I have a friend on a fixed income whose SSI check posted a little late last month and because he has "overdraft protection" he's been hit with about $2200 in "service fees."

Needless to say his $900 rent check didn't go through. I unless we can stop his next direct deposit from going in he'll lose another $900.

He does not remember opting into "over draft protection" and I am going to help him look at how the fees occurred and try to get the bank to reverse the fees if possible.

I'm basically going to cover the difference for him if we can get it to a "reasonable' state where all money he actually spent is paid.

(I don't know how it got this high, I'll bet it is that they were holding money back to cover the initial overdraft and his usual grocery shopping/fast food/online stuff all hit a $35 fee and continued until he actually went in the bank to withdraw some money and they told him that a month's worth of transactions have incurred the fee. I'm asking him to pull records so we can calculate it)

But it's very likely we'll have to get him another bank account and close that one. and this is a credit union.

Who in their right mind would opt-in for overdraft "protection?"

Question: Anyone have experience/suggestions on with how to deal with this? I know he's FUCKED - but i want to minimize the amount of fuckage.

$2200 in fees seems extremely high. I thought it was like $40 per overdrawn transaction? We're there like 50 things getting paid all at the same time or am I misunderstanding

and its usually connected to a credit card.

But is the bank actually referring to it as "overdraft protection" or is that what your friend is calling it.

Most banks offer an option where you can turn on an "advance" feature thru your debit card where in some cases your bank will allow transactions to go through for more money than you actually have available, however you would have to pay a fee for each item that posts against a negative balance

That CAN work out in the customers favor if they use it properly (make ONE large ATM withdrawal to od your account and spend cash for the month, this way you only get hit with the fee ONCE instead of making a bunch of small purchases while you're overdrawn and racking up fees)

I'm curious over what time period your friend managed to rack up 2K in OD fees, most banks limit the amount of overdraft fees you can get per day.

When you/your friend calls find out how/when he turned on that feature, he might have been prompted to turn it on while signing into online banking.

or try to help them get thru the initial verification when they call in.

This usually results in their profile being locked and then having to come into their Bank in person.

>But is the bank actually referring to it as "overdraft
>protection" or is that what your friend is calling it.

Not sure, I need to see the records. They offer "Overdraft protection" and something called "Courtesy Pay." Each has a fee starting at $27 per occurrence, with a max of 5 a day.


>I'm curious over what time period your friend managed to rack
>up 2K in OD fees, most banks limit the amount of overdraft
>fees you can get per day.

This seems to have taken over the place of a month. he wasn't notified by text, phone, email, or postal mail. I don't think he banks online at all.

I can only imagine it's because of series of funds behind withheld, fees coming in, and then everything sorted to transact STRONGLY in the banks favor to maximize the amount of service fees they collect.

I need to see the records. Because if he had $800 on day and was expecting a deposit of $1000 to come in that arrived a few days he pay have written a check for $900 that wouldn't clear and while it was being held another round of bill payments came in that also hit the fee. Some transactions may have been retried several times by automated systems.

It seems WILD.

(Hell it could have been he got depressed or manic and did a bunch of stupid shit - but he claims he did not, only the records will tell the story.)

>When you/your friend calls find out how/when he turned on that
>feature, he might have been prompted to turn it on while
>signing into online banking.

We will be going down there together once I review his records with him and talk to their bankers.

First we need to stop any future money from being deposited into that account.

Second we need to establish another bank account at a different bank in case we have to close this one.

Then: The strategy is figure out what happened first, then go down ask that they refund all services fees, and if there's any amount owed once all the fees are removed for me to pay it for him. That's the best case scenario.

Worst case is they refund nothing, keep all his money and try to collect from him and he's 1 month behind on rent.

Anyway you do it he'll be homeless without my help. And homie ain't moving in with me.

Not trying to roast your friend but I check my account every day or 2. No way I could go a whole month without checking my account if I was low income. Seems like when I was struggling I checked it even more but then again, when funds are low I don’t like reminding myself by looking at my account.

If dude has overdraft protection wouldn’t he get alerts from the bank? Letters in the mail?

Something doesn’t sound right.

OP's friend should also check their last 2-3 statements to make sure there aren't any unauthorized transaction.

I doubt it's $2200 in fees. Go and talk to a branch manager and see if they can reverse some fees.

www.Tupreme.com

And get direct deposit through that.

the 2200 might be fees and transactions that the bank paid. So he may OWE the bank 2200.

Curious to see how this turns out.

Anytime someone calls with a bill and you tell them to bring the bill so you can pay it directly and they don’t immediately come over? Sketchy.

.

I still have no ideas what's going on - very typical for this friend because he probably went into a depressive state because of this.

>I still have no ideas what's going on - very typical for this
>friend because he probably went into a depressive state
>because of this.
>

He won't be awake until then.

He's really Bi-polar in a very clinical sense. So I do not expect him to man-up or get-over-it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipolar_disorder#Depressive_episodes

It's no joke.

I hope this works out as well as it can.. your friend is lucky to have you as one.

So it's going into that overdrawn account.

This means he'll be at least 2 months behind on rent, big time in debt to the bank still, and have no way of getting out of the hole.

We'll see if there's a way out of this for me - but I doubt it. I'll likely have to bail him out and never see the money again.

I wonder how I get out of this cycle?

that sucks...he' gonna be more depressed too, good that he has you as a friend

>So it's going into that overdrawn account.
>
>This means he'll be at least 2 months behind on rent, big time
>in debt to the bank still, and have no way of getting out of
>the hole.
>
>We'll see if there's a way out of this for me - but I doubt
>it. I'll likely have to bail him out and never see the money
>again.
>
>I wonder how I get out of this cycle?
>

fees can get removed. If you explain that the first deposit posted late it's likely that they'll either remove all the fees from the first couple days, or they will change it to one overdraft fee per day overdrawn instead of for each transaction.

Shame them on twitter even if you have to.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

RE: Update - he could not stop the SSI payment

too badly.

Then, he can set an arrangement to pay the credit union back.

Courtesy Pay has hurt many people in the past. I'm with USAA and they don't play that but I know people in credit unions who have been crushed, at times, because of it.

I could definitely see that getting out of hand.

$1k to act a fool with.

None of my accounts have courtesy pay or overdraft protection. I move stuff around if I need to. In my younger days, I was the dumbest when it came to making smart financial decisions. So, now, I don't want them problems.

Wonder if I use a non-USAA card for this. Then, I may consider it.

https://money.cnn.com/2017/02/22/investing/atm-overdraft-fees-rise/index.html

DAMNED SHAME!

Add this to the payday loan scams that I'm sure they're in on and you'll see that poor people (or financially irresponsible people or folks who are down on their luck) are screwed one way or the other.

.

Looking at the sequence of events is this:
On October 20th his $900 rent check bounced becuase he had only $675 in the bank - and they held it open for a few days but ultimately rejected it. During that time he got 2 overdraft fees for other items.

