https://wutangbook.com/2020/04/08/rza-versus-dj-premier-beat-battle-this-saturday/

Get your popcorn ready!

Who y’all got in this one?


Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

Preem just put out a fire Gang Starr album last year. Preem by knockout








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They're both legends but tbf a not small number of RZA's classic beats are damn near canonical with mad crossover appeal

as soon as he drops shimmy shimmy ya or something like that it might be over

and that's not to knock Primo, his shit will knock regardless

but RZA's strength will be in those haymakers recognizable to the mainstream folks i.e. beyond hardcore hip hop heads

it'll be a fun watch either way tho, can't wait

>Preem
>by knockout
>

about as heavy weight a match up as you can get.

whats the criteria for declaring a winner?

who plays the biggest hit?

who makes fun of scotty more?

im gonna score it like a boxing match. song by song, whoever gets more rounds takes it.

Hahahaha… I almost said that to my friends… Stopped just short

but as far and quantity AND quality?

Primo by a country mile.

Listening to this playlist someone put together of RZA & Primo beats and I'm skipping a lot of the Primo songs b/c I don't listen to the artists (namely Jay)...but when CREAM came on or You're All I Need I'm like SHIT

they also crossed over to white people.

Primo makes underground classic and street singles.

but RZA's output stopped in like 2001 for the large part. Primo been making fire this whole time and was making fire the whole time RZA was.

so, it SHOULD be Primo by a landslide is I guess what I should say, but the masses of people are swayed by popularity at the end of the day.

Both have absolute classics and bangers, but Premier just has more of them for a longer period. If you keep the battle to RZA's hot period (pre flood, or through the first round of Wu albums) it would be closer. But Primo has a much deeper bench to pull from

But a battle like, say Ice Cream vs. Come Clean? I'm there for it.

Premo was volume and bangers for days but RZA’s highs are high as fuck.

Start playing those Ghostface, GZA and Purple tapes and it gets real interesting.

exclusively so a lot of Ghost's bangers were products of other beatsmiths. Rae is basically the Purple Tape. GZA is Liquid Swords. RZA didn't produce for the Clan as much as I thought



>Start playing those Ghostface, GZA and Purple tapes and it
>gets real interesting.


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...no disrespect to RZA, he slays 98% of producers all time ..Not Preem tho

play a bunch of obscure shit?? lol

Looking up 4th Disciple's production discog, the best known beat on there might be Judgement Day for Meth:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4th_Disciple

His contributions to OB4CL and WTF are not the most reknowned tracks by any means.

It's quite the reach to assume RZA's dropping any of those tracks before/instead of Can It Be All So Simple, Ice Cream, Incarcerated Scarfaces, It's Yourz, Triumph, etc. Even the *one* ODB track 4th Disciple produced isn't touching the far bigger ones which are arguably among RZA's most well known.

He's fine.

they both have 20 bangers that will match up quite well..

If you had to pick one to be erased from history, which would you pick?

Initially, I'm thinking Primo.

Really depends on what style of mood I'm in that night.

I’d bet he plays tracks from Wu-affiliates...that he didn’t actually produce

Shouts to 4th disciple

LOL, if ends up playing dilla beats off of fishscale

Premo has the upper hand, IMO, regardless of preference
Been in the game longer...
Didn’t start an acting career
and he’s actually a DJ

It’ll be entertaining

But I expect Premo to shine.

4th disciple
true master
Mathematics

4th was just the 1st name that popped in my head because I remember he did b.i.b.l.e.

It’s actually where I started to lose interest in Wu

They had so many spinoffs and affiliates...it started to water down the brand IMO

Sunz of man
Killer Army
etc...

but that doesn't change the fact that the production RZA's most known for is mostly prior to and/or outside of the work you're talking about.

Nobody thinks RZA and lists any of that Killarmy or Sunz of Man stuff in their top 5, is my point I guess. I'd be shocked if he relied on it to go up against Primo of all people. lol

edit: also, Scott Storch just had a whole ass battle against Mannie Fresh and everyone knows he mostly co-produces. So how fair is it to disqualify RZA based on later co-productions, co-productions that have little bearing on his biggest tracks


>4th disciple
>true master
>Mathematics
>
>4th was just the 1st name that popped in my head because I
>remember he did b.i.b.l.e.
>
>It’s actually where I started to lose interest in Wu
>
>They had so many spinoffs and affiliates...it started to water
>down the brand IMO
>
>Sunz of man
>Killer Army
>etc...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RZA_production_discography

Prem ain’t anybody

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DJ_Premier_production_discography

94’...wtf

Somewhere in the time of Bobby Digi to Ghost Dog...RZA wasn’t on that level

...all I’m saying...

Premo still putting out bangers with Royce and the gstarr album just dropped

I think that will be the difference
The depth of Premo’s catalog

say the crossover appeal of of RZA's bigger tracks will be "his" edge.

RZA def had his point where he fell off, and of course Primo's catalogue is insane, but Primo's one weakness is his most historic beats are best known among hip hop heads not necessarily a mainstream/ig live audience.

Like NY State of Mind, Mass Appeal, etc.. without doubt timeless tracks that are among the best in hip hop history. But not necessarily recognizable to the rando checkins from the general public on these ig live battles. But shit like Shimmy Shimmy Ya? Can It Be All So Simple? C.R.E.A.M? Bring Da Pain? These are well known beats/samples far beyond hip hop circles.

Primo might be able to tap into a little mainstream X-ennial nostalgia with that Craig David remix he did lol, but for the most part okp is like his main demo


>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RZA_production_discography
>
>Prem ain’t anybody
>
>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DJ_Premier_production_discography
>
>94’...wtf
>
>Somewhere in the time of Bobby Digi to Ghost Dog...RZA
>wasn’t on that level
>
>...all I’m saying...
>
>Premo still putting out bangers with Royce and the gstarr
>album just dropped
>
>I think that will be the difference
>The depth of Premo’s catalog
>
>

I heard one of these livestream DJ cats had the artists in the feed performing some of the songs

That would be insane if they could pull it off

I’m sure Meth and Nas are available

>
>say the crossover appeal of of RZA's bigger tracks will be
>"his" edge.
>
>RZA def had his point where he fell off, and of course Primo's
>catalogue is insane, but Primo's one weakness is his most
>historic beats are best known among hip hop heads not
>necessarily a mainstream/ig live audience.
>
>Like NY State of Mind, Mass Appeal, etc.. without doubt
>timeless tracks that are among the best in hip hop history.
>But not necessarily recognizable to the rando checkins from
>the general public on these ig live battles. But shit like
>Shimmy Shimmy Ya? Can It Be All So Simple? C.R.E.A.M? Bring Da
>Pain? These are well known beats/samples far beyond hip hop
>circles.
>
>Primo might be able to tap into a little mainstream X-ennial
>nostalgia with that Craig David remix he did lol, but for the
>most part okp is like his main demo
>
>
>>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RZA_production_discography
>>
>>Prem ain’t anybody
>>
>>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DJ_Premier_production_discography
>>
>>94’...wtf
>>
>>Somewhere in the time of Bobby Digi to Ghost Dog...RZA
>>wasn’t on that level
>>
>>...all I’m saying...
>>
>>Premo still putting out bangers with Royce and the gstarr
>>album just dropped
>>
>>I think that will be the difference
>>The depth of Premo’s catalog
>>
>>
>

>Nobody thinks RZA and lists any of that Killarmy or Sunz of
>Man stuff in their top 5, is my point I guess. I'd be shocked
>if he relied on it to go up against Primo of all people. lol

>It’s actually where I started to lose interest in Wu
>
>They had so many spinoffs and affiliates...it started to water
>down the brand IMO
>
>Sunz of man
>Killer Army
>etc...

