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Forum nameGeneral Discussion
Topic subjectAre these “riots” going to cost us the election?
Topic URLhttp://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13401475
13401475, Are these “riots” going to cost us the election?
Posted by legsdiamond, Fri Aug-28-20 08:16 AM
Don’t attack the messenger

Just wondering if these protest and the whites who are inciting a lot of the destruction are going to cost us the election.

Ionno.. something seems a little off about the timing of this shit.

These bigots really are trying to make this Biden’s America even tho Trump is still in office.

What are your thoughts?
13401476, that's the plan I'm sure.......
Posted by FLUIDJ, Fri Aug-28-20 08:25 AM
.
MY take is that we collectively and vocally bow out, rebrand and re-approach....because these protests are no longer ours....they're something else entirely....
13401492, agreed
Posted by Crash Bandacoot, Fri Aug-28-20 09:29 AM
live and in person, i saw the 'black lives matter' protesters and was
shocked. if that's what it really is, we're never going to be able
to get out of that.

>MY take is that we collectively and vocally bow out, rebrand
>and re-approach....because these protests are no longer
>ours....they're something else entirely....
13401480, Trump has a pretty-good excuse for why this isn't his fault...
Posted by flipnile, Fri Aug-28-20 08:48 AM
He left things up to the states. He can pull out the old "states rights!" card. Could say he left it up to the states to handle their issues, because sending in federal troops would have been overstepping. Can point out that the states & cities with the biggest problems are all run by Democrats.
13401749, Especially the cities.
Posted by Shaun Tha Don, Sat Aug-29-20 03:27 PM
13401482, 1. The police are the rioters
Posted by Damali, Fri Aug-28-20 09:02 AM
2. We need to stop allowing the oppressor to frame the way we express ourselves..we shouldn't use their language to describe OUR experiences...not even in quotations

3. they value property and we value our lives, therefore the destruction of their property is a valid response to the destruction of our lives.

4. the dictator will use any and everything we do or don't do to his advantage. therefore, no Black person should spend an ounce of precious energy, that we need for survival, trying to outhink evil forces that have us outgunned. vote them out is our only play

d
13401502, I've been saying this a lot the last few weeks.
Posted by Brew, Fri Aug-28-20 09:53 AM
>3. they value property and we value our lives, therefore the
>destruction of their property is a valid response to the
>destruction of our lives.
13401519, sometimes there are business owners who... own that property
Posted by Amritsar, Fri Aug-28-20 10:37 AM

>
>3. they value property and we value our lives, therefore the
>destruction of their property is a valid response to the
>destruction of our lives.



sole proprietors even. Not the sgt of your local precinct.
13401538, that's what insurance is for.
Posted by Damali, Fri Aug-28-20 11:37 AM
if there is any business loss that is not the fault of the business owner, insurance will cover it.

that business owner should also be a part of the fight against white supremacy & police terrorism lest their property becomes collateral damage.

again, my Black life is worth more than any piece of property.

the fact that you're so concerned about the property, in everything i wrote, is telling.

d
13401581, This sentiment builds coalitions
Posted by Amritsar, Fri Aug-28-20 02:12 PM
And wins elections

13401611, i said what i said.
Posted by Damali, Fri Aug-28-20 04:10 PM
13401631, I agree with you. My only fear, from experience in the insurance industry ...
Posted by Brew, Fri Aug-28-20 06:27 PM
... is that (a) insurance companies will find some excuse(s) to deny claims, and/or will run out of money and literally be unable to pay (the smaller ones, obviously not the national behemoths).

Then you're at the mercy of the state as a businessowner as far as accessing/getting any kind of money. Which is never guaranteed.

I want to be clear that I'm only offering some context to the situations that many small businessowners may find themselves trying to navigate, depending on which state they reside/operate in, etc. I am 100% on the side of protesters fucking burning it all down in response to these ongoing racist atrocities.
13401737, i don't fear that because its capitalism
Posted by Damali, Sat Aug-29-20 01:05 PM
>... is that (a) insurance companies will find some excuse(s)
>to deny claims, and/or will run out of money and literally be
>unable to pay (the smaller ones, obviously not the national
>behemoths).

>Then you're at the mercy of the state as a businessowner as
>far as accessing/getting any kind of money. Which is never
>guaranteed.

greedy capitalism is a dirty game and when you play in the sandbox, you will eventually get sand on you.

This is why the entire system needs to be dismantled. The insurance industry is completely corrupt. It is not designed to do what those of us who purchase it expect it to do. It's designed for one purpose: to not pay claims and for the company owners to enrich themselves.

Therefore, the eventual outcome is always that we will not be made whole from insurance. i pay for car insurance because its required in order for me to own a car. I know for a fact that that will never work out in my favor. Cuz if i have an accident or any loss, my insurance payments will increase as a result.

And who are the people likely the pay the most insurance premiums (hint: car insurance premiums are paritally based on your zipcode and your credit score)? Black people.

>I want to be clear that I'm only offering some context to the
>situations that many small businessowners may find themselves
>trying to navigate, depending on which state they
>reside/operate in, etc. I am 100% on the side of protesters
>fucking burning it all down in response to these ongoing
>racist atrocities.

I totally get where you're coming from...that's why i took the time to write what i wrote just now...

but we are all connected in this system, cuz even amongst "small business owners", they don't have equal access to the tools & mechanisms to stay in business, because systemic racism. So even their interests aren't always converging. white business owners can get access to lines of credit and other loan instruments that Black ones rarely do (see: the recent debacle with Paycheck Protection Program loans)

again, the whole system has to fall and be rebuilt from a place of equity. people selfishly holding on to what they think is theirs won't help.

d
13401764, Yea I'm with that - we essentially need to destroy capitalism, and rebuild.
Posted by Brew, Sat Aug-29-20 10:10 PM
If that's what you're saying I agree with you wholeheartedly.

My only point was that in the short term, I have some level of empathy for folks who put their entire lives into small businesses, who may have lost their businesses over the course of the last few months in the protests, and who will ultimately get fucked by the insurance industry and be left with nothing as well.

Again I want to be clear, my empathy referenced above is in a vacuum - I support the protests a trillion percent. The loss of property means less than nothing to me relative to how passionate I am about the human suffering that results from systemic racism and police brutality.

But being that I care about human suffering, that compassion also extends, on some level, to folks who are losing their entire livelihoods through no fault of their own and who will ultimately end up getting fucked by the insurance industry as well.

All that said, your point is well taken that if you play in the sandbox, you get sand on you. But we're all forced to play that game. So again I'm just saying I save some sympathy for those who are otherwise good people who will end up losing everything in the course of all of this.

But if that's what it takes to dismantle the system, I'm with you. I guess we're all gonna have to experience a lot of discomfort in the process.


>>... is that (a) insurance companies will find some
>excuse(s)
>>to deny claims, and/or will run out of money and literally
>be
>>unable to pay (the smaller ones, obviously not the national
>>behemoths).
>
>>Then you're at the mercy of the state as a businessowner as
>>far as accessing/getting any kind of money. Which is never
>>guaranteed.
>
>greedy capitalism is a dirty game and when you play in the
>sandbox, you will eventually get sand on you.
>
>This is why the entire system needs to be dismantled. The
>insurance industry is completely corrupt. It is not designed
>to do what those of us who purchase it expect it to do. It's
>designed for one purpose: to not pay claims and for the
>company owners to enrich themselves.
>
>Therefore, the eventual outcome is always that we will not be
>made whole from insurance. i pay for car insurance because
>its required in order for me to own a car. I know for a fact
>that that will never work out in my favor. Cuz if i have an
>accident or any loss, my insurance payments will increase as a
>result.
>
>And who are the people likely the pay the most insurance
>premiums (hint: car insurance premiums are paritally based on
>your zipcode and your credit score)? Black people.
>
>>I want to be clear that I'm only offering some context to
>the
>>situations that many small businessowners may find
>themselves
>>trying to navigate, depending on which state they
>>reside/operate in, etc. I am 100% on the side of protesters
>>fucking burning it all down in response to these ongoing
>>racist atrocities.
>
>I totally get where you're coming from...that's why i took the
>time to write what i wrote just now...
>
>but we are all connected in this system, cuz even amongst
>"small business owners", they don't have equal access to the
>tools & mechanisms to stay in business, because systemic
>racism. So even their interests aren't always converging.
>white business owners can get access to lines of credit and
>other loan instruments that Black ones rarely do (see: the
>recent debacle with Paycheck Protection Program loans)
>
>again, the whole system has to fall and be rebuilt from a
>place of equity. people selfishly holding on to what they
>think is theirs won't help.
>
>d
>
13401766, absolutely. everyone will lose something..there's no escaping that
Posted by Damali, Sun Aug-30-20 12:38 AM
and yes, absolutely, i have compassion for all those that are suffering or will suffer in the short term when/if we're able to dismantle capitalism

but let's not forget that a failed business or business loss is not the end of the world. Pre Covid, people's businesses failed all the time..that's the inherent risk of opening a business. that doesn't mean that business owner is ruined forever

many people have had a business, it failed they opened another one, that failed they took a break for a few years and opened another one etc etc

no one is entitled to a successful business, or a successful career etc etc. But what we SHOULD be entitled to is a universal basic income so no one has to worry about starving to death should their job or business disappear.
13401803, No question. Agree with every word.
Posted by Brew, Sun Aug-30-20 12:41 PM
>RE: absolutely. everyone will lose something..there's no escaping that
>and yes, absolutely, i have compassion for all those that are
>suffering or will suffer in the short term when/if we're able
>to dismantle capitalism
>
>but let's not forget that a failed business or business loss
>is not the end of the world. Pre Covid, people's businesses
>failed all the time..that's the inherent risk of opening a
>business. that doesn't mean that business owner is ruined
>forever
>
>many people have had a business, it failed they opened another
>one, that failed they took a break for a few years and opened
>another one etc etc
>
>no one is entitled to a successful business, or a successful
>career etc etc. But what we SHOULD be entitled to is a
>universal basic income so no one has to worry about starving
>to death should their job or business disappear.
13402409, insurance doesn't cover businesses that are uninsured
Posted by lonesome_d, Thu Sep-03-20 11:19 AM
13401587, Race check. How many black grandparents you got.
Posted by Brotha Sun, Fri Aug-28-20 03:00 PM
You need 2 minimum to proceed
13401649, What ?
Posted by Lurkmode, Fri Aug-28-20 08:23 PM

Amritsar is not Black ? Damnnnnnnnnnn
13402886, You ain’t know
Posted by legsdiamond, Tue Sep-08-20 11:26 PM
13401485, It's the only thing keeping Trump alive at the moment
Posted by PimpTrickGangstaClik, Fri Aug-28-20 09:10 AM
I thought he was dead in the water with the Covid stuff.

