Are we having fun yet?

Poll question: The 2020 Democratic Primary

Poll result (76 votes) Joe Biden (35 votes) Vote Bernie Sanders (40 votes) Vote Contested Convention because 1968 was so much fun (1 votes) Vote

with most candidates dropping out (hopefully bloomberg kicks rocks after today)...i think we end up with a 2 horse race (even if someone like liz stays in) and a clear plurality winner who gets nominated on the 1st ballot.

at least i hope.

i hope if sanders wins then theres no shenanigans that take the victory away from him and completely fracture the party.

and i hope if biden wins then sanders folks will acknowledge the will of the electorate and accept they got outvoted.

>
>i hope if sanders wins then theres no shenanigans that take
>the victory away from him and completely fracture the party.
>
>and i hope if biden wins then sanders folks will acknowledge
>the will of the electorate and accept they got outvoted.

Even if they don't reach the majority threshold?

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although we can't rely on candidates to take that position - as they will always fight for their own self interest - be it hillary clinton, bernie sanders, or elizabeth warren.

That rule needs to be set in stone through actual reform - closing the door on the kind of disastrous brokered convention that destroyed the party in 1968.

-->

and expect to keep your party intact and win the general.

i guess if sanders is ahead at the convention then we will see lol.

At this point, a really fucked up evil part of me thinks...

fuck it, lets give the world Bernie, lets see that disappointment spread once they block brotherman at every opportunity and we're going to have a long era of political apathy...oh god, we might have long periods of political apathy.

>fuck it, lets give the world Bernie, lets see that
>disappointment spread once they block brotherman at every
>opportunity and we're going to have a long era of political
>apathy...oh god, we might have long periods of political
>apathy.

Biden loses to Trump, after a contested convention.

see my comments in the other thread on Warren.

What Sanders is willing to do, which no other candidate has embraced - not even to a different degree, is empowering regular people to actively *do* politics. Not just vote, but to strike, to protest, to confront, and to help our neighbors in small gestures of solidarity.

What Sanders is offering is chaotic, but it's chaos motivated by a genuinely novel understanding of the American electorate with the American state - an understanding that acknowledges that we have more people and if we are loud and rude and relentless that we will win.

There's a couple directions that you can go with that assertion. If you don't like loud and rude and relentless, then that's reasonable but I'd argue it's definitely closer to a present political apathy than your (reasonable) hypothetical. There's also the possibility that you're just correct. We can enable to the left to actually work their political will, and we will lose, and then everybody will pack it in and go home. I think my quibble with that is that we've tried the other option, several times, of enlisting gentle experts to assure us that they're the most capable of triangulating around the politically possible and their results are what brought us right to today.

We haven't tried socialism or a mass movement of Americans who have a clear theory of change that's tacked to the idea that politicians aren't heroes or even particularly admirable. They're people who want the obscene levers of American political power and if they want them then we should, at the very least, make sure they offer us something in return.

In short, please consider the possibility - even if you think it's miniscule - that Sanders can win and, so empowered by the ridiculous control we've given the executive office since 9-11, can also accomplish some things that will actually materially improve the material circumstances of millions of Americans. And furthermore, that they might be grateful and remember that bravery so that we can bury the fascist Republicans forever, not just until they scramble a new message for the next election.

myself included.

I’m willing to give it a shot but I would be lying if I didn’t admit I don’t want the struggle that may come with making changes to the HC system or paying more taxes so people have a better quality of life


“I just got money” - Mos Def

I get it, yet I'm still surprised by how many people are convinced Biden is our best shot at ousting Trump, considering the results of the last presidential election. The idea that Sanders is too radical and that Biden's moderate stance is more likely to "bring people together" feels like a repeat of 2016.


>We can enable to the left to actually work their
>political will, and we will lose, and then everybody will pack
>it in and go home. I think my quibble with that is that we've
>tried the other option, several times, of enlisting gentle
>experts to assure us that they're the most capable of
>triangulating around the politically possible and their
>results are what brought us right to today.


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and let it be known I always thought Biden would be the guy because of Obama and brand recognition.

What I didn’t expect was his terrible senile ass getting his much traction after one victory in SC.

Joe better give southern black voters the world if he pulls this off.

He went from down and out to a leading contender. Just by winning a state that was tailor made for him.

Hope I'm wrong.

-->

even as abnormal as trump himself is...historically things have been pretty rigid/consistent.

the incumbent party lost the presidential election (hard for a party to get 3 straight terms).

the party of an unpopular prez lost a ton of seats in the midterms.

and when dems actually get a president in the oval office...they are always younger than theyre gop predecessor going back a crazy amount of years (i posted it on here before).

so dems putting a president older than trump in office would be an aberration.

i think we are seeing some of the struggles with young/1st time voter turnout and having old folks at the front of the ballot.

it might be kinda hard to resonate with the ascending majority when youve damn near reached literal life expectancy.

and its not even about trump as a candidate. its about how fickle the dem base is and how our candidate needs to be inspiring, likable, eloquent, cultured, relatable, etc. for us to get off our butts.

people i personally preferred like beto and (eventually) warren got little traction.

>and its not even about trump as a candidate. its about how
>fickle the dem base is and how our candidate needs to be
>inspiring, likable, eloquent, cultured, relatable, etc. for us
>to get off our butts.

Based on the 2016 general election results and my policy preferences, I’d much rather we went with Sanders as the nominee, but I’m not convinced he’ll beat Trump, either.


_______________________________
gamblers and masturbators.

http://twitter.com/urkelmoedee

https://www.albumism.com/search?q=Marcus%20Willis

Return To Zero: A rap radio show hosted by mrhood75 (Spider Jerusalem) and me (UrkelMoeDee)
https://mixcloud.com

but i have doubts based on his ability to win in areas that should be competitive this year and his effect on downballot dems.

im not thrilled about biden either but im slightly more confident in him based on the makeup of the electorate and voter behavior from 2017 up to now.

hours to sink Bernie is some State Sen. Clay Davis stuff I didn't foresee.

They've rolled out these vague reports every month or so talking about how Obama is operating behind the scenes to favor Biden, or Warren, or Buttigieg etc...

If Obama wanted to flex his muscle on this - he'd come out with a strong endorsement for his VP when it matters most - like right now.

From what I've gathered - Obama was luke-warm (at best) about Biden's prospects - and there have been plenty of reports dating back to 2019 where he actually dissuaded Biden from running.

Of course - now that it's a binary choice between Bernie & Biden - Obama may feel Biden would best carry out his legacy, but I disagree: Obama put in a lot foundational work to set the table for real progressive reform. Sanders is the candidate who can carry that baton now that the foundational work had been done (even though Trump has done his best to undo everything Obama accomplished).

-->

lead Bernie was about to build. That's the one to the body. Then Obama's endorsement maybe later this week or next week is the two to the head. That would be more effective than blowing his wad with an endorsement before today.

so I don't understand why Obama would delay matters in terms of endorsing Biden if he was emphatically anti-Saunders as you claim he is, especially since today would delivery a huge number of delegates to put that much more pressure on Saunders and further solidify things for Biden. It would make more sense (and result in less money spent campaigning) for Obama to support Biden full and well as early as possible.

delivered as a final blow to Bernie's campaign. Biden did all he could with little to no money, which was to limp to SC and then have Jim Clyburn carry him across, like the Footprints in the sand poem. If Obama had endorsed him months ago, that would be baked into the cake, giving Bernie and his people lots of time to have counter-strategy before the voting started. The way it looks right now, Bernie is not going to be able to pull that off. Momentum is huge with this stuff. Biden is rolling downhill with a head of steam, right now in a way that wouldn't have been as likely with an early Obama endorsement.

like you said...if he really wanted to tip the scales then he wouldnt have to engage in a bunch of passive aggressive string pulling behind the scenes that might not even move the needle in any tangible way.

dude has a (frustrating) reputation of respecting norms and remaining reserved (merrick garland, bipartisan russian (non)announcement, etc). i dont see him jumping out the window here in such a potentially flammable fashion.

This, plus what just happened with Pete shows that it was exactly what it looked like.


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/us/politics/obama-biden-democratic-primary.html



Over the past year, Joseph R. Biden Jr. and former President Barack Obama practiced a political distancing of sorts, with Mr. Obama maintaining a posture of public neutrality in the Democratic primaries, offering counsel to any candidate who called (most did), and Mr. Biden saying he wanted to win on his own.



But with calibrated stealth, Mr. Obama has been considerably more engaged in the campaign’s denouement than has been previously revealed, even before he endorsed Mr. Biden on Tuesday.

For months, Mr. Obama had kept in close contact with senior party officials, in hopes of preventing a repeat of the protracted and nasty 2016 primary race.

Then, in the weeks after it became clear that Mr. Biden was the party’s near-certain nominee, Mr. Obama — telling a friend he needed to “accelerate the endgame” — had at least four long conversations with his former vice president’s remaining rival, Senator Bernie Sanders. Mr. Obama’s efforts to ease the senator out of the race played a significant role in Mr. Sanders’s decision to end his bid and endorse Mr. Biden, according to people close to the Vermont independent.

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By that time, Mr. Biden and Mr. Obama had already begun hashing out the thorny questions of how, when and where to deploy a former president thrust into an unfamiliar role as his sidekick’s sidekick.

How to proceed is a negotiation between friends, but a delicate one. The terms of the reunion, however welcome, are complicated by an intermingling of political and personal issues, according to interviews with a dozen people close to both men who spoke mostly on the condition of anonymity.

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Mr. Biden’s team knew better than to ask Mr. Obama for his overt support during the primary campaign. But they felt he might have done more to spare them a few tribulations, and were incensed that some former Obama advisers, especially David Axelrod, repeatedly questioned Mr. Biden’s viability. When Naomi Biden, the candidate’s granddaughter, took to Twitter in February to describe the former Obama aide as “a jerk with a microphone,” cheering could be heard at the campaign’s headquarters in Philadelphia, according to a person who was present. (Mr. Axelrod has said he considers himself an impartial observer.)

Party officials were more direct, prodding Mr. Obama to be more active behind the scenes, especially after Mr. Biden had begun his comeback by winning the South Carolina primary. But the former president, often communicating through Eric Schultz, a political aide who has also served as a bridge to the Biden campaign, insisted that his best use would be as a passive peacemaker.

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ImageVice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. and President Barack Obama in 2016. Mr. Obama has been much more involved in the denouement of this year’s primary than has been previously revealed.
Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. and President Barack Obama in 2016. Mr. Obama has been much more involved in the denouement of this year’s primary than has been previously revealed.Credit...Al Drago/The New York Times
“He kept his powder dry, and that gave him credibility, which made all the difference,” said Tom Perez, the Democratic National Committee chairman, who served as labor secretary under Mr. Obama.

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Now, with the primary campaign over, Mr. Biden and his aides are eager to deploy the former president as quickly as possible, especially on fund-raising, as they race to compete with President Trump’s small-donor juggernaut.


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Mr. Biden’s election night party in South Carolina, where his primary victory began his comeback.
Mr. Biden’s election night party in South Carolina, where his primary victory began his comeback.Credit...Maddie McGarvey for The New York Times
“Biden has obviously achieved something huge here on his own, but the president is a surrogate unlike anyone else anyone can bring to bear — I mean, who has Trump got?” said Joel Benenson, Mr. Obama’s longtime pollster and a top adviser to Hillary Clinton in 2016. “Getting to the point where he can get Obama involved, you know, that’s a big deal.”

Mr. Obama is open to whatever the campaign suggests, according to several people familiar with his thinking. But he continues to counsel caution, the better to preserve his political capital and to avoid the perception that he is somehow coming in to rescue Mr. Biden.

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A more immediate matter is the logistical challenge of taking on a sitting president during a pandemic and an economic collapse. And Mr. Obama, like Mr. Trump, is less adept at recording direct-to-camera pitches than at delivering rousing speeches before live crowds, a scenario that social-distancing restrictions have made impossible for the foreseeable future.

The Obama endorsement came in a sober but impassioned 12-minute endorsement video released Tuesday morning. “I’m so proud to endorse Joe Biden for president of the United States,” Mr. Obama said, his face shot in close-up. “I believe Joe has all the qualities we need in a president right now.”

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Mr. Obama offered a preview of how he plans to pitch Mr. Biden, less as a traditional stand-alone candidate than as the standard-bearer for a larger Democratic coalition bound by decency and competence. And after drawing Mr. Sanders into that fold, calling him “an American original, a man who has devoted his life to giving voice to working people’s hopes,” he concluded the video with: “Join us. Join Joe.”

The camps are still working out the details of engaging Mr. Obama in fund-raising. But David Plouffe, who remains Mr. Obama’s most trusted political adviser, has offered to pitch in, and plans to participate in several virtual Biden fund-raisers that could be a dry run for Mr. Obama’s participation, according to people briefed on the plans.

Mr. Biden’s emergence as the Democrats’ presumptive nominee relatively early in the political calendar is unwelcome news to Mr. Trump, his bluster notwithstanding, several of the president’s advisers said. Last Thursday, after trying to goad an anti-Biden revolt among Sanders supporters, the president suggested dark motives for Mr. Obama’s hesitancy in endorsing Mr. Biden.

“You know what? I’ll tell you, it does amaze me that President Obama hasn’t supported Sleepy Joe,” Mr. Trump said at a White House coronavirus briefing, in between questions about his administration’s response to the crisis. “It just hasn’t happened. When is it going to happen? When is it going to happen? Why isn’t he? He knows something that you don’t know, that I think I know, but you don’t know. So it’ll be interesting.”

That claim was Trumpian misdirection. Mr. Obama timed his video to follow Mr. Sanders’s endorsement on Monday.

But the Biden-Obama relationship, which deepened from a congenial partnership into a real friendship in 2015, when the president consoled Mr. Biden during his son Beau’s illness and death, is not without complications.

Mr. Biden is grateful for Mr. Obama’s friendship but increasingly proud of his historic comeback. When news reports surfaced that Mr. Obama had called to congratulate Mr. Biden on his victory in South Carolina, the candidate made it clear to his staff that while his connection to Mr. Obama played a role in delivering African-American voters, Mr. Obama “had not lifted a finger” on his behalf, according to a senior Democrat with knowledge of his remarks.

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Well, maybe a pinkie. Last year, Mr. Obama consulted with Mr. Biden’s team on campaign strategy, and he bucked up Mr. Biden after his loss in the Iowa caucuses. In a private dinner last fall with members of the liberal Democracy Alliance, Mr. Obama offered thinly veiled criticism of Mr. Sanders’s “revolutionary” policies and opined that voters wanted change, not to “tear down the system.”

Mr. Obama is relieved that the Democratic contest is over early, but he had other plans for 2020 — hoping to finish, publish and promote his White House memoirs before the campaign kicked into high gear.

He had intended to engage publicly only after the convention (now scheduled for August, at the earliest), in line with his fall barnstorming campaign on behalf of Mrs. Clinton in 2016 and congressional candidates in 2018. He resisted calls by some Democratic officials earlier this year to intervene on Mr. Biden’s behalf in the wake of Mr. Sanders’s victory in the Nevada caucuses, arguing that he did not want to “thumb the scale” for his friend.

Nonetheless, he was becoming more agitated by the state of the race as Mr. Sanders surged, and Mr. Biden slumped. By late February, he was telling people in his orbit that he thought Mr. Biden’s campaign had an alarming lack of “infrastructure” and shared his doubts about Mr. Biden’s belief that he could win the nomination after losing Iowa and New Hampshire.

Democratic officials say Mr. Obama had no direct role in the campaign shake-up that happened soon after. But people with knowledge of the situation say he made it clear that he supported Mr. Biden’s decision to name a new campaign manager, Jennifer O’Malley Dillon, a former Obama campaign field organizing specialist, and to move another Obama veteran, the former White House communications director Anita Dunn, into a more powerful role.


Image
Senator Bernie Sanders and Mr. Obama in 2016. Mr. Obama’s efforts to ease the senator out of the race played a significant role in his decision to end his bid and endorse Mr. Biden, according to people close to Mr. Sanders.
Senator Bernie Sanders and Mr. Obama in 2016. Mr. Obama’s efforts to ease the senator out of the race played a significant role in his decision to end his bid and endorse Mr. Biden, according to people close to Mr. Sanders.Credit...Zach Gibson for The New York Times
Mr. Obama did not directly encourage Mr. Sanders’s rivals to endorse Mr. Biden ahead of the decisive Super Tuesday primaries. But he did tell Pete Buttigieg, a moderate, that he would never have more leverage than on the day that he was quitting the race — and the former South Bend mayor soon joined the avalanche of former candidates backing Mr. Biden.

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Mr. Sanders, who in 2016 accused the Democratic establishment of conspiring to support Mrs. Clinton, took note of all these moves, but he has made no such charges against Mr. Obama.

In fact, one of his campaign advisers, speaking on the condition of anonymity in the wake of last month’s string of Sanders defeats, said the senator was grateful for Mr. Obama’s neutrality throughout the campaign. And Mr. Sanders, who has denied reports that he contemplated a primary challenge to Mr. Obama in 2012, had made a point of reaching out to the former president several times in recent months to update him on the progress of his campaign.

Before those conversations, the two men had a polite but frosty relationship, and some of their private exchanges over the years devolved into policy debates, former aides said. But Mr. Obama saw Mr. Sanders’s overture as an opening to assume the peacemaker’s role he believed himself best suited to play.

Since leaving office, Mr. Obama has ruminated about what he could have done differently, both as president and as a campaign surrogate for Mrs. Clinton, to stop Mr. Trump’s ascent, and concluded that he needed to do more to repair the damage from party infighting.

“His true north is winning back the White House, period,” said Valerie Jarrett, a close friend and adviser to the former president, in a phone interview last month. Mr. Obama, she added, would “have backed any nominee, any of them, with the same conviction.”

Mr. Sanders is much closer personally to Mr. Biden despite their political differences, but Mr. Obama, unlike Mr. Biden, remains a trusted figure to many Sanders supporters, so much so that his campaign released an ad that featured a patchwork of clips with Mr. Obama lavishing praise on Mr. Sanders.

In the end, Mr. Sanders concluded that negotiating a détente through the former president would ease the blow of his withdrawal on his base. Whether Mr. Obama’s involvement will ultimately draw Sanders voters to support Mr. Biden’s candidacy remains an open question, and some supporters, including Mr. Sanders's own campaign press secretary, say they won’t.

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In late March, Mr. Obama reached out to Mr. Sanders. The two men would talk at least three more times, with the former president reassuring Mr. Sanders that he had already accomplished much of what he had set out to do, moving the party — and Mr. Biden — substantially to the left, according to two people with knowledge of their interactions.

But, the people said, he mostly listened to Mr. Sanders, who was in a reflective mood, speaking candidly about his post-campaign plans and feelings about the race, the kind of conversation the two men had never had before.

Mr. Sanders, for his part, is intent on protecting his open line of communication with the former president. When asked for a readout during an interview on MSNBC shortly after dropping out last week, he replied, “They’re private conversations,” waving a don’t-even-ask-me-about-it hand at the camera.

The interviewer, Chris Hayes, plowed ahead: “Well, can I ask about your conversations with Vice President Biden?”

“Oh, yes,” Mr. Sanders answered, with a laugh.

Which I think plays 10x worse than being called a socialist.

Biden doesn't seem to have the energy (or the will) to push back in real time against Trump. Trump will bully him. And contrary to popular belief, Americans love a bully.

Sanders still runs around like a spring chicken and will finger wag Trump to death.

Also policy discussion wise, I think Sanders would has the advantage over Biden against Trump. Yeah, his proposals are "extreme". But they are generally popular.

How is Trump going to attack Sanders other than to just raise the vague specter of socialism? Is he going to say people shouldn't have healthcare? Is he going to say billionaires should be taxed less? Is he going to say people should be paid a lower wage?

With Biden, I can't even verbalize what he is striving for other than bringing us back to respectability.
He is on record vigorously supporting cutting social security and medicare and Trump will hit him hard on this (no matter how hypocritical). Trump will call him corrupt over his son's Ukraine stuff (no matter how hypocritical).

I don't care who actually becomes president, but I just see Biden as a much weaker candidate versus Trump.

The problem is "you can never go back home", as the saying goes.

On the surface, it sounds like MAGA, which worked for Trump, but it's different. MAGA was really about white people stopping the browning of America. That's it's own, real, evil message. "Let's go home again" is specifically about reliving 2008 - 2016. That will NOT work. Alot has changed in that short time.

and you're right - MAGA was like a new-born, twisted, more abrasive form of Nixonian "The Silent Majority" - which became the loud, declining majority in 2016.

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>With Biden, I can't even verbalize what he is striving for
>other than bringing us back to respectability.
>He is on record vigorously supporting cutting social security
>and medicare and Trump will hit him hard on this (no matter
>how hypocritical). Trump will call him corrupt over his son's
>Ukraine stuff (no matter how hypocritical).
>
>I don't care who actually becomes president, but I just see
>Biden as a much weaker candidate versus Trump.


-He supported America's endless foreign interventions, deregulating wall street, bailed out crooked banks in 2008 to name a few...and is against student loan reform (probably thinks Davos is a fine lady), medicare for all no way, and not even interested in open elections and primaries.

not overall 'likeability'

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/485640-sanders-biden-is-a-decent-guy-hes-just-wrong-on-the-issues

Several orders of Biden nonsensical word salad coming right up

how are you going to disregard tulsi like that?

poor thing.

And also why does he not just call himself a socialism, socialism doesn’t need to qualified by the word democratic. Socialism is not inherently not democratic.

And is very much associated with the non-democratic. I guess it goes back to the cold war.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Cool. That’s what I suspected. Any idea why he never ran for president before 16?

https://time.com/5422714/what-is-democratic-socialism/

while he was mayor

“What democratic socialists want is closer to what exists in Scandinavia or Iceland, expanding what Europeans talk about — a large welfare state in a capitalist society,” says Kazin. (That said, there’s some debate about whether those Nordic nations can really be considered social democracies anymore or whether they are more market-driven than most people think.) “ is not a violent overthrow of capitalism, but working within the system through legal and peaceful means electoral and social movements,” says Isserman."

we dont even have to point to successful socialism in other countries.

we can point to successful socialism here. like medicare, social security, etc. the most popular/essential parts of our societal framework that voters of all parties dont wanna live without.

but we live in a dumb country fam.

republicans called everything in the new deal socialism (til americans loved it). repubs praised romneycare. then when obama took it national...repubs called it socialism.

they just keep calling shit socialism to sour public opinion and it keeps working.

like when its a ballot initiative with no d/r next to it...voters in both parties overwhelmingly approve the expansion of medicaid...then voters of one party overwhelmingly vote for politicians that wanna gut/eliminate/refuse that same medicaid expansion they just approved of. ditto with voting rights initiatives, wage increase initiatives, anti corruption initiatives, etc.

thats the country we live in.

We all need to be trained to stifle our knee-jerk reactions to the word 'socialism' and come to terms with how some of our own political instincts are in line with with it.

An old white millionaire with a successful mayoral record (in an albeit small city) where business boomed shouldn't have to explain that he's not Pol Pot and the DSA not the Khmer Rouge to a Republican, but if Democrats are letting the fear they are projecting onto Republicans of the word cloud their own judgment, then yes, it needs to be pounded into people's consciousness again and again because world view takes practice.

