If anyone is curious “Hamilton” debuts on Disney+ at 12am midnight PST and 3am EST tonight.

Can't wait!!

.

n/m

Me and the wife both took the day off work.

Gonna DoorDash some Italian food and two bottles of wine.

BEEN planning.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Now i can finally delete the ticket lottery app from my phone LOL

d

He's 2/2.
There was a time my media obsessed ass would have known that.
I'm OK with it.

I’m sure it’s great but I’m good on that.

First thing I thought of.

Lin's singing was eh and took me out of the show whenever he sang...but his performance was solid..loved his emotion and exuberance

and everything else, my god...so fucking amazing

The writing
the rhyming
the story
the direction
the lighting
the singing
the music
the staging
the acting
the blackness
the hip hop


fucking hell, i can watch this shit a zillion times

King George, fucking perfect
The rewind Satisfied scene - gives me the chills..her voice!!

i could go on and on. Lin Manuel Miranda created a true masterpiece..I'm in awe of his genius...like even he knows he will never top this..he said it straight out lol

d

And to be SUPER honest it was hard for me to get into him fake crying during "It is Quiet Uptown", I know I know it is such an emotional song and a beautifully written one but I couldn't get it out of my head the thought of "Man he really isn't believable here".

Lin reminds me of Kanye, where he produces such great beats but is just an okay rapper, where here it feels like the money backers probably wanted someone stronger overall as the lead but since he wrote everything for Hamilton they had no choice but to let him be the star of his own show lol.

where here it feels like the money
>backers probably wanted someone stronger overall as the lead
>but since he wrote everything for Hamilton they had no choice
>but to let him be the star of his own show lol.

Money backers don't make casting decisions, which is why they are the money backers

Cuz if the money backers had their way, hardly anybody white would have been on that stage.

d

to glorify slavers and genociders and only tangentially reference the fact that you're "fighting for freedom" while keeping a whole people in bondage. Yikes.

there was some good in this feat:

Video Direction: A+
Cast: A+
Stage Direction: A+
Technical Lyricism: A


But the story, sequencing, songs, "acting", and overall heart of the production felt a little underwhelming given all the hype. I could see why some audiences would have sensory overload seeing this for the first time and without subtitles and be mesmerized by everything, but it was kinda just alright, and way too rap dependent.

I see how it was a thing during the Obama years, but maybe just doesn't age well for the current social climate. Wish this same energy went into a production of "L'Overture".

but I still thoroughly enjoyed it and will watch again and again

I don't think Lin would have made this right now...its literally a period piece

d

people are all hype about this shit.

you would think, with all that's going on, there's be some kinda #cancelhamilton shit going on, but i'll be damned if this isn't sliding right by completely unscathed.

i went shopping on Saturday and when i came home my mother in law, brother in law and niece were watching that ish. i went straight into the bedroom until it was over. ZERO interest.

is getting on Black folks for liking it.

Totally hits different than Black folks discussing these various points amongst themselves.

WHAT I SAID IS, i'm surprised that there's no backlash considering the current temperature in the room.

which is what i typed.

but yes, come at me for some shit i didn't say.

edit: also, i read the biography the musical is generally based upon. i don't need to see the musical.

>WHAT I SAID IS, i'm surprised that there's no backlash
>considering the current temperature in the room.

sometimes i wish i could.

most days i'm glad i don't.

but, i do go on enough that i usually catch at least a whiff of most things. i haven't seen any critique, discussion, etc. online.

maybe i just missed it this time though. it happens occasionally.

I'm not sure if it's always been and I just started noticing or what but it seems like dude has been line-stepping a lot lately lol...

For those that know how, at the time it was made, how unlikely it was for a latino man to get access to Broadway at that level, with an all Black and brown cast, with hip hop aas the vehicle, with that subject matter...

when it was assumed that a Black cast couldn't possibly generate the success it did...

lightning struck. its a momentously historical achievement

again, YOU don't need to understand.

