In the video, one officer asked, "Where is she hit?" The officer started lifesaving measures. "Stay with us," he told the girl and asked bystanders her name.
"Stay with us, Ma'Khia," he implored.
Bureau of Criminal Investigation looking into shooting
Officials urged the community to wait for all the facts to come out.
If an officer is "faced with someone employing deadly force, deadly force can be the response," Woods told reporters.
Ginther said the Bureau of Criminal Investigation will look into the actions of the officer.
"I understand the outrage and the emotion about this incident," Department of Public Safety Ned Pettus Jr. said at a news conference. "The video shows there is more to this. It requires us to pause."

A pair of CNN law enforcement analysts defended the officer's use of force as reasonable.
"(If) you don't shoot, the one young lady -- she stabs the other one and she dies," Charles Ramsey, a former Philadelphia police commissioner, said of the officer's actions. "But he had no other alternative, in my mind, other than to take some action because of what was going on. The young lady who was shot was clearly the aggressor in this case."
Anthony Barksdale, a former Baltimore City deputy police commissioner, told CNN the officer used lethal force when another person "was in clear and imminent danger of being stabbed."
"The officer used his service weapon to stop the threat," he said. "This unfortunate tragic incident was justified from a policing perspective. ... I am saying that, per training, the officer did his job and we need to start looking at each incident as its own incident."
Head of police union offers condolences
The president of the police union offered condolences to Ma'Khia's family.
"It's traumatic on everyone and we understand that," Keith Ferrell, president of the Capitol City Lodge number 9, said in a video, according to CNN affiliate WSYX.

"We have all seen the videos that have been released by the city now in the act of full transparency and we support that." Ferrell added, "What we've seen in a lot of circumstances and heard from the call, the 911 calls, we can see what we think has unfolded. But there is more to look at. There will be an independent investigation done that will get those answers. But we can speak on what we know now that has been released by the City of Columbus. We can certainly see that lives were at stake."

Ferrell said officers must make split-second decisions to save lives.
"We have a duty to protect the public and ourselves, certainly, the public," he said. "These are the kind of decisions officers are forced to make every day, and with this transparency, the public can see that. As unfortunate as it is, we do not know potentially how many lives could have been lost in addition or people seriously injured."
Republican Gov. Mike DeWine called Ma'Khia's death a "horrible, horrible tragedy" and praised Ginther for releasing videos of the incident.
"We should have enough compassion to worry about every child who is shot in our cities," DeWine said at a briefing. "And we should not accept it."

CNN's Francesca Hoffman, Evan Simko-Bednarski, Amir Vera, Artemis Moshtaghian, Anna Sturla, Rob Frehse, Elizabeth Joseph, Kristina Sgueglia, Melissa Alonso, Madeline Holcombe and Chuck Johnston contributed to this report.

...Seconds after the officer arrived at what is a large intense fight involving deadly weapons and full grown men kicking women in the head, he could have simply done some MMA groundwork wrestling shit with several people including at least one highly agitated individual with a knife who is yelling "I'm gonna stab the fuck out you", and this should be not only possible for any given police officer to execute, but the expected outcome.


We have VERY different understandings of what is reasonable.

and other settings, as multiple educators in this post have described.

Wtf is even the point of a police officer charged with public safety/keeping the peace if not to leverage appropriate tactics to de-escalate shit like this??

How are teachers and other resource staff in school settings able to de-escalate fights like this without killing any of the kids involved? Do we need them to start training police? Maybe schools/teachers should be getting that PD money instead of these dudes that only know how to shoot?

Take this argument somewhere else. Yall want this girl to be an assassin so bad. SHE WAS DEFENDING HERSELF IN HER OWN HOME.

I would like to see a video of a teacher de-escalating a blind rage knife attack like this one while unarmed.

Even if that were true though, it wouldn't make it reasonable to require a person with a gun in a given situation to not use it where appropriate, nor would it negate the necessity for some police to have guns. That does not follow.

Teachers have probably used school supplies as makeshift tourniquets before--doesn't mean EMTs have to.

I'm not for arming teachers, but if a teacher had a gun and was trained to use it, there would be situations that justified using it, in America the land of 300 million guns and home of the school shooting. Do you disagree with this?

I think you're being obtuse.

You really think fights like this don't happen in school settings?

And you're calling me obtuse but basically saying bc the cop had a gun he was obligated to use it

smh

what may have happened inside the house.

And all of those ifs are in Ma'Khia's favor.

But even if that's all true, you don't get to go after someone with a knife if your life is not in danger, which is most certainly was not in that moment caught on film.

Based on the CNN article, plus hearing the two 911 calls, I think it was the younger sister who made the first call and the woman in pink who made the 2nd one. It's unclear that Ma'Khia ever called 911 herself.

It bothers me a lot that Ma'Khia is no longer alive to give her side of what went down in the house beforehand. But the fact that those other girls didn't even live there and instigated the fight is not a good look to me personally. I might have felt differently if it was *MA'KHIA* that went to THEIR home to instigate and tried to stab them.

And I agree with you in that I also believe it may have been the girl in pink who called the police. Given that she was concerned about how bad they were fighting, on her phone, called the foster mom, etc

coming.

That's why I've been saying in a bunch of different places on the internet that the backstory doesn't even really matter.


That whole "you started it/you disrespected me/you better not call me out my name", etc. thing is very Hood Law, imo. I saw alot of fights jump off because of that kind of thing growing up and I always thought it was stupid and not justifiable. The "case" you're trying to make for Ma'Khia relies on that sort of philosophy. Like if you can just show that the girl in pink started it, then it's not Ma'Khia's fault. I reject all of that.

and it is why I mostly view Ma'Khia's actions as self-defense

It maybe doesn't matter now that she's already dead and not facing charges or a trial or anything. But I have great sympathy for a young girl essentially getting ambushed at home by her enemies.

Maybe the other girl even tried to stab her first, and the cop showed up right at the point where Ma'Khia had the knife? Wtf knows.

Domestic violence is complex shit.

You're just pushing that to keep your stance on this congruent in your own mind.

4) They had pre-existing beef and had fought in the past.

This is how the dynamic was framed by their own foster mom.

I'm not pushing anything and there's nothing to push. This was their actual life.

If she was chilling in her home and these former foster sisters she has beef with show up for a different reason but instead decide to pick a fight with her (their worst, according to the foster mom + the girl in pink), then what do you call that?

Your 4 points make it sound like they besieged the home, like the Jamaican druglords did to Ox in Belly. The CNN article says that they were there for "her birthday". It's still unclear whose birthday that is, but I read it as the foster mother's. So that gives them a legitimate reason to be there.

The foster mother also says the argument was about the girls keeping the house clean. That's a fairly innocent start to a brawl. Why would the 28 year old, who's there to celebrate a birthday, decide to pick a fight?

Again, I don't think resting your argument on a string of ifs and maybes, which all break in Ma'Kiyah's favor and all paint the 28 year old as some some of villain is a good thing to do.

you lol

And yes, my understanding is the former foster girls were originally there for the foster mom's bday as well.

That didn't mean they needed to start bullying/picking a fight with Ma'Khia tho. I mean, it's cool if you want to give these 20+ year olds all the benefit of the doubt. I personally am sideeyeing tf out of them. And yes, you ask a very good question about why these young adult women felt the need to start a fight with their former foster sister while waiting for the foster mom to come home. This is why I've been saying I wish Ma'Khia was still alive to describe from her side wtf went down in that house before the cops arrived. Bc I suspect enemy girl has likely dodged some charges of her own.

And none of this justifies Ma'Khia's death. Even if she was a complete slob, those girls no longer live there and they had about as much right to start a fight with Ma'Khia over the state of the house as your neighbour has to come over and fight you over yours.

