inspired by this rag n bone cat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3wKzyIN1yk

Adele, Amy Winehouse, Sam Smith, Lukas Graham, Ed Sheeran, etc...

I mean, they're all good.... but I know the UK got a TON of blk ppl... don't tell me there aint any black soulful cat that don't deserve to blow up internationally....

mind u, u got the lite brite with a white parent all star that do get some shine internationally: Corrine bailey rae, emeli sandé, lianne la havas... looks like they all came from the Sade blueprint...

does the UK Music Industry have a paperbag test?

thus no soul or jazz for that matter and certainly no brits of African descent being able to create such a sound from that experience

white brits are able to produce an amy winehouse but blk brits with roots in Jamaica or Nigeria cant produce soulful artists?

c'mon now

for the above reasons. There is a direct progression from blues to rock to jazz to rap -- all of that is uniquely black experience in America not black experience in the UK. There is a completely different set of cultural factors and influences going on.

the fuck you talking about?

*DANCEHALL AIR HORN*

seems like black folks over there are more into that and electro types of sounds

maybe they don't want to be in the shadow of US black folks?

maybe music companies keep them down and the white artists up? (would be my guess)

everything isn't about slavery or the history of racism.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

I'll never understand this idea that slavery only existed in the United States.

among black folks there as opposed to R&B. That's my impression at least.

At least in the last 20 years or so.

It just doesn't have that soul/swing to it that I desire.

some of my online soccer buddies feed me new tracks to check out.

Stormzy, Skepta and Wiley. Bars ain't bad, but those fucking beats, man. Headache in 10 minutes or less. Those kinda beats are trash to me, man.

I did dig the flow and the bars tho.

if there's one UK album that could crossover internationally I'd say it was this album

i just dont ever see it popping hard over here. they got nice flows and beats you need subtitles to catch everything theyre saying. and not in a young thug "it doesnt matter what he's saying" way either.

who the fuck bumps that in the whip?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKNoUYr5wZc

Dego & Kaidi - Backchat For Toprock
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPOYDqz0ntE

Hawk House - Tidal Tendencies
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhOkRfhmwCk

This is why I hate streaming services....can't stay up on shit anymore...
The latest album I see from him on Google Play Music is from 2017 Love In Beats....which I totally missed somehow.



"Get ready....for your blessing....."

or some trip hop emo white shit...

but it's always some white person doing that good old soul for some reason.

Not sure what that's about.

But ya'll don't give a shit

still dont get why the artists being named in the thread aint blowing up internationally like those white artists I named I nthe original post... can u confirm if they are at least getting the same numbers as the white soul artists within the UK?

You need something unique. You need to stand out.

probably goes something like that

Not sure what album the songs I listened to are on, but this girl sings over some really wack beats. I've long thought the same thing about Lianne La Havas: great vocals, terribly-boring backing music.

Maybe I'm just spoiled on US jazz/soul.

she was incredible live

But her voice is very distinct.

but of course you're right, there is something racial afoot

guess Joy Denalane fits the lite brite thing, plus she's German ... also dope. one of my favorites is Shaun Escoffery



<=========================================
https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/PYzh4v9cSf4FDnq3yMQyqNqh79o=/800x0/filters:no_upscale%28%29/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/4079674/jlio.0.gif

Deeper
https://soundcloud.com/iamnobodi/deeper-featuring-emmavie#t=0:22

I Hope We Never Break Up
https://soundcloud.com/emmavie100/ihwnbu

No, Dont/Incomplete
https://soundcloud.com/alfamist/no-dont-incomplete#t=3:00

Are they obsessed? Or is that the only thing america will let through?

Emile Sande was basixally the biggest thing since adele on her first album... same exact set up as sam smith (before sam).. she sells millions in UK and barely does 250k here.

I think we have an issue with foreign black ppl

getting paste is pan handling to get what we have naturally

in fact, both are better than most american soul acts.

not even close

especially Amy

It's not solely a demographic issue but you have to keep in mind there's only about 1 to 2 million black people in the UK making up around 3% of the population. That's nothing compared to America. Around half of them are of west Indian heritage and half of them are of African heritage. So reggae is pretty big in comparison to soul or rnb. Also have to remember most of those black people immigrated to England during the 60's and 70's so there isn't a long history of black music there.

