crazy show its all over the place but its like watching a car wreck its hard to look away everybody on that show is all jacked up lol

https://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13360584&mesg_id=13360584&page=

I was just complaining about black TV/Film not trying to challenge their audiences anymore and then along coms this show.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

I didn't particularly love the way it was delivered, but the message...oof

about the difficulty of putting language to gray boundaries. about being called crazy.

it brought to mind a lot of past shit

>I didn't particularly love the way it was delivered, but the
>message...oof

she's still struggling to make sense of being sexually assaulted twice...the delivery was perfect because she is still having these out of body experiences when talking in the group...its when she's the most viscerally close to what happened to her...Michaela is a master at this shit and it blows my mind
>
>about the difficulty of putting language to gray boundaries.
>about being called crazy.
>
>it brought to mind a lot of past shit

same here.

d

i hope people take away the right message from it.

She devles deeply into complex issues of sex and consent but not clear where she lands on them other than these are complex issues...which is a good enough message in itself.

I want to let this post breath and people to weigh in on the brilliance of the show before it deteriorates when we start discussing issues like, did Zain actually rape her?


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

>She devles deeply into complex issues of sex and consent but
>not clear where she lands on them other than these are complex
>issues...which is a good enough message in itself.

this is true...plus the show isn't over. we can't yet say for sure where "she" lands (especially since i don't know if you're talking about Michaela Coel or Arabella), so yeah..

>I want to let this post breath and people to weigh in on the
>brilliance of the show before it deteriorates when we start
>discussing issues like, did Zain actually rape her?

um, there's nothing to discuss there tho. and nobody even asked that question in this post or any other i saw on this board so why you even put that bs into the ether?

d

If you're impatient like me and dont mind being a pirate i recommend diving in.

She definitely didn't present it as such in the show.

The character certainly didn't walk from the encounter thinking she had been raped.

And even from the scene itself, it wasn't clear that Zain was lying about not knowing that she wasn't aware that he had taken the condom off. He didn't hide the fact that he removed it (if he were trying to deceive her, there was no reason he told her what happened when he did).

She seemed annoyed by the incident but it didn't stop her from dating him. And it wasn't anything he did that made her change her mind about the incident. It was based on something she heard about online. There was no indication or confirmation that what she had read about online was what Zain actually did but of course this would have a huge impact on someone who was already suffering the Trauma of rape.

She discusses it with a police officer who says yes its rape in this jurisdiction, but wouldn't be rape in other jurisdictions.

She didn't confront him or discuss it with him instead she got the confirmation she needed from a nebulous conversation with another woman who could be interpreted as saying anything from he gets around to he is a rapist.

Then the episode ends (or is it the next) with the comfort of the online likes.

And the next episode has the story of a woman leading a rape support group, who happens to have falsely accused a black kid of rape (and Arabella knows it).


There is definitely a way to tell the story in a very straight forward way where there is no doubt that Zain had raped Arabella.

In fact, she shows it with Kwame and the episode shows a clear contrast between how Kwame was treated as a black gay man and her accusation.

but Coel painstakingly crafts a story that avoids such black and white storytelling.

I mean I guess this is the part where you tell me I'm this horrible misogynist but for what its worth my wife watched the episode and felt sorry for Zain having been publically confronted like he was.




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

You can't assume what Michaela thought. It doesn't really matter what your wife thought in this context because she's not posting, you are.

If anything this show makes it clear that rape isn't black or white....I'm also speaking as someone who has seen the entire series. But...I'm done here. Hope you enjoy the rest of the show.

My point is it's unclear/ambiguous, not black or white what the filmmaker thought.

You start off by saying it was "definitely rape" and then end off saying its not "black or white"?

How do those two points go together?


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

why is that hard to understand?

the actions depicted in the series is rape.

Zain removed his condom without getting her consent. him telling her afterward doesn't change what he did

rape is still rape even when the rapist is sorry or cute or sympathetic or honest about the rape

its still rape

rape is rape whether one jurisidiction says it is or another doesn't

rape is still rape even when the victim is unsure, or keeps dating the person, or presses charges or doesn't press charges

rape is still rape even if your wife watched the scene and felt sorry for him getting called out

rape is rape.

d

The less complicated answer is if Zain had reasonably thought she saw him or had consented to him removing his condom then it would not be rape.

What's interesting to me is that the show is doing the exact opposite of presenting the idea that "rape is rape" and is instead presenting many different scenarios with complex issues around sex and consent.

Another example would be did Kwame violate the white girl by not letting her know that he was gay when it was clearly something she would not have consented to doing if she had known. Did she have a right to know that?

Again, something I am sure you have a simple POV on but I don't think the show presented it that easily.