She did not need to fucking die. Not by the hands of her former foster sisters, not by the hands of a cop, not even by the hands of her foster mother. She was literally just chilling at home and this madness descended on her. Fuck that.

who said these other girls were actually adults who had previous beef with Bryant and this wasn’t their first tome going at it

supposedly these other women are 28 years old.

while no one deserves to be stabbed.. if she was indeed jumped and is in a foster home its not put of the ordinary for a knife to be used as defense.

foster kids have all types of trauma

and observed family situations like these via my own family. It is scary to watch and think how close we came to having some unnecessary tragedy in our family. It is a reason why I handle most of my cousins with a long handle spoon. If I know we don't get along I avoid you at all cost. I have missed funerals, weddings and a family reunion to avoid the more volatile members of my family (a specific group of cousins). It is sad that it appears she didn't have the option of avoidance for so many reasons (she lived there, she was still under 18, etc.).

Aside from the emotional stress of family fight, I just have always been fearful of stuff going to far. And it has sometimes! But thankfully no one ended up dead or physically injured.

Some key things I didn't know about/couldn't confirm until reading this:

-Ma'Khia's grandmother was actually present inside the home before the cops came and witnessed part of the fighting. Ma'Khia called her scared:

"Ma’Khia Bryant’s grandmother Jeanene Hammonds said she raced about 10 minutes to the Columbus foster home after receiving a call from her upset granddaughter late Tuesday afternoon. She said Bryant told her that an adult woman who used to live in the home had returned for a visit and an argument had ensued over the house being messy.

Both Bryant and the woman were holding knives, Hammonds told The Washington Post in an interview. Investigators have not commented on whether anyone on the scene other than Bryant had a weapon or was threatening anyone."


- I now believe it was Ma'Khia that called 911, given what was said in the call and the perspective the person was speaking from:

"In the 911 audio released Wednesday, a woman’s voice can be heard talking to the dispatcher. “We’ve got these grown girls over here trying to fight us, trying to stab us, trying to put their hands on our grandma,” the person says. “Get here now!” Police said they had not determined who the caller was."


I find it telling that neither of the former foster sisters called 911 scared, but Ma'Khia called BOTH her grandmother AND 911. Ma'Khia also stated in the 911 call that her attackers were trying to stab her AND her grandma, and given Ma'Khia's grandmother is referenced in Ma'Khia's 911 call Ma'Khia must have called before calling 911. Which means Ma'Khia's grandmother actualy witnessed a significant part of the violence taking place in the home before the cops arrived, which adds weight to her assertion that BOTH Ma'Khia and the former foster enemy girl were armed with knives.

Imho, the former foster sisters definitely instigated and Ma'Khia was clearly defending herself which makes it even sadder that she was killed. And honestly as dangerous as it was for her grandmother to be there, calling her is probably the smartest thing she could have done bc at least she'd have an eye witness in case something happened to her (which unfortnately did). I also saw some other reporting that described frequent police presence at this particular foster home, with lots of the other kids running away, fighting, threatening to kill other foster kids in the house etc, and apparently Ma'Khia had only been living in this home for 7months.

Poor girl.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/04/22/makhia-bryant-police-shooting/

Ma’Khia Bryant’s family remembers her as loving, affectionate: ‘She didn’t even have a chance to live her life’
Relatives and others are mourning the loss of the 16-year-old, killed by police this week

By Randy Ludlow,
Paulina Firozi,
David A. Fahrenthold and
Derek Hawkins
April 22, 2021 at 6:00 p.m. CST

COLUMBUS, Ohio — Ma’Khia Bryant beams at her mother in a TikTok clip, then throws her arms around her neck. As Beyoncé’s “Dance for You” plays in the background, the teen lip-syncs the lyrics: “I’ma take this time to show you how much you mean to me, ‘cause you are all I need.”

It’s an intimate moment between mother and daughter, who were working hard to reunite after Bryant was placed in foster care, family members said.

“They had a close bond,” said Don Bryant, a cousin of Ma’Khia’s mother. “Ma’Khia was just an all-around good person.”

On Tuesday, 16-year-old Ma’Khia Bryant was fatally shot by a Columbus police officer responding to a call for help at her foster home in the city’s southeast. Body-camera footage released by police shows Bryant swinging what appears to be a knife at two people during an altercation outside the property before an officer arrives and fires four shots at her torso.

On Thursday, family members struggled to make sense of the killing, at least the third fatal shooting by Columbus police this year.

Don Bryant said he had a hard time recognizing the teen seen in the police video lunging at others. He does not “condone any violence,” he said, but he called the officer’s decision to open fire disproportionate.

“There are other disengagement techniques that police could have used here,” said Bryant, who has served on the Mansfield, Ohio, city council. “I’m a supporter of police, as former city councilor. I understood their moves, their tactics, what they do. I just don’t understand what happened here.”

Ma’Khia Bryant was loving and affectionate with family, Don Bryant said. When he ran in a recent election for mayor of Mansfield, she texted periodically to see how his campaign was going, he said.

She was also a budding cosmetologist, fond of trying out hairstyles and posting them to TikTok. Her account appeared to have been taken down Thursday, but a search of her name on the platform showed others honoring the 16-year-old by stitching videos from her account with messages calling for justice.

Two videos show her smiling and vibrant, dancing as she styles her hair. In one, she shows off her pulled-back locks topped off with a beaded headband. In another, she mouths along to Beyoncé as she pulls her curls into pigtails. She places her hand under her chin, showing off her completed look with a smile.

“She laughed a lot,” said Ila Bryant, Ma’Khia’s great-grandmother, adding that the teen did well in school. “Intellectually, she was very intelligent,” she said.

“But she didn’t even have a chance to live her life or make decisions,” Ila Bryant said. “Justice was not done.”

The body-camera footage released by police Wednesday shows a chaotic scene, with several people in the yard. A White officer can be seen emerging from his vehicle as Ma’Khia Bryant appears to chase someone who falls onto the sidewalk.

The teen then turns toward someone else wearing a pink sweatsuit and takes a swing at her head, with what appears to be a blade briefly visible in her hand. The officer yells “Get down!” multiple times before firing four shots at the girl, leaving her sprawled next to a car in the driveway.

In the 911 audio released Wednesday, a woman’s voice can be heard talking to the dispatcher. “We’ve got these grown girls over here trying to fight us, trying to stab us, trying to put their hands on our grandma,” the person says. “Get here now!” Police said they had not determined who the caller was.

Ma’Khia Bryant’s grandmother Jeanene Hammonds said she raced about 10 minutes to the Columbus foster home after receiving a call from her upset granddaughter late Tuesday afternoon. She said Bryant told her that an adult woman who used to live in the home had returned for a visit and an argument had ensued over the house being messy.

Both Bryant and the woman were holding knives, Hammonds told The Washington Post in an interview. Investigators have not commented on whether anyone on the scene other than Bryant had a weapon or was threatening anyone.

Hammonds said she was devastated by the shooting of her granddaughter. “This was a 16-year-old child,” she said, “a sweet, loving person.”

Officials identified the officer who fired shots as Nicholas Reardon and said he has been taken off street duty while the investigation proceeds.

Reardon, 23, appears to be the son of retired Columbus police sergeant Ted Reardon, an Air Force veteran and longtime basic-training instructor at the department’s training academy. When Ted Reardon retired last year, the department posted a tribute video, with speeches from high-ranking officers interspersed with photos of Ted Reardon screaming, drill-instructor-style, into the faces of recruits.

“Officers across Central Ohio will remember Sgt. Reardon for many things: his get in your face training, his heart, his devotion, his passion and his love of Hallmark movies,” the police department wrote in a tribute on Facebook.