Once the check bounced he had approx $600 in the bank, which he slowly used for groceries and renting Redbox/etc. (No big purchases like X-boxes or $300 bar bills.)

He SHOULD have know n that he didn't have that money just by using maths but he didn't.

I've been broke before I too used to use the "Try the debit card and if it works then you have the money" strategy. This was thwarted because some some reason he had overdraft protection on (more on this later.)

I can't recall the details of his records but at some before his SSI check was deposited he hit a BUNCH of fees - something like 27 in 2 weeks. So for $1000 in charges he made he got hit with $900 in overdraft fees. He's in the hole $191 dollars with them now.

He has not done anything else yet - but ...
1)I gave him $100 to open a new checking account TODAY.
2)Once the account is open he has to call SSI and get it routed to the new account.
3)I am asking him to pull complete banking records electronically for as long as possible - at least until when these fees started, but hopefully months before that.
4)We will (he and I) go in to the branch with his records and ..
a)Challenge them to prove he opted in to overdraft. He claims to have no memory of ever opting into it (and hopefully his bank records from previous months will show this to be the case.)
b)If they do prove it or we can't fight it, then ask very nicely for all (or some) of the fees to be waived.

In any case we will never contest the amount he actually spent - he made the purchase so he owes for it - but man, if the ATM card would have stopped working he'd have been in a much better situation now. (Meaning I'd just loan/gift him a few hundred dollars.)

Absolute best case scenario is he comes out with a few hundred in his pocket, medium case is that the fees vs. the amount he is in arrears evens out, worst case - he's where he is at today.

He's still 2 months of bounced rent checks behind.

But I see $2.97 Redbox rentals that incur a $27.00 fee - and soda purchases for $1.25 that also incur a $27.00 fee.


Also: No email/phone or mail notification was ever sent to him, until yesterday when a notice that he is $191 in the negative came in - we're going to ask why he was not notified - isn't that standard procedure?

He's been with this credit union for 20 years, maybe they'll cut him some slack.

And the new bank we'll get him 2 checking accounts - on for SSI that he will write rent checks from ONLY - and the other for living expenses/ATM/etc.

you have to actively opt OUT of it, not the other way around.


"Get ready....for your blessing....."

The landlord charging any fees too?

>The landlord charging any fees too?

I think he'll just want to be made whole - if he got charged a fee then my friend has to pay it . Landlord has not attempted to deposit the December rent so he doesn't know my friend is 2 months behind.

I think my friend will ultimately not be able to stay in his house, since rent is $950 and his income is $900, his girlfriend stopped paying rents months ago and broke up with him, and he can'g get a roommate until she leaves AND we clean the FUCK out of the dusty and cluttered house.

Even with a roommate, after expense he'll have only $500 a month for food and clothes/etc. We have to try to get him on Section 8 or something.

but to receive text messages from your bank you need to opt in/agree to receive them since you could end up paying data fees.

I don't know if there's any type of regulation on Sending E-mails to customers, but once again that's usually something you would have to sign up for.

"Get ready....for your blessing....."

That’s insane....

BUT I have to add.

Dudes math is off line shit. If he makes $900 and his rent is $950 how the hell does he think he can swipe for movies and sodas?

Get that man a firestick or something.

and his ex lives with him rent free?

Man.. that dude has a lot going on.

>That’s insane....
>
>BUT I have to add.
>
>Dudes math is off line shit. If he makes $900 and his rent is
>$950 how the hell does he think he can swipe for movies and
>sodas?

His situation has changed because of the girlfriend no longer bringing in money AND I'm sure that his bi-polar depression and new depression for his GF breaking up with him, not paying money towards rent, all contributed to it. It seems to have have happened in about a 3 week period.

Two things: If overdraft was not turned on he'd have bounced a rent check and knew he was in debt and he may have reached out earlier. But it WOULD have stopped the around $1000 in fees that was caused by overdraft "protection" being on.

He's fucked, no doubt.

>Get that man a firestick or something.
I pay for his cable modem ($30) for the last few months so he can stream, but dude prolly wanted to watch something at Redbox and figured (wrongly) if he didn't have the money it'd just get denied.

Make no mistake - he spent the money and his maths do not add up - I am not denying that at all.

>and his ex lives with him rent free?
>Man.. that dude has a lot going on.

He's so fucked up/depressed right now.

I told him to give his ex-GF a Pay or Quit notice. She needs to go sleep on people's couches or sleep in her car.

I think it's likely we'll have to commit him for a little while - we did about 4 years ago (at his request - we just helped) and he stayed in the hospital for a few weeks. But if that happens now with no GF then he'll definitely lose his place - and I'll have a 3rd cat to take care of. And then he'll be houseless/homeless.

And no - he can't move in with me - he'd be a nightmare to live with - and also ANOTHER friend is currently staying on my couch because he lost his job.

If I could get his GF out then I might just move my other friend in, pay 3 months of their rent and stuff (think $3,000) and get an IOU from them and hopefully they'll catch up and start to pay me back in 6 months to a year.

I've loaned both money in the past and they have paid me back - but it took a long time.

dont know how you deal

And the SSI is still pointing at the old account.

I was like "WTF dude?" and He was all "I got 10 days before blah blah blah."

He might be too far gone to help.

Because if another fucking check gets taken by the bank I'm going wash my hands of it. SWEAR TO GOD!

Sometimes people can't help themselves and you shouldn't be brought into a toxic situation. That's what this sounds like on paper. You tried - he didn't get it. That sucks, but no reason for you to feel like you should do more, or you failed or whatever.

My brother isn't dissimilar. Bipolar, depressed, and terrible with his finances despite having just about everything set up for him. The more questions I'd ask or suggestions I'd have to help him, he'd get more mad or/and flustered. It's just not worth it - if THE doesn't care, and you can't get through to him, don't frustrate yourself.

I've been in situation where my neck was extended with folks with emotional struggles, not so much financially but emotionally, and it was trying. So, for you to stand-in for the work family ought to do is worth applauding.

But yeah, there are and should be conditions to the support you offer.

Setting him up in a psychiatric-care facility might be best. It's clear he isn't able to cope with these recent stresses and getting some time away and even getting his meds fine-tuned might be the boost he needs.

But the helplessness he's showing is the worst. There's nothing you can do to pull him out of that. Unfortunately it's simply part of the condition of depression, bipolar and other forms. I'm sure you want to kind of tug at him to give him positive momentum, but you seem to know that it is only going to aggravate him and ultimately be counter-productive.

It hurts being involved with folks who are struggling. You don't want to be the person who turns your back on them when their at their worst. You wouldn't want someone to turn you away in a time of need.

But you're not a professional and your only obligation as a friend would be to offer and then follow thru if you can. You've done all you can.

Have you thought about getting your friend in a group home? I don't know the timeline for getting him accepted tho.

You gave him the money to open an account?

Man listen.

www.Tupreme.com

but they are family.

Not sure I could remain friends with folks who always need my financial assistance.

power of attorney to take over and fully manage his finances you probably need to back away.