I too lost interest in trying to keep up with all the output. So I'mw with you there.

But RZA has enough great stuff of his own that he wouldn't need to do this.

>I’d bet he plays tracks from Wu-affiliates...that he
>didn’t actually produce
>
>Shouts to 4th disciple
>
>LOL, if ends up playing dilla beats off of fishscale

Like wtf, really. Why.

If they’re going track for track

RZA ain’t got much post 2000

I could see him just cuing up some Wu album cut...but it was produced by someone else

He didn't produce Brooklyn Zoo, Tru Master did

Equally classic and got the job done just the same "keeping it in Brooklyn" which was a theme of that round.

..RZA is VERY methodical and I GUARANTEE that he's gonna play some heat that we have never heard.

>..RZA is VERY methodical and I GUARANTEE that he's gonna play
>some heat that we have never heard.

People in this post ain’t too bright

... "new Wu Children shittttttttt"

thus, not gonna help his case much.

was gonna crown Primo the presumptive winner on *okp* lol

I'd prob still give the edge to Primo just based on quality, regardless of what the general consensus is on who won.

But I agree, RZA will def be extremely competitive. And more of his biggest beats have crossed over, like been sampled to create additional chart topping singles crossed over. It's not gonna be some bloodbath.

I for one just plan to enjoy the show lol





>..RZA is VERY methodical and I GUARANTEE that he's gonna play
>some heat

i love both.

but Primo just got more shit. RZA got bigger songs (because of whitey).

unless they limit the time frame, Primo wins by output alone.

has nothing to do with Okayplayer.com.

audience lol


I love both too! Some Primo beats are my most fave ever. But I would bet there's a deeper appreciation for Primo's catalogue among okps than the general public.

Or even among regular schmegular hip hop fans. I mean there's an upped post on the GD front page *right now* ranking De La albums vs. ATCQ albums man lol. That's normal conversation only among the deepest of hip hop heads.



>i love both.
>
>but Primo just got more shit. RZA got bigger songs (because of
>whitey).
>
>unless they limit the time frame, Primo wins by output alone.
>
>
>has nothing to do with Okayplayer.com.

>Or even among regular schmegular hip hop fans. I mean there's
>an upped post on the GD front page *right now* ranking De La
>albums vs. ATCQ albums man lol. That's normal conversation
>only among the deepest of hip hop heads.
>

lol is rza's audience really much different than primos?? this is definitely not cash money vs 2000s glitz club anthems

rza vs primo is straight up for hiphop heads



all im hoping for is some decent sound quality









and some prince rakeem and limp bizkit lol

Lol

edit: and OMG I hear you on the sound quality. I really hope they both take extra pains with that. It'll be especially important for RZA to sound good given the intentional lo-fi flavor in his beats

The masses of people, who usually join, won’t even know half of this stuff to begin with. Anything off the Purple Tape, besides “Ice Cream”, ain’t getting the regular women up out their seats to dance. They might jump up for some ODB but ain’t doing a thing for “Clan In Da Front.”

This joint is essentially for the lovers of hip hop. How many wine gon bounce to “Just To Get a Rep” or “Soliloquoy of Chaos?” They might move a bit to “Royalty” but they ain’t moving nothing when “Above the Clouds” comes on.

I’m just gonna sit back and reminisce because their ain’t a winner outside of the heads who gonna appreciate the shiggidy out of all this great music that we know and love being played.

Otherwise, hopefully they have better sound quality than Jon/T-Pain.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B-z8-u_FRBd/?igshid=1kfblwzgjpb47

Sheer volume won't work.

You need to win more rounds.

Counter a big HIT with one of your own.

This should be dope, no matter who wins.

People acting like Primo can play his entire discography LOL

Gotta bring your best twenty joints. Winner take all.

Would love to see people list their favorite 20 joints by Rza and Primo.

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

Bring the HITS

There’s not one person, old and young that didn’t absolutely love The Format when I put them on.

And this is coming from someone who likes The Come Up more.

The Format is definitely one that can be played tonight especially if RZA plays Whatever Happened by AZ. And I don’t think he should because it’s not one of his known bangers but RZA only has a handful of tracks produced for outside MCs. Tres Leches, Long Kiss Goodnight and Whatever Happened are probably the 3 he has for well known MCs.

So if RZA pulls out Whatever Happened, Preem can send back The Format and wrap that round up!

This shit is for the heads.

Not you “hits” mafuckas

You'd have to have not watched any of the ig battles so far to not see what she's talking about.

I think it was the Lil Jon v. T-Pain battle that set a new record? Over a quarter of a million accounts were tuned in/commenting.

Pair that with the increasing promotion happening across platforms, the celebs and corporate accounts checking in, etc... the audiences for these are definitely not just hip hop heads. (And not checking for AZ doesn't disqualify someone from being a head anyway lol)

The hits thing matters. It's one of the reasons ppl were calling the Scott Storch v. Mannie Fresh battle for Storch. It's one of the reasons the Lil Jon v. T-Pain battle was so well attended.

Of course heads are gonna have diff expectations and takeaways for RZA v. Primo, but TONS of people watching will only know the bigger/crossover joints and their commentary is gonna show up in feeds too. That's just fact.

edit: I do think The Format > Whatever Happened tho, lol. I vaguely remembered The Format beat being good but hadn't heard Whatever Happened before

>This shit is for the heads.
>
>Not you “hits” mafuckas

You can’t say “just play the hits” when it comes to these 2.

Everybody had a good time so idk why yall being so elitist.

can recognize/react/enjoy a given track.

Like I could see how some might interpret "hits" (or even the term I've been using a lot in the post "crossover") to mean something along the lines of "approved by white audiences".. but I personally just mean songs with the biggest and/or most diverse fan base (which may be different than what Chernic means, even tho I agree with what she's been saying on this).

For example, during the battle - I think after RZA dropped Shimmy Shimmy Ya - Prem talked about how crazy the *global* response is to that track when playing shows overseas. He described playing massive festivals/venues, perhaps in countries that aren't even english-speaking, and that song comes on and they go NUTS rapping along word-for-word.

*That's* the sort of thing I was thinking about when I was comparing big tracks. Like, I said in a different reply that I called All I Need v. 10 Crack Commandments a draw but might've given it to RZA had it been Shimmy Shimmy Ya. Imho, All I Need and 10 Crack are both iconic huge tracks (and All I Need is grammy-award winning) but Shimmy Shimmy Ya, by Prem's own admission, gets entire stadiums of fans in Europe or Asia rapping along. That's like a cult following stronger by an order of magnitude lol. I'm not sure All I Need has that kind of juice. And I'm sure multiple Biggie tracks have it (Juicy? Hypnotize?) but maybe not 10 Crack.

edit: so basically, All I Need v. 10 Crack might be a draw, Shimmy Ya v. 10 Crack might go to Shimmy, but Shimmy Ya v. Juicy is going to Juicy. And if it was a Wu v. Biggie battle, I think it'd be criminal to exclude ANY of those tracks lol

but so were some of the lesser cuts like liquid swords or Just to Get a Rep.

and they also sparked conversation and admiration.