Nicholas Reardon was a high school wrestler at Columbus’s Bishop Watterson High School. The wrestling team’s Twitter feed showed him posing with his father as a senior in 2016.

The wrestling team’s Twitter account said Nicholas Reardon was planning on studying political science at Bowling Green State University. The university said he spent only one semester there, in the spring of 2017. Instead, Reardon followed a career path similar to his father’s. He joined the Ohio Air National Guard in 2015, according to the Defense Department. He remains a staff sergeant, part of a security forces unit, and has spent two six-month stints on active deployment.

Nicholas Reardon joined the Columbus Police Department in December 2019, just months before his father retired.

Columbus police did not respond to a request for comment about Reardon. When a reporter called his cellphone Thursday, the person who answered said, “I’m sorry, sir, please leave us alone.”

The shooting immediately ignited debate about whether deadly force was warranted. Speaking about general policy rather than the specific incident, interim police chief Michael Woods said at a news conference that police can use deadly force “when faced with someone employing deadly force.”

He also said officers are trained to shoot “the largest part of the body available to them.”

Criminologists and experts in use of force told The Washington Post that Reardon appeared to have followed police protocol.

“From a training standpoint, it’s textbook,” said James Scanlon, who spent 33 years with the Columbus Division of Police.

He said there was not enough “time nor distance nor barrier … where the officer would have time maybe to use a Taser or to use a baton or to use mace.”

Bowling Green State criminologist Philip M. Stinson said there may have been “split seconds away from the other girl in pink being seriously bodily injured or killed.”

“He had to act according to his training, and in my view, preliminarily, he did so appropriately and effectively and tragically,” Stinson said.

But many in Columbus say the officer should have done more to de-escalate and questioned whether the department needs to overhaul its training.

Nana Watson, president of the Columbus chapter of the NAACP, acknowledged that the officer who shot Bryant faced a split-second decision but said, “I do not believe she had to die.”

“Did he have to get out of that car ready to shoot?” she said. “Something else could have been done differently.” Columbus needs to upgrade de-escalation training and policies for officers, she said.

“These killings in the Black and Brown communities keep happening,” Columbus City Council member Elizabeth Brown said Thursday.

“It’s a tragedy we lost a 16-year-old child,” said Brown, a Democrat and daughter of Sen. Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio). “We may not have every answer for what happened on Tuesday, but the vision we all should have is one where every person involved in that altercation is still alive.”

Brianna Baker, founder and executive director of Justice for Black Girls, said she hoped that as people remember Bryant, “we capture the fullness of her Black girlhood.” Too often, she said, “Black girls are stripped of their innocence and childhood.”

“Everything about Ma’Khia’s death and the reaction to her death shows we don’t believe Black girls and children have the ability to make mistakes,” Baker said.

“They are still worthy of protection,” she added.

Firozi, Fahrenthold and Hawkins reported from Washington.

everything needs to resort to gun violence. this country is absolutely crazy

The situation, to me, was past the point of de-escalation. She was actively trying to stab someone else right in front of him.

The only other option I see would be to risk his life to try to disarm her. And this is where my struggle is bc it would be great if he did but I think it's unreasonable to expect that from regular police.

I mean, I want the police to try harder to de-escalate where appropriate but this doesn't seem like the situation for it.

The background around the whole scene is tragic bc the girl initially did the right thing by calling the cops and not confronting the people outside of her home.

being really disingenuous.

just seems like a confluence of events that lead to a really shitty outcome.

you gotta love it.

so, you're gaslighting.

just because someone sees a situation in a way that is different from how you see it doesn't mean they are conditioned.

but you already know that.

carry on.

I don't need to know anything about any of you to point out something that doesn't make sense or sounds conditioned

our disagreement is obv otherwise we wouldn't be going back and forth

Please calm down

.

"The situation, to me, was past the point of de-escalation."

^We know this is false bc fights this chaotic and worse have beeb happening in schools and other settings since forever, and are de-escalated by the staff in those settings without killing any children. There's educators in this post attesting to this fact.


"The only other option I see would be to risk his life to try to disarm her. And this is where my struggle is bc it would be great if he did but I think it's unreasonable to expect that from regular police."

^And yet we see footage all the time of police subduing protestors and other types of combatants with tackles, holds, and other manouveurs in high visibility settings. We even see footage, from time to time, of police utilizing tackles, holds, and other manouveurs when the people involved are NOT being violent, like so: https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/article/McKinney-pool-party-teen-Becton-Cole-13017647.php. Even in this post someone told the story (granted, in the UK, lol) of how police effectively subdued a man wielding a machete without using lethal force. So this poor widdle police officer what else was he supposed to do but kill her narrative is some bullshit. The fancy holds and manouveurs exist and come out when they want them to, and risking their lives for public safety is literally the job. With the kind of budgets PDs have, they're supposed to be trained and competent enough to de-escalate a fight between some teenage girls without lethal force. The excessive force is what's unreasonable, not the duty.

"I mean, I want the police to try harder to de-escalate where appropriate but this doesn't seem like the situation for it."

^When police get called about a bomb threat, do we see them show up and blow up the building?? No. They try to de-escalate, evacuate, whatever other fancy shit to take apart said bomb, etc. So how is the *excessive* force that has come to define interactions police have with Black people appropriate? Like, the tackle that McKinney officer used on the teenager at the pool party might have been more appropriate to use against Ma'Khia in this particular incident kind of thing. And if the kids in these incidents were white in upscale neighborhoods, how much do you want to bet the police response probably would have been VERBAL? But no, it's tackle tf out of the teenage black girl sitting outside the pool and shoot dead the actively fighting black girl instead of tackle and subdue her; yall see this as an appropriate way to interact with Black children. Wtf?

2-3 educators in this post are attesting to that. I can name 3 incidents in my high school where 2 teachers were badly injured and never came back from trying to break up wild shit. There are probably hundreds of thousands of educators. Just because 2 or 3 OKPs are saying it's possible doesn't mean it's the rule.


No, we don't see footage all the time of regular ass police officers doing extraordinary shit like jumping in a crowd and disarming 10 people or whatever. You see it because of how extraordinary it is.

Police officers call in backup in a traffic stop if they have to take remove you from your vehicle. Yeah they put their lives on the line for public safety, but these niggas ain't superheroes. They still do certain shit and follow certain protocols to make sure they can come home to their families. At least they're supposed to.

Nobody in here is saying he had no choice but to kill that girl. I wish she didn't have to get shot either. But in a situation like that where it's a life on the line and you have 5 seconds to make a decision, no, you may not make the best choice. It's easy to make the best move in retrospect.

After looking at the video, I think he didn't understand the severity of the situation. That nigga rolled up while punches and kicks were being thrown and was treating it like it was a heated argument. I didn't hear any sirens or anything. By the time he realized it, the girl was about to be stabbed. That was his fuck up. But I ain't no expert on any of that shit. I just wish she didn't have to be shot over it.

>With the kind of budgets PDs have, they're supposed to be trained
>and competent enough to de-escalate a fight between some teenage
>girls without lethal force.

I got an issue with the way de-escalate has been used in this post. You don't de-escalate a fight in progress. You stop a fight in progress. You de-escalate a tense situation to prevent an all out brawl. If niggas are already fighting with weapons in their hands, it's already at the mountaintop. A bomb threat is a completely different situation than a person getting lunged at with a knife. You can de-escalate a threat. You can't de-escalate an explosion.

If this was a white neighborhood, chances are it would of wound up differently. Whether it's good or bad we'll never know.

Do police get the benefit of the doubt with me? Absolutely not.

Outside of that, yeah, I wish officers are able to handle situations without lives being lost. I wish police officers can be more qualified, instead of getting x months of training fresh off the street. Shit definitely needs to change

All that to say it ain't as black and white as some of y'all are making this out to be.

in order to stop crazy schoolfights, then let's talk.

