http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/16/politics/al-franken-sexual-harassment/index.html

as far as i can tell he's been a good Senator. isn't that pretty much the consensus?

she looks cute, though. no, i'm not saying that makes it ok, just an observation.

http://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/171116113211-al-franken-leeann-tweeden-2006-exlarge-169.jpg

looks like something from snl...these niggas is retarded.

you could get away with this before but now? not so much

And up until yesterday he was still tied in the polls. Don't underestimate the "Good 'Ol Boy" factor.

He'll have to shut up & take the heat (rightfully so). And I think he'll have to make amends for it with his female constituents

But I don't think he'll have to step down over it.

EDIT - It was before he joined the Senate so it'll be interesting to see if he plays the "I was a part of the wild Hollywood entertainment culture" card.

and there may be a move to expel him on the same grounds that they're talking about expelling Roy Moore if he gets elected (doesn't meet the ethical bar). He might get pushed out, especially if there are any other women that come forward with similar stories.

Franken has been giving them the business since he showed up in DC.

So this is a tough one for me. He's been a great senator, but wrong is wrong and you can't defend this shit

To be clear, I'm not equating the two, but wrong is wrong.

you mean you need to demand he step down or just admit it's wrong?

I'm just pointing out that that is stupid.

I would hope we all agree that was a knucklehead move.

Should we all shake our heads in disgust if we see him in public?
Demand he gets fired/step down?



Seriously don't know what made him think that would be a good idea/take a picture of.

Get em all out. Can't be talking about moral and ethics and debating whether Moore is fit to be seated then let this slide.

260 harrasement settlements (sexual and other types lumped together) over 20 years.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/16/politics/settlements-congress-sexual-harassment/index.html

I'm sure everybody in politics has something on them. Clean house.

I wonder what campaigns for the people who grew up in social media will be like. All types of problematic evidence out there

like, things worse than what's already out there. but yeah, we need to get all this stuff out in the open.

Since 1992

aint nothing else coming out that would shock us

if it means a step toward the end of neoliberalism from the "left"

dem minnesota gov gets to appoint a new senator that will be up for re-election in a 2020 environment that should be favorable to dems.

obviously the healthcare vote is in play. so they will prolly wait until after that.

but his apology wasnt nearly enough. he should announce his intent to step away.

I think he should have to apologize but I'm not sure if he should lose his seat over this. Now as far as the photo if he's actually groping her, yeah he should probably lose his seat. I can't tell if he just put his hands over the inappropriate areas to do the photo of he's actually touching her breasts. If he's actually touching her ya man is outta here.

and he humiliated her

he also shoved his tongue in her mouth during rehearsal

Dems can't be yapping about Moore and then shrugging at their own.

just a flimsy 'i dont remember it that way' on the 1st charge and a 'sorry i was just tryna be funny' on the 2nd charge.

if he didnt actually grope her in the pic then i assume he would have said that.

Where they joke like that at? Not trying to split hairs, just saying I wasn't sure if the picture was a hard foul. The kiss was absolute disrespect and complete disregard. SMH

just motioned like he was.

theres a lot of shaky shit about this story now.

All bad.

They've been all over this Moore thing when anyone with half a brain cell knows this is a problem with men in general.

So called heros and villains alike are equally scummy when it comes to sexual harassment.

Shit at this point I won't be surprised to hear Barack got dirt on him in this regard too.

************************

and unless someone I knew in congress was mad rapey why the hell would I stop speaking on Moore?

If I knew Al tried to kiss an intern I would still talk shit about Moore cause there are levels to this shit.

do terrible things?

The better rule would be just call for the head of men whenever they do terrible things regardless of party?

>They've been all over this Moore thing when anyone with half
>a brain cell knows this is a problem with men in general.
>
>So called heros and villains alike are equally scummy when it
>comes to sexual harassment.
>
>Shit at this point I won't be surprised to hear Barack got
>dirt on him in this regard too.
>
>************************


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

how one of their colleagues cut themselves so badly while shaving

“The first thing I want to do is apologize: to Leeann, to everyone else who was part of that tour, to everyone who has worked for me, to everyone I represent, and to everyone who counts on me to be an ally and supporter and champion of women. There's more I want to say, but the first and most important thing—and if it's the only thing you care to hear, that's fine—is: I'm sorry.

