How every rapey post turns into a string of jokes. I'm more than sure I've had a part in that
But that's what rape culture is.
A bunch of niggas and white boys treating every questionable situation as a chance to crack a bad joke or feign ignorance
I guess we can't dance no more
I guess we can't street holla no more
I guess we can't tell women to smile no more
What is consent
And it's the same ones post after post acting like they don't get it or just not getting it.

On a human level, I *lack high degrees of empathy and sympathy. But even EYE get what rape culture is. A lot of yall just playing for poast.

Yall can have that shit.
And the shit that piss me off the most the most is how many questionable ass posts there are. There's a world of rapidly changing technology, a destructive government, advances in modern medicine
and yall come in here day after day wondering why the mentality you had when you were 17 doesn't work 20-30 years later.
My dudes

It's crazy how many dudes just don't *get* it. Some of the shit that comes out of my friends' mouths leave me wondering how we're even friends. I've always thought the phrase "rape culture" was a bit strong, but yeah. It's the little things that add up.

they act like it's so hard to not be rapey or rapist or rape-adjacent.

but it's just not.

the problem as i see it is as a general matter we just don't give much of a damn about women. as ppl. as whole ppl w/the same feelings and concerns and motivations that we have. we think of them as some other thing. and there's all of this resentment we have about their sexuality. but ultimately it's lack of care. ambivalence. which is worse than hate. we don't care.

to me that's a key to fixing the problems men have that results in bad behavior toward women. we have to actually give a shit about them and what they experience. what they feel.

I've never been the streetholla, "Grab 'em at the club" type. But I do realize how it can be seen as enabling by not saying anything when it happens.

It's a difficult thing to call another dude out ( especially if you don't know him), but yeah. That's how we got here.

when it's not happening. like we are now.

and i think it's important that we listen to women when they tell us why those street hollas are such a problem for them. we should just hear what they're saying. and not get all defensive about the shit. and not take it personally. just listen. if we have empathy then i think that would guide our behavior after we've heard their stories. the answer should be pretty obvious - if we have empathy for women. if we care about what they feel.

all of this is behavior we can curb. we don't have to choose to be awful to women. none of it is a necessary part of the human condition. we don't have to do these things. we choose to do them. we can make other choices in consideration of our concern for women's feelings. if we want to.

Like I agree with everything you said.

But I know I don't care about other people like that. I don't really humanize others, I don't put myself into their shoes, and while I listen ... I honestly don't have that emotional maturity to really CARE much.

And with all that against me. I can still just not be a dirt bag.

I don't have to dip into I have a mother/sister/gf/wife/women friend well to recognize how fucked up men can be. And so I know if I can do that, with all that I lack, these people just don't care to do/be better.

>they act like it's so hard to not be rapey or rapist or
>rape-adjacent.
>
>but it's just not.
^^ basically. I mean in my case..BEING MARRIED AND ALL I don't have any business saying SHIT to anybody who ain't my wife.

How hard is that? to just sit my ass down at my desk, and do what I get paid to do. Maybe reciprocate a 'good morning' or engage in water cooler banter...but it really is easy.

If you can't tell when a woman wants to engage any further than that, maybe you should just stay in the house and jack off..I don't know. LOL

>
>the problem as i see it is as a general matter we just don't
>give much of a damn about women. as ppl. as whole ppl w/the
>same feelings and concerns and motivations that we have. we
>think of them as some other thing. and there's all of this
>resentment we have about their sexuality. but ultimately it's
>lack of care. ambivalence. which is worse than hate. we
>don't care.
>
>to me that's a key to fixing the problems men have that
>results in bad behavior toward women. we have to actually
>give a shit about them and what they experience. what they
>feel.

^^ so true.
>
>
>

>^^ basically. I mean in my case..BEING MARRIED AND ALL I don't
>have any business saying SHIT to anybody who ain't my wife.
>
>How hard is that? to just sit my ass down at my desk, and do
>what I get paid to do. Maybe reciprocate a 'good morning' or
>engage in water cooler banter...but it really is easy.

I hate the fact that assholes have made it so dangerous (forgive me if that's the wrong word) to have a conversation. I've heard too many horror stories about a regular exchange or a gesture being misconstrued and turned into something it isn't.

I can't speak for anybody else, but in the back of my mind, I'm ALWAYS thinking of the worst case scenario. I rarely speak to women I don't know anymore, and I realize that that's taking away some of my humanity as a person, but I always wonder what happens if a simple "good morning" goes sideways.


I can't call it.

You speak to someone that doesn't want to speak to you, you take the social cues and stop speaking.

I speak to anyone around me usually, not fully conversation, just small talk. It's in part a defense mechanism and a product of growing up in Texas. Sometimes white men speak, sometimes they don't. I don't press folks that don't speak. I register that as a sign that they don't wanna talk to me, and I move the hell on in life.

>You speak to someone that doesn't want to speak to you, you
>take the social cues and stop speaking.

I'm not talking about trying to spark a convo, though. Here's an example. I'm a generally a friendly guy; the guy who holds the elevator, and says "good morning". Now you can't really do that without a fear that somebody will take offense to your actions. I think there was a 'stop holding the door open for women' convo (or something to that effect) a while back I've had friends get their heads bitten off for trying to tell somebody that they dropped something. It sucks that this is the world we live in now.

>
>I speak to anyone around me usually, not fully conversation,
>just small talk. It's in part a defense mechanism and a
>product of growing up in Texas. Sometimes white men speak,
>sometimes they don't. I don't press folks that don't speak. I
>register that as a sign that they don't wanna talk to me, and
>I move the hell on in life.

Fair enough. But keeping one's head down and not interacting with people can kinda drag you down after a while.

>I'm not talking about trying to spark a convo, though. Here's
>an example. I'm a generally a friendly guy; the guy who holds
>the elevator, and says "good morning". Now you can't really do
>that without a fear that somebody will take offense to your
>actions.


You really can. About a year or two ago I held the door open for a coworker. Not because she was a woman, but because I was ahead of her and that's what you do when you're the first person to the door. She went behind me and held the door, and we moved on in life. She didn't want the door held open for her, for her reasons, and I didn't care enough to find out what they were.

>I think there was a 'stop holding the door open for
>women' convo (or something to that effect) a while back I've
>had friends get their heads bitten off for trying to tell
>somebody that they dropped something. It sucks that this is
>the world we live in now.


People bite people's heads off for numerous reasons. I snapped on someone the other day for something that was going on in my day. They shouldn't extrapolate all of the ills of black men to that one interaction. You just never know what's going in someone's head.

>You really can. About a year or two ago I held the door open
>for a coworker. Not because she was a woman, but because I was
>ahead of her and that's what you do when you're the first
>person to the door. She went behind me and held the door, and
>we moved on in life. She didn't want the door held open for
>her, for her reasons, and I didn't care enough to find out
>what they were.