Matter of fact, there's lots of parents and teachers on okp. I wanna hear all these stories about these schools everyone sends their children too where the kids are executed for fighting and they're cool with it.

Since death is such an "appropriate" response to kids fighting.

>Since death is such an "appropriate" response to kids fighting.

that started this subthread. it's all good

Or that she directed or asked anyone else to call them. It might have happened, but that's not for certain yet.

It's completely irrelevant.

if they cant deescalate or disarm a teenage girl?


Embarrassing

What if your daughter was having some kind of tough time mentally, and was wielding a knife?

She deserve to get popped FOUR TIMES without any attempt at de-escalation?

No taser, no tackle, no "drop your weapon!", not one shot, not two shots, not three shots, but four motherfucking shots??

Miss me with that fear mongering cop talk.


Was she the fucking terminator?? Jason Bourne??

Four shots?


So we can't expect cops to do ANTHING but shoot? That's all they got?



Sounds like a strong argument to defund to me.

And like so many people in this post have said I would want the cops to be braver, use a taser, and all the other things that would have spared this child life.

But I also don't think I have an expectation that the police would do any of those things if my child was in the act of trying to kill someone.

If this were my child I would be thinking I f*cked up LONG before it got to this point. I would be struggling with why was my child trying to kill someone just as much as why did the police shoot my kid while trying to kill someone.

And That's not saying the kid deserved to get shot.

Some of yall see this as black and white and its an easy situation to figure out but some of us are struggling with at what point is it okay to use lethal force on someone (even a kid) trying to kill someone else.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

And she grabbed the knife while defending herself? You're still looking at her and you like yall fucked up?

Ma'Khia was being confronted and bullied on in her home. Foster mom wasn't home, and police were already called. What other nonviolent steps could have been taken?? The foster mother admitted that they all had a bad history but their fights had never gotten this bad. So it sounds like at some point shit escalated to some fight to survive shit.

The framing of Ma'Khia as some stone-cold assassin is really problematic to me. I wish she were still alive for many reasons, but especially bc I think the fighting in the house (that we can't see) must have been wild to push Ma'Khia into violent survival mode like that.

Her voice sounded guttural in that clip; def blacked out. I felt that shit honestly





>
>If this were my child I would be thinking I f*cked up LONG
>before it got to this point. I would be struggling with why
>was my child trying to kill someone just as much as why did
>the police shoot my kid while trying to kill someone.
>

No one said she is a stone cold assasain. She is a girl attacking someone with a knife in what looks like attempting to murder her.

That's it. There was no self-defence when you are going after someone with a knife. That's regardless of how much bullying or even fighting that was happening before that. Trying to kill someone in front of the cops will likely get you shot and killed. I'd be doing a disservice to my kids if they didn't understand that.


The fact that she "blacked out" doesn't help her.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

This all happened in a vacuum, got it.

And you didn't answer my question re: what if the reason your child was even going after her someone with a knife was to defend herself from people who tried to kill her first. It's a valid question regardless of whether you suspect some serious shit must have gone down in that house before the cops arrived, as I happen to.

okp is basically one step below right wing twitter celebrating this cop for "saving a life" and I need to just accept that smh

>defend herself from people who tried to kill her first.

So that's the one they're sticking with, even though there's no evidence for it yet.

That Ma'Khia was some batshit psychokiller running around like they released the hound type shit and the cop showed up just in time to put her down, rt?

That's basically the narrative okp is running with to justify her extermination.

Even the foster mom who took care of everyone in question has attributed more blame to the 20+ year olds than okp.

straght up thin blue line shit

could have happened before that that excuses Ma'Khaia trying to stab her. That's my point. This is not an issue of a competing narrative, or coming up with a better explanation. She was about to seriously harm/kill her. That can't happen and has to be stopped in the moment. There's no explanation that makes that permissible.

What you're arguing amounts to saying that the girl in pink deserved to get got because she pissed off/was a bully/screamed at/told Ma'Lhaia xyz. None of any of that gives her the right to attempt to open her up with a knife, even if true (which we absolutely do not know yet.)

There's no need for all these hedges you keep making about what's confirmed or not.

I shared some reporting from WaPo in #173 with some info I hadn't seen yet, such as the fact that her grandmother was present in the house for a lot of the fighting and witnessed the other girl trying to stab Ma'Khia as well. Additionally, Ma'Khia called her grandmother for help and then later 911 for help, and stated in the call that those girls were there attacking her and her grandmother and trying to stab them.

So literally every sign points to those former foster girls fucking terrorizing Ma'Khia before the cops/neighbor's cameras picked up on anything, including her grandmother's eyewitness account. Everything you're saying Ma'Khia is guilty of re: stabbing attempts the other girl is guilty of as well according to the bystander who actually saw what went down.

But of course in the twitter meme age only the last seconds of video captured before she was shot dead matters. And btw, you guys are in total lockstep with the right wing on this shit and you better believe they are equally as committed as okp to putting all the blame on Ma'Khia despite her multiple calls for help bc the more insanely violent they can paint her, the more of a hero they can paint the cop. And yall fall for it. smh

in pink had it coming. I don't believe in that philosophy. I don't care what happened before that video. You can't just try to kill somebody when they're not doing anything to you in the moment. No.

ETA: Also, come off it - if Ma'Kahia was Mekhi or Michael you would NOT be arguing this way. It would be all about toxic masculinity and misogynoir against the woman in pink. For some reason that I don't understand some of y'all haze zero sympathy for the woman who was about to get opened up and I do not understand it at all.

get shot four times?


(hint: the answer is no)

Almost every single reply I've made in this post alludes to this:


*Police show up to mass shootings and don't even kill active shooters on sight like that. Why did Ma'Khia need to die?

*Teachers/resource staff break up fights like this all the time without killing any of the kids involved, educators in this very post are confirming. Why did Ma'Khia need to die?

*Police use all kinds of tackles, holds, and other manouveurs to subdue/disarm violent protestors and other combatants. Why did Ma'Khia need to die?

*Police even use all kinds of tackles, holds, and other manouveurs on (usually Black) people that are NOT being violent. Why did Ma'Khia need to die?

*The police officer in question initially stood there and watched them fight instead of commanding Ma'Khia drop her weapon or tackling and disarming her. Why did Ma'Khia need to die?

etc etc

You are creating a false dichotomy. Many other outcomes were possible in which Ma'Khia and everyone else involved remained alive - including your beloved woman in pink. Altering any of the assailants' genders wouldn't change my analysis.

And as it happens, Ohio's governor signed a 'Stand Your Ground' bill (SB 175) into law just a few months ago:

https://grahamlpa.com/2021/01/14/ohio-stand-your-ground-law/

https://www.beaconjournal.com/story/news/2021/04/06/ohios-black-leaders-sound-alarms-over-new-stand-your-ground-law/7089980002/

which loosened the 'duty to retreat' and concerned Black leaders because it could lead to increased vigilantism and threats to Black lives. How ironic that this new law, from my non-lawyer read, would've actually protected Ma'Khia's actions in a court of law... if only this woefully incompetent police officer had chosen to actually serve and protect by de-escalating the situation instead of opting to engage in police brutality. That's your boy tho. smh

Is there some sort of fantasy some women have about murdering your meangirl bully from middle school or high school? That might explain why there's somewhat of a gender divide on this. I suppose most men don't have real bad memories of meangrils from when we were younger the way alot of women do. I'm really trying to figure out why y'all think this is no big deal and/or ok. I'm legit baffled why the woman in pink is being portrayed as deserving this.