“I respect women. I don't respect men who don't. And the fact that my own actions have given people a good reason to doubt that makes me feel ashamed.

“But I want to say something else, too. Over the last few months, all of us—including and especially men who respect women—have been forced to take a good, hard look at our own actions and think (perhaps, shamefully, for the first time) about how those actions have affected women.

“For instance, that picture. I don't know what was in my head when I took that picture, and it doesn't matter. There's no excuse. I look at it now and I feel disgusted with myself. It isn't funny. It's completely inappropriate. It's obvious how Leeann would feel violated by that picture. And, what's more, I can see how millions of other women would feel violated by it—women who have had similar experiences in their own lives, women who fear having those experiences, women who look up to me, women who have counted on me.

“Coming from the world of comedy, I've told and written a lot of jokes that I once thought were funny but later came to realize were just plain offensive. But the intentions behind my actions aren't the point at all. It's the impact these jokes had on others that matters. And I'm sorry it's taken me so long to come to terms with that.

“While I don't remember the rehearsal for the skit as Leeann does, I understand why we need to listen to and believe women’s experiences.

“I am asking that an ethics investigation be undertaken, and I will gladly cooperate.

“And the truth is, what people think of me in light of this is far less important than what people think of women who continue to come forward to tell their stories. They deserve to be heard, and believed. And they deserve to know that I am their ally and supporter. I have let them down and am committed to making it up to them.”

>“While I don't remember the rehearsal for the skit as Leeann
>does, I understand why we need to listen to and believe
>women’s experiences.

right now
for all the ones we'll never know about

Trump & Republicans have perfected WhatAboutism & Moral Equivalentism to the point where we are arguing it on their behalf.

The goal is not to have perfect politicians. The goal is to not have evil pigs who are unrepentant in their wrongdoing.

They got folks thinking that the pedo rapist is equivalent to the too touchy too feely Joe Biden.

They got us thinking the misogynist rapist pig president is the same of a guy who pulled a dumb thoughtless prank.

Yeah it seems like Bill Clinton is pig rapist and we should have treated him differently at the time but getting into arguments now about him is fucking ridiculous because he doesn't hold office now and isn't running for office now.

Do this thought experiment. What if Republicans start arguing that Democrats have no credibility on civil rights because FDR put the japanese in internment camps. THat's a silly argument right?

I'm not defending Franklin (at least not on the picture). It was stupid. He should be taken to task and he should apologize for it. But if we would throw away all the good work that Franken has done and gift wrap his seat to the republicans based on a stupid picture then yeah the end game is that Republicans will beat us every time because we are playing by two different rule books.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Do we want people that behave that way to be our representatives?

No need to compare and contrast incidents.
If you add any more into the calculus, you are guility of what you seem to be against.

And with only the information that we have, I don't think he needs to give up his job for what he has done.

If there are alot more allegations out there, I might change my mind.



>Do we want people that behave that way to be our
>representatives?
>
>No need to compare and contrast incidents.
>If you add any more into the calculus, you are guility of what
>you seem to be against.
>


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

It was Halloween, dude was dressed like a lady, had a blonde wig, fake tits, beard, the whole nine..

I was faded... jumped off stage into the crowd and seen dude with the wig on out the corner of my eye and grabbed the jammers on some "ha, ha, happy halloween" joke...

but when I squeezed, them joints felt real as hell...then I looked up and my friend had a 0_0 face. Half way thru the song she had taken dudes wig and put it on her head.

whole crowd was like "oooooh shit" she was smacking me and I was apologizing. She was cool, I got on the mic and apologized but man.. that shit was so embarrassing but also hilarious. Glad she was a good sport.

I bet there are all sorts of stories about him out there.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Should he lose his seat? I personally dont think so but i can see the argument for it. And if it happens cool, it will suck cause politically he is great.

But please stop trying to compare this to dating, sleeping with, underage girls. Just please stop. You look and sound stupid.