I think with these 2 producers you can play more than the hits and still have a good battle because we adore their hits and their near misses

Preme has longevity, RZA had impact. I think they were evenly matched.

so we have no idea how this plays out.

(c) i imagine quite a few Gen X'ers right now

>(c) i imagine quite a few Gen X'ers right now

What’s that mean? IG is supposed to be something new?

to me it would be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MZTgR_e1vA

there's a bit of a delay tho

friend let me borrow their login for a couple of hours

...doubt it though

“Yo...here’s Deck’s lost album from early 96 bitches”

And proceeds to play a complete album on par with Cuban Linx and Liquid Swords.

^ top comment in the thread on r/hiphophheads

Wish RZA's sound was better but despite that this is fun as fuck. Nostalgia all over the place.

So did RZA. But we all won.

Felt like they both missed so many can't-misses but that just speaks to how prolific they both are in terms of classic beats. I hope this keeps going.

wish RZA’s sound was better.

... I stopped even considering this a "battle". I was just happy to see two of the best to EVER do it play their classics back to back to back and chop it up, tell some stories, etc.

That was great.

I was pacing around my living room holding an imaginary mic and putting on my own concert.

That was a FAST 3 hours.

I haven’t said that in over a month, lol.

And thought that was pretty on point haha.


>I was pacing around my living room holding an imaginary mic
>and putting on my own concert.
>
>That was a FAST 3 hours.
>
>I haven’t said that in over a month, lol.

I counted at least 7 rounds as ties (first 5 in regulation and 2 in "overtime" after round 20).

If you count just the first 20 rounds, I give it to Primo 9-6-5.

Edit: Rza came strong in overtime though, I gave him four rounds, called 2 a tie and gave Primo two.

Of the unreleased joints, Primo killed all three of RZA's with one Scarface.

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

Rza-Imma play something that speaks to everything in the world right now..

Primo-"drops I Gave You Power"




************************************

Fuck aliens

-Warriorpoet415

#2dopebrothersandastackofwax

https://www.instagram.com/bobgeorge87

https://www.instagram.com/thirtythree.three/

My scorecard for those who care:

Round 1

Liquid Swords versus A Mllion

Rza 1-0 (this is a tough one and I almost called it a tie)

Round 2

Bring Da Pain versus an MOP song I did not immediately recall the title of

Rza 2-0

Round 3

Wu posse cut I did not write title for v Mathematics

Primo (Rza still up 2-1)

Round 4

Wu Gambinos v The Enemy

TIE (2-1-1 Rza up)

Round 5

Run v MCs Act Like They Don't Know

Rza (3-1-1)

Round 6

Shame On A... v. Real Hip-Hop

Primo (3-2-1 Rza up)

Round 7

Protect Ya Neck v Suspended In Time

TIE (3-2-2 Rza up)

Round 8

Cold World v Devil's Pie

Primo (3-3-2)

Round 9

Method Man v just To get A Rep

Rza (4-3-2 Rza up again)

Round 10

Motherless Child v D'Evils

Rza (I see how someone else could call this primo tho) (5-3-2 Rza up)

Round 11

Verbal Intercourse v Nas Is Like

Rza (6-3-2 Rza up....also my fav Nas verse ever is on VI so...)

Round 12

buck 50 v The Question Remainz

Primo (body blow... 6-4-2 Rza up)

Round 13

Ice Cream v unbelievable

TIE (6-4-3 Rza up)

Round 14

Brooklyn Zoo v Come Clean

TIE (6-4-4 Rza up)

Round 15

Shimmy Shimmy Ya v Kick In The Door

Primo (6-5-4 Rza up, by a thread)

Round 16

Long Kiss Goodnight v. Above the Clouds

Primo (6-6-4 tied up!)

Round 17

Assassination Day v NY State of Mind

Primo (6-7-4 Primo up)

Round 18

Crimonology v Dwyck

TIE (6-7-5 Primo up)

Round 19

Incarcerated Scarface's v Boom

Primo (6-8-5 Primo up)

Round 20

You're All I Need v ten Crack Commandments

Primo (6-9-5 primo up)

END OF REGULATION (Primo wins, but what about overtime, son????)

OVERTIME

Round 21

CREAM v Mass Appeal

Rza (7-9-5 or 1-0 overtime)

Round 22

Wu tang Clan Aint Nuthin To F Wit v Return of the Crooklyn Dodgers

Rza (8-9-5 or 2-0 overtime)

Round 23

Dark Fantasy v Classic

Rza (9-9-5 or 3-0 overtime big comeback after regulation!!!)

Round 24

Triumph v Represent

TIE

9-9-6 or 3-0-1 overtime

Round 25

Tanasia v Friend or Foe

Primo (9-10-6 or 3-1-1 overtime)

Round 26

It's Yours v So Ghetto

TIE (9-10-7 or 3-1-2 overtime)

Round 27

Gravel Pit v some Christina Aguilera song

Rza (10-10-7 or 4-1-2 overtime)

Better Tomorrow (second version/title track) v. I gave You Power

Primo (10-11-7 or 4-2-2 overtime)

Altogether, Primo with the squeaker. Just in overtime, Rza. Hip-hop culture is the real winner tho



Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

I probably would have had rza by a hair, just because I think I prefer RZA’s top 25 beats to Primo’s. No doubt Primo wins on sheer total number of bangers. He could have kept going until this morning.

doing one. But whatever it made it more fun to me. Plus I saw other folks posting their final scores all over the place and I know Swizz and Timbo score these too.

I know what you mean about not catching all the songs, there were a number I didn't know/remember. Like the Group Home stuff?? I was like huh lol. There's playlists being posted all over now tho so easy to doublecheck/correct (although make sure they're right, I noticed Tidal's had Glaciers of Ice in theirs for some reason and I'm pretty sure RZA didn't play it).

I like how you organized according to regulation and OT haha I'm stealing that. My notes:


1. RZA-Liquid Swords/GZA v. PRM-A Million and One Questions/Jay-Z
PRM

2. RZA-Bring The Pain/Method Man v. PRM-Breakin the rules/MOP
RZA

3. RZA-Maria/Wu Tang v. PRM-Mathematics/Mos Def
PRM

4. RZA-Wu-Gambinos/Raekwon et al v. PRM-Da Enemy/Big L et al
PRM

5. RZA-Run/Ghostface Killah ft Jadakiss v. PRM-MCs Act Like They Don't Know/KRS-One
RZA

6. RZA-Shame on a Nigga/Wu Tang Clan v. PRM-Real Hip Hop/Das Efx
PRM

7. RZA-Protect Ya Neck/Wu Tang Clan v. PRM-Livin Proof/Group Home
RZA

8. RZA-Cold World/GZA v. PRM-Devil's Pie/D'Angelo
PRM

9. RZA-Method Man/Wu Tang Clan v. PRM-Just To Get A Rep/Gang Starr
RZA

10. RZA-Motherless Child/Ghostface Killah ft Raekwon v. PRM-D'Evils/Jay-Z
PRM


HALFTIME: RZA 4 | PRM 6 | TIES 0


11. RZA-Verbal Intercourse/Raekwon ft Nas v. PRM-Nas is Like/Nas
PRM

12. RZA-Buck 50/Ghostface Killah et al v. PRM-The ? Remainz/Gang Starr
RZA

13. RZA-Ice Cream/Raekwon ft. Meth et al v. PRM-Unbelievable/Biggie
RZA

14. RZA-Brooklyn Zoo/ODB v. PRM-Come Clean/Jeru
PRM* (by DEFAULT lol)

15. RZA-Shimmy Shimmy Ya/ODB v. PRM-Kick In The Door/Biggie
RZA (not close)

16. RZA-Long Kiss Goodnight/Biggie v. PRM-Above The Clouds/Gang Starr ft Inspectah Deck
PRM (not close)

17. RZA-Assassin'tn Day/Inspectah Deck v. PRM-NY State Of Mind/Nas
PRM (not close)

18. RZA-Criminology/Raekwon v. PRM-DWYCK/Gang Starr ft Nice & Smooth
RZA (close af! I actually prefer DWYCK but concluded it's mostly the MCs that carry it. The beat really is kinda generic)