One, that was a 16 yo girl that got shot by a grown white man police officer. That has all the main ingredients for a gender warz stew. I 100% wish that girl didn't have to lose her life over that. But we all know if that was a grown ass man attempting to stab that girl it'll be a lot less "why didn't they tackle him?" or "it's just a steak knife" comments.

Two, police don't have the benefit of the doubt anymore. They lost that shit a long time ago. So if they shoot anybody it better be a damn good reason.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2021/04/23/makhia-bryant-columbus-ohio-deadly-police-shooting-jones-dnt-ebof-vpx.cnn/video/playlists/top-news-videos/

looking at the latest video there is another grown man that appears to be trying to kick the young woman on the ground that Ma'Khia was originally tussling with. The girl in the pink appeared to be trying to walk away and holding a puppy. This situation could have been totally different INSIDE the house but it appears that once people moved outside and were trying to "de-escalate" and leave some people had other emotions and ideas.

I'm legit baffled why the woman in pink is being
>portrayed as deserving this.


Literally NO ONE is saying this.


People have posed a few hypothetical situations that might offer other reasons for her behavior other than "mass murderer"

Why? Not to say the girl in pink had it coming.

But to point out that there could be some fucking nuance here, and maybe MaKhia didn't deserve 4 bullets to the chest by some newbie cop.


THERE HAS TO BE A BETTER WAY then cops reaching for their guns.


Thats it.


And yeah, if he could reasonably tackle someone rather than shoot them? He fucking should.

If he can taze? He fucking should.

If he can announce to get her to stop? He fucking should.


And if he and you guys are hell bent on him living out some fucking Law and Order fantasy or whatever...why not shoot once?


Honestly, those should be the options even if she is just trying to killer her because the cop isn't a fucking judge.


But adding the possibility of nuance...like self defense, mental issues, etc....helps make the point...espeically if your default position is a cop can just kill


** side note. I like how the "what if it was your daugher" are okay with this dunce letting bullets spray also in the victims direction. She could have gotten hit as well.


The overall point? Cops shooting people...especially BLACK people...needs to stop being so normal.


How so many on OkayPlayer are arguing against this...and trying to claim bullshit gender wars or something...is fucking beyond me.

this was a fight transpiring in real time rather than some random act of violence.

Again: Ma'Khia was chilling in her home; these women who do not live there show up, loiter, and pick a fight with her (by girl in pink's own admission to the foster mom); Ma'Khia first calls a family member for help (her Grandma), the fighting worsens and Grandma later confirms these women were trying TO STAB both her and Ma'Khia; Ma'Khia now CALLS THE POLICE for help, also stating in the 911 call that those young women were attacking and trying to stab them, etc.

^What else would you expect a teen getting jumped in her home to do at this point?? Sit there and pray the cops come before the young women kill her and her grandma? She did everything a kid is supposed to do and was literally fighting for her fucking life. AGAINST TWO ADULT WOMEN NEARLY TWICE HER AGE.

And re your ad hominem attempt, no: I share very little in common with Ma'Khia, I was never bullied by other girls a day in my life (tho a few White boys gave me grief), and I grew up in a 2-parent household (with it's own issues). But I don't need to relate to Ma'Khia's experience to value her life, and neither do you. Multiple men and women in this post agree this officer used excessive force, so the backlash doesn't appear gendered to me at all. Where I see a stronger split is between right-wingers (cop is a "life saver") and everybody else (Ma'Khia's life mattered).

>this was a fight transpiring in real time rather than some
>random act of violence.
>
>Again: Ma'Khia was chilling in her home; these women who do
>not live there show up, loiter, and pick a fight with her

They told Ma'Khia to clean up and make her bed, it was the home of the foster mother that had raised all of them so in effect these women were her foster sisters. no one is accusing Ma'Khia of being a "mass murderer" but she was in foster care for a reason probably more to do with her mother than her but these kids usually have all kinds of issues.

> (by
>girl in pink's own admission to the foster mom); Ma'Khia first
>calls a family member for help (her Grandma), the fighting
>worsens and Grandma later confirms these women were trying TO
>STAB both her and Ma'Khia; Ma'Khia now CALLS THE POLICE for
>help, also stating in the 911 call that those young women were
>attacking and trying to stab them, etc.
>
>^What else would you expect a teen getting jumped in her home
>to do at this point?? Sit there and pray the cops come before
>the young women kill her and her grandma? She did everything a
>kid is supposed to do and was literally fighting for her
>fucking life. AGAINST TWO ADULT WOMEN NEARLY TWICE HER AGE.

she wasn't "in her home" when the police showed up. the other 2 women were 20 and 22, not "TWICE HER AGE"

>And re your ad hominem attempt, no: I share very little in
>common with Ma'Khia, I was never bullied by other girls a day
>in my life (tho a few White boys gave me grief), and I grew up
>in a 2-parent household (with it's own issues). But I don't
>need to relate to Ma'Khia's experience to value her life, and
>neither do you. Multiple men and women in this post agree this
>officer used excessive force, so the backlash doesn't appear
>gendered to me at all. Where I see a stronger split is between
>right-wingers (cop is a "life saver") and everybody else
>(Ma'Khia's life mattered).
>

20 + 22; I'd been using 20+ earlier in post but I did see folks start to quote one of the girls was ~28 here and elsewhere and should have confirmed before repeating it. Ironically, the only article I've seen so far quoting their exact names and ages is this Canadian media report:

https://globalnews.ca/news/7786124/makhia-bryant-fatal-shooting/

But other than that, the sequence of events as I understand it is from WaPo and CNN reporting linked elsewhere in this post which incl quotes from her 911 call and eyewitness accounts.

And no, I don't share your loose definition of "home" as it applies to those girls. Ma'Khia was a minor and was in her foster home, period. Those other girls were just visiting. She was shot outside the home but they were all still on the property, which has legal implications if we take into acct Ohio's Stand Your Ground law (which I linked descriptions of above) and its provisions about whether the self-defense is occuring at a person's home.

I acknowledged in an earlier post that the reason for this particular fight is petty, but imho that's just a testament to the immaturity of the girls involved. It doesn't diminish how viciously they were fighting. Additionally, all of those fighting are or were in foster care "for a reason" at some point, so whatever ad hominem you're trying to set up to demonize Ma'Khia don't forget to do it for the other young women too.

talking points lol

edit: I see you've been arguing both sides throughout the post so not directing at you personally but rather any general defenses of the cop or Ma'Khia's attackers.

>So that's the one they're sticking with, even though there's
>no evidence for it yet.

There is very little evidence either way.

Especially when Johnny Trigger Finger pulled up.


So I'm asking- what if it was YOUR daughter (because thats the shit we are doing I guess) who was going at someone with a knife for some reason other than just attacking someone.

Mental issues.

Self Defense.

Finally had enough of the bullies.


Whatever.


You want your daughter shot FOUR TIMES or nah?


Do you want the cop to try and descalate? Taze? Bean bag gun? Tackle her? Talk her down? Announce himself?


Or do you want her shot?


And if so, how many times is too many times?


If you are okay with your daughter being shot FOUR TIMES, is 5 too many? 6?


The point is the "what if it was your daughter" fear mongering horse shit goes BOTH WAYS.


And if all the cop has is "knife? I shoot four times on sight" then that is not protect and serve.

That is some robocop dystopian shit. He saw a black girl with a knife and unloaded.



He had no context, nothing.

He didn't try anything else either.


So lets assume your daughter is having some type of mental break and is wielding a knife.


Do you want the cop to show up and shoot her FOUR TIMES on sight or nah?


**BONUS QUESTION** You think a white girl gets shot up or nah?

I seem to be one of the only people who sees that as highly plausible, given the foster mom's and girl in pink's descriptions of what happened and the dynamic.

And that's too bad.

There's all kinds of reasons she could be wielding a knife.