I get it, but I just don't like people who can't appreciate the effort another person has made to be courteous. I worked with a lady (gender is unimportant here. She was a jackass who happened to be a woman) who NEVER said thanks if you held the elevator or opened the door if she had shit in her hands. Rude as fuck. I got tired of trying to pick it apart, and as a result, I'd intentionally let the door close on her. THAT'S wrong on MY part. See what I'm sayin'? Her bullshit made me into a lousy person.

>
>>I think there was a 'stop holding the door open for
>>women' convo (or something to that effect) a while back
>I've
>>had friends get their heads bitten off for trying to tell
>>somebody that they dropped something. It sucks that this is
>>the world we live in now.
>
>
>People bite people's heads off for numerous reasons. I
>snapped on someone the other day for something that was going
>on in my day. They shouldn't extrapolate all of the ills of
>black men to that one interaction. You just never know what's
>going in someone's head.


That would bother me. If I'm being kind, and you go out of your way to be a shit head, that would piss me off. I'm not going to just brush it off.

There's a lot to unpack here, but I'm glad we're having this conversation.

What are the real consequences for social faux-pas?
Temporary embarrassment? Someone getting in a slight tizzy?
Doesn't seem worth the mental energy or even effective use of that energy.

I don't think about it. Like this morning I was trying to get into Dunkin b4 a woman bc I was in a hurry so I went in first and just made sure I didn't let the door slam in her face behind me. Lol. But then later I let some women get on an elevator b4 me.

But I generally don't think much about holding doors for women - I just do it unless I don't.

there HAVE been times when I played dumb and 'accidentally' let the elevator close if I'm running late.

*pretending to press button*

if i'm late or som'n i don't make an effort to hold elevators for anyone.

what are these situations that go sideways?

a lady I know said that to me yesterday. I had a rather large box on a dolly.

and it was a big package.

and I knew what she meant.

and I didn't indulge the nasty ass nxgga inside of me and 1) make HER uncomfortable 2) risk my job. 3) risk my marriage.




it really wasn't that hard to say 'shole is...' and go'on bout my business.

Do you sit down at your desk and not say shit to anyone, men or women? Or is there something in particular about women that makes them off limits to interact with?


If you keep to yourself at all times, then that's cool I guess. But it is really problematic if you behave a certain way with the men at the office and then turn ice cold with the women.

What you described seems like going full circle across what you are trying to avoid. Like, your position is that all women should not be treated as sex objects or potential relationships. Therefore you keep your convo to a minimum (lest you appear to be hollering).

But that kind of implies that the only reason you would be talking to a woman is for sex/relationship reasons (i.e. your statement " I mean in my case..BEING MARRIED AND ALL I don't have any business saying SHIT to anybody who ain't my wife").

So are women just sex/relationship objects or not? Why can't you talk to them like regular people?

I had to lay off summa the homies cause you just get caught up in they shit.

- they got problematic thoughts

- they might say some offensive shxt and you get lumped up in it and gotta go tgo HR.

- unnecessarily

>they act like it's so hard to not be rapey or rapist or
>rape-adjacent.
>
>but it's just not.
>
>the problem as i see it is as a general matter we just don't
>give much of a damn about women. as ppl. as whole ppl w/the
>same feelings and concerns and motivations that we have. we
>think of them as some other thing. and there's all of this
>resentment we have about their sexuality. but ultimately it's
>lack of care. ambivalence. which is worse than hate. we
>don't care.
>
>to me that's a key to fixing the problems men have that
>results in bad behavior toward women. we have to actually
>give a shit about them and what they experience. what they
>feel.
>
>
>

im beginning to feel this way more and more. we do not see women as human beings.

its really not that hard to understand. people who do mental gymnastics trying to understand rape/sexual assault/harassment make me feel like they grappling with coming to terms with their own (past) behavior and/or current view of women. just my personal opinion.

ijs

in any of these discussions.

if you motherfuckers didn't figure out that women are ppl until you have a goddamned daughter you're a piece of shit and you should keep that info to yourself. you don't get a prize b/c you suddenly started caring about women or suddenly decided not to be such an asshole b/c some woman gave birth to a girl and says you're the father.

and now i'm just riffing b/c i don't give a damn but i dunno whose joke it is about a father's main job being to keep his daughter 'off the pole' but i swear some of you assholes actually took that as life advice. or you think that joke is cute to tell in mixed company. it's not. it's disgusting. keep that to yourself too.

*smh*

this is a serious post

nothing is serious.

nothing is worth caring about and ppl who care about things are to be made fun of for displaying their care about anything.

unless they care about something that uniquely benefits heterosexual black men. then it's serious and if there's any laughter or lack of seriousness the person responsible for expressing that viewpoint is a race traitor.

otherwise, it's nothing but jokes in the clown car. everything is funny at everyone else's expense.

humanity of anyone who isn't oneself, when used in the context of expressing a concern for something being done to someone else?

except RIP posts and that's bc the mods shut it down.

Donald Trump posts don't.
Hillary Clinton posts don't.
Bernie Sanders posts don't.
Tragedy posts don't.
Natural disaster posts don't.
Hell sports posts barely turn into jokes.

People display a range of valid emotions here from anger, to shock, to fear.

But people CONSISTENTLY joke about the fears and agency of women.

Like this message board keeps looking more and more like a reddit forum each day.

thing w/the clowns on defense for Team Men/NO MAAM when the shit is not called for.

Like if you're TEAM TESTOSTERONE, then own that shit. But don't make it out like that you don't get why someone wouldn't want their ass grabbed by a stranger. Like the two can co-exist. But they take every opportunity to pretend that women just don't get how they "should" be.

for men's bad behavior.

'are the women who keep silent enablers?'

'what about the women who played the game to get ahead - should they be outed?'

it's like asking if women who get raped were wearing the wrong thing or were in the wrong place or had otherwise acted suggestively, et al.

if these questions are posed and then there's an immediate takedown of the sentiment behind the question by the person who posed it then that's different. but instead they're just put out there rhetorically. then when someone else does the takedown there's backpedaling.

ask sowhat.

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=18&topic_id=200144&mesg_id=200144&listing_type=search

Find the level of jokes in here that are in the rape/rapey/consent posts

I'll wait

The only difference I see is that post mostly stayed on topic, whereas other posts go off topic.

But to act like niggas don't be cracking jokes in posts of all topics is false (except RIP) ones

w/stories about sexual harassment and sexual assault/battery in so many different contexts. i didn't expect it in response to that New Yorker/Harvey Weinstein story but that seems to have spurred all of this discussion. i wonder what's gonna happen next.

obviously won't be fast enough but it will

> i wonder what's gonna
>happen next.


I've seen plenty of dumbfuck ass "me-too"'ing. An unpleasant exchange isn't always harassment*, and people are trying to include themselves in shit that is a serious problem. Which in turn devalues the experiences of actual victims.


*- and it's even worse when dudes are trying to out-victim people who have had real shit happen to them.

i think we should just listen to those who come forward and then decide whether we want to change our behavior based on what they're saying.

i say that as someone who has no connection to and no responsibility to act on anything i'm hearing in these stories.

Man, this language is heavy, ain't it?

