Because I want to fight about Hip-Hop on a Wednesday and no better Warz than Drake base Generations Warz.

Only two choices because I really don't see any middle ground on this.


This is a question of LL Cool J's place on the Hip-Hop Mt. Rushmore as it is about Drake.

Who you got?

Poll question: Oldheads: Can yall at least admit Drake is on LLs level?

Poll result (40 votes) Wat?, heck no! Wheelchair Jimmy seeing no parts of Todd Smith! (23 votes) Vote Of course, Drake has decades of Jams like LL. (17 votes) Vote

He could never be on prime LL’s level. LL blazed the path, set the blueprint. Others just followed.

I don't fuck with Drake at ALL.

Can you post some Drake as LL's "The Ripper" type flows, I'm seriously interested?

I honestly haven't heard anything like that from him.

and i'm not talking about skill, because rap itself was different so i'm adjusting for skill.

what i'm talking about is their musical output, popularity, etc.

and the reason i'd put Drake above at this point is because Drake's catalog is MUCH more respected than LL's.

LL has huge songs, etc. but his WHOLE albums don't have the same cache as Drake's do.

assuming you eat meat, if money wasnt an issue where would you rather get dinner

but to answer: sometimes i want steak, sometimes i want a Big Mac and fries.

can't eat steak everyday (unless you want gout).

Sometimes popular nouns are trash

There's no doubt that Drake has had a continuous string of big hits. But does he have the same impact & importance to his generation that LL had to ours?

My personal answer is "No." I don't hate Drake but I'm admittedly biased towards my own generation's artists. I honestly don't know the answer but I'm here for the debate.

Sure there might have been competition and beef between individual emcees or whatever....
but as a FAN?? A kid growing up with hip-hop (the music, the culture, the everything...)?!?!
We were basically on some "YES PLEASE MORE!" ....

LL could do no wrong....
Like...I think that Shark's Fin track he dropped was the first time I was on some "Pass" shit when it comes to LL.
Drake though?? .... yeah...nah.... I'm sure he got fans that would/have jumped ship without batting an eye.

about (or use to talk about) Biggie, Jay-Z & Nas.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

go to criticism for Cole

all my nephews and nieces love Cole.

and Cole is back w/ the rest of the pack.

He's a giant cornball and has been leaning into that since the Hotline Bling video

Dude makes emo songs about strippers and models and isn't afraid to show a level of vulnerability LL and other rappers from time frame would never think of

And I LIKE Drake, but nobody is believing his tough guy talk

09/10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYpnINrZM_M

.

speaking as someone who didn't get into hip hop until the early 90s. "mama said knock you out" was completely lost on me as i didn't have context for the "comeback." i really liked "doin it" and "pink cookies..." but almost entirely because of the instrumentals. i can't even recall any lyrics that i like from him. maybe the goofy sea creature couplet he had on the "flava..." remix and even then all i can muster up is "baracuda"

Where am I?

I don't know this world, lol.

"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

His legacy is sustained not by merit but by being in the right place at the right time.

And baby oil.

when he walked in and said Box..

we all walked out of the movie theatre screaming about that dude named LL Cool J who stole the movie

are two of the best albums ever from an emceeing standpoint.

If some underground dork had spit those rhymes in 96, you all would still be making “LL changed my Life” t-shirts and shit.

that was on Flava in Ya Ear, and it was one line.

My favorite LL emceeing moment is his guest verse on Rampage.

Walking With A Panther had some good songs on it, but it isn’t where I point to make an “LL is a super lyricist” argument.

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

let alone have them strategically placed within a classroom in a fashion that would allow him to facilitate setting 30 emcees free from their doom.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Drake still needs that one defining body of work.

He is pre-blueprint Jay-z w/o "Reasonable Doubt". He has had a TON of Hard Knock Life's, Big Pimpin's, and Where I'm From's

but he really needs a "Blueprint" level work to solidify it.

Even Kanye has one (or more) of those and he isn't the kind of MC Drake is.

Starting with So Far Gone, Certified Lover Boy will be his 11th abum

abd you're still holding onto some kind of hope that isnt coming

I don't think the generation that grew up on Drake the way I grew up on the “Streets Is Watching” VHS would agree with you.

They revere every “time stamp” record he has done the same way.

The bar is low if Aubrey is the Jay Z of this generation

I absolutely revere LL.

I, in general, just don't fuck with today's MC's.

There are exceptions, but these E.T-voiced cats are the worst to me.

Big Sean, Drake, there are a few others I've heard where I'm just waiting for them to say "Ellllioootttt". That's not a voice I want to hear in an MC. Even Common, is his most "I got a a cold" voice doesn't bother me.

But this E.T shit... Can't rock with it. It's just not for me.

And that's an issue, because I don't think I'm alone here. I think there are a lot of late 30's/early 40's cats who don't quite gel with this current generation of artists for similarly aesthetic reasons.

And I hear a lot of heads, where their critique is, essentially, "this ain't real hip hop" or "this ain't REAL music, REAL music is (insert old head name here)".

And the fact is, for a lot of people, the times just past them by. I know I'm largely trapped in the 90's and early 00's. Not entirely, but significantly.

And I think that right there disqualifies many from this discussion, because there's such a huge aesthetic difference at play, and sometimes there's great shit that just isn't for you.

I like Drake here and there. When i like a Drake joint, I really like it. But when I don't? It's a fucking frisbee. So he just ain't for me. But his status, stature, output, influence, impact, longevity at that level is arguably as big as anyone we've ever seen.

So he's in this discussion, whether some of us like him or not. It just means that some of us should probably bounce from the discussion.

What are we comparing them on?

Rapping and lyrical ability or just commercial hits?

It’s like no one is ever having the same conversation.

I will go a bit further than you though.

As far as impact and influence and hits etc...I agree with you 100%. Drake has to be up there. Although, I don’t like giving credit if you influence a bunch of wack shit.

However, MCing is still MCing...period.

And Drake is nowhere near as good as LL in that category. I too am annoyed by the ET voice but I’m equally annoyed by the “spit 2 bars and then let the beat rock for a bar and then spit another 2. I just can’t rock with that lazy ass shit. That Lemon Pepper joint is like 6+ minutes and he starts at like 2 so I’m thinking he’s gonna go in. This dude spent 4 minutes spitting like a total of 12 bars son!

I can’t with that shit.

Another thing is that we only do this type of shit in hip-hop. I don’t recall any conversations around Britney Spears being a better singer than Whitney Houston.

It’s way past the time to split hip-hop up into various genres. Rock did it. Artists like Britney just fall under Pop. Why can’t we just do that shit to avoid the comparison?

Drake would fall into Pop.
Lol

Like He is Jay-Z and has old man emeritus status to lot of much younger people and Today's MC would be folks like Da Baby & Pop Smoke.


I partly ask this question because Drake Hate has long been an OKP thing but at this point dude has been at it so long and has so many hits and big albums it would take a particularly crusty old head to not acknowledge it at this point. You, unlike others here, at least acknowledged that part.

BTW, I just started getting into Big Sean recently because his last album was super dope and dude has gotten into Wellness which I can dig.


Like these joints:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcGfpFHtpNs&list=PLxA687tYuMWj08mrictzMpZo7m8apRabh&index=11

https://music.youtube.com/browse/VLPLVXEAAVgpjHF4JEL1WVSuVWpVXL3u-oBM

That shit is dope....but I guess if you hate his voice it isn't going to work.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

but Drake still songs too much for me to compare him to LL.

I have never listened to a Drake album tho.. besides his first
mix tape.