Did here from my friend until late last night via text he says:
"So, yeah, I'm probably screwed,."

I replied "Any details?"

He replies "Nah."

I replied "You should talk to someone at social services of your doctor."

No reply yet.

I see a lot of possibilities:

1)He did not open the account because he did not leave the house.

2)He did go to the new credit union to open the account and could not. (Bad credit or bounced checks at the other bank might prevent it?)

3)He did open the account and then called SSI and they said "Well it's so late your check will go to the old account and there's no way to stop it."

We went to see Spiderverse on christmas (I paid) and here are the updates:

1)The original overdrawn account is *going to be closed* by the bank on some certain date if he takes no action to make it current.

2)He did open the new account at a new bank..

3)He did call Social Security to get money routed to the new account - but he did it too late to stop this month's check from being transferred to the overdrawn account. (You have to make changes by the 14th of the month.) So that money is on the way to the old/overdrawn account this time - and future payments go to the new account.

But bad stuff:
1)He has not called/gone to the old bank to attempt to get some fees refunded.

Theory: I've had friends who are desperate in the past and they "shut down" their brains - I think it's some biological function or something. Objectively I told him "You're one stupid motherfucker to not even have called them and made an attempt to get some money back, you stupid motherfucker." I know that helps.

2)He has not actively closed the old overdrawn account.

Again, his brain is not working clearly - he's smart enough to know to do this. (We went to the same high school and took the same economics class which specifically talked about how to bank/balance a checkbook/etc."

He says "The bank said they old account would be closed before the date of the transfer so the account should be closed and maybe it'll bounce back to SSI and I can get the full amount from them at some point."

And I'm like "1)Close that fucking account NOW!! Not just checking - the entire account. 2)Notify your bank/tell them to stop accepting any transfers into those accounts."

Here's what is GOING to happen now:
1)The money from SSI arrives/is available in his overdrawn account on the 28th - which means the transfer from SSI to the bank probably started on the 26th or 27th. If the account is open the old bank will accept the funds - take any money he owes them out - and either keep the account open or close it and send him a check for the remaining amount.

2)The account is already closed but they accept the transfer, take their fees, then send the rest back to SSI which he has to tell to send to him via another method.

But his depression is certainly not allowing him make rational decisions. OR he's been poor so long he feels powerless around money - and allows (passively) himself to be taken advantage of by institutions. Like there's no way to stop it so why even try to minimize it.

I told him he needs to talk to his doctor and/or social worker to ask for help - because he's not able to help himself - and that's okay - it's part of his illness.

Friend got Dec 2018 SSI payment - the old bank got it, took the money he owed them out and friend is left with $710.

Friend also dog-sat for several weeks and made $600 dollars. He spent it ALL without paying any towards rent.

Friend's girls moved out - so he's trying (poorly) to rent the room.

Friend's landlord made a deal he had to just pay Jan 2019 rent in full - get a roommate that passes a credit check of just "no evictions" and keep current at the rent and start to pay back rent (unknown amount I assume it's at least $2700.)

So my friend's a FUCKING IDIOT and just assumed he'd be able to magically rent out the room - but i went over and the house is a fucking wreck. Filth all over the stove. Room being rented has no light and has crap in it so not move in ready - bathroom has 1 door blocked, common front room is dusty as shit, has tons of horder-LIGHT clutter and he didn't clean it at all. it sucks.

He had some people put in applications and pass the credit check-- and one said he was going to move in but he didn't. I suspect he got a place less filthy.

So Friend he's at least $250 short on rent - and the house is a mess.

I bought about $40 dollar worth of cleaning supplies/garbage bags and boxes and dropped them off last week- I don't know if he's used them at all.

Oh, and another Friend - Friend #2 also got evicted from his place and I've let him crash at my house for 4 weeks - give just him 3 weeks notice to leave even if he's on the streets.

Trying to work out a deal where I loan both some money - they live together and hopefully stay off the streets.

I think it will fail and they're both fucked - but it's causing me so much stress I can't enjoy life.

Plus i got my own shit going on.

>Friend got Dec 2018 SSI payment - the old bank got it, took
>the money he owed them out and friend is left with $710.
>
>Friend also dog-sat for several weeks and made $600 dollars.
>He spent it ALL without paying any towards rent.
>
>Friend's girls moved out - so he's trying (poorly) to rent the
>room.
>
>Friend's landlord made a deal he had to just pay Jan 2019 rent
>in full - get a roommate that passes a credit check of just
>"no evictions" and keep current at the rent and start to pay
>back rent (unknown amount I assume it's at least $2700.)
>
>So my friend's a FUCKING IDIOT and just assumed he'd be able
>to magically rent out the room - but i went over and the house
>is a fucking wreck. Filth all over the stove. Room being
>rented has no light and has crap in it so not move in ready -
>bathroom has 1 door blocked, common front room is dusty as
>shit, has tons of horder-LIGHT clutter and he didn't clean it
>at all. it sucks.
>
>He had some people put in applications and pass the credit
>check-- and one said he was going to move in but he didn't. I
>suspect he got a place less filthy.
>
>So Friend he's at least $250 short on rent - and the house is
>a mess.
>
>I bought about $40 dollar worth of cleaning supplies/garbage
>bags and boxes and dropped them off last week- I don't know if
>he's used them at all.
>
>Oh, and another Friend - Friend #2 also got evicted from his
>place and I've let him crash at my house for 4 weeks - give
>just him 3 weeks notice to leave even if he's on the streets.
>
>Trying to work out a deal where I loan both some money - they
>live together and hopefully stay off the streets.
>
>I think it will fail and they're both fucked - but it's
>causing me so much stress I can't enjoy life.
>
>Plus i got my own shit going on.
>
>
>

Its time to let him go

youre low-key enabling him




>Friend got Dec 2018 SSI payment - the old bank got it, took
>the money he owed them out and friend is left with $710.
>
>Friend also dog-sat for several weeks and made $600 dollars.
>He spent it ALL without paying any towards rent.
>
>Friend's girls moved out - so he's trying (poorly) to rent the
>room.
>
>Friend's landlord made a deal he had to just pay Jan 2019 rent
>in full - get a roommate that passes a credit check of just
>"no evictions" and keep current at the rent and start to pay
>back rent (unknown amount I assume it's at least $2700.)
>
>So my friend's a FUCKING IDIOT and just assumed he'd be able
>to magically rent out the room - but i went over and the house
>is a fucking wreck. Filth all over the stove. Room being
>rented has no light and has crap in it so not move in ready -
>bathroom has 1 door blocked, common front room is dusty as
>shit, has tons of horder-LIGHT clutter and he didn't clean it
>at all. it sucks.
>
>He had some people put in applications and pass the credit
>check-- and one said he was going to move in but he didn't. I
>suspect he got a place less filthy.
>
>So Friend he's at least $250 short on rent - and the house is
>a mess.
>
>I bought about $40 dollar worth of cleaning supplies/garbage
>bags and boxes and dropped them off last week- I don't know if
>he's used them at all.
>
>Oh, and another Friend - Friend #2 also got evicted from his
>place and I've let him crash at my house for 4 weeks - give
>just him 3 weeks notice to leave even if he's on the streets.
>
>Trying to work out a deal where I loan both some money - they
>live together and hopefully stay off the streets.
>
>I think it will fail and they're both fucked - but it's
>causing me so much stress I can't enjoy life.
>
>Plus i got my own shit going on.
>
>
>

>Its time to let him go
>
>youre low-key enabling him
>
Yeah, that's what's happening - although it's been minimal support - but yes, I have to cut both of them off. I'll likely help the one this time with about $300 and I'm out - and let the other stay for a few more weeks than he's cut off too. If I put a limit on it and stick to it then I'll be fine.