The question is should johnny law show up and be judge, jury, and executioner immediately upon arrival without trying ANYTHING else.


defending herself is "hypothetical and without support", but the vision of her as some fucking mass killer is totally acceptable at face value to these same people.

Its "crazy" to think she was defending herself with a knife, but its okay she was shot FOUR FUCKING TIMES?


After everything...everything...you got folks in here parroting fox news and whataboutisms.


Thats a white girl with a knife she is home right now. Hell, if it was a white guy with an AR15 they stop at burger king.

Black girl with a knife gets shot FOUR times and dudes in here on some "you can't really monday morning quarterback this"

jesus.

Should he have “tried something else”, and what should that something else have been?

Did people all see Tenet and think it was a documentary?

You win.

The cop should be judge, jury, and executioner if a black person happens to have a weapon.

FOUR shots like she was batman or some shit.


Imagine being the guy cracking jokes about people who are saying "the cop shouldn't have shot that black girl FOUR TIMES"


Imagine being the guy who finds snark in that.

And I answer your question. It isn't self-defense when you go AFTER someone with a knife. That's not how self-defense works.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Again, like I said to Tek, you guys are just set on viewing Ma'Khia's actions as some random act of violence as opposed to part of fight that was happening in real time.

Whatever tho.

I studied both in law school.

Going after an unarmed person, even someone who instigated a fight with you, with a knife is not self-defense or standing your ground.

You are trying to justify her trying to kill someone and there isn't justification for it.

You are trying to force this situation into a black and white scenario but it is possible that there is no justification for her trying to kill that other girl AND there is no justification for the cop shooting her.





>
>Again, like I said to Tek, you guys are just set on viewing
>Ma'Khia's actions as some random act of violence as opposed to
>part of fight that was happening in real time.
>
>Whatever tho.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

I was curious to know to what degree this false dichotomy you guys are fixated on (i.e. that the ONLY possible outcomes here once police arrived to stop the fight were either Ma'Khia dying or Girl-In-Pink dying) would stand up against what the law seems to say. I honestly think you guys are painting things more black and white than anybody else.

Personally, I don't believe anybody would have died here had the policing been competent, and I don't believe anybody SHOULD have died here based on the non-lethal tactics police frequently use to subdue fights/violent actors in other settings and the fact that teachers/staff aren't killing kids in school settings to stop fights like this either. I'm not justifying Ma'Khia trying to kill anyone bc I believe that even if the officer had actually tried and failed to disarm Ma'Khia and her knife made contact with Girl-In-Pink, it's unlikely Girl-In-Pink would have died from her injury. We've argued already about the risk Ma'Khia posed to that girl; the majority of stab wounds are not lethal. For example, I found some studies since our back-and-forth where the mortality rates ranged from low single digits to 35% depending on the severity of the stab wound (and treatment, study objectives, etc):

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamasurgery/fullarticle/2748060 (n=17,245 trauma Level I and II trauma patients)
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2911111/ (retrospective study reviewing 750 stab wounds that happened to 270 prisoners)


But besides that, the lawyers I linked describe that:

"Under Ohio law, as it exists until April 4, 2021, people are justified in using deadly force in self-defense only under the following situations:

1)They were not at fault in creating the situation;
2)There was a threat of imminent or immediate death;
3)There was a not a reasonable means of retreat; and
4)The use of such force was reasonable."

and

"In Ohio, there is a legal presumption that a person acts in self-defense when he or she uses force against anyone who unlawfully enters their residence or their vehicle. The new law eliminates the “duty to retreat” as long as an individual is in a place where they lawfully have a right to be.

What Is Allowed—and What Is Not—Under New Stand Your Ground Law
Ohio’s stand your ground law takes effect on April 4, 2021. When it does, the use of deadly force in self-defense by Ohioans will be justified under the following circumstances:

*The person is not the aggressor
*The person believes they are in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm
*The person is in a place where they have a legal right to be (i.e., they are not trespassing)"

Given what we know about this fight, (I'll repost my summary from #187 but I'm sure you don't trust it so if you're actually interested in/have time to talk about this feel free to summarize yourself from the reporting that's been shared throughout the post so far):

"Ma'Khia was chilling in her home; these women who do not live there show up, loiter, and pick a fight with her (by girl in pink's own admission to the foster mom); Ma'Khia first calls a family member for help (her Grandma), the fighting worsens and Grandma later confirms these women were trying TO STAB both her and Ma'Khia; Ma'Khia now CALLS THE POLICE for help, also stating in the 911 call that those young women were attacking and trying to stab them, etc."

^How would Ma'Khia's actions *not* be considered self-defense under Ohio law?? I'm asking you as Buddy the lawyer not Buddy the okp btw (hoping there's a difference lol).

Look at the self-defense statute you cited.

There is no immediate and imminent threat of death. There was also a reasonable means of retreat by the time the police were there (which matters for self-defense but not stand your ground).

To put it simply, you will never be able to claim self-defense when you chase someone down. Especially an unarmed person. Even if 1 minute or 30 seconds earlier someone threatened or attacked you.

Sef-defense just doesn't work that way.

You keep missing my point because I don't think anyone HAD to die and I think a more competent cop could have handled it better. That being said I also think its possible that the use of deadly force might be justified given the girl was being attacked with deadly force.

Think of it another way, if a grown man had attacked that girl with a knife and a cop didn't use deadly force arguing that he didn't think knife attack was going to be fatal, we would all be losing our minds.



>I was curious to know to what degree this false dichotomy you
>guys are fixated on (i.e. that the ONLY possible outcomes here
>once police arrived to stop the fight were either Ma'Khia
>dying or Girl-In-Pink dying) would stand up against what the
>law seems to say. I honestly think you guys are painting
>things more black and white than anybody else.
>
>Personally, I don't believe anybody would have died here had
>the policing been competent, and I don't believe anybody
>SHOULD have died here based on the non-lethal tactics police
>frequently use to subdue fights/violent actors in other
>settings and the fact that teachers/staff aren't killing kids
>in school settings to stop fights like this either. I'm not
>justifying Ma'Khia trying to kill anyone bc I believe that
>even if the officer had actually tried and failed to disarm
>Ma'Khia and her knife made contact with Girl-In-Pink, it's
>unlikely Girl-In-Pink would have died from her injury. We've
>argued already about the risk Ma'Khia posed to that girl; the
>majority of stab wounds are not lethal. For example, I found
>some studies since our back-and-forth where the mortality
>rates ranged from low single digits to 35% depending on the
>severity of the stab wound (and treatment, study objectives,
>etc):
>
>https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamasurgery/fullarticle/2748060
> (n=17,245 trauma Level I and II trauma patients)
>https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2911111/ (retrospective study
>reviewing 750 stab wounds that happened to 270 prisoners)
>
>
>But besides that, the lawyers I linked describe that:
>
>"Under Ohio law, as it exists until April 4, 2021, people are
>justified in using deadly force in self-defense only under the
>following situations:
>
>1)They were not at fault in creating the situation;
>2)There was a threat of imminent or immediate death;
>3)There was a not a reasonable means of retreat; and
>4)The use of such force was reasonable."
>
>and
>
>"In Ohio, there is a legal presumption that a person acts in
>self-defense when he or she uses force against anyone who
>unlawfully enters their residence or their vehicle. The new
>law eliminates the “duty to retreat” as long as an
>individual is in a place where they lawfully have a right to
>be.
>
>What Is Allowed—and What Is Not—Under New Stand Your
>Ground Law
>Ohio’s stand your ground law takes effect on April 4, 2021.
>When it does, the use of deadly force in self-defense by
>Ohioans will be justified under the following circumstances:
>
>*The person is not the aggressor
>*The person believes they are in imminent danger of death or
>great bodily harm
>*The person is in a place where they have a legal right to be
>(i.e., they are not trespassing)"
>
>Given what we know about this fight, (I'll repost my summary
>from #187 but I'm sure you don't trust it so if you're
>actually interested in/have time to talk about this feel free
>to summarize yourself from the reporting that's been shared
>throughout the post so far):
>
>"Ma'Khia was chilling in her home; these women who do not live
>there show up, loiter, and pick a fight with her (by girl in
>pink's own admission to the foster mom); Ma'Khia first calls a
>family member for help (her Grandma), the fighting worsens and
>Grandma later confirms these women were trying TO STAB both
>her and Ma'Khia; Ma'Khia now CALLS THE POLICE for help, also
>stating in the 911 call that those young women were attacking
>and trying to stab them, etc."
>
>^How would Ma'Khia's actions *not* be considered self-defense
>under Ohio law?? I'm asking you as Buddy the lawyer not Buddy
>the okp btw (hoping there's a difference lol).