My SO was a black brit. Aside from reggae....her parents used to listen to alot of 'northern soul' which is a pretty good starting point to google for black british soul. Late 60's and onwards....It sounds alot like American rnb and was popular amongst british mods and skinheads.

Here's a pretty good playlist:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB3bW6I5gEA&list=PLD7D13FBD8A0E7572

That scene led into disco and the changeover put more focus on the DJ and less focus on live music. Some have argued that this was a detrimental shift because American records took over and there was less need to create their own stuff. Still have to note Average White Band, Hot Chocolate and the Beegees were British.

There's a great documentary about Soul 2 Soul out there called "Jazzie B’s 1980s: From Dole to Soul" that has some racial context. Of course then there was the early 90's acid jazz scene with Incognito, The Brand New Heavies, etc.

Practically all those classic singles were released on american recordcompanies by american singers. It's essentially a british record-collector culture based on a reasonably recognizable sound (mainly the mid-60's Motown sound) where american songs and artists have become "famous" due to their status within that culture rather than the afro-american. It's still american music made by americans though.

The reggae subgenre known as "lovers rock" in the UK is a better example of a "homegrown" black genre based on outside influences.

The atmosphere in the post-industrial North during the 70s and 80s left a disenfranchised working-class population that needed a way of blowing off steam... clubnights like Twisted Wheel dug out forgotten classics and rarities from the US labels and gave them new life with a new audience.

That seems really strange then. There were black American singers making music specifically for a UK market? Did they KNOW that their music was gonna be heard mostly exclusively in the UK? Why would it even be called 'northern soul'? I'm guessing because they knew it was only gonna get distributed in the UK and not America?

The music was made for the american market. however, already during the mod-movement (before actually if you count tbe brits interest in obscure american blues like Robert Jobnson), tbere was an interest in more obscure american (and jamaican for tbat matter) black music amongst certain brits. bands were looking for songs to cover, hip mod dudes wanted to go beyond just the hits (and in the UK's predominantly white culture, soul wasn't *that* successful outside of Motown).

Anyway, the mods and other brits frequently didn't like the change in black music towards a more "album-oriented", jazzy, "funky" or psych-influenced sound and since they couldn't just listen to the same Motown hits over and over, there was an interest in finding frequently obscure singles (alternatively, regional american soul-hits that didn't hit nationally orinternationally)so they could keep the party going into the 70's and beyond; the term "northern" simply comes from the fact that clubs in the north of *england* tended to play this music and a culture developed there around it.

It's very similar to garage-rock; many (well, some) people were disillusioned by the changes in rock that ocurred during the psych- and prog- and heavy-eras; since they couldn't just play "Satisfaction" and "You really got me" over and over, people started to look towards the virtually thousands of obscure and/or local US rock singles released in 65-67 and in the process, the terms garage-rock and punk (yup!) were coined-ovbiously, those acts didn't regard themselves as garage-rock (practically an insult) during the 60's; like Nortern soul, it's a revisionist term applied to music made years before term existed. "Rare grooves" is another example.

I was working at a soul / funk reissue label and there were competitors putting out northern soul comps left and right. Many were not obviously British and I assumed that somehow the featured artists were all michigan, Ohio, Illinois based (hence northern). I couldn't believe such a widely popularized culture of reissue / rediscovery was completely removed from the music's geographic origins.

aforementioned artists. I don't know if there is an underground soul scene anymore. I don't know what happened to ppl like Tawiah etc. It's like there's no space for you if you're not making grime or rap.