Because this is just people living badly - neither have had an emergency to cause this it's poor decision or just life not working out as well as they'd hoped.

At least they're not alcoholics or drug addicts - I cut those types off in my 20s and haven't picked any up since then.

> or just life not working out as well as they'd hoped.

With someone backing them as you've admirably done, they've got no reason to get their stuff together.

You may have done it all with the greatest intentions but they're obviously not willing to meet your kindness with any type of smarts or drive to do for self.

>>Its time to let him go
>>
>>youre low-key enabling him
>>
>Yeah, that's what's happening - although it's been minimal
>support -

dude..youre cleaning up his living room (he wont even do that lol)...thats MAJOR not to mention the hand holding with his finances etc etc and lending..nah..GIVING money away to them (you know u aint ever gettng that back)..youve done major..and its probably not the first time


>
>At least they're not alcoholics or drug addicts - I cut those
>types off in my 20s and haven't picked any up since then.

These dudes are the same thing

Handle dont rationalize..youre a good dude..i get it, these are your friends..but you have to stop the caretaking...

or cut him off.

I’m stressed just reading this.

>or cut him off.
>
>I’m stressed just reading this.

>Friend got Dec 2018 SSI payment - the old bank got it, took
>the money he owed them out and friend is left with $710.
>
>Friend also dog-sat for several weeks and made $600 dollars.
>He spent it ALL without paying any towards rent.
>
>Friend's girls moved out - so he's trying (poorly) to rent the
>room.
>
>Friend's landlord made a deal he had to just pay Jan 2019 rent
>in full - get a roommate that passes a credit check of just
>"no evictions" and keep current at the rent and start to pay
>back rent (unknown amount I assume it's at least $2700.)
>
>So my friend's a FUCKING IDIOT and just assumed he'd be able
>to magically rent out the room - but i went over and the house
>is a fucking wreck. Filth all over the stove. Room being
>rented has no light and has crap in it so not move in ready -
>bathroom has 1 door blocked, common front room is dusty as
>shit, has tons of horder-LIGHT clutter and he didn't clean it
>at all. it sucks.
>
>He had some people put in applications and pass the credit
>check-- and one said he was going to move in but he didn't. I
>suspect he got a place less filthy.
>
>So Friend he's at least $250 short on rent - and the house is
>a mess.
>
>I bought about $40 dollar worth of cleaning supplies/garbage
>bags and boxes and dropped them off last week- I don't know if
>he's used them at all.
>
>Oh, and another Friend - Friend #2 also got evicted from his
>place and I've let him crash at my house for 4 weeks - give
>just him 3 weeks notice to leave even if he's on the streets.
>
>Trying to work out a deal where I loan both some money - they
>live together and hopefully stay off the streets.
>
>I think it will fail and they're both fucked - but it's
>causing me so much stress I can't enjoy life.
>
>Plus i got my own shit going on.
>
>
>


Anti-gentrification, cheap alcohol & trying to look pretty in our twilight posting years (c) Big Reg
http://Tupreme.com

He's got a lot going on, don't get dragged down from his weight


You are a good friend to these people but know your limits

for me to accept his calls.
both 'friends' are abusing your loyalty and compassion.

dudes helped you hide the body after you killed someone or something. Most normal people aren't this loyal to family, let alone "friends".

They've got to have some kind of dirt on you for you to be this understanding.

Something is definitely up

I was starting to think his friend was really a bad ass chick that he was runnin' around with. And it was so good, he was willing to pu up with some serious financial missteps to keep it poppin'.

Friend 1 (overdraft blood) I've known since I was 17. That's 31 years ago.

I've loaned him money in the past and helped him out before - and with the exception of a streak of bad luck AND bad decision in the last 6 months he's always paid me back - and helped me when I needed help like moving furniture, or feeding my cat or helping my mom, other things.

Friend 2 I've know since 1990 - so 28 years.
Same exact deal as friend 1 - just met after high school. Always paid me back. Always helped when I asked - but slight less than friend 1. but less demanding/annoying than friend 1 on a friendship level. Way more mellow.



So it's just now that we're all nearing 50 that my life is going well and their's are falling apart. They've been falling apart slowing for years - while over the last 12 years my life has become much better/easier. I outright own my condo. I've had a job for the last 12 years and it pays well. They have no savings and are living hand to mouth.

But I've also been getting more anxiety as I get older - I plan more and I'm less willing to take risks with money.

its okay, folks are more accepting now.




just playing. i dont know how you do it but i kind of feel you.

the only thing you can do for these to GROWN MEN is to point BOTH OF THEM in the right direction of some Local or State level free educational training programs and shake free of them.

I believe in spiritual ties and circles of association, thus if you keep hanging on to them, all of their mess is gonna start hanging on to you. Eventually, you'll all be paddling in the same lifeboat. Bro, it's time to abandon ship or distance yourself to the point where you're only present to do a health and welfare check.

These two men need to get into a work rehabilitation program to help them acquire some new skills for employment.



.
.
Current Favorite Song: https://youtu.be/8v_KFHnPImY

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

Friend 1:
He has started cleaning his place - the room is clean and needs some attention like getting a screen for a window and repair the ceiling fan (or replace it) - but definitely livable now.

He has cleaned the stove completely, but needs to do refrig and cabinets next. Hopefully he's doing that today/now.

He is continuing to clean the house, and will try to get his clutter hidden away - but at least its progress and someone moving in might think its messy but he can say "The ex-roommate left a lot of stuff and I'm cleaning it all out now.

How I left it:I gave, as a gift - no repayment expected, $300 dollars so he could use his $710 and pay the rent for January.

I then clearly stated "I will not provide any financial support going forward." He understands.

If he can get a roommate to move in he should be okay unless the landlord kicks them out because of the issues in the past. But I think a clean room and less messy house combined with the area he lives in - which is VERY hip now - it is the "hot" part of San Diego - 30th street in North park between University and El Cajon.



Also told Friend #2 he had until Feb 7th to find another place to stay - he gets put out even if he's on the streets. I'll likely LOAN him some money to help, he has paid money back in a timely fashion before.

So on Feb 8th everything will be back to normal - and I'm a lot less stressed now because I know I can control my part in it all now.

