https://streamable.com/tqvl4

Context: https://youtu.be/I2923L1bJBw

LeBron basically like shut your mouth/tweets on this issue. Your messing up our money. I.e. now he wants to shut up and dribble.

Now he's lost Hong Kong
https://nba.nbcsports.com/2019/10/15/in-hong-kong-protesters-burn-lebron-james-jersey-at-stand-with-morey-rally/

If they were truly for democracy and freedom, where was this same energy in Latin America and the Middle East?

A lot of the support for HK is misdirected angst toward China as rising force in global politics

Don't get me wrong HK should fight for their independence, but they don't need some out of touch NBA owner tweeting for their cause.

Bron is 100% right that the NBA players should not be obligated to hold a position on the issue, especially since the NBA as an organization is reluctant to hold an opinion. Bron's concerns are limited to keeping players gainfully employed and serving the community he came from.

>If they were truly for democracy and freedom, where was this
>same energy in Latin America and the Middle East?
>
>A lot of the support for HK is misdirected angst toward China
>as rising force in global politics

But right is right, no matter the motivations. Media coverage has a lot to do with it, too. Which is part of your point I know. Just saying, I don't think everyday people taking HK's side is as disingenuous as is the media's/politicians'.


>Don't get me wrong HK should fight for their independence, but
>they don't need some out of touch NBA owner tweeting for their
>cause.

Why not ?

to do with their cause and have no means or desire to help HK achieve an independent democracy other than tweeting

They gonna donate some of their bountiful cash for police scanners for HK protestors or for guns if Chinese military intervenes?

>RE: Just because I feel like those same owners have little to nothing
>to do with their cause and have no means or desire to help HK
>achieve an independent democracy other than tweeting
>
>They gonna donate some of their bountiful cash for police
>scanners for HK protestors or for guns if Chinese military
>intervenes?

Who knows, maybe Morey *is* providing support for HK financially and/or otherwise.

But even if not, I just don't like the "moral support is meaningless" sentiment, in general. Disingenuous or not, if you're right you're right. It can't *hurt* to tweet out something like that, in support of marginalized people and in support of democracy on a global level. He's got a social media following being who he is, and therefore has *some* level of influence, so even if all the tweet does is spread the message and change the mind of one person (nevermind that it could, by virtue of a chain reaction, influence someone to take more significant action) then it's worth it.

This mainstream American support for Hong Kong is framed in a capitalist vs. communism template, but that truth is often couched in prettier language.

Don't use the words democracy and freedom if what you are really protecting is the free market in Hong Kong

Where is freedom and democracy against totalitarian regimes we backed so many other places in the world?

The US was certainly not for democracy and freedom when it came to Thomas Sankara as one example. He was killed 32 years ago today.
https://thewalrus.ca/thomas-sankara-tried-to-liberate-his-country-from-the-west-then-he-was-murdered/

LOL.

Your points are well taken and I am in agreement with everything you're saying re: folks like Morey being more interested in protecting the free market than actual freedom for the HK citizens.

My point was only that in a vacuum his tweet - no matter his personal motivations for sending it - was harmless in terms of what it means for Hong Kong, and if anything could only help the cause, however minimally.

Support is great for HK, but people should examine the US' motives for touting HK's cause and note inconsistencies with how other international movements are treated.

>Support is great for HK, but people should examine the US'
>motives for touting HK's cause and note inconsistencies with
>how other international movements are treated.

>But right is right, no matter the motivations. Media coverage
>has a lot to do with it, too. Which is part of your point I
>know. Just saying, I don't think everyday people taking HK's
>side is as disingenuous as is the media's/politicians'.

I see it being just as disingenuous as something like Kony, or everything surrounding the Notre Dame fire, in terms of everyday (Western) people's response to it.

and there's nothing wrong with people getting on board over it because standing up for human rights is obviously a good thing, but when people get self-righteous about an issue they probably didn't care about a month ago, that's when the disingenuous part comes into play.


>I see it being just as disingenuous as something like Kony, or
>everything surrounding the Notre Dame fire, in terms of
>everyday (Western) people's response to it.

because none of the *right-wing people slamming lebron or the NBA are actually doing or saying anything against China

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

He was better off Steve Kerr'ing that shit and moving on. He did the NBA no favors and is seen as taking the wrong side.

Or even Stephen Smith for that matter.