Maybe not fast enough, but I spent my childhood watching Red Dawn at my Opus Dei neighbor's house* and reflexively cringing at the word "socialism". And that's not really the experience of children growing up now, which is the result of de-fanging the rhetoric around this compassionate ideology devoted to imagining a more equitable world where we recognize our shared humanity and direct our labor towards the ideal that if one of us isn't free than none of us are free.

I also teach about a hundred students per semester and take every possible opportunity to indoctrinate them. I am utterly unemployable in any other field and time is definitely on my side.

*I realize it's odd to say that I spent my childhood watching one particular move, and that's obviously an exaggeration but between the 80's style capitalist paranoia they sought to instill in their kids at a horrifyingly young age and the family's much more supportable love for Patrick Swayze, I'd say I watched it no fewer than two dozen times.

but don't recognize our own so clearly in front of them

The amount of bad guy Arab movies I grew up watching?

Delta Force. True Lies (CRIMSON JIHAD). I mean there were 100s.

You can see the products of this indoctrination in the comments of every Ilhan Omar tweet.

not that you shouldnt keep explaining/educating.

thats how politics in our country is.

people want headlines and bumper stickers.

when people dont know what something is within a bite size nugget...it allows your opponent to define it within a bite size nugget.

death panels. energy independence. open borders. death tax. etc.

gop has mastered the art of filling the knowledge vacuum.

morsels are being eaten up by a good portion of the white working class in swing states.

And I don't think Biden's 'Obama, Obama' mantra is going to get him those same people.

When it comes to the general, Trump will try to smear Bernie's politics using methods of pandering and dishonesty to a degree which we have never seen, but I do think the counters Bernie will have on a disastrous term rife with empty promises and scandal will kneecap them. Trump has escaped impeachment but not without being hobbled.

-->

In his 30 years of whatever of unwavering viewpoints and consistency, why did he never run for president, waiting for kucinich to get out of the way? Bill Clinton was more acceptable than Hilary?

I’m honestly curious

a movement needs its leader to be president so badly?


I mean, don't get me wrong, its obviously ideal and being a senator isn't close to Pres.


But folks are acting like its their final chance and shit.


Why can't he apply the same pressure/tactics/etc to pass some progressive legislation from his seat?

of both Republican and Democratic economic policy in the wake of the big bank bailouts where we've seen a massive redistribution of wealth concentrated to the top tenth of one percent. They both correctly note this as corporate socialism. This - along with the long-standing bi-partisan consensus for war - drew Sanders out of Vermont to bring his message to the national stage. Sanders has been one of the only voices in the Senate to consistently speak out against wasteful, disastrous u.s. foreign policy.

In 2016, Sanders led a movement to draft Warren for President - because he knew she'd address his main gripe: the billionaire class dominating our economic and political life. Warren did not opt to run in 2016 - and being that Clinton was running in an uncontested primary, Sanders knew the only way to bring that message to the national forefront would be for him to actually step in and vie for an unlikely bid to become President.

Fast forward to today - and love him or hate him - you can't deny that Sanders has galvanized an entire generation to thrust itself into the political process.


-->

nm

Socialist is an old term - it's not like he made it up. Marx actually hated the Democratic Socialists that were in Europe in the mid-19th Century and talks shit about them directly in the Communist Manifesto.

he did ask Elizabeth Warren to run then, she declined.

It was a longshot.

He looks a step behind every time and even though Trump is an evil racist I don’t want Trump capitalizing on being able to make Biden look weak and old

Not surprising that Biden would poll well here.

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People on here laughed and ugh’d... and I’m by no means a Biden fan but I thought he would win for obvious reasons.. aka old and white.

To see people on here propping him up is weird af.

Or are they cowards worried that the Republican slurs against Bernie will be too insurmountable?

chance to beat Trump are cowards? If so, don't you think that is a bit much?

sounds reasonable.

you seem hung up on my comment

NO I don't think anybody who doesn't vote for my candidate is a coward. There were many feasible candidates in the running and I wasn't set even set on mine early on.

I think if a voter registered Democrat who likes a candidate but is afraid to commit to them because Repubs will use bully tactics, that is acting scary as fuck.

and while this place swears they are progressive it’s mostly over identity land twitter shit.

Real world shit? They don’t have the stones to follow thru on it so they settle for senile Joe.

When he shits his pants on stage or slips up and tells everyone to vote for the other guy if they don’t like him during a debate they will start bashing him again..

All while saying Bernie couldn’t beat Joe when we see how the Dems woe KH harder to beat Bernie than to beat Trump.

most of the polls on this site have had a split of bernie/warren

i havent voted in this poll because yeah she still exists and we dont have the results from today yet. if things play out as expected then maybe ill hit the bernie button tomorrow.

vs who they prefer


Not everything is black and white.


My guess is a decent portion of these Biden votes are people who would love to see Bernie be pres (or at least a progressive), but don't think Bernie can win.


Why is this so hard for you to keep in mind?


Not everyone voting for Biden is old and out of touch.

No every Biden voter is "low information".

Not every vote for Warren is a vote for Biden.


etc. This stuff isn't nearly as simple as you make it.


And some of Bernie's supporters *cough cough* surely turned at least some people off.


** I voted Bernie in your little poll for the record, because I still like his chances better than senile Joe. But you just pretending Warren doesn't exist and trying to tie supporter her to a brokered convention is...predictable.

i know amy dropping out was tough.

And now I'm lashing out. I'm itching to throw this stapler on my desk.

expecting a president to pass free healthcare, free college, a complete overhaul of our medical service industries, a completely overhaul of our energy sector, a federal jobs guarantee, forgiveness of all student debt...

...with a record budget deficit and a slim senate majority (if that) with mitch mcconnell gripping the filibuster.

you cant blame people for calling it 'pie in the sky' and looking for a more practical/realistic candidate.

He's going to leave a lot of people behind in the name of realism. And he's not just saying they're political impossible - he's telling them to stop asking for things that will meaningfully improve their lives.

How does he sell that to those voters?

should he instead keep selling them false hope to keep them in the fold?

is biden supposed to lie to folks because it makes them feel good? that sounds an awful lot like a cult.

theres a lot of stuff that people want/need. most folks know to manage their expectations based on realistic conditions. not become more fanatical about the delusion.

even people like aoc are pulling the curtain back and admitting m4a is improbable. maybe its time for sanders supporters to follow her lead.

>expecting a president to pass free healthcare, free college,
>a complete overhaul of our medical service industries, a
>completely overhaul of our energy sector, a federal jobs
>guarantee, forgiveness of all student debt...
>
>...with a record budget deficit and a slim senate majority (if
>that) with mitch mcconnell gripping the filibuster.
>
>you cant blame people for calling it 'pie in the sky' and
>looking for a more practical/realistic candidate.
>

I understand in terms of worries about his electability, but if he gets through, none of these things are actually going to happen

https://twitter.com/AnnCoulter/status/1232477909266231296
-----
Sen. Warren has convinced me that Bernie isn't that worrisome. He'll never get anything done. SHE'S the freak who will show up with 17 idiotic plans every day and keep everyone up until it gets done.
-----

Literally anyone picking Biden must be old and out of touch.


Anyone voting Warren must be a snake who wants a brokered convention.



Its the movement against the world....why aren't more of these out of touch snakes signing up to join them?


Warren was 2nd nationally in some polls not that long ago, little buddy left her out of his poll. And he can't fathom why anyone would would support someone they think has the best shot at beating Trump.

that blinds some of these folks from believing someone wouldnt fall in line behind bernie for anything other than corrupt intent.

imagine living in a bubble that thick.

'WHO IS PAYING YOUUUUUUUU?!'

lol.

that shit is fucking crazy as hell.

>you cant blame people for calling it 'pie in the sky' and
>looking for a more practical/realistic candidate.

you can't blame people for staying their asses home because the "more practical" candidate offers nothing but the red carpet to the corrupt entities *currently* running the country into the ground.

cmon doc.

i know youre better than that stock/stereotypical lowest common denominator youtube comment ass logic.

I never called Biden supporters "low information voters" - but you've made it a habit of putting words in people's mouths.

One thing is for sure: this is a two-person race. People can (and should) vote for whoever they want - but they should also understand the dynamics of the primary at this point.

-->

You're freaking out that moderate candidates are supporting...dun dun dun...the leading moderate.


"Everyone should vote for who they want" is definitely not your stance- at least not lately.

"A vote for Warren is a vote for Biden"

And yes, you absolutely have downplayed/condescended anyone who might vote for Biden. You did it in this very thread- just assumed everyone is old.

And, as usual, you cherry picked points. Good reminder why debating/engaging with you is completely pointless.

Just, do us all a favor and remember that some people vote for who they think will win, not necessarily who they'd like to see be president.

Referring to the fact that Biden's base is comprised of older voters is condescending? lol So sensitive to be alarmed by such obvious facts.

And yes - many people have (accurately) described this now as a two-person race. Given that the data has shown that Warren voters prefer Sanders as their 2nd choice more than any other candidate - it's not really even an opinion to say that she's drawing some Sanders votes away.

If you disagree - point to some actual evidence/data instead of whining and crying about it.


-->

Cmon. I’m certainly no saint but I’m not gonna sit up here and act like I am either.

Will you vote for Biden if he gets the nom? I’m curious

go to his website.
You'll agree with every policy if you're a Bernie stan.
There's nothing to be against if you're left leaning.

Wait. You serious?

I can't believe you actually typed that shit.
Wow.

-->

Bernie Sanders on the issues
I’m running for president so that, when we are in the White House, the movement we build together can achieve economic, racial, social and environmental justice for all.

https://berniesanders.com/issues/

by the time of the maryland primary

my reason is that I do believe that politics is about coalition-building
and anyone that wants to pass laws whether in the house or senate, needs to have that support- or be willing to build it

to me the best person for that is warren
I see her as being focused, willing to work with other congressional folk to get things done
and i really like her policy platform and the fact that she has put a lot of thought on how we will need to disinfect
the effects of the administration at all levels (e.g. rebuild the civil work-force, various fed departments etc)
so yes, I see her policies as being more likely to go somewhere.

my second choice here is biden -because again he has that support/goodwill
at the place that matters when it comes to passing policies and legislation
he's misguided to think that republicans will come around or that things can go back to some new normal
but the house has proven that it can legislate and pass bills that are needed
we need the senate to actually move things forward
i don't see biden as standing in the way of the progress that has already started.


the president doesnt write the laws - he needs to have the support of the place that does.
and yes, that place is *the establishment*
the president is not some superhero that swoops in and with a wave of the hand everything changes
s/he actually needs to play well with others

Particularly in Mass. She'll drop out tonight or tomorrow.

which is really disappointing. Buttigieg & Klobuchar outperformed her but dropped out to hitch their wagons to Biden. This was a clear move to shift momentum and dogpile on the Biden train with the clear intention to stop Sanders.

Warren also seems perfectly content with a Biden nomination. That's her prerogative.



-->

Tulsi still in too

but she ain’t winning shit but the biggest loser by playing spoiler.

But between the severe misstep of calling herself Native American (which was just so brazenly stupid) and the fact that this country is sexist as shit told me she'd never beat Trump. I'd love to see that debate though - she'd wipe the floor with him - but she won't beat him. And now she's got zero shot at it anyway.

I was between her and Bernie. I'm of the opinion that a vote for Liz is a vote for Biden today so I said fuck that and voted Bernie. He's not a perfect candidate, and he'll probably lose (I've said that Trump's getting re-elected) but fuck Biden.

>But between the severe misstep of calling herself Native
>American (which was just so brazenly stupid) and the fact that
>this country is sexist as shit told me she'd never beat Trump.
>I'd love to see that debate though - she'd wipe the floor with
>him - but she won't beat him. And now she's got zero shot at
>it anyway.

- yeah but Biden barely knows history quotes and like to make up shyt

-I dont want to ever hear an adult tell a lil girl she can be President of the US; possibly student body president, president of a fortune 500 company, president of social gathering committee, but not on WASP land

I prefer Warren, but voted for Sanders today for the same reason.

>I was between her and Bernie. I'm of the opinion that a vote
>for Liz is a vote for Biden today so I said fuck that and
>voted Bernie. He's not a perfect candidate, and he'll probably
>lose (I've said that Trump's getting re-elected) but fuck
>Biden.


_______________________________
gamblers and masturbators.

http://twitter.com/urkelmoedee

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Return To Zero: A rap radio show hosted by mrhood75 (Spider Jerusalem) and me (UrkelMoeDee)
https://mixcloud.com

I wanted to keep another progressive voice in the primaries and thought/still think she brings good ideas to the table.

However, I almost immediately regretted the vote. If the "She's only sticking around to siphon votes from Sanders" stories are true. Then I'm going to be really annoyed.

Sanders is going to win Cali today easy regardless though.

>
>Sanders is going to win Cali today easy regardless though.

If Liz gets >15% of the vote she gets delegates. Early on in the race I'd say vote with your heart but given where we are today (where things are a lot closer to than end than most of us figured they'd be by now), had to go with the strategic vote.

When they moved Cali to this early in the cycle, I figured I wouldn't have to worry about shit like this. But since we've gone from like a dozen to 4 candidates in the space of a very, very loooooooonnnnnng 2 weeks or so, here we sit.

If I'd have voted on Sunday rather than Saturday, I would've voted differently.

Up until a few days ago, I was pretty firm on voting for Warren today. But given how quickly the delegate forecast shifted, I felt I had to vote for Sanders to do my part to ensure he gets as many delegates as possible.

>If Liz gets >15% of the vote she gets delegates. Early on in
>the race I'd say vote with your heart but given where we are
>today (where things are a lot closer to than end than most of
>us figured they'd be by now), had to go with the strategic
>vote.


_______________________________
gamblers and masturbators.

http://twitter.com/urkelmoedee

https://www.albumism.com/search?q=Marcus%20Willis

Return To Zero: A rap radio show hosted by mrhood75 (Spider Jerusalem) and me (UrkelMoeDee)
https://mixcloud.com

That’s weird.

Your vote could tip the scales bro.

We've got a Centrist and Center Right candidate remaining, I wanted to have multiple candidates that had left of center ideas espousing those ideas.

I've got my issues with Warren, but "She's an agent/planet/undercover centrist and Republican" isn't on that list.

If I'd voted 24 hours later, my vote would've been different.


>Your vote could tip the scales bro.

Now you're putting too much on it.

Comey? lol
Kristol? NeoCon Iraq war architect lmao
Tim Kaine/Terry McAullife? Clinton wing. check.
Debbie Wasserman-Schultz? Rigger of the 2016 primary (according to Elizabeth Warren) check.
Brennan? foreign policy establishment status quo holder. check.

I'm sure Hillary herself would be coming out to endorse him - but she's smarter than that. She knows it'll only help Sanders lol

-->

>Comey? lol

*carefully leans into microphone behind "West Wing" branded podium*

"How dare you, sir."

more crowded than I remember seeing it, and majority younger crowd with some older people mixed in

manbun next to me was going back and forth with the polling guy because he didn't want to register as a democrat. saying "I don't want to be part of a group". The guy was trying to explain to him that if he wanted to vote for pres in the democratic primary, he had to pick D today.

I'm not sure the conclusion but I'm 100% he was a Bernie guy

...when I went to vote early in Oakland. Dude ended up holding up the line until prompted to go and get a ballot or else people were going to start cutting ahead of him.

>manbun next to me was going back and forth with the polling
>guy because he didn't want to register as a democrat. saying
>"I don't want to be part of a group". The guy was trying to
>explain to him that if he wanted to vote for pres in the
>democratic primary, he had to pick D today.
>
>I'm not sure the conclusion but I'm 100% he was a Bernie guy

IDIOTS.

You can be registered as NPP (No Party Preference) and vote using an NPP-Democratic ballot.


_______________________________
gamblers and masturbators.

http://twitter.com/urkelmoedee

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Return To Zero: A rap radio show hosted by mrhood75 (Spider Jerusalem) and me (UrkelMoeDee)
https://mixcloud.com

i didn't get the whole conversation. i think the guy was averse to the word Democrat in any capacity, on some I'm free thinker and you will not define me shit.

>You can be registered as NPP (No Party Preference) and vote
>using an NPP-Democratic ballot.

https://i.redd.it/6eckjeqb6hk41.png

This is your guy?

Are you sure he's the safe choice?

Biden aint it. He's surging right now because he actually put up a W and Obama clearly made some calls for folks to drop out.

Oh and Bloomberg popped up and said "look how terrible it actually can be!"

But the idea of Biden is a lot more comforting than actual Joe. Because of shit like this.

Not only does he have 30+ years of baggage, but something is clearly not right with him.

Also, I personally think the best bet to win the white house these days is to run an outsider.

The moderate/Obama mantle should have gone to someone else.

I think the party is going to regret going all in on him so early- probably at all.

https://twitter.com/AbeFroman/status/1234711862760992769

I'm sorry, but same with Bernie. Bernie can't really effectively run as an outsider having been in Congress for 30 years.


And, fair or not, a lot of people (voters too) in the party do not like Bernie.

He's also old, and is starting to look tired AF.


The better progressive bet would have been for him to throw his movement's weight behind Warren or hell Tina Turner or someone.


Basically, right now I wish it was Castro or Booker or Kamala vs Warren or Turner or Gillum or someone like Ro Khanna or some shit.


Younger/more diverse blood with less baggage running on the same messages would make me feel a lot better.


I really wish both had sat out. Ego, stubbornness, and misplaced loyalty are going to sink the Dems again.

my ideal situation was bernie not running and backing someone younger (not even young, just...younger). i wasnt big on warren when she announced. she won me over. obviously that didnt happen with a lot of people, so far. if she had bernies backing from the jump? maybe that would change.

i feel like warren wouldnt had been the ideal pick for him, im not sure who would have been but i do think that would have been a better scenario.

same on the biden side but i dont even care to consider the options for him lol

2008 Obama = Mahomes
2020 Sanders = DONKEYS Peyton
2020 Biden = COWBOYS Testaverde
2020 Warren = Andy Dalton

*Even if Sanders somehow wins a plurality - he won't get the threshold majority - and ain't no way the Super Delegates going to let Sanders come for them as President.

Trump gotta be partying his ass off tonight plotting these next 4 years.

-->

in the real world.

i think the last 3 polls went from warren to bernie to biden.

when lefties like *us* start trending towards biden...you know his fortunes are changing.

than they actually are. I certainly did -- I didn't think there was a chance that Dems would think Joe Biden should represent the party v. Trump in *this* anti-establishment climate. We'll see if there was any wisdom in rallying behind Biden.

Those Boomers still are bodying the younger generations in turnout - and they aren't at all (nor will they ever be) ready for a progressive mandate.




-->

voters spoke pretty clearly.

>when lefties like *us* start trending towards biden...

Ha! That's a good one. Most of you guys aren't lefties, believe you me. I actually just come here to make my blood boil and see what the latest oppo on Bernie is. I was long ago shaken of my false belief that a hip hop message board would espouse the radical politics of the people we grew up on like Boots Riley, Chuck D and Killer Mike and instead cheer at stopping a movement endorsed by a whose who of virtually every activist group and progressive icon you can name.

maybe instead of excluding people yall deem insufficiently pure...yall can work on how to build consensus/bridges with other people who dont think exactly like you.

i mean...losing or tieing with joe biden on okp should be a wakeup call.

it aint eveyone else. its yall.

stay blessed.

gotta love these motherfuckers.

-->

My early prediction was older white folks and working class whites would flock to Biden

Didn’t happen in the first 2 states which was weird but I think it’s because everyone spends hella dollars in Iowa.

Biden looks like he has the juice.... and he’s basically run a shit campaign.

1. to beat a monster like Trump, who is an incumbent, who survived as a scandal he can spin as persecution, with a base that rightfully deserves all of the scolds and scorn that so-called "Bernie Bros" receive, will require massive turnout, massive discipline, and no voter left behind. this is already made difficult by the entrenchment of voter suppression and disenfranchisement put in place by the GOP after the Supreme Court frisbeed the Voting Rights Act, in reaction to Obama actually working his ass off to win in 2008. that's why you saw people waiting 7 hours to cast a vote.

2. there is a fundamental, substantive divide (and people don't wanna hear it, but Obama's admin has a lot to do with this) within the group that typically votes and would be convinced to vote Democratic. simply, it's this: people who are just OK with the President being a Democrat vs. people who would prefer that over the GOP hellions, but actually care about what happens afterward. bridging that gap is difficult enough, but then...

3. ...Joe Biden offers NO vision of the future, immediate or otherwise. he didn't even have a coherent message going into the SC primary. no one knows why he's running except he's gonna replace Trump. with regard to the divide in #2, that's fine with the "Get Trump Out" contingent, but the rest, who would be required to actually Get Trump Out? would be skeptical or worse, apathetic. Joe's record of shoddy bipartisanship, which would be known in the "we care" group, would not inspire.

to make matters worse, his public demeanor suggests he may not be up to snuff to actually make the kind of decisions that would change those people's minds.

4. Sanders has much of the "we care" group on lock, because he does offer a vision of the future and is speaking directly to the material needs of the people who support him. Including "Getting Donald Trump Out". The mass media tends to obscure that in favor of painting him as "selling socialism". surprisingly he has a HUGE contingency among Latino voters, where Biden is completely weak. Those numbers would be also needed to "Get Trump Out". the crossover if Biden is the nominee can't be confirmed to be 100%.

The Democratic decided to unite around the possibly worst candidate they had left out of their bag of tricks. Kamala Harris, who was weak in a number of different ways, would have least have had a "sound mind" on her side. Elizabeth Warren would have had "party-approved progressivism" on her side. Julian Castro would have inspired. Instead, the DNC boosted the most right wing candidates they could and settled on Biden immediately after South Carolina.

unless he avoids the spotlight or actually puts together a vision plan that HE INTENDS TO ENACT AS PRESIDENT....

it's gonna be a lot of "Sleepy Joe" jokes onward to Trump's reelection.

I understand what you’re saying, I keep going back to why trump tried to dig up dirt on Biden. There’s something trump fears. I also think discrepancies can be found in any candidates history, the difference is... Biden’s a likable dude and that counts! He’s not an off the cuff speaker so he may not be able to clearly articulate his vision but I believe he’ll surround himself with folks that can.

-->

-although sanders has yet to prove he can actually activate young voters into a huge voting block, he has unquestionably proved his message and outreach appealed to Latinos and Latinos seem more energized than ever, which will be huge in holding Colorado and Nevada and maybe even put Texas in play in the general.

-Clyburn put Joe Biden on his back and he owes the Majority Whip everything.

-amy and Pete are also owed a lot!

- next up on Tuesday is miss, Michigan, Idaho, Washington, Missouri, and North Dakota. If trend lines hold I think Biden will win Miss, Missouri for sure, the other four are up in the air, Biden is a completely different person and has a different appeal than HRC, I don’t think any of the states Bernie smashed in 16 will be givens in 2020

-Although I still think Liz would be the best president, I mourned her candidacy a few weeks ago after NH. I honestly don’t know what she is angling for now, the petty in me think she’s getting her revenge on sanders and the BBs lol. She definitely played spoiler to him a bit last nite, although I maintain all her voters wouldn’t go to Bernie

-all those Black mayors like London breed (San Fran went to Bernie) and vi lyles (Charlotte went to Biden) have egg on their face now after supporting Bloomberg (who just dropped), Listen to your community and constituents and govern yourselves accordingly.