19. RZA-Incarcerated Scarfaces/Raekwon v. PRM-Boom/Royce Da 5'9
RZA

20. RZA-All I Need/Method Man ft Mary J Blige v. PRM-10 Crack Commandments/Biggie
draw (I expected the final matchup to be Shimmy Ya v. 10 Crack, and I might have given it to RZA in that case bc I think Shimmy Ya might be an even stronger crossover track than All I Need)


END OF REGULATION: RZA 9 | PRM 10 | TIES 1


OT-21. RZA-C.R.E.A.M./Wu Tang Clan v. PRM-Mass Appeal/Gang Starr
draw

OT-22. RZA-Wu Tang Clan Aint Nuthin To Fuck Wit/Wu Tang Clan v. PRM-Crooklyn/Crooklyn Dodgers
draw (leaning PRM)

OT-23. RZA-Dark Fantasy/Kanye v. PRM- Classic/Kanye,KRS One,Nas, Rakim
RZA (I completely forgot about RZAs MBDTF stuff! I loved that he dropped this but then I was like wtf did he only play it in OT lol)

OT-24. RZA-Triumph/Wu-Tang v. PRM- Represent-Nas
draw (leaning RZA)

OT-25. RZA-Tanasia/Nas v. PRM-Friend or Foe/Jay-Z
PRM

OT-26. RZA-Its Yourz/Wu Tang v. PRM-So Ghetto/Jay-Z
RZA (those chords are killer, sorry lol)

OT-27. RZA-Gravel Pit/Wu Tang v. PRM-Aint No Other Man/Christina Aguilera
PRM (I was hoping he'd play this! Just to show off his range)

OT-28. RZA-A Better Tomorrow/Wu Tang Clan v. PRM-I Gave You Power/Nas
RZA (It's a prettier beat)


OT: RZA 3 | PRM 2 | TIES 3


===================
FINAL SCORE 12-12-4
===================

^I'm totally at peace with arriving here lol







>My scorecard for those who care:
>
>Round 1
>
>Liquid Swords versus A Mllion
>
>Rza 1-0 (this is a tough one and I almost called it a tie)
>
>Round 2
>
>Bring Da Pain versus an MOP song I did not immediately recall
>the title of
>
>Rza 2-0
>
>Round 3
>
>Wu posse cut I did not write title for v Mathematics
>
>Primo (Rza still up 2-1)
>
>Round 4
>
>Wu Gambinos v The Enemy
>
>TIE (2-1-1 Rza up)
>
>Round 5
>
>Run v MCs Act Like They Don't Know
>
>Rza (3-1-1) >tho]
>
>Round 6
>
>Shame On A... v. Real Hip-Hop
>
>Primo (3-2-1 Rza up)
>
>Round 7
>
>Protect Ya Neck v Suspended In Time
>
>TIE (3-2-2 Rza up)
>
>Round 8
>
>Cold World v Devil's Pie
>
>Primo (3-3-2)
>
>Round 9
>
>Method Man v just To get A Rep
>
>Rza (4-3-2 Rza up again)
>
>Round 10
>
>Motherless Child v D'Evils
>
>Rza (I see how someone else could call this primo tho) (5-3-2
>Rza up)
>
>Round 11
>
>Verbal Intercourse v Nas Is Like
>
>Rza (6-3-2 Rza up....also my fav Nas verse ever is on VI
>so...)
>
>Round 12
>
>buck 50 v The Question Remainz
>
>Primo (body blow... 6-4-2 Rza up)
>
>Round 13
>
>Ice Cream v unbelievable
>
>TIE (6-4-3 Rza up)
>
>Round 14
>
>Brooklyn Zoo v Come Clean
>
>TIE (6-4-4 Rza up)
>
>Round 15
>
>Shimmy Shimmy Ya v Kick In The Door
>
>Primo (6-5-4 Rza up, by a thread)
>
>Round 16
>
>Long Kiss Goodnight v. Above the Clouds
>
>Primo (6-6-4 tied up!)
>
>Round 17
>
>Assassination Day v NY State of Mind
>
>Primo (6-7-4 Primo up)
>
>Round 18
>
>Crimonology v Dwyck
>
>TIE (6-7-5 Primo up)
>
>Round 19
>
>Incarcerated Scarface's v Boom
>
>Primo (6-8-5 Primo up)
>
>Round 20
>
>You're All I Need v ten Crack Commandments
>
>Primo (6-9-5 primo up)
>
>END OF REGULATION (Primo wins, but what about overtime,
>son????)
>
>OVERTIME
>
>Round 21
>
>CREAM v Mass Appeal
>
>Rza (7-9-5 or 1-0 overtime)
>
>Round 22
>
>Wu tang Clan Aint Nuthin To F Wit v Return of the Crooklyn
>Dodgers
>
>Rza (8-9-5 or 2-0 overtime)
>
>Round 23
>
>Dark Fantasy v Classic
>
>Rza (9-9-5 or 3-0 overtime big comeback after regulation!!!)
>
>Round 24
>
>Triumph v Represent
>
>TIE
>
>9-9-6 or 3-0-1 overtime
>
>Round 25
>
>Tanasia v Friend or Foe
>
>Primo (9-10-6 or 3-1-1 overtime)
>
>Round 26
>
>It's Yours v So Ghetto
>
>TIE (9-10-7 or 3-1-2 overtime)
>
>Round 27
>
>Gravel Pit v some Christina Aguilera song
>
>Rza (10-10-7 or 4-1-2 overtime)
>
>Better Tomorrow (second version/title track) v. I gave You
>Power
>
>Primo (10-11-7 or 4-2-2 overtime)
>
>Altogether, Primo with the squeaker. Just in overtime, Rza.
>Hip-hop culture is the real winner tho
>
>
>
>Peace,
>
>Spirit (Alan)
>http://wutangbook.com

that thing was perfect timing.

Almost felt like I was at a real show.

I’m a Premier fanboy but I can’t front, RZA absolutely held his own. I was sleeping. That one Kanye joint? Didn’t know that was RZA. Quest was all “IF YOU HAD READ THE LINER NOTES, YOU WOULD KNOW THIS IS CLEARLY RZA”.

Also just seeing all the heads in the comments. All of hip hop was in there. It was dope.

>Almost felt like I was at a real show.
>
>I’m a Premier fanboy but I can’t front, RZA absolutely
>held his own. I was sleeping. That one Kanye joint? Didn’t
>know that was RZA. Quest was all “IF YOU HAD READ THE LINER
>NOTES, YOU WOULD KNOW THIS IS CLEARLY RZA”.
>
>Also just seeing all the heads in the comments. All of hip hop
>was in there. It was dope.