.
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Current Favorite Song: https://youtu.be/8v_KFHnPImY

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

I loaned him some money - around $1200 which I have on paper that he'll start paying back $350.00 a month starting on March 18th.

So he's out - he stayed with me for about 5 weeks.

Friend #1 still has not rented the place. Also has not taken my advice to get a TON of his shit out of the house and to lower rent by$50-$100 just to get someone IN. He's probably not going to make it and will get evicted. At least he has a steady income that he could afford to rent a room somewhere.

My plans:
I am *honestly* thinking about getting rid of my sleeper sofa so guests have to sleep on the god damn floor.

With young kids no one wants to stay or could stay with Ian

When we first bought our house my wife had a “friend” stay with us and she tried to play like she was broke and would pay once she got her stipend for Grad school.

She tried to use white tears when I pressed my wife to get her to pay up. Told my wife to NEVER call someone a friend who only reaches out when they need something.

.
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“Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.” ~ Albert Einstein

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

No snark, but Case, you da most mispellingnest ninja up IN this muhfukka! I genuine laughed out loud at this shit!

.
.
“Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.” ~ Albert Einstein

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

I can accept everthing you've said without speculating on anything else other than the fact that life's pace is speeding up rapidly and your boys haven't been able to keep up.

If they're as old as I'm calculating based on what you've said....they might not make it.

just keep everything in perspective man. at some point you're going to have to back all the way up, or it'll be you.

what a world.

Friend 1 needs to get Section 8 if he can - I think he can. He'll never be able to work but he will always get like $900 a month - he'll have to rent a room and just be dirt poor at some point.

(He does have someone moving in on Sunday - but that could fall through, and every month could bring a new challenge.)

Friend 2 I don't know - he needs to find stability if he can. But there are no guarantees out here and nearly everyone is about 3-6 months away from being in a bind if they are unemployed.

I have more stability than most - but if I became disabled or went to jail (no reason to go to jail, but who knows shit happens) I'd be tough to maintain the stability.

Again, I've know these guys for nearly 30 years and they don't owe me money habitually - things are just tough for them now.



But I know that for me - I have to take steps away from the drama.

and it's rising.

Hang in there handle.

I love over in Hillcrest, born and raised in San Diego.

Yeah that is a desirable area and your friend should have no problem renting his room out.

Friend #1 with overdraft fees is doing okay as far as I know. He got a roommate, and he's in a manic phases where I think I may just cut off contact with him - because it makes him be in denial.

Friend #2 who I was letting stays with me and I gave him $1200 to go elsewhere is a problem.

He texted me the other day and asked if I had a hoodie he could use - I texted back and was like "maybe, I only got 2 hoodies one for exercise that stinks and one for me."

Well after a few more texts I'm getting a feeling and I ask "Are you on the streets?"

He replied "Some nights."

So long story short - he went to stay with another friend who is married but who has like a 4 bedroom house with only 2 people in it. That fell through for some reason - probably the wife didn't appreciate him there all day.

I asked "How much money do you have left" which he would not tell me a number - so I expect is nearly 0.

Also he said "Homeless people are fucking assholes" AND I haven't seen his laptop since I let him back in the house - so I think he may have gotten robbed.

I'm letting him stay until Feb 24th - maybe this time he'll get in a "I'm fucking fucked" mode and figure some shit out - otherwise he's on the streets again.

Letting him stay on my couch cost me no money - but I don't like it. My place is under 1000 sq/ft and the way its set up he's in the front room. He's not making messes or fucking things up - but I'd rather have my place be mine.

And I'm MAD that I couldn't get Friend 2 to move in with Friend 1 - people stay in denial even when they have jack shit. If they'd have followed my plan they both have houses and be stable at least until April 1st.

As long as he has you he isn’t going to get his shit together.

disappeared on his first day of work. Said that he'd lost his id and had to go pick it up since it was found on UMBC's campus. Dude just disappeared without saying a word.

Fast forward a couple of weeks...

Dude shows up to work 6 hours late on a Monday. He came in offering excuses to his manager to to me who said that he'd flown to ATL for the weekend and that the flight was delayed.

A couple more weeks later...

Dude showed up to work drunk as shit and with no socks on. It was early March and still cold enough to not be walking around with ashy ankles. Mofo said he was leaving early. Walked out and then, five minutes later, returned to his desk. Then, dude walked away a few minutes later after saying he didn't feel good. He disappeared to a conference room where he was found passed out. The guy claimed that he was feeling bad and left once medics arrived.

Called me from the hospital a few minutes later claiming to have been told that his heart was the issue. The cat never returned.

A couple weeks later...

I'm driving for Uber one weekend and saw a body, lying on the ground, in an alley. Got closer to him and realized it was him. Passed out with a blanket over his body.

Shook my head and kept going...

Didn't want anything to do with those problems.

All that to say... I hope your guys get it together.

I almost want to clown your gig for hiring dude.

Used to have homeless folks who would make these grand speeches when they would get a job and their own place. A few months later I would see them on the street living their worst life.

Shit was exhausting but at the same time... some of the excuses and stories these folks made when trying to hustle their way back into the shelter we’re amazing. Just terrible liars.

One time my boss’s daughter fell for a dude in the shelter and started showing up to scoop him up on days he wasn’t working. She even let him borrow her car, he wrecked that shit so fast.

A lot of mental shit in shelters but also a whole bunch of folks who are slaves to the bottle or drugs.

>One time my boss’s daughter fell for a dude in the shelter
>and started showing up to scoop him up on days he wasn’t
>working. She even let him borrow her car, he wrecked that shit
>so fast.

Everyone would say “go get a job, we all get up and work but you too good to work”

Dude would say he would only work for X amount of dollars but as soon as someone had a gig paying that much he would say “God told me to only work for Z amount of dollars”

>I almost want to clown your gig for hiring dude.

but damn! We were the only brothers on that entire floor too.

Being in IT, I'm usually the only brother at these companies I've been working for. So, having him there was cool until I realized dude was up to something.

I hope he's gotten it together by now. He sent me a request to connect on LinkedIn. I introduced that invitation to the "X".

E Warren, because there are other threads about her candidacy

but her policy knowledge on these financial issues is so important

I remember the times when you could get charged an overdraft fee
and an insufficient funds fee and keep getting charged ever day...
and a fee for not keep $5000 in checking
or credits cards charging you a late fee then an over the limit fee

Obama's appointment of Warren shut that down

I remember some people getting clowned here for posting about using payday loans,
I used them and that payday loan fee was often lower than paying bank fees
though many ethical lenders got shut down as well...

I remember nyc acting like monthly metrocards were so cost efficient not realizing
that amount is some peoples whole paycheck, (actually still happening)
my favorite metrocard was like $52 for a two-week unlimited which was discontinued
and never reconsidered, tourists liked the all-day $7 pass

basically, it is expensive to be broke
and the shutdown proved that many are broke without that next paycheck...

and living beyond your means in the 20teens is survival not always irresponsible

even W Fargo made amends with overdraft rewind

as a cynical genxer, I appreciate the millennial efforts -
afterpay
WP
mattresses in a box
levelup
stichfix
earnin
(and all of the Black people who thought of this stuff first)

lastly, you are a GOOD friend, not an enabler...