I think if Warren had dropped out 2 days early he would have lost the early warren voters and the "coalition" voters but I think he would have stolen at least TX and Mass for sure...

the other 3 states that split progressive vote would have still probably given him more delegates if not 1st place

i don't think Warren was being petty...i think her pragmatism just ended up being misguided and she got used

Klo and Pete got the memo (Pete would have hurt biden in those non-southern states had he stayed) but Liz hung in there...

i'm not mad at her for dropping out but i warned folks as soon Klo and Pete dropped out that she should have right behind them...she had already realized it would take a brokered convention...

i think she

a.) isn't quite as progressive as she initially pivoted (which is why she pivoted center a few times)

b.) thought she would get a bigger chunk of the progressive voters than she did (i did too until the center sliding)

shit, i'd still prefer her overall. we disagree on the bernie bros shade but only bc it's levels to the bernie bros...i like that his platform has so far been able to pull in people i like and dislike bc that's the broadness needed for a progressive. it's beyond time for the torch to be passed but i think more people are gonna go blue no matter what more than last time around

It's a gang beat-down at this point.

-->

everyone else is jumping out and Warren just chillin’

1) Biden names a woman as his running mate.

2) Trump responds by dropping Pence and naming Nikki Haley as his running mate, using botched Coronavirus preparedness as an excuse.

would forgive him? lol


All the shit he's done, dropping Pence might be the one thing they won't accept.


Then again, its Trump. He could probably sit on Pence's face on live TV and his R approval would go up.

Not saying u specifically but she was being called all kinds of snakes and phonies and being ridiculed and attacked by sanders supporters

Just read she takes super pac money, she abandoned m4a. And she didn't back Bernie in 2016.
I thought she was more progressive for some reason lol. She's more aligned with Biden. What a piece of rat shit!

>Just read she takes super pac money, she abandoned m4a. And
>she didn't back Bernie in 2016.
>I thought she was more progressive for some reason lol. She's
>more aligned with Biden. What a piece of rat shit!

I wouldn't go so far as to call her names - but Warren has never been an ally of Sanders. She is far more likely to endorse Biden and curry favor with the party - just like she did in 2016.


-->

nobody likes Bernie lol

Absolutely.

While he remains one of the most popular Senators/politicians in American politics - he has a lot of enemies (in both parties).

-->

Hopefully regardless you help to eject trump!

Aint that some shit.


the Bernie Bro myth just won't die....

these are the consequences.

Look, I understand the complaint that Warren was exposed to a lot of nastiness - but the only time I've seen anybody *on this forum* use specifically rough misogynistic language toward her, it's people who want to throw some sneerquotes on it in order to put it in the mouth of Sanders' fans.

Nobody *here* is doing that except people who want to play ventriloquist to score a point, and it's kind of fucked up.

To calling her a rat piece of shit in two replies . My comment was just a play on that. The mysogony debate is a whole separate thing

Sanders even know what Okp is, Im talking all his online attack dogs who said some of the most vile things about warren. She owes Bernie nothing.

Message boards are relics of communicating online, but they still offer some benefits over twitter in the sense that we can at least pretend to know each other here. There are folks on this board that I've been arguing with over various things for two decades now. We don't KNOW each other, but we know each other.

When you trot out language like that in reference to Sanders' supporters, charity insists that you clarify who you're talking about because it feels like you're taking a lot of liberty with that open-ness. This board is pleasant. Shit gets heated once and awhile, but the personal attacks that people so commonly attribute to our current political culture don't really occur here that often. That's a good thing, and I think it's better to keep it that way.

>The mysogony debate is a
>whole separate thing

You're the one who started us down that road, so finish it off. Who here is calling Elizabeth Warren a bitch except for you?

even after I clarified

>You're the one who started us down that road, so finish it
>off. Who here is calling Elizabeth Warren a bitch except for
>you?
>

What you've done here is uncharitable, and I don't think your reasoning tracks.

I don't think he was saying Bernie fans were calling EW a bitch

Shit, i thought cnn did him dirty in the whole "a woman can't win" thing

Not sure what else to tell you

Truthfully, the comparison you're making is always going to make me grind my teeth. But that's an argument about jokecraft and actually anything important. So I'm sorry for getting you wrong.

all good, man

>Look, I understand the complaint that Warren was exposed to a
>lot of nastiness - but the only time I've seen anybody *on
>this forum* use specifically rough misogynistic language
>toward her, it's people who want to throw some sneerquotes on
>it in order to put it in the mouth of Sanders' fans.
>
>Nobody *here* is doing that except people who want to play
>ventriloquist to score a point, and it's kind of fucked up.


-->

It was Fuck EW.

Then, please EW please endorse Bernie. We need you.

Which turns into, oh wait, it doesn't look like she will? Will fuck EW!!!


That's just not how a party works.

Bernie Bros are Will Smith screaming he doesn't need Ben Vereen and then crying at the end wondering why Ben Vereen didn't love him.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

not completely but she pulled a nice lil chunk of progressives early and the BBs were gonna be salty bc

a.) they didn't believe her (her pivots towards the center as the campaign went on kinda proved them right)

b.) even as the more appealing, competent, and historical candidate...it wasn't going to be enough to pull his loyalists

so yea, they considered her a threat...which she ended up being lol

this warren vs bernie supporters shit feels like a spider man meme

yes, by far...the passionate BBs are 5 much but that's why i wanted Warren to drop out earlier...the writing was on the wall weeks ago and as soon as i saw it...i went from Warren to Bernie...he has had the momentum and if she was as progressive as she had initially portrayed...she probably would have dropped out after not placing in the top 2 before super tuesday...mayor pete outperformed her and bowed out

folks shitting on the supporters in general kills me...bc you need those toxic motherfuckers to stay passionate unfortunately...having them passionate about a progressive platform is huge and i feel like it's about to be wasted momentum

bc even if Bernie had somehow become the nom and got jack shit done...they would have dug their feet in deeper for the next in line

they need to find the next in line A-fucking-SAP though bc i cant take too much more of this shit...about to go overseas and teach english and never come back lol

I wasn't paying attention at all throughout the day because I remember so clearly how unimportant the early poll results and exit polls were, or at least how much the information seemed like it fluctuated just to keep people glued to the TV. Stepped out to watch the late NBA game with a couple friends and the other TV had CNN on, this was 9/9:30, and I was totally shocked not just that Biden was winning but by how much in so many states.

One of the guys turned to me shaking his head, took a shot of tequila, rested his forearms on the bar and mumbled, "I live in a fuckin' bubble, man." This is a guy who in the past four years I've known him has helped open a family business, got engaged to his boyfriend in a state that only just legalized such things five years ago, bought a house...he's been nothing but a beacon of light and progress for me and he looked like his cat was one of the victims in that Netflix documentary.

From the very first debate, for me, it didn't matter whether I liked Biden in past election cycles or as Vice President or what any of his policies were. That was the very first non-fringe candidate in my thirty years and four Presidential elections that I saw on TV and thought, "that dude sounds mentally ill." I just couldn't understand how anyone would vote for the guy that was standing on that stage in 2020, and every following debate just furthered that.

Biden lived long enough to become the villain for a lot of people last night. I'm thoroughly discouraged. If any debates even happen, it's going to be two old grumps trying to make America great again while their brains melt out of their ears, while everyone so concerned about the moderate vote that flipped for Trump in 2016 coming back for Biden in 2020 are going to continue to miss that Biden is boring and Trump is not. THAT was what made Sanders or Warren the right candidates for the job, because they are different degrees of not boring and more importantly want to talk about the future, not the past.

Oh well. We'll always have Hardball. © Chris Matthews


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

to vote for Biden, Warren and Sanders never stood a chance.

Progressives don’t have a chance down south.

a lot of them were lucky if they even finished top 5.

thats like a lot of bernie endorsed candidates in 2018 who werent running in already super blue districts.

obama alumni eating heartily tho.

the pundits got it right this time around. bernie would have been a disaster in downballot races.

texas is only 5 seats away from a majority (D)emocratic congressional house delegation.

texas is only 9 seats away from a majority (D)emocratic state house delegation (there are 9 current red state house districts that went for beto too).

even if dems dont win texas in the presidential race...these are significant ways in which texas could still turn blue.

bernie would have thrown *all* of that away.

to become president.

https://twitter.com/jmartNYT/status/1235305551879458817
-----
Perhaps the biggest non-presidential moment of the 2020 cycle is upon is.

And after months of saying he would not run, @GovernorBullock is poised to run against @SteveDaines

w @CatieEdmondson
-----


things might be looking good on the senate side.

https://twitter.com/briantylercohen/status/1235313256497139722
-----
With the news that Bullock is poised to announce a MT Senate run, Dems CAN flip the Senate:

AZ
McSally (R) 39%
Kelly (D) 46%

ME
Collins (R) 42%
Gideon (D) 43%

NC
Tillis (R) 43%
Cunningham (D) 48%

CO
Gardner (R) 40%
Hickenlooper (D) 53%

Plus: Ernst in IA and 2(!) seats in GA
-----

Brown. Gritty midwesterners but (relatively) progressive and really in tune with their states. Hope he can win, we need as many irons on the fire to try to get the senate

at least that's the conclusion i've gotten from that post
(and its getting too wieldy to come back to)
its really wierd to observe
i will say this; i believe biden supporters are making calculated decisions - and it has nothing to do with their political leanings neither does it mean that they love biden
and its wierd that instead of acknowledging this some of us are choosing to disparage/dismiss them
and for some of us.. it's the fact that we think that while bernie talks a good game -he doesn't have the mettle to walk the walk
and wouldnt get any of this done
i've felt this way since 2016- when i briefly flirted with him
nothing he's done since has changed my opinion (and nothing in his past -to me- warrants these accolades either)
-which is why i was really excited to support warren - i see her as a progressive that would put in the work
she just cant campaign for shit, lol


also... some of us have *yet* to cast our votes
i mean, we are 1/3 of the way and its really ironical that.. we are being told to make inroads to bernie
when his supporters could be making inroads to people to vote *for* him
I don't see the game as being called yet - shit seems to change over night.
but ... that's not the response, lol!
i think this explains why there has been a failure to build a grand coalition, tbh. this acting like politics is a zero sum game

anyway. y'all have at it.

all i know is im voting for the dem nominee in nov 2020. i really dont care who it is at this point. that's how much of a threat i see another 45 term to be. you should too.

Wholeheartedly the democratic process. when Bernie was racking up wins, I was disappointed and worried but I kept saying so be it and to the victor goes to the spoils, that was the will of the voters in those states. I wanted to be convinced he could really win, but he couldn’t and didn’t. I wanted to be convinced he could expand his support, expand the electorate, but he didn’t.

With so many ppl running this cycle the process and voting had to be respected. Has to be respected

is i don't think the moderates will really be able to get anything done either bc while we rationalize...hey a moderate can reach across the aisle...those days are either long gone or at least on a very long hiatus

it kinda makes it all feel pointless bc there's no winning strategy with any of the available candidates

i liked warren a lot bc she seemed to split the difference but i think she might have overplayed the progressive card early and that's probably where her campaign weakness was at...political pragmatism is still wildly unpopular lol

Remember when a 78y.o. grandpa from Vermont, who wanted everyone to do a little better...was your biggest fear

An entire vol 2 will be written between now and the convention

Really wish we could have an honest conversation.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3yLJ5NHARMk

or the Soviet Union stuff



the GOP would've honed in on that socialism stuff and play on voter fears when they hear that word

it gets underdiscussed but one of the most impactful events before super tuesday were bernies 60 minutes comments on cuba and resurfaced old comments about the soviet union.

that terrified a lot of dem voters when they thought about him leading the entire party into a general election with shit like that playing in ads.

it was a major reason that turnout was so amplified and strong *against* bernie (60% of voters who sat out 2016 primary went for biden).

if it had that effect on dems then imagine what it would do to repubs.

Bern is carrying the LatinX vote in the primary...right?

socialism doesn't resonate in 2020 like some are indicating

Some rape fantasy essay from 40 years ago

..etc...

We still haven't had an honest discussion about Biden's record

and if he wins the nomination, he will be facing Trumpster

...not the self proclaimed billionare reality tv host...

a Trumpster with all of the resources of the POTUS

We haven't even touched the appearance of impropriety IRT his son's employment with Barisma

NOBODY has even brought up Hunter's investments in China's facial recognition program that has been used to target Uhygurs

there's also Biden's obvious cognitive decline, that nobody in the D primary wants to talk about

like I said, a 78y.o. grandpa from vermont who wants everybody to do a little better is your biggest fear?

>Bern is carrying the LatinX vote in the primary...right?
>
>socialism doesn't resonate in 2020 like some are indicating
>



sure on Twitter we've moved past hating the socialist commies or seeing them as our enemy



Can that be said for them old folks who... you know, vote?

not that they matter but yeah
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/democratic_delegate_count.html

Delegate count:
Biden: 566
Sanders: 501
Warren: 61
Bloomberg: 53
Buttigieg: 26
Klobuchar: 7
Gabbard: 1

I wasn't going to do popular vote but thats actually interesting too. warren has roughly half the votes of bernie but 12% the delegates.
Biden: 4,848,085
Sanders: 3,931,887
Warren: 1,760,064
Bloomberg: 1,696,387
Buttigieg: 595,847
Klobuchar: 379,043

like its a reminder to everyone that you are still in the race but you aint doing shit.

i wont even argue against it. i was just surprised by the disparity. with that said, bloomberg basically got the same total of votes as warren and he didnt participate in the first 4 states.

i guess a 2% bump could possibly mean tripling your delegate count.

if either biden or bernie can earn warrens supporters that could be the difference.

.

on morning joe.

prolly puts a dent in michigan for bernie. especially if more of the state party joins her. if he loses michigan then its a wrap.

she won her election by 10 pts and swept in a wave of women at the top of michigan govt.

one of the biggest success stories of 2018.

she brought up what obamacare/medicaid expansion did for michigan and what obama did for the auto industry.

these are the types of real world people and conditions that bernie and progressives dismiss.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/05/us/politics/elizabeth-warren-drops-out.html

i already voted for her so i dont really have a say going forward but im rooting for bernie going forward. even if biden picks her as VP. im not saying that is likely or that he should pick her as VP but i know that has been floated around. i do think it would make more sense for biden to pick her as VP than it would for bernie.


im legit sad, not shocked at all but its funny how these old white people can get in our feels.

Secretary of Commerce or Treasury?

You're absolutely right. It's better for her to hold her Senate spot so the Dems to make a move to take both houses of Congress.

.

she can still push policy and agenda there. lead committees if not the senate.

On some "okay motherfuckers I'll endorse Joe, but time for Chuck to step down"?


I'd take that.

congressional majority leaders tend to end up being really unpopular.

if she could control the agenda from behind the throne then that would be cool.

could resign before the filing deadline in their states or with the special election lead time minimum and then a dem could just run in the primary/general or special.

there was also a possibility of the state legislature calling a special session and passing a law with a veto proof majority (dems have one in mass but im not sure about vt) to require the gov to fill the vacancy with a member of the same party.

I'm starting to think she somehow caused his heart attack...

you would have had a much better week.


Here's something that will get you- you guys completely fucked up by attacking WARREN more than BIDEN.


Hell, I think the left would have been much, much, much smarter to rally around Warren since she is, you know, actually a Democrat

but even setting that aside


Maybe ya'll shouldn't have spent so much time trying to take down the other progressive in the race?

Hell, isn't attacking Warren the reason you even signed up for this site? It was like your first 30 posts.


LOL spoiler. The nerve of these women wanting to be president, am I right?

>Maybe ya'll shouldn't have spent so much time trying to take
>down the other progressive in the race?

Plot twist. She was not a progressive. I'm not going to post much on here anymore because it's not worth my time but policy, policy, policy, policy, policy, policy, policy, policy... that is what progressivism is about and if Warren cared about policy and progressivism then after Nevada when it was obvious that the best progressive chance was with Bernie she should have dropped out and endorsed Bernie for the sake of policy. Or at least after SC, and definitely after centrist Voltron formed on Monday. I guarantee Bernie would have won Maine, Mass, Minnesota, maybe Texas and Oklahoma and ran up the score in Cali (yes I know Bloomberg helped Biden too but that is not the point). Thus Bernie would have been way ahead in delegates after Tuesday and the race would be 100% different now and the progressive causes she pretended to champion would have had a HUGE possibility of happening. Don't tell me she didn't know this.

Also I GUARANTEE that if the roles were reversed and Bernie was down so much after Nevada he would have dropped out and endorsed her and it would have been the right thing to do because he and his supporters care more about policy than anything else and Warren would have been better for that than at least Joe or Pete.

You have attacked Warren at every turn simply because she wasn't Bernie.

You guys lacked the vision to rally around the one progressive who actually had a chance to get things accomplished within the party, and thus, change the party.

Hell, you weren't even smart enough to not attack her, let alone embrace her.

I've been telling you for months- attack Biden more, not Warren.


Well, buddy, Warren is gone now what?

Just in case, here are a few reminders-



"Bernie is doing better with black voters!" he didn't

"The youth will turn out in yuuuge numbers!" they didn't

"He will flip Trump voters!" he couldn't even flip Yang or Pete voters in significant numbers

"His base is growing!" he lost states he won last time

"he'll turn out new voters" maybe he did, but not enough to win

"he's leading a huge movement" it wasn't big enough, sadly

"he'll lead his movement to pass M4A" he couldn't out hustle Tom Perez

I asked you specifically if you were sweating the rumors that Obama would work to stop Bernie's nom and you downplayed it. This overconfidence in the movement really fucking backfired and here we are.


Cmon man, cut the shit. You guys were wrong. It sucks really bad, but you were wrong.




The problem with making predictions is that when they don't come true, you have to be a grown ass adult and say "damn, I was wrong"

It can be a challenge, but its personal growth.

Yall were big wrong. It sucks.


So, as progressives, lets run a candidate next time who is smart enough to

- not call hims or herself a socialist

- not to yell "revolution!"

- don't scare the boomers, who actually vote

etc, etc?

And, if we are in a situation where there are two progressives running, maybe you register for a forum and attack the leading centrist...


Run the same platform with a smoother candidate, different language, and less of the bro bullshit it goes much, much better.


And then, maybe we actually have a chance of getting things accomplished, rather than pointing fingers...

Uppity woman down, their lather for HRC since she wasn’t in it had to be satisfied some way

just cmon.

https://twitter.com/RuralChrisLee/status/1235188758783369218
-----
What’s notable is that Biden won in many of the rural, white working class communities that used to be part of the old Democratic coalition — the Iron Range, Southwest VA, Alabama’s Tennessee Valley, Northeast Arkansas, Little Dixie OK, and Middle TN.

https://t.co/l6rW19jqkT
-----

interesting to see real world voter behavior counter perceptions.

hes drawing back a lot of the ancestral white dems who have abandoned the party. not only during/after the trump election but during the obama era. hes essentially putting together the obama coalition and clinton coalition.

we are seeing why he was basically the only national big name dem who could go stump for candidates in liberal areas and in places like north dakota.

if youre winning black voters, suburban voters, women, *and* ancestral dems in rural and small town areas...its hard to argue against your electability.

It seems inevitable that he will lock this up...

BUT

I want Bernie somewhere. I would love for him to get a cabinet position that would allow him to enact at least some of his policies/ideas in education, housing or healthcare...

Make young Pete Sec of State and prime him for 2024

Stacey Abrams as VP

Sanders for Commerce Sec.

Warren for VP or Treasury

Pete - New cabinet for LGBTQ+ rights or education

I dunno, spit balling

But sure why we would need him up in the white house. Same for Warren really. Those 70+ should continue fighting the good fight were they are.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

That was the appeal of Joe Biden long before the Clinton and Obama years.

Its the image where a lot of the jokes against him help him. If people go back to thinking of him as this guy:

https://politics.theonion.com/shirtless-biden-washes-trans-am-in-white-house-driveway-1819570732



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

I’ll comment more in a sec.

I voted for her because I wanted her and her ideas in the mix for as long as possible. I wouldn’t have minded if she stuck it out to the end; I feel that way about every candidate, including Bloomberg.

But it’s clear after Tuesday that the entire conversation surrounding her moving forward wasn’t going to be her ideas but when she’s going to drop out and who she’s going to endorse. So given that, her decision is understandable.

I don’t know who she’s going to endorse or if she’s going to endorse anyone at all. I do know I’d she makes a decision it’s not going to be based on any behavior of Twitter followers on either side. It’s a narrative, but I these guys really don’t care.

Site still acting weird with an iPhone. .

She could endorse Bernie, but I don't think that really gets Bernie voters and Bernie is still likely to lose.

Or she can endorse Biden and shred her progressive Bonafides.

Or she can sit it out like Obama until the nominee is chosen and get called all sorts of names.


I'd go third option if I were her.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

would backfire and reinforce the bernie bro stereotype.

but the college educated pragmatic progressives that backed people like warren and p booty aint losing one bit of sleep over her not backing sanders.

But options 2 or 3 will result in the same backlash

I mean yeah maybe after a nominee is picked but yeah she ain’t picking either one anytime soon.

With Biden's blessing she endorses Bernie and when Bernie loses Biden will make a public plea for her to join him under his big tent and gives her a big job in the Whitehouse and she agrees and now Biden has a true progressive under his tent without having to deal with Bernie.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

seems a lot of people are waiting until the last couple of days to make up their mind. i think that would have more effect than doing so today right? it would have the most effect a couple days within the next election date?

bernie is about to be a 2 time primary loser.

hillary at least made the general.

(yes im being paid by the dnc)

for grassroots, progressive activism. It's impossible to lose when you're playing a different ballgame than the status quo democrats with their corporate donations and centrist policies.

Newsflash my guy: we don't give a fuck if he loses the next 6 primaries. We're not bending the knee to the establishment. It's non-negotiable.

I mean you don't care, you're happy to lose as long as you can say everything's someone else's fault.

and if everyone loses, and trump kills a few more inmates and immigrants then you can say "not on me" and keep walking.


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

i just think yall dont give enough credit to 'establishment' democrats who consistently work hard to build broad diverse coalitions from a patchwork of motley cultural/social/ideological factions.

its a lot harder than yelling at the chorus from the balcony.

i feel like that is still minimizing though lol

i mean, sure...

he's a yeller but he's been consistently yelling the same shit lol

coalition building is tough but at some point when you have the machine behind you...you are supposed to put down the outsider coup

i think what he's accomplished is harder bc it's largely been centered around him rather than the well oiled machine

the foundation of that coalition building has way sturdier roots

vibes?

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

this was before warren and bloomberg pulled out. the percentage of their voters going to biden vs those going to bernie might make these numbers even worse. biden already gained 27(!) pts in about a week.

https://twitter.com/PpollingNumbers/status/1235578202753466368
-----
#New #Florida @StPetePolls
(Change since Feb 26):

Biden 61% (+27)
Bloomberg 14% (-11)
Sanders 12% (-1)
Warren 5% (-2)

(Poll Conducted Mar 4)
-----

Just so the point is made more clear that he is not the preferred candidate of the people. Maybe (wishful thinking), that would get him to drop his crusade for now.

voters send a clear message that you cant run a grievance campaign trashing the party with a bunch of eliminationist rhetoric and expect to win/lead it.

plus the sooner we end the primary...the sooner we focus them crosshairs on buttmouth.