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

>The less complicated answer is if Zain had reasonably thought
>she saw him or had consented to him removing his condom then
>it would not be rape.
>
>What's interesting to me is that the show is doing the exact
>opposite of presenting the idea that "rape is rape" and is
>instead presenting many different scenarios with complex
>issues around sex and consent.

Yes, but don't get it twisted...her storytelling is magnificent and nuanced but i think what you're missing is the impact of the frame of reference... i'm assuming you know Michaela was drugged and raped during her time writing season 2 of Chewing Gum? she's giving us a glimpse into the confusion, self-doubt and self-loathing she experienced...so everything you're seeing should really be interpreted from that lens

that's all i'm saying. you're coming off like you're looking for outs in real life... you seem a bit too excited about these grey areas. and that's offputting to me.

>Another example would be did Kwame violate the white girl by
>not letting her know that he was gay when it was clearly
>something she would not have consented to doing if she had
>known. Did she have a right to know that?

No and no. that's like saying a married man violated me cuz he didn't tell me he had a wife before we fucked LOL no. he lied..he didn't violate her..so not the same thing dude, come on

yikes.

>Again, something I am sure you have a simple POV on but I
>don't think the show presented it that easily.
>

but to me, the show presents these things very clearly. if you're looking to be comforted by grey areas, then that's what you're going to find.

d

when she was turned around and facing away from him?

sexual assault and/or rape (yes, Kwame too). The show is moreso challenging the narrative that perpetrators can't also be sympathetic protagonists. Or, that it's important that we scrub away how much we like or are rootng for or identify with someone (or disklike their victim - like with the two white girls, or Biagio) when assessing whether they did something wrong. There's really not much or anything murky or complex about the assaults themselves.

these are complex
>issues...which is a good enough message in itself.

No it isnt. "This is complex" means nothing.


People should take away from the series that there's no such thing as a perfect victim and thinking someone needs to be blameless or even likable to be sympathized with is dangerous

that relationships/trauma/victimhood/life is not linear. we're not existing in a novel where the arcs are clean and coherent, so practicing discernment and patience is vital.

Sexual violence, like all things, exists on a spectrum; and often people rely on "Grey areas" to absolve abusers and do nothing for victims


(Spoiler alert for the finale) There's no perfect ending after someone is harmed, because the impact doesnt go away. Thinking with a communal lens (not leaving your very drugged and drunk friend in a club) will prevent the harm being done in the first place.



I think she strategically left certain themes open for interpretation because you get more resistance when your stance is explicit (i highly doubt TheTruth would enjoy this show if she went the on-the-nose route like Dear White People)

>I think she strategically left certain themes open for
>interpretation because you get more resistance when your
>stance is explicit (i highly doubt TheTruth would enjoy this
>show if she went the on-the-nose route like Dear White
>People)

Best show I've seen all year. I read that Coel wrote 191 drafts of the show. It shows.

some people have finished it already via websites that have all the episodes.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/146578162845960035/

Don’t be in such a hurry to condemn a person because he doesn’t do what you do, or think as you think. There was a time when you didn’t know what you know today. - Malcolm X

I'm trying to hang in there.

Too much shock value content. I like Zendaya and her family story line. The weird sex stuff was just too much. I don't understand why weird sex has to be the wild card on every tv show.

>I'm trying to hang in there.

why?

d

it as a recommended watch on my algorithm...but haven't been able to bring ourselves to watch it. The way the description is framed....just don't seem like something that could be "enjoyable" to watch....which is fine....some stuff isn't supposed to be "enjoyable".... but when it's presented as a comedy...I just get kinda confused at how the base subject matter is going to be presented in a comedic fashion.....




"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

not a comedy. And not a "fun" watch, but a very well done show, which tries its best to tackle the subject from many angles.

"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

high in Italy. It is drama. And it is enjoyable.

brilliant fucking writing and self examination...shit

i'm not writing another word of my shit until i finish this series...this is inspiring me to write the most unfiltered, realest unbridled shit

i love her so much

d

but Bella is a drug abuser and when you have friend or family member like that you can’t be there to save them every time.

Although it wasn’t shown I’m sure there were countless times when Terry WAS there for Bella it was just tragic that one of those times when Terry wasn’t able to be there Bella was raped.

Terry’s culpability here.

The way she advised Simon was unfortunate, but I felt he had more responsibility to her in the moment (as someone who was physically present with Bella) than Terry did. This whole pawning it off on her by saying “well she told me to” never sat right with me at all. And I agree, there were probably a bunch of times Terry did stick around.

But I don’t know. Maybe I’m a shit friend too...

hang up on him, Kwame had his own agendas and Bella is grown woman and made her decisions.