Very interesting topic... something I've been thinking of a lot and will dump some thoughts (more to come)

The majority of the artists you listed, Adele, Rag & Bone, Sam Smith, & Ed Sheeran aren't marketed as "Blue Eyed Soul". The black influence from these artists is kept silent in their success. Their appeal is that are they are no doubt talented, don't appear to be manufactured, and they don't look like popstars. Each act can be related to, and they look like the British audience that's buying their records. Also their fan base reaches to all ages, 10yrs to 80yrs old of a white audience. Amy Winehouse is the only one I think was different to this - she appealed to the Black audience (like myself)

Why aren't black singers doing the same? I've noticed with the White artists their singles have a similar mold, very simple harmonically and perfect for advertisements, and shows that need a backing to their 'uplifting moment montage' (I'm looking at you X Factor). Look at songs like a 'Stay with me', 'Human' or 'Chasing Pavements' and these songs have common themes which are played everywhere. Black artists in the UK don't have these songs under their belt to push them to that international level

Err what about Labyrinth and Emeli?

"Get ready....for your blessing....."

It was probably posted here.
Anyway, she said she could never have gotten where she was if she stayed in the U.K.

https://youtu.be/cocS8e0551M

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BAN DEM !

Shit minus well be literal mumble mouth rap, because I understood 1/50 words.



Edit: I'm keep it real, this shit is trash yo. lol. Fuck this shit.

is well worth your time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9KxqBiE_YQ

https://oceanwisdom.bandcamp.com/album/chaos-93

Been skimming through some interviews with the author of a new book HIt Makers... and he talks about Raymond Loewy and his M.A.Y.A principle

People dont want new... they want slightly repackaged familiar things... Derek Thompson (the author) talks about the shift to actual data when soundscan came into the picture (and eventually the people meter later on) showed that people just want to listen to pretty much what they like over and over again.

Loewy (who designed everything from logos and cars to the shuttle capsule) used his Most Advanced Yet Acceptable philosophy.

When we talk "blue-eyed soul" I think we are falling into the same principle. The music is extremely familiar YET plot-twist the singer is white.

This isnt just used there either. Thompson also argues that The Weeknd for instance found success when he pushed himself to sound MORE like MJ but Plot-twist he is singing about coke and strippers.

Ariana Grande is also a benefit of this. Her first album was basically Mariah Carey lite singing Brandy songs with classic hip hop samples. If Jordin Sparks would've dropped those songs (she co-wrote them) it would've been TOO familiar TOO obvious.

But lil ol Ariana.. thats new

Black brits are missing something. When they get it, it is usually with the help of some Americanness.

Omar is the only artist I sort of like.

Black Brits might have us beat on the acting tip though!

Don't know what happened.

It's a little bizarre.

They are consumers of music but not too many bother actually making anything beyond regurgitating whatever's happening in the US.

They're just bland as fuck when it comes to pretty much anything, music, politics, business.

It could be the case that it's a lot harder for Black Brits to have a shared musical history since their heritage(s) are so varied, but you would think that would seed more innovation than what we've seen so far.

I'm sure some will take offence at this opinion, but that's what I see.

A lot of US "Neo-Soul" took its blueprint from the UK:

Soul II Soul - Back to life, Keep on Movin
Loose Ends
Brand New Heavies
Des'Ree
Incognito
Omar
I could go on and on.

This was before D'Angelo, Maxwell, Erykah etc.

Just because the current generation doesn't seem that interested in soul music (compared to Hip-Hop/Grime/AfroBeats, for instance) doesn't mean they're "bland as fuck".

>It's a little bizarre.
>
>They are consumers of music but not too many bother actually
>making anything beyond regurgitating whatever's happening in
>the US.
>
>They're just bland as fuck when it comes to pretty much
>anything, music, politics, business.
>
>It could be the case that it's a lot harder for Black Brits to
>have a shared musical history since their heritage(s) are so
>varied, but you would think that would seed more innovation
>than what we've seen so far.
>
>I'm sure some will take offence at this opinion, but that's
>what I see.

jesus christ.

but took time to shit on black brits and black brit music.

the same black brits that have invented 6-7 genres of music/movements in the same time span that hip-hop/R&B was the sole and dominant output of black american youth. just because you don't like something does not make it bad music.

to answer your question, the UK record industry signs black, white (loads) and mixed looking soul-influenced artists. white people in the US embrace their white UK cousins when they come across the pond. black people in the US considerably more insular in their listening habits. (Maybe they have enough music of their own) But this is not new. You should read up on Bob Marley and his label's frustration with cracking the black American market while he was alive.

