I got some random thoughts and that debate post is too lit.

Saying HRC don't come to the set
Don't be knocking on no doors
Don't even send her ppl to do it
So, even tho she trots out The Obamas, ninjas in the hood know better.


And then a few segments after that, they was saying Iowa and Ohio are leaning Trump.

.

Ohio has gone to the winner every election since 1960.
According to NY Times, she hasn't campaigned there in over a month and her people are spinning it as if it's not an important state.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/09/30/us/politics/ohio-campaign-trump-clinton.html

Ohio, Long a Bellwether, Is Fading on the Electoral Map

ATHENS, Ohio — After decades as one of America’s most reliable political bellwethers, an inevitable presidential battleground that closely mirrored the mood and makeup of the country, Ohio is suddenly fading in importance this year.

Hillary Clinton has not been to the state since Labor Day, and her aides said Thursday that she would not be back until next week, after a monthlong absence, effectively acknowledging how difficult they think it will be to defeat Donald J. Trump here. Ohio has not fallen into step with the demographic changes transforming the United States, growing older, whiter and less educated than the nation at large.

And the two parties have made strikingly different wagers about how to win the White House in this election: Mr. Trump, the Republican nominee, is relying on a demographic coalition that, while well tailored for Ohio even in the state’s Democratic strongholds, leaves him vulnerable in the more diverse parts of the country where Mrs. Clinton is spending most of her time.

It is a jarring change for political veterans here, who relish being at the center of the country’s presidential races: Because of newer battleground states, Mrs. Clinton can amass the 270 electoral votes required to win even if she loses Ohio.

“Their map is a little different, and Ohio is not as crucial as it once was,” conceded James Ruvolo, a former chairman of the Ohio Democratic Party who lives in the Toledo area, a Democratic bulwark that Mrs. Clinton has not visited once this year. “They’ll keep putting in money, but I don’t think they’re going to put a lot of her time in here.”

Ohio has long basked in the presidential spotlight. Every four years, fall would bring frequent candidate visits, ceaseless television commercials and breathless, county-by-county tallies of its voting returns late into election night. Democrats in the state became used to rock-concert-style rallies, like the ones John Kerry staged in Cleveland and Columbus with Bruce Springsteen in 2004 and President Obama held at Ohio State to kick off his 2012 re-election campaign. Mr. Obama held five events over three trips to Ohio in September 2012 alone.

And it was all for good reason: No candidate of either party has won the White House without carrying Ohio since John F. Kennedy in 1960.

But its Rust Belt profile, Mr. Trump’s unyielding anti-trade campaign and Mrs. Clinton’s difficulty energizing Ohio’s young voters have made it a lesser focus for Democrats this year, even as it remains critical to Mr. Trump’s path to the White House. As Mrs. Clinton’s aides privately note, the demographic makeup of Florida, Colorado and North Carolina, which have a greater percentage of educated or nonwhite voters, makes those states more promising for Democrats in a contest in which the electorate is sorted along bright racial and economic lines.

And with a once-competitive Senate race in Ohio turning into a rout for Rob Portman, the Republican incumbent, Democrats can quietly pull back from the state with little fear of down-ballot consequences.

As the place where Appalachia meets the Midwest, and where industrial centers arose not far from a vast farm belt, Ohio has prided itself on being a version of America writ small. Its immigration patterns reflected that, with New Englanders resettling here, followed by Germans and Eastern Europeans. At the same time, Southerners, white and black, crossed the Ohio River in search of freedom and opportunity.

But even some of the state’s proudest boosters acknowledge that Ohio, which is nearly 80 percent white, is decreasingly representative of contemporary America.

“Ohio, like a melting iceberg, has slowly been losing its status as the country’s bellwether,” said Michael F. Curtin, a Democratic state legislator and former Columbus Dispatch editor who is an author of the state’s authoritative “Ohio Politics Almanac.”