----------

IG @h_n_z

and let Al slide for grabbin'em by the titties.

he gotta step down.

I said those 2 situations are not the same. Didnt say forget one and not the other.


----------

IG @h_n_z

She explained today that he faked touching her but actually didn't. The joke was in poor taste, he deserves the public shaming but he didn't physically violate her. I don't think it's grounds for stepping down.

down.


Let me understand the logic

Progressive: Trump you are a misogynist pig who should resign.
Trump: What about Al Franken's inappropriate photo?
Progressive: OK, to feel morally pure, Al Franken, progressive warrior, please step down even though it will deliver your seat to Republicans.
Progressives: OK Trump, we got Franken to step down.
Trump: So.


>and let Al slide for grabbin'em by the titties.
>
>he gotta step down.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

weakening your already weak position to prove a point to your bully is pretty fucking stupid

she now says he didnt grope her. just motioned like it. ive seen media folks starting to refer to it as a 'mock grope'.

this is significant imo because supposedly you are going off of 10 years of ingrained memory for your original account...but now changed your tune on one of the most important details in just a few hours. im sure someone will say the mock grope in itself is humiliating/violating enough. but what does it say about her motives if she *intentionally* oversold it?

she also now downplays the skit rehearsal kiss...where it seems like she may have been uncomfortable because she wasnt a performer who is accustomed to rehearsing/acting out kisses.

add to that...she is a frequent sean hannity contributor and roger stone had prior knowledge of her accusation about to drop (publicly stated it the night before).
https://twitter.com/StoneColdTruth/status/931042351459504128

also this dude from infowars:
https://twitter.com/DewsNewz/status/931044326339211264


others around the incident are coming forward and disputing her claim:

https://twitter.com/TheTabbasco/status/931189292810063874
https://twitter.com/TheTabbasco/status/931190006324056064
https://twitter.com/TheTabbasco/status/931197469597220864
https://twitter.com/TheTabbasco/status/931235198989160449

i cant find this other tweet...but it was from someone who allegedly knows the photographer (who said the pic was intentionally staged and they were all in on it).

iono fam. i dont wanna victim shame (im sure someone on here will accuse me of it). but the details around this are 'fluid' (to put it mildly). ima have to reserve judgment til more info comes out.

----------

IG @h_n_z

https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/931578979298967554

this shit might end up backfiring.

That she was in on the joke.


----------

IG @h_n_z

that basically it was a harmless staged joke that they were all in on.

i also saw some military dude say that if they were mid-flight and she was indeed sleeping...they wouldnt have had her geared up like she was (she woulda been dressed more like franken).

people are tryna track down this guy who blogged about the trip and see if he has any details.
https://twitter.com/RedTRaccoon/status/931256432892227585
https://twitter.com/RedTRaccoon/status/931257728068022272
http://andygoestoiraq.blogspot.com/2006/12/what-im-doing-on-my-christmas-vacation.html

im not taking any sides at this point. but i doubt this story is done developing.

I don't fuck with painting this situation in a certain light to benefit an agenda which this has the stench of.


----------

IG @h_n_z

in her statement yesterday...she made it seem like she kept all of this hidden for years from everyone but her husband.

http://www.kabc.com/2017/11/16/leeann-tweeden-on-senator-al-franken/

-------

"I wanted to shout my story to the world with a megaphone to anyone who would listen, but even as angry as I was, I was worried about the potential backlash and damage going public might have on my career as a broadcaster.

But that was then, this is now. I’m no longer afraid."

"I had locked up those memories of helplessness and violation for a long time, but they all came rushing back to me and my hands clinched into fists like it was yesterday."

"Someday, I thought to myself, I would tell my story.

That day is now."

"I want the days of silence to be over forever."

--------

but in the statement that her station made:
https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/931578979298967554

they say "In the 11 years since Al Franken forcibly kissed and groped Leeann Tweeden, she has never kept it secret. She has spoken about it to friends, family and co-workers."

those dont sound like the same story.