So as a black UK soul artist, your American market is limited to adventurous okayplayery types. Which is cool cache but not enough to make any dent in the mainstream. UK Black artists that unashamedly bypass the black cosign will have a better chance of mainstream success in the US. But is that the type of success they envision? No. They come in to the US market getting remixes, touring and collaborating with their Af-Am peers in hopes of cracking that market. But mostly just end up a novelty.

On a side note. Can we name one international black act who managed to crack the African-American market specifically? Like black people love him/her yet white people barely know or mess with the artist?

Floetry,
Estelle...

Shit even Amy W. all broke in US with US Producers and (sensibilities tbh). They were attached to a US scene/sound at the time not a UK one...

I was asking about artists with minimal white acceptance but sizable black audience.
Floetry counts. Though they never became HUGE.

You are right I never read the last sentence... lol

My point was that Floetry and Estelle weren't perceived (in the US) as international per say.

Their promo and sound came out of the US. They were connected to homegrown movements. They are very different than Labyrinth, Emeli, Tinie or Jorja crossing over to a black audience here.

I dont know the make up of her crowd but Corinne might be the last to connect with a black audience first. I am not sure where Lianne la Havas falls either. I dont really know who goes to her US shows now.

Their career was short lived though.
Estelle had one song and a hot 15 minutes in the states.
I don't think she can do full tours in the states just based on that.

>but took time to shit on black brits and black brit music.
>
>the same black brits that have invented 6-7 genres of
>music/movements in the same time span that hip-hop/R&B was the
>sole and dominant output of black american youth. just because
>you don't like something does not make it bad music.
>
>to answer your question, the UK record industry signs black,
>white (loads) and mixed looking soul-influenced artists. white
>people in the US embrace their white UK cousins when they come
>across the pond. black people in the US considerably more
>insular in their listening habits. (Maybe they have enough
>music of their own) But this is not new. You should read up on
>Bob Marley and his label's frustration with cracking the black
>American market while he was alive.
>
>So as a black UK soul artist, your American market is limited
>to adventurous okayplayery types. Which is cool cache but not
>enough to make any dent in the mainstream. UK Black artists
>that unashamedly bypass the black cosign will have a better
>chance of mainstream success in the US. But is that the type
>of success they envision? No. They come in to the US market
>getting remixes, touring and collaborating with their Af-Am
>peers in hopes of cracking that market. But mostly just end up
>a novelty.
>
>On a side note. Can we name one international black act who
>managed to crack the African-American market specifically?
>Like black people love him/her yet white people barely know or
>mess with the artist?
>
>
>
>
>

Not just white people, but everyone including
other black people. Just part of the system.
So Joss Stone gets best reggae album, Eminem
gets mentioned in everyone rap conversation
known to man (even 'best ad libs' on here,
somehow, and notice white ppl did that lol).
White folks wanna see their own do it even
if black folks created it or are known for it.
While black folks are trained to hate ourselves
so much that many of us will get around white
folks and brag about all the white artists we
listen to just to fit in in a WS system.

Dont even know how this post got THIS FAR before this simple
truth was mentioned. Ninjaz tap-danced around it and tried ta
rocket-science up a very elemental colonialistic equation:

1. Infiltrate
2. Appropriate
3. Marginalize the originator/progenitor

That simple strategem is what had euro-americans saying dumb
shit like, "Benny Goodman is the king of swing" or, "Elvis is the king of rock n roll". All of which were NEVER true.

The euro-colonial-machine(WS) is at the root of all that.

>Dont even know how this post got THIS FAR before this simple
>truth was mentioned.


Right. I've been on OKP long enough to
know that plenty ppl here like to pretend
it's something other than that tho...
especially as it pertains to entertainment.


