thinking about 3 of the Greatest shows to emerge over the past 20 years
and what was it about them that you didn't like?

if anything

I found very few characters to be likable on the Sopranos. I loved the show, but I formed no real attachment to any character.

The Wire....season 2 on first viewing. Jarring change. I like it better now though. Took a long time. The newspaper angle in season 5 had promise but it never fully clicked with me. That's all I got though. Incredible show.

Breaking Bad>>>>>>>Dexter.

The characters didn't have the same appeal as other seasons. More specifically, they weren't likeable. I hated those annoying two white kids and Frank. The wire did a really good job of making the characters multi-layered....no one's perfect, no one's imperfect. Season 2 was the acception.

Ziggy was the absolute worst. I like the female cop on the docks and some of the other minor dock characters.

They could've cut both of them out and just went with the dock smuggling angle. Or at least had made Ziggy a dork-turned-junkie vs a wannabe thug.

even if they ended up kind of crappy people, they didn't ask to be born into that life.

he's one of my least favorite characters on ANY TV show.

In fact, he was one of the characters I disliked the most.

Season 5 of the Wire and the whole "creating a serial killer" angle felt a bit too outlandish/far-fetched.

I don't mind Wire Season 2 as much as others, while the characters were not as compelling, I like the racial dichotomy it pushed at the viewer. Lots of people viewed Stringer/Avon and crew simply as bad guys, while simultaneously having empathy for Frank Sobotka and the union guys for simply trying their best to deal with economic hardships.

>Season 5 of the Wire and the whole "creating a serial killer"
>angle felt a bit too outlandish/far-fetched.

^^ was the most unbelievable story in the show. I said that to someone who countered with Hamsterdam but then Hamsterdam kinda sorta happened somewhere so I turned out to be right. Haha.

Season 5 does get better at the end though. I actually loved season 2, I thought it was great. The idea for season 6 was to focus on the Latino community, I wish that would have happened.

>The idea for season 6 was
>to focus on the Latino community, I wish that would have
>happened.

Never heard about it.

apparently they felt like they didn't know enough Latinos to do it the right way.

>apparently they felt like they didn't know enough Latinos to
>do it the right way.

Thanks for looking into it.

as makaveli said above, Simon and Burns didn't feel they had enough expertise to do the subject matter justice

>I found very few characters to be likable on the Sopranos. I
>loved the show, but I formed no real attachment to any
>character.

Really ? I loved basically all of them. Begrudgingly/reluctantly, of course. Because so many of them were deplorable people. But how could you not love Sil and Paulie ?! Paulie was insane and a terrible person but he was like a puppy dog.


>The Wire....season 2 on first viewing. Jarring change. I
>like it better now though. Took a long time. The newspaper
>angle in season 5 had promise but it never fully clicked with
>me. That's all I got though. Incredible show.

Season 2 is def a jarring change but upon repeat viewings you recognize just how vital it is to the big picture. Season 2 is probably my 3rd favorite season. Season 5 is easily the worst. Was the laziest of all of them.

He was too dramatic and whiny to be a likable asshole to me.

I guess I just like Paulie because I rewound more of his parts than anyone else's in the show. When he took the shovel to the landscaping dude I lost it.

With you know who getting killed in the bathroom and now dexter has to raise his son just like harry raised him. Sorry trying to avoid spoilers...smh
_____________________________________________________
"You can win with certainty with the spirit of "one cut". "Musashi Miyamoto

And he was black!

They alluded to Herc having some brutality charges, but implied that it wasn't out of racial animus and that he was fundamentally harmless and unbiased.

I think The Wire tried really hard to make *everyone* redeemable, or at least make it so that the viewer understood why someone was the way they were or sympathized with them even if they had some bad qualities. That's one of the things I liked about the show, even if it can be considered unrealistic. In other words some people are just *bad* people. Think The Wire was more interested in showing that people are complex and multi-layered, even those that do terrible things.

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/thewirehbotv/images/4/4d/Images000.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/250?cb=20120601141353

he didn't strike me as a dirty cop though. Just a former military head-busting kinda dude.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9v4yPm2lRg

sense.

They're obsessed with ripping and running. They take shortcuts when they don't need to. They don't take responsibility for the actions, even (and especially) when their actions are destructive, because they believe they're doing the right thing. Think of how much destruction Herc's actions caused throughout the series, and all the while he remained oblivious to all of it. And, like most bad police, he continued to fail upwards.

I really liked the Wire but couldn't help but feel they fell into the trap of what they intended to avoid. For a series that was honourably attempting to blur the lines usually present in cop dramas....there were times that the feel of it became a more traditional cops vs robbers narrative.`

Shot-up his own squad car and lied about it, and got away with it all because of nepotism. It was black UC he shot and killed.

They did go and try to redeem his character when he became a teacher, but he was pretty bad anytime he was on the street.

On the nose BS with a great premise for a 3 season show (maybe). But it was bad.

The other 2 shows are near flawless. Dexter isn't in the ballpark.

Great moments were often over shadowed by kids (teenagers) who shouldnt be in front of a camera.

>RE: things you didn't like about THe Wire,Sorpranos and Dexter??

... how dark it became in the last 2 seasons (5 and 6, both parts). It was still a remarkable, amazingly written show with phenomenal acting. But what drew me to the show was how the writers were able to make otherwise disgusting actions and scenarios have a twinge of humor to them. The very first scene being indicative of what I mean. Two gangsters are chasing down your everyday businessman asking for money and beating the absolute piss out of him but somehow the writers made me laugh throughout.

The first 4 seasons or so were dominated by moments like these. I found that season 5 and 6 were short on those dark humor moments, and focused just on the "dark".

My only gripe with The Wire, as I mentioned in a reply above, was the fake serial killer storyline. It was poorly planned out and while I understood the writers wanted to show how fed up McNulty was with the system, I just thought they could've found a much better and more believable way to do it.

Outside of the above I legit cannot really think of any problems I had with either show in the big picture. There's probably a million little gripes I could come up with about specific episodes or seasons, like with any show, but those are the big ones.

money be green?

money. be. green.

you got george pelecanos on your writing staff and you let MONEY BE GREEN make the cut.

then there's the east vs west side basketball game when prop joe put in his ringer. stringer tawmbout

yo, get that midget outta here, B.

B ain't baltimore, that's new york.

and you got prez watching college football and his wife asks him who is winning. prez says

No one wins, one side just loses more slowly.

the hell is that?

and there are times when stringer puts the wrong emphasis on the wrong syllable.

or mcnulty lets the british accent slip out.

I guess with a show that good you gotta dig deep to find something to complain about.