>she now says he didnt grope her. just motioned like it. ive
>seen media folks starting to refer to it as a 'mock grope'.
>

where did you see/hear that she actually said this? The only reference I could find was to an MSNBC host making that suggestion:

https://www.mediaite.com/columnists/msnbcs-kasie-hunt-reports-franken-was-not-actually-groping-sleeping-leeann-tweeden/

get a high five for the fucking internet?

can we say after a stretch of just the internet producing absolute shit, its actually providing some come up uppance?


go internet!

or people coming out to dispute the pic.


>get a high five for the fucking internet?
>
>can we say after a stretch of just the internet producing
>absolute shit, its actually providing some come up uppance?
>
>
>go internet!


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

for those who seek it, and also easy to spread lies for those who don't.

but more so on these loser dudes using positions of power to exploit people, its disgusting to treat another human being that way and frankly i find inconcievable that when some of these people are alone with their thoughts at night they are able to fucking sleep

al franken in particular? deets seem sketchy but he handled it well enough i guess but if he did take advantage of her fuck him too

she said they were isolated and all alone and nobody else saw it.

but there are pics of them rehearsing on stage (script in her hand). and people around.

https://twitter.com/bravenak/status/932025263839264768

also looks like there was a lot of gropery on the trip (including by her)
https://twitter.com/ljgiorgis/status/931969293348085760

What’s the end game?

You can’t be on some #metoo and then have Dunham type behavior where you get mad when a Black man DOESNT push up on you...

You can’t be on some “he assaulted me” yet have video of you acting a fool onstage abuse it actually was all jokes and fun and games.

Just feels like we are reaching that 15 minutes of fame with this shit.

New story came out today about him trying to forcibly kiss someone. Now almost every female Dem senator is calling for him to resign.
He says he's making an announcement about his future tomorrow

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/06/al-franken-accusation-sexual-harassment-2006-281049

Morons.

Because Democrats will burn the party to be pure - meanwhile the Republicans are electing people who are doing MUCH worst things.

Let's say ALL of the allegations against Franken are true. (touched some butts, "surprise" kissed some women.)

And that only 1 of the allegations against Trump is True.

(If this were a case where someone was killed I'd say Frnaken might be at voluntary manslaughter - while Trump's a serial killer.)

Where are we at now?

Al Franken resigns and so does Trump?

Al Franken resigns and Moore is elected and Mitch McConell refuses to seat him??

None of that happens.

Franken resigns and Republican women switch to the Democratic party? That will never happen. (A lot of Republican women are anti-choice and that trumps Trump's pussy grabbing or Roy Moore's pederast-in' on the 14 year old fetuses.)

Here's what Democrats will learn: Never admit guilt.

Because *it is* working like gangbusters for Republicans.

And right now, in this very reactionary time, ALL CRIMES are equal and they ALL have the same remedy: immediate professional death.

republicans certainly will ice out people over their "values"

their values are just different.

the republican primary was all about actual republican values winning, and all these republicans holding their noses and supporting people like trump and moore are because their ideas about white people and their brand of christianity, size of government (nonmilitary) and taxes, etc. are more important to them than the other values some espouse.

All these cases should be taken on a case by case basis.

No one should be forced out of a job by mere accusations, democrat or republican.

Some amount of investigation and due diligence should be done in all cases.

Not all the accusations of the same. Dems are being dummies and treating RAPE allegations the same as inappropiate (AND WRONG) jokes.

Some misdeeds should require SINCERE apologies and other misdeeds should require people to go to JAIL. We should use our heads to decide what misdeeds should require what.


John Conyers the DEMOCRAT should step down based on what we know. Al Franken another democrat should not require the same.

We can't be this stupid.







**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

25 women are running for dem senate seats next year.

something like 291 women are running for dem house seats next year (about 4x the number in 2015).

the female candidate advocacy group emilys list had 1000 women contact them about either running or volunteering in 2016. so far this year that number is 20000 and overwhelmingly liberal/dem.

women (even white women) are shifting towards the dem party. the gender gap in 2016 prez election and 2017 va gov election were historical highs.

there is clearly a ton of unprecedented energy among women in favor of the dem party. largely in part because women think the dem party listens to and speaks for them on issues related to sexual misconduct.

and no doubt these voices are being heard loud and clear and putting pressure on dems. why are we not taking *them* into account here?

both parties are practicing some degree of political expedience around this issue. its just that its in 1 partys best interest to empathize/sympathize with women and take decisive action. and its in the other partys best interest to dismiss and marginalize them.

that said, i agree with buddy above that things need to be looked at case by case

which is hard when people (understandably) adopt a policy of always believe the accuser, as well as lumping everyone in the weinstein category. these breitbart types are bound to exploit it.

should step down and Al Franken should not.