But all the Black actors, stagehands, stage managers, musicians etc that saw doors open for them on Broadway that were closed and nailed shut totally understand. and that's what matters to me

d

i do understand that.

but, people gonna people, and considering recent events, where people are tearing down statues of the founding fathers and wanting the face of a mountain imploded for bearing the likenesses of some of those same founding fathers (which i'm all for) i'm just surprised this isn't being flamed right now, despite the project's origins and actors.

and that was my only point.

edit: but i did some googles, and apparently there has been some "backlash" for lack of a better word. and in light of that i'll say i'm surprised the backlash isn't stronger considering the environment right now.

on the FLIP side, i'm glad that actors and creators are getting shine in the media. hopefully the renewed interest in Hamilton (was it renewed? did it even really go away? i don't know) leads to more opportunities for Black and Latinx talent. lord knows we need it.

>edit: but i did some googles, and apparently there has been
>some "backlash" for lack of a better word. and in light of
>that i'll say i'm surprised the backlash isn't stronger
>considering the environment right now.

again, that's probably because it was made through the lens of a person of color...meaning we should be afforded some leeway to retell problematic stories with a twist, for the sake of art, if we so choose

also, cuz its not a new production..just newly seen by most.

the backlash would be way stronger if not for those 2 things.

d

I'm glad Leslie Odom and other black folks got a chance to make some money, but the show is mad problematic and the music is cringe to me.

>I'm glad Leslie Odom and other black folks got a chance to
>make some money, but the show is mad problematic and the music
>is cringe to me.

fair enough

d

>For those that know how, at the time it was made, how
>unlikely it was for a latino man to get access to Broadway at
>that level, with an all Black and brown cast, with hip hop aas
>the vehicle, with that subject matter...

it uses black culture without having a black audience in mind. ticket prices and society's embrace (like hip-hop wasnt already brilliant for 30 years) reflect that much


>when it was assumed that a Black cast couldn't possibly
>generate the success it did...

>lightning struck. its a momentously historical achievement

if "lightning struck" means rich white people love it and that's your measuring stick for success, okay


>again, YOU don't need to understand.

>But all the Black actors, stagehands, stage managers,
>musicians etc that saw doors open for them on Broadway that
>were closed and nailed shut totally understand. and that's
>what matters to me

I understand people having creative dreams, but is a big opportunity really worth the magical negro experience

>it uses black culture without having a black audience in mind.

have you seen the show?

>ticket prices and society's embrace (like hip-hop wasnt
>already brilliant for 30 years) reflect that much

ticket prices were reflective of Broadway

>if "lightning struck" means rich white people love it

nope. that's not what lighting struck means. why don't you ask instead of assuming?

and
>that's your measuring stick for success, okay

it isn't, okay.

>>again, YOU don't need to understand.

>I understand people having creative dreams, but is a big
>opportunity really worth the magical negro experience

have you seen the show? are you a person who has tried to make a living in the Broadway space as a an actor, musician, stage director, director, lighting technician, or a propmaster?

d

>>it uses black culture without having a black audience in
>mind.
>
>have you seen the show?

"have you seen the show?" is a counterproductive means of making a point.

the concept is explaining American history through the lens of rapping. while Im sure part of the original mission was to gain validation for Hip-Hop from outsiders, it's a phenomenon where only Hamilton is seen as brilliant and worthy of praise, and my culture still isnt worthy of learning about





>>ticket prices and society's embrace (like hip-hop wasnt
>>already brilliant for 30 years) reflect that much

>ticket prices were reflective of Broadway

in 2010 I saw Fela and it wasnt what I've heard Hamilton costs



>>if "lightning struck" means rich white people love it
>
>nope. that's not what lighting struck means. why don't you ask
>instead of assuming?

my only assumption was 'lightning struck' meant it was a massive success. 'rich white people love it' is part of that, but I wasnt out to put words in your mouth




>>I understand people having creative dreams, but is a big
>>opportunity really worth the magical negro experience
>
>have you seen the show? are you a person who has tried to make
>a living in the Broadway space as a an actor, musician, stage
>director, director, lighting technician, or a propmaster?

you did that thing again where you asked things that we know the answer to.

if making it on Broadway was my dream, I dont know that Hamilton would be worth sacrificing my blackness. Im not saying that any black person is wrong for being a part of the show or enjoying it

>if making it on Broadway was my dream, I dont know that
>Hamilton would be worth sacrificing my blackness.