And a push for more defamation laws. I think the more people that come out, the less credible people are going to start taking it ironically.

That's the cynic in me though.

Everyone deserves to air their shit out and people shouldn't be able to hide their terrible shit, because they've taken away agency from someone else.

if there was doubt that there was a culture, just look at ALL of the allegations hitting each minute, and the reactions to them

who alluded to sexually assaulting someone and posters reaction to it
seemed like the majority were doing what is listed in your initial post
he dropped a bomb and only a select number of posters cared enough to address it

And people are still replying to him.

at this point im hoping hes a troll
im disturbed but not surprised that the majority of posters are going along and acting like nothing happened
its gaslighting af
art imitating life, i say

I'm not trying to see "that's my shit" next to the lyrics to a song about underaged girls. I'd totally judge the respondees from that moment on.

In his "apology" post. That's what time it is.
That he NEVER followed up on that.

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13204322&mesg_id=13204322&page=5#13204339

his lack of self awareness is troubling to say the least
then to keep making posts and never responding
comes across like he's almost flaunting it, imo

and the back and forth shitstorm in the post, smh
like i said above. acting like a decent human being who doesnt assault or harass others is not that hard.

people who do mental gymnastics trying to understand sexual assault/harassment
make me feel like they are grappling with coming to terms with their own (past) behavior and/or current view of women.
it must feel uncomfortable to have to look yourself in the mirror.

Being a that siter has turned into being a redditor
There's a monthly where's the women post, like they demand proxy to women's thoughts without actually knowing women.

>Being a that siter has turned into being a redditor
>There's a monthly where's the women post, like they demand
>proxy to women's thoughts without actually knowing women.

ahh, yes the "where's the women post" where a few women respond with reasons why they leave, but their answers get shut down and the male posters mansplain how they are wrong. fun times

In general, I don't remember anyone on this site except for the few regulars......
And I usually forget about the shitty things/ideas/opinions they might have in a short period of time.....
I don't think it's fair to hold it against folks that might be replying to a poster that they simply don't know has shitty ideas/history/stances/opinions etc...

If it's in the same post..yeah...I can see THAT being an issue...but outside of that?

Particularly when they don't go away after posting

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13204322&mesg_id=13204322&page=5#13204339

Like he just kept posting like he never typed that. Then showed up a week later in a rapey lyrics post.

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13208371&mesg_id=13208371&page=#13208432

Even the guy that threw a brick disappeared for a year before posting again. The sheer audacity of that whole thing. The fucking gall.

but I can't front like I won't forget about it after a few weeks.


>Particularly when they don't go away after posting
>
>http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13204322&mesg_id=13204322&page=5#13204339
>
>Like he just kept posting like he never typed that. Then
>showed up a week later in a rapey lyrics post.
>
>http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13208371&mesg_id=13208371&page=#13208432
>
>Even the guy that threw a brick disappeared for a year before
>posting again. The sheer audacity of that whole thing. The
>fucking gall.
Wait, the dude that got the still ambiguous "hammer"?

"Get ready....for your blessing....."

There'a dude that fucked his cousin and licked spit off the ground
N* was responsible for NERL
J* is known for meltdowns.
Max loves him some R Kelly and calling people turkey.

Not asking you to remember every detail of every poster, but when one dude casually mentions he raped someone, maybe that should be an alarm.

Maybe that's the part of rape culture that I'm pointing out in this very post. Because there's not a chance that any woman poster that read that will ever want to be around that guy, while a dude will gloss over that an invite him to the RE.

THAT's RAPE CULTURE. It doesn't effect us per se, so we just let the shit slide.

Unless you linked it. So I could have easily just been shooting the shit with the guy in a post obliviously (sp).
But Bartek was wild in like 98.97% of every post he participated in...being shitty 99% of the time is basically what he was known for.

>There'a dude that fucked his cousin and licked spit off the
>ground
>N* was responsible for NERL
>J* is known for meltdowns.
>Max loves him some R Kelly and calling people turkey.
>
>Not asking you to remember every detail of every poster, but
>when one dude casually mentions he raped someone, maybe that
>should be an alarm.
>
>Maybe that's the part of rape culture that I'm pointing out in
>this very post. Because there's not a chance that any woman
>poster that read that will ever want to be around that guy,
>while a dude will gloss over that an invite him to the RE.

But that's the key though, I guess SoWhat needs to finally issue that "List" he's been compiling for years...because some folks only know what they witnessed or are made privy to. I mean, yeah, now that we've had this back & forth i'll likely register the posters name in my memory bank.

>THAT's RAPE CULTURE. It doesn't effect us per se, so we just
>let the shit slide.

"Get ready....for your blessing....."

and to drop that and not follow up w/details is odd as hell. and it makes me wonder what he's on.

weird shit.

but ppl like to play around too so i dunno what the deal is w/that.

Like I said in the grind post
I took plenty of L's in the club
not ONCE did I insist, beg, "come on", "fuck you then" etc
if she wasn't with it I was OUT
got clowned by the homies and KIM
but that's rape culture now

I don't street holler or grab em by the wrist "yo ma c'mere" none of that

I've also had the same exact experience charlamagne described
getting hot n heavy, butt ass naked, about to get it in, damm near centimeters away
I heard "NO"
I IMMEDIATELY froze
asked "what's wrong?"
"I don't want to"
me: "OK" got up, put my boxers and pants on, and sat by the bed while she got dressed
No "come on, why you gotta be like that?" "you sure?" "let's just kiss" etc
NOTHING
made sure she was ok, walked her back to her room (this was college)
and KIM
I saw what happened to Tupac and Mike Tyson (c) and said "never me"
I don't want no allegation, no he say-she say, no ambiguity, no next day regret, none of that shit

Your sources are dumb and wrong. And they say purposefully dumb and wrong things.

In a fucking meeting with their secretary, lol.

I was out in the club this monday where the median age was 23 all with all those halloween withoutfits and hornied up packs of dudes they managed to be respectful and get their grind on. All these hypotheticals seem like armchair quarterback questions and not dealing with how most of these situations are black and white.

People take stuff to extremes. It was like don't say hello to anybody you don't know. Don't try to talk to anyone at the bus stop.

Blowing right past rape culture to straight asocial behavior.

Normal people still go out and meet strangers. Talk to them. Interact.
They also know social cues and boundaries.

Folks get into their camps on the issues and take extreme/red line positions that are completely absurd

which leads to “don’t do XYZ cause this could happen to you”

Crime is down from the 80’s and 90’s but fear is up like a muhhhfukka.

I’m not going to stop being friendly cause someone in Harlem was assaulted after a street holla.

If that makes me wrong that fuck it. I’ve never been accused of any wrong doing cause I’m not a skeevy dude. Hell, half the time women speak to me first cause I live down south and people speak to each other.

