but I imagine *clearly* defining the class, injuries, and restitution sought might be especially important when seeking damages from a gov, no?

Like, if class action for reparations turned into this broad sweeping referendum on the general impact of racism as you suggest... wouldn't it be tougher for a task force to even begin to scratch the surface?? Not to mention a case for why *only* Black people should receive reparations v. other groups likely to claim a history of discrimination (which, tbf, seems partly your point).

On the other hand, a tighter scope might at least lead to a stronger evidentiary base... right? For example, say a class is specified as all Africans enslaved on US soil and their descendants; and a time period is specified as say, 1776-1968 (*to at least restrict to slavery and jim crow under the US gov and not Crowns of former colonies). And when assessing damages, a task force can point to actual proclamations or federal and state legislation eg. the order to appropriate and distribute assets to the formerly enslaved that was later scrapped; or specific benefits denied to the formerly enslaved and their descendants like wages, pensions, disability income, GI bill provisions, farm assistance, etc; and other relevant damages shared by class members eg. excess injuries and mortality due to terrorist and/or sexual violence, and destruction of property, businesses, neighborhoods and so on.

Isn't part of the goal in this sort of proceeding to not only justify a settlement, but demonstrate that the atrocities and disposession suffered during slavery and jim crow were so severe that the effects persist inter-generationally to current and future descendants of those enslaved? Or do you feel that in addition to broadening class membership, reparations should serve a different purpose altogether? like a sort of reset on racism? honest question


> That’s why my opinion is that Black immigrants are part of
>the fight, too.
>


I understand. We can be allies without being beneficiaries too tho.


>>there's at least 4 parameters I think disqualify us
>completely).
>
>What are those, if you don't mind answering?


I feel like I've been so long-winded already lol, but sure:

*proportionality - historically, black immigrants have accounted for such a small proportion of African-Americans compared to Black Americans. Statutory quotas enacted in the early 1900s capped (legal) immigration flow to like 2-3% the population size of whatever foreign-born population already resident in the US the immigrant would belong to (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_immigration_to_the_United_States#Quotas_enacted_between_1921_and_1924) and remained in effect until their repeal in the '65 INA. The vast majority of black immigrant lineages in the US began in the last few decades (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/01/24/key-facts-about-black-immigrants-in-the-u-s/ft_18-01-24_blackimmigrants_us_pop/) and we account for only ~10% of all African-Americans in the US (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/01/24/key-facts-about-black-immigrants-in-the-u-s/).

*relative exposure (both length and severity) - since most black immigrant lineages in the US are only a few decades old (and at most a few generations deep), we've endured much less cumulative exposure to racism in the US than Black American DOS lineages. The timescales (decades v. centuries) and number of generations affected (1-3 v. at least 10+) differ by an order of magnitude. Additionally, and it may be controversial to acknowledge this but, the severity of racism experienced by black immigrants is much different since most of us arrived after the civil rights era, when numerous statutory protections and enforcement measures became law (tho I concede these protections obv haven't eradicated racism altogether for either group).

*relative risk - even if we focused exclusively on higher order effects of institutionalized racism like mass incarceration, poverty, etc, black immigrants account for a smaller proportion of the African-Americans in these populations. For example, incarceration rates for black immigrants (incl. undocumented immigrant detention) has historically been much lower than those of native-born Black people (www.nber.org/papers/w13229.pdf#page=36). Furthermore, almost 30% of Black Americans live below the poverty line (higher than all other immigrant groups) in contrast to 20% of black immigrants (https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2015/04/ST_2015-04-09_black-immigrants-15.png) which, given that we account for ~10% of all African-Americans in the US, translates to just a 2% chance that an African-American one encounters will be a black immigrant living in poverty (*We definitely exist tho, make no mistake. My family experienced a number of financial blows growing up).

*outcomes - if we look at key social and economic development domains like health, education, and income, Black Americans are in far greater need of investment than black immigrants. Post-secondary educational attainment is almost 10% lower among Black Americans than black immigrants, for example, and almost half that of African immigrant post-secondary educational attainment specifically (https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2015/04/09/a-rising-share-of-the-u-s-black-population-is-foreign-born/st_2015-04-09_black-immigrants-12/). Median annual household income is also ~10k higher among black immigrants (https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2015/04/09/a-rising-share-of-the-u-s-black-population-is-foreign-born/st_2015-04-09_black-immigrants-13/).

I'm sure this isn't exhaustive and there are probably other relevant contrasts to draw, but my argument basically boils down to: Why should black immigrants share membership with Black Americans in a legal and/or protected class seeking reparations when a) we've historically been and continue to be such a small proportion of Black African-descended people in the US and are mostly recent arrivals; b) the nature of any racism we've experienced in the US is fundamentally different than the atrocities endured during Slavery and Jim Crow, due in part to statutory protections that weren't available to those suffering then; and c) we're in better shape across many of the socio-economic domains reparations are being sought to improve? It's also probably worth noting that there doesn't seem to be a huge clamor for reparations among black immigrants (or at least, I've not heard of any immigrant groups demanding reparations from the US gov yet).

I do get the tension between the pan-african and ADOS camps on this issue. But tbh, I feel like pan-african sentiment underpins my perspective as well. Because aside from reparations simply being the ethical thing to do, it's almost *because* I see Black Americans as my fellow African-descended brothers and sisters that I hope yall recieve the justice and restitution you deserve. Not unlike how I'd feel if an immediate family member of mine was abducted, experienced unconscionable trauma, and we later reconnected after they regained freedom. Of course I also experience pain in the situation, but how or why would I even compare??? My family member hasn't even received the care they need yet. So yes I agree black immigrants also contend with racism, but I can't emphasize enough how extremely ok it is to focus exclusively on the families centuries deep in the shit first.