>money be green?
>
>money. be. green.
>
>you got george pelecanos on your writing staff and you let
>MONEY BE GREEN make the cut.
>
>then there's the east vs west side basketball game when prop
>joe put in his ringer. stringer tawmbout
>
>yo, get that midget outta here, B.
>
>B ain't baltimore, that's new york.
>
>and you got prez watching college football and his wife asks
>him who is winning. prez says
>
>No one wins, one side just loses more slowly.
>
>the hell is that?
>
>and there are times when stringer puts the wrong emphasis on
>the wrong syllable.
>
>or mcnulty lets the british accent slip out.
>
>

you really never heard someone who replaces 'is' with 'be'?
Cuz that's kinda standard hood speak or aave...

>you really never heard someone who replaces 'is' with 'be'?
>Cuz that's kinda standard hood speak or aave...


you know how screenwriters think we automatically use 'be' in every sentence.

Example: when Chris and Snoop were trying to get rid of all the NY dealers, and he asked the guy "you know who Young Leek be?"

NOBODY talks like that.


But in the case of 'money be green', I took it as "Money is usually green!!!" In that instance, the 'be' is ok with me.

The "be" construction is for things that consistently or frequently occur again and again. It's not used for a fundamental characteristic. Money be green is like saying "I be 6'1"". If you said something like that in real life in any Hood, people would look at you funny for a split second, even if they got your basic point, because it's not lexical at all.

"He be 6'1"" doesn't work
But "A ball be round" does.
Especially when the speaker is correcting someone.

In the example i gave, it should be on 'ball' or 'round.'

not money be green or even money is green

well not in that exchange

...or is that reference dated?


>you really never heard someone who replaces 'is' with 'be'?
>Cuz that's kinda standard hood speak or aave...


Everybody's got a lil light unda the sun....

yeah, that's DC, not Baltimore.

"DANIELS!"

Dexter isn't that good.

but with each subsequent viewing of the show afterward it started becoming more obvious.

superiors especially the black ones, had no problem throwing his fellow officers under the bus or screwing them over to serve his own selfish crusades. He basically got Body killed. Yet they tried to paint him as the hero.

to me it just seemed like he hated the bosses in general. and I don't think they tried to paint him as a hero at all.

And weren't all his superiors black throughout the show ? Kinda hard to hate a white superior if you don't have one.

But either way yea - I think he just had a problem with authority in general.

and Rawls hated him for being disrespectful to his superiors.

that kinda proves the counterpoint anyway. Because he arguably may have undermined Rawls more than anyone.

He hated Rawls lol. That whole thing with the tides in the water for the dead body was hilarious.

>He hated Rawls lol. That whole thing with the tides in the
>water for the dead body was hilarious.

Friggen passive aggressive (more aggressive I suppose) faxes to the station. Hilarious stuff.

and Rawls was so pissed. Lol.

Such a great scene/episode.

sure Ed Burns was projecting a lot of feelings he had towards his bosses and things he wished he could've said or done in real life because in real life McNulty wouldn't have been on a boat he would've been ran off the force or in jail or found in an alley with a bullet in his head.

He just hated that Daniels was a company man.


Like when he went in his office and laid down all the evidence that they had against Barksdale, but Daniels still wouldn't budge.


That scene showed that McNulty was calling Daniels to the carpet, because they both knew the department was wrong.

>He just hated that Daniels was a company man.
>
>
>Like when he went in his office and laid down all the evidence
>that they had against Barksdale, but Daniels still wouldn't
>budge.
>
>
>That scene showed that McNulty was calling Daniels to the
>carpet, because they both knew the department was wrong.

The times that Daniels stuck his neck out for McNulty (and more importantly, did the right thing, department be damned), McNulty was super appreciative and made it clear he respected it. Daniels' race had nothing to do with McNulty's ire. It was the position he was in and some of the decisions he made due to that position.

questioned, scrutinized and tested than their white counterparts whether we're talking about a police dept, in government, business, sports, etc...


>>He just hated that Daniels was a company man.
>>
>>
>>Like when he went in his office and laid down all the
>evidence
>>that they had against Barksdale, but Daniels still wouldn't
>>budge.
>>
>>
>>That scene showed that McNulty was calling Daniels to the
>>carpet, because they both knew the department was wrong.
>
>The times that Daniels stuck his neck out for McNulty (and
>more importantly, did the right thing, department be damned),
>McNulty was super appreciative and made it clear he respected
>it. Daniels' race had nothing to do with McNulty's ire. It was
>the position he was in and some of the decisions he made due
>to that position.

But this is a TV show, and I'm speaking exclusively about the specific scenario between Daniels and McNulty on that TV show. Not making any kind of commentary about the real life big picture.

>But this is a TV show, and I'm speaking exclusively about the
>specific scenario between Daniels and McNulty on that TV show.
>Not making any kind of commentary about the real life big
>picture.

It's a TV show but one of the writers was a real police officer and a lot of the show is based on his opinions and experiences.

McNulty was an equal opportunity asshole IMO. He was just as bad (maybe worse) to Rawls as he was to Daniels. Point being I think the OP's statement about his being worse to his black superiors than white ones is false.

Re: your "hero" bullshit. People around here have a tough time having a normal, cordial conversation eh.

we're going on a raid and McNulty flat out said "I ain't going!", No way that scene plays out like that IRL lol

but you're right. IRL he's on suspension for disobeying an order.

"Point taken" - McNulty

Rawls and them couldn't stand McNulty because he was an insubordinate dickhead who always thought he was the smartest guy in the room. Daniels happened to be his commanding officer. There's nothing about McNulty's character that would indicate he'd have shown Daniels any more respect if he was white.

>There's nothing about McNulty's character that would
>indicate he'd have shown Daniels any more respect if he was
>white.

"Omar be dead."

"He Police"

As a Baltimorean, I can say that even the hoodest of hood dudes don't talk like that. Simon and Pelecanos missed the mark there.

as in Narcotics officer?

that ride in 'knocker cars' which are unmarked cars obtained by the PD to drive around and do their dir...I mean 'protect n serve' that the youth in Bmore learn to identify by the age of 8

no nickname for em. just dudes in dad jeans and ugly gymshoes, and backwards caps.


they don't look like cops at ALL </sarcasm>

Vans or cars or something to do with drop, it's been about four years removed for me. But drop is the operative word. You never forget the sight of a SUV stopping in the middle of the street abruptly with six dudes with guns scrambling out and running at folks. The first minute is like some Tarantino standoff and is terrifying by design. Shit seems reckless with bystanders around when you know the spot is armed.