But this issue is tailor made for him. He can appeal to fear. Racial resentment. Law and order. Don't need to use MS-13 anymore or caravans.

Trump's initial reaction hurt him. The image of violently shutting it down with force. He's better off letting stuff fester and just doing his right wing commentator act
13401486, it gives media an issue to push the horserace they been starving for.
Posted by Reeq, Fri Aug-28-20 09:15 AM
and im sure some white 'undecideds' will use it as a socially acceptable excuse to come back into the trump fold.

its still surreal to see a candidate effectively campaigning against himself.

'america under my watch is a terrifying place. elect me again to fix it'.

he essentially ran on that same speech at the 2016 rnc and things have gotten dramatically worse under his presidency.

https://twitter.com/EliStokols/status/1299101680970149895


i think things play out like they usually play out with a lot of these republican attack strategies. trump is so overexposed that it gets hammered to death and it eventually just loses its punch pretty quickly.

covid and unemployment are still gonna be here all throughout september and october. will these 'riots'?
13401488, The lack of a second stimulus should be the real story right now
Posted by legsdiamond, Fri Aug-28-20 09:19 AM
13401490, as well as the destruction of the post office during a pandemic.
Posted by Reeq, Fri Aug-28-20 09:24 AM
things that actually affect peoples lives and potentially lead to them dying.
13401491, People don't get off the couch to vote for the post office
Posted by PimpTrickGangstaClik, Fri Aug-28-20 09:27 AM
13401506, people have never had the post office intentionally sabotaged
Posted by Reeq, Fri Aug-28-20 10:07 AM
to fuck up their medications, small business shipments, etc.
13401487, Who knows - swing states are filled with mindless gooberts
Posted by handle, Fri Aug-28-20 09:18 AM
Enough of them bought that Hillary's emails were a menace.

I'd think no - but then again, GOOBERS.
13401489, Yeah... the more destruction and chaos they see
Posted by legsdiamond, Fri Aug-28-20 09:22 AM
The more they will think this is what “defund the police” looks like under Biden.

It shouldn’t be this easy but Americans crave this type of imagery to justify their bigotry.
13401494, Yup. Trump "rescued" the Republican party with this
Posted by PimpTrickGangstaClik, Fri Aug-28-20 09:34 AM
They were getting ready to switch up. They were thinking they can't continue to exist without expanding their demographic reach.

Then Trump came through and showed that that was bs. He showed it's possible for Republicans to keep on with largely just white men. And he showed them how to do it


>
>It shouldn’t be this easy but Americans crave this type of
>imagery to justify their bigotry.
13401495, White men.. and their wives.. and kids
Posted by legsdiamond, Fri Aug-28-20 09:40 AM
I still think there are a bunch of Trump voters who aren’t saying shit but will show up religiously to vote for him.

13401509, youre forgetting the intentional massive voter suppression
Posted by Reeq, Fri Aug-28-20 10:15 AM
and anti-democratic redistricting in 2010 and beyond.

plus a conservative supreme court gutting the voting rights act.

trump didnt show the republican party they could win with largely white men.

the republican party showed itself they could win by suppressing the vote of everyone but largely white men.

that preceded trump. trump didnt precede that.

dems would have regained full control of congress in 2012 if it wasnt for repub gerrymandering that took place during the redmap initiative after 2010.

those gerrymandered maps also led to statehouse majorities and state court majorities for republicans to institute *waves* of voter suppression measures that systematically targeted dem constituencies.

thats about as much responsible for trump as trump is.
13401510, YEP YEP YEP YEP YEP YEP
Posted by Brew, Fri Aug-28-20 10:18 AM
>RE: youre forgetting the intentional massive voter suppression
>and anti-democratic redistricting in 2010 and beyond.
>
>plus a conservative supreme court gutting the voting rights
>act.
>
>trump didnt show the republican party they could win with
>largely white men.
>
>the republican party showed itself they could win by
>suppressing the vote of everyone but largely white men.
>
>that preceded trump. trump didnt precede that.
>
>dems would have regained full control of congress in 2012 if
>it wasnt for repub gerrymandering that took place during the
>redmap initiative after 2010.
>
>those gerrymandered maps also led to statehouse majorities and
>state court majorities for republicans to institute *waves* of
>voter suppression measures that systematically targeted dem
>constituencies.
>
>thats about as much responsible for trump as trump is.
13401518, I'm talking about the RNC autopsy
Posted by PimpTrickGangstaClik, Fri Aug-28-20 10:37 AM
All the stuff you mentioned has been in place and Republicans still struggle. They were getting to the point where all that isn't enough and they needed to expand their outreach. Rubio and Jeb were the wave of the future

Trump: https://media1.tenor.com/images/e87bd58f5b584c16c9385e0ef4ba17f6/tenor.gif
13401521, the rnc hired a black chairman (steele) and fired him
Posted by Reeq, Fri Aug-28-20 10:47 AM
immediately after the 2010 elections. a wildly successful midterms that he was largely responsible for.

one dominated by the racist tea party wave.

safe to say that post 2012 autopsy didnt last long lol (the author sally bradshaw said the party basically ignored it). they knew the key to their electoral survival was being racist and just flat out cheating. not relying on democracy and attempting to appeal to a growing diverse electorate.
13401525, Autopsy was 2013
Posted by PimpTrickGangstaClik, Fri Aug-28-20 10:58 AM
2016 was the first presidential election in its wake
13401533, my bad i meant post 2012.
Posted by Reeq, Fri Aug-28-20 11:25 AM
what im saying is the autopsy was window dressing to enchant the media (like good conscience republican office holders privately concerned/troubled by trump).

it like how we get media reports of the koch brothers sitting out the election or being at war with trump. then all of a sudden the trump administration is packed with koch lobbyists and operatives and aggressively pursuing the exact koch deregulation gameplan.

the 2014 midterms revealed their real election strategy (continuing what happened in 2010).

it was based on white evangelical and tea party grievance (again) and anti democratic measures from koch/alec/federalist bill mills.
13401496, It’s definitely not helping
Posted by makaveli, Fri Aug-28-20 09:40 AM
13401505, btw it says a lot about our country that virtually nobody is predicting
Posted by Reeq, Fri Aug-28-20 10:06 AM
that trump would win the popular vote.

no discussion of him doing anything during his 1st term that would win over the majority of americans.

its basically about whether he can do just enough to exploit an anti-democratic anti-non-white electoral system to squeeze out enough states to hand over the highest office in the land to the 2nd place finisher.

when people talk about all the tension and unrest in this country...they should start by talking about how deeply unpopular politicians can be elected and pass unpopular policies that are completely opposite of the will of the majority of the people.
13401508, berating people to stand with you
Posted by Amritsar, Fri Aug-28-20 10:11 AM
while they're sitting and eating food is always a good look. Or how about marching through the suburbs and shining bright lights into people's homes -- even if they stand with you.


I just pray the general public is not as tapped in to these clips as some of news junkies are.




this is layup line warm up shit for your favorite conservative talk show, podcast, radio whatever the fuck



everyday is a new low for the fringies on the left
13401511, im not completely convinced all of these folks are authentic.
Posted by Reeq, Fri Aug-28-20 10:19 AM
its hard to know whats real and whats not nowadays...but a lot of this behavior just seems weird.

white black lives matter protestors just randomly marching through affluent dc neighborhoods and shouting down other white folks at diners?

iono fam.
13401516, I'm not ruling out that some of them are agitators
Posted by Amritsar, Fri Aug-28-20 10:34 AM
because we definitely saw that at the height of hte Floyd protests.


Agitators dressing the part in all black but are really there to undermine the movement. The BLM crowd was actually really good at calling these folks out and in some cases literally handing them over to cops. I saw one video of a kid trying to break up sidewalk concrete with a hammer. And true BLM folks swooped in and picked him up LOL. Handed him over to nearby cops



Definitely can't rule out the possibility that you have those elements in the crowds too. I also think many of them are just well-intentioned but misguided kids.
13401524, does the media ever interview these 'protestors'?
Posted by Reeq, Fri Aug-28-20 10:56 AM
during the george floyd protests...there were viral clips of the protestors speaking to journalists and live tv interviews and so on.

these new 'protestors' dont seem to get any camera time, no viral clips of them telling their feelings, no clips of them giving their perspective/grievances on their own social media, etc.

shit...most of the clips we see (including the kenosha shooter) are coming from right wing recorders and being amplified/circulated by right wing social media folks like andy ngo.

it just seems like a perfect brew of protestors being present enough to have a narrative about them framed...but not present enough to have their own actual voice/identity.
13401580, Good point
Posted by Amritsar, Fri Aug-28-20 02:10 PM
Though from what I’ve seen there elements within the protest that would attack journalists if they didn’t have security.


Still. You’re right. They should be out there interviewing them
13401531, i've seen them live and in person
Posted by Crash Bandacoot, Fri Aug-28-20 11:20 AM
it's trash
13401534, trash as in fake?
Posted by Reeq, Fri Aug-28-20 11:27 AM
13401536, yeah like weird
Posted by Crash Bandacoot, Fri Aug-28-20 11:35 AM
some of them were shouting and holding up signs that made absolutely no
sense and they were able to mix in with the real BLM group. in dc they
have abnormally large police escorts, the most visible that i have
ever seen.
13401539, how/where are these things even organized?
Posted by Reeq, Fri Aug-28-20 11:38 AM
the george floyd protest organization was everywhere. i saw actual people on social media posting details nshit. these other shits only pop up on viral clips that trump supporters wanna use against them.
13401542, idk
Posted by Crash Bandacoot, Fri Aug-28-20 11:51 AM
this incident was 4th of july at the national mall so,
there were a lot of different people out and a lot of
commotion because they were marching up. people were curious,
confused, scared, and opposing groups started to form.

it seems like they thrive off of chaos/confusion.

the police escort stuff is definitely planned, coordinated, and made
to be a spectacle, which is the point.
13401547, ah thanks for the details.
Posted by Reeq, Fri Aug-28-20 11:58 AM
13401523, That’s why riots is in parentheses
Posted by legsdiamond, Fri Aug-28-20 10:53 AM
I don’t think a lot of these people rioting are allies.

A lot of these people are angry white kids or double agents.
13401532, exactly
Posted by Crash Bandacoot, Fri Aug-28-20 11:22 AM
>I don’t think a lot of these people rioting are allies.
>
>A lot of these people are angry white kids or double agents.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"There is much temptation to use what has worked before,
even when it may exceed its effective scope."

"Roll me further bitch"
13401578, Without a doubt
Posted by Amritsar, Fri Aug-28-20 02:08 PM
It just seems like a LOT of coordination for the blame to Be placed squarely on the proud boys and stuff

Is it possible? Of course.