People who say they should really aren't thinking through the issues.





>that said, i agree with buddy above that things need to be
>looked at case by case
>
>which is hard when people (understandably) adopt a policy of
>always believe the accuser, as well as lumping everyone in the
>weinstein category. these breitbart types are bound to exploit
>it.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Franken is why Repubs are able to openly flock back to Roy Moore.

Dems are terrified of it because they suck at messaging.

if this was ted cruz instead of al franken, you'd want him to resign too.

but yeah...common sense tells us we should go case by case

but selective morality is funny coming from the bible party

if that doesn't sound hella made up... who knows, but this seems like some bullshit based on the link i just read.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

and the joke was probably mangled slightly by memory.

But comedically, Franken goes for that "ironically-self-aggrandizing" kind of thing all the time. The title of his latest book is "Al Franken: Giant of the Senate"


I've always liked Franken a lot. I listened to his radio show religiously. And I still like him. But this accusation is serious enough that I finally think he has to step down for the good of the party. It would be increasingly hard for the party to claim higher ground on this issue, which we most definitely should do. This is still nothing compared to Roy Moore, or even Bill O'Reilly. But Franken remaining in office would still complicate the case against Moore and Trump.

...or something close, is what he should say at least.

Go out swinging.

If you are going to take the high ground and
self-police, at least go all out on the other side.

if not....WASTE OF TIME!

What he did was not the same as those two, both of which will have jobs, and he wont...because why?

So they can run ads talking about misconduct and pedophilia in good conscience?

Dems falling for that GOP bait and switch.

And then watch them not get back majority anyway....lol.

What a joke.

That his office in Washington. Leave a message telling him if you support him or if you want him to resign.

I did.

and was comms director for former dem rep alan grayson. she wrote her own account and put her name/face on it.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/12/i-believe-frankens-accusers-because-he-groped-me-too/547691/

whether some of the allegations were part of a political hit job, this latest one casts doubt on that narrative and gives a lot more credibility to his accusers in the minds of a lot people (especially women). it now looks even more like a consistent pattern of behavior.

frankens approval rating plummeted in his own state after the 1st round of allegations, with barely 20% of people saying he should stay in office. where do you think they will be now?

there is clearly a double standard between the 2 parties. but thats because the voter bases are different and have different values and motives.

its a gift and a curse...but we aint them.

dems would actually shed support across the board by not asking franken to step down. repubs would actually maintain a lot of support but continue to steadily hemorrhage women voters.

id like to see dems play hardball more. but this right here aint the political hill to die on.

He should go out in style.

Something along the lines of...as men we need to do
better, as men in public office we should definitely
do better and be role models....so as I announce my
résignation, I’d like to ask the same of Donald Trump...etc.

Work Moore and McConnel in too.

F*ck it...go full heel and have some trump victims
on stage.

This isn’t the hill to die on, but make the surrender is
loud and meaningful.

any time any conversation about sexual assault/harassment comes up, trumps name should be shoehorned into it. they should make him the poster boy for privilege and double standard. every victim in america should view him as the public avatar of their violator.

they
>should make him the poster boy for privilege and double
>standard. every victim in america should view him as the
>public avatar of their violator.

"We posed for the shot. He immediately put his hand on my waist, grabbing a handful of flesh. I froze. Then he squeezed. At least twice."

I’d been married for two years at the time; I don’t let my husband touch me like that in public because I believe it diminishes me as a professional woman. Al Franken’s familiarity was inappropriate and unwanted. It was also quick; he knew exactly what he was doing.

It shrunk me. It’s like I was no longer a person, only ornamental. It said, “You don’t matter—and I do.” He wanted to cop a feel and he demonstrated he didn’t need my permission."