At least dudes my age do. A bunch of dudes wearing hoodies and badges jumping out of unmarked Taurus' and running up on someone or a spot.

Never figured out if this was a Friday reference, or just some cornball idea some writer stuck in there. Marlo seemed like a psychopath that didn't like anything other than exerting his dominance over other dudes, yet he's up on the roof cuddling the little pigeon chicks to keep them warm.

I got sick of the near-misses with him getting caught...but not getting caught.

.

that was just too far out for me.

there's really nothing I didn't like about Breaking Bad.

Mike and Saul were the only people I liked. Everybody else was a loathesome person. Even Walt Jr.


( I could tolerate Gus, though.)

That show was the ultimate in living vicariously through the character, even more than Tony Soprano.

Walt held innately understandable and relatable motives from start to finish:

1. The desire to take care of his family after his demise
2. The desire to retain rightful credit for his brilliant work

Walt was routinely underestimated and someone others routinely exploited for their own gain. His partners bought him out for a pittance, capitalizing on his need for their gain and essentially being written out of their company history.

Moving onto Blue Sky, you had others trying to control what was essentially his IP, held him hostage, threatened him, and forced him into what amounted more or less to indentured servitude for, once again, a pittance compared to the true earnings potential of his recipe.

Walt was a prick to Pinkman to be sure, but for all the love Pinkman gets he was every bit the screw up Walt said he was. Further, so much of what he did to others was justified. It was kill or be killed time and again, up to and including Mike.

Not that he was perfect or anything; Brock was a breaking point. I lost it when he kidnapped his daughter but jumped back into the Heisenberg camp when I realized that he made that move to protect both her and Skyler.

Even after completing his heel turn he remained the most virtuous and righteous character in the entire show outside Pinkman and his two children.

>That show was the ultimate in living vicariously through the
>character, even more than Tony Soprano.
>
>Walt held innately understandable and relatable motives from
>start to finish:
>
>1. The desire to take care of his family after his demise
>2. The desire to retain rightful credit for his brilliant
>work

Nah, I think by the time it all went to shit, he was just doing it for the rush. When he and Skyler were standing over that huge amount of money, he could've shut it down right then and there. But nope, he kept going AND that was when their personal relationship wen to shit.


>
>Walt was routinely underestimated and someone others routinely
>exploited for their own gain. His partners bought him out for
>a pittance, capitalizing on his need for their gain and
>essentially being written out of their company history.

absolutely. That was definitely part of his motivation.




>
>Moving onto Blue Sky, you had others trying to control what
>was essentially his IP, held him hostage, threatened him, and
>forced him into what amounted more or less to indentured
>servitude for, once again, a pittance compared to the true
>earnings potential of his recipe.
>
>Walt was a prick to Pinkman to be sure, but for all the love
>Pinkman gets he was every bit the screw up Walt said he was.
>Further, so much of what he did to others was justified. It
>was kill or be killed time and again, up to and including
>Mike.

Fair enough.

>
>Not that he was perfect or anything; Brock was a breaking
>point. I lost it when he kidnapped his daughter but jumped
>back into the Heisenberg camp when I realized that he made
>that move to protect both her and Skyler.

Yeah, that gets overlooked a lot.

>
>Even after completing his heel turn he remained the most
>virtuous and righteous character in the entire show outside
>Pinkman and his two children.

Nah, I think Mike and Saul ( ironically ) were the only decent people on the show. Mike was handling business. It never got personal with him. Same with Saul. Walt was doing a lot of morally ambiguous shit towards the end. Well, aside from the murders and drug trafficking, lol...

I don't think Mike being "all business, never personal" is sufficient to give him any moral standing whatsoever.

However, the more I think about it I think Mike and Walt are a wash at best on the morality tip as both men ultimately do their dirt out of love for their family.

SPOILER




If Mike's son doesn't get got back in Philly, I doubt Mike is anything more than a curmudgeonly parking attendant relative to everyone else in either show. His primary motive always boils down to his granddaughter.

He was always smart and careful, and then he just got sloppy as hell. It just didn't seem true to his character for him to be cool with Walt bringing him the bag, and to not be prepared for Walt to try to pull some shit on him. He didn't like Walt, didn't trust him at all, and wanted nothing to do with him.

Also, the way he magically just had to leave with no explanation and then was comfortable cuffing Walt to the radiator and leaving. Mike just was not that sloppy.

They slipped up a bit with him late in season 5A.

tired of all of it. That's why he just accepted his fate.


His last line was perfect.

>He was always smart and careful, and then he just got sloppy
>as hell.

I'm not sure it's realistic for someone to bat 1.000 forever though and despite Mike directly telling Walt that he thinks Walt is dangerous, I think it can be very easy for a man as capable as Mike to underestimate a guy like Walt at a subconscious level.

Further, he was caught up at the time and actively wanted by the police. Remember, he bailed on his granddaughter of all people because they cops came after him at the park.

>It just didn't seem true to his character for him to
>be cool with Walt bringing him the bag, and to not be prepared
>for Walt to try to pull some shit on him. He didn't like
>Walt, didn't trust him at all, and wanted nothing to do with
>him.
>
>Also, the way he magically just had to leave with no
>explanation and then was comfortable cuffing Walt to the
>radiator and leaving. Mike just was not that sloppy

>They slipped up a bit with him late in season 5A.

I just don't see it. Mike was in a rare position of vulnerability and it's just unrealistic to expect him to be so on point during a rare moment of disadvantage. Conversely, the situation highly favored Walt's skill at improvising from a position of disadvantage. I think Mike's end was an accurate reflection of the strength of both men.

I hated when they would take off a year before the next season. One time they came back on in the summer and it was a Christmas episode. Sht didn't make since.

And of course I will never like the open-end finale that happened.

Other than that, a GREAT show.

...sticking a telephoto lens out your passenger window.

Their stakeouts were always mad blatant.

Like, you really don't see those two fools bobbing up and down on the roof snapping pictures DIRECTLY IN YOUR LINE OF VISION?

Really?

"they've always been on us...we just gotta be careful." - Avon

prob on same level as a True Blood or Big Love, shows that started off promising and were a mess after a few seasons in.

Not that SOA is anywhere near The Sopranos/The Wire/BB level of television or anything.

That said, for a show racked with flaws, my biggest gripe by far is how they made Jax basically the greatest criminal mastermind of all time. Every plot seemed to tie up with Jax pulling a brilliant double cross.....which was then followed immediately by another double cross. Or a hidden, unexpected ally lying in wait to save the day.

Granted it's been a minute since I finished the show but I just remember one long, drawn out plan with a ridiculous number of moving parts after another going off without a hitch.