But I prefer the simpler explanation. These are Mostly well intentioned, but misguided leftist college aged kids

13401512, I worry it could
Posted by walihorse, Fri Aug-28-20 10:23 AM
Now of the optics are fair. Its no longer about the why people are protesting, it now about the who. That narrative only help Trump. I just don't understand an independent who isn't racist seeing what happening and going, yeah Biden's America.
13401513, also its kinda weird that biden is being made to answer
Posted by Reeq, Fri Aug-28-20 10:25 AM
for these (we assume) lefties that prolly dont even fuck with him personally or politically.

meanwhile trump doesnt have to answer for his literal supporters that have been shooting and killing people.
13401514, Fucking Bizarro world
Posted by walihorse, Fri Aug-28-20 10:33 AM
Trump Campaign ads literally showing other countries' riots and passing them as ours. Its ridiculous.

I'm convinced the venn diagram for Trump supporters is 5 categories.

1 - Religious Zealots
2 - Racist
3 - Rich and Greedy
4 - 2nd Amendment gun nuts
5 - Uneducated

I'm Probably wrong and over over simplifying it, but I just can't understand them.
13401529, thats not wrong and oversimplifying. thats the republican coalition.
Posted by Reeq, Fri Aug-28-20 11:07 AM
to a t.

those are the groups they surgically target with their brand of identity politics. from the racist southern strategy, to championing anti-abortion judges (when anti-segregation judges lost electoral appeal), to anti-intellectualism/'elitism', to white evangelicals (who remain 25% of the electorate even as their general population falls), to 'small government' folks (aka cut taxes for the rich and stop paying for shit that helps poor people), etc.

republicans have historically/intentionally assembled the exact coalition of groups you just listed. its been thinktanked and focusgrouped to be exactly that.
13401517, Yep :(
Posted by Amritsar, Fri Aug-28-20 10:35 AM
knew that shit would start to happen too as the protests continue and get worse
13401520, It's quite possible.
Posted by Teknontheou, Fri Aug-28-20 10:45 AM
I want to see Biden's national lead at at least 6 points. Anything between 4 and 6 points I"m nervous. If it gets under 4 points Trump wins.
13401537, fam i dont even feel comfortable with 6 with the amount of cheating
Posted by Reeq, Fri Aug-28-20 11:37 AM
we will see.

i hope we get at least one more big trump bombshell or fuckup closer to the election (or at least around most early voting periods) that send public opinion (and poll numbers) away from him at the point when votes are being cast.

the issue set thats fresh on voters mind needs to be as trump-negative as possible.

the media already seems to be fading away from coronavirus, school closings, etc. and another 1 million people filed for unemployment and it barely made a blip.

these post-convention polls are gonna say a lot about whether bricks need to be shit or not.
13401546, a bit of good news i guess: night 4 ratings worse than night 3
Posted by Reeq, Fri Aug-28-20 11:57 AM
on broadcast tv (doesnt include cable news).
https://twitter.com/Amy_Siskind/status/1299386072464580614

and night 3 was an absolute disaster.
https://twitter.com/JohnJHarwood/status/1299092980444409856

also its not being talked about a lot...but a disproportionately huge segment of the rnc viewership comes from fox news...who is getting record ratings for a cable news channel while overall ratings are much lower than the dnc.

so a lot of the messaging from the rnc is just attracting/hitting their base they already have in tow. those mainstream voters that arent super engaged with politics dont seem to be all that intrigued.

edit: broadcast+cable news ratings in
https://twitter.com/mulvihill79/status/1299387206767792128

trump down significantly to biden.

trump lying like usual lol.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1299345147294109697
13401549, I sure hope not...
Posted by Trinity444, Fri Aug-28-20 12:17 PM
13401553, Us
Posted by Musa, Fri Aug-28-20 12:41 PM
Lol.

13401561, Yes.. as in the people voting for the Dem candidate in the election.
Posted by legsdiamond, Fri Aug-28-20 01:04 PM
13401563, as in the majority of america really.
Posted by Reeq, Fri Aug-28-20 01:09 PM
13401724, Lol this country is finished
Posted by Musa, Sat Aug-29-20 09:08 AM
the only thing holding it up is the military and oil.
13402769, Yup.
Posted by kayru99, Mon Sep-07-20 09:12 AM
13401568, i think it's going to have minimal to zero effect on the election itself.
Posted by PROMO, Fri Aug-28-20 01:35 PM
i mean, the lines in the sand are already drawn, aren't they?

13401570, RE: i think it's going to have minimal to zero effect on the election itself.
Posted by rzaroch36, Fri Aug-28-20 01:50 PM
This is how I feel. Whose minds are not made up? Maybe people who voted for him in 2016 are finding an excuse wo they can live with themselves.

It’s going to come down to overwhelming turnout against him.
13401573, and you just brought up why i think it may help...
Posted by PROMO, Fri Aug-28-20 01:57 PM
because the protests, the resulting police violence against protesters, etc. is keeping the political temperature in the country very high which keeps it in the faces of voters but especially voters who tend to vote democratic - who are also more apathetic voters than conservative voters, traditionally.

so, when just overwhelming turnout is as important as anything, i think this is a constant reminder of that to dem voters. like, you can't skip this one.
13401588, damn Im just now seeing your post. Great minds.
Posted by Brotha Sun, Fri Aug-28-20 03:01 PM
13401575, Rand Paul getting run up on is not good
Posted by walihorse, Fri Aug-28-20 02:00 PM
The fucked up thing is, he experienced fear from an angry mob yet choose to table the anti lynching bill. The irony is complete lost to these assholes.
13401576, Yeah and the mob confirms their worst fears
Posted by Amritsar, Fri Aug-28-20 02:06 PM
It plays right into their world view about the left


As I said up top. This is layup line shit. They can easily tie this in to the Defund the Police bs


Left and right hand layups too. Straight bunnies
13401589, I watched that video thinking homie got yammed up. Anti climatic
Posted by Brotha Sun, Fri Aug-28-20 03:03 PM
People are applying pressure on him to acknowledge breonna taylor. He acting like he got banged on.
13401594, and he saying he would have been killed had the police not been there
Posted by walihorse, Fri Aug-28-20 03:23 PM
Thats what leave me dumbstruck, like guy men and women of color experience that fear as police looked on or participated.

Fuck him!
13401632, I get what you're saying, but fuck Rand Paul.
Posted by Brew, Fri Aug-28-20 06:30 PM
13401748, RE: Rand Paul getting run up on is not good
Posted by Willong, Sat Aug-29-20 03:01 PM
The irony is lost on the primitives yelling “Say her name” to the author of the Breonna Taylor Act.

This is the level of discourse to be expected from the unwashed masses.

The sad thing is they laid their head down believing they were the righteous that night.

You would think that their concern for the victims of no-knock raids would extend to keeping abreast of individuals attempting to stop them. Of course the victims are not the real concern. The goal is to leverage the victims into some form of transfer payment.
13401577, it's a lifeline to Trump for sure
Posted by Mynoriti, Fri Aug-28-20 02:06 PM
I'd be more worried of Warren was the candidate. as smart as she tends to pander to who ever is in the room, and I could see her getting tripped up. I don't know how much "Biden's America" is actually working though.

I do think slogans like defund the police only help Trump. or when you see people who seem to be far more pissed at someone who brings up looting than they are at someone actually looting.

i think it only helps him on the pandemic when you can blame upticks on large protests, or the double standard that some massive gatherings are ok

videos of lefties screaming at a fellow protester because she wouldn't raise her fist just feeds into "the left has lost its mind" narrative.

i assume even the social justice messages on nba jerseys annoy some people, and i wouldn't be so quick to just assume they are all already camp Trump.

I'm not making any arguments here. I'm just talking about perception, and right now what people think matters. I don't think any of these things would make someone vote for Trump who wasn't already but more push the narrative that both sides suck. and 2016 will always have me shook.
13401640, is it though
Posted by Rjcc, Fri Aug-28-20 07:29 PM
everything gets pitched that way...and then it really isn't

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at
13401582, https://twitter.com/kunklefredrick/status/1298344285079838720?s=21
Posted by Amritsar, Fri Aug-28-20 02:22 PM
https://twitter.com/kunklefredrick/status/1298344285079838720?s=21

I’m going to need more convincing that folks like this are outside agitators

Clips like this reek of try hard young liberals
13401584, yeah that's the one i was thinking of
Posted by Mynoriti, Fri Aug-28-20 02:38 PM
fucking twitter in the streets

13401583, you know the rnc was a flop when trump has to bring back the hits.
Posted by Reeq, Fri Aug-28-20 02:29 PM
https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1299415474820861953
https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1299416267938582529

so now after commuting the sentence of alice johnson 2 years ago...and using her as prop during the final night of the rnc...trump is pardoning her.

made sure to include that prayer praising trump for his law and order but also his mercy lol.

its interesting that kim kardashian is basically being written out of the narrative by the trump team too.

reminds me of this clip.
https://twitter.com/MrJeromeTrammel/status/1005249713099206656
13401585, definitely playing it up...
Posted by luminous, Fri Aug-28-20 02:52 PM
https://youtu.be/k56COCVg2DI
13401591, Lines were drawn long before the protest
Posted by Brotha Sun, Fri Aug-28-20 03:07 PM
Despite majority of americans supporting universal basic income and medicare 4 all, Biden has been vocal about being against it. During a pandemic at that. This would have been the perfect time to piggyback off the momentum and support policies that people care about. But no, he wants to coast off name recognition.

Personal beliefs aside, the dems have been shooting themselves in the foot all year and are ignoring what the majority of voters want. The protests did nothing but make it more clear how out of touch they are.


Talm bout "they think i want to defund police? I want to give them MORE funding! Trump wants to defund police not me!"


The cycle is sick.
13401593, we had an election on these issues.
Posted by Reeq, Fri Aug-28-20 03:12 PM
>Despite majority of americans supporting universal basic
>income and medicare 4 all

it didnt turn out to well for them. and that was just on the liberal side of the political spectrum.
13401641, this isn't fucking true and people should stop saying it
Posted by Rjcc, Fri Aug-28-20 07:30 PM
>Despite majority of americans supporting universal basic income and medicare 4 all,

anytime someone says this the only thing you know for sure is that they don't read.


if you look at those surveys and what they asked, you'd understand what they showed and what they did not show.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at
13401647, imagine your *entire* political sense of reality is still based on polls
Posted by Reeq, Fri Aug-28-20 07:50 PM
when actual human beings have already gone out and decided whats what.

dudes talking about winning elections with policies that dont win elections.
13401651, *shrug* meanwhile we're in the panic room every few days
Posted by Brotha Sun, Fri Aug-28-20 08:57 PM
Cause the numbers are looking shaky.

Biden aint connecting with the people. Its looking bad.


Shit, i want Blue Daddy to win, but hes really not trying. Maybe its the dementia that got him looking so bad.

If you're not gonna be a smooth talking warhawk like hillary and obama you gotta start pledging some policies thatll get the people moving. Biden aint doing neither right now. Its all bad.