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

called 911 and essentially stated there was in the call?? And before calling 911, called her grandmother, again out of fear for her life?? Plus, there's her grandmother's eyewitness account confirming Ma'Khia's claim that the girls were also armed with knives and trying to stab them as well. If Ma'Khia's stabbing attempt is considered a threat to Girl-in-Pink's life, how can the girls' stabbing attempt not be considered a threat to Ma'Khia's life? From a legal perspective, does it matter how many minutes passed between when 911 was called and when police arrived? As in, the amount of time between each side's attempts?

And re: means of retreat, the lawyers say that the law/SB175 as it came into effect on April 4 2021 *removed* the requirement for #3:

"The law explicitly states that:

A trier of fact shall not consider the possibility of retreat as a factor in determining whether or not a person who used force in self-defense, defense of another, or defense of that person’s residence reasonably believed that the force was necessary to prevent injury, loss, or risk to life or safety."

I mean, wasn't that the main change to the law?


edit: also, the assailants' genders are meaningless imho. I would be making these same arguments if Ma'Khia was instead a 300lb man named Leroy bc I would still think he shouldve been tackled/restrained/disarmed instead of shot dead like that. The judge-jury-executioner thing is very problematic to me.

good luck trying to get them to think differently

even while being stabbed.

These officers were properly trained, and they physically engaged which was the difference. Both cops were stabbed multiple times at close range, and not once
did they draw their firearms.

https://youtu.be/mqfBR2isgKg

The cop who shot Bryant was not properly trained, and he didn’t totally understand
the situation at hand. He jumped to an unnecessary action to stop the attack.


So many thoughts and perceptions are tossed around when the situation
involves a black person and white police officer.

Did the officer jump to that conclusion because the attacker was black?

Would his approach have been different had the attacker been white?

Due to the current social climate in America it’s very difficult to give the officer
the benefit of the doubt.

proper de escalation technique.

niggas that probably won't even take a punch is expecting niggas to get stabbed like "Oh you can walk that off."

Maybe I'm wrong for not expecting police officers to be super humans.

and understood that a gun wasn’t needed because they were not being
threatened by a gun. There was no need for a GUN defense.

That’s what you’re not understanding.

And the police officers were the actual victims.

There are several examples of officers using pepper spray, tasers, and tackles
to halt a knife attack ...from minor attacks to extreme attacks.

It’s just that Americans feel the only option is to use a gun, and that has to do
with perception, training and prejudice.

directly by someone who has a weapon that's not a gun, but the officer does have a gun, they'll be a little more willing to let things go on a bit further.

But that wasn't the case here. The woman in pink was unarmed and pinned up against a car. He had to save her, and he did.

He shot here 4 times, and he was in reach of both girls.

He chose a violent end vicious way to halt the situation,
and could have even shot the other girl.

You’re proving the mentality of this country.


It was 100 percent bad policing.

these pigs are chomping at the bit to grab that grip, PERIOD

https://www.wafb.com/story/30259706/accused-teen-killer-will-be-tried-as-an-adult/

a coworkers son killed a kid with a steak knife. kid came over talking shit, his son grabbed a knife. when the kid lunged at him trying to punch him, his son stabbed him in the chest, slicing a heart valve, he died.

just saying, calling steak knives harmless takes away from your whole argument.

But they're def less lethal than gunshot wounds and certain other injuries. Many of them don't puncture deeply enough to kill someone on the spot. Which has implications in terms of risk or threat assessment.

That's all I was trying to get at

Let’s react off our immediate feelings to headlines instead

Headlines that conveniently leave out key details (as we’ve seen in this case).

Think about what bullets do... they put small holes into the body and, if they're in the right place, they can kill you from loss of blood (if not other reasons).

You can do just as much damage with a knife, whether it's a chef's knife or a switchblade.

this ‘does that mean they deserved’ retort comes up often, its an extremely odd take on things

black people? do they have training that brings temperature down?

my guess is cop training is aim, fire, ready.

technically the lovely teen who was shot/killed
and the young woman in pink who might have been stabbed
shared a foster mom, so what would she have wanted to happen?
ridiculous choice...

with all these cases, feel like how when I was coming up Black parents
wanted us to go in to certain professional fields that lacked representation
wish more of the white kids I grew up with who had some empathy
went in to law enforcement to at least balance out the bullies

No, I'm not making this about me.

I bring this up to denote my relevant experience to different pieces of this. Because that's how people tend to filter the facts of a given situation. Even if we don't immediately, overtly realize the steps we go through en route to a conclusion. And I think that there are multiple pieces that need serious attention.

I was stabbed in a fight in my early twenties, and I was just fine. It was a deep cut that required stitches. Thing is, it was in my right tricep, and had I been throwing a punch with that arm at that exact moment- which all I was doing, because I was fighting three guys- he'd have stuck me in my rib cage, and possibly my lungs. He was definitely swinging with bad intentions.

To kfine's points above, comparing blunt force injuries to stabbings, I suffered a significantly worse injury in that fight, when some smashed a concrete block over my head to end it. The head wound also required stitches, and I had a concussion. I didn't even realize I'd been stabbed until my, uh, "friends" pointed it out after the fight.

People can survive a lot of shit. But it doesn't take much to change those outcomes. An inch, a second on either side of a given blow, and it's suddenly a far more serious issue.

To the point of the educators above, I've never witnessed teachers breaking up far worse, but I've read and heard the stories. So clearly, they have to address these situations without guns, and seem to do so without killing anyone.

I'm also a human being, and don't always make the immediately correct choice. I can't even say the immediately correct words in a given conversation 100% of the time. But then, I'm not trained for these things. A cop is, or ostensibly should be. I profile cops. Have no love for a single one, and though I've got one mind blowing cop story of a cool ass cop who could have fucked my world up and didn't, I've had, and seen, enough interactions that range from bad to horrible to horrific to think that he very likely wouldn't have made the choice he did if I were a young black kid instead of a White/Mexican blend.

So I view cops with extreme prejudice, and I think we all should.

******

I've also been in the foster care system, and prior to that, I had far more abusive family members. The last home I was in, I went awol because my foster mom threatened to shoot my roommate over a piece of my cake, which I said he could have. Foster parents are a mixed bag, and when they're bad, holy hell are they bad.

So I relate to what she was dealing with, at least to what I've read in here. I have not had the time to thoroughly investigate all of those details. But if foster mom was calling in these grown ass woman to come over and fuck with Ma'Khiah, then I got not qualms about one or all of them getting her full fury. Because I know what that shit is like. Not exactly, but I've been in enough similarly abusive situations to know what that boiling point feels like, because I guarantee that anything she'd have done in retaliation, she'd have been the villain, and all that comes with that status.

Everything I've read leading up to this is fucked up, and from what i can tell, this child was failed in monumental ways. Up to and including the pig who shot her.