Could probably make a good point if you wanted to talk about Pop music since there are fewer rules there.

neither i think are mt rushmore level, just below.

i think to be at mt rushmore you have to have the catalog with critical acclaim as well as the impact and influence. LL has more of the critical acclaim than drake but since that is very subjective its not a big enough difference to put them on different levels.

kendrick is probably at their level overall but right on the edge of reaching mt rushmore with one more great project.

for my personal top neither are top 50, but thats my taste and 100% subjective. LL has an argument to be on it but his style isnt really my vibe.

...

on the world stage that is.

I'm certain off name drop alone, that would def. be where notoriety wise they'd fall....
and the broader the circles...the greater the chasm between the 3 would be too...

He's one of the earliest, and biggest crossover superstars in Hip Hop.
He earned stripes in battles on wax.

He, alongside the Beastie Boys, put motherfucking Def Jam on the map, and alongside Run DMC, pushed hip hop into a new stratosphere.

And not with Rappers Delight-levels of novelty (that's a whole other discussion). Radio is a classic.

I Need Love created a new genre, laying a blueprint for countless artists to follow, with varying degrees of success and quality. But the formula was significant, particularly for it's time, and particularly coming from him at the time.

He reinvented himself in the mid-nineties with a string of hits where he perfected that formula.

He popped back up AGAIN in the early 00's on some Neptunes shit. Yeah, the same dude who did Radio and Rock The Bells was killing it on Neptunes tracks nearly two decades later.

His battle with Canibus is legendary, and a notable moment in hip hop.

I got so much more to write here, but it's fucking baffling to say that he's shy of Mt Rushmore. This man has done ALOT.

Each his own, this is largely subjective, and I got serious love for LL, so I'm impassioned here. You're not a moron or someone who doesn't know hip hop or anything like that, so I'm not trying to diss or shit on your opinion here.

I just think LL has gotten a little lost in the collective memory of hip hop. The man was a fucking monster of an artist, spanning two decades. Everything wasn't a homerun, but the things that hit were high level. And there were a lot of them.

Edit: PUT SOME MOTHERFUCKIN RESPECT ON THIS MAN'S NAME!

That is all.

impact and influence is something LL has down. longevity is something he does have as well.

he has good music but i dont think its the best of the best level. i think im too young to fully appreciate how hard LLs music hit people. his early stuff doesnt hit me like run-dmc or whodini does, doesnt compare to rakim, bdk or bdp to me quality wise (at least from the pov of someone discovering it a decade after). mid/late 90s he was more of a movie star, the music he put out then didnt touch me at all. didnt check for any music he released post 2000, cant speak on it. that said, he is worthy to be in the conversation but to me falls short of being in the top 4/5 of all time.

mt rushmore cant have everyone that was great, it should be very limited. LL would be on the list to consider but wouldnt make the cut, i think.

LL also was basically the foundation for Rick and Russell era Def Jam. A reasonable argument could be made that without LL, Def Jam would not have gone on to be the dominant rap label in the 80s. I don’t think T La Rock would have gotten them there. From there, the dominos keep falling. Jay Z remains a gold artist distributed by Priority? Does the Roc ever reach the level where they could put on a guy with a pink Polo who then (with Phonte) went on to inspire a certain guy from Canada?

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

With «Headsprung» lmao ://

hes not for me. the time that hes from feels alien to me.

that said...just because i can't relate, doesnt mean I don't acknowledge his impact.

it would be different if we were talking about someone who came and went

Drake dropped his first mixtape in 2006 and has been a presence since forever.

It's wild to me.

But a lot of cats of a certain age are too stuck in their own boxes to even recognize greatness in things that exist outside of them.

Is being a "presence" really a feat when you're manufactured that way?

He exists in the same realm as Diddy and Jay as bloodsuckers of every new artist/trend, adding nothing new to the conversation. Just bloated stream numbers and alcohol marketing.

...

Cold Truth laid out a strong resume for LL in another post.

Of course Drake has been big for a long while. He's probably moved a ton of units, made millions of dollars and maintained a permanent spot on the charts.

But what is his impact? Did he establish trends? Did he define a sound? Does he have classic albums or just a strong run of singles? How has he influenced the next generation of rappers?

Since I'm a good bit outside of this generation, those are the kinds of things I'm looking for in this post.

>
> Cold Truth laid out a strong resume for LL in another post.
>
> Of course Drake has been big for a long while. He's probably
>moved a ton of units, made millions of dollars and maintained
>a permanent spot on the charts.
>
> But what is his impact? Did he establish trends? Did he
>define a sound? Does he have classic albums or just a strong
>run of singles? How has he influenced the next generation of
>rappers?
>

Things Drake has impacted:

- The entire sound of hip hop - Drake's sonic palette has permeated multiple generations at this point. Drake & 40 even changed the way rap records and pop records are mixed. Forward present vocals with top end rolled off on the instruments + popping drums.

- Voice - Drake's actual tone and voice are a blueprint for an generation of rappers (especially white rappers). Much like the Beastie Boys or Eminem in the past his tone and style have become a gateway for rappers who aren't specifically from the hood.

- Globalism - Drake has aided bringing global hip hop cultures to the US Hip Hop mainstream. From Caribbean influence in his music to Toronto's to the Uk Grime and Afro beat scene etc. On "So Far Gone" Drake was rapping on Lykke Li and santigold records. He took that "blog era" diversification of instrumentals and made them mainstream "Take Care" (Jamie XX, Rihanna, Gil Scot Heron) or One Dance (Wizkid, Kyla).


- Creating Stars - The Weeknd being the most notable but there was a run where (similar to 50cent) Drake was putting everyone on (Migos, Kendrick, Asap Rocky, Majid Jordan, PND, Jhene Aiko)

Did he change it for the better or for the worse?

Look at the 2021 landscape.. we got Little Brother, Freddie Gibbs, Griselda, Drake, Travis Scott, Cole, Lil Nas X, Megan, Cardi, etc...

There are so many options and awesome rap music to listen to...

Not to mention the resurgence of R&B which is a direct result of what Drake polished from Kanye and Cudi’s experiments...

Now we have The Weeknd, Frank, Miguel, The Internet, Thundercat, Jhene, Sza, Solange, Soulection etc...

The 2021 landscape is super rich with ideas.. Drake took more fringe ideas from 808s and Heartbreaks era and the Blog Era and made them mainstream which in turn allows the economy of those ideas to grow.

This new generation of warped tour rap isn’t directly in the post drake continuum but imo starting with NERD/Pharell to Ye to blog era Cudi and Lupe to Drake the explosion of creativity and rap has been an awesome thing to behold. And it has only made the genre and its influence stronger

has been since the early 2010's imo. it is in this position partially due to artists like drake being willing to acknowledge and respect the music and artists of the past without being beholden to their templates or abiding by some arbitrary set of rules about what musicians can and can't do within the genre

Exactly

I will absolutely say I am industry...

I am still an ivy league kid though.. I can still look at the landscape from a historical and/or case study style perspective. I might not be purely a “non-industry” fan but Part of my job the last 15 years has been analyzing industry trends and adapting to it. I see how the younger generation reacts and how the world has evolved around it.

>Look at the 2021 landscape.. we got Little Brother, Freddie
>Gibbs, Griselda, Drake, Travis Scott, Cole, Lil Nas X, Megan,
>Cardi, etc...
>

You surely aren’t giving Drake credit for Griselda and Gibbs. Little Brother came before Drake...not to mention, I wouldn’t even name drop them as an act consistently putting out work. Lil Nas X is absolutely fucking terrible.

This is what I mean, people give credit for bullshit. Just because something is around or different does not mean it’s a positive.

>There are so many options and awesome rap music to listen
>to...
>

I don’t necessarily disagree with this but it has absolutely ZERO to do with Drake and everything to do with the landscape and how music is consumed. I’m actually baffled at some of your response in the context of giving Drake credit.