>That simple strategem is what had euro-americans saying dumb
>shit like, "Benny Goodman is the king of swing" or, "Elvis is
>the king of rock n roll". All of which were NEVER true.
>
>The euro-colonial-machine(WS) is at the root of all that.


Eeeexactly

.

"Get ready....for your blessing....."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NSuIYwBxu4

Some him live in February.
One of the best shows I have attended in a while.

.

n/m

I'm sure it was a serious question...but still..



"Get ready....for your blessing....."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5akYnlwubDo

https://soundcloud.com/jelaniblackman/twentytothree

Terence Trent D'Arby, Omar, Estelle etc. ...

Everyone else, sure.

>
>mind u, u got the lite brite with a white parent all star that
>do get some shine internationally: Corrine bailey rae, emeli
>sandé, lianne la havas... looks like they all came from the
>Sade blueprint...
>
>does the UK Music Industry have a paperbag test?

I have black nappy head ass cousins in England who swear I focus too much on race. Meanwhile, 2 of them moved to the US because the couldn't find jobs in England. One writing on race for a mag and the other working on African culture for a US org.

They are relatively young but they were programmed by my aunts and uncles to be British. Therefore, they have aspects of their African identity that they know but don't practice or incorporate into their lives. It impacts any new creative identity outlets like dance, music, clothing and style.

They 100% of African/Caribbean ancestry.

"Get ready....for your blessing....."

Estelle, Shaun Escoffery, (the late) Lynden David Hall, Sade, Leona Lewis, Beverly Knight, Omar and Hil St Soul have been out for some time.

somewhat newer artists like Sampha, Ella Mai and Jorja Smith are doing their thing too.

they're definitely out there. as far as why white UK soul singers are seemingly more popular, I don't know. I will say that just because you're black doesn't automatically mean you're more adept to singing soul music than someone else. it's still mostly and American thing. even the black UK artists are assimilating the music over there too. plus black singers/artists in the UK are into other things that aren't quite r&b/soul music. there's obviously the rap (grime) scene as well as electronica which is huge in Europe in general.

White UK artists have always been enamored of black artists. The Beatles started out copying Little Richard. The Stones, Clapton, Led Zeppelin...all the great bands mimicked Black music. In the 80's the UK new wave artists were copying Philly soul, disco and Motown elements.

While all this was going on it appeared that Black UK artists seemed to either have more of a connection to Caribbean music or simulating what was currently going on in the US at present, vs. trying to throw back.

So if you look at the Black music scene in the UK now, it's mostly mainstream sounding R&B, or their organically grown hip-hop, grime.

Particularly from Black folks worldwide.

I say this as someone with both Black American identity and family who are Black Brits.

Black British people connected to their original homelands (Africa/ Caribbean). Their music is a reflection of their desire to maintain the identity of their homeland or just blend in with Euro culture.

They don't feel any anger toward white people, they often don't stress or see racism. Their culture is to integrate and assimilate with British identity.

Black Americans wanted to create a separate identity from whiteness. We wanted to start a whole new existence within the land of our captors. We were forced to racially mix, produce children and live side by side with our captors. This experience reshapes the brain and in order to survive we had to dig deep into our creativity to rise up.

Music was out outlet. There are no people in the world like Black Americans. If social engineering didn't try so hard to drag us down, we would be amazing.

thks
mgmt

You are looking for an American sound from Europeans.

I have lived in both cultures. White Brits mimic Black American Soul music like AI. They even admit it.

Black Brits try. This African chick is on the internet trying to sing the American National Anthem, like a Black American. However, her African-ness peaks through.

Black Brits do well if they just continue creating pop-adjacent /Euro style music. Otherwise, the don't have soul, church, religion, pain, upliftment or hope in the sound. It is just not a part of their creative experience.

u r saying Adele And Amy are mimicking soul.... i beg to differ.... but regardless, my question is why did they manage to blow up internationally.... to the point that even Black Americans, FBA/ADOS, are able to give them their props but it's hard to find a Black Brit that has reached the same level... Sade probably the best Black Brit example with universal recognition... but she is mixed which is also why i asked if there was a paper bag test in the British Music industry

im not really here to go back and forth about what is authentic soul and what isnt... im old enough to remember a time when some blk ppl didnt think Whitney Houston was soulful.... it's subjective

Blowing up internationally is a whole different can of worms..

