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Forum nameGeneral Discussion
Topic subjectYes, I did. It's not like she grabbed a milk crate and megaphone
Topic URLhttp://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13429414&mesg_id=13429483
13429483, Yes, I did. It's not like she grabbed a milk crate and megaphone
Posted by Cold Truth, Thu Apr-08-21 02:00 PM
She didn't yell or go off or any of that.

She simply said, "fyi, that's a very hetero-normative statement you made. here's why."

I don't know if the term "called out" draws up more combative imagery that that, but just being advised that you're making an error qualifies as "called out" in my book, regardless of how it's done.

>I didn't quite follow* but it seems like from what you
>described if you surveyed 100 gay men there could be a fair
>split between your POV and the person you were talking to.
>Correct me if I am wrong. I mean its great that someone gave
>you a different way to look at it but I am not sure one POV
>should be privileged over the other.

I'd say it is.

A. I'm not part of the LGBTQ community. She is.
B. Even if others in the community disagree, her point is valid:

I was setting an arbitrary line around the portrayal of community of which I am not a member.

>I bring this up because I had a recently had an incident
>recently when I was talking to someone recently and I used the
>term "Disabled Person" and the abled person I was talking to
>"corrected" me and said, "It's actually Person with
>Disabilities because its 'Disabled Person' defines a person by
>their disability". That irked me and I spent some time
>thinking about it whether that was just my pride at being
>corrected but I think its more than that.

>Some people don't
>like being called a color and some people take pride in the
>term "Black". However, there are always people who take it
>upon themselves and speak up for all black people.

Can't attest to the tone of that discussion, but I think it is your pride. I think people are resistent to rethinking the way they view the world around them, because it doesn't directly effect them, so they don't necessarily see the harm it causes.

To a degree, that's understandable, because if you can't see it, you can't see it. But the resistance to being shown is an issue in and of itself. Further, if the net result of that change is I/you/me/we become somewhat better educated and more sensitive toward marginalized groups, what's the actual problem, apart from not wanting to conform.

>For example, if a person corrected someone who said "Black"
>and said well its actually "African-American" or vice versus I
>would find that annoying because I don't think its settled and
>I have heard the arguments on both side.

Understood, but there's some nuance here.

I'm not Black. So that's not really a discussion for *me* to have.
But you are, so you have, at a minumum, an actual say in the matter, because of your direct and intimately relevant and lived experience on the subject. At that level, there's a genuine discussion to be had IMO.

But if my miscellaneous looking, non-Black ass tried to correct you or any other Black person on that? I don't really have a place in that discussion from where I stand. At best, my role is to shut the fuck up and listen, particularly since my family is Black, so that I can better find ways to advocate for them.

I'd argue that my proximity there does give me some dogs in some fights , but not every fight, and to a limited degree, at best.

Hell, I'm very aware of the obvious issue (small i, to be sure, because of the context) me explaining this shit to you, as a Black man.

>Now look, If I said "Disabled Person" and a person with
>disabilities told me that they didn't like the term and
>preferred personally "Person with Disabilities" that would be
>one thing. If a non-disable person warned me that some people
>with disabilities don't like being referred to as "disabled
>person" that would be useful to know and glad someone told me.
> But for a able bodied person to correct me on language on a
>POV that isn't universally accepted as the right POV truly did
>irk me.

Ah, ok. Yeah there's a bit more context there. I may have left out that my friend is LGBTQ, so that may alter your response some.

>Anyway, you didn't ask for all that but you reminded me of
>that incident and I would say, it may not be a reason to beat
>yourself up over it.

I look at it as an honest mistaken that could have been avoided had I put more thought into it. I- we, really- are generally surrounded by loved ones from many walks of life, and while it doesn't encroach on the level of, say, white guilt over, well fucking everything, I think it's healthy to have a measure of reflection on the seemingly small ways we tend to say or do even the most innocently misguided things.

I feel this way in large part because I see the gross ways in which so many overlook, ignore, or excuse bigger, immediately impactful aggressions on a daily basis. The net effect for me was... I really want to do better, in general.