He continued: “It’s a slow melt. But we have not captured any appreciable Hispanic population, and there has been very little influx of an Asian population. When you look at the diversity of America 30 to 40 years ago, Ohio was a pretty close approximation of the country. It no longer is.”

What is less clear than the racial trends is whether the state will continue to grow more forbidding for Democrats in future presidential races.

That could be determined by the choices the national parties make after the election, particularly whether Republicans continue Mr. Trump’s project of shifting from a business-friendly to a more populist approach on immigration and trade.

“If the Republican Party looks more like the Trump coalition and the Democratic Party looks more like the Obama coalition, then the states Democrats must win will no longer be Ohio and Iowa,” said David Wilhelm, a manager of Bill Clinton’s first presidential campaign and a former Democratic national chairman who lives in suburban Columbus. “They will be Virginia, North Carolina, Arizona and Georgia.”

Yet that same Obama coalition was enough to hand the president a two-point victory in Ohio in 2012, when the state’s demographics were no less challenging for Democrats. The difference now, Ohio voters and strategists from both parties say, is in the two candidates and the issues at hand.

Facing Mitt Romney, who was easily caricatured as a country club Republican, Mr. Obama battered him as a handmaiden for the wealthy and criticized his opposition to the auto bailout, which lifted Mr. Obama with white union Democrats in car-making communities around Youngstown and Toledo.

But this year, Republicans have put forward a candidate whose views on trade are indistinguishable from, if not more hard-line than, the A.F.L.-C.I.O.’s.

“Republicans used to run on God and guns,” Mr. Ruvolo said. “Well, Trump added a third element: trade.”

Paired with Mr. Trump’s jeremiads about immigrants’ taking American jobs, it makes for a powerful combination in a state that has suffered from the decline of manufacturing. Though he lost the Ohio primary to Gov. John Kasich, Mr. Trump still carried a stretch of counties along the eastern spine of the state, its most economically depressed region, where thousands of industrial and coal-mining jobs have been lost. Mr. Trump is expected to pile up significant margins in those counties in November.

Some political veterans speak with wonder about private polls showing Mr. Trump leading even in bedrock Democratic communities. “I see, at best, lack of enthusiasm in traditional Democratic areas,” said Dennis E. Eckart, a former Democratic congressman from suburban Cleveland.

Mike Dawson, a Republican strategist who runs a website on Ohio’s political history, said Mr. Trump would be competitive in two counties in Youngstown’s Mahoning Valley that the Democratic presidential candidate has carried in every election for 60 years with the exception of 1972.

It is no coincidence that the same region kept re-electing Representative James A. Traficant Jr. from 1985 to 2002, despite his routine flouting of ethics. Mr. Traficant, a longtime Democrat who died in 2014, was known for mixing inflammatory rhetoric, a squirrel-like toupee and a hard-edge populism.

“There is not a dime’s worth of difference, as George Wallace once said, between Jim Traficant and Donald Trump,” said Mr. Eckart, whose district abutted Mr. Traficant’s. “They say anything, do anything, just act outrageous, and people just kind of like that.”

Mrs. Clinton remains strongest in the more affluent and educated areas around Ohio’s population centers — Cleveland, Columbus and Cincinnati — where some voters who backed Mr. Romney four years ago are appalled by Mr. Trump.

Emily Huber, a 29-year-old evangelical Christian and loyal Republican in Columbus, is one of them. As she sold candles and jewelry made by victims of sex trafficking at a farmer’s market in the shadow of the state capitol, Ms. Huber said she and her husband were unsure whether they could back Mr. Trump because of offensive comments that she said “show his true character.”

What will determine who wins Ohio, said Representative Steve Stivers, a Republican, is if “Hillary can pick up a bunch of voters in the suburbs to offset the rural and some of the industrial areas.”

Mrs. Clinton has an organizational advantage, with 60 offices across the state, and is flooding Ohio with surrogates: Bill Clinton is expected in the state on a bus tour next week. But her campaign is sensitive about her absence, which has become a local topic of discussion. After this article was published online, it hurried to announce that she would return on Monday, but without specifying which city she would visit.