The issue I have here is, I'm not all in on condemning the pig for this. Watching the video, the speed at which all this happened makes this a bit more complicated. Because at that moment, his duty would be to protect the person who is potentially about to be seriously harmed.

At first thought, I don't think it's reasonable to expect him to try disarm her in that split second moment either. This was lighting fast.

But then, as has been pointed out above, there's a serious discrepancy here, when white males with guns, who have already murdered people in cold blood, are given kids gloves. They're handled with care, as though their lives are precious and to be protected at ANY cost.

Someone above said that we've been conditioned. I think that's dead on. Police are given far too much of the benefit of the doubt in too many situations, particularly when they intersect with Black people- which is fucking often. We're also conditioned, to some degree, to an "eye for an eye" rule of thumb. And there's a place for that, I think, but I think we're collectively, definitely too far in one direction on this.

I'm a father. So if someone, anyone, for any reason, is coming at my children with that knife like that, I can say with honesty, my first second and third emotions regarding the person coming for them are "fuck em". Get them. I don't care one bit what happens to them, as long as my kids are safe.

Which underscores a huge problem with that question in this case:

The question, "what if that's your child" removes, I think for many, all objectivity. Because I'm not at all objective when it comes to my kids and their safety. If you're swinging a knife at my babies, fuck you *and* your parents for all I care.

Another thing that underscores this question is, if Ma'Khia were my child, I'd want everyone involved to burn for this. And no, I'm not saying everyone else is just like me, but I strongly suspect that I'm far from alone there. I'd absolutely think that pig was out of pocket and should have attempted non lethal means of handling this.

Because the "what if that's your child" applies to both of them- and I'd side with my child, and demand greater this or less that on either side of this coin. I suspect most of us would feel the same, to varying degrees.

As has been mentioned, these cops can't fucking wait to kill a person of color. That's the first instinct, it seems.

I think this case does serve a sound reminder that police policies need a dramatic overhaul, to the point where whatever that resulting entity is should bear little resemblance to what we have here.

The question here that needs to be answered is, what else could have reasonably been done? Because if the first instinct, and the training, for a situation like this is "shoot to kill", then we are ensuring that this will always be the outcome for people of color in these situations, because police will magically turn on their caution brains when it's a white man in the situation.

My immediate reaction to this was, what the fuck else was he supposed to do? And I see that I'm not alone in that. Because, as has been said, we've been conditioned. Not all of us, clearly, but too many of us. That's a sobering thought.

Which underscores the fact that police have been conditioned as well. This IS what they do, by design. It's a cowboy mentality that is not conducive to the betterment of the society they *should* be intended to actually serve.

Because I do think this cop was just doing his job to the best of his ability- and that's where the problem lies here. It's not a rotten apple, or even a barrel, or an orchard full of them. The soil itself is bad. The ideology is bad, and we have better examples of better policing from which to draw. We have examples of educators tasked with dealing with such situations, that do not result in the deaths of students, from which to draw.

Yes, this happened very quickly. I do understand the basic, initial analysis of this clip, because again: conditioning.

But there's a very long list of reasons why we shouldn't accept this.

Not from them and certainly not from ourselves. As long as our collective society accepts this, this is what we- and, sadly, the Ma'Khia Bryant's of the world- will get.

Especially given the multiple ways you can relate to everyone in the situation.

I think your insights make a lot of sense, especially the multiple facets of our conditioning.

I'd also say we might all be conditioned by movies/tv when it comes to stabbings too, lol

I just read this post and fought back tears at your personal story.

Also, I think the nuance with which you dissect this situation is just so thoughtful. Having lurked in this post for a few days but not replied, it seems this is the first or at least the best post to appropriately consider the perspectives of every party involved. I'm inspired by your take here, really I am.

I thought about messaging you directly to say this, but I want to say it publicly because I've said some dumb and nasty shit to you through the years (as you have to me lol). And usually we're arguing over dumb shit, like, pro wrestling or that I called Kawhi Leonard "bitchmade" (I was way wrong and apologized after he won in Toronto).

But I say all that to say I'm really sorry for what our "online" relationship has come to. Your post made my day and I was swiftly reminded that you're a real person with real issues, just like myself and everyone else. I'm a dad too. I didn't even know you were a father as well. That's a fine enough reminder that I should be behaving in a more flattering way than calling strangers names on the internet.

This was brave of you. Thanks for writing all of this. I truly mean it.

moment.

I think that's the most damning part of this video.

I went back and watched after I made my prior post, and the cop shows no urgency at all while he sees two girls come running, even after Ma'Kiah absolutely trucks the first girl.

No need to draw at that point- but physically stepping in to intervene or subdue the attacker, who was Ma'Khia, would have sufficed.

This is where he had a chance to do something. Anything at all.

Then he draws, and yells "get down, get down, get down".

Not to a specific person.
No command to drop the knife.

But he DID have time to yell "hey, hey, hey, get down, get down, get down".

So to the questions of, when did he have time to shout a command or what have you, that was the time. And he used it to yell "hey, get down" multiple times. Not DROP THE WEAPON! Not STOP POLICE.

Not any number of things that could have potentially stopped her in her tracks.

When he says "get down", he'd already drawn his weapon. So at that point he intended to use his weapon. And the words were, "get down". The interpretation I see here is, he's telling people around Ma'Khia to get down. He'd already decided to shoot.

Sounds like he's telling everyone to get down.

So we can disregard any notion that he had no time and no ability to do anything but shoot her.

Let's choose to be extremely charitable to the officer, and say that he, in that moment, chose to shoot Ma'Khia solely to save the life of the woman in pink.

Cool. He saved a life.

Again, that's a very charitable take.

The issue here is, his actions/inaction up to that point, helped that moment arrive.

And it's clear that he had time to shout clear commands before he shot.

It's clear that he had a moment to attempt to physically intervene prior to that. So even in a take that's charitable toward the shooting itself, we still arrive at facts that are decidedly unfavorable toward the office. I wouldn't necessarily say he was negligent, but he absolutely failed to yell anything resembling a clear command. He failed to exert any real effort to contain the situation.

What he did, frankly, was panic. He was not in control of even himself. And we can be charitable and take a right wing talking point and say, well, they're human, and you're not in that situation, etc.

And, being charitable with that, it still begs the question:

What's the point of training, in that case?
Was he even trained for situations like this?
What did that training consists of?

Because this doesn't look like training kicking in.

This looks like "HOLYSHITWHATDOIDOWHATDOIDOFUCKMEWHATDOIDO?"

Being charitable, the best possible light here is that this particular officer was completely unfit for this sort of moment.

The reason I took the approach of being charitable here, is to see what this looks like when we grant the officer a few caveats. For me, that still results in a very bad look for the officer.

And if we grant those caveats and he still looks, at best, simply incompetent, I think that's enough to shut the door of most, if not all of those arguments that say he did the right thing.

I think everyone agrees the situation could have been better handled.

I think the disagreement is whether he was authorized to do what he did.

It would be my wish and my hope that a cop would not shoot a 15 year old girl, but at the same time, it is not surprising to me that a cop would shoot someone attempting to murder someone else.



Its not even a disagreement so much as some people talking about how the world should be and the other group is talking about how the world is.

Been protected without shooting that child dead. This woulda been a perfect taser incident or even some kind of running tackle. I am not convinced that a White girl woulda got shot like that

https://www.yahoo.com/news/man-call-911-shot-10-143707111.html


He's in critical condition and hasn't died yet. I have read several articles and still can't find any reason why he'd be shot "10 times". I mean, a single shot could maybe be defensible altho the cop sees him holding what he thinks is a gun to his own head... How the fuck he gonna shoot him 10 times tho?

The events that have transpired in the week since the verdict are clear indictments of the entire criminal justice system