His daily bullshit and mess is getting drowned out by our nom contest.


*BBs no need to reply...again...that u won’t vote for Biden, we all know where u stand, loud and clear

https://twitter.com/kasie/status/1235629326562885635
-----
“Every time I get introduced as the most powerful woman, I almost cry, because I wish it was not true,” @SpeakerPelosi says when asked about @ewarren. Says she wishes there were a woman president
-----

In history as the most powerful and most effective Speaker ever

even tho she promised to step down by 2022...i wouldnt mind her staying on cuz i cant see anyone waiting in the wings that can carry her jock strap.

Has any "moderate" candidate, or Biden in particular, stated that they intend to start reforming the US's downright shitty electoral system (primaries and all)? Or any other acknowledgement that things need change at a structural level?

Because if not, I'm not surprised that the realpolitik of electability and "blue no matter who" falls on deaf ears with some of Sanders' supporters: to them it probably seems like winning doesn't matter anyways if it's not with a truly progressive candidate.

I'd probably still vote for whoever ends up with the Dem nomination myself if I were a US citizen, but then again I haven't had a lifetime of disappointment with a two-party shit show. I get why some people would bitterly opt to stay home come election day, and let the country burn down in the hopes of waking up the moderates from their cozy slumber.
Painful thing about that stance is that it's probably easier to take it if you aren't affected by Trump's dismantling of the USA as much as most, which is why I would still vote, but maybe the responsibility is also on the moderate candidates to let these disillusioned people know that they're heard?

Maybe I've just missed those sounds in the dog-race frenzy that is the US media (and this board, holy shit).

BTW, I'd have liked to see pragmatic&progressive Warren get the nomination and presidency myself; Bernie is probably my second choice even if I think he might not survive a whole term, just because he's the only one left who stands for something that has made Europe a relatively nice place to live for the past half century; and I'd still breathe a sigh of relief if Biden gets to be president over Orangina McFuckface.

/rant

>Has any "moderate" candidate, or Biden in particular, stated
>that they intend to start reforming the US's downright shitty
>electoral system (primaries and all)? Or any other
>acknowledgement that things need change at a structural
>level?

Unfortunately the problems in the electoral system stem from the Constitution itself, and it's essentially impossible to change the US constitution without an overwhelming electoral majority (2/3rds supermajority in the House and Senate -- at a time when Democrats are desperately clawing to briefly reach 1/2 in the senate and command a majority in the House that's contingent on members who can't afford to push for anything particularly radical -- and then ratification by three quarters of the states, when most progressives are so concentrated in individual cities that they can confidently drive state-level movements in maybe ten states).

It says explicitly in the Constitution that the president is elected by the "electors." It also says explicitly that the number of electors for each state is equal to the sum of its number of House members (related to population) and senators. It also explicitly says in the Constitution that the number of senators for each state is 2. So if one party has electoral strength in small states (the Republicans, in this case), they automatically get a massive advantage in congressional representation and presidential politics. If they'd considered when they wrote the document that we'd eventually end up with a state like Wyoming (about 240,000 constituents per senator as of 2018 according to Google) and a state like California (about 20 million constituents per senator), presumably they would have thought better of giving each state equal power in the Senate.

If the problem is that progressives don't have power in enough states, and the only way to fix that, electorally, presumes progressives have built an electoral majority in three quarters of the states, then this is not the kind of problem that we should talk about fixing electorally. We certainly can't pretend a change can come from big crowds at campaign appearances if those crowds never seem to correlate with votes.

As for primaries: it's a similar problem but an entirely different mechanism. Thankfully the way primaries work is not encoded in the constitution, which (at least in its original formulation) presumed there would be no primaries because there would be no parties. Some aspects of how primaries work (delegate apportioning, how the votes work at the convention, where the convention will be held, what's in the party "platform") are determined by the parties themselves and can be changed at any time. The 2016 Sanders campaign was able to push through some changes on the antequated "superdelegate" rules, for example. But the importance of superdelegates is vastly overrated. The only way they could ever come into play (now officially, though in practice before as well) is in a case where the primary race is razor thin in a way that we've never seen, even in 2016 or 2020.

The more significant problems with the primaries (voter suppression, caucuses, antiquated technology, the bizarre state-by-state calendar that automatically disenfranchises most of the country) are caused by decisions of the state legislatures. And again, Republicans are in charge of most states. Even on things that could conceivably find bipartisan support (single-day national primary, ranked-choice voting), there isn't much agreement even within the party whether these changes would make things better or worse.

The very existence of a primary race is of questionable value for political representation. The importance of primaries has grown in the last 50 years as people have naturally assumed more power for the voters is "better." But a really straightforward game-theory argument can be made (from the fact that the primary electorates are self-selected specifically to be unrepresentative of the general electorate) that the growth of the primary race has been central to the rise of the hyperpartisanship that has made it impossible for Democrats to accomplish anything in red states.



>Because if not, I'm not surprised that the realpolitik of
>electability and "blue no matter who" falls on deaf ears with
>some of Sanders' supporters: to them it probably seems like
>winning doesn't matter anyways if it's not with a truly
>progressive candidate.

If the candidates were actually in any way similar, then maybe. But when our choice is between a continuation of the Obama legacy and a continuation of the ongoing Trump catastrophe, then I disagree (and it sounds like you do, too, as do the vast majority of Sanders supporters).

Every Democrat is a progressive. That's why we're Democrats. Every Democrat wants more progressive representation. The problem is that the barriers to reform are a lot bigger than people at a campaign rally want to believe and the game is a lot longer than any single presidency.

Really thorough answer too!

Looks like it's another combo of outdated constitution and shitty ass republicans blocking the way forward, then.

I do hope this democratic infighting ceases soon, and that the moderate wing of the party recognizes that there's more and more room for truly progressive policies.

In any case, good luck with the dumpster fire!

looking like 2016 all over again.

first edmund pettus bridge and now this.

https://twitter.com/GeoffRBennett/status/1235629982723997697
-----
NEWS: Bernie Sanders is cancelling his scheduled speech in Jackson, Mississippi this Friday for stops in Michigan, a Sanders aide tells @GaryGrumbach. His speech in Jackson was aimed at reaching out to the state's African-American voters.
-----

nice obama ad tho.

Time, he’s giving up on the Black community all together but I’m not even mad, he’s focusing on where he thinks he can win. But it definitely and COMPLETELY blows up any narrative that he was trying to reach out to Black voters and have the “broadest most diverse” base ever

he skipping black sites now too?

Maybe he went to cool down somewhere

https://twitter.com/nickadamsweb/status/1235228469648388097

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

Saying never warren as Bernie’s vp and how she wasn’t a progressive. These dudes are pathetic

damn that dude is worse off than i thought.

i feel like he's in a lose-lose with this bc even when he made the right moves...the needle never seems to budge on that front

i feel like he'd get accused of pandering too...

he does well with the slice of the demo he was doing well with to begin with...i feel like he's been lowkey cutting his losses on that front

winning would probably be the only cure for that

Don’t black people still live in the rust belt?

than just winning local black voters.

at the most theyre about genuine respect for the experience and contributions of black people in america.

at the least theyre about building a relationship with a core constituency of the democratic party.

p booty was at the edmund pettus bridge ceremony. that nigga got like 1-2% of the black vote in nv and sc and wasnt even in the race at that point.

I ain’t never going to Mississippi and I’m Black.

Only went to Alabama because i had to because my wife’s parents lived there when we first met.

Bernie has to focus on a few states where he can get the most delegates.

and it ain’t Bama and Mississippi

then Black folk in Detroit and NY vote against Bern. A bad look can hurt Bern plus he has time to go to Mississippi.

>Bernie has to focus on a few states where he can get the most
>delegates.
>
>and it ain’t Bama and Mississippi
>
>

.

>looking like 2016 all over again.
>
>first edmund pettus bridge and now this.
>
>https://twitter.com/GeoffRBennett/status/1235629982723997697
>-----
>NEWS: Bernie Sanders is cancelling his scheduled speech in
>Jackson, Mississippi this Friday for stops in Michigan, a
>Sanders aide tells @GaryGrumbach. His speech in Jackson was
>aimed at reaching out to the state's African-American voters.
>-----
>
>nice obama ad tho.


Can't half ass it.

>nice obama ad tho.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ESXfTxKUwAE-4_P?format=jpg&name=large

half of the poll was taken before south carolina. and bloomberg and warren were still listed as choices.

might be a lot worse by tuesday.

LOL

https://twitter.com/GeoffRBennett/status/1235729043301036032

this scammer motherfucker that y'all think is "nice" is asking mr stop-and-frisk for advice

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

so people can see the difference between real life and discord chat rooms.

people really out here thinking the joe rogan experience has political power.

nah just an easy grift audience to co-opt.

Will she do it?

During her address today, Warren spoke about her two-cent wealth tax on the top tenth of 1%, universal child-care, student debt-relief, medicare-for-all, and enhancing social security for millions of aging Americans. These policies are shared - 100% - with Bernard Sanders.

Joe Biden is for *none* of those policy proposals.

To be clear: Warren doesn't owe anybody anything - however - she has a history of making principled stands and speaking truth to power. Whether it was battling Joe "Credit Card Company" Biden himself when she first entered the Senate to stand up for consumer protection, or challenging Tim Geithner on bailing out the banks (aka Corporate Socialism) in the aftermath of the Great Recession - or even standing up to Obama with a principled stand against TPP and trade policies that exploit global workers - Warren has time and time again waged into the big fights that very few had the courage to take on.

She now has the ability to endorse a candidate in Bernie Sanders - who is not just the only Presidential candidate - but the only colleague in the Senate most closely aligned with her bold, structural change policy prescriptions.

And she might make the finest Sec. of Treasury in the history of the United States.

The data shows that ~40% of Warren supporters prefer Sanders as their 2nd choice. That number might very well increase should Warren endorse him - and it could neutralize the moderate gang consolidation efforts against Sanders, giving new life to the Progressive policies that Warren has stated are popular with the American people --- and she's right.
-->

if Biden crushes Sanders in the next 2 votes.

smh

>Will she do it?
>
>During her address today, Warren spoke about her two-cent
>wealth tax on the top tenth of 1%, universal child-care,
>student debt-relief, medicare-for-all, and enhancing social
>security for millions of aging Americans. These policies are
>shared - 100% - with Bernard Sanders.
>
>Joe Biden is for *none* of those policy proposals.
>
>To be clear: Warren doesn't owe anybody anything - however -
>she has a history of making principled stands and speaking
>truth to power. Whether it was battling Joe "Credit Card
>Company" Biden himself when she first entered the Senate to
>stand up for consumer protection, or challenging Tim Geithner
>on bailing out the banks (aka Corporate Socialism) in the
>aftermath of the Great Recession - or even standing up to
>Obama with a principled stand against TPP and trade policies
>that exploit global workers - Warren has time and time again
>waged into the big fights that very few had the courage to
>take on.
>
>She now has the ability to endorse a candidate in Bernie
>Sanders - who is not just the only Presidential candidate -
>but the only colleague in the Senate most closely aligned with
>her bold, structural change policy prescriptions.
>
>And she might make the finest Sec. of Treasury in the history
>of the United States.
>
>The data shows that ~40% of Warren supporters prefer Sanders
>as their 2nd choice. That number might very well increase
>should Warren endorse him - and it could neutralize the
>moderate gang consolidation efforts against Sanders, giving
>new life to the Progressive policies that Warren has stated
>are popular with the American people --- and she's right.
>-->

but have fun.

-->

focus on beating Biden tried to tell you once.

https://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13344033&mesg_id=13344033&listing_type=search#13362571

you look pathetic when you make up excuses to avoid the obvious.

Gosh that was such a great point, Lurkmode!

-->

and it's true.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWBgqVXHbrY

and if he doesn't win, it's her fault he didn't.


it's her fault her campaign didn't get more voters, and her fault his didn't get more voters.




www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

what do 60 percent prefer?


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

>what do 60 percent prefer?

The remainder was distributed to Buttigieg, Klobuchar, Bloomberg & Biden when the initial poll was taken. We'll see what the most recent polling data says soon.


-->

Falling polling numbers weekly. I wish she knew or cared enough about you to tell you fuck you directly.

Or at least laugh at your desperation like I am.

As I said in another thread she owes u and urs ZERO. And weren’t u one of the ones saying she wasn’t even a true progressive

Now *she* needs to consolidate the progressive votes lol

Here’s what I’ll end with. Even if she did endorse Bernie, he STILL wouldn’t win. It’s fucking over, breath it in, smell it for a bit, taste it a bit, and fully accept his defeat.

Thanks 😊

The last time you cried about this you couldn't find one instance of name-calling or denigration - as you claimed.

All you can point to is actual poll numbers which showed her falling rapidly. Newsflash: that's not speaking negatively on a candidate - that's reporting what's actually happening.

>And
>weren’t u one of the ones saying she wasn’t even a true
>progressive

No. Never - as in not even once. Nor will you be able to find me saying that - because it's just something you've made it - because that's what you do.

-->

Just as delusional as you.

-->

U didn’t see it. U know good and got damn well u said , “oh wow you capping for a person who lied about her race” or something to that effect.

u posted and gloated weekly about her falling poll numbers and said that when she addressed Bernie saying she didn’t think a woman could win that she leaked it, it backfired badly, it was desperate due to her slide in ten polls etc.

STOP IT lol. I’m not doing anything extra to play with ur delusion and misery, go to the second page and find that Bernie warren post that u made, it’s all in there. Be honest and get some healing, ASAP lol

Fuck I gotta lie for, on a message board. Dumb ass

and failed to even find a single quote where I insulted her or called her names - because it didn't happen. I'm a huge fan of Warren and always have been -- probably have done more to support her than you ever have.

The only one hurling insults and calling people names here is you - and you're doing it in blatant sophomoric fashion.


-->

Post. Now why you would want to an endorsement from someone who “lied on a application to say they were an indigenous person” is beyond me

Don’t throw rocks and
Hide hands now

U were dancing all over warren collapse and challenging her credibility. Stay there. Stay in that Mindset. And stew

>Post. Now why you would want to an endorsement from someone
>who “lied on a application to say they were an indigenous
>person” is beyond me

I simply asked you a question as to whether you were cool with a white woman appropriating Indigenous culture to prop up her own privilege - and I stand by that question.

Nowhere did I say "why would you want an endorsement from someone who..."

lol you're sad and desperate with this. But now that you've been proven to be a flat out liar I'm good with engaging with you moving forward.

Enjoy.


-->

For why she did that, and she has unequivocally came out and said she was wrong for doing.

Why exactly did you ask me if I was ok with that? And why did u say it won’t be the first time she lied on paper work?

U were clearly insinuating she did something wrong and NOW you are asking her to endorse ur candidate? Why would u want an endorsement from someone like that

I guess u don’t have a problem with what she did either, so again I come back to asking why did your DUMB ass ask me that question?

Stop being dumb and fake

I don't entertain blatant liars and fake outrage.

-->

Where ur call warren’s tactics ugly and desperate too. These words are urs not mine. Ur mad, ur candidate won’t win, again, and now ur looking for anything to lash out.

I have zero to gain from “lying” about u lol. Da fuck are u lol?

as you purported.

And yes - it was a desperate move from her campaign to try and pull the "Sanders is a secret sexist" card as her poll numbers/standing was plummeting.

Sorry if your fragile sense of fairness is offended by that.

-->

When she confronted Bernie. Again stop playing dumb, u don’t have to have “called someone a name” to have completely shit on her and basically said she was fake and not credible

Yet this is who u begging for a endorsement from??????

Yeah u are done. Just like Liz said to Bernie u calling me a liar....wow ok, good luck, yeh next few weeks are going to be very rough for u, I’ll be there to shit on u every step of the way tho.

you're the one who cried about "name-calling" - and you can't find a singular instance of that - and instead have been flailing for weeks and all you can find are benign quotes analyzing the primary and the debates lol.

I actually might consider continuing to engage just to be entertained. Please - try another one.


-->

Desperate. You did. And now you want her endorsement. I thought u were done with Blatant liars like myself. It’s ok. If ur not done, Bernie for sure is. And now we have a fighting chance of winning in November.

☺️😊

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

*licks fingertip* if we just carry the 1 and unplug the modem...

that fit what he believes.

He still thinks the bullshit he's been screaming is correct. Not only was he wrong, but it isn't even a debate anymore.


Shit isn't subjective, there is objective proof he was wrong.


He really think this is a Jordan vs Bron argument.


Dude probably makes an agenda with his wife over the laundry and each week reviews his weekly agenda scorecard with her.

2 straight years of most of the party choosing someone else but apparently bernies the strongest candidate.

she owes neither sanders nor biden a damn thing

and at this point in time - i feel that the party needs its voters to figure out which of the two candidates it prefers
this is an excellent opportunity for *both* candidates to prove their mettle
in my opinion that means to show that a) they are the best at driving people to the polls -this will be important in november and b) they can consolidate support for the down-ballot races - this is critical if we are going to go anywhere with those 400 bills the grim reaper is sitting on
that to me is what's at stake
if both candidates feel they have what it takes to be the best at both
then i want to see this play out in this competition - i want them to prove themselves and they have just been given a platform to do that.
i also need warren's plans in consideration- she gains nothing from selecting someone who *might* lose the nomination
and everything from waiting to align with whomever finally wins
i want her to have that leverage- and i have enough faith in her ability to push the eventual candidate (and hopefully president) and senate colleagues - in *her* direction- after all, she has the blueprints

also, the assumption that warren voters automatically transfer to sanders is based on polling that is currently outdated
(and even then there is a significant chunk of her supporters who prefer alternatives to sanders)
i also think it ignores why many of us support warren over sanders
(and i can speak for myself here)
because its the difference between ideologue (sanders) and pragmatism (warren) when it comes to progressive politics
(and yes, *both* warren and sanders are progressives - up until... well *today* - she was apparently not progressive for many sanders voters (lol!))
and we picked the candidate we felt had the better chance (or probability) of seeing their policies come to fruition
this was based on who is willing to do the work, and coral the votes
sanders hasn't proven able to do this thus far- neither in congress - and now.... not even in these streets.
so he needs to prove himself

if we feel that biden is weak (and he is, yes) - then it should be a walk in the park for those that feel sanders is the stronger candidate, no?

and endorses Biden once he wins the nomination.




-->

people were telling yall to stop acting like assholes and to reach out to more people and other communities. that your behavior was toxic even to people who actually like bernie (like a lot of us on here do/did).

and yall just held up your lil token black girls and your poll numbers and turned your nose up to it all.

warren supporters hate yall just as much as everyone else does...if not more.

millions of highly educated white women ready to cupid shuffle on bernies grave.

they aint going anywhere near that lil bile factory yall got going on over there. could you imagine them having to answer for the behavior of bernie supporters for the rest of his campaign?

other candidates had no problem putting their personal credibility on the line and telling their supporters to give biden a look because they know their supporters arent personally disgusted by the biden camp. warren could actually lose the respect of her supporters for tryna force the red rose purity brigade on them.

david sirota, brie joy, susan sarandon, michael moore, young turks, some of you nut ass niggas on here, etc have nobody to blame but themselves for this sinking ship.

had a spark when you started but now you just garbage (c) hov

Brace urselves tho, TUESDAY will be more bad news ☹️.

Crazy how a phony/snake/traitor/etc is now the kingmaker for them.

He knows it isn't going to change things. He's just setting up another excuse/someone to blame.

https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1235677617749188608

And this doesn't even account for Warren supporters who prefer Bernie, but doubt his chances to win and/or are disgusted by his supporters.

Stop setting up your next excuse. Stop making Liz the villain.


You were wrong Vex.


No youth surge. Little improvement with black voters. Movement not big enough to beat Tom Perez, let alone Trump.

Just stop.


Take a beat. Take a break from this and think about what could have been done better.

Better/softer language. Better outreach. Less rabid followers.

Maybe spend more time attacking Biden than Warren.

Etc.


Its over man. And there is no conspiracy. No boogie man. No spoiler.


I think we could have had a progressive candidate...yall just fucked it up.

But either way, at least admit you were wrong and take the Ls like a grown ass man.


>Will she do it?
>
>During her address today, Warren spoke about her two-cent
>wealth tax on the top tenth of 1%, universal child-care,
>student debt-relief, medicare-for-all, and enhancing social
>security for millions of aging Americans. These policies are
>shared - 100% - with Bernard Sanders.
>
>Joe Biden is for *none* of those policy proposals.
>
>To be clear: Warren doesn't owe anybody anything - however -
>she has a history of making principled stands and speaking
>truth to power. Whether it was battling Joe "Credit Card
>Company" Biden himself when she first entered the Senate to
>stand up for consumer protection, or challenging Tim Geithner
>on bailing out the banks (aka Corporate Socialism) in the
>aftermath of the Great Recession - or even standing up to
>Obama with a principled stand against TPP and trade policies
>that exploit global workers - Warren has time and time again
>waged into the big fights that very few had the courage to
>take on.
>
>She now has the ability to endorse a candidate in Bernie
>Sanders - who is not just the only Presidential candidate -
>but the only colleague in the Senate most closely aligned with
>her bold, structural change policy prescriptions.
>
>And she might make the finest Sec. of Treasury in the history
>of the United States.
>
>The data shows that ~40% of Warren supporters prefer Sanders
>as their 2nd choice. That number might very well increase
>should Warren endorse him - and it could neutralize the
>moderate gang consolidation efforts against Sanders, giving
>new life to the Progressive policies that Warren has stated
>are popular with the American people --- and she's right.
>-->

So Sanders has an all-so-slight lead with Warren supporters based on this piece of new data. Good to know - so we should adjust the conversation based on this - like adults.

So if she endorses - that would actually have a real impact.

Before Buttigieg endorsed Sanders - the data actually showed that his supporters preferred Sanders as their 2nd choice at a pretty significant clip. His endorsement changed those numbers quite markedly.

-->

the night before the michigan primary.

https://twitter.com/brianstelter/status/1235944140225069057
-----
Just announced: Fox News "will host its second town hall with 2020 Democratic presidential candidate Senator Bernie Sanders (I-VT) on Monday, March 9th in Detroit, Michigan."
-----

those internal polls must be in shambles. this is a desperation play to get that trump supporter crossover vote in the open primary.

this really must be a do or die situation for them.

for the campaign this cycle

I was really impressed with how he handled it

Did you see it?

maybe washington and oregon? az and nm? MAYBE. these are just guesses based on proximity to cali and the latinx vote in az and nm.

they need to be doing all they can to compete everywhere they can. latest count has biden at 638 delegates to bernies 563. not out of reach but bernie will need to get some decent wins in the midwest and any state he can. i would definitely expect him to spend a lot of time in MI, WI, PA, OH. needs to do it in every platform that he can.

>the night before the michigan primary.
>
>https://twitter.com/brianstelter/status/1235944140225069057
>-----
>Just announced: Fox News "will host its second town hall with
>2020 Democratic presidential candidate Senator Bernie Sanders
>(I-VT) on Monday, March 9th in Detroit, Michigan."
>-----
>
>those internal polls must be in shambles. this is a
>desperation play to get that trump supporter crossover vote in
>the open primary.
>
>this really must be a do or die situation for them.