No diss, but it was always obvious that Kanye higher joint was RZA

That was about the time I checked out of Kanye. That beat is fire though.

said. Shawn Pen (Little Shawn) made close to the exact same comment in response to French at roughly the same time.

This one fell right in line with all the others that have happened with the exception of the SS vs MF battle. They’ve all been extremely close, provided excellent entertainment, been great a distraction, and just dope.

MF ain’t have no business being paired with SS. Neither of them could have held their own in a battle of heavyweights like this one but, at least, Scott’s versatility would have won him some points. MF beats made me think of the days around here when cats would crush Swizz and all of his Casio sounding stuff.

>I’m a Premier fanboy but I can’t front, RZA absolutely
>held his own. I was sleeping. That one Kanye joint? Didn’t
>know that was RZA. Quest was all “IF YOU HAD READ THE LINER
>NOTES, YOU WOULD KNOW THIS IS CLEARLY RZA”.

LOL I actually *did* read the liner notes, and knew in the moment that it was released that it was a RZA beat, but I'd forgotten. Glad he reminded me. Cuz I'd been giving Kanye credit for a couple years now.

This battle served as a nice retrospective and testament.

It is impossible to beat Primo’s accomplishments on Nas, Biggie and Jay-Z’s albums. He is a part of history for those alone.

That said, I was even surprised at how RZAs catalog of classics is so deep. All Wu-Tang members should be thanking their maker for the embarrassment of riches and “first pick” at these works of art.

>https://wutangbook.com/2020/04/08/rza-versus-dj-premier-beat-battle-this-saturday/
>
>Get your popcorn ready!
>
>Who y’all got in this one?
>
>
>Peace,
>
>Spirit (Alan)
>http://wutangbook.com

>That said, I was even surprised at how RZAs catalog of
>classics is so deep. All Wu-Tang members should be thanking
>their maker for the embarrassment of riches and “first
>pick” at these works of art.

... for sticking to what he said he'd do for the group/his people and not selling out and giving those beats away for what I'm sure would've been a hefty sum of $$$ had some outside-of-Wu artists got their hands on one of his beat tapes at that time.

What a night. It was like a live podcast taping or something with both of their stories/anecdotes. They both truly have love for each other and for hip hop.

Also, when RZA messed up playing Brooklyn Zoo which he didn't produce (I actually think he might have just played it by accident i.e. fucked up trying to cue up Shimmy Ya, which he played right after)

He was getting LIT UP. Just Blaze was like "flag on the play"

haha


>What a night. It was like a live podcast taping or something
>with both of their stories/anecdotes. They both truly have
>love for each other and for hip hop.

Totally! Low ley educational too.

He called it “Austin Powers music” or something, lmao.

Ghost protested him playing that one too.

>“Austin Powers music”
>

>Ghost protested him playing that one too.

Not to mention after like 8 rounds Thought said RZA won every round.

That shit had me scratching my head especially when round 3 was Maria vs Mathematics.

But I guess that’s why he’s doing EPs with 9th Wonder and never had a Preemo track...

*shrug* just sayin

.. or something like that.


>What a night. It was like a live podcast taping or something
>with both of their stories/anecdotes. They both truly have
>love for each other and for hip hop.

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

RZA didn’t necessarily play all his best beats, and he took credit for a couple tracks that weren’t his. I’m not mad. He used the opportunity to remind people of the power of the Wu. As the disrespectful comments showed throughout the week, a lot of you backpack dad rappers had clearly forgotten. Now you remember.

Just as amazing is that against a top...two? Three? Certainly 5...group in history, Preemo held his own. The emcees were showcased less, and Preem just focused on what he thought were his best beats. It was one man’s catalog against the entirety of witty unpredictable live shit, and Premier stood strong.

even.

No Full Clip, The Militia, You Know My Steez, etc. He didn't even drop Mass Appeal until OT! I was confused at first like, doesn't he want to win?? lol.

I was also surprised he didn't play 6th Sense.

RZA had a few notable omissions as well, but (thankfully) wasn't as restrained with his Wu catalogue as Primo was with his Gang Starr.

They both demonstrated their range well tho, which I guess is the bright side

I knew Premier would go with the hits from Jay, Nas and Biggie

but he had a lot of Gangstarr and Jeru shit he didn’t drop.

their ranges to the extent that they "could" lol

Primo's range is far broader than RZAs, which was his advantage. But as you said elsewhere in the post, RZAs highs are high af lol

RZA dropping the MBDTF and WTT tracks towards the end were a pleasant surprise tho. I'd totally forgotten about those. They made him sound a bit more current and offered some refreshing non-Wu elements lol

Is a broader range, apparently.

Edit: both these dudes all time top ten, but we don’t have to lie. Neither is particularly diverse in their style.

with a broader array of artists outside of Gang Starr, in contrast to RZA's volume of work outside of Wu/Wu-affiliates. This is pretty much indisputable, no?? I didn't think I was saying anything controversial or untrue.

I acknowledge that RZA has more crossover hits tho. Also, I think it's cool the way he does a lot more film scoring/diff kinds of projects besides just hip hop albums.

edit: oops - and yes I agree, both are legends/GOAT status

>Is a broader range, apparently.
>
>Edit: both these dudes all time top ten, but we don’t have
>to lie. Neither is particularly diverse in their style.

That’s why he didn’t play Mass Appeal

performance compared to RZA's actually, now that you allude to it. He seemed more strategic and better prepared. Plus the way he was doing all the shoutouts and keeping ppl engaged while we waited on RZA was <3. He was the best host so far in these battles by a mile. What a genuinely nice dude.

Like I love RZA lol I do... but first he was mad late lol, then the sound/technical issues, then he had to ask Primo what round they were even at a couple times (lol? like damn you're competing at least keep up) lol..

I mean both of them were awesome sports/kept it light + fun, but ya Primo had that slight edge where he seemed to have at least thought about which of his tracks would be good responses to certain RZA tracks (the Kanye round comes to mind too) whereas RZA was kinda just vibin. lol


>That’s why he didn’t play Mass Appeal

>RE: Ya you may be right. That's one thing I really liked about Primo's
>performance compared to RZA's actually, now that you allude to
>it. He seemed more strategic and better prepared. Plus the way
>he was doing all the shoutouts and keeping ppl engaged while
>we waited on RZA was <3. He was the best host so far in these
>battles by a mile. What a genuinely nice dude.

2020 is completely and utterly with the shits but the battles and DJ sets have made this shit manageable

>even.
>
>No Full Clip, The Militia, You Know My Steez, etc. He didn't
>even drop Mass Appeal until OT! I was confused at first like,
>doesn't he want to win?? lol.
>
>I was also surprised he didn't play 6th Sense.
>
>RZA had a few notable omissions as well, but (thankfully)
>wasn't as restrained with his Wu catalogue as Primo was with
>his Gang Starr.
>
>They both demonstrated their range well tho, which I guess is
>the bright side
>
>
>
>

Song wise, he would have gotten run out the building if he tried to stick with just Guru.

even tho it is... lol.

Cause I was never a higher fan of the Triumph beat but people love the song. I think it’s more so the first verse being fire but that beat was never a “ohhhh shit”

>Song wise, he would have gotten run out the building if he
>tried to stick with just Guru.