He could have STFU but for anyone to weigh in on the side of China can only make you look like a tool.

This is just the beginning. I saw John Oliver talking about it last night and I was wondering, just this just means that HBO isn't exported to China?

My wife seriously considered a job with a hot Chinese Company and I dissuaded her partly with, we are this close to entering a cold war with them, not sure you want to work for a company you can't tweet "yay for democracy!"



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

"Get ready....for your blessing....."
"Bury me by my Grand-Grand and when you can come follow me"

.
.

“It was the evidence from science and history that prompted me to abandon my atheism and become a Christian.” — Lee Strobel, The Case for Christ

The Case for Christ Lecture: https://youtu.be/67uj2qvQi_k

Looking for Good News: https://www.goo

NBA been in China for 20+ years.
Alibaba makes everything in your house.
But LeBron a sellout for not being the pointman for a protest most of us have little to no idea about why its happening?
FOH
Same folks mad at lebron ignore haiti. And dont give a fuck about police brutality here

>Same folks mad at lebron ignore haiti. And dont give a fuck
>about police brutality here


.
.

“It was the evidence from science and history that prompted me to abandon my atheism and become a Christian.” — Lee Strobel, The Case for Christ

The Case for Christ Lecture: https://youtu.be/67uj2qvQi_k

Looking for Good News: https://www.goo

Everybody has priorities on what they choose to care about and where they choose to put their focus so it doesn't bother me in the least that he's not out there waving the flag for HK independence. It's perfectly reasonable (in fact, mature) to be outspoken on a particular topic but reserve comment or judgment on a similar but different topic until you've truly versed yourself in the new topic.


That's all besides the point really... the point LeBron was trying to make (poorly) is Morey put the league, a couple teams in China at the time and many of it's most popular players at risk on some ill-conceived whim. Morey misconstrued how sensitive China was to the topic and how invested the league and many players are in the Chinese market.

it's also funny looking at Republicans trying to call the league and LeBron hypocrites for conducting the same kind of economic diplomacy that the US government endorses and many US companies actively participate in. The justification for these companies taking Chinese money and playing by Chinese rules is that the economic activity exposes Chinese citizens to more free-market ideals and, hopefully, the more democratic political concepts that support them.

Singling out the NBA just makes all American businesses in China (and the American govenrment)look bad because all of them are cashing checks while looking the other way.

>Everybody has priorities on what they choose to care about
>and where they choose to put their focus so it doesn't bother
>me in the least that he's not out there waving the flag for HK
>independence. It's perfectly reasonable (in fact, mature) to
>be outspoken on a particular topic but reserve comment or
>judgment on a similar but different topic until you've truly
>versed yourself in the new topic.
>
>
>That's all besides the point really... the point LeBron was
>trying to make (poorly) is Morey put the league, a couple
>teams in China at the time and many of it's most popular
>players at risk on some ill-conceived whim. Morey misconstrued
>how sensitive China was to the topic and how invested the
>league and many players are in the Chinese market.
>
>it's also funny looking at Republicans trying to call the
>league and LeBron hypocrites for conducting the same kind of
>economic diplomacy that the US government endorses and many US
>companies actively participate in. The justification for these
>companies taking Chinese money and playing by Chinese rules is
>that the economic activity exposes Chinese citizens to more
>free-market ideals and, hopefully, the more democratic
>political concepts that support them.
>
>Singling out the NBA just makes all American businesses in
>China (and the American govenrment)look bad because all of
>them are cashing checks while looking the other way.

^^^^^^^^^^ True

the "situation at hand" being, we have players over here at risk vs him referencing the entire situation in HK

>That's all besides the point really... the point LeBron was
>trying to make (poorly) is Morey put the league, a couple
>teams in China at the time and many of it's most popular
>players at risk on some ill-conceived whim. Morey misconstrued
>how sensitive China was to the topic and how invested the
>league and many players are in the Chinese market.

He's basically saying nobody (Morey for example) should speak on the issue, lest we upset the Chinese government.