Hesinberg had his share of "WTF, is he a superhero now?" moments but the man was legitimately of genius level intellect and that intellect was practically a character unto itself that formed the foundation of the very premise of the show.

But Jax? One or two of those I could buy but it just seemed like everything he did was a multi-faceted "Oceans" type plan that always worked out just fine.

Second to that is all the highway shootouts with absolutely no consequences. Does this take place in the state of San Andreas? Was Rockstar Games a silent investor or something? I enjoy the suspension of disbelief, but at least *try* to create some plausibility here and there.

>Not that SOA is anywhere near The Sopranos/The Wire/BB level
>of television or anything.
>
>That said, for a show racked with flaws, my biggest gripe by
>far is how they made Jax basically the greatest criminal
>mastermind of all time. Every plot seemed to tie up with Jax
>pulling a brilliant double cross.....which was then followed
>immediately by another double cross. Or a hidden, unexpected
>ally lying in wait to save the day.

Dude. He NEVER kept his word on ANY deal they ever made.


>
>Granted it's been a minute since I finished the show but I
>just remember one long, drawn out plan with a ridiculous
>number of moving parts after another going off without a
>hitch.

It went off the rails in about S4.


>
>Hesinberg had his share of "WTF, is he a superhero now?"
>moments but the man was legitimately of genius level intellect
>and that intellect was practically a character unto itself
>that formed the foundation of the very premise of the show.

True. And after he got hooked on it, that makes sense on how he just kept seeing how far he could go.


>
>But Jax? One or two of those I could buy but it just seemed
>like everything he did was a multi-faceted "Oceans" type plan
>that always worked out just fine.

Right.

>
>Second to that is all the highway shootouts with absolutely no
>consequences. Does this take place in the state of San
>Andreas? Was Rockstar Games a silent investor or something? I
>enjoy the suspension of disbelief, but at least *try* to
>create some plausibility here and there.

MAD guns and shootouts. They always did a day in lockup, and went home.

Every person I know who raves about Sons but hasn't- and won't- watched a single ep of Sopranos or The Wire leaves me with a feeling of "well, that makes sense".

It's lesser show by every conceivable measure and it's baffling to me when people can't love it while also admitting the ridiculously flawed nature of it from head to toe.

My general stance on individual taste in all artistic mediums is each their own, live and let live, but for some reason Sons in particular always brought out the snob within. I'm like YO... you won't fuck with Battlestar Galactica (the reboot) because you presuppose it to be some shallow scifi nerdgasm despite being one of the more thoughtful and profound shows of it's time but you think this is fire without a single ounce of criticism?

>Every person I know who raves about Sons but hasn't- and
>won't- watched a single ep of Sopranos or The Wire leaves me
>with a feeling of "well, that makes sense".
>


I work with a few guys like that. They think it's some kind of hood cop show. I've explained to them a zillion times that ot's WAAY deeper than that. I've sent them links to articles that call it one of the best shows of all time. Nope. They still aren't buying in. I finally got ONE dude to watch it, and he came back telling me it was one of the greatest shows he's ever seen. The rest of 'em? fuck em. ( Personally, I think it's harder to get whitefolx to watch it. )


>It's lesser show by every conceivable measure and it's
>baffling to me when people can't love it while also admitting
>the ridiculously flawed nature of it from head to toe.


Say that shit again.


>
>My general stance on individual taste in all artistic mediums
>is each their own, live and let live, but for some reason Sons
>in particular always brought out the snob within. I'm like
>YO... you won't fuck with Battlestar Galactica (the reboot)
>because you presuppose it to be some shallow scifi nerdgasm
>despite being one of the more thoughtful and profound shows of
>it's time but you think this is fire without a single ounce of
>criticism?


I had to struggle through the last two season of "Sons". It just got ridiculous.

It becomes a surprisingly fun "who gives a fuck? more cowbell!" sort of ride.

Once I accepted it for the absurd soap opera it became I genuinely enjoyed it.

>I work with a few guys like that. They think it's some kind of
>hood cop show. I've explained to them a zillion times that
>ot's WAAY deeper than that. I've sent them links to articles
>that call it one of the best shows of all time. Nope. They
>still aren't buying in. I finally got ONE dude to watch it,
>and he came back telling me it was one of the greatest shows
>he's ever seen. The rest of 'em? fuck em. ( Personally, I
>think it's harder to get whitefolx to watch it. )

with it's constant 100 minute episodes with bro-hugs, and montages of Peg Bundy cover songs while, watching Jax kill 30 people then hugging his kids while working on his bike. how they could never let him lose a fight ever. dangling the story of his father no one cared about for 6 seasons, and letting him go out like Jesus

My favorite were the GTA side missions that would never have anything to do with the main story, where the guys would go off and and mix it up with some peckerwoods to get medicine for Happy's grandma, or save some working girls from their abusive pimp. Because Sutter wanted to show us these guys may do bad things but contrast them with people who were really bad. it's complex!

i could go on forever on that pile of shit show. i loved it.

> Because Sutter wanted to show us these guys may
>do bad things but contrast them with people who were really
>bad. it's complex!
>

FOH, SOA.


>i could go on forever on that pile of shit show. i loved it.
>

by the last season, he wasn't even trying

best part of the later seasons was coming to OKP to read the reviews.

But they all worked in what they were trying to do:

The Sopranos got you to empathize with some of the biggest scumbags on the plant.

The Wire tried to get you to see their is a different version of the "official" story.

Dexter wanted to get your dick hard while people were murdered.


Dexter isn't remotely in the same league as the other 2.

I am above that - but I also can not not post.

There is literally 100% more hostility and agenda in your post than there was in mine.

have fun with that.

***
I ain't lyin. This shit i'm making up is true...

.

But the character itself was actually a stroke of storytelling brilliance:

Said thought he had a trump card to play but unwittingly gave governor Devlin a sorely needed win that perfectly showcased what a stone-cold political gangster he really was while both humbling and severely diminishing Said's credibility in one fell swoop.

Then they followed up two episodes later with Said upping the ante by refusing Devlin's pardon, which was one hell of a counterpunch.

and the finale? One of the worst I've ever seen.

Start to finish lmao.

I fully embrace absolutely everything about it. Even Jazz Hoyt seeing devils.

shitty ass shittty ass ending...

both of you need to stop defending that garbage lol

It's about to be over for you playboy!

>both of you need to stop defending that garbage lol

I'm not sure I've ever been so invested in a group of characters in my life.