That is essentially asking 2 different questions

1) Why does the label choose to invest in scaling this type of act?

2) Why is this the only kind of artist an American audience will accept?

The answer to these is pretty deep in the thread but basically

Labels know they can sell a twist on familiarity to a US audience. White brits doing established US genres created by black people is one of those ways.

It is EXTREMELY hard to work a foreign black artist in the US (w/o a deep us cultural connection) because up until recently that person would have to win on urban radio FIRST before crossing over to pop. e.g. Emile Sande was a huge star when you first wrote this but needed a Kendrick feature on urban radio to event get a chance and then had to open for John Legend in US while she was selling out 7500-10k cap venues outside the US.

What HAS changed fpr the better since 2017 is the rise of international sounds permeating US culture. It has allowed black artists from other countries an ability to create a foothold in the US and circumvent the traditional system. Now Davido and Burna and Tems can stand on their own genres and find huge success here which was WAY harder in 2017.

>
>Labels know they can sell a twist on familiarity to a US
>audience. White brits doing established US genres created by
>black people is one of those ways.
>
>It is EXTREMELY hard to work a foreign black artist in the US
>(w/o a deep us cultural connection) because up until recently
>that person would have to win on urban radio FIRST before
>crossing over to pop. e.g. Emile Sande was a huge star when
>you first wrote this but needed a Kendrick feature on urban
>radio to event get a chance and then had to open for John
>Legend in US while she was selling out 7500-10k cap venues
>outside the US.
>
>What HAS changed fpr the better since 2017 is the rise of
>international sounds permeating US culture. It has allowed
>black artists from other countries an ability to create a
>foothold in the US and circumvent the traditional system.
>Now Davido and Burna and Tems can stand on their own genres
>and find huge success here which was WAY harder in 2017.
>
>

There's no context for framing Adele as "someone who is taking a Black person's spot". So there's no big push to compete, or attempt to reclaim the position.

…

of being on a DISCUSSION board?

Is a bit suspect. My FIL is Nigerian. Born and raised in a traditional Nigerian/Yoruban family. He left to study and work in London probably close to 50 years ago where he’d eventually meet his wife. They lived there for many years before moving to the US. He has a large family - with many siblings in Nigeria, the UK, and US. The idea that “they don’t stress or see racism” is patently false. My wife’s cousin actually wrote a popular book about being Black in Europe (not the UK, but refutes the idea that racism isn’t stressed or noticed).

Anecdotal evidence here, but neither my FIL or his siblings goes out of their way to assimilate. They love their culture and very much strive to preserve it. When I met some of his siblings in London, they were dressed in typical west African attire…nothing about them would’ve led me to think they’re just tying to assimilate.

Many Black Brits have a better quality of life and job opportunities if they leave the UK. Some Nigerians even leave to go back to their homelands because they cannot advance in the United Kingdom, despite attending the best schools and rubbing shoulders with blue bloods.

Many Africans and Caribbeans think the British education, culture, social class, language and control is a better option than any in the world. They have pictures of the queen in their homes.

The revolutionary spirit of Black Americans does not exist in any other colonized place with black people.

I am sure that there are pockets of revolutionary Black British. However, I can not name a famous Black British freedom fighter. I can name other successful Black Brits who have navigated the system, but rebellion does not and will not happen on British land, in their music or even in their educational style.

This woman thinks that since she hasn’t heard about something that it doesn’t exist. That’s the level of ontological delusion that we’re dealing with. It’s like when Kwame Ture managed to get into England in the 1980s (despite a ban) and thought he could arrogantly speak over people about their own local experiences, and couldn’t handle it when he was challenged with superior arguments. One of my elders told me of another case with a Black lesbian from America, same attitude. Security had to escort her out of the community meeting before she caused a riot.