How does LeBron know he's actually ignorant about the situation ? Has he sat down and chopped it up w/him to determine the depth of his knowledge of the subject of China/HK ? Or is LeBron just fired up because he lost some $$ and was out of his comfortzone for a week ?

i think it was more in line with what cocobrotha2 said in his second line

"the point LeBron was trying to make (poorly) is Morey put the league, a couple teams in China at the time and many of it's most popular players at risk on some ill-conceived whim. Morey misconstrued how sensitive China was to the topic and how invested the league and many players are in the Chinese market."

and there's an argument to be made against that as well on whether or not that's a cowardly take, but the interpretation of bron saying "educate" seems to be that he's taking China's side or saying stop fucking with his $. Which i think is unfair but also kinda Bron's fault for wording it the way he did.

... he shouldn't have called him "ignorant" about "the situation"


>RE: i don't think he was referencing the entire China/HK situation though
>i think it was more in line with what cocobrotha2 said in his
>second line
>
> "the point LeBron was trying to make (poorly) is Morey put
>the league, a couple teams in China at the time and many of
>it's most popular players at risk on some ill-conceived whim.
>Morey misconstrued how sensitive China was to the topic and
>how invested the league and many players are in the Chinese
>market."
>
>and there's an argument to be made against that as well on
>whether or not that's a cowardly take, but the interpretation
>of bron saying "educate" seems to be that he's taking China's
>side or saying stop fucking with his $. Which i think is
>unfair but also kinda Bron's fault for wording it the way he
>did.
>

his initial post. And that apology was before LeBron ever said anything

https://twitter.com/dmorey/status/1181000808399114240

"1/ I did not intend my tweet to cause any offense to Rockets fans and friends of mine in China. I was merely voicing one thought, based on one interpretation, of one complicated event. I have had a lot of opportunity since that tweet to hear and consider other perspectives.


8:18 PM · Oct 6, 2019

https://twitter.com/dmorey/status/1181000809363857409

"2/ I have always appreciated the significant support our Chinese fans and sponsors have provided and I would hope that those who are upset will know that offending or misunderstanding them was not my intention. My tweets are my own and in no way represent the Rockets or the NBA."

8:18 PM · Oct 6, 2019

before he sent it


then the rockets would have to fire him.


or the nba and the rockets would have to sever their ties with china. which they aren't going to do.

so...

is he ignorant of what would happen or should he be fired for intentionally fucking things up?

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

China burned down the whole relationship over a re-tweeted meme!

Morey probably thought he'd get a warning from the NBA at worst. He has to know how much the NBA and the Rockets (through Yao Ming) are invested in China but he really didn't seem to be aware of just how sensitive they are to criticism or, one could argue, how serious of a threat the Chinese government sees in the NBA.

but it's SO FUCKING DUMB it's hard to believe.

and the unsaid part of lebron's statement is that all the players going on this trip, and that were a part of USA basketball, were warned about this specific thing by the league.

but morey apparently doesn't know?

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

... were pretty much from Silver/league execs telling him "you can't fuck up our money like that" lol.

I don't think he really regrets what he said outside of the fact that he put his job in jeopardy because of the league's affiliation with/dependence on its relationship w/China.

He basically re-tweeted a meme... with very little, if any, commentary.

I believe he didn't think this through at all. He likely knows how invested the NBA and the Rockets, in particular with their Yao Ming association, are in China but wasn't expecting China to burn it all down for something he likely casually re-tweeted.

>He's basically saying nobody (Morey for example) should speak
>on the issue, lest we upset the Chinese government.
>
>
>


he said

"So many people could have been harmed not only financially but physically, emotionally and spiritually. So just be careful with what we tweet, and we say, and we do"

and followed it up with a tweet

"Let me clear up the confusion. I do not believe there was any consideration for the consequences and ramifications of (Morey's) tweet. I'm not discussing the substance. Others can talk About that

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

Enes Kanter: I will not be silenced over Turkey
By Enes Kanter,October 10, 2019, 4:33 p.m.
135
Enes Kanter plays center for the Celtics.
Enes Kanter plays center for the Celtics.JOHN TLUMACKI/GLOBE STAFF/GLOBE STAFF

“Go to your father’s mosque. You’re a traitor!” yelled one of the protesters who came to harass me as I was leaving a mosque after my Friday prayer service in Boston last week. As an outspoken critic of authoritarian president Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey, it’s what I’ve come to expect.

As soon as my fellow Celtics teammate, Tacko Fall, and I left the mosque, several people, apparently sympathizers of Erdogan, called me names and harassed me. Other worshippers defended me at an hour when we celebrate peace and say prayers.