I'm not one who views that last season as awful or anything, but when I view the show as a whole from start to finish I'm left with so much angst and frustration. I have wildly conflicting feelings on Lost. I'd be cool with that ending without the creatively generic climax to the whole island portion of events.

that's when it all went off the rails.


I saw it through till the end, and it's still one of my favorite shows, but yeah.

after that, they would introduce weird thing after weird thing and then never explain it.

all that shit with Walt that we NEVER found out about.


All that shit about why Aaron was supposed to be special.


What was Libby's deal?


I could go on.

Game of Thrones
Boardwalk Empire
Homeland


are all clearly better imo. overall I like Dexter, but there are better shows.

What a great show. Slow burn like Better Call Saul but insane writing and great acting.

Season 2 was amazing but the whole show impressed.

*Edit*

I just watched "Battle of The Bastards" again last night. Best ep of the series...

but yeah, botb is hard to argue against.

.

on the advice of just about everyone telling me to drop out after Season 4.

Season 4 is flames though

good show. no where near the level of the other two, or BB or a bunch of others

but anyway, I tried to go back and watch the Sopranos and I actually found it kind of hard because they were waaaay worst people than I remember. Not by a little but by a lot.

I don't think I noticed it because as you are watching it you are hoping that characters would eventually become better people. Especially, Tony. or his kids.

But when you see it to the end you realize that they will continue to be garbage people.

Hard to watch something for so long without the people changing (Still love the ending though).



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

>(Still love the ending though).

The fact that we're still curious about it / talking about it 10 years later is proof of its brilliance. Whether you loved it or hated it you felt something and still talk about it.

I loved how it resulted in conspiracy theories and investigations (there was, and probably still is, a website with like a 30,000 word, frame-by-frame investigation into why the guy thinks Tony was killed). And I just find that strategy to have been far more interesting than just your cookie-cutter, tie up all loose ends finale which no one ever cares about or remembers.

>>(Still love the ending though).
>
>The fact that we're still curious about it / talking about it
>10 years later is proof of its brilliance. Whether you loved
>it or hated it you felt something and still talk about it.
>
>I loved how it resulted in conspiracy theories and
>investigations (there was, and probably still is, a website
>with like a 30,000 word, frame-by-frame investigation into why
>the guy thinks Tony was killed). And I just find that strategy
>to have been far more interesting than just your
>cookie-cutter, tie up all loose ends finale which no one ever
>cares about or remembers.


Nobody told me what happened ( or didn't happen), but I was kind of waiting for something weird. It was a great ending though.

>but anyway, I tried to go back and watch the Sopranos and I
>actually found it kind of hard because they were waaaay worst
>people than I remember. Not by a little but by a lot.
>
>But when you see it to the end you realize that they will
>continue to be garbage people.
>

She was one of my least favorite characters, easily.

http://www.brightideasmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/carmela_wave.gif

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Now I'll have the same goddamn complex. I totally forgot about that. With the stupid ass look on her face too.

Christopher was pretty bad too. I couldn't stand AJ either. There were a lot of horrible people on that show.

I can't even imagine the horrible, insufferable shrew who must have served as the template for her.

Just because she brought nothing at all to the table. A lot of other characters (most of them, in fact) were atrocious human beings but brought humor (intentional or unintentional) or moments of humanity or SOMETHING. Janice never brought a single thing to the table. No value. Just an awful human.

>Christopher was pretty bad too.

He's one of those I reference above who had a few redeeming qualities/moments that made me not LOATHE him like, say, Janice. Haha.


>I couldn't stand AJ either.

Yea AJ was just the chubby harmless kid the first few seasons but once he hit puberty he was insufferable.


>There were a lot of horrible people on that show.

You mentioned Ralphie too, who as terrible as he was at least provided some of those comic relief moments I mentioned above. He was funny. It was the writing and what's his name's acting the part that made it. Dude was great in that role.
But yea as a person Ralphie was arguably the biggest piece of shit of all of them. Type of dude if he really existed no one would like him. He's only funny cause he's on TV. Know what I mean

but a fantastic character

I thought Janice was a great character too. as much as i hated her

>RE: Christopher was just... frustrating lol
>but a fantastic character
>
>I thought Janice was a great character too. as much as i hated
>her

Both great characters. I think both were made the way they were by design. Janice was supposed to be the insufferable, do-nothing, always-got-her-hands-out sister and Christopher was supposed to be the eternally frustrating but at times lovable heir-to-the-throne nephew. It's a credit to the writing that I feel the way I do about them. Haha.

decent person standing. I guess until co-signing the death of his woman.



>but a fantastic character
>
>I thought Janice was a great character too. as much as i hated
>her


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

More than any other character we get to witness how he was bred into this, how so much of who he is was due to (lack of) nurture than nature. He didn’t have much to work with upstairs but the yearning of his creative angst showed a side of what he could have been had he been born outside of this thing.
We also got to see an actual struggle with his addiction, where he’d fight and try to kick his habits only to be undermined in the midst of those efforts while essentially being spit on at the same time.

Tony’s struggles were generally rooted in trying to gain an upper hand over an adversary while Christopher battled real demons.

I think the most admirable trait of Christopher, at least in the context of the world in which these guys live, is that he was the one guy who seemed to make an effort to live out the code of what they do. He called out Tony several times when Tony would bend or break the rules of their thing and lived by that code even when faced with staggering personal loss.

So despite having few truly virtuous qualities Christopher still represented arguably the most completely human portrait of a mobster within that world. Where others, such as Johnny Sack, had a few moments that showcased their human vulnerability, Christopher seemed to showcase that vulnerability from start to finish. There were a couple of times in the series where he gives a glimmer of hope that he might turn a corner, but he never does. We got the vulnerability from Tony in certain respects but things seem to always go back to his selfishness and greed and he never comes across as a decent person in any respect that isn’t calculated to benefit him in some way.

Never figured out if this was a Friday reference, or just some cornball idea some writer stuck in there. Marlo seemed like a psychopath that didn't like anything other than exerting his dominance over other dudes, yet he's up on the roof cuddling the little pigeon chicks to keep them warm.