Imagine that -- he squeezed her - an act so intimate and SEXUAL that she wouldn't let her husband do it!!!

He reduced her as an ornament for FUCK'S SAKE!!!!!! HE KNE EXACTLY WHAT HE WAS DOING!!

Al Franken can dehumanize someone - with forethought, with just two (at least 2) pinches.

should dems throw them under the bus and ignore their pleas? are their reactions only justified when it lines up parallel to ours?

who gets to set acceptable boundaries for when a woman feels her own body and space have been violated?

i mean...
we have a bunch of men in here giving our perspective on an issue that we have little chance of experiencing personally.

shouldnt there be at least a lil deference shown to the women living this reality out on a day to day basis?

Everyone knows squeezes on the stomach while getting your photo taken in public both dehumanizes the squeezee - it also gives the squeezer an angry boner in all cases. NO EXCEPTIONS.

Now, since Trump and Moore have no admitted to anything - and in fact are calling the accusers criminals ... I guess we should all vote Republican?

#ImNotSugegstingItsNotaRealProblemThatNeedsToBeAddressed
#IJustThinkItsturnedIntoARectionaryMovementThatIsBeingUsedToActuallyHarmPeopleMoreThanHelpThemInSomeCases


>who gets to set acceptable boundaries for when a woman feels her own body and space have been violated?

Clearly each women will individually determine that - but it's become a very reactionary movement with only one possible outcome no matter what occurred: for the person to be fired immediately no matter what.

#MeToo is being hijacked in some cases - and at the end of this wave I sincerely doubt the folks who used it as a cudgel are going to actually enact policies - or at least start real conversations - they'll just deny any and all accusations and K.I.M.

And yes, I believe that women are harassed, abused, and made to feel shame AND to blame themselves by patriarchy - there's no question of that. The question is how do we have a real conversation about it and make change actually happen.

sounds a bit reachy even when i'm erring on the side of caution

https://twitter.com/tomarnold/status/938621561971523588

Shit's annoying.

It gives them to the moral high ground while the republicans go all in with Roy Moore. I feel like the republicans aren’t even pretending to do the right thing anymore, it’s wild.

dems can grill them on Roy Moore and they will have no "what about" retort. The two situations aren't even close to the same, but this gives the republicans no excuses. It's good to have your side be totally clean before you go attacking the other side for their morals. it will hurt them in the short term but it will help in the long term, I think Franken knows this and that's why he's okay with stepping down. also, it's just the right thing to do. I have a feeling this is a political hit job on Franken but I still believe the women, so he's gotta go.

No one gives a shit about stuff like this once they get in the booth except for Dems who are already voting straight ticket.

who KNOW he a pedo.
Trump brags about being a sexual predator, and won the white vote overwhelmingly, and is supported like crazy by his party, even as most of them think he's a fuckin' idiot.

Man, NO.

which is the funny part that dems don't see.

it was never about anything other than the GOP agenda.

They want nothing but to completely erase Obama and to get as many right leaning SCOTUS seats as they can get.

THATS IT!

Everything else don't matter...whatever it is...don't matter.

I could see if this was a Dem primary but it’s the GOP. They don’t give a fuck, especially the women.

Just leave, dude.

He disagrees with this as an outcome. So let him talk his shit.

He's a sleaze and letting him drone on about how lucky he is without copping to anything makes it seem like he's been wronged in some way. And since he hasn't been, he should just pack up his shit and go.

it's incidentally convenient that his show's on a seasonal break right now.

we dont seem to understand what is at stake.

i really do think we should have let the senate ethics committee make the final decision on this
and i would've been completely okay with it if they had concluded that Franken must resign (through that process)

but the message we are sending is that we are willing to cannibalize ourselves in order to gain a higher moral ground
knowing full well this does not matter to *insert the % of the AL that votes for moore* of the country
the message we should be sending is that yes, we do take sexual assault seriously, and will fully do an ethics review to make a determination on what happens ...
and i am certain we can do this without seeming to defend him or to discredit the women who accused him.


