like, w/o the existence of slavery, would it have ever been an issue?

are the origins of “spanking” and “whooping” the same?

are “spanking” and “whooping” the same?

does context matter?

can a reason simultaneously be an excuse, and/or vice-versa?

just wondering-

beating children...
You think it's just natural to beat children?

There's a difference between beating/spanking as discipline vs. as abuse (very subjective tho). It's one thing to give out a few swats on the ass to make sure the 3yo knows not to play with the knobs on the gas stove or stick things in electrical sockets, it's a whole other thing (like abuse) to smack the shit out of your kid because they got on their parents nerves or forgot to clean the mess up in the kitchen.

Personally, I think physical discipline has a place (a very small place, like a slap on the hand, a pinch or swat on the ass). A lot of what happens in reality is straight-up abuse tho. No reason to smack your kid in the face, strike them with a closed fist or not use reason and some other form of discipline in the first place once they are able to understand (4yo?).

I don't think physical discipline is a throwback to slavery, but I think the overuse and abuse of it is.

When you say nature, whatchu mean?

I ask because in my mind, I look for a correlation in the animal kingdom - this is under my umbrella assumption that the only thing separating us from animals is our ability to reason.

I can't envision physical contact as discipline being natural like that.

Lion:
https://youtu.be/88CoZKwCzmU

Gorilla:
https://youtu.be/1c4QcbmuWmc

Elephant:
https://youtu.be/cWvue-1d5Kg

Anybody ever heard any variation of that?
You're aware that the police originated as slave catchers, or at least you should be by now.
Because of how the police treat us, this idea of keeping us from encounters with the police is more prevalent in our communities than any other. Even according to statistics, child abuse is a bigger problem in our community than pretty much any other. It amazes me how many of us like to remove our actions from the context of white supremacist subjugation. It has shaped our entire existence in America. Moreover, for centuries now, racists have ignored white supremacist context when they want to classify Black people as violent, criminal, lazy, etc.

Let’s goto Sudan and ask this. Ethiopia. Nigeria.

Take places where there’s pretty much only black people and no “white police” to account for and let’s see how people answer. Where the police and law enforcement (or lack thereof) look like them. I wonder how they’d answer?

I’m bout to be around a TON of immigrants from all over, I’ll pose this and see the response. I’ll even get their take on how they view this idea of African American and the connection of spanking to slavery.

>Take places where there’s pretty much only black people and
>no “white police” to account for and let’s see how
>people answer. Where the police and law enforcement (or lack
>thereof) look like them. I wonder how they’d answer?


Have fun. I'm not talking about them.

Funny also how you put "white police" in quotations,when that phrase doesn't appear in my reply.

"I hate to do this but it's not as bad as what the white man will do if he catches you."

I think most punishments of kids are intended to keep them from trouble. And corporal punishment isn't unique to black folks.

I know a lot of white, latin and Asian folks who were physically punished by their parents. But I don't know of any of them that got the same rationale for it.

> I think most punishments of kids are intended to keep them
>from trouble. And corporal punishment isn't unique to black
>folks.


I'm not saying corporal punishment is unique to Black folks.


> I know a lot of white, latin and Asian folks who were
>physically punished by their parents.


There are also poor ppl of other races, other races of children in special ed, people of other races who get killed by cops, other races incarcerated... do you see where this is going?


>But I don't know of any
>of them that got the same rationale for it.


Exactly.

Answer: no

So the answer to your question is no

i think it influences the severity and sometimes justifications after the fact but in general...nah

And to a certain extent colonialism.

Apparently there is/was very little tradition centered around corporal punishment among societies that were not enslaved (i.e. hunter-gatherer) or enslaving. (no time to search for more links, but they're out there):

https://news.nd.edu/news/research-shows-child-rearing-practices-of-distant-ancestors-foster-morality-compassion-in-kids/
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/singletons/201010/raising-baby-hunter-gatherer-style

The earliest promotion of corporal punishment appeared in religious texts.

Certain groups embraced that as a mandate and justification.. especially when establishing dominance over other groups, including but not limited to their own children.

"Spare the rod, spoil the child"
"40 lashes"

etc.

^I have yet to hear of any similar proverbs or heuristics originating from indigenous African, American, Australian groups which promote violence as a component of family or labor dynamics.

And this is further supported by studies that continually show corporal punishment has its highest and most cohesive support among Conservative Protestants and fundamentalists, even while general support for corporal punishment among Americans has waned over time:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28202158
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1822698
http://www.apa.org/pi/families/resources/newsletter/2017/04/racial-trauma.aspx


Unfortunately, corporal punishment just seems like one of those things that subordinate groups adopted over time from the groups dominating them across various institutions throughout history: slavery, school systems, etc.