Lol @ “The revolutionary spirit of Black Americans does not exist in any other colonized place with black people.”

The reason Assata Shakur is in Cuba right now is because they had a real revolution. A revolution is about seizing power and restructuring a society, not a bunch of rhetoric and posturing.And we would have had another revolution in Grenada if it wasn’t for internal conflict and the US invasion. The Grenada revolution wasn’t just a pan-Caribbean affair, but it included African-Caribbean people who were originally based in the UK (Bernard Coard being a famous example). So, yeah, a bunch of our revolutionaries were killed by the American military. I remember a St Lucian security officer from a Pan-African organisation saying that his team were lucky because they were just about to leave London for Grenada just as the US invaded.

The last paragraph is pitiful. Have you not heard of two-tone ska, lovers rock, jungle or grime? Even the “fast style” in dancehall was started by African-Caribbean people in the UK and then made its way back to Jamaica.

"I can't name any, so they obviously don't exist."

smmfh

I didn't intend for my comment to be interpreted as "they don't exist". Of course there are black freedom fighters from the UK. However, the global impact, name recognition and influence sits in the shadow of the Black American Civil Rights movement.

I don't want to downplay any contributions of Black Brits. But based on how I see Black economic and social mobility in Britain, they only get ahead through assimilation, race mixing, downplaying culture and aligning with white supremacy to get ahead.

There are many pockets of black identity and pride in London, but not throughout the United Kingdom.

Why apologise if you’re just going to regurgitate the same bullshit?

The Black radical critique of the “Black Bourgeoisie” or “Black Misleadership Class” in America is all about how the Black Elite align with White Capital/Power to get ahead. This is basic shit. Haven’t you read people like Joy James, Jared Ball or Lester Spence? Even Tommy J. Curry’s critique of academic Black Feminism is about how they’ve absorbed White Supremacist ideas from criminology and 19th century Ethnology, and how those ideas have filtered down into black media and black organisational spaces.

Lol@ “There are many pockets of black identity and pride in London, but not throughout the United Kingdom”

Yeah, because Black people in the West Midlands were not pioneers when it comes to Black mentorship schemes, martial arts and self-defence organisations. And the most radical Pan-African organisation in the UK wasn’t founded in Manchester, with the strongest links to liberation movements in Africa. There’s a reason why so many South African militants in exile in the 1980s were travelling around with Antiguan passports.

>The revolutionary spirit of Black Americans does not exist in
>any other colonized place with black people.
>
>I am sure that there are pockets of revolutionary Black
>British. However, I can not name a famous Black British
>freedom fighter. I can name other successful Black Brits who
>have navigated the system, but rebellion does not and will not
>happen on British land, in their music or even in their
>educational style.

>I say this as someone with both Black American identity and
>family who are Black Brits.
>
>Black British people connected to their original homelands
>(Africa/ Caribbean). Their music is a reflection of their
>desire to maintain the identity of their homeland or just
>blend in with Euro culture.
>
>They don't feel any anger toward white people, they often
>don't stress or see racism. Their culture is to integrate and
>assimilate with British identity.
>
>Black Americans wanted to create a separate identity from
>whiteness. We wanted to start a whole new existence within the
>land of our captors. We were forced to racially mix, produce
>children and live side by side with our captors. This
>experience reshapes the brain and in order to survive we had
>to dig deep into our creativity to rise up.
>
>Music was out outlet. There are no people in the world like
>Black Americans. If social engineering didn't try so hard to
>drag us down, we would be amazing.

No lies detected in this reply AT ALL.

We know how bad racism is when we're 13% of the population. Can you imagine how bad it is when you're only 4%?
I was watching "Is That Black Enough For You" on Netflix, and a black woman director from the UK said racism is more upfront in the US, so you can fight it because you can see it, but in the UK, white people act like racism "NEVER existed". We see how Zendaya and other light brites are constantly cast as the "black characters" in movies. I've also listened to black guys in the UK talk about how interracial dating is pretty much the norm for black ppl over there. Mori makes a good point when she talks about their goal being total assimilation. I can only imagine how SUPER EASY it must be to practice racism/racial discrimination against black folks who are only 4% of the population AND are tripping over themselves to assimilate. That exactly why they don't even see racism when it's right in front of them... either that or just don't care, because they feel like it's the way things are supposed to be.