Right. The requirements to get in the door sometimes just mean we need to build another building. White supremacy stands stronger on its principles than we do ours. We gotta stop throwing integrity out the window to be the "first Black" b/c what does that even mean if you had to sell out your own?

like what the fuck

a retelling of the story with facts and flawed (which makes us whole) characters

not the chopped down a cherry tree nonsense

while the "other side" is still defending the confederacy with myths

LMM wanted to explore people beyond highway naming...

I am interested in seeing the Ishmael Reed response play "The Haunting of Lin-Manuel Miranda"

From reading up on it it sounds like he tries to be civil about educating LMM

before engaging with the another play that critiques it?

seems kinda weird to me that the thing you want to watch instead is by someone who probably watched all of Hamilton in the first place lol

d

The Haunting sounded interesting based on the write up in The Nation
https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/ishmael-reed-haunting-of-lin-manuel-miranda-hamilton-play-review/

It wasn't mind blowing by any means but I *get* it.

TC:
"Hamilton the play and the movie were given to us in two different worlds & our willingness to interrogate things in this way feels like a clear sign of change"
"I totally get the frustration about it being a play about slaveholders that is not about slavery. I've felt that in lots of things i watch, but i flex the same muscle i use when i listen to hip hop as a black woman. we enjoy problematic things all the time."
"after reading the critiques i would have appreciated more context about hamilton & slavery. but to lump it in with statues of columbus and robert e lee denies this conversation the nuance it deserves & we're capable of giving it that."

LMM:
All the criticisms are valid. The sheer tonnage of complexities & failings of these people I couldn’t get. Or wrestled with but cut. I took 6 years and fit as much as I could in a 2.5 hour musical. Did my best. It’s all fair game.

appreciate Hamilton as a work of art.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

I like history, I like rap... I even like some musicals.

However, I didn’t enjoy what I watched initially. Just didn’t feel like something I would enjoy for 3 hours.

If you aren't down with Musicals in general, it might be a tough experience, especially by TV instead of the theater.

I guess I am thrown by the people who are more like it's "meh" then those who just said they didn't enjoy it.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

I might circle back and power thru it if there is nothing else on..

But I wasn’t in no type of mood to see that shit even tho I was looking forward to it. Once it started I was like.. “nope, lemme see what else is on”

I've kept my personal thoughts out of this post, because I've tried to work on letting people enjoy things

what's so hard about accepting that everything isnt for everyone

Anyone with even the slightest knowledge of american history should be able to see that.

is part of why it's such an accomplishment.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

if not then youre miserable and hate nuance.

But my goodness it was really well done.

its just so intellectually dishonest to criticize a piece of art you haven't actually viewed..to discuss "the idea of it" is so disingenuous to me lol

i got mad respect for those who saw the whole thing and hated it tho.

d

I've quit Netflix shows that werent holding my interest, I can tell if I like a writer's style within a few pages of a book, new artists get a few songs for me to determine if I want to keep listening to an album

if Hamilton doesnt do it for me, Im not required to experience it all to confirm my initial impression

our time on this planet is finite with an infinite number of ways to spend it. if I sat through everything I wasnt enjoying, there wouldnt be as much time for the things that exhilarate me

like why is that so hard for you?

i don't have shit to say about a movie, play or tv show I haven't seen. period

i don't critique books i haven't read


d

>like why is that so hard for you?

for what it's worth, I havent spoken negatively about the play. I chimed in on my issues which are mostly based on the audience and racial dynamics


>i don't have shit to say about a movie, play or tv show I
>haven't seen. period

okay, I've seen bits and pieces of Hamilton and decided it wasnt up my alley, which isnt calling it bad. I dont need to sit through it all to decide Im not interested

you're not required to spend any more time than you want to on a piece of art

that's one thing.