Galatians 4:16
13401710, I guess this is what you're telling yourself
Posted by Rjcc, Sat Aug-29-20 12:09 AM

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at
13401648, They’ve said it enough times in their heads
Posted by Amritsar, Fri Aug-28-20 07:57 PM
For it to be true


Anyone else is “voting against their own interests”
13401652, No no no baby you cant talk anymore till you tell us the truth.
Posted by Brotha Sun, Fri Aug-28-20 09:00 PM
You black or not?

13401717, I need to be black to speak on healthcare? lmao
Posted by Amritsar, Sat Aug-29-20 06:17 AM
hoping you breath out of both your nose and mouth


remains to be seen though

13401720, *updates database*
Posted by Brotha Sun, Sat Aug-29-20 08:05 AM
13401650, I know attacking people instead of their arguments is your mo
Posted by Brotha Sun, Fri Aug-28-20 08:51 PM
but can you apply yourself for me just this one time.

If im wrong im willing to admit it, but you gotta present your argument.
13401709, I didn't attack you at all.
Posted by Rjcc, Sat Aug-29-20 12:08 AM
pull up your evidence for those statements let's look at it together.



www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at
13401723, bet
Posted by Brotha Sun, Sat Aug-29-20 08:37 AM
UBI

https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/463055-more-voters-support-universal-basic-income

https://scipol.org/content/gallup-poll-americans-split-universal-basic-income-workers-displaced-ai

https://theappeal.org/majority-of-americans-support-monthly-cash-assistance-to-offset-pandemic-damage-to-economy/

M4A

https://www.newsweek.com/69-percent-americans-want-medicare-all-including-46-percent-republicans-new-poll-says-1500187

The surveys are based on registered voters, so pretending the myth progressives dont vote is true, the people who do vote on both sides of the political spectrum are warming up to these progressive policies.

13401760, sweet. so let's start with UBI
Posted by Rjcc, Sat Aug-29-20 08:57 PM
"should the government have a plan"

no details.

no list of requirements, nothing.

anything and everything that would be necessary to make it happen, isn't in the question....

and it's at 66 percent on one side, that doesn't have enough political power to make it happen

do you think that laws are passed in abstract terms? Because once you start getting specific, support changes. but you don't care about actually making UBI happen so you haven't thought about that.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at
13401796, Whats your argument, that UBI is far fetched or that people wont support?
Posted by Brotha Sun, Sun Aug-30-20 11:44 AM
If you think its not something that could be implemented logistically, how do we explain the several other countries with a far smaller GDP/GDI than ours having a UBI?

There's countless studies showing that these policies are gaining momentum. Its silly to ignore it just because you associate it with the progressives you hate.


Why on earth, in the middle of a pandemic at that, wouldn't UBI and M4A be viable policies to campaign on?

13401839, where did I say either of those things.
Posted by Rjcc, Sun Aug-30-20 09:10 PM
I said that the poll question doesn't reflect any realistic attempt to get UBI passed and the issues that would cause people to support it or not.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at
13402811, weird how Brotha Sun can't answer this question
Posted by Rjcc, Mon Sep-07-20 07:52 PM
so instead he lied about an ad hominem attack and ran away


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at
13401843, I hate that people like you claim to be progressives
Posted by Rjcc, Sun Aug-30-20 09:34 PM
"Its silly to ignore it just because you associate it with the progressives you hate."

you do nothing to make UBI happen. I am in support of it and think it's a good idea and should happen.

but your whole identity is tied up in the belief that you're part of a small resistance fighting to make it happen and obviously anyone who criticizes you at all must be against UBI and M4A and hate helping people.


that's such a dumb thought, but because it's your identity, you can't believe anything else.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at
13401880, You couldn't last 30 seconds without going straight ad hominem. lol
Posted by Brotha Sun, Mon Aug-31-20 10:15 AM
Didnt answer a single question i asked.

The cycle is very sick.
13402809, ...you committed an ad hominem in the quote
Posted by Rjcc, Mon Sep-07-20 07:51 PM
if you want to lie, cool.

but if your issue is fallacious arguments then why are you using them.

you know why.


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at
13401761, M4A look at the actual poll
Posted by Rjcc, Sat Aug-29-20 09:01 PM
https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/494602-poll-69-percent-of-voters-support-medicare-for-all

The answers are
"strongly support"

"somewhat support"

"somewhat oppose"

and "strongly oppose"

with 60 percent support among republicans, who all vote for politicians who are completely against M4A, the answer is obviously that no one has any clue what these answers mean.

not the people asking, not the people answering.

if you think this poll shows anything, you're either a dumbass or you're fooling yourself.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at
13401770, i posted a poll on here where details of m4a are gradually revealed
Posted by Reeq, Sun Aug-30-20 02:18 AM
to the people being asked the question.

so it starts with everyone eligible for universal coverage and everyone loves it.

then they tack on the tax increases for the middle class, elimination of private/employer insurance, etc.

and it gets significantly less favorable as people hear more details about it.

public option stays popular with both dems and repubs tho.

and i still havent seen any m4a fans lay out why giving people a choice whether they wanna join medicare or not is a bad thing. except that they cant stick it to the evil insurance industry like they want to.

when people can show me a democrat running on m4a win a competitive race in a purple district/state and not just a primary in a dark blue area...we can talk about it being popular.
13401773, You are comparing SURVEY TAKERS to VOTERS
Posted by handle, Sun Aug-30-20 08:37 AM
Biden beat the SHIT out of 20 people.

If people WANTED UBI, Medicare for ALL, etc then THEY'D VOTE FOR candidates that support them.

Are they good ideas? YES.

But you can't say voters support them when DON'T.

Yang total votes: 160,733
Biden total votes: 18,419,788

-or-
Bernie Sanders total votes: 9,531,092
Biden total votes: 18,419,788

-or-
Elizabeth Warren total votes+ Bernie Sanders total votes + Pete Buttigeg total votes = 13,224,179
Biden total votes: 18,419,788

13401798, Oh come on. People aren't voting on policies, theyre voting on names
Posted by Brotha Sun, Sun Aug-30-20 11:58 AM
Moderates/liberals want someone who's charming and makes them feel fuzzy inside while they drop bombs and cage children.


With that being said, Sanders had hella votes for someone whose policies people dont support.


Instead of relying on fear-mongering and name recognition, it would be wise to adopt some of the ideas from Warren/Yang/Sanders campaigns and talk about policies that will inspire people to mobilize.

Biden will likely win, and we'll be eating brunch and ignoring war crimes soon enough, but we should be pressuring him to stand for...something. anything. a single thing would be fine.

A thing that will improve the quality of life for citizens, preferably. A thing that countless other countries were able to get with no problem.
13401812, Man you are fucking condescending
Posted by handle, Sun Aug-30-20 02:16 PM

>With that being said, Sanders had hella votes for someone
>whose policies people dont support.
Yes that’s called the loser.

You’re being a contemptuous asshole who certainly isn’t going to gain influence and win friends or get your policies put into action,

But maybe some subset of the loser’s supporters will give you REDDIT karma for posting this shit.

So you don’t like the conservatives and you don’t like the liberals, I guess you’re just special or something? We just have to recognize your greatness, and then and only then can we stop white people from reviewing Nas records.

For the record I support many of the policies that you are trying to champion, I don’t support your contempt. And that NAS record is boring.
13401816, The contempt is very much warranted.
Posted by Brotha Sun, Sun Aug-30-20 03:06 PM
You can't understand this for the same reason you can't understand why white people's opnions on black art is void.


13401829, You make me feel like I'm Mr.T
Posted by handle, Sun Aug-30-20 06:08 PM
Because I feel about you the way he feels about fools.

Foxs News:MAGA voters::You:Lord Jamar
13401882, am i now your enemy because i tell you the truth?
Posted by Brotha Sun, Mon Aug-31-20 10:18 AM
13402152, You are simply a loud fool
Posted by handle, Tue Sep-01-20 04:22 PM
Free country, but the shit you post on these boards is foul.
13402190, :( dont quit on me. i didnt even get on my dr yakub soapbox yet.
Posted by Brotha Sun, Tue Sep-01-20 05:34 PM
13402770, bruh talking with liberals about actual political goals/policy
Posted by kayru99, Mon Sep-07-20 09:16 AM
is a fucking waste of time

I agree with you, these riots been a looong time coming and will get worse if real reparative policy isnt passed, soon.
13402781, you see it
Posted by Brotha Sun, Mon Sep-07-20 11:21 AM
13402810, so what makes you not a liberal btw
Posted by Rjcc, Mon Sep-07-20 07:51 PM

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at
13401619, biden is up over 9 pts on 538 again.
Posted by Reeq, Fri Aug-28-20 05:03 PM
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/national/

and hes been 50% or above for much of the last 3 months. much more consistent than clinton.

iono fam. maybe everything is just baked in.

the press keeps going on about the race tightening. but they were basing it on a set of low quality pre-convention polls. and even the swing state poll that they obsessed over where the margin was tight...biden gained ground in 4 of the 6 or so states they had listed.

the low rnc ratings...the already polarized environment...and the fact that dems actually have a unified opposing message (this is trumps america) might make a lot of this stuff a non issue.

i dont think the press really knows how to grapple with how unpopular trump is. during the midterms...we heard how much the economy, kavanaugh, the caravan, etc were gonna be a problem for dems and we got the biggest popular vote route in midterms history with repubs basically becoming 3rd party (registration) status in some states and arizona sending a dem senator and majority dem congressional coalition to dc (both the first time in decades).
13401634, Like mista 5k said to you in another post, stop ...
Posted by Brew, Fri Aug-28-20 06:33 PM
... getting my fucking hopes up. Haha.

I've been pessimistic as fuck since 2016 and it's served me well. Either I get what I expected to get or I am pleasantly surprised (i.e. 2018 midterms).

Cut the shit.



(I'm not serious, of course. But man if I start feeling like we got a good chance I may have a heart attack if it doesn't work out).
13401636, i think people are doing a lot of cherrypicking right now.
Posted by Reeq, Fri Aug-28-20 07:07 PM
it just seems like a lot of people converged on a narrative that dems are worried about trump making gains in the suburbs, overperforming with minorities, etc. and i dont know why. things have been remarkably stable for the longest and im not sure anything can upend that.

i saw rose twitter passing around a poll that showed biden doing worse with republicans than obama and clinton. basically tryna say his overt outreach to aisle crossers blew up in his face.

but there was no mention of republicans who no longer consider themselves republicans and the ones who have officially switched party or gone independent.

i mean look at this fucking party affiliation gap now.
https://content.gallup.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/xhcoat4dducgofndjeyvza.png

look at this crazy stat.
https://twitter.com/peterbakernyt/status/1298976700278222848
-----
Among Republicans, 49% identify themselves as supporters of Trump vs 37% as supporters of the party, per ⁦@WSJ @NBCNews poll. In the first group, Trump's approval is 99%, in the second it's 69%. ⁦@catherine_lucey @learyreports
-----

its hard to really tell whats what after 2016. but damn near every single traditional metric is telling us that biden is flirting with landslide blowout territory right now (even the generic congressional ballot which is as big or bigger than it was in 2018).

and really the only thing that people point to trump having a chance to win is the electoral college. thats the whole ballgame. he would have to pull off another inside straight but under worse conditions for him...with no comey/wikileaks...and dems taking over the election apparatus in the majority of swing states in 2018 and making it easier for people to vote in 2020.
13401646, Yea I don't doubt any of that at all.
Posted by Brew, Fri Aug-28-20 07:49 PM
The polls say what they say.