>Not to mention the resurgence of R&B which is a direct result
>of what Drake polished from Kanye and Cudi’s experiments...
>
>
>Now we have The Weeknd, Frank, Miguel, The Internet,
>Thundercat, Jhene, Sza, Solange, Soulection etc...
>

None of these acts are that good. Sorry, they’re not. I’ll give you The Weeknd I guess. But none of those acts will go down as all-timers by any means. So what is your point?

>The 2021 landscape is super rich with ideas.. Drake took more
>fringe ideas from 808s and Heartbreaks era and the Blog Era
>and made them mainstream which in turn allows the economy of
>those ideas to grow.
>

It’s really not though. Everything sounds exactly the same. Back in the day we had distinct sounds. West Coast, East Coast, Down South...everyone had their own thing. If anything Drake and these new artists pushed an agenda to morph everything into these same lazy atmospheric beats with no grove, no funk, no vibe to them. For you to come on here and try to praise that as a plus says a lot about your knowledge in music man.

>This new generation of warped tour rap isn’t directly in the
>post drake continuum but imo starting with NERD/Pharell to Ye
>to blog era Cudi and Lupe to Drake the explosion of creativity
>and rap has been an awesome thing to behold. And it has only
>made the genre and its influence stronger

Again...the FUCK does this have to do with Drake?

Just to clown. Come on man, you really think that he Weeknd, Frank, Miguel, The Internet,Thundercat, Jhene, Sza, Solange aren't any good?


I mean if that's where you coming from there is nothing really to debate. Your taste are stuck in the 90s.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

I’m not saying they’re bad.

I like many of them.

But they’re not on some legendary status level by any means.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

>I’m not saying they’re bad.
>
>I like many of them.
>
>But they’re not on some legendary status level by any
>means.

Legendary is such a weird bar for a discussion like this. It's an arbitrary goalpost that doesn't contextually address the subject.

It is the same reason they try to make everything an "instant classic"

nothing can just live and become what it is supposed to be because the older generation is too close to the younger generations imo.. these are the growing pains.

It's cuz we are 40+ years into a genre that multiple generations listen to and have an opinion on.

Like Old head music is Biggie and Nas and their kids have K Dot and Cole but it's essentially the same music.

so we argue semantics

he's picking apart the argument and it's not hard to do because as presented, it's a bad argument

We talked about influence and the landscape of 2021 hip hop...

You asked if it was for the better and I simply replied with how dope the landscape is.. Drake is not directly responsible for all of it but since he is a titan in the genre he influences it all.

I am not here to judge the acts I am here to say we have A TON of options.

I think you are very wrong about the R&B space. I believe that from 2010s to now we have seen huge gRowth in the breadth of r&b acts as well as in it’s economy and ecosystem. Prior to Drake (outside of cudi) R&B artists couldn't “blow off a mixtape”. They were major label creatures that needed the big machine to scale. He laid the foundation for the R&B artist to “think more like a rapper” and build out an audience at scale.

There is no way you can say Da Baby sounds like Lil Skies or Sadababy sounds like Anderson Paak or Westside Gunn sounds like Blxst or Duke Deuce sounds like Fivio Foreign... the region sounds are looser but shit sounds very different.

Earth Gang sounds very much like Earth Gang even though it may not be specifically atlanta.

As it connects directly to Drake. There are a list of sounds, artists and ideas Drake helped usher in. Much like Kanye before him younger artists took the ball and ran with those sounds evolving them into something new.

You said “Drake changed the landscape” of basically everything.

I asked if it was for the better or worse.

Why would respond to that with things not directly related to Drake?

That’s just simply not following the conversation bro.

I’m not even really mad at the landscape.

I think it’s dope that there are outlets for artists to put out music and there’s a ton of “underground” shit that I rock with.

But as far as the mainstream landscape...nah that shit ALL sounds the same.

So to be direct..

Yes Drake has had a positive effect on hip hop at large.. as can be seen in the varied sub genres of current rap and it’s inclusion of global sounds.

>So to be direct..
>
>Yes Drake has had a positive effect on hip hop at large.. as
>can be seen in the varied sub genres of current rap and it’s
>inclusion of global sounds.

So there weren’t varied sub genres before or inclusion of global sounds before?

We literally just discussed this. G-Funk. Boom Bap. Down South. Hardcore. Horrorcore. Funk-inspired. Reggae-inspired. Jazz Rap. Rock-Rap. All this shit has been around since day 1 bro.

Honestly, the fuck are you talking about?

So because Drake is popular and brings the most basic dumbed down accessible version of what you’re calling “varied genres” and “global sounds” that means he’s the first to do it?

Reggae and Dancehall influence wasn’t in hip-hop until Drake huh?

This is what I mean when y’all give misguided praise in relation to “influence”.

You know you sound dumb as fuck right now right?

Believe what you want to fam.

Drake has run mainstream hip hop for a decade and his influence is substantial.

period.

end of story.

>mainstream hip hop

Exactly.

We aren’t on the same page.

Mainstream hip-hop is as wack as ever.

And you’re over here praising Drake for being the forefront of *that*

At the same time trying to slip in credit of the rest of the landscape.

I coach high school basketball and still go out to bars.

Last song I remember hearing heavy on the warmup mixes was “What a Time To Be Alive” or whatever the name is, and out at the bars maybe “Passionfruit”? Maybe “God’s Plan”? I know that one got a lot of play and a lot of hashtags from
corny people on Twitter.

I know he’s had a lot of “hits” since then, but who the hell are these people that are really listening? The charts are just bizarre now. The audience can’t be what it used to be. I’m out there and never hear these songs. Most of these hits aren’t universal like “Doin It” or “Mama Said...” or “I’m Bad”.

Wait...

You have this answer though. What are you hearing on the warmup mixes?

I know it ain’t “Doing It” or “I’m bad”.

I am definitely hearing “Laugh Now Cry Later” in turn up gym mixes. As well as “Life Is Good”

I hear “doing it” as well.... as dinner music at Italian restaurants in LA. Nice lil bit of red wine and big pun.

with that yo...

I don’t want no trouble.

Thundercat is dope!

But we are talking about artists that Drake is getting credit for influencing.

Thundercat doesn’t fall in that category at all.

I’m confused with this whole conversation.

I’m claiming that we can’t give credit solely for influence if who you influence is wack.

Rakim and G Rap and Slick Rick influenced Nas, Snoop, Raekwon etc

Nas and Rae influenced Jay-Z, Big Pun etc.

Drake influence this dude with the diamond in his forehead.

Like what are we really talking about here?

Hip-Hop has gotten progressively worse on the mainstream level.

I’m convinced some of these cats can’t do simple math yo.

That’s why people aren’t trying to hear Drake being on LL’s level.

And I’m one of the people giving him credit for his run and popularity.

I just don’t think that equates into quality.

"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

>
>"Get ready....for your blessing....."
>"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

on something like 30+ artists highest charting songs of their career.

That's a wild stat.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Since the “So Far Gone” days Drake’s team has been excellent at finding records under the radar with the potential to blow and getting him on them.

Example - https://youtu.be/aW-v5tvgXsI

Yeah LL is more of a pioneer than Drake, mainly because he put out his first album a year before Drake was even born.

Drake's long term impact in rap/music isn't going to be felt/recognized for years to come, but he's been highly influential to younger rappers already.

LL invented the "Rap songs for Girls" shit but Drake took it to a whole nother level and KEPT producing hits in that lane. Which is even more of a feat since the Ladies seemed to love Cool James WAY more than they do Drake. Maybe I'm just too old to be around the women who are attracted to Drake

Drake started off as an actor but has pretty much focused on Music
LL started off rapping but now mainly is an Actor who raps as a hobby

Drake's period of being viewed as one of the TOP rap artists in the game has been longer than LL's Prime and doesn't show any signs of slowing down anytime soon

.

