My sister in law and her 17 year old daughter have been staying with me since Saturday because the daughter has auditions at a couple NYC colleges

From pretty much the first day, i'm witness to a highly disturbing and painful dynamic between the two of them: She is controlling, critical, mean and downright verbally and emotionally abusive to her daughter. She criticizes her constantly, discounts any opinion she has, calls her disrespectful, yells at her for the smallest infraction...absolutely nothing the daughter does is right and she openly complains about and criticizes the daughter to other people, in front of the daughter, which i'm sure is humiliating.

this girl is a superstar..damn near a straight A student, music prodigy, operatic soprano, well liked, humble, funny, beautiful, bubbly, kind, compassionate...but around her mother, she literally shrinks...you can see her trying to be as small and invisible as possible to not incur her mother's verbal wrath...she never speaks at all unless her mom asks her something...then her voice is small and quiet, which she then gets screamed at for not speaking up.

it's heartbreaking to watch and live around (especially since her brother, my ex husband, treated me the same way...)...i feel like I'M on eggshells cuz i keep trying to find clever ways to deflect and be a buffer...when we took the daughter out to the theater, i sat between them so she could enjoy the show...when she left her purse in the back of the Uber, i grabbed it and quickly handed it her while her mom was on the phone, whispering that she'd left it behind, knowing she'd be berated loudly if her mom knew she'd done that.

it's only Wednesday and i'm exhausted..they are with me until Sunday and I really want to find some way to talk to her mom about this...when i joked around once and mentioned it to her, she says its for the daughter's own good...that the world out there is harsh and she's just helping prepare her for that.."people aren't going to be nice" etc etc


that's an excuse. she doesn't realize the damage she is doing. I really want to find some way of talking with her about it but i'm worried that that will be the end of our still kinda new friendship...but at the same time, i'm 100% positive that no one else in her life would bring it to her attention...

I did have a brief convo with the daughter when her mom went to the store..i told her that i see and hear what's going on and that it must be hard for her...she immediately began to cry and nod..i talked with her a little about not internalizing the things her mom says..to avoid negative self talk and to be kind to herself..that her mom thinks she is helping her and making her stronger...i hugged her and told her I'm here for her and that I'd try to talk to her mom about it, if i can...


i mean there's a non-confrontational way to say anything, right? *nervous laughter*

d

I wouldn't touch that one....tell your hubby to talk to her.

he and I are broken up and she basically took my side LOL

d

I guess it boils down to whats more important to you. PReserving the relationship with her or saving your niece?

I think you been doing a good job of that so far but that sounds like a tough convo that she may not be wanting to have with you.

there being issues. Hopefully, the young lady gets into the school she wants and can get away from her mom so that she can live. And maybe then, you could have a different type of influence on the young lady.

"Get ready....for your blessing....."

Is how I see that dialogue playing out...

From experience, there is a certain type of person
that it doesn't pay to try to reason with when it comes
to their children and how they raise/influence/interact with them.

Not to be pessimistic, but you'll probably cause more of a strain.

17 and auditioning for NY Art Colleges? I think there might be a smidget of truth that the Mom kinda sorta new what she was doing.

If she were younger I think an intervention would make sense. At this age the biggest thing I would be concerned with is breaking free from her move when she goes to college and going BUCK WILD.

My valedictorian only lasted a semester because of her sheltered upbringing.

All that to say is that confrontation with the mom might not be worth it. She will poin to the girls success to argue that she knew what she was doing.

I think what could be productive is forming an independent path of communication between you and the daughter. Build her up directly. Make sure she knows she has you to turn to when she doesn't want to or is afraid to go to her mom.

When she goes to school check on her regularly.

That one relationship between you and her can make the difference.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

>At this age the biggest thing I would be concerned with is
>breaking free from her move when she goes to college and going
>BUCK WILD.
>
>My valedictorian only lasted a semester because of her
>sheltered upbringing.


The sheltered girls that were straight "nerds" starting high school were on some super wild (I mean SUPER wild) shit by senior year of HS or freshman year of college.

Moms is a lost cause because any way you cut it your critiquing 17 years of what she thinks of is excellent child raising (Look at what she's accomplished!).

By you sneaking the purse back she knows the deal; id just serve as a counterpoint to the moms and be supportive in whatever she does. Tell her you're there if you need her, in the small time be supportive as you can.

When she gets to be in her mid 20's, gets her own life, and disappears for years at a time, thats when they will have their reckoning, lol.

Now it's not worth it, and there's a good chance you might make it worse for the 17 year old.

(just added this to the post above)

I did have a brief convo with the daughter when her mom went to the store..i told her that i see and hear what's going on and that it must be hard for her...she immediately began to cry and nod..i talked with her a little about not internalizing the things her mom says..to avoid negative self talk and to be kind to herself..that her mom thinks she is helping her and making her stronger...i hugged her and told her I'm here for her and that I'd try to talk to her mom about it, if i can...