He basically stayed here on/off until April 5th. (Homeless and staying at my house around 3 months in total.)

I had loaned him up to that point $2600 - and had him sign paper saying he'd pay me back within 1 week of getting his inheritance - or the end of May, *whichever came first.*


On Friday April 5th he got the money for inheritance, which was basically like $55k . I loaned him $100 on that day for uBers/other stuff to make sure he could get to the lawyers, then the bank.

He got the money in an account, but could only access like $6k that first day, the rest might take until Tuesday. He got a hotel that night and hasn't stayed here since.

That Thursday April 11th I asked him via text when he was paying me back. It'd been a week since he got the money - and I expected for him to ask for a week from when he got all of it - that would have been fine.

Instead he sent me an animated GIF playing it off. He texted a few times over the next week but never mentioned money.

In the meantime I got a bunch of mail for him (he was using my address for the bank account) which was like his opening statement, his checks, a new ATM card/etc.

I didn't see him until Thursday April 18th, when he came over to pick the stuff up. I asked him how it's going - did he get a place/etc. But I also asked him to pay me the money, and that I'd take a check, and he played it off like "I'll pay you the money" but didn't give a date or even a reason as to why he couldn't do it that day - or on a day certain. (It wasn't a joke to me.)

So last night I wrote him an email asking to be paid immediately, reminding him the terms of the loan, and saying it was weighing on my mind and that I felt disrespected.

Well he PayPal'd me $1500 today, and he says he's sending another $1200 tomorrow but he also said this:

"Coming at me with an email like this because you cant wait a few days for the payment is kind of bullshit. You feel disrespected? Thats ridiculous.
I appreciate being able to stay at your house even though you where mostly as asshole the whole time, but thats fine. You'll get the rest of your payment, tomorrow
I'll expect an email to stating that you've been repaid once from you , then I think were done man."

I am a little hurt - but I think I realize that our friendship was probably done BEFORE he got in need. But still it's disappointing that someone I've known for 30 years would somehow come at ME for loaning them money, and letting them stay at my house (and eating my food) and it to end like this.

You should be celebrating the friendship's end.

And will be asking you to stay on the sofa again as soon as it's cold out.
On your sofa, for free, borrowing thousands of dollars, interest free, and calling you the asshole.

SMH

handle you're a saint man. I'd have choked this dude out years ago.

.
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“Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.” ~ Albert Einstein

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

getting the money back and losing the friend is the best situation

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“Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.” ~ Albert Einstein

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

I met dude back in 1990 - before Public Enemy's Fear of a Black Planet dropped.

I think the friendship ended a few years back but we'd still hang out once a month or less as time went on.

But when he's in need I think all of his other friends are like "Tough shit" and I wasn't - because who wants to see someone on the streets?

I think he's lost other friends over time - I wonder if its a similar situation - I'll talk to a few of them and see.

I wonder if we could have gotten on Judge Mathis if he didn't pay me back.

think of him?

>"I'll talk to a few of them and see."

Cut your losses and let the energy go.

If you do that, those cats may wanna know why you're asking about someone they don't deal with. Then, you'd potentially and unnecessarily be telling that guy's business.

Let it ride and K.I.M.

You've been told too many times before to move one even before the last lone. But even now you're acting like to can't let go.


.
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“Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.” ~ Albert Einstein

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

Isn’t a real friend.

He will come knocking too.

>RE: Damn. Any friend that makes you feel guilty for wanting to be repaid
>Isn’t a real friend.

Nevermind all the other shit. You loaned him money, your money, money you may or may not have needed. That's kinda besides the point .. it's YOUR FUCKING MONEY, and dude had promised to repay upon receipt of his inheritance ... and he has the balls to get angry with YOU for following up on the subject of repayment, a subject which he's been ignoring ???

Fuck this dude forever. There is not a single circumstance in which it is inappropriate for someone to ask about repayment of a loan. Not a single one.

I kinda understand why folks get mad when you ask to be repaid. Most people who borrow money or freeload have a weird relationship with money so when they finally get a few coins they want to enjoy that feeling.

Asking for your money makes you a creditor in their eyes.

Weird thing that happened to my wife one time is a girl lived with us a for a few and promised to pay at the end of her stay when she got her stipend for graduate school. But then she slipped up and said she had to dip into her savings. Fuuuuck that. I made her pay fast as fuck. She tried to use those tears. Then she turned around and said she would stay with some close friends who were going to charge her a shit load to stay.

Haven’t heard from her since.

It’s wild how close friends charge up front but still have the friend label. The people they try to get over ok aren’t viewed as friends. More like suckers.

I get what you're saying re: the psychology behind it but I still don't get it in practice. Like I think we've all been the borrower in a friendship, late to pay someone back. I definitely have. And in any instance where someone had to come to me twice (I've only let that happen a few times, fortunately) asking for repayment my response was embarrassment and coyness not anger.

>Most people who borrow money or freeload have a weird
>relationship with money so when they finally get a few coins
>they want to enjoy that feeling.

He prolly INTENDED to pay it back at some point, but handle fucking up his high talking that sober shit right now.

He'd've ran through before he ever got to his obligations.

left a note with his info so he could repay the damage

Then got mad when they called for the payment because in his mind her dad fixed the car so why was she tripping about getting repaid.

I asked him why he left a note if he didn’t intend on paying and couldn’t grasp how much of an asshole he was for that shit.

Dude was mad as shit they kept asking for their money.

But he intended to pay them if he ever won the lottery or money fell from the sky so that’s why he left the note. Said it was fucked up if we wouldn’t have left a note.

Dude was fucking gone. It wasn’t even his car he was driving.

He also had a bag of dirty clothes in his room that spontaneously combusted into flames.

>left a note with his info so he could repay the damage
>
>Then got mad when they called for the payment because in his
>mind her dad fixed the car so why was she tripping about
>getting repaid.
>
>I asked him why he left a note if he didn’t intend on paying
>and couldn’t grasp how much of an asshole he was for that
>shit.
>
>Dude was mad as shit they kept asking for their money.
>
>But he intended to pay them if he ever won the lottery or
>money fell from the sky so that’s why he left the note. Said
>it was fucked up if we wouldn’t have left a note.
>
>Dude was fucking gone. It wasn’t even his car he was
>driving.
>
>He also had a bag of dirty clothes in his room that
>spontaneously combusted into flames.

He's George AND Kramer.

It made me LOL.

Anti-gentrification, cheap alcohol & trying to look pretty in our twilight posting years (c) Big Reg
http://Tupreme.com

in the grand scheme of things.

could you imagine if the roles were reversed and you needed *him* to lean on in a similar or worse situation?

thank jah for the clarity.

Hadn't heard from him since then.

But this morning a mutual friend calls me and asks if I got an email from couch dude? I hadn't - but my friend tells me he got an email and it sounds pretty much like a suicide note.