I found the post. Crazy how I use the exact same language lol

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=18&topic_id=195253&mesg_id=195253&listing_type=search#195695

why the pushback?

why can't we just leave women alone when they're on the street?

when i put myself in their shoes for a minute i can understand why so many women would prefer not to deal w/strange men communicating w/them out of nowhere. and i can't put myself in women's shoes b/c i'm not a woman so i'm imagining only a piece of what they're dealing with. but the stakes are incredibly high for them in ways they just aren't for us men. not just b/c seemingly nice guys can flip on them w/o warning and when that flip happens a perfectly peaceful encounter can become violent but also b/c if that violence comes there's a good chance the woman won't get much help. not just from ppl nearby if there are any ppl nearby but even from the police and from court if it comes to that. if they're at work and the situation flips on them they don't get much if any help from HR. if they tell family or friends they don't get much if any help either necessarily b/c somebody close to them is bound to try and blame them for whatever happened. or to minimize what they felt. or even if it doesn't get this deep they might lose precious minutes they couldn't afford to lose b/c they had to deal w/some nice guy who just wanted to say 'hi' or to tell them to 'smile' and wouldn't just leave them alone even for those few seconds.

i also think we as men can force ourselves on women w/o knowing we're doing it. no not on some rape shit but on some 'you must make time for me NOW' shit. a subtle grab or touch or blocking their way. and women have been socialized to respect/obey us i think in ways we don't appreciate. so maybe they'll give in to these few seconds of interruption. they might give in b/c they want to de-escalate b/c they're uncomfortable. but really they'd rather have just not been bothered.

i'm not sure all of us who aren't skeevy and who are nice and who have never had a problem when we approach women can say that w/total confidence b/c we don't know how many women just gave in when we bothered them. they're socialized to be polite and not make a scene. we don't know how many if any women have done that w/us.

...i haven't hit on everything that's implicated here. but still...it makes me think maybe we should listen when women say they don't want to have us talk to them the way we do right now. i feel like we should stop minimizing what they're saying and stop being defensive and just listen. really listen.

Because it's absurd.

i think it's reasonable and i don't think we need to be defensive about it. b/c no one is accusing us personally of having acted badly.

but considering how high the stakes are for women i think i can understand why so many say they'd appreciate it if we stopped talking at them the way we do when we're out and about.

i expounded on why above.

asking y'all what is so hard to understand.

literally the same dudes in there thats in J.'s post asking well what about this? why can't I do that? if you think of it

just no. shut up and listen to women for 1 damn minute

women you see on the street, right?

you're not a skeevy dude, i'm sure. but even still that doesn't mean you are entitled to speak to women just b/c you're not skeevy.

i think that's one of the problems w/the street holla thing. some women were saying they'd rather not be bothered - even by dudes who aren't skeevy. for whatever reasons they don't want it. but there was this pushback as though women don't have the right to be left the hell alone when they're in public. like they just have to put up w/being approached or being talked to at all - especially by 'nice' guys or 'polite' guys.

yeah down south 'everybody' speaks. but not everybody. and what about the ppl (women, even) who just want to be left alone? why should they deal w/'nice', 'polite', 'non-skeevy' guys when they don't want to?

there's no right to privacy in public.

You might get spoken to.

And that isn't entitlement.

Entitlement would be expecting to be answered or cheerfully responded to.

I understand that there are men that will respond negatively and even violently if the above doesn't happen but THOSE are the entitled ones, not the guys that may speak (within acceptable context) but will happily keep it moving if she doesn't respond or if she says "fuck off!".

lol

no right to privacy in public. so that means you feel entitled to speak to women in public.

you think there's no right to a response.

we've heard from women who've said they'd prefer if we didn't speak to them in public at least not in the way we do now.

why do we dismiss that? why do we minimize it? ridicule it? ignore it?

I don't see it as a special entitlement over women though. It's an entitlement that everyone has and that we moderate by not going out in public.

The irony is I'm generally a more introverted person so I'm more than happy to not talk to anyone, even when I'm out in public. But, I know that the only way to prevent it is by being by myself. Wishing everyone else would just shut up is not something I believe I can generate impose on others. We're all entitled to speak.

>I don't see it as a special entitlement over women though.
>It's an entitlement that everyone has and that we moderate by
>not going out in public.

and how awful is that?

to avoid this thing that we could change women have to not go out in public.

>The irony is I'm generally a more introverted person so I'm
>more than happy to not talk to anyone, even when I'm out in
>public. But, I know that the only way to prevent it is by
>being by myself. Wishing everyone else would just shut up is
>not something I believe I can generate impose on others. We're
>all entitled to speak.

okay. we're entitled to speak. (note: having a right to do something doesn't always make it the right thing to do. w/great power comes great responsibility. so if we have the right to speak to women that doesn't necessarily mean we should do it and it doesn't necessarily mean we should do it the way we do it.)

you know what? just listen to women who've explained why they don't want us to treat them the way we do in public. and then think about it.

i used to think differently about this but then i heard from enough women and i changed my mind. i dunno what to tell you.

I think we agree on the excessive and disrespectful stuff. The disagreement is on the innocuous "hello!"

I'm sure there are women that dislike any attention in public but I'd consider them more on the anti-social side and an extreme perspective on this issue.

I made very specific statements to start this post. Folks bringing up degree to distract from that. If you can't understand nuance you're a dumb person.

My time

I have heard from perfectly healthy women who convinced me that the hello good morning smile beautiful hey there is a bit much. I'm a charming pretty desirable motherfucker with a law degree a big dick and my own place and i don't need to add my hello to all that they carry so I tend to keep it unless I have reason to believe a woman welcomes hearing from me for some reason other than bc I feel like it.

>I have heard from perfectly healthy women who convinced me
>that the hello good morning smile beautiful hey there is a bit
>much. I'm a charming pretty desirable motherfucker with a law
>degree a big dick and my own place and i don't need to add my
>hello to all that they carry so I tend to keep it unless I
>have reason to believe a woman welcomes hearing from me for
>some reason other than bc I feel like it.


Different things but ok

I'm talking about all of that stuff. The impulse is the same - the words don't matter. I've heard women say the words don't matter also.

Of course I know some women have no problem with this which is why I keep talking about some women. Bc I care about some women I tend to treat women certain ways. Bc the stakes is high for too many women.

I don’t speak to EVERY woman that passes and every woman doesn’t speak to me that I say hello to. That’s fine.

I don’t like being touched by strangers on the street or being bumped but when I get on a subway train or visit a large city it happens. It’s not assault. It’s not someone invading my space.. it’s just part of dealing with the public.

Not sure if I feel entitled but if so, I guess it’s cause I feel like I should be able to say hello if I feel like it. Now I don’t feel like I’m entitled to a response. That’s where it becomes a problem IMO.

there's no such thing as 'how it is to be in public'.

unless we have no control over ourselves and our behavior we choose how we act in public.

which means we can change how we act in public.

we have decided how to act.

>I don’t speak to EVERY woman that passes and every woman
>doesn’t speak to me that I say hello to. That’s fine.
>
>I don’t like being touched by strangers on the street or
>being bumped but when I get on a subway train or visit a large
>city it happens. It’s not assault. It’s not someone
>invading my space.. it’s just part of dealing with the
>public.

due to space limitations and all that, i can dig it.