>Never figured out if this was a Friday reference, or just
>some cornball idea some writer stuck in there. Marlo seemed
>like a psychopath that didn't like anything other than
>exerting his dominance over other dudes, yet he's up on the
>roof cuddling the little pigeon chicks to keep them warm.
>

he was Patsy's kid but he wasn't Jackie Aprile status. he was a lawyer (or law student)

probably perfect for her because he wasn't int he game, but understood it. kind of like her.

and now making excuses for the mob "Theyre there to give italians justice that the other law doesnt" or something like that

so thats what she was going to do..continue law for representing those in the mob(?)..I forget

either way..its testament


>he was Patsy's kid but he wasn't Jackie Aprile status. he was
>a lawyer (or law student)
>
>probably perfect for her because he wasn't int he game, but
>understood it. kind of like her.

http://sopranos.wikia.com/wiki/Patrick_Parisi

Patrick Parisi is the son of Roberta Feliciano and Patsy Parisi, and the older brother of Jason Parisi. He is the nephew of Phillip Parisi. He is mentioned only in passing, but it is revealed that Patrick was Meadow Soprano's recurring "mystery date", and that the two have been dating since the premiere of Cleaver. Tony and Carmela both have reservations about Patrick for reasons that are not disclosed, to which Meadow responds that he has changed. It is implied that he is studying or practicing law. In the series finale, Meadow announces her engagement to Patrick. Tony suggests that he has a frat party for him and his friends at the Bada Bing and to invite AJ. When he hears news about AJ's separation with his girlfriend he is pleased saying, "I'm glad he switched back over to the other side." He is in the episodes: "The Second Coming" and "Made In America".

She was a bright student who constantly ranted and raved while standing on a soap box paid for with blood money. This is exemplified by her exchange with Fin, who actually- finally, thankfully- checks her on her “poverty of the mezzogiorno” nonsense.

Like nearly every character in the show, she’s hyper-defensive about the way her family and Italian heritage is perceived, particularly when confronted with the reality of their actions. Meadow brushes off Fin’s fear of Vito as though she has no clue what these guys are really about or how they make their money.

She refers to “certain methods of conflict resolution” when discussing how and why the mafia was formed, as though that has any real parallel to the violent, greedy criminal enterprise run by her father and his associates.

Earlier in the series she’s a kid, not entirely sure of the ramifications of what Tony does and, as a kid so far removed from such a reality probably would, feels uncomfortable with that reality.

Her “years of morality” were really nothing more than the ignorance of childhood, followed by willful ignorance of a young adult, followed by tacit acceptance and, ultimately, defense as a grown woman. As she grows up and gains more knowledge of both sides of that fence she likewise begins to rationalize everything that paints them in a negative light.

It’s a pretty realistic arc. Had she ever had any real moral fiber I’d agree with you here, but she never really does. While she has a definitive arc, the core of Meadow Soprano from start to finish is simply a spoiled, pretentious brat.

In terms of practicing law, she was passionate about defending the poor and persecuted. She was particularly defensive of Muslims who were being unfairly targeted. In terms of becoming a lawyer there wasn’t much of an indication that her motive was to defend mobsters and Patrick seemed to be on the straight and narrow by that point. He certainly wasn’t a threat when Meadow was accosted in the restaurant by one of the New York goons.

makes me wonder how she would have turned out, given that Tony is most likely dead, and she most likely witnessed it.

They really made government look un-effecient and bad, which I'm fine with.

But they made the crime side of it way too efficient and organized - until they aren't. Seems like a libertarian's wet dream.

The street operations went way too smoothly - and then when management got into issues it remained too much like a normal business.

Pop off to Prop Joe? Should be killed very quickly. Not here.

Omar should have been killed much earlier - he was slipping a lot more than going to the store in his robe.

Marlo was too good to be real - the co-op should have turned on him - and when appointed Cheese as a boss the rest of the co-op should have tossed them both out.



One other issue:
When Marlo kills Devoone it was so overly stylized to not fit in with the rest of the tone of the series.

One in each tit, then in the mouth without the head exploding or blood everywhere, just smoke?? I mean, no recoil? It was like someone wanted to make a "cool looking murder."

>But they made the crime side of it way too efficient and
>organized - until they aren't. Seems like a libertarian's wet
>dream.
>
>The street operations went way too smoothly - and then when
>management got into issues it remained too much like a normal
>business.
>

When they showed the dipshits within the Barksdale organization ( taking notes during the meetings, beating up dudes over small amounts of cash, running their mouths off the their girlfriends, etc) it showed how they weren't perfect.

Also, the whole dynamic between Stringer and Avon over the years brought it all to a head. Stringer had found a way to legitimize the whole thing, but Avon was happier being a street dude.

that's why this is still one of my favorite scenes of the whole series
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkVohPC_YpU

bruh.. that line is so tough.

That scene also had the line, "you too good for this street stuff, but not smart enough to run with those dudes" type of line right?


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

"You know the difference between me and you? I bleed red and you bleed green. I look at you these days, String, you know what I see? I see a man without a country. Not hard enough for this right here and maybe, just maybe, not smart enough for them out there."

it was what pushed String to tell Avon he did D'Angelo, on some "Somebody had to do it"

chris and snoop.

>chris and snoop.

he'd just walk by in his bathrobe by himself and drug dealers would drop their drugs out the window lol

>thinking about 3 of the Greatest shows to emerge over the
>past 20 years
>and what was it about them that you didn't like?
>
>if anything


Almost everything for both The Wire and Sopranos. It would be easier to list the small amount of good things.

>Almost everything for both The Wire and Sopranos. It would be
>easier to list the small amount of good things.

The dockworkers they are just stealing and selling drugs because the work is gone. Rawls has soft spot for McNulty when Kimah is shot, but Bird, Chris, Marlo...etc cold blooded killers.

What's the background on Namonds mother ? How did Bird, Marlo and Chris turn into killers.

I know people here worship the show with the "Ooookkk" and "has to be one" comments but it's ok to question tv shows that you like.

seems like a strange opinion of anyone who watched the show(s).

>seems like a strange opinion of anyone who watched the
>show(s).


I don't think he did, actually. Some of his replies don't make sense.

>>seems like a strange opinion of anyone who watched the
>>show(s).
>
>
>I don't think he did, actually. Some of his replies don't make
>sense.
>
>

Be specific

>Be specific


The dockworkers they are just stealing and selling drugs because the work is gone.

How does that NOT make sense? Why do you think people set up businesses in economically challenged neighborhoods as fronts for drugs? Because they're buying and selling products that are guaranteed to make money when the legitimate businesses DON'T. The docks had dried up, so the workers had to make money any way they could.






Rawls has soft spot for McNulty when Kimah is shot, but Bird, Chris, Marlo...etc cold blooded killers.

The Rawls and McNulty thing had NOTHING to do with Bird, Chris and Marlo. Like I said Rawls never met those guys. As far as him having a soft spot for McNulty, that's definitely not true. He HATED McNulty. He even SAID it in that scene. That was about him not wanting McNulty to feel guilt or remose for Kima being shot. Because it wasn't his fault.

You wrote that like Rawls was nice to McNulty but mean to Bird, Christ, and Marlo ( who again, he had NO personal interaction with).