A Clinton victory in Ohio may also require rousing younger voters, which is in doubt. When a group of Democratic Ohio mayors campaigned recently for Mrs. Clinton in Athens — home of Ohio University and seat of the county with the state’s largest percentage of millennials — they drew little interest.

As students stopped at sidewalk A.T.M.s to prepare for parents weekend, they expressed only lukewarm support for Mrs. Clinton. Paula Atfield, a freshman from Cleveland, said she was voting for Mrs. Clinton because “she’s not Trump,” but added that the election was seen as “a joke” on campus.

“Neither of them are suitable,” she said. “Most people aren’t even voting.”

At a news conference earlier in the day, the Dayton mayor, Nan Whaley, had declared that the state would send Mrs. Clinton to the White House. “Ohio is the decider of presidents,” she said.

But now, Ms. Whaley sounded less bullish. “I think it’s crucial,” she said of a Clinton victory in Ohio, before quickly adding of Mr. Trump, “It’s just not as crucial as his.”

I guess she is banking on NC, VA, FLA for her path

Them riots on charlotte gave trump NC

Them riots on charlotte gave trump NC

Them riots on charlotte gave trump NC

Right now, Clinton is looking at Virginia, Michigan, Penn, and Florida as her fire wall...They r putting pressure on those states and taking the focus off Ohio (according to reports...)

HRC's back up by 6 in Pusha T's home turf, back up by 7 in Michigan, back up by 4 in Florida, and back up by 5 in Penn....

The polls are slowly swinging back her way.....So says the Gawd Nate Dogg...Since the debate, HRC's odds have bumped back up to nearly 70 percent (66.3 percent)...Trump is sinking at 33.6 percent (FiveThirtyEight)

Nate Sliver: "Starting to get some high-quality state polls. They suggest Clinton's in a considerably better position post-debate."

link: http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/

Trump seems to be losing it at the moment....He's doing his best to push away more women.....This morning's surreal Miss Universe tweets + him bringing of Billy Clint's sexual conduct by hanging it on HRC = BAD MOVE....But that's what Trump DOOOOOO......lol

Oh yeah...The recent Cuba story won't help him in Florida, either....Trump has to crush HRC in the next town hall debates to settle that horse down.....

Basically the middle America bible spits these bars:


In the 34-year history of USA TODAY, the Editorial Board has never taken sides in the presidential race. Instead, we’ve expressed opinions about the major issues and haven’t presumed to tell our readers, who have a variety of priorities and values, which choice is best for them. Because every presidential race is different, we revisit our no-endorsement policy every four years. We’ve never seen reason to alter our approach. Until now...

...Whatever you do, however, resist the siren song of a dangerous demagogue. By all means vote, just not for Donald Trump.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2016/09/29/dont-vote-for-donald-trump-editorial-board-editorials-debates/91295020/

told me he was moving to the country because it was about to go down.

I shrugged it off but dude looked like Karl Rove Jr and sometimes I wonder if that dude was fear mongering or let some shit slip thay he wouldnt say if sober.

.

on CNN and shit...

Or endorsements in general, i think.

Based on all these "first in our history" endorsements, you would believe that Trump has absolutely no chance, yet here we are.

.

Talking about her sex tape.
This story would have been over by Tuesday if he didn't feel the need to fight back so hard on inconsequential attacks.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/elections-2016-donald-trump-alicia-machado-tweets-debate-preparation-nj-gov-chris-christie/

>Talking about her sex tape.
>This story would have been over by Tuesday if he didn't feel
>the need to fight back so hard on inconsequential attacks.
>
>http://www.cbsnews.com/news/elections-2016-donald-trump-alicia-machado-tweets-debate-preparation-nj-gov-chris-christie/


Ana Navaro just summed it up perfectly....