>Not sure if I feel entitled but if so, I guess it’s cause I
>feel like I should be able to say hello if I feel like it. Now
>I don’t feel like I’m entitled to a response. That’s
>where it becomes a problem IMO.

so if women or some women say they don't want you say hello just b/c you feel like it - what then? you feel like saying hello. they don't feel like hearing you say hello.

why must you say hello just b/c you feel like it?

are you willing to stop doing it based on what some women have told you about how they feel when you to say hello just b/c you feel like it?

b/c saying hello just b/c you feel like it is you imposing yourself and your will on them. w/o considering them and their feelings. you're doing this b/c you feel like it. not b/c they invited it but b/c you feel like it.

and not say hello. Man or woman. That's how it is in the south. It's like how are you going to be in my space and not make eye contact or speak, weirdo lol

But in Sweden:
http://blogs.studyinsweden.se/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/bus-like-a-swede.jpg

I feel like we are digressing from the point which was my issue to begin with. We started with rape culture and how it is inappropriate to grab women or yell disrespectful comments, and end with don't say nothing to nobody.

>and not say hello. Man or woman. That's how it is in the
>south. It's like how are you going to be in my space and not
>make eye contact or speak, weirdo lol


I'm in Chicago. I feel the same way. But my family is southern.


>
>I feel like we are digressing from the point which was my
>issue to begin with. We started with rape culture and how it
>is inappropriate to grab women or yell disrespectful comments,
>and end with don't say nothing to nobody.


Just doesn't seem right, does it?

That's a you problem. Women don't need to accept that shit.
Bill from accounting reach out to give you pound and you not a pounder, you expect him to catch the drift not "come on bro man I'm down" you.
But flip that shit to women they need to acquiesce to your norms huh.
Herb.

Humans are social beings. Be normal. It's okay to talk to your coworkers (men or women). It's okay to talk to strangers (men or women) if you are over the age of 10.

I'm going to continue to do both because there is much value in socializing.

>That's a you problem. Women don't need to accept that shit.
>Bill from accounting reach out to give you pound and you not a
>pounder, you expect him to catch the drift not "come on bro
>man I'm down" you.
>But flip that shit to women they need to acquiesce to your
>norms huh.
>Herb.

I talk to people in networking events and leave people alone in commutes.
Simple simon ass clown.

do they have no say in what makes up the set of behaviors we call 'culture'?

i ask b/c women are speaking up and trying to tell us about their experience and we're not listening. or we hear them but act like there's no solution to the problem they have w/the way we treat them when we speak to them. we act like 'well then nobody will talk to anybody then!' i mean, some women would actually welcome that, you know. LOL

but anyway, we're minimizing what women are telling us. we're needlessly defensive. we're not willing to consider their feelings, it seems.

or what am i missing? i think maybe what y'all are lamenting isn't about the talking to women thing but something else. but i don't know.

They don't care about the people they're interacting with one way or the other. They care about the loss of an "opportunity"
Fucking clowns.

>They don't care about the people they're interacting with one
>way or the other. They care about the loss of an "opportunity"
>
>Fucking clowns.

Out here twisting themselves into knots on some 'how can I holla, then?'

You're saying women like it's universal. All (or a majority) of women would feel harassed or uncomfortable with someone saying hello and going on about their day? I don't think so

Maybe we're talking past each other...I don't know.
I feel like I'm talking about normal human interaction. Saying hello. Holding a convo if warranted. But the response I get is as if I said "grab em by the pussy"

I think you should interact with women just as you would with men. There's nothing special there.

>do they have no say in what makes up the set of behaviors we
>call 'culture'?
>
>i ask b/c women are speaking up and trying to tell us about
>their experience and we're not listening. or we hear them but
>act like there's no solution to the problem they have w/the
>way we treat them when we speak to them. we act like 'well
>then nobody will talk to anybody then!' i mean, some women
>would actually welcome that, you know. LOL
>
>but anyway, we're minimizing what women are telling us. we're
>needlessly defensive. we're not willing to consider their
>feelings, it seems.
>
>or what am i missing? i think maybe what y'all are lamenting
>isn't about the talking to women thing but something else.
>but i don't know.

But you tried it. Good for you champ.

>and not say hello. Man or woman. That's how it is in the
>south. It's like how are you going to be in my space and not
>make eye contact or speak, weirdo lol

oh so even southern millennials know how to act? impressive.

>
>so if women or some women say they don't want you say hello
>just b/c you feel like it - what then? you feel like saying
>hello. they don't feel like hearing you say hello.
>
>why must you say hello just b/c you feel like it?
>
>are you willing to stop doing it based on what some women have
>told you about how they feel when you to say hello just b/c
>you feel like it?
>
>b/c saying hello just b/c you feel like it is you imposing
>yourself and your will on them. w/o considering them and
>their feelings. you're doing this b/c you feel like it. not
>b/c they invited it but b/c you feel like it.


it's starting to seem like being civil is an act of invasion. I don't know how I feel about this.

So do we stop speaking to people and wishing them a good morning "just in case"? That's horrible.

All these niceties and shit gonna get you fucked up for no reason.

You probably still get pushed into lockers
Just own up to it. You single and scared that you don't have a quasi forced "in" to initiate that change.

I don't bother anybody, and nobody bothers me. I work in a pretty friendly environment and I'm old as shit and been here for quite a while, so I don't really have too many social problems around here.


there's no locker pushing.


for the record, I *do* tend to give the brothers that 'Blackfist on the chest' thang when we pass each other in the halls and whatnot. Unless they're one of those unfriendly Suburban Millenial types.

Quit tipping your toe in the water. The world changed whether you did or not.

> The world changed whether
>you did or not.

have you listened to any women who've explained why they may not want us to speak to them out in public like that?

when i listened the thing that struck me the most was the fact that my 'hello' doesn't occur in a vacuum. it's not just me and her. it's her and maybe dozens of men speaking to her uninvited. when she's just trying to do whatever. and our speaking to her is getting in her way. even if just for a few seconds. b/c there is this expectation of some response and i know we've said in here we're not entitled to a response but still. she's been socialized - she knows the polite thing to do is respond. and if she doesn't now she's been rude. and she's gotta carry that. when really if we didn't initiate at all she wouldn't have that.

actually that's not what struck me most it was the risk of sudden unwarned escalation that really hit me. i heard women say and i saw video evidence of that 'hello' going from pleasant to horrid w/in a few seconds out of nowhere. and we wouldn't do that but maybe some guy did it earlier today or yesterday or last week/month/year and so now when she hears 'hello' she's startled. something twitches inside her. and she freezes a bit. but she keeps it together outwardly and doesn't make a scene.

i'm dramatic though.

nevermind.

i always do this.

so i'm easily minimized and ignored here.

but just listen to them and then think about how important it is that you say hello considering what men are doing to them in the aggregate.

for the record, you're not being ignored.

for one it could be hello
for another it could be eye contact
for another it could be a smile
for another it could be because you looked at a certain part of their body
for another it could be that you complimented them

Having any type of assault is a traumatic event. They need professional help to assimilate back into society and have NORMAL contact with people.