It’s not even debatable at this point.


----------

IG @erichrigonan

LL created the platform that Drake is using.

LL was the first great solo hip hop artist. He took the baton
from Kurtis Blow who set it off.

LL with Run DMC and Beastie Boys is what led to hip hop
expanding from New York to the White Suburbs.


LL musically was relevant from 1984 to 2008...We are talking
25 years of greatness.


Drake has never existed in the underground. LL ripped the underground
and the radio.

Drake? Fock this place. Hip hop rushmore?

with this misdemeanor thought process

...shit ..show me What drake track thats fucking with "Ill Bomb" which is LL's last great song.

If folks want to argue that LL is more important MC because of his pioneering status or because he has harder rhymes, I can see that argument. But you really can't argue track for track between the artists unless your audience is strictly 50+.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

These new “hits” aren’t even really hits. The audience is so fragmented. Everybody’s just listening to their own playlists and shit.

Sure audiences are segmented.. his segment happens to be the size of a stadium in every major city around the world though.

It’s just an entirely different playing field.

Like comparing LeBron to Kareem Abdul Jabbar. Different positions and it’s barely even the same sport.

I can agree on that...

Drake’s stardom and place in Hip Hop could not happen without standing on the shoulders of those before him. And there are a lot..

LL didn’t have as many... which is why he is so revered and should be...

i have to stop reading and replying to these threads 😄

https://chartmasters.org/most-streamed-artists-ever-on-spotify/

Audiences may be segmented, but he is one of the few audience unifying artist still working.

He is getting played at more weddings or BBQs than LL.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Drake ain’t popping worldwide. Do you understand that countries outside are diehard
hip hop fans?

Rock the bells
I’m bad
Going back to cali
Big ole butt
On a rampage
My radio
I need love
Mama said knock you out
Car driving by with the booming system
Around the way girl
I shot ya
4.3 2 1
Jack the Ripper
Hey Lover

Drake has zero breakdance songs, zero hype songs...nothing but slow trap shit.

Please STOP!!

....i mean, listen to Drake music if you can stomach it ..it does not sound anything like hip hop from the multiple eras of LL ..not sure what you call it, but Drake may be the "king" of that thing he does.

"Drake has zero breakdance songs"

BWAHAHHHHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA


>zero hype songs

Have you been to a wedding or BBQ in the last 10 years?

Even if you did a 40+ crowd (maybe even a 50ish) you would still get more people hype and on the dance floor with the Drake set over the LL set.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

You sound like a radio/tv person.

Outside of North America, Drake is not popping.

Please go research. Just like how the English know more about soul and
r/b history than commercial Americans. They cherish the soul and history
of it.

Germany, Japan, Holland, England,etc

True Hip Hop would really represent.


You’re so American ...lol

The fact that you like Drake is bad enough. I can’t take you seriously.

Drake has the same problem as HOV. he has always been commercial. No
underground following whatsoever.

Sorry, you’re not a real hip hop head ..go listen to some Griselda and
get back to us.

selling out all over the world. filling out the O2 in a residency. got hits in other languages. but he aint poppin worldwide lol

He is commercial only...that’s the difference you fail to understand.


LL rocked both platforms.

Drake has never been underground or would get acknowledged there


People who listen to Griselda, Roc, alchemist , etc don’t listen to drake
But they still bumping LL and paying homage.

When it’s time to battle or bring the B-Boys out, and they still break and
battle Worldwide, drake is not in the conversation.

Lyrically he is not in anyone’s top ten or top 20......

...that's why we can all can agree MC Hammer is the best from the "golden era"

If he wants to argue who is the biggest artist, yeah sales are a part of that conversation.

BTW, yeah Hammer was the biggest rapper of his time without being anywhere near the best.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

>If he wants to argue who is the biggest artist, yeah sales
>are a part of that conversation.
>
>BTW, yeah Hammer was the biggest rapper of his time without
>being anywhere near the best.


He wasn't though.. he was mocked and ridiculed by some of the best.. this is facts. If you think because he sold millions to white america and had a saturday morning cartoon makes him "the biggest", then i don't know what to tell you.

rap is not pop ,if you call that then stop”

They just don’t know, bro.

argue that LL is a much bigger international artist and when people present you with the data point that Drake is literally the 3rd most streamed artist in the world, then counter with well Drake is a pop star ain't real underground hip-hop.

The concept of the "Biggest Global Underground Artist" doesn't even make sense!






>He is commercial only...that’s the difference you fail to
>understand.
>
>
>LL rocked both platforms.
>
>Drake has never been underground or would get acknowledged
>there
>
>
>People who listen to Griselda, Roc, alchemist , etc don’t
>listen to drake
>But they still bumping LL and paying homage.
>
>When it’s time to battle or bring the B-Boys out, and they
>still break and
>battle Worldwide, drake is not in the conversation.
>
>Lyrically he is not in anyone’s top ten or top 20......


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

its all he knows

You don’t understand and didn’t read shit I wrote.

I will repeat, when it comes time to bring the real hip hop
out for the Bboys ( you do know what that is?)world wide,
Drake is not relevant and never will be.

You talking streams.....

I’m talking DOPE HIP HOP

DRAKE HAS NO UNDERGROUND BBOY HIP HOP RECORDS.

ZERO.

There would be zero competition.

and streams are lazy as fuck.

I like having the ability to stream but I can simply pull up my phone and instantly stream music.

so different from the days of having to make a 20 minute bus ride to the record store hoping they had a CD a day early for the release.

ride for 2 hours to a record store just to buy and album" argument.


Legs want to make a late entry bid for most ridiculous Old Man argument.

SMH then LOL.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

damn u old

obviously I’m an old head and being able to talk about hip hop and actually being there is something I’m proud of as a hip hop head and old nigga.

I mean... Drake got some dope songs but a lot of them are mid tempo emo shit

his "bangers" don't really bang like that.. lol.

One thing I love about Drake is his sampling of music. He's used some artist I listen to who are more on the electronic side of things.

but the beats he raps/sings over sometimes are those backward muffled joints that are sleepy time.

He ain’t nobody.

The mid 2000s to the 2010s.

What year did y'all stop listening to new hip-hop if Drake and Ye aren't important hip-hop figures to you?


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

from their actual resumes.

LL fell off hard too, but he had a lot longer run than Kanye.

it just took people longer to realize it with Kanye because they were too busy pretending his planned brooding rants at his concerts were so important.

and 6 mega albums overall counting Watch the Throne as well as being the most influential rapper and creative this side of the 2000s

LL aint in this air.

I had a similar conversation recently and I came to the conclusion that Kanye is the most important rapper since 2000. And I don't know who might be 2nd but whoever it may be is a distant 2nd.

I loathe who Kanye has become. An I don't think every single project he dropped was dope. But there's no denying his importance & influence.

Drake's spot is weird. I absolutely think Drake is one of the most important artists of his generation. But his influence is strange, IMO.

imo...

Pharell is the Granddaddy... Skateboard P's side projects and presence in the Genre showed that the boundaries could be bent broken and restructured. But he didn't hit the MAINSTREAM with his own musical output until well after his most influential phase... he left his DNA with the artists who paid attention though.

Kanye took the best of Diddy, P, and Jay and made a new monster. He transformed the mainstream and helped open the floodgates in the underground as well. IMO his influence directly bleeds into the "blog era" rappers (including us) that followed.

Direct evidence of this IRL is the best Tour of the last 15 years "Glow In The Dark" (NERD, Ye, Rihanna, Lupe). The mix of artists on there is what the music industry looks like now.

No separation between the Lyricist, The Pop Star, the Rap Star, and the indie darlings.