if i were bannon and the GOP right now i would be very quickly lining up women to make accusations
*and yes, i am cynical enough to believe they will do this moving forward*
im old enough to remember white folk vandalizing their own property *just* to accuse BLM.

im also aware this is not a popular opinion among liberal circles, but *shrug*

"if i were bannon and the GOP right now i would be very quickly lining up women to make accusations"

YUP.
And they are nowhere near above that shit, at all.
White liberalism and its incessant virtue signaling will inevitably put itself in a fucking corner

and i also feel like the right has no scruples taking what is a pretty important movement and utilizing it to justify the ends.

anyway. at this point this doesn't even matter.
im just going to wait and see who's next. apparently nyt is working on a list of 40-50 congress folk

#metoo is good because it's bringing stuff to the light. That's always good.

The problem is thinking that this was only supposed to apply to certain people and no one else. That's not how this kind of thing works. It's unwieldy by its nature and yields unexpected and unforeseen results.

Once you start compromising your values & beliefs, it gets easier to do whenever a crisis pops up. And at some point, those values won't mean anything anymore. An idealistic view thinks that holding on to our morals will pay off in the long run.

On the flip, those GOP SOBs are playing real filthy right now. Although this isn't what I had in mind (sexual misconduct), I've been saying that I want to see the Democrats grab their nuts & get some backbone. I almost think that Franken should stick around until one of their harassers steps down.

is painful. That goes for every human being.

And alot on the Left were under some sort of delusion that only Republicans and rightwingers were guilty of this sexual malfeasance, and that it was only the Donald Trumps and Roy Moore's of the political world who would be called out. It was a sort of mass group-self-flattery that this was only going to bring down Trump. No, this kind of stuff has no political party.

I'm saying make sure you are going through a process that actualy *does* validate these values
and to me this is not what happened
we could've even expedited the ethics committee investigation if need be
but i would have highly preferred this decision to have come from there
including a reaffirmation of guidelines on where we stand on the issue

we've just instituted a zero tolerance policy with no limits/restrictions/guidelines etc on an issue that i'm pretty sure the other side is now waiting to exploit.
i mean.. MCCONNELL was calling on Franken to resign AFTER they started funding moore's campaign again.

amazing.

That's a sentiment that has been growing louder and louder at least since the UVA Rolling Stone thing, if not earlier. That aspect of this probably would have played out a little differently 10 or 15 years ago, but people have been primed to think that accusations of sexual misconduct should be believed on their face.

It makes sense that Franken and Conyers have gone down, but not Trump, because it's Democratic and left-leaning types who ride for that idea the most. Trump's voters don't really buy into #alwaysbelievetehvictim, so he's "safe".

>it's Democratic and left-leaning types who
>ride for that idea the most. Trump's voters don't really buy
>into #alwaysbelievetehvictim, so he's "safe".

Which is the reason why this attempt at taking the moral high ground is pointless and it's going to come back to bite them square in the ass, caving like this.

All you have to have is an accusation and..."well...gotta go..."

you think GOP ain't gonna pounce on them noodle spine Dems? LOL!

Give someone a couple hundred k's and they make up some BS, get paid and then go away with ZERO repercussion.

easy money.

it's about the justice system and investigation process being flawed in a way that harms victims. that's a real, concrete issue that plays out in abuse and harassment cases all the time, including all the times its come up before in the senate.

it's not surprising that people like bannon can exploit it, that's what systemic racism and sexism do....

it just means we have to try harder.

i don't see anything good that would have come with franken waiting for the process to play out.

and I agree with you for the most part that Bannon and Co will for sure exploit this zero tolerance policy to their advantage.

I just wonder if there wasn't a dem governor to choose Franken's replacement how differently this would have played out.

I also don't know enough about that state to know the chances of that seat going red in the next election

There were no morals involved here. It was a cold and calculated political move.

If there was a republican governor in MN, they would be fighting for Franken to stay in his seat.

For sexual harassment.

but you can’t grope, harass, assault, etc.

Call in the clean up man https://media.giphy.com/media/4w6t9QGI1uQ0g/giphy.gif

He's still getting a pass. SMH.