>for one it could be hello
>for another it could be eye contact
>for another it could be a smile
>for another it could be because you looked at a certain part
>of their body
>for another it could be that you complimented them
>
>Having any type of assault is a traumatic event. They need
>professional help to assimilate back into society and have
>NORMAL contact with people.

Shame your existence is so miserable you need validation from un wanting strangers.
Nigga can't be with his own shitty thoughts, gotta project his insecurities on others.

because your projection and reaction formation to him gives off a real weird vibe

janey taught me that white privilege includes the luxury of not having to think about race. And male privilege is like that. The luxury of not having to consider what women feel bc of our behavior. Let em work it out in therapy.

Eesh

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/jayzd.gif

I don't get the nuance of these arguments

That react to a hello. I confused 2 of so what's posts

I don’t speak to them again

But if I see another woman and feel like saying hi, why not?

Why should one woman’s frustration be applied to all women?

Why the under focus on everything else in the first post.

Making it personal is such a soft move

its like talking to a white person

"well I'VE never said the n-word"

i mean, if you don't feel guilty or complicit, fine. but don't act like because you haven't participated, it invalidates whatever problem there is.

Vice's former "Male Feminist" columnist Michael Hafford is accused of drugging and violently raping several women

https://jezebel.com/former-male-feminist-columnist-faces-multiple-allegatio-1819266286?

w/o facing any repercussions - social, financial, criminal. nothing.

it happens in several ways big ones and small ones.

and we support each other when we do it. and when they complain we shut them down and drown out their voices.

we tell them that's just how it is.

when really it's just how we choose to behave. it's how we choose to treat them. we could make other choices - we don't.

Like this.

https://jezebel.com/former-male-feminist-columnist-faces-multiple-allegatio-1819266286?rev=1509727925539&utm_campaign=socialfow_jezebel_twitter&utm_source=jezebel_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

This man had a job for years after
These women are JUST now getting their stories acknowledged
And his lame ass column had dudes consigning conflating bullshit.


You dumb or your bullshitting. Which one is it.

Words are fucking it all up. Harrassment, street holla, and social interaction are sometimes all thrown in the same basket to the point we don't know what's what sometimes.


THAT'S what some guys are trying to say. I'm pretty sure we all agree certain shit is outright wrong, but what about subtle shit that has no ill will about it.


C'mon man.

SoWhat touched on it, (without misquoting him) something like people have the right to not be bothered by *nice* people. Are we REALLY that fucked up?

If you respond to rape culture by trying to completely avoid women then you're fucked up.
Like it's seriously not that hard. It shouldn't be a platinum poast.
It's not that difficult.
And I'm not joking. This isn't funny. This is exhausting and it doesn't even god damn effect me.
Like I literally don't have to change one iota of my behavior because I'm not skeevy.

Some say hi. Others ignore me. I assume some portion would prefer i didn't say hi at all. I know who is who AFTER the fact. Am I perpetuating rape culture?

>If you respond to rape culture by trying to completely avoid women then you're fucked up.

rape culture.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

not to pick on legs but he hit it when he said he says hello b/c he feels like it.

b/c HE feels like it.

not b/c she invited it. but b/c he feels like it.

that's him forcing his will w/o consideration. b/c he feels like it.

that's a small thing. at least to us.

i just said before and i'm dramatic and i always take things too far so whatever. but some women have said they've had guys take 'hello' from that polite gesture to something awful. either a rude comment or lewd gesture or something violent. and out of nowhere. and so then the future 'hello' they hear reminds them of that awful one or those awful ones. to us it's just 'hello' but to her it's somethings else. and we put that on her. b/c we feel like it.

hears hi and it takes her to a place of something unpleasant like an assault, she needs therapy. Its not deeper than that.

A woman has the right to not want anyone to talk to her on the street. Because it happens, doesn't mean some injustice has occurred or anything that is close to rape culture.

women are telling us themselves. if we hear them and decide we don't care about what they're experiencing due to our behavior toward them then i guess we don't care about what they're feeling or whatever we get out of our behavior means more than what they're experiencing.

i think that's sad.

Patrice approves.

To help them deal with their trauma and be able to have everyday interactions comfortably.

you die alone and lonely?

a whole lot less friends than I do now.

Does that answer it?

because actual goal oriented conversation starts that way too

Whats that spot called, Wet Willy's? Dudes were grabbing chicks left and right and dragging them towards their cars where their boys were waiting, in broad daylight

That is pure CAVEMAN shit. I honestly never got that level of aggressive street hollering / harassing, and how that shit still flies in 2017 is beyond me


Its time to leave these girls alone, man

Hormones, alcohol, and free time are a dangerous mix.
I think everyone expects skeevy spring break behavior.
And I think that's an extreme paradigm of rape culture that's to be addressed at another day.
Right now we're just trying to get people to understand how unsolicited catcalls/hellos/bump and grinds can be problematic.

Bc ppl (the class clowns especially) need wins so they'll do what they can to frustrate the goal since its been made clear. But what you're saying isn't absurd.

Posting like the "we don't need affirmative action" crowd. Because they know on equal footing and forced to respect the agency of other people they end up alone. They need that edge. They need that validation that they can forceably create contact because otherwise they'd be forced to reckon in quiet with their miserable ass hollow existences

Fuck them
Fuck their lives
Fuck everything they stand for.

I do think whatever I feel that compels me to want to speak to a strange woman on the street is outweighed by what I have heard about women's experience in the world at the hands of men. So I'm cool just smiling or nodding if I must and leaving it there. And I have women friends so it's not like I never speak to women. I work with women and I represent women in court and stuff. I'll speak to those women I know who have given me permission verbally and nonverbally. It's not hard.

Plenty women have no problem hearing from strangers, of course. They're telling us so during all of this too. But I choose to err on the side of letting strange women go on about their biz without my interruption bc I feel like it since I see how high the stakes is for too many. I don't know any woman who has told me they don't want strange hellos but I don't need that to reach this point. Empathy.

What's the differenc3 between a smile, nod and a hello?

to wild the fuck out.

I did Miami Memorial Day 2004, 2007 and 2009, low key on some peer pressure shit

by 2009 I hated the environment and who my friends were out there. violating women in King Of Diamonds with the reasoning being "they're strippers"

in the end I definitely felt like Michael from The Wire ("you never were one of us") and I havent really kept close quarters aside with the main perpetrator aside from him being one of my groomsmen

The playing field ain't level so there are reasons to at least consider leaving strange women alone in public. But if your hello is such a necessary social lubricant offer it to strange men. You don't need a response, right? You're just southern and normal. Tell them to smile too. Say they're handsome. Indulge that impulse. You're not skeevy and the stakes are lower there. Green light.

Sometimes we just head nod tho. I wouldn't tell them their handsome tho...I'm not gay.

Waiting for my friends to arrive (I wonder how I met them? Mixed group men and women. We were all strangers at one point. Someone must have broke protocol). Chatted about the game on the tv. Weird?