What's the background on Namonds mother ? How did Bird, Marlo and Chris turn into killers.

I answered that in the other post. Short answer? They're *literally* products of their environment. Kids who grow up in the criminal environment sometimes become criminals.


(I still hold the opinion that you've never really seen the show.)

>
>>Be specific
>
>
>The dockworkers they are just stealing and selling drugs
>because the work is gone.
>
>How does that NOT make sense? Why do you think people set up
>businesses in economically challenged neighborhoods as fronts
>for drugs? Because they're buying and selling products that
>are guaranteed to make money when the legitimate businesses
>DON'T. The docks had dried up, so the workers had to make
>money any way they could.
>
>

Didn't say that because I believe it doesn't make sense, I said that because they made the white characters more sympathetic vs the Black characters I mentioned. They were stealing before the dock dried up even if they didn't sell drugs.

>
>

>
> Rawls has soft spot for McNulty when Kimah is shot, but Bird,
>Chris, Marlo...etc cold blooded killers.

Same as above I used that example to show how even someone like Rawls was given more than one dimension unlike the Black characters I named were not.

>The Rawls and McNulty thing had NOTHING to do with Bird, Chris
>and Marlo. Like I said Rawls never met those guys. As far as
>him having a soft spot for McNulty, that's definitely not
>true. He HATED McNulty. He even SAID it in that scene. That
>was about him not wanting McNulty to feel guilt or remose for
>Kima being shot. Because it wasn't his fault.

Yeah and it doesn't fit, he hated McNulty but he was worried about his guilt. I already explained the never met stuff up above.

>You wrote that like Rawls was nice to McNulty but mean to
>Bird, Christ, and Marlo ( who again, he had NO personal
>interaction with).
>

No I wrote about how the Rawls character was presented to the audience and how Bird, Chris and Marlo was presented.

> What's the background on Namonds mother ? How did Bird, Marlo
>and Chris turn into killers.
>
>I answered that in the other post. Short answer? They're
>*literally* products of their environment. Kids who grow up in
>the criminal environment sometimes become criminals.
>

This is the greatest show of all time and the reason these recurring characters are killing so many people is the criminal environment that causes kids to become criminals. That doesn't sound like lazy writing to you ? We are not talking about extras, I can understand using that when Bunny wanted to show the Professor something but this is the standard for a character like Marlo ?

>(I still hold the opinion that you've never really seen the
>show.)

The show was not hard to see, let go of that. If I didn't watch it it I would say that. I didn't watch any of Dexter.

>RE: i'm not above questioning, but to say you didn't like almost everything
>seems like a strange opinion of anyone who watched the
>show(s).

Just say "I don't like TV"

>seems like a strange opinion of anyone who watched the
>show(s).

It's people on the site who watch the who series more than once.

I mean come on.

http://i.imgur.com/yutRrqm.gif

People did something they enjoyed, then did it again. Worship!

>It's people on the site who watch the who series more than
>once.

or better yet, what if you could BUY a show you liked, just so you could watch it multiple times!!!!


Nah, I'm a dreamer.

I bet this nigga goes off the rails when a DJ plays that beat back.


I WANT MY MONEY BACK

is one thing but the whole series, 5 seasons more than 4 times.

Nothing to see here over and over and over.

These people calling this show the greatest show on tv are not watching one episode.

different strokes, man.

I just disagree with people from time to time.

I have a little over a thousand post and I signed up in 2011, you have 31,000 and you are a charter member. You really want to say I like arguing on the internet as much as people on this site like the wire, when you can say,people like the wire as much as you love Okayplayer boards.

Likely more than i have out of 30,000

okayplayer is your bubble not mine.

on one site.

for some reason you think posting = bickering about shit. I guess because that's your thing here. I've spent a very miniscule % of my time on okp on pointless back and forths like this one.

>for some reason you think posting = bickering about shit. I
>guess because that's your thing here. I've spent a very
>miniscule % of my time on okp on pointless back and forths
>like this one.

LOL your time on a message board was more productive because you didn't argue.

You could be the yes man and lap dog for everyone on the site 31,000 is still too much. Take a break.

Let go

watch Season 1-5 of the Wire again.

live without The Wire

>The dockworkers they are just stealing and selling drugs
>because the work is gone. Rawls has soft spot for McNulty when
>Kimah is shot, but Bird, Chris, Marlo...etc cold blooded
>killers.
>

What does one have to do with the other? Rawls never met Bird chris and Marlo. Maybe it's your wording, but there's no relationship there.


> What's the background on Namonds mother ?

She was Wee-Bey's common law wife. What backstory? There's people in that situation every day?

How did Bird,
>Marlo and Chris turn into killers. They're from the corner boy culture. Did you ever see the show? Seriously. What don't you understand? Chris and Bird were muscle, they'd been locked up before. They've been in the criminal justice system for part of their lives.. Their bosses had a lot of money, and needed trigger men. Who better than a criminal?


>
>I know people here worship the show with the "Ooookkk" and
>"has to be one" comments but it's ok to question tv shows that
>you like.

It's not about worshipping the show. "The Wire" has been widely recognized as one of the greatest TV shows of all time. This isn't a cult classic we're talking about.

You implied that there wasn't much quality on the show, and you're clearly wrong there.

NO ONE EXPLAINED THAT!!

The questions.

If only he'd focus his power.

White characters vs Black characters.

I really have to write out everything and connect the dots.

what the fuck are you asking tho?

Why is a white police officer acting different than kids from the street who grew up around violence?

I mean.. break it down because you are asking why characters aren't the same which would seem obvious.

and the way they are portrayed. The writing, the background. If this the typical cops drugs and criminal show I expect the weak writing, but when people say it's the greatest show of all time they gotta more right ?

http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2008/02/26/sociologists-critique-the-wire/


Yet, for me, the piece that’s missing both from The Wire and from Cook’s analysis is the complicity, and sometimes quite overt racism, of whites (and a handful of elite blacks, like the character of Senator Clive Davis) who have created and benefit from the policies that have decimated urban centers. For example, while there are passing references to state-level politics and even a passing reference to an ill-willed (supposedly white) Republican governor, there’s never any exploration of the connection between the racism inherent in much of the “war on drugs” and the kind of devastation of inner-city Baltimore. Where is the white counterpart to the Senator Clive Davis character? Where, for instance, is the Grover Norquist or the Karl Rove or even, the Nelson Rockefeller? Within the context of The Wire, the “war on drugs” simply exists a priori and the show explores the consequences of such a policy on many of the residents of Baltimore. That said, it’s a mighty fine exploration and certainly worth watching.