And I know they're different than 2016 on some levels.

But ... 2016 still happened. Every poll you could find had Hill Dawg in a landslide. And I know you mentioned 2016 but it bears repeating.

You also mentioned the electoral college, which worries me as always. But on top of all of that there's the USPS situation and voter suppression. So even though it seems like there's some great momentum in important states like TX to make this happen, I still have a ton of doubts.

I'm sure we all do. But like I said I'm almost hopelessly pessimistic at this point ha.
13401643, commentators say "it's a lifeline" because they have to say something
Posted by Rjcc, Fri Aug-28-20 07:33 PM
then pollsters go ask and....nothing.

I wish we didn't frame our whole discussions about politics based on these archetypes of how people are

when most people aren't watching the news like that

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at
13401644, so much political news coverage now is pundits guessing
Posted by Reeq, Fri Aug-28-20 07:44 PM
whether or not voters care about something enough to make a difference. and not enough laying the facts out about the thing.

the press basically yawned about all of the felonies committed at the rnc because they thought it was unimportant to voters and voters cared more about the spectacle and pageantry and mold breaking.

then the ratings come out and turns out voters really dont care about *that* shit.
13401712, the way pundits talk about politics is so removed from anyone's reality
Posted by Rjcc, Sat Aug-29-20 12:11 AM
if you lined up all the real reasons people support one side or another, they're never what these talking heads are bringing up

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at
13401639, I wish it were a little harder for right wing talking points
Posted by Rjcc, Fri Aug-28-20 07:28 PM
to get laundered into the conversation



www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at
13401739, bruh
Posted by Damali, Sat Aug-29-20 01:09 PM
our people be swallowing that shit whole sometimes and it angers me so much

white supremacy done fukked us so badly

d
13401762, they just accept whatever they hear on the news, it's actually insane
Posted by Rjcc, Sat Aug-29-20 09:02 PM
and it feels like bizarro land because we do this after every protest and it never holds up.


and then three weeks later we do it again like it didn't happen.

I understand people are busy, but shit, making a note to yourself or something.


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at
13401742, No. Not if people just show the fuck up and vote.
Posted by blueeclipse, Sat Aug-29-20 01:45 PM
The people they are talking to aren't the people who are going to cost us the election.

What will is if people don't take this same energy from the protest and fucking vote.

That's it.
13401754, Yes. VOTE. They better leave USPS alone
Posted by Bambino Grande, Sat Aug-29-20 05:33 PM
13401814, No
Posted by naame, Sun Aug-30-20 02:34 PM

America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.
13401817, abc/ipsos polled the impact of the conventions:
Posted by Reeq, Sun Aug-30-20 03:20 PM
https://twitter.com/PpollingNumbers/status/1300101051769671680
https://twitter.com/Taniel/status/1300054037690187777
-----
Approval on the conventions:

#RNC2020:
Approve 37% (-22%)
Disapprove 59%

#DNC2020:
Approve 52% (+10)
Disapprove 42%

ABC News/Ipsos Poll (August 28-29)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EgrjA8hWsAEJS2s?format=jpg&name=small

Trump’s favorability rating in an ABC/Ipsos poll: 31%. (It was 32% in last week’s poll, pre-convention.)

Biden’s was 40% in the poll before his convention; 45% last week & 46% today.

https://t.co/uCZtXHrqOg?amp=1
-----


this would be the 1st time in history that a presidential incumbent has lost favorability following his partys convention.

13401821, btw all this talk about tightening...bidens lead on 538 is still 8.8.
Posted by Reeq, Sun Aug-30-20 04:14 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Egsex9qXYAEkypR?format=png&name=large

people are gonna attribute any positive movement towards trump in the polls to kenosha, law and order rhetoric, etc.

but coronavirus coverage has been scaled back (even during massive wave of school outbreaks/closures), theres virtually no spotlight on economic hardships, virtually no coverage on hurricane damage (almost like it didnt even happen), abandoned postal service coverage, and trump has had a good burst of (usually overstated) positive news headlines (israel/uae, plasma therapy, unemployment benefits extension, etc).

it takes a damn near perfect storm of positive factors just to keep trump in the low 40s.

now that the conventions are over and we are getting back to the usual daily media coverage...and the media also starting to at least focus more on trumps refusal to disavow his armed supporters and their effect on the recent violence...i think this trump bounce/bump narrative is gonna get put to rest.
13401824, I'm a believer in the existence of the Shy Trump voter.
Posted by Teknontheou, Sun Aug-30-20 04:44 PM
I think it represents about 3 points. So an 8.8 difference is really about a 2.8 difference, which is right around where Trump needs to be to lose the PV but win the EC.

What I'd really like to see is Biden getting his polling above 50%. Not just for him to win, but for the sake of peace on the streets from MAGA types his victory needs to be firm - winning back most or all of the states Trump flipped, plus creaming Trump in the purple states. The more narrow a Biden victory the more room Trump has to pull tricks.
13401830, the hidden trump vote is a dispelled myth.
Posted by Reeq, Sun Aug-30-20 06:32 PM
for it to work...itd have to mean that voters stayed home for romney but came out for trump...meanwhile trump underperformed the vote share of romney and got less total votes than him in wisconsin.

it really just came down to dem voters staying home for clinton and/or going 3rd party (record vote share in 2016).

itd also have to mean that this 'shy trump voter' would have to be mostly suburban and/or college educated whites. because non college educated whites have been his most consistent demographic by far and pretty open/proud about it (boats, trucks, yard signs, etc). but what group have we seen trending the most rapidly towards dems post 2016? suburban and college educated whites.

if anything...theres prolly a better argument for a hidden biden vote imo (as seen in the primary).

this is completely anecdotal...but the farmers market i go to is right across the border in rural pa. there were trump signs all over the place in 2016. now i see a ton of biden signs. even saw one that said 'im a republican but im not dumb. biden 2020'.

thry are even seeing biden voters coming out the woodwork in the villages (heavily republican retirement community in florida).
https://twitter.com/RobertShermanTV/status/1296810023088271363
13401856, I hope you're right.
Posted by Teknontheou, Mon Aug-31-20 08:39 AM
13401840, who is this person who votes for trump
Posted by Rjcc, Sun Aug-30-20 09:11 PM
but doesn't tell a pollster over the phone?

for why?

have y'all met white people? the idea that they're not telling you who they support does not match up with reality

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at
13401842, a lot of these polls are online responses too.
Posted by Reeq, Sun Aug-30-20 09:28 PM
i cant see anyone reluctant to show their support for trump from their computer or mobile device.

if anything...i think theres a trump herd effect...where his voters say they support him and anything/everything he does regardless of whether they really approve/disapprove.

all of a sudden his minimum wage working supporters care about the stock market and the american israel embassy location when asked why they still support him.
13401850, RE: a lot of these polls are online responses too.
Posted by Mgmt, Mon Aug-31-20 06:00 AM
>all of a sudden his minimum wage working supporters care about
>the stock market and the american israel embassy location when
>asked why they still support him.

HAHHAHAHAHAHHAAAA
13401851, The “I haven’t decided yet” voter
Posted by legsdiamond, Mon Aug-31-20 07:04 AM
and these suburban housewives.. I don’t trust these polls saying he lost ground in the burbs with these white women.

Everyone isn’t a flag waving supporter either.
13402151, I'm not saying they all have flags, but they don't need flags
Posted by Rjcc, Tue Sep-01-20 04:20 PM

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at
13401831, btw maybe the worst addition to mainstream political discussion
Posted by Reeq, Sun Aug-30-20 06:40 PM
are betting markets/odds.

i have no idea who started bringing them up as a serious predictor of elections but here we are.
13401841, "the vegas line isxyz" is the dumbest shit even in sports broadcasting
Posted by Rjcc, Sun Aug-30-20 09:12 PM
it doesn't meant that it's the odds people in vegas are giving a team to win!

it's where they're setting the odds to get people to bet evenly on each side.

these are different things!


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at
13402150, biden raises over $350 mil in august (prez monthly record).
Posted by Reeq, Tue Sep-01-20 04:20 PM
and still counting.

https://twitter.com/tylerpager/status/1300892627538194432
-----
NEWS: The Biden campaign and DNC will report raising more than $350 million in August. Final number is still being calculated and could be higher.
-----
13402178, btw the previous record is $193 mil by obama in sep 2008.
Posted by Reeq, Tue Sep-01-20 05:05 PM
so biden could conceivably double that.
13402197, Damn...
Posted by luminous, Tue Sep-01-20 05:44 PM
I spent money on merch... Although I think his merch is kinda lacking...
13402298, biden campaign officially reports $364.5 mil fundraising haul.
Posted by Reeq, Wed Sep-02-20 01:55 PM
https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1301186118621290498
-----
Last month we raised $364.5 million — 95% of the donations from grassroots supporters like you and the majority online.

Working people are powering our campaign — and I’m grateful.

We’ve got a long way to go to close the fundraising gap and win — but we can do it. Together.
-----
13402156, Not a single post about Reichstag Fire (Decree)?
Posted by MEAT, Tue Sep-01-20 04:30 PM
https://www.history.com/topics/germany/reichstag-fire


The Reichstag Fire was a dramatic arson attack occurring on February 27, 1933, which burned the building that housed the Reichstag (German parliament) in Berlin. Claiming the fire was part of a Communist attempt to overthrow the government, the newly named Reich Chancellor Adolf Hitler used the fire as an excuse to seize absolute power in Germany, paving the way for the rise of his Nazi regime.



....


IMMEDIATE IMPACT OF THE REICHSTAG FIRE

A few hours after the Reichstag Fire, as Nazi propaganda spread fears of a Communist revolt, Hitler convinced Hindenburg to invoke Article 48 of the Weimar Constitution, which gave the president dictatorial powers and allowed him to make laws for all of Germany’s territorial states.

Hitler and the cabinet quickly drew up a more permanent and expansive Decree for the Protection of the People and the State (known as the Reichstag Fire Decree), which suspended the right to assembly, freedom of the press, freedom of speech and other constitutional protections within Germany.