Dude's homeless again (1 year after inheriting 40k), and talking wild crazy in the email about being depressed- and said the message was sent out on an automated timer.

Good news: About 6 hours later they locate dude because he calls someone.

But I think he's burned every bridge and not sure that in America there's anyone who can help him. He's not a veteran - eh's not on SSI - he's not 65 - so he's really on his own.

Crazy thing is - some of us could end up in that situation relatively quickly.

So the friend who I let stay with me is no longer part of any story.

But my friend who the overdraft fees taken and needed to get a roomate has updates.

1)He had a roommate who beat him up pretty bad the day he was moving out.

No idea why - I suspect the roommate (mid 20's guy) couldn't take living with him and gave notice. (My friend would be the worst possible roommate - home 24 hours a day, eats smelly foods, smokes pot, doesn't clean, house is a mess, bathroom is a mess.)

But the roommate also sounded like a hot head asshole - plus my friend would not have de-escalated anything ever.

Cops called twice (once a few days before move out) and once on the day of move out. My friend has visible busing on chin, cuts on knees (from scuffling/grappling) and a possible cracked rib (X-ray results not back yet.) No one arrested.

Basically friend is depressed and doesn't realize that having roommates is basically his JOB now. Since he's on SSI and is renting a room in the house for greater than 50% of rent he has some duties such a:
Make sure house is semi inviting.
Make sure gross shit is cleaned up.
Try to give the other person privacy when possible.

Also dude has like 10,000 toys/bric-a-brac stren around the house colelcting dust, being worth 0 money, and not doing anyone any good.

I went and helped him move a bunch of DVDs/CDs/Books onto bookshelves and off the ground, then to use the breakfast nook area to store boxes. I want him to put anything he hasn't used in 1 year into a box to minimize clutter.

Also if you never need it again then throw it away or sell it.

So in about 3 hours we made a small dent - but he needs to continue it.

If he loses this place he'll defiantly also lose ALL of his shit anyways.


How can I be a friend with someone like this? Do I disengage?

>So the friend who I let stay with me is no longer part of any
>story.
>
>But my friend who the overdraft fees taken and needed to get a
>roomate has updates.
>
>So the friend who I let stay with me is no longer part of any
>story.
>
>But my friend who the overdraft fees taken and needed to get a
>roomate has updates.

So he got another roommate for 5 months.

Last night at 10pm he calls me - he's cursing out his roommate, out of breath and calling because they are "tussling." (Not sure how physical it got.)

He tells me his roommate is moving out without paying rent and becuase of that he's going to hold all of his shit until dude pays up. He says dude has a BUNCH of pot plants - way more than legal - and he's not paying rent so he's "not taking shit out the house!!!"

I tell him - you're right - dude owes rent - but you should let him take his shit and get out of the house as soon as possible so he doesn't beat you up like the last guy.

His roommate comes out of his room at this point and I hear him saying "Are you done yet?? " Like he's belittling my friend - and my friend is not taking it well.

He's out of control, calling the other dude a bitch and repeating "YOU OWE ME RENT YOU LITTLE BITCH!!!" Like repeating it A LOT.

He won't listen to a word I say. I hang up and start texting him "De-escalate this. Go some place safe."

About an hour later my friend texts me back . He says dude has been a great roommate to that point - by which he means the dude is barely there and they barely interact.

He says "Dude suddenly says 'I'm too loud, keeping him up all night and he doesn't trust me.'"

Now between you and me - my friend is home 24/7, sleeps during daylight hours and has a BIG stereo (my old stereo) and plays video games all night - so he's DEFINTELY keeping his roommate up.

I'm going to tell him he needs to seek the help of a professional - he's on SSI and maybe someone can help him - a social worker or a doctor.

My advice has always been "Get rid of a lot of your shit so the roommate feels they have some ownership of some of the space. Take an hour a day to clean up - because roommates will leave if the house is stinky. And get first + last rent because a lot of roommates will leave without notice - it's just going to be that way."


So my friend is destined to lose that house and all of his shit.

In better news I take him to get his second vaccine shot on Tuesday.

Dudes out of control when things happen - I'm really going to push him to get a social worker to help him.

>

that “friend” has him on the edge

>that “friend” has him on the edge

With the entire story told in reverse like Memento. In the first and second acts the audience wonders why handle keeps caring enough to help these friends as stuff keeps happening and escalating. In the third act, backwards in time, we see that handle did a murder and the friends helped hide the body (from ThaTruth in post 69), then at the end of the movie we flash all the way back to the beginning and see that the friends actually framed handle for the murder, and only hid the body long enough to get away with all the ish from the first two acts. Post credit scene with the police finding the evidence based o a tip from the friends (who are now overseas with new identities based on stealing handle's credit info) and arresting handle.

Two facts are that he is long long time friend and he has some mental problems that aren't caused by moral failings or a character defect but are biologically determined.

*But yeah even with all that he might ALSO just be a loser.*

My other friend (dude who I let stay here for months) certainly turned out to be a loser. He wasn't in the 90's and the 00's. But in the '10s ad '20s he certainly went that route.

Let's hope for their sakes they get "second acts." I can't help with that at all - that's outside of my power.

There's something in me that wants to help them solve their problems - and clearly they aren't willing to have that happen :(

I think what I'm worried about is is that I could turn into a loser too - and a lot could be circumstance.

I mean if I lost my job or I was sued for some reason (car accident???) I could eat through all my savings pretty quickly and there's NOTHING in American to help me. I could be on the streets if things went bad.

In 2007-2008 when I had trouble getting a job my mother helped me through it until I did find a job, but I was also willing/capable to take the help.

And in 1995 when I was in trouble I took a loan of about $800 from a friend that really saved my bacon. (I paid him back a little at a time - but I paid him as soon as I could and kept the line of communication open the entire time.)

From 1988-1995 I was DEFINTELY a loser.

But people have to be willing to take help and even then it's not my responsibility to save them.

Maybe this is some sort of modified "Captain Save a Hoe" scenario??

and fucking over every opportunity to help yourself when given help.

trying and failing is one thing..

but it sounds like dude isn’t even trying to keep a roommate.

and you are picking him up to take him to get his second dose because???? Dude is using you as a crutch.

>Two facts are that he is long long time friend and he has
>some mental problems that aren't caused by moral failings or a
>character defect but are biologically determined.
>
>*But yeah even with all that he might ALSO just be a loser.*
>
>My other friend (dude who I let stay here for months)
>certainly turned out to be a loser. He wasn't in the 90's and
>the 00's. But in the '10s ad '20s he certainly went that
>route.
>
>Let's hope for their sakes they get "second acts." I can't
>help with that at all - that's outside of my power.
>
>There's something in me that wants to help them solve their
>problems - and clearly they aren't willing to have that happen
>:(
>
>I think what I'm worried about is is that I could turn into a
>loser too - and a lot could be circumstance.
>
>I mean if I lost my job or I was sued for some reason (car
>accident???) I could eat through all my savings pretty quickly
>and there's NOTHING in American to help me. I could be on the
>streets if things went bad.
>
>In 2007-2008 when I had trouble getting a job my mother helped
>me through it until I did find a job, but I was also
>willing/capable to take the help.
>
>And in 1995 when I was in trouble I took a loan of about $800
>from a friend that really saved my bacon. (I paid him back a
>little at a time - but I paid him as soon as I could and kept
>the line of communication open the entire time.)
>
>From 1988-1995 I was DEFINTELY a loser.
>
>But people have to be willing to take help and even then it's
>not my responsibility to save them.
>
>Maybe this is some sort of modified "Captain Save a Hoe"
>scenario??