I don't know why you add all the extra stuff though (tell em to smile, call them handsome, etc). Makes you feel good beating down that straw man maybe?

>The playing field ain't level so there are reasons to at
>least consider leaving strange women alone in public. But if
>your hello is such a necessary social lubricant offer it to
>strange men. You don't need a response, right? You're just
>southern and normal. Tell them to smile too. Say they're
>handsome. Indulge that impulse. You're not skeevy and the
>stakes are lower there. Green light.

It sounds funny but if I’m walking down the street I say what’s up or give a head nod all the fucking time.

I’ve met a ton of people this way too.

How the fuck do y’all meet people irl?

>
>How the fuck do y’all meet people irl?
>
>

Just professional socialites

Like every person you meet is someone that you over took a world of fire and ice to get to and it's being advocated that your life line to the world is taken away


Yall stay home

Here's census data from 2010

According to the information provided by U. S. Census Bureau, out of a population of 307,243,000 people over age 1, 35,918,000 Americans moved between 2012 and 2013. That’s an overall percentage of 11.69 percent.

And out of those 36 million people,

23,150,000 moved within the same county,
6,961,000 moved to a different county within the same state,
4,770,000 moved to a different state, and




______
so
MOST
of
yall
in
the
same
places
that
you
grew
up
in.

The same cities you went to highschool in, or college, you got friends, family, jobs, social networks, social media, dating websites, meetup events, church ... and so on and so on


Don't play this dumb shit. It's not cute.

Plus I can't speak for the rest of em but I work in sales so I'm always in chat mode. Never know when the next convo could lead to the bag (or the ass). Gotta shoot

>Plus I can't speak for the rest of em but I work in sales so
>I'm always in chat mode. Never know when the next convo could
>lead to the bag (or the ass). Gotta shoot


First line of my post
"How every rapey post turns into a string of jokes."

Some yall niggas weird.

It was in direct response to where would I meet anyone.
Yall uninteresting ass muhfuckas still within a 10 mile radius of your highschool, knowing you know everyone as it is.

Now there should something wrong with wanting to meet new folks. Lol and then niggas wonder why these posts turn to jokes.

Rape is wrong. Forcing yourself on someone in any capacity is wrong. Insisting after no is wrong.

Saying hi to strangers is not wrong.

Half the people in Charlotte are from up north.

and it’s OKP. Most of us are college educated and moved to major cities for work.

You are using fly over state stats Bruh...

and no snark but I think you said you looked at cities based on your chances dating online. Maybe that’s the problem. Half of OKP anti social as shit and live online or chill at home

I prolly spoke to 20 people today in charlotte. Hella shit going on downtown. We speak down here b.

>Half the people in Charlotte are from up north.
>
>and it’s OKP. Most of us are college educated and moved to
>major cities for work.
>
>You are using fly over state stats Bruh...
>
>and no snark but I think you said you looked at cities based
>on your chances dating online. Maybe that’s the problem.
>Half of OKP anti social as shit and live online or chill at
>home
>
>I prolly spoke to 20 people today in charlotte. Hella shit
>going on downtown. We speak down here b.
>
>

Ok. So this is what we're doing.
You're so hung up on the idea of speaking because of your weak ass argument that's what we're doing today.
Insecurity can be a bitch, I understand, and while you grapple with that I hope you're ok.
Them transplants aint move for you. That's for sure.
You should know that, but if not, let me inform you.
Meanwhile as a person that's migrated twice for work, the first thing people do is reach out to the numerous networks they're a part of.
You should know that, but if not let me tell you. That's what people do.
They don't move to Charlotte to work and look to talk to random niggas at the stop light or safeway.
You should know that, but if not let me tell you. That's how people are.
People date online and in person in 2017 or 2012, which is when I moved. And if you wanted to see a look at dating population of a city, rather than just demographic data, you'd take a peak at who's presenting themselves. Whether it's FB, bumble, okcupid, match, or even meetup. It's really no different that looking at google maps to see what a neighborhood looks like.
You should know that, but it's ok to project your ignorance on me, I can take it.
Congratulations on talking to 20 people today. I bet it felt good to count and have your experience validated. I spoke to two people today and neither of those numbers tells us anything about what we were talking about. Which was rape culture right?
I believe I made a post about rape culture.
I believe I made a post asking why people would rather make jokes than talk about consent
I believe I made a post that came after people feeling some kind of way about not grinding on strangers.
And I believe in that post a bunch of bammas bamma'd it up arguin for the innocuous hi's and hellos and trying to make that a blanket skeeviness.
I don't have an answer for why someone would do that. Maybe you do. Maybe you can tell me why it makes you so uncomfortable to talk about rape culture that you can't get past hi and hello. Maybe you can be the person that let's me know what kind of a man builds straw men arguments over salutations rather than address a real culture that gives cover to predators and paints a broad brush over all men.
Because I'm not that man. I'm simply a man that want's a better world for all people, women included. I'm a man with a LOT of women friends. And I've always gotten a lot of questions about that, the idea of "how", and it's easy. Just don't try to fuck every woman you meet.
You see legs that's a majority of men you meet, if you don't know that you should. A majority of men see every woman as an opportunity. A lot of them are skeevy enough to use rape and rape culture to peruse those opportunities.
That's the audience you're a part of now.
Good luck with that.

Maybe you should talk to more than 2 people..

What’s funny is half those folks talked to me first.

Wait til you have a kid too.. hella folks gonna y’all to you b.

And I'm here for it.

that not only are our greetings not always wanted, but it can ultimately be a safety issue for the women. we don't tend to think of safety when we just want to acknowledge a woman's presence or say hi walking down the street.

but she may very well be thinking what's this dude up to or what's his agenda. so even tho most of us will never assault/rape a woman, she doesn't know that. there are too many incidents of shit going the wrong way, that she has to think of her on own well-being cuz the dude probably isn't.

that's not to say that we should never speak, especially in an office setting. I'm a friendly type dude and sit in a spot where men and women pass me all the time. some I speak to, some I don't. depends on the vibe.

To ignore us and not respond.

Any Dude that pushes a convo with any one else who shows no interest in communicating is doing too much

Not trying to be an asshole but I think it’s the exact opposite. I think prolly 95% of dudes saying hi have no ill will.

Now that 5% or whatever the actual number is definitely is foul as fuck but why should decent dudes let the fucked up ones define who they are?

Shit just seems odd to me. It really reminds me of how the police treat Black folk based on stats or shit they see on the news. Everyone is fearing for their lives because of the big bad Black man. Smh

.. and it’s not like most dudes on here are cornering women so they can speak to them in public.

I’ve been on this earth for 40+ years and never had a bad incident from saying hi... I’m sorry but I’m not going to stop being nice because a few dudes are assholes.

Like how do we end up back at "hi" and ignore everything else.
Like y'all wanna argue for the most innocuous shit without addressing anything else. Y'all ain't really get into consent, y'all ain't really get into grinding on a stranger, y'all ain't really get into power dynamics. Y'all picked the most questionable part and linger about it because you ain't really have nothing else to stand on.