The decree also removed all restraints on police investigations, allowing the Nazis to arrest and jail their political opponents indiscriminately. That night, the stormtroopers of the Sturmabteilung (SA) rounded up some 4,000 people, many of whom were tortured as well as imprisoned.

The swift and brutal response to the Reichstag Fire bolstered Hitler’s image as Germany’s strong-willed savior from the dreaded “Bolshevism.”

On March 23, meeting at the Kroll Opera House in Berlin, the Reichstag passed the Enabling Act, giving full powers to Hitler. The meeting, which supposedly marked the union of National Socialism with Hindenburg and the German establishment, essentially turned the country over to the Nazis.

By the end of the year, all non-Nazi political parties, labor unions and other organizations had ceased to exist. When Hindenburg died in 1934, the German Army sanctioned Hitler’s decision to combine the posts of president and chancellor, cementing his absolute power in Germany.

WHO SET THE REICHSTAG FIRE?

The question of who really set the Reichstag fire has remained a matter of enduring debate to the present day.

Many observers, even at the time, challenged the Nazi contention that the arson was a Communist plot. Meanwhile, some diplomats, foreign journalists and liberals within Germany suggested that the Nazis had started the fire themselves as a pretext for taking absolute power.

13402171, weimar/nazi germany rally provocations is prolly more accurate.
Posted by Reeq, Tue Sep-01-20 04:53 PM
https://twitter.com/carterforva/status/1299950936383787009

trump pickup caravans driving into liberal areas and provoking unrest and violence is not unintentional.

the reichstag fire has become a trope for using a (usually false or manipulated) disaster to assume sweeping powers.

the pandemic itself could have been trumps reichstag fire. several autocratic/authoritarian leaders around the world have used it as such under some sort of 'emergency powers' resolution or initiative that gave them unprecedented influence over legislative/judicial/regulatory/etc processes in order to 'protect' their citizens/economy/etc from the threat of the virus.

but in order for trump to do that...he and repubs would have to legitimize the threat of the virus.

13402191, Did you miss the “Antifa” News today?
Posted by MEAT, Tue Sep-01-20 05:36 PM
13402193, no.
Posted by Reeq, Tue Sep-01-20 05:39 PM
13402194, I guess I did ?
Posted by Brew, Tue Sep-01-20 05:43 PM
13402217, RE: I guess I did ?
Posted by MEAT, Tue Sep-01-20 06:27 PM
https://twitter.com/alex_mallin/status/1300875850083110921?s=21

AG Barr in Kenosha says that prior to the rioting in the city last week, federal agents stationed in Chicago picked up information that "violent instigators" from California, Washington state and Chicago were traveling to Kenosha to carry out attacks against law enforcement.

13402219, omg i've seen that building
Posted by Crash Bandacoot, Tue Sep-01-20 06:33 PM
in person, it's a masterpiece. hard to believe that's where the german parliament gathered.
13402363, I have been inside it too!
Posted by SuiteLady, Wed Sep-02-20 07:16 PM
13402296, I just requested my mail in ballot...
Posted by Trinity444, Wed Sep-02-20 01:49 PM
anyone else?
13402300, i will be doing early voting
Posted by luminous, Wed Sep-02-20 02:17 PM
that starts oct 24th...
13402301, Hell no, I’m voting in person. Can’t trust it in NC
Posted by legsdiamond, Wed Sep-02-20 02:20 PM
They are also making the football and basketball stadiums early voting stations in Charlotte which is dope af.

13402311, what about the board of elections office?
Posted by Trinity444, Wed Sep-02-20 02:57 PM
can we trust them? I’m not going to mail it, I’ll have my son drop it off there.

I haven’t officially changed residency yet...
13402369, Ahh, I thought you changed residency already.
Posted by legsdiamond, Wed Sep-02-20 07:39 PM
That makes sense. You should be straight.

13402303, I voted absentee for the primary but I'm going to go in in Nov.
Posted by Teknontheou, Wed Sep-02-20 02:24 PM
Luckily there's almost never any wait at my polling place. I've had to wait once, in 2008. Otherwise I'm always in and out in 7 - 8 minutes.
But I'm in NY; it's going to be a non-issue here.
13402309, I ordered one too, as did my wife, but ...
Posted by Brew, Wed Sep-02-20 02:44 PM
... our polling place is literally 100 yards from our condo and there's never been more than like 10 people in there at once in my experience so I'll prolly just go vote in person, specifically because I no longer trust 45's USPS.
13402315, nope
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Wed Sep-02-20 03:14 PM
13402323, nancy pelosi just handed trump a campaign gift (c) chris cillizza (cnn)
Posted by Reeq, Wed Sep-02-20 03:57 PM
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/02/politics/nancy-pelosi-donald-trump-hairdresser/index.html

we got people being shot in the street at protests, depression level economic hardship, 300k covid deaths projected by the end of the year, schools shutting down within days/weeks of opening, the president waging war on jets full of antifa soldiers with an arsenal of soup cans, etc.

and these niggas are worried about pelosi getting a dominican blowout?

these idiots never let up huh?
13402324, It’s Chris Clizza man.
Posted by MEAT, Wed Sep-02-20 04:03 PM
13402325, The New Tan Suit
Posted by Brew, Wed Sep-02-20 04:08 PM
13402332, case in point for how sexist the good ole boy dc press is.
Posted by Reeq, Wed Sep-02-20 04:27 PM
and its not just cillizza (hes just the goofiest).

mitch connell installed his super pac director as the chairman of the usps board of governors. barely a blip out the dc media boys club.
https://twitter.com/ChrisVanHollen/status/1301228905496555526

nancy pelosi gets her hair done in an establishment where she was extremely socially distanced and its a national scandal.
13402338, Sickening.
Posted by Brew, Wed Sep-02-20 04:39 PM
>and its not just cillizza (hes just the goofiest).
>
>mitch connell installed his super pac director as the chairman
>of the usps board of governors. barely a blip out the dc
>media boys club.
>https://twitter.com/ChrisVanHollen/status/1301228905496555526
>
>
>nancy pelosi gets her hair done in an establishment where she
>was extremely socially distanced and its a national scandal.
13402361, RE: nancy pelosi just handed trump a campaign gift (c) chris cillizza (cnn)
Posted by Mgmt, Wed Sep-02-20 07:03 PM
All the right wing podcasts are reporting this today. All in lock step

>https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/02/politics/nancy-pelosi-donald-trump-hairdresser/index.html
>
>we got people being shot in the street at protests, depression
>level economic hardship, 300k covid deaths projected by the
>end of the year, schools shutting down within days/weeks of
>opening, the president waging war on jets full of antifa
>soldiers with an arsenal of soup cans, etc.
>
>and these niggas are worried about pelosi getting a dominican
>blowout?
>
>these idiots never let up huh?
13402333, Wow...so it's the protests and not the Dems
Posted by afrogirl_lost, Wed Sep-02-20 04:32 PM
running a racist pos that no one likes. Mmmkay.
13402393, Umm.. okay
Posted by legsdiamond, Thu Sep-03-20 09:09 AM
13402407, I think reacting this way towards people that feel that is a mistake.
Posted by kfine, Thu Sep-03-20 11:00 AM

Most voters I know (men and women, black, under 50, progressive) have expressed feelings similar to what afrogirl_lost has said here.

It's very real and should be engaged not dismissed, imho.

I mean, the ticket's comprised of 2 Dem primary candidates who had quite possibly the most problematic records of the entire field with respect to criminal justice (i.e. problematic legislation, problematic policies, wrongful convictions, carceral attitudes and statements etc). Way worse than Hilary. And legacy Dems seem entirely uninterested, or possibly even unaware, of how much of a demotivating factor that is. Especially in the midst of mass demonstrations about racist policing and criminal justice reform. It just ends up painting the little effort they're making as fake/unserious. Look/listen to this interview NPR did with unenthusiastic Dems, for example:


https://www.npr.org/2020/09/02/908874041/voters-of-color-on-settling-for-biden


Voters Of Color On Settling For Biden
September 2, 20203:58 PM ET
Heard on All Things Considered


NPR's Mary Louise Kelly speaks with voters of color of different ages who are not at all enthusiastic about voting for Biden, though they might do so.

MARY LOUISE KELLY, HOST:

There's a difference between having some idea how you might vote come November and being remotely excited about it. We're going to hear now from three voters who are considering or are committed to backing Joe Biden. They are different ages in different parts of the country, all voters of color. Let me let you meet them and hear them answer this question. On a scale of one to 10, how enthusiastic are you about Biden? First, Pastor Carl Day.

CARL DAY: OK. I'm 35, Philadelphia, African American male. And honestly speaking, I'm leaning a bit more undecided at this point. So I'm probably at about two or three as far as...

KELLY: Two or three.

DAY: ...Enthusiastic - yeah, as far as being enthusiastic about voting for Biden.

KELLY: You'll hear a similar level of excitement - or lack thereof - from Parul Kumar.

PARUL KUMAR: I'm 20 years old. I'm a student at the University of Chicago. I am Indian. I'm a woman. And I would agree with being a little bit more undecided as opposed to fully backing Biden. And so I'm on the lower end of the spectrum, so about, you know, one, two, a three on a good day.

KELLY: Wow. OK. And Adrienne Smith Walker, how about you?

ADRIENNE SMITH WALKER: Hi. So I'm a Gen X Black woman in her 40s. We're talking about enthusiasm. I'm probably at a zero. But, you know, I'm a realist, so I will definitely be voting for Biden.

KELLY: Definitely be voting for Biden but a zero on the enthusiasm scale - which prompted me to ask Adrienne Smith Walker, has it crossed your mind just to sit this election out?

SMITH WALKER: No, it never has. I mean, I've been voting for the Democratic Party since the '90s. And I also - can I just add that I think that whoever is advising Biden, they're leading him astray. I mean, just look at how he's handling what's going on right now in the streets of - you know, all this racial injustice that's going on. And he's handling it in a way, I feel, to appease the nervous moderates. And he's not really listening to his base or the activists on the ground.

KELLY: You would like to see him take a more assertive stance in support of protesters and Black Lives Matter?

SMITH WALKER: Yes.

KELLY: I'm curious whether another event of recent weeks is influencing any of your thinking. And I'll throw this out there, and whoever wants to jump on it just say your name and jump. Does Biden's decision to pick a woman of color and make Kamala Harris his running mate - does that play into your thinking? Does that influence your enthusiasm or your commitment to this ticket in any way?

KUMAR: This is Parul. I think that with everything that's going on, I don't think that representational politics is enough, meaning when you look at Kamala Harris' specific history as a prosecutor, it feels very surface level.

KELLY: Pastor Day, do you want to jump in there?