I think for people to sit here and call them losers or what have you is a bit much.

Yes, they're toxic.
Yes, they're clearly causing him some measure of harm.
Yes, they seem like hopeless cases.

We can go on.

IMO he's reached a point where he needs to make a choice, because he's allowing them to bring their toxicity and instability to his doorstep.

There are a million reasons why he's doing that, and it's not a simple thing to cut those ties.

But to just flat out call them losers is doing way too much. This is clearly a sounding board for him to deal with it, and there's practical advise that he probably needs to hear, for his own well being.

But shitting on his people ain't it. There are better ways to describe and discuss their lot in life than wholesale labels like "loser", because that encompasses a lot while minimalizing the serious issues they clearly have.

You, as a mental health professional, should have a bit more compassion here.

a toxic friend is no better or worse than a loser friend. A loser is just a person who chooses not to try and win at life. They threw in the towel and are just waiting on death.

A toxic person spreads their shit around. They infect other people in hopes it will
cure their sickness faster.


given what is being presented it doesn’t leave much room for positive reinforcement. I think both labels are spot on.

I could see if it handles updates were on some “he roams the streets at night and cant find his way home” but most of the updates are things most of us are familiar with and prolly had experience with with friends who weren’t shit aka losers/toxic ass people.

We all have to make choices on how much we are willing to put up with. Handle can handle more of this obviously but we already know how this ends. Either you cut the line and let dude sink or swim or keep paddling for him.

Most people will swim when they realize no one is going to do the paddling for them anymore.

My family is brimming with toxicity, but I view each person through a different lense. We're in the thick of a situation where I feel one person is being viewed far too harshly, even though the actions themselves are pretty fucked up.

I re-read my post in here, and it's a lot of what I've said in her defense. So I'm pretty sure I was just in my personal feelings and projecting.

I still think it matters how we view people in these situations, but I don't even know to what degree, or even if that's valid. Because you're right- the labels toxic and loser are six and a half dozen. 1

I do know that we all have to choose how much we engage with people that bring nothing but detritus to our doorstep, and handle has kind of taken up something of a martyr mantle when he's well past what a lot of us would view as an obvious and charitable cutoff point.

I have family and a few old friends who used to bring that stuff to my doorstep.

Its draining and you have to keep those people at a distance.

I have one cousin who constantly does that shit on FB.

“No one loves me, I just want to go to the store but no one will take me”

@silentintellect

Funny thing is, handle is always yelling ready cut crazy shit off and reduce it for half as much as this so called friend has done but this longstanding bullshit he hangs on to?

he was having a bad day..

it could happen to anyone...

but let someone question Biden’s voting record and its “Ayo bitch!!!.. fuck you, yo momma and yo granny”

Really???My friend how can't keep a roommate and it's stressing me out is akin to making excuses for a MASS SHOOTER.???

FOH.

>but let someone question Biden’s voting record and its
>“Ayo bitch!!!.. fuck you, yo momma and yo granny”

Your past points about Biden were nearly all talking points from the insane right wing or the left wing -- candidates that can win a small congressional race but not carry a state wide race. Ideas that LOST. And most of the time *completely disingenuous.*

And if your granny co-signs those points then fuck her too - but in good health with a roof over her head.


Note: If the friend was losing his roommates because he was a Trump supporter or Q shit or anarchist shit then I wouldn't help or care at much all.

Dude's mentally ill, is not allowed to work, is not capable of working and is POOR as fuck. Money (directed at rent, healthcare, food) would solve these problems - it's not addiction or violence or theft of sloth. (Or being WHITE. Or having a bad day and SHOOTING people.)

And I can't change it.

>Really???My friend how can't keep a roommate and it's
>stressing me out is akin to making excuses for a MASS
>SHOOTER.???
>
>FOH.
>
>>but let someone question Biden’s voting record and its
>>“Ayo bitch!!!.. fuck you, yo momma and yo granny”
>
>Your past points about Biden were nearly all talking points
>from the insane right wing or the left wing -- candidates that
>can win a small congressional race but not carry a state wide
>race. Ideas that LOST. And most of the time *completely
>disingenuous.*
>
>And if your granny co-signs those points then fuck her too -
>but in good health with a roof over her head.
>
>
>Note: If the friend was losing his roommates because he was a
>Trump supporter or Q shit or anarchist shit then I wouldn't
>help or care at much all.
>
>Dude's mentally ill, is not allowed to work, is not capable of
>working and is POOR as fuck. Money (directed at rent,
>healthcare, food) would solve these problems - it's not
>addiction or violence or theft of sloth. (Or being WHITE. Or
>having a bad day and SHOOTING people.)
>
>And I can't change it.
>
>
>

no, it says a lot about you.

I mean, at some point you have to realize you are hanging your friends out to dry on here but then thew in a “but I could be a loser and I WAS a loser”

maybe its just an old ass weed head who like to play video games at night.

or maybe this is some loser porn shit

That's just what it is.

We can be well-meaning, with an honest desire to care for and help the people we love, but when the people we love are toxic, there comes a point where all you're doing is enabling them to wreak havoc on your own life.

And that's where you are with this one.

You can choose to keep them around, trying to help as best you can, but any stress or grief or simple annoyance he brings to your life at this point is on you.

You've been a good friend. You've done more, and put up with more, than most people would, or than is even reasonable to expect.

But you're the one who decides who you allow in your circle, which means you allow whatever baggage they bring into your circle as well.

For some people, that understanding allows them to continue to try their best to help, because they just accept that the stress is part of the deal.

For others, that realization allows them to put their own well-being (resources included) to the forefront, and they either cut bait or taken an extreme arms length stance.

But others? They know, but they can't bring themselves to cut those toxic people off. So they ride out it, stressed, in grief over watching those they care about essentially waste away, while contributing to all of it.

Thing is, there's nothing noble about sticking around at this point.

and screwing the little man to....your boy his own worst enemy.

I was talking to this co-worker and at the beginning of her story I kept being like "damn I feel bad because shit keeps breaking the wrong way for you" but then at some point after so many stories I was like, "damn, maybe you the problem."

Neither POV is right or wrong in my opinion. SOme times it is a little of both.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

but like you said.. the more you hear the more its “hold up, this aint adding up”

so his man didn’t open a new account or pay the fee.. or wake up during business hiurs and do what he said he would do?

well now..