What Ye scratched the surface with on 808s was the "code" Drake broke. Drake is the biggest artist of the Blog Era. He took what was happening on 2dopeboyz (rapping over lykke li and grizzly bear instrumentals) mixed with Ye, Jay, and Wayne and made them mainstream products.

He also ushered in a new sonic palette with the way his songs sounded

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/noah-40-shebib-profile-1011388/


Where Drake and Ye differ is Drizzy spent ALL his earl career JUST making records. The Drake Jordan, OVO Clothes, etc don't come until well after the first few albums. His creative output was solely directed at music. It is why he is the most streamed artist imo.

I listed everything Drake has influenced above but it is deep. I do think that Drake's experimentation in sub-genres along with streaming has made the global hip hop world much closer.

Just from a basic DJ perspective. Drake drops "In My Feelings", it is a hit. I want to play it in a DJ set and because it is Bounce music influenced it means I can incorporate a number of Bounce songs that weren't normally mainstream hits into that mix. That exposes the genre to folks who might not normally listen to it and some will dig deeper. Maybe some other artists also look at "In my Feelsings" success and then dable in the genre. They collab with artists in the space and now the world has a better understanding of bounce music. Now labels look to sign artists from that genre. The genre has a moment and the whole ecosystem is now upleveled.

Especially about other genres that I know nothing about.

This thread has me listening to Drake today while I'm working. For me his highs are really high but his lows are very low. I'm trying to put together a mental list of my 10 favorite songs.

I think part of the disconnect between LL's generation & Drake's generation is the way music is consumed and shared. LL came up during the MTV Generation...FM radio, videos, cassettes, CDs, Right On, Word Up, The Source, XXL. Drake is firmly in the digital, streaming, blog era.

I will also agree that the Glow in the Dark tour was unreal. I have 5 favorite shows of all time and that's one of them (Kanye specifically).

we dont get a Pop Smoke or any of this current stuff w/o those bridges being built

Exactly...

I was on tour with EL-P and Dizzee Rascal in eerr 2008. He was a KING in the UK but I watched him struggle to win over the US crowd.

even Tiny Tempah's crossover in the US in 2010/11 it was a typical US Style hip hop pop song.

but when Drake started messing with them... the shift in the US pubic consciousness happens.

look at this shit

https://youtu.be/sO6DxYzB5ZE?t=250
https://youtu.be/f6bCXQno72g

ya'll can play this Drake ain't underground card but he shows up in places a "pop" star shouldn't and connects directly with those in the culture.

I remember him talking about pink polos and backpacks and just loving Kanye

He is a pop star. The most streamed artist by definition is a pop star.


But the fact that a rapper has become one of the biggest pop stars ever is a feat in itself.

I mean shoot that is one of the pioneering things that LL did and we going to applaud LL for doing it and blast Drake for doing it to the next level?


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Please research. You’re way off.

LL started in the underground FIRST. Battled MCs first. Earned his stripes
as a MC and true hip hop artist first, then moved on to commercial success.

however, LL was never a pop star or made pop music. His commercial
hits were more like hip hop soul, or RnB/Hip Hop fusion.....

But never pop or a pop star..

When LL had his 90s run of hits

There was literally only ONE way for rappers to have pop hits

HIT = 80s sample + Singing Hook + Rap verses.

It was the POP FORMULA for every rapper and LL had a few of those joints.

They were basically RnB songs with rap lyrics.

“ Around the way girl” was RnB with lyrics
“Hey Lover” was RnB hip hop love song
“I need love” was RnB hip hop love song

Those songs crossed over to the pop charts...just like
many other RnB songs have crossed over

But LL was never ever a pop star or made pop music.

The formula was RnB mixed with Hip Hop. Known as hip hop
soul.

First.. there is no actual genre of pop especially now.

Back in the late 80s and 90s if you were a rapper who wanted to get on the POP charts (Top 40) you needed to make a hybrid song... rnb + hip hop.

LL did it.. as did everyone else. "Around the Way Girl" was LL's first top 10 single.. following the formula.

Pop really is the most popular music at any given time. Hip-Hop has become as Pop as anything.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Down to "you ain't a true hip-hop fan" talk. I miss it.


But just to level set for this I am a 43 year old hip-hop fan who remembers vividly getting in trouble when my dad heard us listening to "Kanday" in 87.

So how old are you before we get too deep into it?



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

When he first dropped he was untouchable, a brash young kid that was a force of nature.

But he was very quickly lapped by better lyricists and fell victim somewhat to being ahead of his time with Walking With a Panther.

Then the big comeback album with Mama Said...and then coasted for a few years with a few hit singles here and there.

But overall he's had a pretty middle of the road career. He's not a supreme lyricist, not a monster hit maker, no interesting back story and hardly ever set any trends in hiphop other than making cats step their pen game up way back in the 80's.

The Drake comparison isn't fair because LL has never had a run anywhere near as long as Drake for one thing, and love him or hate him, Drake left a ton of clones in his wake (I know he himself bit the style he ran with but it's effectively his shit now, sorry)

Like I can't think of any other major rapper who isn't always shouting out his crew. Even Nas had the bravehearts.

I say that to sat LL has always been a stand alone, singular unique figure in Hip-hop. Very interesting career that hasn't been duplicated.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Rakim didn’t have a crew. Just him and Eric B.

LL was the same way. It was just LL and Cut Creator.
, and a lot of MCs were that way. And he always shouted
out to Farmers Boulevard, where his people and crew were.

You guys really need to research because you guys talk out
of your asses

You’re very uninformed.

to the point where he just puts out music as a hobby

That probably was the right move since not many artists from that era are still around in the public eye

I knew him peak Degrassi.


----------

IG @erichrigonan

Go read Wikipedia. Hell go watch Crush Groove.

Didn’t set trends?

Wrong

No backstory?

Wrong. Were you born yesterday?

You just typed a whole lot of wrong shit ...good lord .

I’ll give you a little bit of history since you’re uninformed.

LL and Mc Shan set trend of wearing Kangols out of Queens

And LL is the one who made Troop jackets and troop gymshoes popular.
Similar to Kanye bringing BAPE to the mainstream. No one else was wearing
troop or knew what it was

LL was the one who brought Dookie rope chains and made it popular.
When he sported a thick dookie rope with no shirt on...everyone followed
that trend of wearing truck jewelry.

Please go research because you sound foolish.

If he wasn't first market with that, he was the certainly the dude who became the poster boy for it.

Others built on that with the singing and whatnot, but James Todd Smith built that foundation- and then popped up years later with a string of smashes that perfected it.

He's an icon, a pioneer who's immediate, discernible relevance lasted through multiple decades. There's nothing middle of the road about that.

This is insane to me.


You straight up said he didn't have a run near as long as Drake.

RADIO DROPPED IN 1985. It went platinum.
Bigger & Deffer, 1987: 2X Plat
Walking With A Panther, 1989: Plat
Mama Said Knock You Out, 1990: 2X Plat

He came out the gate with four platinum albums in 6 years, selling 5 mil total. Those were still huge numbers for hip hop at that time.

14 Shots To The Dome, 93: Gold. Slippin, but gold.

Mr Smith, 1996, 2X Plat
Phenomenon, 1997: Plat
GOAT, 2000: Plat
10, 2002: Gold, and still had a single that charted in the Billboard top 5 and hit #1 in rap.

The Definition, 2004: Gold
Todd Smith, 2006: Gold

Exit 13, 2008: Doesn't reach gold.

Over the course of 21 years, LL dropped 12 albums. 4 went gold, 4 went plat, 4 went double plat.

He finally ran out of gas on album 13, from a sales standpoint.

And keep in mind... he fucking dropped in 1985.

To stay that relevant for that long, for an artist of his generation, is mind boggling. Yes, there are a few others, but let's not pretend that this is the norm.