The beats for Gang Starr were top of the line. Much better than he was doing for other artists outside of the Foundation.

I don't know what to name it though.

all month. It felt like I was actually there chillin' wit all da headz. Didn't matter who was winning, they both brought fire. And the comments section was lit. Loved the hip hop and celebrity cameos and comments.
Need a muscle relaxer for all the head nodding I was doing.
Was smiling from ear to ear the whole night. Can't wait for other line-ups.

One comment I saw was simply "my neck is fractured." which I thought summed the night up pretty well lol.


>all month. It felt like I was actually there chillin' wit all
>da headz. Didn't matter who was winning, they both brought
>fire. And the comments section was lit. Loved the hip hop and
>celebrity cameos and comments.
>Need a muscle relaxer for all the head nodding I was doing.
>Was smiling from ear to ear the whole night. Can't wait for
>other line-ups.

*************************************

Fuck aliens

-Warriorpoet415

#2dopebrothersandastackofwax

https://www.instagram.com/bobgeorge87

https://www.instagram.com/thirtythree.three/

That's just through the first 20 tracks. After that they were sorta fuckin' around.

RZA had far more heat than people thought.

IMHO, no matter who you thought won, I think if you have your fave at a more than 3 margin, you might be trippin'.

But then again it was all in fun. The real winners were us and the culture.


______________________________________________________________________________

"To Each His Reach"

but.....

Fuck aliens.

Pun gave him a sack of money for that joint, and it BANGS

I too would be interested in knowing what other people would use for their 20 beats. I know for sure there are a few Premier could have swapped out

That had to get played

I would’ve also gone with Downtown Swinga ‘96 for MOP

I would’ve played OCs My World

At least one if not 2 Rakim joints. I would’ve ended with Waitin’ For The World To End

I would’ve gone with Rappaz R N Danjer for KRS

I would also done The Format from AZ

And as a sleeper I would’ve done The Actual by All City

I agree that RZA should’ve done Tres Leches.

A few others I would’ve swapped out but his set pretty much is what it is.

Definitely would not have played Maria from Forever...maybe For Heaven’s Sake

I think that Preem should’ve went to that Gang Starr catalogue a bit more. I wished he would’ve played DJ Premier in Deep Concentration with live scratching. Also I wish he would’ve broke out that Breakfast @ Denny’s (Uptown Version).

As for RZA, unreleased cuts would’ve gone better for from.

but would it have been better served for either Preem or RZA had to have made beats on the spot? Also another option who be for them to have made 5 new beats for the battle.

I do agree though that they could’ve organized it a bit better.

15 bangers
5 unreleased joints
1 new instrumental (like how we used to do the beat offs where you give them the same sample source)

That would’ve been dope

>I do agree though that they could’ve organized it a bit
>better.
>
>15 bangers
>5 unreleased joints
>1 new instrumental (like how we used to do the beat offs where
>you give them the same sample source)
>
>That would’ve been dope
>

but it’s definitely a tougher comp if you have these dj’s/producers come with new material for at least half of the beats that were played. If you’ve heard a majority of the beats already it doesn’t make it much of a battle (to me at least). You just have two cats having fun, which is cool because that night was a blast. Especially after hearing that Tip tribute by Quest earlier in the day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcM3MKN92O0

I think they fixed the sound a bit (well, as much as it could be),
and one saintly commenter (verce 919) timestamped every single track as well (up to and including OT and all the bonus tracks at the end except New Day)

First round is missing tho. But overall the best sound quality I've seen so far and it's full rather than broken into parts.

Swizz v. Timbaland (edited down)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-H_l_Mzh3EI


Ne-Yo v. Johnta Austin (lol, worth watching for Johnta's faces alone haha)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJPMKL_qTV0


Scott Storch v. Mannie Fresh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wN1dGTHR-wo


T-Pain v. Lil Jon (timestamps for every song in the comments)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6i18yHuizwc



and this old Hot 97 battle between swizz and JB showed up in the recs so linking it too, why not lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaDNDpO7vfg

I'm just so happy for everyone lol this shit is bringing people joy in such bleak times.

Can't wait for Babyface - Teddy Riley on Saturday. And folks gave Teddy a LOT (some deserved) slander, but I'm sure he will be ready for action.

>I'm just so happy for everyone lol this shit is bringing
>people joy in such bleak times.
>
>Can't wait for Babyface - Teddy Riley on Saturday. And folks
>gave Teddy a LOT (some deserved) slander, but I'm sure he will
>be ready for action.

Really? If so, I think they’re not realizing that Teddy’s got Keith Sweat, Heavy D, Today, Moe Dee, B Sure, and his man Bobby Brown. And he’s got the Zan the man, Redhead, Boy George, James Ing, Deja, and his homeboys Guy.

etc.

They're both legends without question, but again... people better not sleep on Teddy lol

Babyface's got sheer volume, but Teddy's range is not to be fucked with.

Like it's insane that he could drop Rumpshaker, multiple MJ tracks, and No Diggity in back-to-back rounds lol

Imagine having that kind of bag to pull from lol?

yikes @ battling him


>
>I think they’re not realizing that Teddy’s
>got Keith Sweat, Heavy D, Today, Moe Dee, B Sure, and his man
>Bobby Brown. And he’s got the Zan the man, Redhead, Boy
>George, James Ing, Deja, and his homeboys Guy.

Which came out in ‘89? Teddy gave a beautiful rundown of his already prolific production catalogue on the song! Classic.

http://youtu.be/qrQT-RVxyS4

Talking about the 'G5' and while he didn't say he wanted to monetize the battle, he wanted to use a platform that he partnered with - which granted, I watched the concert he had on his platform and it definitely didn't have the glitches that early IG live battles had. But still Teddy was acting like an old nigga from Harlem. How you gonna try to put some shit that others created on your platform?

>old nigga from Harlem

lol

Which I guess was expected given the competitors. They were hilarious lol

What I like about the more mainstream and R&B battles is they really get the format. 20 rounds of released tracks only def favors hit-heavy repertoires.

Like most seem to be doing the save your biggest hit for last thing but Johnta, T-Pain, Lil Jon, etc def came out guns blazing with a bring-my-biggest-20 strategy and its played best with the audiences imho. They start dropping heavy hitters right out the gate and just overall come across like their trying to win/entertain.


>I'm just so happy for everyone lol this shit is bringing
>people joy in such bleak times.
>
>Can't wait for Babyface - Teddy Riley on Saturday. And folks
>gave Teddy a LOT (some deserved) slander, but I'm sure he will
>be ready for action.


yes yes and yes! couldn't agree more

especially seeing so many hiphop legends in there commenting.

i dont remember my score and after overtime i stopped counting. didnt help that i think someone messed up the count and had me thinking i missed a round.

i think my score largely resembled the ones posted here. rza got off to a good start winning a few rounds. primo came back then kind of ran away with it. it really seemed he was holding back to try to keep it close. then overtime was a mixed bag. we got some big bangers in overtime but it definitely needed to end a few rounds earlier than it did lol i think represent should had closed it out.

either way it was awesome to see.

ODB and Jay songs hit the most for me. definitely didnt expect the Jay ones to.

If they only could have played strictly Wu-Tang or Gangstarr joints off of their albums.

That first album is pretty much ALL anthems, lol. Gangstarr cant match up with that.

Album for album, I think Gangstarr has the stronger catalogue though.