The Obama ad, now Fox. A landslide might be coming.

The king maker better do something fast and save him.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-primary-forecast/?ex_cid=rrpromo

A Kingmaker will save Bernie and give him the nomination.

Even if Warren endorses - and turns the tides just slightly enough to help Sanders win a plurality - there's no chance in hell that the party votes to nominate Sanders on the 2nd ballot..

-->

Asking for warren to play “kingmaker” (the patriarchy of that statement is galling by the way, asking the last viable woman to exit the race to anoint the men that beat her)

Oh lemme guess u didn’t say that *either*

Ur the worst, actually reaction and bignick are pretty bad too. It’s definitely a culture with
The Bernie bros and y’all are getting called out everywhere for ur fuckery and wining.

It’s definitely a culture with
>The Bernie bros and y’all are getting called out everywhere
>for ur fuckery and wining.

Dude literally went from kingmaker to plurality in like an hour.

nor are you even trying to actually have a discussion lol.

I called this primary for Biden already - right after Super Tuesday. If you read what I said there (and here) - I'm saying that *even if* Sanders earns a plurality lead going into the convention - he still won't get the nomination because of the dynamics at play at the convention.

However - if he wins a plurality of delegates that's still a really big deal - and yes - Warren could shift the dynamic just enough to change course. Biden holds a small delegate lead right now - y'all acting like this is a blowout.

and lol @ "Kingmaker" being an offensive word now. The fake woke virtue signaling has me dying.


-->

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

*shakes magic 8ball again*

Want brownie points becuz he got a plurality (so y’all can rage into overdrive how the DNC stole the nom “again” )

Bernie has transformed the party, and in my opinion in mostly positive ways, but he doesn’t have a broad appeal and burn down the house rhetoric isn’t the way to win.

He still hasn’t grasp that in 5 years. To his detriment.

Bernie won’t get a plurality so this is moot. Again all, maybe not even half of lizzys supporters would go to Bernie. I know I certainly won’t, I don’t think he could win the general, millions of others agree.

I’m not sure sen warren thinks he can win the election

It's because that's what I think is going to happen.

>Bernie has transformed the party, and in my opinion in mostly
>positive ways, but he doesn’t have a broad appeal and burn
>down the house rhetoric isn’t the way to win.

I think he's transformed American politics in some very real ways - but I don't know about "transforming the party" -- the party has largely resisted the Sanders influence at every turn - and has resumed to normalcy by throwing its weight behind Biden. You don't have a meaningful change of leadership within the party - yet - but if they're smart, they will now actually take succession planning seriously instead of trying to diminish the impact of young Dems like AOC.



-->

>It's because that's what I think is going to happen.

Right. Its going to happen because thats what the voters want.

You disagree. I do too. But saying it now isn't meaningful. The writing on the wall.

Declaring Bernie won't win at this point is as thoughtful as me saying Rihanna won't text me this weekend.

>
>>Bernie has transformed the party, and in my opinion in
>mostly
>>positive ways, but he doesn’t have a broad appeal and burn
>>down the house rhetoric isn’t the way to win.
>
>I think he's transformed American politics in some very real
>ways - but I don't know about "transforming the party" -- the
>party has largely resisted the Sanders influence at every turn
>- and has resumed to normalcy by throwing its weight behind
>Biden. You don't have a meaningful change of leadership
>within the party - yet - but if they're smart, they will now
>actually take succession planning seriously instead of trying
>to diminish the impact of young Dems like AOC.
>

Cmon man. Sanders got the party to seriously debate universal healthcare, forced actual debate on foreign interference (though very little, but still), $15 minimum wage, etc.

He himself didn't take over the party because he and his people didn't run a very good campaign.

I think Bernie is a good dude, he's just not a very good politician.

Get a better politician to be the face of this movement and things will go better.

(No, not Tulsi. Stop it.)

he's not going to bring in independents in the general election after trump and the gop hit him with alllll of his so very many negatives. I love the idea of a return to liberal democracy but it's not enough when all of his various negatives come out from voting for the iraq war, to being a groping grandpa, to burisma, to promoting the crime bill and opposing desegregation....shit just will not bring in the independent voters because the negative campaigning will be everywhere

America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.

https://twitter.com/cameron_easley/status/1235988181654343680
-----
NEW national poll from @MorningConsult:

Biden: 54%
Sanders: 38%
Gabbard: 2%
Other: 6%

https://t.co/cvCi76565A

Among 1,390 Dem primary voters; MoE +/- 3. Conducted Thursday after Warren suspended her campaign.
-----

the moderate and progressive wings consolidated...sanders right around that 30 something percent base.

like just 2 weeks ago people were talking about bernie shutting biden out of delegates in ca...him winning tx...and him changing his schedule to go to ma and put the nail in warrens coffin.

now dude might start wrapping his campaign up with a loss in michigan.

i dont think he wants to stick around to be humiliated in az, fl, ga, etc.

Y’all don’t even see it tho

He ain’t even y’all’s man... lol

Soar?

Pours some out for Case One

Dude predicted Kamala, Beto, Warren & Biden would all win at various points.

That's like me saying "hey I think either the Clippers, Celtics, Lakers or Bucks will win the title!"

-->

Not sure what all the gloating is about

but they sure seem like they won something.

It’s moreso finally seeing Bernie lose that makes them feel like winners.

you'd think they just won something.

-->

being everything from not truly progressive to straight up right wing traitors for supporting someone other than Sanders- or hell, even doubting his chances.

And, personally? I'm pissed because I think we had a real chance at a progressive candidate facing a very weak incumbent. Sanders just isn't a good politician.

Even now we're accused of being centrists and Biden bros etc?

I'm just as pissed/scared as anyone that its Biden.

I point out some questions that the left should ask themselves after this L, and I get called right wing. FOH


plus, we've all taken Ls at some point. All been wrong. Me, you, everyone.


Just want a couple of these dudes to just admit they were wrong.


And again, take some fucking lessons from this.


Not to mention, you calling folks Biden Bros here makes as much sense as folks calling you and I Trump bros when we were posting about Hillary's failures delivering Trump.

Personally? I'm not making these posts cuz I'm happy, I'm making them because I'm pissed.

Just like Hillary helped deliver Trump, the 'movement' helped deliver Biden.

And just like Hillary stans, they refuse to take a beat and consider that shit. Its all excuses and finger pointing.

Everyone claims they want a progressive but this last Tuesday sure tells me otherwise.

and it’s not just Bernie. People saying they wanted to vote Warren but...

This is the time to vote progressive if you really want progressive representation. Most of us are going to vote for the Dem in the GE.

I’ve just never been a fan of the “Bros made me do it” excuse

That’s silly. Wild seeing how this place has changed

and you know from jump I thought it was Biden’s to lose... but the nigga really has me worried when he’s in the mic. So people better get ready for this shit show.

There’s another one that follows me around and replies agreeing or disagreeing with me that Ignore too.

Vex is such a delusional POS I just can’t resist but those other two are just out of their depth and I don’t bother.

especially for folks who dedicated to their lives to this



Or even for those of us who've been civically engaged before it was cool to take a selfie with your I Voted sticker

You wouldn't see any post about Warren the King maker

https://youtu.be/MVHJrz6Sk7U?t=112

these people werent prepared for what hit em.

now obama is the homie and the revolution is in retirement homes.

https://twitter.com/karavoght/status/1235897561212387328
-----
NEW: @BernieSanders’ campaign invested in the under-35 set. But the youth-led revolution never came.

Now, the campaign focuses on the most reliable voting bloc: Seniors.

Up next: elderly-centric events and an emphasis on Sanders’ SS/Medicare record.

https://t.co/hG83G5QDEE
-----

A backpedaling campaign strategy.

>these people werent prepared for what hit em.
>

We've been going hard on the 3 or 4 Bros around here because of the outlandish shit they've said/claimed/denied but I think more needs to be said about the missteps of the Sanders campaign.

They very clearly knew that the establishment was against them.
Hell it was their motto. How were they not more prepared for candidates dropping out and endorsing a moderate?

If you spend 5 years thinking the establishment doesn't want you, how are you not more ready for them to unite?

How did they not make more efforts with older voters?

How did they still do so poorly with black voters?

How did it just occur to them that Obama is popular with Dems?

How did they not put more into SC?


They tried to run up the score in MA. How many folks (rightfully, myself included) were pissed Hillary spent so much money in LA County rather than Wisconsin? Same fucking concept.


And again, they missed a huge fucking opportunity with the Warren campaign.

I don't think the majority of Bernie supporters are bros. Not even a plurality (word to Vex)

But the bros do make the optics terrible. They should have stomped that shit down a year ago.


Like you said, how were they not prepared?

Meant they had some kind of mandate. Wonder why they didn’t pay attention that most of the faces were still White. The circus on showtime and alex Wagner sure did, she point it out that at his SC there was nary a Black face, and the cameras showed that too.

They also didn’t think how practical and discerning the dem
Electorate at large was, that we could just be one over by passioned rhetoric without any details

Like Biden said, ppl don’t want a revolution, people want results

If having another four years of trump wasn’t on the line, I Almost wish he would get the nom just so it can be crystal clear they he can’t win.

If he couldn’t win Minnesota and Massachusetts against Joe Biden, why on earth should any reasonable person think he could win it all against trump.

this all makes sense.

loyalists and ideologues over vets and tacticians.

-->

I would hope you wouldn't need to be lectured on how the Black vote isn't monolithic.

Sanders (once again) won the Black vote under 30 on Super Tuesday - and he won almost 30% of all Black voters 30-45 - while Biden got ~60% of Black voters over 50 - and that demographic came out the heaviest on Super Tuesday.

But these were also Deep Southern states where the electorate (whether Dem or Republican) leans the most conservative of any region in the country. Will be interesting to see if these trends continue in Michigan.

-->

biden won black people by *30* more points than sanders won latinos (+41 to +9).

yet yall dismiss/disassemble the one and praise the other.

hence why his campaign finds itself in the position its in.

please keep doing what youre doing.

>yet yall dismiss/disassemble the one and praise the other.

who is 'y'all'? Won't find me dismissing any of those demographics - unless you consider referring to older voters as "older" to be dismissive and disrespectful.

Please do keep caping for a man who would be regarded accurately as the person he is without Obama's brand: an average Joe who kicked it with segregationists and caved to Republicans and special interests group.


-->

as a prop in ads.

https://twitter.com/KHiveQueenB/status/1235434472247406593

yeah i think im done for the day.

this is rough.

have a nice weekend yall.

and also how the game has to be played if you play to win.


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

https://twitter.com/pyrojoe121/status/1235949813914570753

lol

Around a candidate who isn’t divisive and alienating

https://twitter.com/Redistrict/status/1236150155868545025

not too long ago people were predicting a scenario where bernie beat biden by 20+% in ca and biden missed the 15% delegate threshold.

his lead has already dwindled to about 7% and could drop below 5%.

right now ca has only given bernie a net 30ish delegate lead in a state with over 400 total delegates.

thats not good in a state with a very liberal dem primary electorate.

once again (as in other states) bernie banked most of the early votes pre biden surge and biden dominated later voters and election day.

bernie was projected to win because everyone else was dividing up the vote. i expected for bernie at some point to start hitting over 40% support in states if the rest of the vote stayed divided. once it came down to bernie vs biden (and warren/bloomberg) that had to change. no one would had predicted that pete and amy supporters would go to bernie so it makes sense they would boost biden.

i guess the bernie campaign expected the field to stay divided longer and didnt have a plan for them coming together. not sure there was a viable plan available to overcome them uniting.

i think bernies best hope going into super tuesday was a good chunk of voters going to warren instead of biden but that obviously didnt happen.

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1236100026683797505
-----
Breaking News: President Trump ousted Mick Mulvaney, his acting White House chief of staff. Rep. Mark Meadows will replace him.

https://t.co/lGqvONxRtL
-----

Why anyone who wants to a future in national GOP politics would ever take a job in the trump admin now is beyond me.

I mean Nikki Haley coulda been president one day. Priebus, tillerson, sessions fighting for his old seat, bannon, Bolton, tom price, kelly, all chewed up and spit out by trump and basically fading into nothing

I see why they are all so scared of him. I really want to see the tatters that will be the GOP post trump

Time for the Bernie supporters to step up for Tulsi

Gabbard calls on Biden, Sanders to help put her on debate stage


https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/486430-gabbard-calls-on-biden-sanders-to-help-put-her-on-debate-stage

Rep. Tulsi Gabbard (D-Hawaii) is calling on former Vice President Joe Biden and Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) to urge the Democratic National Committee (DNC) to allow her on stage for the next primary debate after newly released qualifications for the event barred her from participating.

“.@JoeBiden @BernieSanders I’m sure you would agree that our Democratic nominee should be a person who will stand up for what is right. So I ask that you have the courage to do that now in the face of the DNC's effort to keep me from participating in the debates. #LetTulsiDebate,” Gabbard tweeted late Friday night.

To keep me off the stage, the DNC again arbitrarily changed the debate qualifications. Previously they changed the qualifications in the OPPOSITE direction so Bloomberg could debate. I ask that you stand w/ me against the DNC’s transparent effort to exclude me from the debates.

— Tulsi Gabbard (@TulsiGabbard) March 7, 2020
ADVERTISEMENT
The direct call to Biden and Sanders, the two heavyweights remaining in the 2020 primary race, comes after the DNC said candidates must have garnered at least 20 percent of the delegates awarded thus far to make the debate stage in Phoenix on March 15.

Gabbard, who has refused to drop her longshot White House bid despite dismal results in the first several nominating states, has garnered just two of the 1,385 delegates awarded thus far, falling way below the threshold. She has not qualified for a debate since November under previous standards from the DNC.

Six states will hold primaries and caucuses Tuesday, though it is virtually impossible that Gabbard will net enough delegates from the contests to hit the 20 percent mark.


The Hawaii lawmaker has repeatedly railed against the DNC, accusing it at times of seeking to kneecap her campaign. She specifically cited a rule change last month regarding the polling qualifications for debates that allowed former New York City mayor Michael Bloomberg to appear on stage twice before he dropped out of the race.

“To keep me off the stage, the DNC again arbitrarily changed the debate qualifications,” she tweeted. “Previously they changed the qualifications in the OPPOSITE direction so Bloomberg could debate. I ask that you stand w/ me against the DNC’s transparent effort to exclude me from the debates.”

The Hawaii Democrat, an Iraq War veteran, has centered her longshot White House bid around reducing America’s military entanglements abroad, though has caught flak over a 2017 meeting with Syrian leader Bashar al-Assad and past positions opposed to LGBTQ rights.

Shouldn't be rewarded for staying in after people 20 times more viable than you have dropped out.

No one would EVER drop out.

this might be over tomorrow.

1 of the top 10 blackest mid-or-major cities in the country.

largely white crowd shows up
https://twitter.com/chrisjollyhale/status/1236440817692221440

even worse...
https://twitter.com/abbydphillip/status/1236451397652144128
-----
Sanders just finished his speech in Flint and as far as I can tell, it was a shorter version of his stump speech. He did not "directly address the AfAm community and make the case for why black voters should support him over Vice President Biden" as his campaign said he would.
-----

all jokes aside...this is genuinely sad to watch unfold.

https://twitter.com/dantoujours/status/1236500649103286272

https://twitter.com/rubycramer/status/1236468038897217536
-----
Spokesman @cascamike says Sanders had a speech prepared specifically on race & Biden to deliver tonight -- worked on it on the plane to Michigan tonight -- but after speaking with the panelists backstage including Dr. West decided stick to his usual stump & a panel discussion.
-----

i wonder if his speech was just talking about him winning young black voters under 30 and calling older black voters low info and out of touch. and him saying black voters in the south dont even really matter since democrats wont win those states anyway. seems to be an effective strategy for his surrogates and supporters.

bernie teacher coalition:
https://twitter.com/_ericblanc/status/1236664941022674944

https://twitter.com/AP_Politics/status/1236346242692759553
-----
Democratic turnout in the presidential primaries has risen over 2016 levels, in some cases exceeding recent high water marks reached in 2008. Much of that increase has come from suburban areas, and much of it has helped Joe Biden.

https://t.co/pl7IQQfqih
-----

*all* of the population growth in this country is happening in urban/suburban areas. rural areas are losing population.

the potential for 2020 to cement the realignment of well educated and white collar suburbs away from trump/repubs (which keyed a lot of the (D)emocratic gains in 2018) is at a much higher likelihood with a moderate like biden at the top of the ticket. it will do wonders for down ballot races in those areas and put states like nc, fl, nc, ga, and tx in play.

if the suburbs leave the republican party for good...thats game over.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-primary-elections/calendar
-----
March 10
--
Idaho (20)
Michigan (125)
Mississippi (36)
Missouri (68)
North Dakota (14)
Washington (89)

March 17
--
Arizona (67)
Florida (219)
Illinois (155)
Ohio (136)

but he definitely has to keep Michigan respectable
M

the type to dominate primaries in those midwest rural states.

bernie will prolly win washington by a good margin since its pretty liberal.

wouldnt be surprised if he got swept everywhere else.

mind you...a lot of those smaller states he won in 2016 were caucus states and now run primaries. so that advantage is gone for him.

before March 17th. Damn

he might not be mathematically/technically eliminated but everyone can start ignoring him and pivoting to the general then lol.

i do wanna see how early he drops out tho. part of me says his ego wont let him admit defeat til later. and part of me says his ego doesnt want everyone to see the bloodbath waiting for him on march 17.

i know he was polling badly vs clinton but still won but eh i dont expect that to happen tomorrow.

bernie has already said he will support and campaign for biden if he wins. he even said he wont contest if biden goes into the convention with only a plurality.

i know some people are saying the dem party doesnt need the left but i do think its important that they take steps to bring them in. <45 is definitely more left leaning and will quickly become the majority that will actually vote.

yikes.

if bernie aint killing it out there...

his only hope is that the polls are wrong, if anything it seems polls have been underestimating joe recently.

Democrats are closing ranks to get this primary done and pivot on to the general

I also saw the unc Unc’a event in Jackson Mississippi has Vivica fox opening for him lol. Go Biden lol

the establishment is becoming the deep state of the left. just some faceless boogeyman you can blame your failures on and claim anyone against you is a part of.

https://twitter.com/ABCPolitics/status/1236632485611667456
-----
Sen. Bernie Sanders on Super Tuesday results: "One of the things I was kind of not surprised by was the power of the establishment to force Amy Klobuchar, who had worked so hard, Pete Buttigieg who had really worked extremely hard as well out of the race."

https://t.co/FMsEFyFDY3
-----

dude knows his only path to victory was a split field and he is mad as fuck everyone else figured that out lol.

i cant imagine why anyone wouldnt wanna join this movement.

https://twitter.com/theashleyray/status/1236519899024863232
-----
Elizabeth Warren going on SNL instead of doing the bare minimum to help fight for a progressive candidate against a man she has said is dangerous is all i needed to see to know her movement was never really about progress and is about her as a brand
-----

theres a whole crazy thread under that. i dont know if the delusion is a generational thing or what.

https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1236533635290890240

she been thinking for herself a lil too much lately.

i wonder how long before these people call her the establishment.

Those folks are miserable

that skit was great though.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/617/650/91a.jpg

clearly folks forgot about this: https://youtu.be/yL2dGTDQXVo?t=131

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/08/politics/jesse-jackson-bernie-sanders-endorsement/index.html

that shit is crazy to me

like.,.having a bunch of people you don't like in the voting bloc is bad apparently lol

everyone acting like "the bernie or bust bros didn't learn anything from 2016" as if the moderate wing did lol

If they had...they would have just said...shit, we might have to merge and just resist him when it comes to legislation time

cause what you have left is fucking Biden

a motherfucker who you can't tell if his gaffes are due to his under-reported and mysteriously intermittent stutter or senility

both these niggas losing bc we can never seem to get out of our own way

>everyone acting like "the bernie or bust bros didn't learn
>anything from 2016" as if the moderate wing did lol
>
>If they had...they would have just said...shit, we might have
>to merge and just resist him when it comes to legislation
>time
>
>cause what you have left is fucking Biden
>
>a motherfucker who you can't tell if his gaffes are due to his
>under-reported and mysteriously intermittent stutter or
>senility
>
>both these niggas losing bc we can never seem to get out of
>our own way


-->

this place is bizarro world

national and in states like michigan.

im not even gonna post em. im sure people already get the picture.

but its clear that even with consolidation on both moderate and progressive wings...he has a 30 something percent ceiling.

if he catches an L tomorrow (loses michigan)...then im not even gonna post about him or his folks anymore.

im focusing on the general and beating trump.

>
>if he catches an L tomorrow (loses michigan)...then im not
>even gonna post about him or his folks anymore.
>
>im focusing on the general and beating trump.


My inner petty runs pretty deep and this is Okp but we’ll see lol

women of color always gotta correct a white mans mistakes lol

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1237007982786945025
-----
(video)

Rep. @AOC: "In order for us to win, we have to grow. We must be inclusive, we must being more people into this movement. We must shed the unnecessary clothes of cynicism and exclusion and we must turn towards an embracing posture where all people are welcome."
-----

whatever support she loses from the zealots...she will gain from the mainstream party imo.

and it will be from the same people who love her now.

Too radical, too progressive... wait 4 more years.

she definitely has the right hating her. she came in as full progressive but she keeps finding ways to appeal to more people. it seems she recognizes the game and is finding her way to play it without getting played.

she isn’t really doing anything out of the ordinary tho

Everyone is going to try and unify to defeat Trump.

Even Bernie.

Never saw that video discussed on here and thought it was worth talking about. Wasn't trolling either, been here since '04 I just usually lurk. Not too surprised though, that video is being censored all over the internet. An explanation would be nice so I can know for the future.

>been here since
>'04 I just usually lurk.

Huge spike in longtime Berniebro lurkers coming out of the woodworks.

Ignore my nearly 3,000 posts in 16 years with maybe 2-3 posts about Bernie. Maybe lurkers are coming out of the woodwork because they see that OKP used to once be a place of young progressives in support of the disenfranchised and they're surprised to see it's become a place of middle aged moderates celebrating when a senile and rapey establishment candidate who's never done a thing for the disenfranchised is about to win the nomination.

Shame they deleted it though, I was in the middle of replying to you how the video was never discussed (only stories on him creeping on senators' wives, not their children) and ask you what you meant here:

https://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13166067

when you said Biden is the "OG, GOAT creep. In all the best ways". Wasn't sure what that meant.

>Maybe lurkers are coming out of the woodwork
>because they see that OKP used to once be a place of young
>progressives in support of the disenfranchised and they're
>surprised to see it's become a place of middle aged moderates
>celebrating when a senile and rapey establishment candidate
>who's never done a thing for the disenfranchised is about to
>win the nomination.

>>it's become a place of middle aged
>moderates
>>celebrating when a senile and rapey establishment candidate
>>who's never done a thing for the disenfranchised is about to
>>win the nomination.

... go off.

the obama coalition.

as evidenced by the election results.

we just havent been youngturksified into demonizing everyone who doesnt adhere to our perfect checklist of policy stances.

its kinda funny how the puritan left accuses the same folks of both being secret republicans and also being paid off by the dnc lol.

if shit like that starts making sense in your head...time to get a new twitter timeline.