Meanwhile, Drake's first album dropped in 2010. 2021 just started. If you're talking longevity, Drakes got another decade to go.

No, LL, even at his peak was never the all-encompassing entity Drake has become. Yes, Drake's sales dwarf LL's.

There are definite, credible arguments Drake's favor on certain fronts. But you're grossly underselling LL's career here.

But that was done by 96 (97 tops).

Let's be real.





>If he wasn't first market with that, he was the certainly the
>dude who became the poster boy for it.
>
>Others built on that with the singing and whatnot, but James
>Todd Smith built that foundation- and then popped up years
>later with a string of smashes that perfected it.
>
>He's an icon, a pioneer who's immediate, discernible relevance
>lasted through multiple decades. There's nothing middle of the
>road about that.
>
>This is insane to me.
>
>
>You straight up said he didn't have a run near as long as
>Drake.
>
>RADIO DROPPED IN 1985. It went platinum.
>Bigger & Deffer, 1987: 2X Plat
>Walking With A Panther, 1989: Plat
>Mama Said Knock You Out, 1990: 2X Plat
>
>He came out the gate with four platinum albums in 6 years,
>selling 5 mil total. Those were still huge numbers for hip hop
>at that time.
>
>14 Shots To The Dome, 93: Gold. Slippin, but gold.
>
>Mr Smith, 1996, 2X Plat
>Phenomenon, 1997: Plat
>GOAT, 2000: Plat
>10, 2002: Gold, and still had a single that charted in the
>Billboard top 5 and hit #1 in rap.
>
>The Definition, 2004: Gold
>Todd Smith, 2006: Gold
>
>Exit 13, 2008: Doesn't reach gold.
>
>Over the course of 21 years, LL dropped 12 albums. 4 went
>gold, 4 went plat, 4 went double plat.
>
>He finally ran out of gas on album 13, from a sales
>standpoint.
>
>And keep in mind... he fucking dropped in 1985.
>
>To stay that relevant for that long, for an artist of his
>generation, is mind boggling. Yes, there are a few others, but
>let's not pretend that this is the norm.
>
>Meanwhile, Drake's first album dropped in 2010. 2021 just
>started. If you're talking longevity, Drakes got another
>decade to go.
>
>No, LL, even at his peak was never the all-encompassing entity
>Drake has become. Yes, Drake's sales dwarf LL's.
>
>There are definite, credible arguments Drake's favor on
>certain fronts. But you're grossly underselling LL's career
>here.
>


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

The author of this poll is not informed enough( or at all) to ask
such a question, or compare two entities that should not be compared.

One has no father to his style, and the other is a son of a style fathered by
many.

No matter how much you like Almond milk...the shit ain’t milk.

>The author of this poll is not informed enough( or at all) to
>ask
>such a question, or compare two entities that should not be
>compared.
>
>One has no father to his style, and the other is a son of a
>style fathered by
>many.
>
>No matter how much you like Almond milk...the shit ain’t
>milk.
>


bruh...lmao

Buddy trolling but yeah.. a lot of these arguments are built on a house of cards.

Drake popular tho so you know... that's all that matters.

I will say, back with Cannibus I was always mad at the love LL got for being the bigger star. I thought LL lost that battle

The 4th spot has to be Run DMC but I'm not sure how that would fit.

This made me ask the question why were the Presidents who were on Mt Rushmore chosen. I found this in Wikipedia.

Having decided on the location of the sculpture, Borglum decided to make the monument of four presidents of the United States. He chose the two most famous presidents in American history, George Washington and Abraham Lincoln. He chose Thomas Jefferson because Jefferson nearly doubled the size of the United States in the 1803 Louisiana Purchase (which included the land that became South Dakota). The last president Borglum chose was Theodore Roosevelt, suggested by President Calvin Coolidge (who insisted that at least there be two Republicans and at least one Democrat represented) because of Theodore Roosevelt's introduction of the National Park Service.

That makes me think mount rushmore doesn't have to be the founders necessarily.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

honorable mention Chuck D

I think every rap act I ever loved is a descendent from of these three.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

but all I care about is niggas who can rap, not girly shit like radio hits

on sabbatical.

does it really matter?

wonder what bin's doing?
http://i.imgur.com/phECCMp.jpg

.

LL is a better "mc/rapper"
Drake is a much, much better artist

.

anything about R&B and Soul music as compared to British folk and that

Germany, Japan, Holland, England are the homes of True Hip Hop.


OK. SMH.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

is Drake a bigger global star? of course.


is he on LL's level in any other way? fuck no.

better rapper? no
more lyrical? no
better songs geared towards women? no
better flow? no
better career? no
better sex symbol? hell no

Lol

of black people playing music in more than a decade?


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

He's in extremely ratified air for artists of any genre, hip hop be damned.

Certain cats are unable to separate their own personal tastes from the collective whole of the world around them. And I think that gatekeeping mentality is a a very toxic perspective to have when it comes to art.

I.e, good music that exists consists of the things I like, but anything I don't like, and/or doesn't fit into my neat little boxes is shit.

And in your teens or early 20's, incsn understand that. But to stay stuck in that mentality to the point where you vieanything that isn't for you is trash, well... that's a person that's just not even worth a discussion imo

This post is full of un-ironed Steve Harvey suits...

Okayplayer BYKE!!!

though for doing the deep dive. Clearly one of the most knowledgable people in here about music and impact but they ain't trying to listen though.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

like whatever you like

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

LOL @ listening to soulless emo ass 1/3 rap, 1/3 r&b and 1/3 wack as fuck shit at a BBQ.

Sounds like your BBQ has mad mayonnaise being passed around

what BBQ mix have I made that people hate

and I wasnt trying to clown. you made a post justifying your opinions

most of these drake-detracting posters sound like the rock critics in the 90s shitting on nirvana because they didn't sound like led zep or the stones, completely missing the point of what nirvana was doing — for themselves, the genre, and music at large. usually this happens because folks think that older music is objectively "good" because it reminds them of being young and carefree and new music made by younger artists reminds them that they are no longer young, have major stress due to mid-life stuff, and their SOs regret committing to them and/or vice versa. i get wanting to hold on the past. as you age the past (falsely) appears more idyllic and present and future get more bleak. but goddamn, y'all! remember but don't look back!

You should be taking issue with those who came in here to shit on LL, IMO.

>most of these drake-detracting posters sound like the rock
>critics in the 90s shitting on nirvana because they didn't
>sound like led zep or the stones, completely missing the point
>of what nirvana was doing — for themselves, the genre, and
>music at large. usually this happens because folks think that
>older music is objectively "good" because it reminds them of
>being young and carefree and new music made by younger artists
>reminds them that they are no longer young, have major stress
>due to mid-life stuff, and their SOs regret committing to them
>and/or vice versa. i get wanting to hold on the past. as you
>age the past (falsely) appears more idyllic and present and
>future get more bleak. but goddamn, y'all! remember but
>don't look back!

trying to guilt people into liking an artist is hilarious.

I can see clowning those who deny his impact and star power but damn...you sound ridiculous with this post.

https://media3.s-nbcnews.com/i/newscms/2019_41/3044736/191009-drake-dennis-graham-al-1125_7fd2503292dbd5457447918ebb07e12a.jpg

Just me though

Benny, Gibbs, Boldy, Conway, Stove God, etc. there’s so much new heat. I don’t got time for no basic ass Drake in 2021 when he’s been doing the same shit for a decade. Boring as hell.

https://youtu.be/ZsYL6MGqDss

, at least not as well as you do, but yeah that song is trash.

But if doing this by judging bad songs then this one wins hands down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgYfRGDiPDs

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Lord, never let me be this bored

This post was made simply to hate on LL.

Long overdue for LL!