"Trump's last 7 days: invited/disinvited Gennifer Flowers; fat-shamed @Rosie & Machado; violated embargo; revealed to have supported Iraq War..."

None of this^^^^ will matter to his rube followers.

They would drink his piss and call it the best lemonade they have ever tasted....But for the demo that he is trying to reach out to (college educated white men and white women), this week has been brutal. He's slowly sinking again in the state polls....

I hope he keeps it up....

No one is that dumb...

my tin foil hat is on and its shiny as hell...

this dude aint trying to reach those voters.

>No one is that dumb...

Has nothing to do with dude being dumb....He's being Trump...This is his MO....He can't and won't change...


>my tin foil hat is on and its shiny as hell...

Indeed...

>this dude aint trying to reach those voters.


Um...Trump was trying to reach those voters, Legs (http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/08/trumps-bleached-appeal-to-black-voters.html)

That's why he did his black outreach ^^^^^...

His campaign people wanted him to come off like he had a heart....They thought it would be a good idea to have him go to black churches, NOT TO GET THE BLACK VOTE, but to appeal to suburban white women and college educated women (u can look this shit up, dog....not making it up...) so they wouldn't feel they were voting for a full blown racist...

And then Trump, which he has done for decades, went Trump....

Wash, rinse, repeat.....

almost every candidate's campaign has run their social media account. Thats just how its done. Let the professional PR people handle that



the fact that its really Trump typing on that Twitter handle is both fascinating and huge insight into how much control he has over the staff

like what the fuck does his campaign manager even do? Does he even have one? lol

i can't imagine how a reasonable person could be undecided at this point in this election...

that seems like the only undecided that makes any sense.

I don't believe any of these "after the debate I changed my mind" voters

But there are several handfuls of white voters in Iowa and Ohio who don't care about trumps racism or massage a knee
But they've been democratic voters their whole life but Hillary is such a turnoff that they have decided to play the field and see what else is out there

>i can't imagine how a reasonable person could be undecided at
>this point in this election...

To put them in perspective, I think of being on an airplane. The flight attendant comes down the aisle with her food cart and, eventually, parks it beside my seat. “Can I interest you in the chicken?” she asks. “Or would you prefer the platter of shit with bits of broken glass in it?”

To be undecided in this election is to pause for a moment and then ask how the chicken is cooked.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2008/10/27/undecided

People in Trump's campaign are blaming Rudy G. for Trump's fumble at the debates.....They r saying he's the one that told him to bring up Billy Clint's sex scandals and was backing his approach to not boning up for his one on one with Clinton...

Now Robert Costa has a set of Tweets that make me think Rudy G. has taken over as dude's right hand man....Seems like he's salty from that senate race against HillDawg when he got his ass kicked even before coming out the gate....Now he's guiding Trump on messaging....

This shit is surreal....

Robert Costa ‏@costareports

Robert Costa ‏@costareports
Former New York mayor Rudy Giuliani just called...

-RG is w/ DT, talking thru Clintons
-Marc Rich pardon discussed
-Then talk of FBI investgn/immunity
-Decide to demand no HRC pardon

Robert Costa ‏@costareports
Giuliani: “Trump and I have been talking it through… It looks more like Justice gave pardons than immunity. It's absurd.”

Robert Costa ‏@costareports 59m59 minutes ago
GIULIANI says Trump tonight will "demand that President Obama not pardon Hillary Clinton" for any possible legal issues

Robert Costa ‏@costareports 1h1 hour ago
Giuliani is traveling with Trump on the campaign trail. Has been meeting with GOP nominee all day to talk through messaging...

Trump needs to

1)Stay on his 'message'
2)Not get mad

That's it.

All this switcheroos in his inner circle, his kids blaming this one and that one for the fuckups.

I love the fact he's blaming on these external factors...all the trouble's he's had have been self made; he's the loser that keeps on dropping the ball and I know deep inside he can't stand it.