But I'll take my L there for sure either way. Bad look on my part.

Re: the meat of your post tho, while I agree he's creepy and inappropriate and borderline, I think "rapey" may be overstating it a bit (but could be wrong) in that, has he ever actually been accused of any full on sexual misconduct ? Beyond just being a little creepy and in womens' personal space more than he should be ?

The latter is still not good, I'm not defending it - but it's certainly a different level than what Trump and others have been accused of in this era.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/29/politics/joe-biden-allegation-lucy-flores/index.html

Former Nevada politician alleges Joe Biden kissed the back of her head in 2014, made her feel 'uneasy, gross, and confused'

>https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/29/politics/joe-biden-allegation-lucy-flores/index.html
>
>Former Nevada politician alleges Joe Biden kissed the back of
>her head in 2014, made her feel 'uneasy, gross, and confused'

if you only used the second link that thread could have survived.


>Never saw that video discussed on here and thought it was
>worth talking about. Wasn't trolling either, been here since
>'04 I just usually lurk. Not too surprised though, that video
>is being censored all over the internet. An explanation would
>be nice so I can know for the future.

thought it was just another verbal gaffe, not an edited one. that was my bad.

I guess I'll leave the video of Biden inappropriately touching children in this thread, since nobody talked about it and people focused on the first point or talked about other incidents of Biden touching grown women, not children.

because something being a Trump/TYT/Breitbart talking point doesn't mean liberals should be able to dismiss it as such. it's still a disturbing video that democrats need to consider.

https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1237027220440223744
-----
#National GE:
Biden 48% (+6)
Trump 42%

@Rasmussen_Poll 3/5-8
-----

https://media.giphy.com/media/Ou18ZgE49Fss0/giphy.gif

I only have a (slight) interest in state by state polls. High overall favorablilty means nothing if the right people dislike you

>https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1237027220440223744
>-----
>#National GE:
>Biden 48% (+6)
>Trump 42%
>
>@Rasmussen_Poll 3/5-8
>-----

Trump is gone.

Assuming the coronavirus outbreak passes without massive casualties (as we all hope it does), and the stock market panic doesn't trigger a recession (and if it's the kind of recession that looks like it's brewing right now, I certainly hope it doesn't come to pass), then today might be the worst it gets for Trump.

If the outbreak fades (which it kinda sounds like it might finally be doing in China), then Trump gets six months to crow about how he acted decisively to stop the crisis. It'll be bullshit, but that's the power of incumbency.

https://twitter.com/michpoligal/status/1237028625519689728
-----
latest absentee ballot totals for Michigan: 970,290 requested, 712,851 returned compared to 2016 when 496,054 were requested and 398,043 at the same point.
-----

yeah thats a wrap for bernie.

those aint excited college kids.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

Low youth turnout, HOORAY

Segregation, endorsed by Kamala
3M deportations, endorsed by Beto
Don’t ask don’t tell, endorsed by Pete

WTF

SMH@these posts getting spammed

Guess we’re not going to have an honest conversation

Have fun storming the castle (c)

>Low youth turnout, HOORAY
>
>Segregation, endorsed by Kamala
>3M deportations, endorsed by Beto
>Don’t ask don’t tell, endorsed by Pete
>
>WTF
>
>SMH@these posts getting spammed
>
>Guess we’re not going to have an honest conversation
>
>Have fun storming the castle (c)


Did the Bernie supporters on here try to have an honest conversation ?

apparently a lot of us were receiving checks.

lol

You guys didn’t give a hoot about us warren supporters when u were gleefully posting about her tanking poll numbers and how she really shot herself in the foot and yes some of you said point blank she wasn’t even a progressive.

What’s been posted in here for the most part is analysis and reaction to Bernie’s flailing campaign and polls.

Now speaking for myself, I do think many of u are assholes and I’m glad ur being taken to task and clowned. Ive said many times y’all are way more problematic than Bernie, in fact Bernie is ok with me, I just didn’t think he could win and that he had a ceiling and didn’t really build a “broad and diverse coalition”

But please don’t mistake *some* of us clowning y’all as being anti working people and families etc. that’s just flailing and emotional. And nonsense, especially considering most of you don’t know a penny about our own personal backgrounds or where we come from

Okp has always had snark, so the pearl clutching now that Bernie is losing is ridiculous. Biden will be a fine President, he wasn’t my first choice, wasn’t my second, but I think of who remains he has the best chance of unifying the party and beating trump.

I expect that a lot of progressive proposals will be included and enacted in a Biden presidency.

And if Bernie has now stated several times he will support Biden if he wins the nom, the fuck y’all so mad about lol

*all* of our favorite candidates failed to beat biden.

but only one candidates supporters are throwing a fit over it.

and people are partying over it lmaoooooo.

that lets you know how reprehensible and universally disliked that candidates supporters made themselves.

As the most vile and repulsive and existing in an echo chamber supporters out there (well next to the MAGAs, but what horrible company to be in)

This has been highlighted all over. He’s had to (sometimes reluctantly) address his vile supporters several times (no other candidate has had that task)

So as is human nature, it is good and gratifying when assholes get what’s coming to them, ppl may have not been so happy to throw the crash and Bern (hehehe) in their faces had they not been so rabid.

The funny thing is, just like in 16, they will still be mad when he has to officially endorse Biden

>The funny thing is, just like in 16, they will still be mad
>when he has to officially endorse Biden

after all the conspiracies, calling biden corrupt, etc...it all ends with him having to kiss the ring and rationalize it all to his followers so they can join him in supporting biden.

it makes bernie look like a fraud, another member of the establishment, etc cuz its a complete about face from all of the shit he was talking in the primary.

He won the nom (“if he wins the nom”) he would have wanted the full support of the dem establishment behind him, in fact would have expected it.

No one else running took such an antagonistic position against the very party they were trying to lead (well tulsi but it’s tulsi)

I always said I would have loved to see what would have happened if the never trumpers had ran a candidate in 2016 and Bernie had still run after losing the dem nominee. But neither happened becuz as easy as it is to bash the two major parties in this country, no one wants to walk away from that structure, no one is brave enough and secure enough to say my movement can be the “revolution” that turns this country into a multi party system.

So hopefully the Bernie acolytes or those inspired by him decide what they really want to be and do, do they want to try to change the Democratic Party or do they want to be bold and create the party they want to see and see who will follow

>So hopefully the Bernie acolytes or those inspired by him
>decide what they really want to be and do, do they want to try
>to change the Democratic Party or do they want to be bold and
>create the party they want to see and see who will follow

, Rashida tlaib’s of the party.

they need to do what moderates do and moderate on whatever issues they need to adapt to their electorate. cant run on a one size fits all platform.

A lot of these cats spent an entire year tearing down Sanders - and have been all out partying at Joe Biden emerging as the nominee lol

Congratulations, I guess.

-->

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtO_HmwkonA


thoughts?

They not gonna touch the Biden stuff

It's party on Bernie, or spam posts.

It's like, "Trump talks about sexually assaulting grown women"

https://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13078831

200+ replies (warranted, and this should've deaded his campaign)

Video footage of Biden sexually assaulting children

thread deleted, *crickets*, and "you must be a Trump supporter*

Now. Why is this just being promoted by Bernie supporters now? And why is Bernie still saying he will support Biden as the nominee????

This is a pretty repulsive video and using it as political tool is toxic as well. But this should have been promoted and talked about months ago, when Biden first announced.

would speed up the bernie revolution?

seems to have had the exact opposite effect.

made people more weary of candidates like bernie in the general.

people aint tryna nominate a dem candidate who automatically gives up states like nc and fl before the election even gets started.

there def was a revolution tho. but it was among the voters least likely to vote for him.

black people, suburban voters, older voters, etc.

>would speed up the bernie revolution?
>
>seems to have had the exact opposite effect.
>
>made people more weary of candidates like bernie in the
>general.
>
>people aint tryna nominate a dem candidate who automatically
>gives up states like nc and fl before the election even gets
>started.
>
>there def was a revolution tho. but it was among the voters
>least likely to vote for him.
>
>black people, suburban voters, older voters, etc.
>
>

lol

is how anyone can defend not choosing to throw his movement and momentum behind a younger more polished candidate for 2020.

I don't even think Warren is that person, and while I prefer Castro I wouldn't have said he definitely was either, but rolling out the same old and assuming it would do better this time was a risky play.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

because "the establishment" how does it expect to pass M4A?

I'm not saying Biden doesn't lose to Trump (minus recession and continued pandemic, he probably does) but there seems to be a rock paper scissors mindset going on that if Bernie can just get past Biden, he'd crush Trump.

I admire Bernie and I respect his consistency but I think at best he'll be seen as a torch bearer for the next progressive who could actually win.

shit biden prolly has a better chance of passing progressive policies just for the simple fact he isnt throwing away a bunch of down ballot house and senate seats in states like nc and az.

criticize/question/whatever Sanders you must not be a progressive.

For the most part, I think his movement has been a net positive but there are days when I worry that this whole Sanders = the left/progressives and nothing more is actually doing more damage.

Like, I'm pissed precisely because I want to see progressives win. The Sander campaign fumbled big time.


the criticizing Sanders = must be a moderate hack baffles me.

>shit biden prolly has a better chance of passing progressive
>policies just for the simple fact he isnt throwing away a
>bunch of down ballot house and senate seats in states like nc
>and az.

What progressive policies are you referring to?

DOMA? Biden supported it
Patriot Act? Biden supported
Patriot Act Re-Auth? Biden supported it
TARP (Wall Street Bailout) Biden supported it
Bankruptcy Act of 2005? Yup, that too
TPP? Supported it
NAFTA? Supported it
Repeal of Blass-Steagall? Supported it
2006 Border Fence? Supported it
War on Drugs? Supported it
Forever War policies? Supported it

Biden doesn't have any internal fortitude - nor does he stand on any redeemable or principled policy platforms.

Joe is gonna do whatever they tell him to do.


-->

he shoulda never turned the progressive movement into a divisive assembly line of conspiracies and grievances against the party whose voters he was trying to win.

thats a pretty dumb strategy.

failed at it in 2016. doubled down on it 4 years later.

definition of insanity.

hopefully my boo aoc can drag the movement out of the gutter and make an inclusive coalition out of it.

in the meantime...put some bass back in your voice...get out of your feelings...and lets get ready to get trump out the white house in november.

but lol @ you all of a sudden pretending to be down with AOC.

I guess you have to hedge pretty hard when you're out here mass spam'ing for Biden's America.

-->

bitterness is a bad look

Y’all just enjoy hearing each other fight to see who can defend Biden the hardest.

Enjoy.
-->

The question is a simple one that no one has answered.


How would Bernie pass say M4A if he can't win the Dem nomination?

That question doesn't mean we don't want universal healthcare. No one that I know of has flipped on that.

Loud Bernie supporters have said (and are still saying) that he is leading an historic movement that would ultimately beat Trump AND pass all of these structural changes....


if he could just...just...get by Joe Biden.


It doesn't compute.


Winning the Dem nom should be a cake walk compared to overhauling our healthcare system.

Imagine fighting a battle with the entire healthcare establishment?? How does that compare to Tom Perez?


Yet, a lot Bernie diehards still seem to think that the movement is bigger/more powerful than it is...even as they are losing pretty badly.

This idea that they would win this H U G E imaginary battle with the GOP, moderate Dems, AND the healthcare industry....when they can't beat Joe Biden is bonkers.


AOC is saying it right. The movement needs more people.


And I would guess most of us, if not all, agree precisely because we want progressive policies to be enacted.


You keep confusing yelling down loud, arrogant Bernie supporters with flippin on Bernie (which in itself isn't accurate), and then confusing that with flipping on an entire cause.


To question Bernie is to flip on progressive ideals sounds a lot like to question Trumpolini is to be unamerican.


Its odd to see so many fall into this trap.

We gotta remember Obama won while saying he wasn’t for gay marriage in 2008.

You don’t beat billionaires on a shoestring budget bruh. That shot would be historic.

What y’all are really saying is universal HC sounds awesome but it ain’t happening. Not now, not ever...

>You don’t beat billionaires on a shoestring budget bruh.
>That shot would be historic.

how does Bernie knock out Tyson when he can't get past Glass Joe?

>What y’all are really saying is universal HC sounds awesome
>but it ain’t happening. Not now, not ever...
>
>

haven't yet again bc the election isn't until tomorrow.

it's not my fault if he's losing.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

Not like this, OKP.

-->

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

-->

the only thing you can say about me is that you imagine I'm short.

that's it.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

So candidates can be seated and field pre-approved questions

Is that even a debate?

It’s in AZ right...?

Let’s see how short the immigration portion is

Bet Joe still gets lost and makes no sense...seated with scripted answers.

-->

maybe he'll regale us with inspiring stories of how he fought and sacrificed alongside martyrs of the civil rights movement.

Hillary and Obama had at least one in the '08 primary.

Obama and McCain had one in the '08 general.

Biden and Ryan were seated in their VP debate in 2012.

Kennedy and Nixon were seated in the first debate ever televised.

It's a perfectly conventional format, especially when there are only two candidates. And given that we've had somewhere around 300 debates so far this cycle, all at podiums, maybe we're due for a new format. Maybe it'll help Bernie to win over some voters. The stand-up format hasn't been working for him.

i think warren is the same. in all the town halls ive seen them they stand up less than a minute into it lol

i was reading the other day that the amount of debates has actually been reduced compared to previous years. sure doesnt feel like it. im guessing a lot of people just ignored most of them before.

C’mon man, get with the progressive times.

the one you were dead fucking wrong about

Y'all acting like Sanders is doing Kamala/Beto numbers or something lol.

Sanders has won:
*The Latinx vote
*Asian-American vote
*Native-American vote
*Arab-American vote
*LGBQTI vote
*Black vote under 30
*Women vote under 40

That's kinda the definition of a broad ass coalition.

It's true - he hasn't done well with old ass voters. Congrats.


-->

With it

Or literally any other reason other than the flaws of the candidate himself

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rLOUtddw4ZQ

I thought he was strong in the previous faux news townhall

He really commands the room, in what you would assume is an adversarial setting

...guess the msm is not covering this...

But they’ll probably run with the HRC moment.

on twitter the last few days.

they think them posting as much anti-biden content as possible in their lil bubble of likeminded followers is gonna make people vote for bernie.

they look crazy and desperate as hell.

https://mobile.twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1237211389942521856

You mean this tweet?

Do you want to talk about Biden’s role in the Iraq war...or ZOMG Whatabout Bernie’s surrogates?

Meanwhile, only positive spin and zero vetting of Biden - an incredibly weak candidate who has been given an inexplicable pass for his abysmal record.

But for Sanders? They got reddit pages of oppo research and negative spin on-demand lol.

-->

As opposed to telling people why Bernie would be the best candidate, instead of telling people why Bernie would be the president, instead of telling people how Bernie can win in November (understandably that last part is a really hard argument to make considering Super Tuesday)

But tearing Biden does not make people want to vote for Bernie, all it does it makes ppl not want to vote for either of them! That is such a LOSER, defeated strategy (if it’s a strategy at all, and not just base desperation). It does have me thinking what is the end result?? To depress voter turn out?

Show Bernie’s good qualities, because a lot of ppl haven’t voted yet. Convince people persuade.

These folks are so stuck in their grievance. And they really didn’t have a plan to win

and blames Bernie Sanders for not informing him.

Campaign staff and his supporters such as yourself for failing spectacularly. An 11th hour video of Biden isn’t doing a thing for ur candidate. Sorry for ur tears tho lol

the same shit that alienated their one possible ally (warren) and her voters.

i dont think ive ever seen a flock of supporters singlehandedly harpoon their own candidates chances like this. and they still havent learned.

my boo aoc out here tryna do the lords work and get the bros to turn a positive corner but theyd rather stay mired in the politics of personal destruction.

then they turn around and just be anti-biden.

im not even sure they attack trump/repubs anymore.

Sanders himself is to be commended for holding a forum on coronavirus. But I gotta say I loved Biden saying what all of us have been thinking recently, trump just needs to stfu and let the experts lead the response.

But yeah Bernie supporters ain’t thinking about trump, they just focus their ire on Biden, the dnc, warren and those on here on us, “middle aged neoliberal hacks lol”

except republicans.

like how you end up hating rachel maddow but not tucker carlson?

If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

at some point hopefully someone analyzes the collapse of the sanders campaign and how dem voters lost confidence in his ability to lead the party and beat trump.

theres a pretty remarkable story to be told there.

going forward...i hope we get a better progressive leader at some point. a good retail politician capable of coalition building and base expansion.

cabinet positions?

https://mobile.twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1237356188960010241

You spam posting already?

Bernie is mopping the floor with the young vote (under 30).

There probably isn't a single poster in this thread that's under 30. This ain't 2000 - we older now lol.

I'm actually surprised Biden isn't doing better in this poll - given that the demo sample size on OKP is a pro-Biden demo if you look at the national picture.

-->

Or the democrats will have to lose a large number of white women voters in the midwest and northeast


America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.

in michigan.

wouldnt be surprised to see a 15+ pt victory for teflon joe.

Guess we have our answer

Go convince someone to vote for sanders, u wasting ur time on here lol

with that broad diverse coalition yall were building

Always thought it was a bad idea for Dems to try and separate themselves
from Obama.

and yet I gotta see a dozen articles about how black grandmas voting for massa biden are the problem.



www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

ole fake indian snake

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

In general the case for the safety net is being made right now right? Repubs think the market can solve everything but right now we are facing a crisis that ONLY government can solve. Government isn't the problem, it's the only solution.

Biden's whole campaign should be you can't run the country like a business and we are caught unprepared because Trump undid all the actions me and Obama did to prepare for the very crisis we are facing.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

in light of this current pandemic, I take the French option.

Vote Trump out via the Dem nominee for Prez, oppose the Prez and hangers on therefore after if the nom is Biden.

i.e. French voters chose neoliberal with fascist tendencies in Macron over actual fascist Le Pen(is). Proceeded to oppose Macron at every turn; as a result, Macron's fascist tendencies have emerged.

And yet, that bum did the right thing when COVID-19 hit. Because he knows what's coming for him if he doesn't.

my confidence in Biden beating Trump is incredibly low unless COVID-19 ravages red states bad enough to make them not count.

But it better happen. this dude is sending humanity into extinction, and likewise idiots like Boris Johnson and Jair Bolsonaro are doing the same.


Fuck the goddamn mass media and their centrist neoliberal cheerleading.

Fuck all those COONS who are dancing in the streets over a potential Bernie loss. I hope all of them catch COVID w/o health insurance.

Fuck Donut Twitter and the K-Hive.

and of course fuck Donald Trump and the whole motherfuckin GOP (except Mike DeWine, he's earned a pass for now).


If Trump gets reelected, some people gotta die. and not from COVID or other disease.

>
>Fuck all those COONS who are dancing in the streets over a
>potential Bernie loss. I hope all of them catch COVID w/o
>health insurance.
>


You going too far

All of these Black liberals with verified accounts and in the media, playing their part in the continued gaslighting-ass support of the ruling class elites are COONS.

You can find them in the replies below.

its crazy how you got indoctrinated into being the exact thing you coined a term to poke fun at.

how did that happen?

why do y'all have to believe that everyone is hating you and against you?

they *don't care about you*

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

The desire to be president of the United States, to gain control over a machine that only truly functions to slowly squeeze profit out of working people/s blood, is sufficient evidence that a person is genuinely evil and should be opposed at every possible turn. But it's really difficult for me to just walk up to any one of these dripping monsters and explain that he's a fetid butthole whose only chance to avoid Mussolini's fate of having people line up to piss and spit on his corpse is to make sure that we have a chance to live in dignity by, say, not bankrupting my family because I get cancer.

But I live in DC and its full of saucer-eyed weirdos who think they're doing something good by working for the federal government. In the system you're describing, can I throw rotten vegetables at them? Yell that they're basically an assistant manager of the GAP - except instead of inventorying khakis, they hurt poor people?

Relatedly, a big *yes* to your affirmation of French protest culture. That country knows how to treat its dead-eyed plutocrats. It's amazing to see a bunch of cardigan'd middle-aged dudes living these minutely civilized lives but knowing that the moment their paycheck is late, they'll take to the streets, holding a toddler named Guillaume under one arm and punching a cop with the other. But we don't really do that here, for a variety of reasons.

He's an abysmal leader with a horrendous record and significant cognitive decline. If he somehow defies the odds and knocks off an incumbent, he's going to be the Democratic version of W. Bush -- wholly controlled by special interests essentially out there just reading a script given to him by technocrats. It will be interesting to see who he features in his cabinet - but Joe Biden is from the same old Pelosi/Schumer school of Democratic politics. Expect a watered-down version of the Obama years - with less aspiration and steady leadership from the top. At least Obama had vision and courage in a few areas --- Joe is just gonna be out there winging it.

But I actually think there's a fair chance that he doesn't even get nominated. The nominee (per party rules) can be replaced in the event of serious health issues or incompetence. I'm not sure Biden can take this thing across the end-zone.

-->

just on to the next one after the first 10 failed.

funny how your ‘unifying the party’ initiative apparently has an exemption for constantly regurgitating disinformation about the presumptive nominee.

ive never seen a group of supporters continually engage in such goofiness and delusion just to mentally/emotionally cope with the underperformance of their candidate.

yall are literally replaying 2016 (hillarys pneumonia/‘seizures’/etc).


>But I actually think there's a fair chance that he doesn't
>even get nominated. The nominee (per party rules) can be
>replaced in the event of serious health issues or
>incompetence. I'm not sure Biden can take this thing across
>the end-zone.

which you still can't quit. You've been peddling junk conspiracy here for years.

Questioning Biden's cognitive abilities is not "conspiracy theory" - it's simple acknowledgment of what's unraveling in front of our eyes. I notice how you gave him yet another pass after his ridiculous fumbling on his "Live" Coronavirus address. But hey, at least he showed up.

And lol at you bringing up Hillary - but they are not the same - not even in the slightest. Hillary's problems (and they were many) were not related to her cognitive decline. These are two completely different scenarios.

But we were right to be Hillary skeptics - given her historic unfavorables with voters. After all - she lost - which you still haven't seemed to come to grips with.

We'll see if our skepticism about Joe is correct as well soon enough.


-->

got otherwise sensible brothers like you and doc claw sounding like infowars now.

a big reason why a lot of sane true progressives stopped riding with 'the movement'.

i hope yall correct course and realize the error of your ways before you whittle modern progressivism down to simply a fringe anti-establishment counterculture club. cuz thats the direction yall got it pointing in.

listen to the newly enlightened aoc. not kyle kulinski.

Got damn.

We in the middle of some crazy pandemic and y’all still going back and forth on Biden and Bernie.

Might not even have an election in November.

So are we no longer allowed to discuss anything else *but* the pandemic til it's over ?

This is always such a disingenuous, bullshit take.

its better than accusing people of getting checks from tom perez tho. so thats progress.

It’s like 2 exhausted boxers in the 12th round... ain’t shit connecting anymore.

you know I’m right.