And I have to wait to watch every week like a commoner?

I have to say I am mad at her for inviting him back to her place and mad at him for accepting after everything they have been through.

flipped the screen over

he owed her. she collected, extracted what she needed from him, then discarded him.

life is complex like that sometimes and i feel like that scene perfectly encapsulated that...it was her brand of justice, as there wasn't any other justice for her to have in regards to him.

i won't go into detail, and have never really talked about it, but i did something sorta similar once and i felt seen by that scene.

d

and then watching that vid about loneliness. Appreciated how that struggle has been largely invisible to those around him because that's really how it goes. Nobody sees you. Nobody cares.

thinking about the text Kwame received from ole girl while he was in the gallery. How one person's violator can be another person's dream date. No great revelation there, but the scene struck that sore spot that wonders why other people get to move on and maybe even "be happy" while you're still hurt and processing what happened. (not trying to ignore how problematic she is however. just saying that's what the scene made me think about.)

Also thinking about Kwame's perennial dating question of whether someone can be the right person for you, but you met them at the wrong time. don't know.

She just let go? Let it go and was able to move on? Or is there a possibility that any of those could have happened? Explain the beach scene please.

confused

but i'm in this boat.

like, i assume she just...got over it. was able to come to grips with all of it and realize she just had to keep moving on i suppose.

but like, was that it?

i don't think any of those scenarios happened. i don't think she ever confronted him at all. (and while i do think the full memory finally returned to her, i'm not entirely clear if she even actually saw the rapist again at ego death. however, as a viewer i want that to be true.)

i interpreted all those iterations as her still trying to write the end of the book and also just processing the most difficult part of the journey--what to do with the solidified image of the rapist.

in the first draft, she experiments with vengeance. in the second draft, there's some sort of confession/explanation and then an official recognition of his guilt by the criminal justice system. in the third draft, it's imagining what it could have been like if it was consensual, and if she (and Terry) had never been robbed of full control from the first encounter at the bar to the decisive dismissal from her bed and from under it.

all the drafts help get her to a point where she's able to have some sort of merging of her light and her dark and transition to "letting go". i don't think "let go" means she's completely pain free or memory free. it just means she's hungry for the rest of her life already, so she's deciding.

I'm not sure, but I think the final image represents some kind of version of her merged self. a merging of all the ambiguities, of the version of her above and below the bed, a la the book cover and the diagram the therapist draws for her in ep. 9. she looks mischievous and a little scary, but she's also running free in the sunlight.

Humans love a good revenge plot, so her writing all these different scenarios with her rapist was her poking at us like "Is this what you wanted? Was this fulfilling? Is Arabella at peace?"

confronting us with question of what the "solution" is supposed to be.


>her poking at us like
>"Is this what you wanted? Was this fulfilling? Is Arabella at
>peace?"
>
>

nm

your explanation and i think you're probably pretty close to dead on.

I recently went through an incident where I was threatened and I didn’t feel safe in my home

A violation, not on the scale of rape obviously, but a violation nonetheless

I played out similar scenarios in my head

Using a license plate # to track down the perp
Violate him and make him feel threatened
Confront him with violence, etc...

But eventually, you move on, you let it go
There’s no way to change what happened
She will never be unraped
Killing the perp
Raping the perp
Etc...
Bella will always be a rape survivor

Finishing the book was literal, IMO
It allowed her to constructively purge those emotions
...and close that chapter...

The final shot, the character is back at the beach, where we saw her at her most tragic point
...but she’s laughing, happy, and frolicking on the beach instead of trying to drown herself...

She was free.

go to the bar that night is much more like a real life experience. I've never been violated like that before, but I can assume that people who have, don't get the experience of those first couple ending - they probably wish they had those experiences, but that last ending is probably the most common.

was the one where Bilagio slid her passport under the door at the end. After that, I was just trying to see how it was going to end.

i got a lot out of the whole series but i understand what you mean. i rewatched that scene of her banging at the door a couple of times.



>was the one where Bilagio slid her passport under the door at
>the end. After that, I was just trying to see how it was going
>to end.

One of my favorite endings to a series

I probably wouldn’t have watched without this post, so thanks

Loved it.

but a fan of Coel now... gonna rewatch Chewing Gum too, on account how good this was.

thnx OKP!

HBO/BBC instead of them for IMDY).

first season was funny. second season was a mess. but knowing what happened to her while she was writing the second season...

Season two was a mess

She touched on a lot of different ways you can violate someone.

The last episode when she had dude on the bus all bloody.. I was like “hold up, this can’t be real”

I kept seeing people laugh at the passport under the door.. and it was even funnier than expected.

A joke

And in Hollywood that shit still matters.