Because the whole shit is disingenuous.

Y'all don't care about making a better and safer world for women. Not in the least.

No. Saying hi isn't the worst shit you could do to contribute to the problem. Which is why so many of y'all keep staying there arguing for the bare minimum.

Niggas don't even like going to the mall or the car dealership because they gotta question every single hi and avoid eye contact just to get a polo or some floor mats.
But let Susan Jane try to get to hot yoga and multiply the number of interactions by 20 and that's what every single day is like.

The guys who shit ok women, curse them out and press the issue are wrong as fuck.

That being said, why do y’all continually try to make dudes who aren’t harming women responsible for those who do?

Do I really make the world a safer place for women by not speaking to them?

Guess what happens when all the men stop talking to women in pubilic? Think pieces about how women are being ignored and aren’t acknowledged in public.

There has to be a batter way. I think my way works. I’m not evil to women in public. I try to be as respectful as possible without viewing women as invisible entities who I somehow see yet don’t acknowledge.

IMO y’all are carrying guilt you have no reason to carry.

>The guys who shit ok women, curse them out and press the
>issue are wrong as fuck.

Ok.

>That being said, why do y’all continually try to make dudes
>who aren’t harming women responsible for those who do?

You sound white.

>Do I really make the world a safer place for women by not
>speaking to them?

Nigga what the fuck are you talking about.

>Guess what happens when all the men stop talking to women in
>pubilic? Think pieces about how women are being ignored and
>aren’t acknowledged in public.

You build great strawmen.

>There has to be a batter way. I think my way works. I’m not
>evil to women in public. I try to be as respectful as possible
>without viewing women as invisible entities who I somehow see
>yet don’t acknowledge.

Yeah. Exactly. So quit trying to bend the full argument.

>IMO y’all are carrying guilt you have no reason to carry.

I literally don't have to change one bit of my behavior.

Yall niggas.. lol

You wanna talk nonstop about greetings and salutations

Why.

What the hell is wrong with yall

Street hollering is wrong
Sneak grinding on people on the dance floor is wrong
Telling anyone to smile is wrong
Using your power or status to coerce or harass anyone is wrong

What did you want? Cosigns?

I just made a point that some folks take it to an absurd and extreme level as was shown in this post.
People in this post are literally saying that greeting others is problematic.

When you are making a list of inappropriate behavior and something innocuous like saying hello to people ends up on it, there's going to be push back focused on that particular item.

It makes your argument weaker when you put you introduce ridiculous things into it.

>Street hollering is wrong
>Sneak grinding on people on the dance floor is wrong
>Telling anyone to smile is wrong
>Using your power or status to coerce or harass anyone is
>wrong
>
>I just made a point that some folks take it to an absurd and
>extreme level as was shown in this post.
>People in this post are literally saying that greeting others
>is problematic.

No they're not. They're saying it can be problematic and then directly addressing the dudes they are saying women just need to take it, that it's their burden to deal with, and that because THEY mean well women should just take it. Which is a problematic mindset.


>
>When you are making a list of inappropriate behavior and
>something innocuous like saying hello to people ends up on it,
>there's going to be push back focused on that particular item.
>

You sound like white people.
People don't hang on to one part of a full argument because of the argument. They find the one part they can just pick at because they don't have a full counter argument. I'm not dumb. People argue in bad faith for a number of reasons.

They can ignore or respond to whoever they want to.

And I use greetings in many situations TO put women at ease. And they relax and loosen up.

Some women will be more uncomfortable if you are in their presence and don't speak in certain situationsI can't predict who wants what...but I know my motives and am gonna be me. If Im aware that my interaction made someone uncomfortable, I'd apologize and move on.

I'd venture to say that most cops aren't bad. but there are enough that are assholes that you and I have to be cautious in how we operate. we have to tell our kids how to behave when cops show up or how to behave when trying to avoid cops.

but when those bad cops stop you, you just have to take it. would you rather the cop just leave you the fuck alone, especially if you're just minding your business?

I'm not saying for you not to be nice to women or anyone else. just know that she may view it with a different lens regardless of your intention.

>I'm not saying for you not to be nice to women or anyone else.
>just know that she may view it with a different lens
>regardless of your intention.


The issue is folks saying don't speak to women bc it's rape culture.

or creeping up from behind.

If its dark and a woman is walking the opposite direction and she looks me in the face I'm prolly going to speak.

I get your analogy but cops are a little different cuase yiu cant ignore them.

I feel you tho.

well done, MEAT, et. al.

d

With rape and sexual assault and the culture around it when it suits them politically.

Maybe I'm buggin

not keeping the same energy she had with Kavanaugh and applying it to Joe Biden.

she went from believe all women to gotta hear both sides.

I've even skimmed across articles accusing Me Too and Time's Up trying to put the hush on this woman that accused Biden.

I can't call it though.

One group wants trump gone at all costs (i'll cop to being part of said group), and the other group only cares about Tara Reade in the context of the purpose she serves.

the people calling out Alyssa Milano are a combo of disgruntled bernie supporters, and right wingers (or even just people who can't stand liberals) who get off on pointing out liberal feminist hypocrisy.

it's the bad faith olympics and there won't be an honest conversation about the biden thing until after the election, if ever.

All this shit just makes me incredulous. I don't know who's genuine and who ain't anymore

"believe all women"




www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

i honestly didnt start seeing that phrase until right wingers started using it to accuse liberals of either extremism or hypocrisy.

someone writing about the biden accusation in the post used it specifically to claim that serious usage of it in the past was "dumb" and the only real reference I could find was bari in the nyt claiming someone else used it, without citing a source.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

>the only real reference I could find was bari
>in the nyt claiming someone else used it, without citing a
>source.

but it's social media so I don't put a whole lot of stock into that.

back in the day on okp when anyone presented a question or asked for more info they were called rapey.

now these same people have flipped because we need Trump to lose.

But no one is going to admit their hypocrisy.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

https://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13320442&mesg_id=13320442&listing_type=search#13320859

I've held up my end

but I do note that you're a liar

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

I don't and haven't replied to anything you typed or mentioned your hoe ass screen name (outside of this little engagement) since that post. Have a blast looking for anything that says otherwise.

Anyway, there's your reminder.

And that's all your hoe ass is getting from me.

that shit's up to you.

I promised you I didn't give a fuck about your existence and I've held up my end of the bargain so we should be goof.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

>With anything when
>it suits them politically.
>
>Maybe I'm buggin

Including the global spread of an infectious disease, school shootings, etc. I guess the lack of surprise about it makes me cynical, but you could say that about myriad issues affecting different groups of people in life or death ways.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

Cause all the people on OKP who are usually quick to jump up and defend an accuser have been silent as fuck.

and we know why.

ON your currency bills,

many of the celebrated politicans.

Celebrated on bridges, colleges, highways, schools etc

the reason 30% of Black men have a European y lineage.

The constant projection of being rapist by the original rapist.

Pedophilia and sly normalized methods to make children sexual.

Hollywood

Prisons

etc etc