Those wipe the floor with gang Starr’s entire catalogue, y’all talk like you weren’t there. Gang Starr and Wu were not on the same level.

Gang Starr can’t compete with the fame Wu Tang had obviously but they made better music imo. I’m WTF > 36 Chambers too. As a fan of Dre and Quik, the mixing of that album kills my enjoyment a little. Glad RZA’s sound improved with each release during that time.

So you’re saying 36, Forever and The W wipe the floor with all Gang Starr albums or are you including solo albums too?

The entire wu was “guest” vocalist on 90 percent of all solo tracks. They count for the Wu. If that means you want to throw in albums like Jeru where Primo did all the beats, fine. RZA still wins that. It’s only when you add in primo’s longevity and his one-offs with dudes like Jay Nas and Big that Primo pulls ahead.

So you are telling us these albums mop the floor with the Gang Starr discography...

T2 Judgement Day
Immobiliraty
Beneath The Surface
Golden Arms
Uncontrolled Substance

You are fucking crazy.

The only albums I’m even accepting as being better than Moment of Truth are Liquid Swords and Cuban Linx.

Hard To Earn is also a classic.

Now you want to add in Sun Rises, Wrath and Livin’ Proof?

You are fucking crazy for that statement.

This dude said The W mops the floor with Moment of Truth.

Yo...

I can’t with y’all sometimes on here.

… with the chatter before and after the battle?

Anyone download it before the 24 hrs. was up? The videos on YouTube are all edited.

It would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance!

if it were to happen.

Marley Marl?

Q-tip?

No ID?

Just trying to come up with match ups 'cause I'm still buzzing from Primo/Rza.

Dr. Dre can go against no one. Too many hits in the bag. I think the closest one to come near him is Pharrell.

Kanye vs. Just Blaze would be fun.

... don't even realize he produced. He's dope AF and unheralded AF.


>if it were to happen.
>
>Marley Marl?
>
>Q-tip?
>
>No ID?
>
>Just trying to come up with match ups 'cause I'm still buzzing
>from Primo/Rza.
>
>Dr. Dre can go against no one. Too many hits in the bag. I
>think the closest one to come near him is Pharrell.
>
>Kanye vs. Just Blaze would be fun.
>
>
>

As for Dre...does he get the "well so and so actually did this" or is he past that?

Like which producers do we KNOW did 100% of the work? Like Tim had Danja right? But before that Devante had Tim & Missy....where is the line drawn?

>As for Dre...does he get the "well so and so actually did
>this" or is he past that?

just for the sheer volume of timeless hits. and its a level playing field in terms of production by committee.

>just for the sheer volume of timeless hits. and its a level
>playing field in terms of production by committee.

Cuz that's fucking ludicrous and borderline blasphemous.

they both hit the same markets. both very well known and make commercial hits. how much credit they deserve is in doubt. i could see it happen.

i think pharrell or kayne vs dre would be more fun tho.

not sure any of the three would really go through with it though.

it would be fun if they did match ups of the winners later.

He literally took 80s songs and put rap lyrics over them.

Say what you want about Dre's "stable" of underlings or whatever you want to call it, but the level of work Dre put into his (and/or his team's) beats/albums/art and the level of work that Puff put into any actual *music* (taking nothing away from his business acumen) is an apples and baseball fields comparison. They're not even on the same planet career-wise or beatwise, even if during a brief period in the 90s they both occupied the same radio space for a couple of songs or whatever.

It's intellectually dishonest to suggest otherwise.


>they both hit the same markets. both very well known and make
>commercial hits. how much credit they deserve is in doubt. i
>could see it happen.
>
>i think pharrell or kayne vs dre would be more fun tho.
>
>not sure any of the three would really go through with it
>though.
>
>it would be fun if they did match ups of the winners later.

the average person doesnt really know or care though.

Sticking Dre with Puffy is (1) offensive to hip-hop heads like us who know better and would never consider those two to be anywhere near the same level, and (2) disrespectful as fuck to Dre directly because now younger and/or less sophisticated/knowledgeable fans of the genre may assume that they *are* on the same level, both culturally and in terms of skills in the studio.

Puff belongs nowhere near really any of these types of battles, with Dre or any real beatmakers/musicians. Let him have a IG Live discussion with like Jimmy Iovine about running a label, and let's leave the DJ battles to real producers.


>the average person doesnt really know or care though.

you the typa nigga to think a producer could bring home the victory by playing that rare vinyl white label you loved in college from your street team record pool lol.

the typa nigga to say he wished dilla was still alive cuz he woulda broke out some frank n dank and bodied everybody lol.

seriously tho...you seem to be under a false impression of what these battles really are. maybe you havent really been paying attention to them and the audience reaction.

theyre not about technical proficiency. theyre not about who better monopolized their share of contribution to the production. theyre about who had the biggest records (and usually with the biggest artists). the most classic/popular/culturally pervasive body of work. the one that has the most that-was-my-shit's in the chamber.

diddy is prolly the only cat who could match dre track for track in terms of sheer volume of hits and historical audio landmarks that they had their names attached to (do we even need to go into the death row v bad boy tie in?).

shit scott storch may have had records he was the sole producer on but he also used records he only played keys on. and he got some of his biggest round-by-round victories against mannie fresh by playing creatively mediocre (but chart topping) records by beyonce and eve/gwen stefani. thats how he put him away and what most people talked about the next morning.

cuz thats what these battles really are.

if they announced there was a dre vs diddy battle next weekend...do you know how many people would be complaining about how wack the battle is because of what diddy did or didnt do in the studio? just you my man lol. the rest of america would be hyping it up non stop for a week.

you also seem to be under the impression that much of dres classic records werent sampled loops over sampled (or replayed) break beats (much like puff) but thats another discussion i guess.

>you the typa nigga to think a producer could bring home the
>victory by playing that rare vinyl white label you loved in
>college from your street team record pool lol.
>
>the typa nigga to say he wished dilla was still alive cuz he
>woulda broke out some frank n dank and bodied everybody lol.

I'm not the typa dude to do either of these things.


>seriously tho...you seem to be under a false impression of
>what these battles really are. maybe you havent really been
>paying attention to them and the audience reaction.
>
>theyre not about technical proficiency. theyre not about who
>better monopolized their share of contribution to the
>production. theyre about who had the biggest records (and
>usually with the biggest artists). the most
>classic/popular/culturally pervasive body of work. the one
>that has the most that-was-my-shit's in the chamber.

Yea so in my response I wasn't really thinking just in terms of this battle, I'll concede that. I was just speaking generally that putting them in the same sentence is near blasphemous.

I just don't look at Puff as a real "producer" and I know I'm not alone. So that was the root of my response, I wasn't just speaking in terms of this specific battle scenario which I know is what you were doing.


>diddy is prolly the only cat who could match dre track for
>track in terms of sheer volume of hits and historical audio
>landmarks that they had their names attached to (do we even
>need to go into the death row v bad boy tie in?).

Fair enough, makes sense. But as a "realhiphip" head I'd rather see Dre battle one of his *actual* peers like Preemo or Quik or RZA than someone like Puff who, again, I just don't think of as a true producer but more a label figure and composer.

But I see your point about hits v hits, and to that end if they let Storch take credit for beats he just contributed to then this matchup wouldn't be out of the question I guess.