DAY: Yes. I will say this. As a Black man in America who is very, very entrenched with the Black community obviously, especially here in Philadelphia, I'll say that, you know, it definitely looks like pandering as usual. You know, let's do the polar opposite of Donald Trump but still let's pander to the Black community. I mean, we saw that a lot with Hillary Clinton when she was campaigning, you know, popping up in barbershops and local church - Black churches talking about hot sauce. And Kamala Harris was doing a lot of the same pandering herself as she was trying to win the presidency candidate position. And, you know, taking her on after she pretty much implied that Biden was a racist - you know, he attacked her for over-criminalizing Black people. To me, this entire campaign literally just reeks, you know, how can we best, you know, rock the Black vote to sleep?

KELLY: We moved on to talk about other issues on their minds - the environment, health care, the economy. As it became clear how deeply unenthusiastic both Parul Kumar and Carl Day are about the Biden-Harris ticket, Adrienne Smith Walker jumped in with questions of her own.

SMITH WALKER: Can I just ask? Are we saying we're not going to vote, though, for Biden? Is that what you two are saying?

KUMAR: Ultimately, I'm still on the fence about whether or not I will be voting for Biden. I'm actually quite concerned about the rhetoric of settling and, like, the question of whether people are going to vote for Biden yes or no as opposed to demanding more from him.

KELLY: You're hitting on something interesting, which is there's so much complexity to this. I would love to hear an answer to the question that Adrienne put to you, Carl. Are you planning to vote? Will you vote Biden?

DAY: I will certainly be in prayer. I will say I do plan to vote. I'm not sure where - who I'm voting for. I'm being honest.

SMITH WALKER: Can I follow up with that, too? So when you're saying you don't know who you're going to vote for, is the choice between Trump and Biden?

DAY: Well, I mean, there's a third candidate there too, you know? Honestly, you know, me - I would feel better not voting if I really felt in my deepest conviction that I just can't say yes to Biden and Harris. You know, Trump, honestly speaking, you know, again, shows me too much of, you know, him not really caring for anybody. But again, my option would pretty much come down to, do I choose them or do I not choose at all this time around and just continuously keep being that beacon of light in my community and holding my local politicians accountable and working with them and going to work with them in my city and others?

KELLY: It's fascinating. And I would love just a short closing thought from each of you because one common thread that I hear emerging - please correct me if I'm wrong, but - is this feeling that no matter what happens, no matter what you do, no matter what the outcome on November 3, you don't feel like it's going to change enough? Adrienne Smith Walker.

SMITH WALKER: I think it's crucial for us to vote, especially if we're in a battleground state - Pennsylvania - that we vote for Biden. And I honestly believe that if Trump wins, our democracy will fail. Fascism will be the way of life. And you can just take what's happening right now with COVID-19. I am not enthusiastic about Biden. I get it. I understand all his flaws. But I think right now it's crucial that we remove the man in the White House right now.

KELLY: Pastor Day.

DAY: I would say I've heard that same thing. I heard that through Bush. You know, after Sept. 11, we had to get him out of here. You know, this guy's no good. And, you know, Kerry lost. We survived. I was told change was going to come through the Obama administration first four years. You know, and I voted Obama, too. I've been voting Democrat too the majority my life. So here I am, and I've been hearing how important this day is for the last four years - after four years, after four years. So where I'm at, you know, I hear that. And again, I totally don't respect the guy who's currently in office. But at the same time, I can't feel 100% or even 30% saying that these people are going to actually invoke any kind of change to the people who are around me and the people I serve the most right now.

KELLY: And Parul Kumar, you get the last word.

KUMAR: Well, I think that the problems that we're dealing with now aren't just a result of Trump, meaning these are problems that have been here for a while no matter who is president. So I don't have any hope for Joe Biden to make lives better for people. Kind of the biggest takeaway from this election is that maybe we shouldn't put this much hope into politicians who've failed people over and over again. And maybe we should go to the streets. Maybe we should open our wallets. And maybe we should do the work to help people directly because that's kind of been the thing that's been getting people through. And it's never been politicians. It's been the people who've been doing the work - primarily, you know, Black, queer activists - Black, young, queer activists.

KELLY: So much food for thought there - thank you very much to all three of you.

SMITH WALKER: Thank you.

KUMAR: Thank you.

DAY: Thank you, ladies.

KELLY: That is Parul Kumar in Chicago, Adrienne Smith Walker in Atlanta and Pastor Carl Day talking with us from Philadelphia.



13402413, Biden's in a catch-22 no?
Posted by mista k5, Thu Sep-03-20 11:54 AM
He will either lose moderates/conservatives or progressives/super progressives. How can he win both?

I think they're trying to thread that but I don't know if it will be effective and I'm sure they're leaning much more towards winning moderates.

I am troubled with both Biden's and Harris' records but I do think having them in office will be much better than having Trump in office. I do understand the frustration of we've heard this every 4 years. I think people do need to understand that voting is only part of the strategy. The demonstrations should not end if Biden wins. We need to keep pushing for change and voting in people that will be more receptive to the change.

Right now its obvious that Trump does not care about change. He doesn't care about the concerns being raised. I think a Biden administration will care.

For the people that will not vote for Biden because he is not being as supportive of progressive ideas as they would like, I hope they will still vote in down ballot races.
13402450, Thanks for saying that
Posted by afrogirl_lost, Thu Sep-03-20 03:21 PM
I listened to that episode and the part where the Mom said she "knows" Joe Biden made me incredibly sad. My parents always had more radical politics so I can't relate. That must be so frustrating for their kids.

I feel disrespected by the Dems and other Black people who have slick things to say about me not voting for Biden/Harris. And the criticism always seems to come from those whose only activism is voting.
13402357, so a ton a reputable polls dropped today.
Posted by Reeq, Wed Sep-02-20 06:06 PM
im not gonna post them all.

but basically no significant trump bounce or shift in his direction post-rnc or post-kenosha.

any minor tightening can largely be marked up to poll screening being moved from registered voters to likely voters.

suburban white support of biden has remained flat/stable. no evidence the scaremongering is working.

crime in their area is barely a top 5 issue on voters minds this election (if that).

and people trust biden over trump to keep them safe by a healthy margin.

the worst part for trump is that people are increasingly believing that both the pandemic and economic downturn are gonna be here for a longer period of time.
13402403, Question: What is the advantage in painting this election as anything
Posted by kfine, Thu Sep-03-20 10:17 AM

other than too close for comfort? It just sounds kind of delusional and echo-chamberish.

For example, some polling is showing Biden to be *weaker* than Hilary was with some key constituencies, namely in support from Black and Latin-American people, and... she lost. Eg. recent post-convention Emerson polling (pollster rating of A- by 538) shows 45s black support has *doubled* to ~20% compared to this point in 2016, and that he's enjoying almost 40% (!!) Hispanic support as well:

https://emersonpolling.reportablenews.com/pr/august-2020-presidential-race-tightens-after-party-conventions

Additionally, the Primary/Norpoth model - one of very few models to correctly predict 45's victory in '16, and which has correctly predicted every presidential election outcome since '96 except for Bush-Gore in 2000 - predicts 45 will win again:

http://primarymodel.com/2020.

Not advocating for either candidate, mind you. But wondering if I'm the only one seeing parallels between '16 and '20 in terms of Dem overconfidence and strategic misfires...



>im not gonna post them all.
>
>but basically no significant trump bounce or shift in his
>direction post-rnc or post-kenosha.
>
>any minor tightening can largely be marked up to poll
>screening being moved from registered voters to likely
>voters.
>
>suburban white support of biden has remained flat/stable. no
>evidence the scaremongering is working.
>
>crime in their area is barely a top 5 issue on voters minds
>this election (if that).
>
>and people trust biden over trump to keep them safe by a
>healthy margin.
>
>the worst part for trump is that people are increasingly
>believing that both the pandemic and economic downturn are
>gonna be here for a longer period of time.
13402421, I agree- seems very echo chamber ish
Posted by Stadiq, Thu Sep-03-20 12:30 PM
I've seen a lot of spiking the ball over polls with preferred results, partying over convention ratings, voter registrations in Texas, even some popular vote excitement (lol)

No snark or offense to Reeq but this is what Dems do- and its part of the reason the GOP takes their fucking lunch.


They get very self congratulatory, ignore any warning signs, underestimate the other side, etc.

Trump tightening in PA and basically tied in NC should be getting more attention than +7 nationally or whatever. Especially considering I don't think Biden takes Florida.

Especially considering Dems need a landslide.


On November 4th I'm not going to feel better about Biden's popular vote win or Trump's tv ratings being low

So I dont get the partying either.


I think Reeq and others have a huge opportunity to tell us all (myself very much included) "I told you fucking so!" about his Biden confidence...but best to wait until there is actually something to celebrate.

If Biden kicks his ass, wins Texas, etc? I'll post the most gorgeous open apology letter to Reeq anyone has ever seen.


But there is way too much self-soothing and borderline celebrating by Dems imo.
13402483, question: what's this weirdo shit you're doing?
Posted by Rjcc, Thu Sep-03-20 07:16 PM
a reponse is posted to talk about the question that was asked, which is about the rioting.

and then you pretend that the post was actually about something it isn't, and didn't say, which is that TRUMP WILL DEFINITELY LOSE BASED ON THESE POLLS.


what's wrong with y'all?


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at
13402487, huh? What are you talking about?
Posted by Stadiq, Thu Sep-03-20 08:21 PM
Reeq posted about polls...I responded...and I responded
to another reply.

I guess I could start a new thread that says “my response
to reeqs post about polls” but I gotta imagine you
wouldn’t like that.

Did you mean to respond to reeq?

Or do I have to tie every post back to the main topic
explicitly like I’m writing a fucking essay for you?

Usually I get a laugh out of your asshole act, but threads
have little sub topics all the time. I think you missed on
this one.

But if it helps you feel better, imagine I said “I don’t know
man, these riots might hurt joe...” and then my posts.

13402489, except your post isn't about his post with the polls
Posted by Rjcc, Thu Sep-03-20 08:41 PM
and I'm responding to both you and kfine.

nothing in his post says that donald trump can't possibly win

and yet, y'all's responses are about that topic

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at
13402495, im not sure you understand what an echo chamber actually is.
Posted by Reeq, Thu Sep-03-20 09:47 PM
cuz looking at a wide range of data from different sources with different samples of people other than myself or people like me and acknowledging *their* results objectively is the opposite of an echo chamber.

remember when you said i was living in a bubble because i simply interpreted past election data and (then) current polling data that showed biden having a broad coalition even before a single primary vote had been cast?
https://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13305789&mesg_id=13305789&listing_type=search#13313336

same situation going on here.