This is not an isolated incident. It came less than two weeks after Turkish ministers gathered with members of the Turkish community in New York, where they bragged about canceling my events and chasing me down in the United States. Turkish ministers encouraged them to keep it up.

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One of the participants mentioned the name of the mosque I frequent for a Friday prayer in Boston, prompting praise by Turkish finance minister Berat Albayrak, who is also Erdogan’s son-in law. So it wasn’t a surprise when pro-Erdogan people gathered outside my mosque to harass me.

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Constant pressure by Turkish consulates across the United States, as well as pervasive and continual harassment by the government in Turkey, has so far failed to stifle my dissent. As they increase the pressure, I raise my voice. I won’t be deterred. They’re wasting their time.

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How can I stay silent? There are tens of thousands of people — including teachers, doctors, members of the judiciary and military, lawyers, bureaucrats, journalists, and activists — in prisons for years just because they’re not die-hard followers of Erdogan. Hundreds of babies are growing up in small prison cells with their mothers. Democracy today is on life support, if not dead, and anyone who speaks up faces prison time.

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RELATED: Enes Kanter says he was harassed outside of Cambridge mosque

I am immensely blessed to be in America. This country has given me so much since I came here from Turkey as a teenager, and I feel obliged to give back to the community. I spent the summer crisscrossing the nation, holding 50 basketball camps for kids in 30 states. It has been a pleasure to see kids learning team play and leadership while having fun.

Immediately after the horrible mass shooting in El Paso, Texas, where 22 people were killed, I held one of my basketball camps in the grieving city. My goal was to send an unmistakable message to those who promote hate, and to stand with the people of El Paso at a time of difficulty. This is how we triumph over evil.

Planning these camps is no easy task. While my basketball camp team had been scrambling to hold one camp after another, Turkish diplomats were busy calling and intimidating venues to cancel them, including the one we planned in Boston.

Basketball is my escape. Whenever I am on the court with my teammates, either practicing or playing a game, I focus entirely on basketball. If I were to bring any of these conversations to the court, it would be very selfish of me. But as soon as I step off the court, these questions come to my mind: What can I do for innocent people in Turkey who are suffering? Am I doing enough? How can I raise awareness?

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Professional athletes have an enormous opportunity to be a source of inspiration for the younger generation, lead by example, and prove to them that as long as you stand up for what you believe in, everything is possible. I am looking forward to giving my best to the Boston Celtics and enjoying this new chapter of my NBA career with people in this great city who have welcomed me warmly.

RELATED: People who confronted Kanter didn’t commit a crime, police say

I have a prominent platform and I want to use it to promote respect for human rights, democracy, and personal freedom. For me, this is bigger than basketball. Being a champion of tens of thousands of voiceless people back in my home country carries a risk that includes death threats and arrest warrants.

Earlier this year, Turkey issued an Interpol Red Notice to hunt me down for being a “terrorist.” I was humbled by the overwhelming support I received from fans and public figures. This is what motivates me to keep going.

I would languish in prison if I were in Turkey. Being apart from my family and friends has taken an enormous toll on me. But nothing good comes easy.

I want to thank everyone, including politicians, government officials, journalists, activists, other public figures, and the fans for standing by me during this challenging period. It encourages me to keep it up, and it gives me extra strength on the court.

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I have been receiving death threats for years now. This is the price I am ready to pay if this is what it takes to stand up for what I believe is right. It’s worth it.

Enes Kanter is a center for the Boston Celtics.
America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.

Enes Kanter
@EnesKanter
-Haven’t seen or talked to my family 5 years
-Jailed my dad
-My siblings can’t find jobs
-Revoked my passport
-International arrest warrant
-My family can’t leave the country
-Got Death Threats everyday
-Got attacked, harassed
-Tried to kidnap me in Indonesia

FREEDOM IS NOT FREE

8:34 PM - 14 Oct 2019 from Boston, MA

America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.

I note that enes hasn't said anything about china either, and note that other nba players haven't said anything about enes' situation.

they just don't talk about this shit publicly

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

ESPN cut to commercial before he could finish his sentence

America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.

Everyone doesn't have to have a strong opinion on everything. I hate when people shove mics in people's faces as if that obligates them to comment (see Steve Kerr's cameo in all this).

But LeBron's vibe came off more as stop all this foolishness cause it's messing up our money.
This foolishness being advocating for freedom in Hong Kong.

he specifically told reporters after those comments that it wasn't about the content of the tweet.