Shit been lame af the last week. Give it a rest until we get some new material.

https://twitter.com/SashaBeaulu/status/1242857366737104896?s=20



I wonder who will want Faiz Shakir to work their magic on a campaign next? Or Brie?

and it doesn't involve winning the presidency.

https://www.msnbc.com/katy-tur/watch/biden-says-single-payer-health-insurance-would-not-solve-system-s-burden-under-coronavirus-81391173986

Anyone, with any semblance of intelligence, can see during this pandemic, the advantages to a single payer, coverage for all, healthcare system

The overwhelming majority of democrats support a single payer system
Hell, the majority of americans (period (c)) support a single payer, coverage for all healthcare system

So to the Biden Bros
What are you doing to push Joe on this policy?
How are you making sure his healthcare policy reflects the voters needs?
What organizations have you joined in an effort to fix our healthcare system?
Are you phone banking?
Petitioning?

...or just hidin like Biden because the fun of trolling Bern supporters has run out during a fucking pandemic...

?

Come get your boy.

tho.

Furthermore, even with universal coverage, plenty of single-payer systems are/were struggling with containment during this pandemic. I don't like the way the left-wing is trying to capitalize on COVID-19 victims by implying that a single-payer environment somehow shapes this virus' infectivity. If that was the case, the attack rates we've seen globally/country-to-country would look a lot different. There's clearly other variables at play.

The weaknesses in Bernie's single-payer proposal haven't changed. Nor is public opionion as overwhelmingly as supportive as you guys say.. KFF has been doing public opinion polling on this topic for years and their most recent (Feb 2020) results still show a ridiculously strong partisan split on single-payer:

https://www.kff.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Chartpack-Single-Payer-02-20-20-Figure14.png

^with stronger (approx 15% more) and broader (incl. independents and Repubs as opposed to just Dems) support for a public option. Only 6% (!!) of those polled favor a single-payer system exclusively:

https://www.kff.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Chartpack-Single-Payer-02-20-20-Figure16.png

In fact in KFFs March polling, the overwhelming majority of respondents prioritize universal coverage/UHC over signature features of Bernie's single-payer proposal like co-insurance elimination and private insurer abolition:

https://www.kff.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Chartpack-Single-Payer-02-20-20-Figure8.png

So I mean... Imho, even if KFFs polling was off and somehow missing this "overwhelming majority of Americans" that want a single-payer system, Bernie's obviously been a terrible advocate for such legislation since he's been unable to obtain the necessary partisan or bipartisan support in Congress to deliver on that (alleged) mandate. But I think the more accurate take is that single-payer is simply not as popular with the general population (and thus, with its congressional representatation) as it is with a very vocal segment of the progressive left.

p.s. I'm not in any way, shape, or form a "Biden Bro" lol

but as we move forward what’s best for citizens in this new America?

Like someone said below, UE is going to be massive in these next few months and how will these people deal with Cobra payments or no insurance at all?

Shit is about to get really real in these next few months. Honestly, I have no idea if this is by design or just part of Mother Nature doing her thing.

it helps to just keep moving the ball forward.. Which isn't to say bigger goals have no place in politics, I'm just not a fan of ignoring structural and political barriers. I favor approaches that try going as far as *possible* whether fiscally, politically, etc.

And I agree, the UE spike is scary and tragic. If either single-payer or a public option were in place, those folks would be in better shape than they are now that's for sure.

Given the mass casualties, perhaps one silver lining from this pandemic will be the effect it might have on legislators to vote in favor of more transformational reforms than they would have initially.

Status quo = 10M uninsured
Obviously the ACA did not result in universal coverage
Are you for that?

What are you FOR?

Bern Lost, got it

So...m4a, single payer, universal coverage...those policies Lost too?

You really think the majority of Americans DON’T want universal coverage...during a fucking pandemic

Are you serious?

Nobody’s claiming it’s a cure

But even basic logic would understand having more people in the system, as in ERRYBODY, would at the very least had us in a better place to respond with more resources

...you know, because more people (10-50M) would be actively in the system..,

No need to retype or start a whole new back and forth. I just wanted to push back against this notion that single-payer is the only way forward. It's not.


>Status quo = 10M uninsured
>Obviously the ACA did not result in universal coverage
>Are you for that?

Well, do you know how many were uninsured before the ACA was enacted?
46.5M (https://www.kff.org/uninsured/issue-brief/key-facts-about-the-uninsured-population/). It cut the uninsured population significantly, which is a much better starting place no matter which reform ends up making it through Congress. Are you *against* that?


>
>Bern Lost, got it
>
>So...m4a, single payer, universal coverage...those policies
>Lost too?
>

Well, the candidates running on single-payer healthcare couldn't gather support from a majority of Dem primary voters this cycle or last cycle, and Bernie hasn't been able to gather the necessary support in Congress either despite Washington's long history of debate surrounding single-payer healthcare. It's certainly not looking good.

>You really think the majority of Americans DON’T want
>universal coverage...during a fucking pandemic
>
>Are you serious?

Like I said, single-payer isn't the only pathway to universal coverage. And if you come to terms with that, you'll see that most polling on this issue suggests a majority of Americans *want* improvements, and *want* Universal Coverage/UHC, but don't necessarily need these changes to occur as part of a transition to single-payer. Folks are open on this, which is actually kind of a good thing for policymakers.

Only an estimated 6% are as exclusively wedded to single-payer financing as yall.


>
>even basic logic would understand having more people in
>the system, as in ERRYBODY, would at the very least had us in
>a better place to respond with more resources
>
>...you know, because more people (10-50M) would be actively in
>the system..,

I conceded this point to legs already lol. If a public option or a single-payer system were available to folks right now they'd def be in better shape than they are currently.

Very few people are against universal coverage/UHC (and they're mostly conservative/libertarian). Certainly not me. But there's a lot more to it than what you're talking about here.

You could’ve just answered the question...somewhere in the graphs you typed

2s.

...lets see how many people who just filed for unemployment this month love their insurance. ...but then again, even in a pandemic, morons will vote against their own best interest.

auto-enrolled (or retroactively enrolled at point-of-care if they somehow remained uninsured yet got sick and showed up somewhere needing treatment) all these newly unemployed people tho.

But yall had to declare war on the center-left over nonsense. And now you might be looking at no/little progress at all.

It'll never make sense.

This is profoundly evil.

http://inthesetimes.com/article/22422/iran-sanctions-covid-coronavirus-pelosi-schumer-trump-democratic-party

In These Times
As Sanctions Kill Iranians Stricken With COVID-19, Democratic Leaders Are Silent

Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez are calling on Trump to curb the suffering. Where is democratic leadership?

BY SARAH LAZARE

While U.S. sanctions technically include a “humanitarian exemption,” this exemption is largely in name only.

Amid growing calls to lift U.S. sanctions on Iran, which are worsening the country’s staggering coronavirus death toll by cutting off vital medical supplies, the top leadership of the Democratic Party is remaining conspicuously silent. This inaction amounts to tacit consent for the Trump administration’s “maximum pressure” campaign, which has worsened the death toll of the country’s COVID-19 outbreak—a crisis that is killing one Iranian every 10 minutes, according to Iran’s health ministry.

On March 31, 34 members of Congress released a letter to Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin urging them to “substantially suspend sanctions on Iran during this global public health emergency in a humanitarian gesture to the Iranian people to better enable them to fight the virus. Sanctions relief that should be considered are those that encompass major sectors of the Iranian economy, including those impacting civilian industries, Iran’s banking sector and exports of oil, and should last for at least as long as health experts believe the crisis will continue.” The initiative, led by Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.), includes prominent signatories, among them Sens. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) and Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.), and Reps. Ilhan Omar (D-Minn.) and Rashida Tlaib (D-Mich.).

The letter followed another March 26 letter led by Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.) expressing concern about the impact of U.S. sanctions on the coronavirus pandemic in Iran and Venezuela—and calling for a 90-day waiver “of sectoral sanctions that impede a rapid humanitarian response” (11 senators total signed on).

Yet, powerful Democrats have been absent from these efforts: Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), the speaker of the House, Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.), Senate minority leader, and Rep. Steny Hoyer (D-N.Y.), House majority leader, were all missing from the list of signatories. All three have also noticeably steered clear of statements condemning U.S. sanctions. On March 20, Pelosi published a tweet marking the celebration of Nowruz, the Iranian New Year, in which she mentioned “all those in Iran who have lost loved ones and those who are suffering during this challenging time.” The tweet did not say anything about the role of the U.S. in worsening this suffering.

This role is significant. While U.S. sanctions technically include a “humanitarian exemption,” this exemption is largely in name only. In practice, a complex web of sanctions, coupled with U.S. intimidation and threats, have dissuaded companies from doing business with the country. Even before the coronavirus outbreak, human rights groups warned that U.S. sanctions were cutting off key medical supplies, including drugs needed to treat cancer and epilepsy. Since the pandemic began, these sanctions have become catastrophic, leading to severe shortages in key supplies needed to address the coronavirus crisis, including ventilators, syringes and infusion pumps. Doctors in Iran have repeatedly warned that U.S. sanctions are making the coronavirus death toll—now at 2,898—far worse.

A medical doctor working at a small community hospital in Shiraz, who requested anonymity, told In These Times via email, “The U.S. sanctions have severely impacted Iran's health care system because we are struggling for medical supplies and personal protective equipment and we cannot scour the globe due to unjust sanctions imposed on Iranian people. Even domestic manufacturers have difficulty buying raw materials to produce their own supplies because of the monetary difficulties.”

Democratic Party leaders’ failure to condemn these sanctions did not go unnoticed. Erik Sperling, the executive director of Just Foreign Policy, told In These Times, “This is a moment of really serious danger for the Iranian people, and Pelosi and Schumer, despite supporting the Iran deal at various points, won’t even speak out against the Trump administration's cruel policy.”

“Them being absent signals to the vast majority of Democrats that this isn't a priority for the Democratic Party and not worth challenging Trump and the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) on,” Sperling continued. AIPAC, a right-wing pro-Israel lobby organization, has supported the Trump administration’s escalation of sanctions on Iran, calling them “strong and effective.”

The March 31 letter did include lawmakers who chair various congressional committees: Rep. Jim McGovern (House Rules Committee), Rep. Peter DeFazio (Transportation and Infrastructure Committee), Rep. Raúl Grijalva (House Committee on National Resources), Rep. Nydia Velázquez (Small Business Committee). However, Yasmine Taeb, senior policy counsel at Demand Progress, an activist organization, agreed that the absence of the top Democratic leadership was conspicuous. “It’s a travesty that Democratic leadership and the broader Washington establishment are not doing all in their power to allay the suffering of the people of Iran while we are in the middle of this global crisis,” she told In These Times.

This failure to speak out against U.S. sanctions on Iran goes beyond Democratic leadership in Congress. On March 29, Democratic Party presidential frontrunner Joe Biden was asked by Chuck Todd on Meet the Press if he would lift sanctions on Iran. Biden responded, “I don't have enough information about the situation in Iran right now. And I’m not sure there’s any evidence that—there's a lot of speculation from my foreign policy team that they're in real trouble and they're lying. But I would need more information to make that judgment. I don't have the national security information available.”

These remarks, however incoherent, indicate that Biden is unwilling to condemn U.S. sanctions on Iran even when directly asked. This position contrasts with that of Sen. Sanders, Biden’s opponent in the Democratic primary, who has been a vocal opponent of the sanctions.

There are signs that Democratic Party institutions skew closer to Biden than Sanders on the issue of Iran sanctions. The Center for American Progress (CAP), arguably the most influential think tank within the Democratic Party, is falling short of calling for full sanctions relief. On March 12, when the coronavirus crisis was raging, Brian Katulis, a senior fellow at CAP, and Peter Juul, a senior policy analyst for the think tank, co-authored a piece published on CAP’s website calling for “limited sanctions relief in exchange for opening a new dialogue with Iran—similar to an interim deal crafted in 2013 that preceded the negotiations that led to the JCPOA .”

This is a far cry from the call for full and unqualified sanctions relief being issued by a bevy of social justice organizations. It seems leading Democratic Party foreign policy thought leaders are more interested in using the suffering in Iran as an opportunity to polish off a new soft-power grab than in joining activists in calling for the immediate, unqualified cessation of the current sanctions regime.

Another piece co-written by the same authors, published on CAP’s website March 11, acknowledges that “despite built-in humanitarian exceptions, U.S. sanctions also makes it more difficult for foreign companies and organizations to provide Iran with medical equipment that could help Iranians better cope with the coronavirus outbreak.” However, in the very next sentence, the piece argues against returning to the Iran deal. “At the same time, however, this diplomacy-first alternative also understands that the United States can’t simply return to the 2015 international nuclear deal with Iran either,” they write. Instead, they argue for a new interim deal that addresses “the legitimate security concerns of America’s Middle East partners, including implementing Obama-era security cooperation agreements with the Gulf Arab states.”

Katulis, a senior fellow at CAP, is known for his close relationship with one of the primary “Gulf Arab states” in question, the United Arab Emirates, and he continued meeting with UAE and Saudi lobbyists even after CAP said it had stopped taking UAE money, following Saudi Arabia’s murder and dismemberment of journalist Jamal Khashoggi (Saudi Arabia is a close ally of the UAE). Katulis’ insistence that any sanctions relief, even in the midst of a pandemic, be tethered to the interests of Gulf countries, is notable given that the United States is currently helping the UAE and Saudi Arabia wage a brutal war against Yemen that is now five years old.

But Democratic leaders’ role has gone beyond tacit acceptance through inaction. In the summer of 2017, Democrats in both the House and the Senate overwhelmingly voted in favor of a bill bundling together sanctions against Iran, Russia and North Korea. Sen. Sanders was the only person who caucuses with the Democrats who issued a “no” vote. That legislation preceded Trump’s 2018 withdrawal from the Iran nuclear deal and paved the way for his far harsher sanctions. Notably, some of the signatories to the March 31 letter voted in favor of the 2017 sanctions, among them Rep. Barbara Lee (D-Calif.) and Sen. Warren.

Keyvan Shafiei, a PhD student at Georgetown University who is originally from Iran, says the 2017 sanctions cost his father’s life. Shafiei told In These Times that his father passed away in southeastern Tehran in October 2017 because he was unable to obtain life-saving drugs as a result of summer 2017 sanctions. At the hospital, says Shafiei, “I befriended a lot of other people who had family in ICU. they were going through the same ordeal. I interacted with so many ordinary working Iranians who had family in the ICU, and the hospitals could not get them those drugs.”

Shafiei has been active in efforts to oppose Iran sanctions during the coronavirus crisis, joining a broad coalition of social justice organizations demanding immediate reprieve. Twenty-five organizations—including National Iranian American Council Action and Win Without War—signed on to a letter released March 20 calling on “Sec. Mnuchin, and Sec. Pompeo to loosen the administration's crippling sanctions regime on Iran for 120 days in order to aid the Iranian people’s fight against the virus.” Groups including the Democratic Socialists of America and MPower Change have joined #EndCOVIDSanctions, a campaign aimed at “pressuring Steven Mnuchin, U.S. Secretary Treasury and the Office of Foreign Assets Control to lift sanctions on Iran,” according to a statement.

Shafiei says the “indifferent complicity” of Democratic Party leaders “is even more glaring now, while a global pandemic claims innocent Iranian lives under a regime of brutal U.S. sanctions, and Democratic leaders, such as Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer, refuse to heed the calls for a lifting of these cruel economic measures that have significantly worsened the outbreak of the coronavirus in Iran.”

As the Trump administration doubles down on—and even escalates—sanctions in the midst of the pandemic, the situation in Iran grows more dire. UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, Michelle Bachelet, called on March 24 for sanctions relief in Iran and other countries fighting the coronavirus.

“We are losing people every day,” the doctor in Shiraz said. “So many medical workers are risking their lives every day because there are not enough personal protective equipment, and they get sick and die for being exposed to COVID-19 patients; basically, they are sacrificing their lives. The majority of people are blaming the situation on U.S. sanctions.”

good luck trying to continue to downplay the rift as centrist/establishment rumor mongering. its out in broad day now.

young turks founder and prominent brogressive:
https://twitter.com/cenkuygur/status/1244631725881184257
-----
A lot of progressives in this article are very nice but my job is to keep it real. @AOC decision to work with establishment rather than challenge it is very disappointing: AOC breaks with Bernie on how to lead the left
https://t.co/jyj4a1vfC7 via @politico
-----

context: aoc actually won a primary and general election. shes now a politician on the hook to voters for getting things done (and has multiple primary challengers on her heels lol). cenk couldnt even crack 7% of the vote in his primary. but him and other loud mouth brogressives wanna tell democrats what they should be doing to win elections lol.

for a while now.

they feel like they she should be bending over backwards to massage their egos and thank them everyday for her rise to prominence.

https://twitter.com/Nitzky89/status/1026139299841011712

hmmm...i wonder why this 'movement' was failing to attract voters.

ago are douche bags too?

I still don't get the, "We are at war with the establishment! Wait why doesn't the establishment support me?" thing. You want democratic nominations, but mad she is working with the democrats?

AOC seems to me like the member of the Squad who has grown and matured the most. I only hear about Ilhan when she is saying something crazy and not for legislative work.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

>AOC seems to me like the member of the Squad who has grown and
>matured the most. I only hear about Ilhan when she is saying
>something crazy and not for legislative work.

pressley was already meticulous and on point due to her experience/wisdom from state politics. omar and tlaib are still stuck in activist mode. omar can afford it due to the makeup of her district. tlaib might actually lose her upcoming primary election (she barely won last time and was helped by a split field).

aoc is evolving right before our eyes because she recognizes the futility of the path she (and sideline brogressive pundits) were on. its admirable.

The article points out that she is not backing justice democrats this cycle

...something like she's only endorsing 2 out 6, or something like that...

^^^ nothing to do with Bern.

You've been bent on this attempt to peel AOC away from Bern

She's credited him with inspiring her political career

Nothing is going to change that

But I bet you'll keep trying...even if your effort is slipping

...read that article days ago...

I'm disappointed in your trolling

-->

Cenk with 6% of the damn vote telling anyone a ythhng

or virtual voting.

Sure feels like this is going to be another shit show of an election in November.

You know the evangelicals don’t give a fuck. They still going to church, surely they will go out in vote even if it means standing in long sick ass lines.

https://twitter.com/Swatipedia/status/1245121173987311616

Disclaimer: She didn't include a link to the actual analysis, so you'd have to dig through the FEC data yourself to verify. I'd say the numbers look about right personally, but just FYI.

Main takeaways:

-Taking into account Pres candidates + Congr candidates + the Natl and State committees, Dems have raised over 1.4B compared to Repubs 0.95B. HOWEVER. Over half a billion of that money went to the numerous Dem primary campaigns, with ~0.453B alone spent on primary campaigns that ended up inactive (Note: Sanders and Biden are currently at 0.170B and 0.088B, respectively). Dems are also outraising Repubs when it comes to the House; the Dem committee has outraised the Repub committee by ~20M and Dem House candidates have outraised Repub House candidates by ~70M. Dem state parties appear to have outraised Repub state parties by a little over 10M.

-That said, Repubs are neck and neck with Dems when it comes to the Senate, both committees appear to have raised ~60M (Dem Senate candidates have individually outraised Repub Senate candidates by ~30M tho). And the Repub Natl Committee has about 80M more on hand than the DNC.

So basically, even though Dems raised ~half a billion more than Repubs so far, a lot more Repub fundraising has gone to core national and state party infrastructure (~155M more than Dems, according to one of the figures shared), and they're also sitting on a centralized fund for the GE of ~250M due to their joint fundraising committee model (Dems are not currently/yet using such a model).


Visuals I found most informative:


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUePHWrXgAIjQLB
^note: incl. all contributions


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUePHvFWkAAKFvl
^note: excludes debt i.e. totals may not match other figure exactly (I think? lol)

edit: data covered = Jan 2019-Feb 2020

https://twitter.com/AlxThomp/status/1246499752071647233

not too long ago rogan was looked at as a game-changing endorsement in the dem primary.

He ain't working class he's a millionaire, but his interests and views square up with most my white coworkers and many of the black guys I talk to as well.

When he said he might vote for bernie, he was talking off the cuff, not making some viral endorsement, and at that point in the race, a lot guys felt that way.

What you should take from his new quote is that alot of Bernie fans think he won't get the nomination and are gonna stay home or vote trump cuz Biden is a disaster.

Instead of making snide comments about bernie all the time, you and your pals should be energizing those same guys and show them why the should take a second look at Biden and his policies. Instead y'all just laugh at people ad call them Bros and junk. Enjoy the Dukakis-level blow out Biden is gonna get then.

Alot 9f black people will vote biden cuz we vote for any idiot the dnc puts up. Working class whites that the Democrats have trouble recruiting have to be energized and engaged with, not mocked.

You guys need to cut out the snark and tell people why they should vote FOR Biden, as opposed to reasons to vote against Trump.

>He ain't working class he's a millionaire, but his interests
>and views square up with most my white coworkers and many of
>the black guys I talk to as well.
>
>When he said he might vote for bernie, he was talking off the
>cuff, not making some viral endorsement, and at that point in
>the race, a lot guys felt that way.
>
>What you should take from his new quote is that alot of Bernie
>fans think he won't get the nomination and are gonna stay home
>or vote trump cuz Biden is a disaster.
>
>Instead of making snide comments about bernie all the time,
>you and your pals should be energizing those same guys and
>show them why the should take a second look at Biden and his
>policies. Instead y'all just laugh at people ad call them Bros
>and junk. Enjoy the Dukakis-level blow out Biden is gonna get
>then.
>
>Alot 9f black people will vote biden cuz we vote for any idiot
>the dnc puts up. Working class whites that the Democrats have
>trouble recruiting have to be energized and engaged with, not
>mocked.
>
>You guys need to cut out the snark and tell people why they
>should vote FOR Biden, as opposed to reasons to vote against
>Trump.


lol

One thing I will say is people on here don’t have to work at getting people on board because no one on here has any influence.

But as far as politics go, Biden and them have to get these dudes on board... even if just a few of them. They can’t act like people on here because every vote is needed.

People on OKP spending all day making up new Bronames is just... corny.

>One thing I will say is people on here don’t have to work
>at getting people on board because no one on here has any
>influence.
>
>But as far as politics go, Biden and them have to get these
>dudes on board... even if just a few of them. They can’t act
>like people on here because every vote is needed.
>
>People on OKP spending all day making up new Bronames is
>just... corny.
>
>

What could the Biden people say to this group that would convince them to vote for Biden ?

Look at the argument Joe Rogan made to explain why he would vote for Trump.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/04/joe-rogan-donald-trump-joe-biden-bernie-sanders

“I’d rather vote for Trump than ,” said Rogan. “I don’t think can handle anything/"

"“The pressure of being president of the United States is something that no one has ever prepared for. The only one who seems to be fine with it is Trump, oddly enough.”

but there is still a group outside of the extremist who are accessible.

Like overwhelmingly so.


That’s exactly the same Rogan demographic y’all talking abou t

would be the nominee and best person to beat Trump. Let me also add I’m not a Biden fan but I always thought he could get those working clad white voters who “voted for Obama the first time”

but I’ve always said you have to get those working class people to win and they will vote for an old white fire like Joe.

Just because Rogan and some assholes won’t vote for him doesn’t make it a serious issue.

Isn’t even know why Black people care about Joe Rogan.