I never understood the racism think pieces about The Wire. No shit. It's an urban city in the NE. Of course there is going to be racism and heavy handed writing when it comes to Black characters. However, I think it also showed how shitty white police, politicians were in Baltimore.

I don't think anyone looked good on that show and that was the point.

>I never understood the racism think pieces about The Wire. No
>shit. It's an urban city in the NE. Of course there is going
>to be racism and heavy handed writing when it comes to Black
>characters. However, I think it also showed how shitty white
>police, politicians were in Baltimore.

It's called the greatest show that was on TV. I expect Hill Street Blues and the movie Colors to use the cookie cutter, business as usual stereotypes,lazy writing...etc. but when the cult calls it realistic and accurate, those who were in charge of the show back then should've put in the effort.

>I don't think anyone looked good on that show and that was the
>point.
>
>

Nah some look worse, they didn't even skim the surface of how shitty white police and politicians are in any police department or urban city.

Here is a think piece without the racism from someone who loves the show.

http://www.complex.com/pop-culture/2014/11/every-flaw-on-hbos-the-wire/mcnultys-bleeding-heart

>White characters vs Black characters.
>
>I really have to write out everything and connect the dots.


Yes. Because I'm not even seeing the dots.

just so he can watch the shit.

this nigga came in late, loud and wrong.

>this nigga came in late, loud and wrong.
>
>



I've NEVER heard anybody say The Wire was a bad or poorly written show.


like, EVER.

but yeah.

the people who worship this show only watched it twice ?

to doubt or believe someone watched a show they worship more than 2 times.

>>this nigga came in late, loud and wrong.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>I've NEVER heard anybody say The Wire was a bad or poorly
>written show.
>
>
>like, EVER.
>
>

It's a message board, let go of the performing and always on thing.

If you never heard it nobody else can say it.

>this nigga came in late, loud and wrong.
>
>

to people who are simple

Will the world still exist ?

It's required viewing. Check it out from S1 the next time we have a three day weekend.

>It's required viewing. Check it out from S1 the next time we
>have a three day weekend.
>
>
>

Here is a few people who love the show but they can talk about it without blinders.

http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2008/02/26/sociologists-critique-the-wire/


http://www.complex.com/pop-culture/2014/11/every-flaw-on-hbos-the-wire/

>>The dockworkers they are just stealing and selling drugs
>>because the work is gone. Rawls has soft spot for McNulty
>when
>>Kimah is shot, but Bird, Chris, Marlo...etc cold blooded
>>killers.
>>
>
>What does one have to do with the other? Rawls never met Bird
>chris and Marlo. Maybe it's your wording, but there's no
>relationship there.


Character development, background, motives. Did you know as little about Frank Sobotka and his motives as the people I mentioned ?

>
>> What's the background on Namonds mother ?
>
>She was Wee-Bey's common law wife. What backstory? There's
>people in that situation every day?
>

Everyday people are extras in what is suppose to be the greatest show of all time you don't have one dimensional recurring characters if you are Simon the greatest of all time.

> How did Bird,
>>Marlo and Chris turn into killers. They're from the corner
>boy culture. Did you ever see the show? Seriously. What don't
>you understand? Chris and Bird were muscle, they'd been locked
>up before. They've been in the criminal justice system for
>part of their lives.. Their bosses had a lot of money, and
>needed trigger men. Who better than a criminal?
>

They doesn't match the credit this thread and the people in it are giving the show if that's all it is to the character. I know it's not ok to disagree with anything about the Wire, but the show will not crumble if someone is critical.

>>
>>I know people here worship the show with the "Ooookkk" and
>>"has to be one" comments but it's ok to question tv shows
>that
>>you like.
>
>It's not about worshipping the show. "The Wire" has been
>widely recognized as one of the greatest TV shows of all time.
>This isn't a cult classic we're talking about.
>

It's worshiping. You know people exist who like the GOAT show but still offer criticism.

>You implied that there wasn't much quality on the show, and
>you're clearly wrong there.
>

No you made that assumption, I answered the OP's question.

>>You implied that there wasn't much quality on the show, and
>>you're clearly wrong there.
>>
>
>No you made that assumption, I answered the OP's question.
>


a direct quote:

"Almost everything for both The Wire and Sopranos. It would be easier to list the small amount of good things."


Would you NOT agree that that's a way of saying you thought the show was of poor quality? Nobody says that about something they like.
'small amount of good things' = 'everything else was bad, or inferior' no?
We didn't 'assume' anything.

>
>>>You implied that there wasn't much quality on the show, and
>>>you're clearly wrong there.
>>>
>>
>>No you made that assumption, I answered the OP's question.
>>
>
>
>a direct quote:
>
>"Almost everything for both The Wire and Sopranos. It would be
>easier to list the small amount of good things."
>

The OP question I answered

"things you didn't like about THe Wire,Sorpranos and Dexter??"



thinking about 3 of the Greatest shows to emerge over the past 20 years
and what was it about them that you didn't like?

if anything"

>Would you NOT agree that that's a way of saying you thought
>the show was of poor quality? Nobody says that about something
>they like.
>'small amount of good things' = 'everything else was bad, or
>inferior' no?
> We didn't 'assume' anything.

No I am saying it's more things I didn't like then it is that I did. The quality of the show as a whole involves more than that.

the serial killer shit was forced. seems to me they rushed that season.

Kenard killing Omar? Honestly, I could see something like that happening, but the way it happened in the series ...

Also, never realized until now that Kenard was the little kid in season 3 pretending to be Omar w/ the stick.

>Also, never realized until now that Kenard was the little kid
>in season 3 pretending to be Omar w/ the stick.


^^^THIS answers the "how did Chris, Bird, and Marlo become killers?" question.


They grew up seeing gangsters on the streets, and idolized them.

the fuck kinda question is dude really asking?

good catch on the kenard thing.

in the Barksdale organization.


he was a dumbass to be sure, but he wasn't cutthroat. He tried to look out for Wallace, and he definitely avoided violence when it wasn't necessary. ( Which is ironic, since we met him when he was on trial for Murder)


Look at all the times he let the Pit Crew slide on shit that could've gotten them killed by anybody else.

Instead of recognizing this, he continued down the path of trying to be a thug, but cried and complained the whole way.

He's not in the same class as the other two, but he was quite annoying to me. Like, why not talk to your mom & uncle, tell them you ain't about that life and go to college or something?

>He's not in the same class as the other two, but he was quite
>annoying to me. Like, why not talk to your mom & uncle, tell
>them you ain't about that life and go to college or
>something?


Short answer? It was the family business. He had no choice.