I think he's pissed off because every time the players have protested (which has been very few times, they don't usually say shit about shit) they've been very careful and have worked with the league, likely with the league implying that if they didn't there might be punishment.


morey didn't coordinate shit with anyone, didn't do anything he had a strong belief in and stood behind, fcked up everyone's everything and....other than a dressing down by the team owner, got no punishment for it.


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

the wrong of Bron is matched by Morey cowering behind what he started
You think Bron would have every come out his mouth about China on his own?
Morey at home
Bron in China.....I would have thrown him under the bus too lol

also if you mad at Bron with this...remember Tamir Rice and his reaction

to a country where freedom ain't quite so free

and you ended up on lockdown in your hotel because one of the managers in your company WHO AIN'T EVEN ON THE TRIP

sent out a tweet that they deleted five minutes later but instigated an international uproar -- wrong, right or otherwise


you'd come home ready to punch that motherfucker in the face, I think.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

all put at risk over morey's dumb ass statement

What was so dumb about it?

https://media4.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2019_41/3042031/191007-nba-tweet-daryl-morey-ac-532p_fa744150a4b466f08c72e689f1b2da15.fit-560w.jpg

at the time, and subject to China's laws.
And therefore at physical risk, and he ain't.
Plus Morey's org (the rockets) has been capitalizing off China for two decades.
China been china that whole time

which is exactly what lebron said.


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

just wanted to get that tweet off: and count the likes and Retweets


this is all a good learning lesson in: if you're famous, don't try and tweet about some shit if you aint ready to answer some follow-up questions

I just don’t see how that put any American nba folk over there in danger like you say


Maybe iont fully understand how tight it is over there tho

but it was at least a very uncertain situation, and I do believe that the players feared for their safety, whether from the government or whoever.


you have to remember -- they didn't know what happened because they were already in the air. landed in china where everything is blocked and you can only get real internet if you have a vpn that's working which is intermittent, so you're getting at most 1/4 of the story, drip fed slowly.


edit -- also, I believe a lot of lebron's anger and his statement is about people who were over there who aren't lebron, and had a bad week bc of the tweet. kuzma. their business partners in China who can't just fly back to the US

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

What Bron said was truth. More people are making more out of what he said instead of Morey comments which started the whole issue. Morey’s comments could’ve jeopardized the lives of everyone that went over.

all of em'

He doesn't even know what he's talking about.

Talk about cancel culture.
China cancels for real if folks don't act right. And that got businesses shaking in their boots.

Dior is groveling because they left Taiwan off a map of China.
Other companies facing the same issues. Forced to bend the knee to make it right again.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/17/business/dior-china-apology-trnd/index.html

Add Christian Dior to the growing list of Western brands tangling with China.

The French fashion house issued an apology Thursday over a map of China used during a presentation that didn't include Taiwan. The small island is a self-ruled democracy that Beijing insists be treated as part of its "one China" initiative.
The message posted on Dior's verified Weibo account said it was an employee's fault, and that it supports China's "sovereignty and territorial integrity." It also wrote that it will investigate the incident, which happened Wednesday at a university in China.

Dior is the latest Western company to make concessions in order to do business in China's coveted consumer market, particularly on the issue of Taiwan. Three US-based airlines caved to Chinese demands to change drop-down menus and maps to read "Taiwan, China" rather than simply "Taiwan."
Gap (GPS) last year apologized for a T-shirt with a map of China that did not include Taiwan. Zara also came under fire over similar issues on its website in China and apologized.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

http://i.imgur.com/c7c8aDx.jpg

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

this is nothing new

American and European businesses have been lusting over China's population forever. They see incredible growth opportunities but the Chinese have been (wisely) using Western businesses eagerness to copy their business practices or to outright steal their intellectual property.

An American company can't do business in China without a Chinese partner and that partner company is often carefully watching everything the American company is doing so that they can eventually do it themselves. It's a smart tactic that, frankly, African countries should do as well but they don't have the leverage that China has with it's 1.4 billion people. American companies know that they're basically going to be teaching their future competitors but they keep doing it.

On top of that, you also have the cultural and political issues. Our government allows American companies to do business over there partially bc it's believed that economic trade will indirectly lead to the propagation of Western political ideals into China. But what we're increasingly seeing is that the Chinese government is using it's leverage to export THEIR politics.