13402494, the question in the op was about the riots influencing the election.
Posted by Reeq, Thu Sep-03-20 09:31 PM
i posted that the election remains largely unchanged after the riots coverage and trump making his big law and order push.

aka answering the question now that we have some actual data.

anything else inferred from that is on yall.

if yall want me to not relay whats actually going or just lie about the polls to keep everyone scared and non-complacent just let me know.
13402497, btw emerson was absolute dogshit in the primaries
Posted by Reeq, Thu Sep-03-20 09:57 PM
and has already been shown to be an outlier among the recent crop of polls.

their last nh primary poll had andrew yang coming in 1st. he came in 8th lol.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EhCiEchXcAUNXKA?format=jpg&name=medium
13402563, umm
Posted by reaction, Fri Sep-04-20 11:57 AM
https://emersonpolling.reportablenews.com/pr/new-hampshire-2020-sanders-holds-lead-klobuchar-surges-to-double-digits
13402416, ? The PA and NC polls do not make me feel good at all
Posted by Stadiq, Thu Sep-03-20 12:22 PM

Do you think they are outliers?


As far as a vaccine, I don't think that moves things either way. Yeah the media is awful and Americans are stupid, but said stupid people already think COVID is overblown/not real.


I'm a lot more worried about some of these state polls than a vaccine.
13402358, cdc sends states notice to prepare for vaccine rollout by early nov.
Posted by Reeq, Wed Sep-02-20 06:31 PM
https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1301233460971999232
-----
Breaking News: The CDC told public health officials in all 50 states to prepare for a possible coronavirus vaccine by early November, raising concerns over politicized timing.

https://t.co/Um8kPJGjco?amp=1
-----

a vaccine for an infectious disease has never been produced in less than *several* years.

a covid vaccine developed, tested, and ready for mass distribution in 6 months right in time for an election? sounds legit.

im sure the media will do its due diligence and not treat this as if trump/govts claimes are completely reliable and above board like they did with the plasma therapy announcement, unemployment extension and payroll tax deferral announcement, basically every executive order press conference for the last 4 years, etc.

:/
13402401, I work at a hospital - we expected this in October
Posted by handle, Thu Sep-03-20 10:07 AM
We have been thinking the vaccine for healthcare workers and the very ill would be coming in October since mid-May.

Will Trump use this to play that he's the savior and lal past actions were done to get to this point? Yes.

But we were expecting this for a long time.

I only hope the vaccine is effective enough - trump is DEFINITELY making me trust the health experts less.

13402484, as with all things in trumpland
Posted by Rjcc, Thu Sep-03-20 07:17 PM
we have ot wait and see what actually happens

most of the fluff is never what the actual policy is


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at
13402492, I do think a vaccine will be released to hospital workers before the election
Posted by handle, Thu Sep-03-20 09:22 PM
If the phase 3 trials are looking good then they will do it for doctors and nurses who are giving care to COVID patients. Then they'll do it to dentist, then to all hospital workers, the military, then the sick/elderly, then highest at risks, then us.

I've always thought that from what they tell us at work. Plus I worked for Pfizer for many years and the limited people I still know have that general feeling too.

I think that if there is an effective vaccine that you and I don't get it until January at the soonest.

In the meantime his not having a policy to protect people is going to kill at LEAST 50,000 more. And I hope that message can come across from Biden.
13402654, yup.
Posted by Rjcc, Sat Sep-05-20 05:19 AM
I've been assuming that even if things go well with the vaccines, as a person at fairly low risk myself, it will be a whiiiile before I get it

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at
13402424, mmmmmmyeah
Posted by sectachrome86, Thu Sep-03-20 12:56 PM
Hard not to be very skeptical about this. Normally I would trust science but Trump seems to be bullying them into saying/doing what's good for his personal gain.
13402362, trump encourages his voters to illegally vote twice.
Posted by Reeq, Wed Sep-02-20 07:06 PM
https://twitter.com/KatyTurNBC/status/1301293436595773442

https://twitter.com/aravosis/status/1301258371811758085

and his attorney general...the highest law enforcement officer in the land...played it off like he wasnt sure if it was illegal or not.
https://twitter.com/briantylercohen/status/1301300170575937537

and this still isnt getting anywhere near the same oxygen among the media as the pelosi haircut.
13402388, oh so the group
Posted by Crash Bandacoot, Thu Sep-03-20 08:09 AM
i told you about, support and will vote for trump. why?
-he recognizes Jerusalem as Israel's Capital (how does this help Americans in any way?)
-they don't want low income households integrated within their community, brings down property values (racist)
-need more (police) control over the civil unrest (yikes)
-the stock market is up (economy/unemployment is sh*t)
-biden is senile (trump)
13402389, Not sure what you mean by this.. his base is trash
Posted by legsdiamond, Thu Sep-03-20 08:26 AM
we all know that.

My question is based on protest that have a suspicious level of white antagonizers which makes me believe Trump and them are trying to keep civil unrest high to scare voters.

13402392, didn't want to make another post
Posted by Crash Bandacoot, Thu Sep-03-20 08:51 AM
so i put that here but, i think all of these things are in some way related.

>My question is based on protest that have a suspicious level
>of white antagonizers which makes me believe Trump and them
>are trying to keep civil unrest high to scare voters.
>

could be but all of these things, whether it's true or not, lead to
retaining white power and control.
13402425, Arnold Offers to Pay to Reopen Closed Polling Places Across the South
Posted by mista k5, Thu Sep-03-20 01:14 PM
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/arnold-schwarzenegger-offers-pay-reopen-054241298.html

Arnold Schwarzenegger Offers to Pay to Reopen Closed Polling Places Across the South

Self-described “fanatic about voting” Arnold Schwarzenegger moved to put his considerable money where his mouth is on Wednesday with an implied offer to fund the reopening of thousands of polling places in states that have shut them down.

The former California governor was responding to a 2019 Reuters article which noted an enormous number of polling place closures that have occurred since the 2013 Supreme Court decision, Shelby County v. Holder. In a partisan split, the court’s conservative majority eliminated a crucial portion of the 1965 Voting Rights Act requiring states with a history of racist voter suppression to prove that any changes to election laws weren’t discriminatory.

Since then, there has been a wave of so-called reforms in former Jim Crow states that critics say are deliberately intended to disenfranchise nonwhite voters, along with the closure of more than 1200 polling stations. As Reuters noted in 2019, these states deny any racist intent and instead justify the closures, which seem to hit poor and minority districts hardest, for a variety of reasons, most often budget issues.

Also Read: Sarah Cooper Crashes DNC to Defend USPS: 'Trump Doesn't Want Any of Us to Vote' (Video)

Which brings us to Schwarzenegger, who on Wednesday tweeted: “I’ve been thinking about this a lot. I’m a fanatic about voting. Most people call closing polls voter suppression. Some say it is “budgetary.” What if I made it easy & solved the budgetary issue? How much would it cost to reopen polling places?”

“This is a serious question,” he continued. “Is closing polling stations about making it harder for minorities to vote, or is it because of budgets? If you say it’s because of your budget, let’s talk.”

While it’s unclear if anyone will take him up on this offer, the ex-Governator has pretty deep pockets. His current wealth is not known, but estimates from 2011 put his personal fortune north of $400 million. We’ll keep you posted. Meanwhile, see Schwarzenegger’s tweets below:



This is a serious question. Is closing polling stations about making it harder for minorities to vote, or is it because of budgets? If you say it’s because of your budget, let’s talk.

— Arnold (@Schwarzenegger) September 2, 2020
13402650, Changing my vote to yes.
Posted by Stringer Bell, Fri Sep-04-20 11:26 PM
Damn shame.
13402655, the thing that worries me
Posted by Rjcc, Sat Sep-05-20 05:20 AM
is when I look at my 401k and see that it's not just up over the last 12 months.

it's up ytd.

a lot of people aren't feeling the pain of this administration so acutely.

so what do they think.

because the idea that it's the protests or the this scandal or that scandal doesn't really hold up, imo

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at
13402725, Can't Really Push the Lawlessness Angle When
Posted by Thee Phantom, Sun Sep-06-20 07:35 AM
Biden and Harris have been notoriously tough on crime and your Administration has seen an uptick in murder, rape and a bunch of other violent crimes.

Besides, 40 Million unemployed and 190,000 people dead on your watch is going to be hard to shake in a face to face debate on live TV in front of millions. Can't dodge the answers on that and walk away from the podium like it's a press briefing.
13402768, y'all some weirdos.
Posted by kayru99, Mon Sep-07-20 09:11 AM
13402773, Lmao.. is this a yes or no?
Posted by legsdiamond, Mon Sep-07-20 09:38 AM
or a “Biden is the devil so it doesn’t matter”
13402778, It's a "this is a dumb ass question"
Posted by kayru99, Mon Sep-07-20 11:01 AM
It's a "why do you care more about the riots costing you electorally, and not about the actual causes of the riots, which neither of the two parties seem to give a fuck about?"

No matter who wins, the riots will continue, and will probably get worse over the next year or so.



13402802, Remember all the BLM protest and rallies after the election in 2016?
Posted by legsdiamond, Mon Sep-07-20 06:03 PM
yeah.. me neither. Shit fizzled our quick as fuck and the media stopped reporting on Black deaths by police.

All that energy left shortly after the election.

Same shit is going to happen after this election. Media is going to move on to some new shit and we are going to go back to the same old same.

Unfortunately we will still get killed by police but it’s not going to be national news until 2022.

13402803, Uh, i remember all of them, and they kinda led to these riots, partially
Posted by kayru99, Mon Sep-07-20 06:17 PM
plus, the young white leftist involvement in these protests is much different than what we've seen before.
Plus, there's a housing, economic, labor, and health care crisises, during a period of wealth consolidation, all at once.
Those young folks who were in bernie's pocket ain't gonna just disappear.
It's not just black people that are gonna be protesting.
13402804, I know what led to these protest
Posted by legsdiamond, Mon Sep-07-20 07:08 PM
same as last time.

While it’s nice to see more white kids involved you don’t think it’s a little suspicious when it comes to the amount of white kids causing destruction and rioting?

13402824, No. Matter of fact, as the evictions & poverty rise
Posted by kayru99, Tue Sep-08-20 06:59 AM
I'd expect much more violence.
There's a reason why neither party is trying to curtail the police.
Increased income inequality + COVID + filmed police murders = a de facto multiracial coalition made by state's oppression.
Trying to figure which white racist will be able to out "tough guy" the other one when both are pretty solidly on board with a police state seems pointless.
13402829, Which leads to another fear of mine
Posted by legsdiamond, Tue Sep-08-20 08:30 AM
the old “they are both white racist/voting doesn’t matter” woke types.

I’m seeing a lot of this lately.

13402881, so you just gonna ben shapiro from topic to topic? Cool
Posted by kayru99, Tue Sep-08-20 08:26 PM
13402882, If they gotta, after 2000 Gore, and 2016 Hillary, they just gotta
Posted by c71, Tue Sep-08-20 09:16 PM
Oprah "believe when people tell you over and over (and over...)"

They just gotta Bernie Nader Jill Stein bust