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/drake-billboard-artist-of-the-decade-2021-music-awards_n_609bd3b3e4b0909247fdc1ad

lol keep crying.


----------

IG @erichrigonan

...Cry about it

never fails.


----------

IG @erichrigonan

it just means most streamed

Fast & Furious is on its 9th movie. does that means it's good cinema or that it's popular

just wanna go on record 🤷🏽‍♀️

I'm responding to the notion that he's only about rap-singing over slow trap beats. I'm not a huge fan of him as an artist or his persona, but I am a fan of some of his moments.

Like, hearing '0 to 100' all throughout Brooklyn in the summer of 2015 before I moved to NYC. The beat was hard, and I had no idea who it was for a second.

0 to 100
https://youtu.be/I2bBZvSPpOo

2 Chainz, featuring Drake - 'No Lie'
https://youtu.be/uQZMaG1eO74

'Wu Tang Forever'
https://youtu.be/gJ6yX-CWncw


He has moments for a lot of people I think. I've never heard a whole album start to finish, for the most part I've written him off, but I always hear or find something I end up feeling. This is not the entire list of great moments, just moments I THINK are worth looking into, I've definitely left a lot off that should be included.

https://twitter.com/ovosound/status/1396655999453261826?s=21



----------

IG @erichrigonan

----------

IG @erichrigonan

Avengers: Endgame (I havent seen it) and Avatar (I've seen it) are the number 1 and 2 highest grossing films of all time, are they great films?

all Billboard Awards mean is most played on wherever streams count

he has 29 Billboard Awards and 4 Grammys for a reason, because Billboard Awards are meaningless

maybe you would see it clearly if you werent from his home

Blockbuster doesn't equate to greatness.

But it can.

Further, greatness is largely contextual.

Gret at what?
And to whom?

Funny you mention Endgame, which was the culmination of an interconnected 23 film saga that not only stuck the landing, but contained one of them absolute greatnesmoments in the history of film.

"On your left" is on par with any crucial moment of any film ever made.

Sure, critics can get all smug because SUPERHEROES AND CGI AND SPECIAL EFFECTS OH MY!

It was a monumental achievement that connected with people in real ways.

It wasn't perfect, and there's valid criticism to be had.

But it very much meets the definition of "greatness" within the context of these types of films.

Nobody had to try and convince us...LL just was.

Drake stans are weird IMO

Just let LL have his HOF moment without making it about you.

>Nobody had to try and convince us...LL just was.

Drake "just is" too. The only Drake line I know off top is "last name ever, first name greatest, like a sprained ankle, boy, I ain't nothin to play with".

That's it. That's the only one. There are three Drake songs I like that I can think of.

Forver
She Will (on Lil Wayne's album)
Duppy

That's it. There may be another 1-2, but I can't come up with one.

His dominance exists whether I fuck with him or not.
And LL had his critics back in the day. Thing is, there weren't multiple networks connecting people from all walks of life so that they can publically talk about it, much less carry on the same conversation within a single thread for months on end the way we do now.

Saying "LL just was" ignores a long ass list of contextual differences that... make a difference.

Because people tend to romanticize shit. I went back through his catalog and realized there was a good amount of LL that just isn't for me. I still rock with him for sure, because he was a heavy influence on me as a young hip hop head. He's a GOAT and a pioneer.

But Drake is a literal industry game changer, and he hit at a time that coincides with a boom in social media. So it stands to reason that the biggest artist of a generation where damn near everyone is not only able to access his music, but is also able to easily talk about him with complete strangers, would be discussed quite a bit.

And since nobody is universally loved, it makes sense that we have various camps, for and against. Because that's how social media works.

Big vs Pac, Jay vs Nas, and on, those conversations would have been elevated exponentially had we had social media of our current day, back when those feuds were at the forefront.

>Drake stans are weird IMO
>
>Just let LL have his HOF moment without making it about you.

people discuss shit. There's nothing "stan" about this.

Stan is usually some generic, meaningless fuck shit someone pulls out whenever someone else is praising someone people don't like. It's effectively the same as "player hater", in that it's essentially a way to shut down a conversation by deflection or dismissal, rather than have the actual discussion.

Drake's style is such that, if you're the type that still loves LL to this day, he may not appeal to you. I know that's the case for me. Hip Hop has plenty of subgenres now, and it's easy to dismiss or overlook the shit that doesn't fit a particular box.

And Drake's at a level where he's irrevocably altered the sounds and trends of the music, and his name warrants such discussions against other legends, because he occupies a similar place in hip hop history.

I/you/we don't need to be among his fans to acknowledge his significance in that light.

LOL@your dissertation...not trying to convince me...

Whole lotta wrong in your post

On the subject. Nothing extreme or controversial, or even disrespectful.

Your reaction says so much about you as a person.

Ther'es a long ass discussion on the subject in here, and so you taking this corny, dated, cliche internet message board snarking for lulz approach in response says a lot about who you are as a person.

There's "So much wrong" with my post... Yet you have nothing to say about it.

Please. I addressed your take with specificity and respect.

Which was far more than it deserved, since you presented a basic bob assed, overly simplistic, contextually ignorant-yet-laughably arrogant old head take on the subject. It's exceptionally stupid and didn't deserve a fraction of the respect I gave it.

And you got the audacity to try to grandstand with this fuck shit?

FOH

I think him and VEX are the same dude. It kills me how people try to
degrade one entity to upgrade the other.

Drake has never, ever rocked underground hip hop. We are talking
hip hop here, and all of its elements. That’s an element that Drake doesn’t
have. Hip Hop’s birth was an underground birth, and it was through artist
like Kool Mo Dee, LL, Beastie Boys, Run DMC, and Kurtis Blow who took
hip hop mainstream and to the charts.


All those artist rocked the underground, FIRST, before they acquired global
radio success.

Drake isn’t really a hip hop artist. more like a pop artist to be honest.
He has never had the lyricism, only the music. And that makes him a great
music artist.

He is an entertainer similar to what Hammer was.....not on the level of LL Cool.

You didn't say a single thing that addressed anything I said.

Further, you open with two very ridiculous statements:

"I think him and VEX are the same dude."

-I'm not Vex, and he's not me, and this is a weird ass assessment because we have very little in common. On what, exactly, do you base this farcical theory?

"It kills me how people try to degrade one entity to upgrade the other."

Who did I degrade to upgrade Drake, exactly?

It's pretty clear that you didn't actually read anything I said, which is fine, but everything you've said about it reads like you have no clue what I said or why.

If you're going to call what I said bullshit, you should get your own talking points in line.

you and Vex are about the last two posters on here I'd think are the same people

when posting.

With such a deep and meticulously curated pool evidence like that, how could you be wrong?

Drake, my ninja?

You got bigger fish to fry anyway.

The Lakers are getting hoe’d and they need your help!
Lebum could use your cheerleading right about now.

on LL Cool J, he'd probably tell you LL aint shit compared to the Isley brothers

>on LL Cool J, he'd probably tell you LL aint shit compared to
>the Isley brothers
>
>

And there’s folks who considered the isleys to be shapeshifting biters who never totally had their own thing. So hey.

But tha innanet is a place where you can find all sorts of complaints about anything or anybody. And the focus generally lasers in on negatives more than positives. At this point in my life, I view it all as poisonous to the enjoyment of just about anything. And showing up and saying ‘hey, it’s not perfect but I fuggin like it because of these good things I got from it’ is a rebel yell. It shouldn’t be but it is.

can't fully put this stuff into context because all the variables are different. time, media, styles will play into how this is viewed. and old heads just don't tend to ride for drake. not saying we should. it aint our time.

with that said, he's like surpassed LL from a status standpoint. As much as Cool J is revered, he doesn't even make the top 10 of some heads. with that said, his career is/was a monster. he was a superstar from hip-hop.

drake is also a superstar, but on a much larger scale. doesn't matter if you think he's better musically.