>shit scott storch may have had records he was the sole
>producer on but he also used records he only played keys on.
>and he got some of his biggest round-by-round victories
>against mannie fresh by playing creatively mediocre (but chart
>topping) records by beyonce and eve/gwen stefani. thats how he
>put him away and what most people talked about the next
>morning.
>
>cuz thats what these battles really are.
>
>if they announced there was a dre vs diddy battle next
>weekend...do you know how many people would be complaining
>about how wack the battle is because of what diddy did or
>didnt do in the studio? just you my man lol. the rest of
>america would be hyping it up non stop for a week.

Let's not be hyperbolic - it wouldn't be JUST me. Ha. And I'd tune in.

Again I just auto-react to these two being mentioned in the same sentence.


>you also seem to be under the impression that much of dres
>classic records werent sampled loops over sampled (or
>replayed) break beats (much like puff) but thats another
>discussion i guess.

One I'd like to have !

and wonder why anyone thought they were on the same level as dr dre.

>Fair enough, makes sense. But as a "realhiphip" head I'd
>rather see Dre battle one of his *actual* peers like Preemo or
>Quik or RZA than someone like Puff who, again, I just don't
>think of as a true producer but more a label figure and
>composer.

dre going up against anybody but commercially era defining producers like timbaland, diddy, etc would be a yawner to the large majority of the audience. they just simply dont have the mainstream catalog or public profile to complete (rza *might* be acceptable).

>>you also seem to be under the impression that much of dres
>>classic records werent sampled loops over sampled (or
>>replayed) break beats (much like puff) but thats another
>>discussion i guess.
>
>One I'd like to have !

let me know if any of this sounds familiar:

https://youtu.be/K8OZux6hp1Q
https://youtu.be/ffklJc_vfuk
https://youtu.be/xKISdd2mKzU?t=129
https://youtu.be/G9jHiifI74Q

virtually the entire nwa catalog was just loops and break beats. thats what hip hop was. why is that a knock against diddy but not anybody else?

>and wonder why anyone thought they were on the same level as
>dr dre.

Assuming that's true, who cares ?


>dre going up against anybody but commercially era defining
>producers like timbaland, diddy, etc would be a yawner to the
>large majority of the audience. they just simply dont have
>the mainstream catalog or public profile to complete (rza
>*might* be acceptable).

Again, assuming that's even true, who cares ? They aren't making money of off this. This is just for fun. Yes, they're playing their "hits" but I think the Preem/RZA battle showed that "hits" isn't the only criteria. There can be certain matchups for hip hop heads. Doesn't need to be one size fits all. Nearly 200k people tuned in to that battle and I bet 80% of them didn't know 80% of the beats Preem played, and probably 60% of the beats RZA played. But they stuck around.

It's not like these producers need exposure to new audiences. They're doing this for fun to kill time during a quarantine. If a few "general public" folks log off or don't understand a matchup, or don't remember/know a few of the beats, who cares ?


>virtually the entire nwa catalog was just loops and break
>beats. thats what hip hop was. why is that a knock against
>diddy but not anybody else?

Because I don't think Puff actually *did* anything in the studio from a musical standpoint. I'm open to being proven wrong, I just don't consider him an actual music producer.

And even if you want to toss all that bias aside, re: the battle itself I just don't have any interest in hearing, like, "Let Me Ride" vs. "I'll Be Missin' You". It just seems like a forced matchup to me based solely on the fact that they both had unprecedented commercial success. Musically they have little else in common IMO.

its kinda a weird question to ask why i care about them when the producers involved are clearly putting on these ig live sessions for them.

you thought they were doing them for realhiphopheads like you? lol.

if its 'just for fun' (like you claim) then why do *you* care so much about the technical aspects involved instead of just letting fans enjoy the show/spectacle? arent you proving my point?

Dre doesn't need to be paired with Puff for the general public to be interested in it, obviously.

And again, their technical contributions aside, I just have no interest in hearing Dre's beats up against Puff's cotton candy 80s remakes. And hip hop head or not I think most people would agree once they started playing their respective beats/songs.

lol

Thanks for asking.

if so...id like to see how you distinguish him from diddy.

ye just looped samples...used multiple collaborators...and could barely even program drum patterns. he had to *sample* the dr dre xxplosive drums for guess whos back (in 2002!). he had to have timbaland come in and *reprogram* the drums on stronger (in 2005!).

yet people are mentioning him as an equal adversary to pharrell (who has produced some of the biggest records ever top to bottom from *scratch*) and you didnt seem to have much of a problem with that.

please advise.

>if so...id like to see how you distinguish him from diddy.
>
>ye just looped samples...used multiple collaborators...and
>could barely even program drum patterns. he had to *sample*
>the dr dre xxplosive drums for guess whos back (in 2002!). he
>had to have timbaland come in and *reprogram* the drums on
>stronger (in 2005!).
>
>yet people are mentioning him as an equal adversary to
>pharrell (who has produced some of the biggest records ever
>top to bottom from *scratch*) and you didnt seem to have much
>of a problem with that.
>
>please advise.

Well for starters I don't recall speaking on the Kanye/Pharrell hypothetical at all. Please advise if I did.

But that aside - as if it's not clear I'm pretty defensive of Dre haha. Primarily because he's the main reason I got into hip-hop in the first place, so I admittedly have a bit of a bias. But that doesn't mean I'm wrong.

The way I see it (my opinion) is that Pharrell, Kanye, and Dre are truer musicians than Puff, who I view as more of a businessman who just happened to end up in, and make, music. Pharrell, as you said, has made a ton of his music from scratch. Dre, for all this talk of his "stable" of producers and musicians, is a studio rat whose work on the boards is unassailable. Yes, he brought in musicians to recreate samples, and had co-production help pretty much throughout his career ... but I don't think it's any question that he was the top dogg in the studio at all times, dating back to NWA. He had first and final say on everything no matter what other contributions he had. I think Kanye was similar to Dre, but with less technical skills. In other words I think he was the mastermind behind the ideas and visions for the music, but didn't have the technical chops to put it together himself so he brought people in.

I don't think of Puff in that same way and maybe that's my bias/me not remembering. But while I know his name is on a lot of production credits through the years I think of him as the label head giving advice but not really contributing musically beyond just offering up an 80s song to rap over.

https://www.essence.com/articles/diddy-dr-dre-verzuz-battle/

that would have been dope to see

They wanted to do Pete vs Preem but Preem said they’ve been doing that for years at live shows so he didn’t want to recreate what a lot of people have seen in his mind.

That’s when he said only Dre because it had to be someone on his level.

Then they said what about RZA and he said hell yeah that’s the only other one he would do.

thats basically word for word what i remembered lol. i read it on some article but didnt remember where it was.

i wonder what other names would had made premier agree to do it.

if it was premier vs dre most people would had given it to dre. not unjustified but it would have served to give premier shine. would have exposed him to more people.

premier vs rza was dope. it was a celebration of their music but not necessarily as much new exposure.

i think pete would need to be matched up with someone that has a different audience. make it an east coast vs west coast thing.

How about D.J. Quik vs. Battlecat?

Or better yet D.J. Quik vs. Hi-Tek?

Would love to see some West Coast heavy hitters make some noise. **I know Hi-Tek is from Cincinatti**

but it's definitely still there

keep it friendly, no negativity. im not sure quik is the best choice for positivity but the music would bang lol

or Beats by the Pound vs. Puffy's Hitmen