But you ventured WAAAAY beyond that opining "it uses black culture without having a black audience in mind."

What's your basis for that? Ticket prices? You didn't take into consideration all the free tickets they give away to local NYC kids, the fundraising LLM and the show did in Puerto Rico and the fact I can't think of a work that has gotten black and kids more engaged into the theater than this show. Think about all the black and brown kids who have now seen this first theater musical production because now its available on Disney+. I think about how much I love showing to my kids the relationship between a musical they love and Mobb Deep and Biggie and other hip-hop references in the show. I love showing that this huge theater successs that all their little white classmates love originals from black music made by black kids.

And I could discuss the merits of anything I just said with someone who has seen the show or knows the history of the production but it would be a waste to engage in it with someone who hasn't seen it and is dismissive about it from the start. Why waste the time?



>when it was assumed that a Black cast couldn't possibly
>generate the success it did...

>lightning struck. its a momentously historical achievement

if "lightning struck" means rich white people love it and that's your measuring stick for success, okay


>again, YOU don't need to understand.

>But all the Black actors, stagehands, stage managers,
>musicians etc that saw doors open for them on Broadway that
>were closed and nailed shut totally understand. and that's
>what matters to me

I understand people having creative dreams, but is a big opportunity really worth the magical negro experience




>I've quit Netflix shows that werent holding my interest, I
>can tell if I like a writer's style within a few pages of a
>book, new artists get a few songs for me to determine if I
>want to keep listening to an album
>
>if Hamilton doesnt do it for me, Im not required to experience
>it all to confirm my initial impression
>
>our time on this planet is finite with an infinite number of
>ways to spend it. if I sat through everything I wasnt
>enjoying, there wouldnt be as much time for the things that
>exhilarate me


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

>But you ventured WAAAAY beyond that opining "it uses black
>culture without having a black audience in mind."

>What's your basis for that? Ticket prices?

no.

- look around online, the average person praising Hamilton to the heavens has no prior respect or appreciation for Hip-Hop, that's why this feels special to them. these people had no incentive to care about black rap narratives for three decades, but it's brilliant when Alexander Hamilton's story is told this way

- My parents took me to see Bring In Da Noise, Bring In Da Funk. Savion Glover broke down black history and trauma, and it made white people in the audience uncomfortable. Hamilton (again, a story that uses black culture) achieves the exact opposite effect. Hip-Hop has transcended scaring white people to become a universal sensation, I just hate that a lot of Hamilton's audience will never go listen to a Biggie, Jay Z, Rakim, Nas or Kendrick song.





You didn't take
>into consideration all the free tickets they give away to
>local NYC kids, the fundraising LLM and the show did in Puerto
>Rico and the fact I can't think of a work that has gotten
>black and kids more engaged into the theater than this show.
>Think about all the black and brown kids who have now seen
>this first theater musical production because now its
>available on Disney+. I think about how much I love showing
>to my kids the relationship between a musical they love and
>Mobb Deep and Biggie and other hip-hop references in the show.
> I love showing that this huge theater successs that all their
>little white classmates love originals from black music made
>by black kids.

you went into a weird zone of caping for the show, my feelings remain what they are



>And I could discuss the merits of anything I just said with
>someone who has seen the show or knows the history of the
>production but it would be a waste to engage in it with
>someone who hasn't seen it and is dismissive about it from the
>start. Why waste the time?

the show and the soundtrack exist on Youtube, I've heard some of both. Im also somewhat of a Hip-Hop connoisseur and I can tell when a form isnt made with me in mind. this applies to Megan The Stallion, Hamilton, Run The Jewels, and Lil Uzi Vert. me not being into something doesnt mean no one else should

Jay Z, Rakim, Nas and Kendrick are white people (ok MAYBE not Rakim). I can also assure you that the biggest audience for Savion Glover's Tony award winning Broadway musical were white people (who you think giving out Tonys?!?!). So the idea that because white people are into is a sign that it's not for black audiences falls apart.