It's almost always a problem to try & tell someone anything about their relationship with their own child.

Maybe tell your niece that you know her Mom is tough on her but you're available for her if she ever needs a break or just someone to talk to.

..hold tight till sunday

and keep my mouth shut to the mom...lost cause there.

thank you all soooooooo much, truly. I feel lighter already...this has been causing me so much stress

It's highly likely the daughter will be in school up here so i'll definitely keep an eye on her and be there for her, if she wants that. she is SUCH an amazing person already

d

you dont have a close relationship with the daughter or mother
all you can do is build her up when the mother isnt tearing her down

I want to hope the daughter is big enough to stand up for herself one day

Won't go into the details of my situation but I think you're already doing the best you can do. Spend a little extra time you have with the child to re-affirm her worth and self-esteem that does not directly contradict or target her mother. Anything more than that could back-fire and you will be shut-off from the kid. So just get-in where you fit-in and do your best to make a smaller contribution in bigging her up as much as possible.

The only way you could go a bit further....but there's a risk....is to use some subtlety and go out of your way to praise the child in the mother's presence. 'Damn you're daughter is such a fine young lady and so well-balanced. It's clear you guys have done such a good job raising her'. That COULD work to disarm the mother's criticism (albeit temporarily) during that particular encounter. It's effectiveness would depend on your ability to dole out nuanced back-handed compliments and also how the mother's particular personality might react to such tactics. Would she be smart enough to figure out what you're doing? If so...is she aggressive enough to call you out on it?

It kinda works for me with the young lady and mother that I experience this with. And when the successes and accomplishments of the young lady get tied to the mother's ability to child-rear....she kinda gets off the verbal criticism because it becomes associated with her not being a good mother. It involves a little phoniness and it makes me cringe to praise this mother that is clearly too verbally abusive....but it does kinda change the dynamic for the rest of my visit. And it's fun to big-up the daughter in a way which the mother can only contradict if she wants to criticize her own parenting. So if you think you can get away with manipulating the conversation to push in that direction....it might be worth a try.

Alot of kids who grew up under abuse look back on a particular uncle or aunt or mentor or teacher who made an effort to big them up and that sometimes sets the stage for a very close relationship in the future (ie My aunt was always there for me when Mom went off the deep end). So even though it might FEEL like you should be doing more...take comfort in that what you're doing is already of benefit and very important.

right before she is about to leave

can you imagine how torturous that 10 hour car ride would be for the girl?

d

i got nothing... someone suggested Fences but I could see her snapping on her daughter when she sees the son buck up on his Father.

At least she may be quiet for 2.5 hours

...and envious that he daughter has a real chance to live out hers. Or something similar (the issue is with the mom, basically).


For the daughter, I'd just try to help her get away and stay away so she can go and grow up and live her life.

For the mom, I guess a conversation about exactly what SHE wants from HER life. I would not approach the situation directly, as that doesn't work well IME.

What's the mom got going on for herself?

begin by sharing your experience...

me, I go off when I see it. protecting the weak has gotten me in many fights...

..let denzel & viola (via wilson) speak for you.

outside of that, you're walking a fine line btwn concern vs encroachment.

you're heart is truly appreciated, though.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

>you're heart is truly appreciated, though.
>

aw, thanks :)

d

Throw in some comments about how you heard there are so many reflections of our black families in the film

if you can smoothly do it in a respectful way, let her know that she could be hurting her daughter. one thing I would definitely do is remind the daughter again that you are there for you if she needs you. I feel for her, that sucks.

As to how people should behave, treat people, etc. under your roof. Granted, how your sis in-law interacts with her daughter is her business, but your sis in-law does not have the right to mistreat anyone nor violate whatever house rules you set forth.

I have rulet I will enforce, whether I am related to the person or not, if necessary. When or if your niece decides to attend school out your way, then you will have more freedom to create a safe space for her. Your niece sounds like a promising young lady where the sky is the limit, but she will need a lot of emotional support from you or whoever cares about her or else she will do down a dark path which will haunt her for a good portion of her life.

Whether approach you take on the matter, I wish you luck!

you know you can't tell people how to raise/treat their children; that is DANGEROUS GROUND

As uncomfortable as this may sound, consider that to a certain extent this MAY be a 'semi-acceptable' dynamic btw the two of them.

I'm a step-parent. I have been in the kids' lives since the boys were like, 12. They're 24 now, and I have just RECENTLY come to the understanding that there was already a pre-existing dynmaic btw the mrs. and the kids. I have heard some VERY harsh things come out her mouth toward them, but like you I had to talk to them on my own.

You did your thing, they won't be with you permanently an ol' girl can go'on on with that bull$hit...but thass on them

you did your thing. pray - if you do that kinda thing - and let it go.