>would be the nominee and best person to beat Trump. Let me
>also add I’m not a Biden fan but I always thought he could
>get those working clad white voters who “voted for Obama the
>first time”
>
>but I’ve always said you have to get those working class
>people to win and they will vote for an old white fire like
>Joe.
>
>Just because Rogan and some assholes won’t vote for him
>doesn’t make it a serious issue.
>
>Isn’t even know why Black people care about Joe Rogan.




That's exactly why I'm getting behind Biden myself. The white working class vote.



One other thing I've noticed, the Bernie folks framing Joe as this senile cognitively declining grampa must be brand new to this.

Because Joe has always been saying stupid things. And has never been eloquent

I'd argue that lack of eloquence is appealing to the working class vote

than a Sanders nomination. There was so much doom & gloom and peak "oppo research" propaganda aimed at Sanders - and even now you've got people still partying off the same playbook, *knowing* that all it's achieving is a more fractured Dem electorate come November. And they still don't care.

The blindness and arrogance in on full display yet again, with zero accountability in order if the likely scenario occurs (again): another Trump term caused by incompetence and political malpractice.
-->

the same people who ran a shitty divisive campaign that alienated 2/3 of the party.

yet for some reason...using your bubble logic...the election is supposedly being put in jeopary by all the people (overwhelming majority of the party) who are acting like mature grownups and already committing to vote against trump by hell or high water in november?

it really makes no sense to anyone outside of the lefty industrial grievance complex.

the same place where biden won 80+% of the counties that bernie won in 2016 during a complete primary rout...and bernie only appealed to 1/3 of the left...but bernie is the stronger candidate against trump and the boogeyman dnc is guaranteeing defeat by nominating the stronger nominee.

yall need to get a grip man.

supporters of every other candidate (especially on here) largely say they would have voted for blue no matter who (several polls have backed this up). if yall spoiled asses cant do the same...then yall are the problem. not everyone else.

when you've been ranting & raving, sounding endless alarm after alarm about Sanders, while failing to utter a word about the dangers of a Biden nomination. Still - you're here trying to drag Sanders and kick dirt on a large and essential segment of the Democratic electorate.

Just because you want to put your party hat on and unconditionally cape for the the party doesn't mean you have to whine and cry like a child when others don't join your bandwagon fanboy antics.

The entitlement you have is egregiously childish - expecting all voters to just fall in line with your polarized framing of politics.

You cry about the Sanders campaign not doing enough to build coalitions (and they certainly have their flaws) - but your ability to promote/build any kind of coalition with this mindless, blind loyalty is laughable - but of course that's not your point. You're clearly more than happy with just throwing sophomoric dart after sophomoric dart -- and you'll clearly blame the least empowered segments of the electorate for Biden's loss should it occur - while assigning zero blame to the people who actually hold power.

Hope it's been fun viewing the Democratic Party as your savior.

-->

cuz youve excused me of 2 completely different emotions for the same exact consistent behavior.

gotta get your story straight fam.

yall alienated the supporters of literally *every* other major candidate with your behavior. and even still...most of them committed to vote for bernie if he was the nominee.

yall are the only ones bitching and threatening to not vote with the coalition...while simultaneously accusing *everyone else* of damaging/abandoning the coalition.

*thats* irony.

-->

Seems like an easy fix

The point you’re missing IRT Rogan...and it has been repeatedly brought to your attention

There are voters who are not going to blindly support...blue no matter who

IRT Rogan and other Bern supporters...you’re actually reinforcing the idea that Bern would have a larger base if given the nomination

Blue no matter who + Bern or bust > Blue no matter who

But you’d rather alienate a 3rd of that base...to stick it to the ‘bros’

Bern is a candidate that brings out voters that don’t normally participate in the political process.

>
>Blue no matter who + Bern or bust > Blue no matter who
>
>But you’d rather alienate a 3rd of that base...to stick it
>to the ‘bros’
>
>Bern is a candidate that brings out voters that don’t
>normally participate in the political process.
>

Think about what you are saying here. The candidate who had smaller support among democratic voters should be the democratic nominee because the majority will suck it up and vote for him anyway.

Biden will not be appointed the democratic nominee by a shadowy committee. He is going to get a large majority of the votes.

seriously have any of the bernie fans in here given a concrete answer on why young people werent even excited to vote for bernie en masse?

or is that the establishments fault too?

its funny how many talking points theyve had to abandon since actual votes started getting counted (bernie leading with black voters was my favorite).

and all the top candidates dropping out (and endorsing him) strategically before Super Tuesday?

-->

You know, like the GOP does


And they be winning elections. Or you can continue listening to Cenk and Faiz for political roadmaps to absolutely nowhere

-->

which I think in your echo chambers, is part of the Lame stream media

and there's nothing wrong w/ that - I read the NYT as well - but not exclusively. I don't listen to or watch Cenk or TYT - so not sure why you keep referencing that - but I do make sure to diversify my media and absorb investigative journalism outside of the NYT/WAPO lens.

-->

a campaign that only appealed to 1/3 of the voters *on the left*.

they cant win purple district/state primary elections (see 2018). damn sure cant win national presidential elections. but want people to follow them down the path of becoming a fringe minority.

i have no idea why they think their opinion on politics even matters anymore.

remind them that the last presidential campaign that the top 2 bernie staffers worked on...was john kerrys lol.

https://twitter.com/danielmarans/status/1245695187931848704
-----
Some aides were frustrated by campaign manager Faiz Shakir's decision to travel with Bernie, arguing it hampered management of big campaign. Shakir's top deputy, Ari Rabin-Havt, was also always on the road with Bernie. Last full-time prez campaign for both was John Kerry.
-----

apparently bernie saw fit to have his campaign run by the folks behind the 'establishment' campaign they continuously bash.

im not sure theres any bigger L in this whole thing than that.

more than Rogan?


Or...should have posted up in SC rather than trying to get cute in MA?


The thing is...you have to win fucking elections.

'political malpractice' is doing stupid shit before doing necessary shit.


All of you guys are mad at the wrong people.


Bernie isn't the nominee...not because of the establishment, or because of CNN, or because of Reeq, or because of Obama.


He isn't the nominee because of Bernie and his campaign. Be mad at them. They fucked around and lost to a terrible candidate who ran a lazy campaign.

Self reflection time.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUydj5zXsAEoeTm?format=jpg&name=medium

niggas ran a failed campaign staffed with online trolls and got mad at people for appealing to real world voters.

they really thought joe rogan commanded an influential political army that was gonna mobilize for bernie.

if you ever needed a prime example of living in a youtube/twitter bubble...they are it.

somebodys gonna make a good netflix comedy series out of this campaign some day.

there are no 2016 excuses in 2020. you cant mark it up to not knowing how bad trump will be.

if anyone has lived through the last 3 years (and especially his handling of the coronavirus) and is still dead set on voting for trump or staying home...then thats on them. nobody else. *you* want trump to lead this country in the same direction he has been leading it. the rest of us are going out to vote against him.

even considering voting for trump after you supposedly supporting bernie...that right there lets you know that these supporters dont really care anything about actual policy. not healthcare, not climate change, not civil rights, and obviously not ethics/corruption.

those arent real progressives. those are personality cult 'bernie fans' (as you so aptly put it).

if you can flip a switch from bernie to the complete anti-bernie (policy-wise) then theres something else going on there and im not sure what outreach could remedy that.

you cant blame that on biden. thats internal dysfunction that needs to be addressed from within.

the same people who didnt even show up to vote for bernie in the primary (lol) are threatening not to show up for biden. they catastrophically failed to win people over to their side with money/ideas/relationship building so their only political power is holding the party hostage via self-sabotage. inspiring 'movement' you got there.

instead of just throwing out cliches like 'dems need to win these voters over'...id like you to reply to me with an actual strategy to appeal to these voters who clearly arent motivated by policy.

cuz imo theres no constructive political discourse to be had with people who are still throwing juvenile social/cultural tantrums in adulthood. no reasoning with folks who have no real political/moral grounding outside of throwing malatov cocktails that harm themselves and the rest of the country...just to make some point.

its much more productive to concentrate on energizing the coalition of dems, indies, and patriotic republicans who already realize the importance of saving the country in november (the same ones from 2018). and *thats* what i will be doing.

its clear a lot of yall just *want* biden to suffer a 'dukakis-level blowout' so you can be right about *something* in 2020 (since your entire concept of political theory and winning elections was proven completely wrong in 2 straight prez primaries). so yall should just come out and say that and stop hiding behind this fake concern trolling.

...

and just some quick cleanup on some of the erroneous misinfo/narrative youre echoing...

biden beat bernie among the white working class. so hes their chosen dem candidate (thats how democracy works). joe rogan or bernie sanders arent any more representative of white working class voters than biden.

and you cant continue to blame the dnc boogeyman for 'putting up' biden as if they appointed him and *voters* didnt choose him by an overwhelming margin.

over 20 candidates ran. bernie was the only candidate in the race who actively wrote most of the rules that he was running under (oddly nobody accused him of rigging though). he staked his entire campaign on squeaking through a divided field. he had no strategy to expand his base and actually appeal to the majority of people that he was running to lead.

once it became a 2 person race...he was exposed as a weak candidate and it was a complete blowout. like not even close. virtually over after the 1st tuesday of multi-state races.

the voters spoke *decisively*. across all types of demographic and geographic groups. bernie failed dramatically and his entire energized broad coalition movement mythology got exposed in front of the whole nation.

the dnc aint to blame for that. bernie and his twitter troll campaign surrogates are.

and yall tell on yourselves with your complete disdain for the democratic will of the voters by resorting to conspiracy theories and illogical bubble talking points because your favorite candidate didnt come anywhere close to winning them over.

when a good 85% or more of the Black Biden faithful don't even know who Joe Rogan is.

what this tells you is who the Democratic Party wishes to have as its swing voters.

man, if Obama had that same attitude he'd still be a IL senator

also, focusing on the "probably voting for Trump" part of what he says (which is irrelevant) obscures the truth of what he spoke about Biden as a candidate.

the black people who pointed out that rogan is exactly who he ended showing himself to be are coons now?

but apparently the black people caping for alt right sympathizer/platformer and potential trump (white supremacist) voter rogan are ok.

im afraid to even ask what youtube channels youre getting all your news from nowadays. your rapid descent into cognitive dissonance and logical incoherence has been pretty remarkable to watch. like youre way past even young turks territory.

...bigger question is. ..why don't YOU?

to supposedly bad candidates.

biden won 80+% of the counties that voted for bernie in 2016.

so even previous bernie voters arent voting for bernie lol.

forget joe rogan...yall need to be asking each other why *yall* dont see biden as a worse candidate than bernie lol.

the guy who cant win florida, michigan, texas, *or* washington is objectively the weaker candidate. full stop.

yall really gotta get out of this world of hand selected polls and twitter opinion threads and start prioritizing/paying attention to what people are doing out in the real world.

bernies central campaign strategy was capitalizing on low turnout caucuses, going scorched earth on other candidates and driving their favorables down, and praying that his opposition remained divided among several candidates. he had no plan b for it being a 2 person race.

even bernie knew he wasnt the strongest candidate.

...stop dancing around and provide an answer please

like jesus fucking christ

i'm much less of a Tulsi hater than most in here and i think she's a decent person but when she can't even seem to recognize Fox News hosts using her, I wouldn't have much faith in her ability to put the right people in the right places.

Rogan openly admits he does't know shit about politics and that people shouldn't follow him like that, but he also frequently follows those admissions up with pointing to trash 'experts' to follow.

he's unfortunately fairly influential to apolitical "they all suck" types.

and yeah rogan doesnt know shit about politics.

i caught a convo between him and eddie bravo where they were still talking about republicans like the party of family values and personal responsibility. in the age of trump.

Talked with him about it a couple weeks ago. He's a lifelong conservative but a never Trump guy, who's still in significant denial about the state of his (inexplicably) beloved repug party. He legit said "the whole party isn't Trump" and then proceeded to invoke fucking Romney as some who's "a true representation of the party."

I didn't let him have the floor for too long with that bullshit.

He's a true representation of what they used to pretend to be, maybe. But that's about it. It's The Trump Party now, dogg. Sorry it hurts.


>i caught a convo between him and eddie bravo where they were
>still talking about republicans like the party of family
>values and personal responsibility. in the age of trump.

if you notice...theres not really any negative coverage in the mainstream media about the republican party in general. its basically trump is bad and all of the poor well-intentioned republican politicians who rubber stamp everything he does are frightened of him and his base.

makes it a lot easier to go back to portraying conservatives as some mainstream center-right political organization once trump is gone.

That shit totally neglects the fact that their joyful compliance, and/or gross, willful ignorance/negligence is what got and has kept us here in the first place.


>if you notice...theres not really any negative coverage in
>the mainstream media about the republican party in general.
>its basically trump is bad and all of the poor
>well-intentioned republican politicians who rubber stamp
>everything he does are frightened of him and his base.
>
>makes it a lot easier to go back to portraying conservatives
>as some mainstream center-right political organization once
>trump is gone.

for all the talk about sensitive libs, if this isn't the biggest party of some of the most limp dick fucks around...

Whichever one of those Weinstein brothers he had on last. They *both* agreed Tulsi would be the best to get us through this.

Dunno if it's the same interview where he said he'd rather have Trump
I dont know the context of that one and a lot of times his shit talking tends to get blown up too much at times as if they're declarations.

But he was serious about the Tulsi thing.

If hes serious about his Trump comments its weird because he claims to have so much respect for Tulsi, Bernie (and Yang) yet they're backing Biden

So...repugs successfully blocked the D Gov's attempts to move the primary to a later date

SMH, really don't understand people that vote for these a$$holes

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wisconsin-governor-suspends-person-voting-tuesdays-election-coronavirus/story?id=70002422

VOTE or DIE...could easily become...VOTE AND DIE (c) Rs

...if only that could happen

for anyone sincerely interested in doing a good faith assessment of the progressive movement and how to adapt/improve.

https://twitter.com/danielmarans/status/1245693725872979970

https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/1247633936794222593

disgusting.

and these folks wondered why they struggled with black voters?

Maybe you should take a break

Twitter may be compromising your mental health.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/6700880/coronavirus-social-media-mental-health/amp/

There is plenty of evidence to show that screen time is a “major factor” in mental and physical health, Simon Sherry, a registered psychologist at CRUX Psychology in Halifax, told Global News.

One 2018 study found that “compulsive media use” triggered social media fatigue, ultimately leading to elevated anxiety and depression.

directly I mean. Without deflecting on to some other bullshit

Which were actually deflections from a direct yes or no question

(Scroll up about 5 replies)

If you haven’t noticed, most of us are focused on bigger things

...like staying alive...

FTR, I stopped exchanging with Reeq when he ghosted his own Beto for POTUS post.

>FTR, I stopped exchanging with Reeq when he ghosted his own
>Beto for POTUS post.

Really hope you're okay

If you haven't noticed by now, it's just us.

This pseudo-woke Gotcha b.s.


>

>FTR, I stopped exchanging with Reeq when he ghosted his own
>Beto for POTUS post.




A voter is allowed to favor a particular candidate early on (even if its not Bernie), and then evolve as more information comes in on that candidate.


to frame it as ghosting ..... smh



The diff between the Beto or Mayor Pete crowd is their more staunch supporters aren't going down guns blazing with the ship.


Trying to bring everyone down with yall. John Fucking Lewis being the newest casualty of the man buns

some of these OKP’s heads.. lol

some of his followers, not so much.

But I'd vote like 40% of his followers off the planet.

then infinite respect to him.

still very much support the guy as the legendary senator that he is


he, along a few key players, helped push the needle leftward

https://youtu.be/ndDeLIYVWkc

....he does not look well. ..i wonder who will be the real candidate when November rolls around, because it will not be Joe Biden.

I tapped out

Anybody talking about going back to work and/or the economy right now...really triggers me

It’s fucked up that I’m rooting for him to just get through a teleprompter speech without fumbling and stammering

...tapped out after a couple of minutes...

His tone is more talking at, than talking to...I can’t relate to him in any way.

Does he talk at you, or to you?

When do we start actually talking about Biden?

Did I insult your savior?

BTW, teleprompter Trump >>> teleprompter Biden

sad, but true

For the record, 2 months ago I was accused here of being a Bernie Bro lol.

But talking about Trump is talking about Biden (i.e. Trump's opponent).

Any criticism you have about Biden may well be true. But the flip side to any criticism is always what is the alternative. I haven't seen any criticism that even comes close to me thinking "well I guess 4 more years of Trump would be better"

I will take a Biden shell over Trump. They could Weekend at Bernie's him throughout his term and I would be better off than a Trump presidency.

Because the presidency isn't about that one person. It's about control of the executive branch. It's about the power to appoint cabinet officials. It's about the power to appoint people to lead agencies which execute policy. It's about the power to recommend judicial appointments. It's about the power to veto legislation.

I'm not looking at Biden to be a savior. I just want him (or someone pulling the strings for him) to have control of the executive branch. Because I think those decisions will be more in line with my interests than a Trump administration's would

in the black community should be disqualified

BLM was what...2013...?

So..instead of holding him accountable for the role he's played throughout his political career

that has manifested today in the disproportionate number of our community dying...due to lack of resources

...we should reward him with the highest office...

Because he's not Trump?

The scenario you described, sounds like you're not actually voting for Biden

you're voting for his cabinet and appointees....?

How does that work?

You have insight into who those people are going to be?

Gretchen Whitmer gonna save us?

He needs to be held accountable.

He needs better answers, than...data...which, BTW, Trumpster said the same thing yesterday at 5PM EST.

You want Trump's EPA administrator or Biden's?
Trump's AG or Biden's?
Trump's appointment to the 9th circuit court of appeals or Biden's?

You're right. I don't know who Biden would put into those positions. But I do have a pretty good idea what their ideologies are going to be (unless Biden pulls an okie doke on us).
And I know for certain what Trump will do.

I'm fairly certain Biden's people would be more in line with my interests. Not perfectly certain, but I'm willing to take that gamble.

If you're talking about the idea of substituting Biden for another nominee that's one thing. But it seems like in the face of the reality we're living in right now where there are these two options for president, you are still weighing your options.

If that's the case, more power to you. But to me it is already clear.

Biden and Trump are like racism in the north and south

In the south, they fly confederate flags, burn crosses, etc...
Very evident
= Trump

In the north, it’s white flight, gentrification, etc...
Not as easy to identify with the naked eye, but still just as present
= Biden

I don’t want either of those choices

Neither isn't a choice lol. One of them is going to happen whether you like it or not

Weird, I thought that was democracy

Thanks for the clarification

If you vote 3rd party or stay home, you reserve zero right to complain about Trump's 2nd term.

It appears you haven't figured out yet that we don't have a true democracy. Grow up.

Ain't no one forcing you to support anyone. I just want to understand where you currently stand.

If you're posed with the question "would you rather have Biden or Trump as president" and your answer is "neither", you are either engaging in bad faith or don't understand the question.

Maybe if I phrase it this way, I can finally get at your position:

Please rank the following two presidential candidates in order of your preference, with (1) being "most preferred" and (2) being "least preferred".

---Donald Trump
---Joe Biden

Everyone understands that the two party system is insufficient and oppressive. No one's disputing that.

But the *reality* is that we have two "people" to choose from. Biden, and 45*.

You can vote for Biden.
You can vote for 45*.
You can vote 3rd party.
You can stay home.

The last 3 options are all the same - a checkmark for 45*. The first is, UNFORTUNATELY, the only way, as it stands right now, in our current reality, that you'd be contributing to denying 45* his 2nd term.

That's the reality. It sucks, but that's what it is.

Even a fucked up flawed one then you might want to vote in such a way that actually reflects that.

Because another Trump term and that democracy shit is dead in the water.

Then the answer to your retort will be, 'We don't anymore and when we had the last chance to defend it you sat arms akimbo standing on principle while they wrapped the noose around your neck and kicked it out from under you'

Fuck them all.


I will ONLY vote for my chosen candidate. Fuck everybody else.


PS I'm also super clever, nuanced, and understand US history.

yall have said this enough times in the mirror to yourselves that its become true

You are aware that Biden is a double aneurysm survivor?

And those survivors have increased cases of dementia?

or was it Krystal Ball?

I've yet to see a single person on OKP cite Cenk -- except for you.

-->

...meanwhile they're probably hardcore MSNBC viewers, as if that network acts in good faith. ..Cenk is a goofy dude and he ends up hurting the movement more than he helps sometimes ..but i'd say the policies he supports are in line with logical democrats (not centrists).

i'll admit my limitations here


TYT is the one I know of. There is clearly some other alternative that you're going to


The Intercept? Help me out here.


Cuz it damn sure aint a staff of Pulitzer prize winners

I'm personally not a fan of TYT - but I would consult TYT before going to CNN? Absolutely.

I consume media across the board: Maddow (MSNBC), NYT, Financial Times, Democracy Now, WSJ, Newsweek, Rolling Stone, France24, AJ+, The Hill, The Economist, and yes - the Intercept (to name a few)

>The Intercept? Help me out here.
>
>
> Cuz it damn sure aint a staff of Pulitzer prize winners

What's funny is that The Intercept was founded by a Pulitzer prize winning journalist lol.

-->

Bankruptcy bill
Free college
Student debt forgiveness
Expanding Medicare

Good start...but how’s he gonna pay for it...and get it through a R senate?

it’s not gonna work tho.

People want Trump gone. I think a lot of these suckers were shitting on Bernie and his voters because they just wanted to get to the GE.

Half the shit they were saying they didn’t really believe. They just wanted Bernie out of the way so Dems could focus on defeating Trump.

Ask them what Biden’s polices are and they have no fucking idea.

This is all I'm looking for at this point

...and I concur completely with that statement...

once again, we are not nominating the candidate with the best policies

So what are Biden's policies and how does he plan to implement them?

and as you said, again I concur completely, there was an overwhelming amount of vitriol directed at Bern for his policies...whether genuine or ulteriorly motivated

Now Biden is adopting some of those policies

where's that same energy?

Dude went from

...nothing will fundamentally change...
...I have no empathy for millenials...
...I will veto M4A if it passes the senate...
etc...

to Bernie Bro lite.

>Student debt forgiveness
>Expanding Medicare

If I direct my will towards a certain end and there is a side effect that, while not the intended result, is easily foreseeable, it's fair to call it "intentional." An easy way to demonstrate this principle is actions in war that cause civilian casualties. If you bomb a crowded urban area in pursuit of an ostensibly legitimate military target and end up killing a bunch of regular folks just trying to live their dumb lives, you don't get to say "how was I to know?" or "you can't blame me for trying."

At this point, when minutely-targeted, means-tested programs allow people who desperately need that help to fall between the cracks, it's intentional.

I thought a couple of people on here might enjoy this really amazing and in depth article showing how nothing has really changed since the election of 1896 and the People's Party.

"What part of the system are you? Who do you oppress?" KRS-ONE

https://web.archive.org/web/20200409163951/https://harpers.org/archive/2020/04/how-the-anti-populists-stopped-bernie-sanders/

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/05/869553801/biden-formally-secures-democratic-nomination-while-gaining-steam-against-trump

on his way to a cakewalk victory.

dude really had the kitchen sink thrown at him from the right and left and cruised through it for the most part.

now theyre left with trying to attack him on stupid shit like this:

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1268873288798912512