Again, if your point was just it ain't for me, you'd be fine. It's coming up with the 'its not for black people" where you doing too much.


>>But you ventured WAAAAY beyond that opining "it uses black
>>culture without having a black audience in mind."
>
>>What's your basis for that? Ticket prices?
>
>no.
>
>- look around online, the average person praising Hamilton to
>the heavens has no prior respect or appreciation for Hip-Hop,
>that's why this feels special to them. these people had no
>incentive to care about black rap narratives for three
>decades, but it's brilliant when Alexander Hamilton's story is
>told this way
>
>- My parents took me to see Bring In Da Noise, Bring In Da
>Funk. Savion Glover broke down black history and trauma, and
>it made white people in the audience uncomfortable. Hamilton
>(again, a story that uses black culture) achieves the exact
>opposite effect. Hip-Hop has transcended scaring white people
>to become a universal sensation, I just hate that a lot of
>Hamilton's audience will never go listen to a Biggie, Jay Z,
>Rakim, Nas or Kendrick song.
>
>
>
>
>
>You didn't take
>>into consideration all the free tickets they give away to
>>local NYC kids, the fundraising LLM and the show did in
>Puerto
>>Rico and the fact I can't think of a work that has gotten
>>black and kids more engaged into the theater than this show.
>>Think about all the black and brown kids who have now seen
>>this first theater musical production because now its
>>available on Disney+. I think about how much I love showing
>>to my kids the relationship between a musical they love and
>>Mobb Deep and Biggie and other hip-hop references in the
>show.
>> I love showing that this huge theater successs that all
>their
>>little white classmates love originals from black music made
>>by black kids.
>
>you went into a weird zone of caping for the show, my feelings
>remain what they are
>
>
>
>>And I could discuss the merits of anything I just said with
>>someone who has seen the show or knows the history of the
>>production but it would be a waste to engage in it with
>>someone who hasn't seen it and is dismissive about it from
>the
>>start. Why waste the time?
>
>the show and the soundtrack exist on Youtube, I've heard some
>of both. Im also somewhat of a Hip-Hop connoisseur and I can
>tell when a form isnt made with me in mind. this applies to
>Megan The Stallion, Hamilton, Run The Jewels, and Lil Uzi
>Vert. me not being into something doesnt mean no one else
>should
>
>
>
>
>


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

your typical white person who's passionate about Hip-Hop is not the same white person Hamilton exists to please. there's nothing edgy, urban or authentic to Hip-Hop culture about the story, they're just rapping

I also noted that white people were in the audience of Savion Glover's play, my point being it was a celebration of black life


somehow you ended up at me saying Hip-Hop doesnt have white fans and white people dont attend black musicals

also, you created a misquote of me saying Hamilton isnt for black people, I said something to the effect of it wasnt made with us in mind

seen all the way through.

You really should either watch it all the way through and then judge or not judge at all since you haven't seen it all the way through.

And like homeboy you aren't even saying "Oh well ain't for me next move on" you are coming up with all these different thoughts about the intention of the creators and how those that go to see it feel and just...No.

Bad look for you to be this committed to being so wrong about something you haven't even seen all the way.

https://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13391894&mesg_id=13391894&page=#13392694


>You really should either watch it all the way through and then
>judge or not judge at all since you haven't seen it all the
>way through.

point out where I've judged it. dont worry, I'll wait.

judgement is "this sucks", not "it isnt for me"


>And like homeboy you aren't even saying "Oh well ain't for me
>next move on" you are coming up with all these different
>thoughts about the intention of the creators and how those
>that go to see it feel and just...No.

I dont know what you're talking about. I said the intent seems like an earnest way to introduce Hip-Hop to the world. I also said people (outside of OKP) who are ecstatic about it like rapping is a novel concept never had much appreciation for my culture. logical statements.