>We know how bad racism is when we're 13% of the population.
>Can you imagine how bad it is when you're only 4%?
>I was watching "Is That Black Enough For You" on Netflix, and
>a black woman director from the UK said racism is more upfront
>in the US, so you can fight it because you can see it, but in
>the UK, white people act like racism "NEVER existed". We see
>how Zendaya and other light brites are constantly cast as the
>"black characters" in movies. I've also listened to black guys
>in the UK talk about how interracial dating is pretty much the
>norm for black ppl over there. Mori makes a good point when
>she talks about their goal being total assimilation. I can
>only imagine how SUPER EASY it must be to practice
>racism/racial discrimination against black folks who are only
>4% of the population AND are tripping over themselves to
>assimilate. That exactly why they don't even see racism when
>it's right in front of them... either that or just don't care,
>because they feel like it's the way things are supposed to
>be.

i know tons of Black Brits whose goal has never been total assimilation just like the U.S. is also filled with Clarence Thomas and Candace Owens.... Mori said a lot of stuff in this post.... i probably disagree with most of what she said...

blk ppl all over the globe have a variety of experiences depending on their locations... we have diverse cultures and created a plethora of subcultures.... but to me, we absolutely have way more in common with each other than these differences some of us like to emphasize

>i know tons of Black Brits whose goal has never been total
>assimilation just like the U.S.

Yet we still have to fight for our respect and representation in the U.S. with only a fraction of 13% actually fighting. Imagine how much LESS representation you get when there's a fraction of FOUR PERCENT fighting for it. That's all I'm saying. It's easier to drown them out, because there are much less of them.

Just like America, white people lift up artists who look like themselves by sheer numbers. 66% of America is white, 13% black. The UK tho? 88% white, 4% black. This is why you see less black representation, even in music. White people are damn near 90% of the population.

when asking about black representation in music?

of tripping over themselves to assimilate.

Yall have one conversation with one person and make up your whole mind on a whole group of people. You know who else does that??!?


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

You know who else does that?
It's funny yall think I'm only referring to one person.
(Idk why we're saying "yall". I'm just engaging as you've requested here.)
This isn't something I've only heard from one person. Also, I've already spoken on the fact that it doesn't apply to the WHOLE group. It's just that a fraction of 4% is an extremely small percentage of people forming a resistance.
Also, Small Axe is about the 60's to 80's, correct? Haven't seen it so I wouldn't know. I'm talking about today. It's like watching a documentary on Huey and the Panthers and thinking Black people in America get down like that today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZKywzRJa_Y

Kinda arrogant for people that think that culture is trivial when it comes to music, art, etc.

No way I'd go around thinking that I could make authentic Nigerian Highlife or Jamaican Reggae as a Black American just because I'm a big fan of the music. I am not a part of those cultures, so the best I would be able to do is copy and interpret it through my Black American lens. The same concept applies to other cultures trying to imitate Black Americans.

The same applies to white British artists like Amy Winehouse & Adele too. A good imitation is still just an imitation. Led Zeppelin made a whole career off imitating Black American Blues artists (and a few white American artists as well).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpks7iSMuUQ

i discovered Don't Let Me Fall within the past couple years, sad but great song.

but, i've never cared about her stuff or SAULT's either so.

i'm sure her usual fans will eat it up though.

he's pretty nice.

has a couple blue eyed soul slaps but is also kind of doing a pop thing (which was also good from what i heard).

not sure what direction he's gonna go in, but i just have feeling he's going Robin Thicke because he's getting a lot of attention for being a) white and b) Will Ferrell's kid and making that kind of music.

I've only heard a handful of songs. But you pointed out what me & the little lady said. He's pure Robin Thicke...at least early Robin Thicke.