When LL missed.. the streets let him know. He had a cooling off period when Walk Like A Panther Came Out.

But asking us to look back and lie about the star power LL had back then when he knocked off Kurtis Blow and stole the show in Krush Groove

It was just different back then.

just like

>When LL missed.. the streets let him know. He had a cooling
>off period when Walk Like A Panther Came Out.
>
>But asking us to look back and lie about the star power LL had
>back then when he knocked off Kurtis Blow and stole the show
>in Krush Groove
>
>It was just different back then.
>

but his overall career is still pretty stellar. that can't be denied.

I aint a drake fan at all, but he's a bigger overall star ll was.

And never will be. You can’t breakdance to his music. He never rocked
the underground. He wasn’t a battle rapper.

So it’s a bad comparison.

MC Hammer would be a better comparison, because MC Hammer’s rise
and success was similar...he didn’t come from the underground, sold millions
of records and entertained people.

Drake isn’t in anyone’s top 5 or top 10 ...or top 20 for that matter.

He is this era’s MC Hammer....”rap is not pop, if you call it that then stop.”

breaking and battle rapping aren't the only criteria. both are huge stars, but drake has grown bigger.

you're talking about how things were vs how they are now. stars aren't made the same way. things are faster and less grimy. the path for 80-90s legends was of that time. today, it's different.

hip hop legend vs pop star is semantics at this point. both are pop stars. LL can be seen a pioneer because of when he became popular. not sure if Drake has that under his belt.

That gatekeepers like you still exist in 2021 is astounding.

Your backpack weighs 100 tons, and gaining.

Your particular view of what constitutes hip hop is narrow and toxic.

As I said earlier in the post, a lot of heads can't see past their own aesthetic bubble to recognize greatness.

People like you think you're keeping hip hop alive with such rigid definitions, but you're not. You're trying to guard a gate that everyone went over, around, and under years ago- even as many still go through it.

Cats like you are a detriment, not an asset, no matter how well you think you're holding it down.

saying Drake isnt a legend because you dont like him is like saying Tyler Perry isnt a legend in entertainment because Madea movies arent your thing

terms like legend arent subject to opinion, it is what it is. all legends arent equal, Michael Jordan and Steve Francis are both NBA legends

also Drake is a lot of people's greatest rapper of all time, they dont share my standards and I've made peace with how ridiculous his stans can be

NBA Legend?

drake sucks but I do like The Motto

but NBA Legend is a stretch.

You have to know what a legend is first.

LMAO.

In order to be a NBA legend, you have to be in the hall
Of fame, have a nba title, some true nba accomplishments....

Good lord. I see what the problem is now.

No, I said Drake is a legend. He is a Music Legend, but he isn’t
a hip hop legend. He doesn’t make hip hop music, and that is just
pure facts.

In order to be a hiphop legend, you have to be a legend in the true
realms of hip hop. He is not. The music he does isn’t hip hop.

Griselda, Roc Marciano, The Alchemist, Run the Jewels, etc. Those are guys who
are making hip hop music and are the new legends of this hip hop era.
Not Drake.

You are too busy listening to Drake and pumping him up , that you’re not even out
here listening to NEW real hip hop. Log off and go listen to Conway, and then
log back on and apologize for this Drake Nonsense.

Drake is a Music Legend. No doubt about it. ....just not a Hip Hop one. Drake
makes really good pop music.

>You are too busy listening to Drake and pumping him up , that
>you’re not even out
>here listening to NEW real hip hop. Log off and go listen to
>Conway, and then
>log back on and apologize for this Drake Nonsense.

if Conway is your measuring stick for good Hip Hop, you're stuck in a "real hip hop" box and you dont know shit

>Drake is a Music Legend. No doubt about it. ....just not a Hip
>Hop one. Drake
>makes really good pop music.

Drake is not a pop artist, he's Hip-Hop even if you dont like it

he changed all of the rules, the number one Hip Hop artist is a singer who's average at rapping. I've made peace with it


the Steve Francis point was to say there's a lower tier of being a legend

Not even a nerd.
Not a geek.

But a full blown dork.

You're on neckbearded incel levels of gatekeeping right now.

You're not upholding any sort of ethos. You can be a purist without the lunatic arbiter act, but nope- you turned that shit up to 11.

Just shut up already.

That dude was at all Slum Village and backpacker shows back in the day in the city. One of the last times I seen him was at a Blu show circa “Below The Heavens”. He’s a head that listens to everything.


----------

IG @erichrigonan

he doesn't have to be

back in day, I hated pretty boys, licking lips and showing off body shit. then 9thwonder did a live and I was reminded how dope LL is. he’s believable

Drake acts, coupled with the pretty boy shit... they’re not comparable.

I’m hating tho 😊

I said it not knowing it would be this accurate.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

I don't really care about a Drake vs LL debate, but I do think so flatly saying "Drake sucks" is bogus. He's got a RACK of hits, and he's been doing it since like 09 / 2010, which in dog years is like two decades. There's enough there where if you're not going to like him you can at least appreciate him. I can pass on the singing but he's got like two or three dozen bangers I just love. The albums drag on, but each of them has their guaranteed minimum 5 rippers and his features are always exciting.

You wanna defend LL Cool J that's totally fine but Drake is the guy right now for a reason.

..for all the right reasons.

1st thread I've archived in quite some time. LOL


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

I accept I'm washed but do kids memorize drake verses like the teens of the late 80s did LL?

What is the drake line that is...universally recognized (by a generation) like nobody can rap quite like I can...?

Or hell so many others

Drake might be able to fade Will Smith bit he's not in the same league as the LLsof the world and please don't put him with Jayz that's a no no


on sabbatical.

does it really matter?

wonder what bin's doing?
http://i.imgur.com/phECCMp.jpg

People don’t appreciate or treat music that way. Basically, do you remember when CDs came out? Did you have that person around you who would get a CD but then they’d skip to the singles and/or the couple of songs they knew/like? And you’d figure out that they’d buy the whole CD but never actually listen to it?

Well, if you remember that, imagine if that was the norm. I think that’s where we have been for at least 20 years.

>I accept I'm washed but do kids memorize drake verses like
>the teens of the late 80s did LL?
>
>What is the drake line that is...universally recognized (by a
>generation) like nobody can rap quite like I can...?
>
>Or hell so many others
>
>Drake might be able to fade Will Smith bit he's not in the
>same league as the LLsof the world and please don't put him
>with Jayz that's a no no
>
>
>on sabbatical.
>
>does it really matter?
>
>wonder what bin's doing?
>http://i.imgur.com/phECCMp.jpg

that’s how I view this whole thread as an old head.

I can see Drake is popular but that doesnt mean he is on the level we had LL back in the day.

let these young kids have Drake

Drake literally started his journey with quotables...

Like the first tour after the mixtape dropped.. part of how he scaled so quickly was every city was watching every city before them recite his lyrics word for word (via video) so they had to one up them.

Universal anything simply doesn't exist in todays culture but if you go to the club or a concert and any drake song drops...

Drake even purposely builds them with instrumental mutes and all that...

they outside days were over when Drake came around.

>Drake literally started his journey with quotables...

remember this is a comparison to LL COOL J and you're talking about quotables, you're really making horrible arguments up and down this post and I'd say that regardless of if I agreed with you or not

I dont like Drake like I liked LL in his day and do I think he has the same skill or even personality as LL had? No. But he is the LL of his day (current day).

TBH none of todays rappers are as skilled or have the star appeal of those in the 80's. Yes, even with the easy cadence/flow that was the norm back then.

So Drake is top level for today in popularity I guess.