>Bad look for you to be this committed to being so wrong about
>something you haven't even seen all the way.

the thing is...everything I've said makes sense to anyone not looking to argue over frivolous nonsense. yall seem to be speaking on behalf of your personal enjoyment and turning my words into an attack. I've done no such thing

the distinction between the white people who (i) attended Bring in 'da Noise, Bring in 'da Funk, (ii) are passionate about hip-hop and (iii) love Hamilton.

You got it. I'm done.
**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

>the distinction between the white people who (i) attended
>Bring in 'da Noise, Bring in 'da Funk, (ii) are passionate
>about hip-hop and (iii) love Hamilton.

(i) - went to a show celebrating black history

(ii) - have invested time and energy to learn and appreciate black culture

(iii) - you made a straw man argument attempting to imply I said something about every white person who loves Hamilton. I said white people who act like Hamilton is the pinnacle of creativity fail to realize that rapping (about more than bitches, hoes, guns, cars and 40 ounces) is not a novelty. Kendrick's last album won a Pulitzer Prize, but somehow (to the specific type of Hamilton fan I speak of), this is the most respectable form of rap. They possibly could fall under (i) if they're passionate about theater and in no way shape or form fall under (ii)

you can keep trying to retort me and pretend what Im saying doesnt make sense because I havent seen the play, or you can just be done

and art has no impact on our culture. its just art.

It's fairly well made. It's too long. Most of the songs have the same format which gets pretty played out. None of that can be divorced from it's politics. And it being a fairly well done production doesn't change the fact that it conveniently "forgot" that Thomas Jefferson owned over 300 people. That George Washington owned over 100 people. That Eliza owned 25 people. None of those people matter. None have a voice, role, a thought in this play. Yet the music created by their descendants is used as a vehicle to glorify those who owned their ancestors. Miss me with that.

you saw it, therefore your critiques are valid.

d

when i can watch for 13 minutes and say it's trash

but I can determine "not for me" in 2 minutes

My personal take on it was very quick and strongly negative (just as far as taste is concerned), but far be it from me to say it has no cultural value

We're already dealing with the effects of white america being taught fake history that makes them feel affirmed and vindicated at the expense of bipoc.

We're in a renaissance of amazing tellevision/film coming from a wide range of creators and you want me to sit through rapping slave owners.....because its "Good?" is this whats in your heart in 2020? Some white liberal fluff play?

"but you didnt watch it" i didnt watch 2 girls 1 cup either. that shit gross.

we don't.

you're fine. lol

d

then i was like, hold up bruh...nah. we don't.

end of story

d

dont do me like that.

>We're already dealing with the effects of white america being
>taught fake history that makes them feel affirmed and
>vindicated at the expense of bipoc.


I think the response here goes a great deal toward showing how much people either a) don't understand how important entertainment is in upholding white supremacy or b) just don't care.

How many of us understand that the system of white supremacy is so much deeper than the overt stuff like police killings but the small things that support and normalize the bigger things?

Kinda odd how everyone can see it when it's happy slaves baking a cake for George Washington in a childrens book or calling them "involuntary immigrants" or changing name of the slave trade to the Atlantic Triangular Trade. Maybe if those books were "well done" then people would eat it up. Hell, maybe all white supremacy has to do is be well done for black folks to accept it overall. People will shout you down when you say it, and then turn around and prove you right... then shout you down even more when you point that out LOL. If folks aren't always against white supremacy, then they're not really against it. Gotta wonder if the collective will ever be serious about this issue.

that we dont see how that same entertainment is desensitizing us from the very thing we're trying to escape from. it all aligns eventually.

all this back and forth...I know we bored but damn

Man such a good first act, this thing nose dives in the second act. It just becomes Broadway with a capital B, becomes not cool quick

had a chance to weigh in on the Jefferson/Burr election and chose a known slave owner and sympathizer because "at least he had a plan". Were he in today's time would he not make the same argument FOR Trump vs Biden? Why he get a musical again? Lol

he didnt have to actually be a good man or anything. he was just white, and there.