The legit scary thing about this all; if he's really trying to be more presidential and still falls from these easy to avoid banana's in the tailpipe (c) at this level...there's a legitimate good chance dude will get us killed if he becomes president.

Someone said even if Hilary sucks at least with her you can guarantee there will be an election you can vote in 2020...

>Robert Costa ‏@costareports 59m59 minutes ago
>GIULIANI says Trump tonight will "demand that President Obama
>not pardon Hillary Clinton" for any possible legal issues

Trump needs to ask Obama for a pardon for himself over recent revelations about Trump's business practices....

>>Robert Costa ‏@costareports 59m59 minutes ago
>>GIULIANI says Trump tonight will "demand that President
>Obama
>>not pardon Hillary Clinton" for any possible legal issues
>
>Trump needs to ask Obama for a pardon for himself over recent
>revelations about Trump's business practices....



I mean.......

for any of his misdeeds that have come out. Or I think it would be a bad idea to prosecute him for any of his crimes.


I don't think we want to be another one of those countries that throws the opposition party in jail after losing an election. That's a bad look.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

feels like another civil war is coming.


... Oh, and i sing too!
https://m.facebook.com/jamelabullock
Www.reverbnation.com/jamela

to something really bad where this is widespread questioning of the legitimacy of presidents.

I heard that what the Russians will likely do is tamper with our elections not to give votes to Trump but to give votes to Hillary to make it look like the election was rigged in her favor.




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

*sigh* but this is no time for a "protest" vote

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Canada and some other places are already doing the things we're refusing to do.

As far as voting? Everything points to voting for Trump. If I vote for Jill, it's a vote for Trump. If I vote for Johnson (which I won') it's a vote for Trump. If I don't vote it's a vote for Trump. Ironically the biggest vote for Trump was the vote for Hillary because she's the candidate he can beat.

I think I'm going to vote Stein, though honestly I want to vote on the Working Families Party line. Me and my lady left the Democratic Party this year. I don't think Hillary will lose, especially here in NY. But Jill has earned my vote, and the issues at stake deserve support. It is important that the certain platform positions get political support. I don't want Hillary to lose for some "I told you so" shit. But there are bigger fish to fry.

>Canada and some other places are already doing the things
>we're refusing to do.
>
>As far as voting? Everything points to voting for Trump. If I
>vote for Jill, it's a vote for Trump. If I vote for Johnson
>(which I won') it's a vote for Trump. If I don't vote it's a
>vote for Trump. Ironically the biggest vote for Trump was the
>vote for Hillary because she's the candidate he can beat.
>
>I think I'm going to vote Stein, though honestly I want to
>vote on the Working Families Party line. Me and my lady left
>the Democratic Party this year. I don't think Hillary will
>lose, especially here in NY. But Jill has earned my vote, and
>the issues at stake deserve support. It is important that the
>certain platform positions get political support. I don't want
>Hillary to lose for some "I told you so" shit. But there are
>bigger fish to fry.
>
>

An indictment of the 2 party system.

And I'll forever say this: if you didn't want Trump to have a shot at the White House then you shouldn't have nominated a candidate that he could beat.

I get the fear of Trumo, and voting for real issues - but I thought people were voting for what they wanted? People want Hillary to be the first woman President. We have other issues than that to fight for. I sincerely wish Hillary were a better candidate. If she went all the way, and was the progressive she thinks she is it would be a slam dunk.

in the general.

The general election was always Bernie's Achilles heel. He was a movement candidate, the rank-and-file were never behind him (that's why they voted for Hillary), and his insurgent movement was puny compared to Trump's. Bernie would have had to play Trump's "outsider" game, and he would have failed.

>I get the fear of Trumo, and voting for real issues - but I
>thought people were voting for what they wanted?

"Voting for what you want" can mean a lot of different things. See the Chomsky post below.

>People want
>Hillary to be the first woman President. We have other issues
>than that to fight for. I sincerely wish Hillary were a better
>candidate. If she went all the way, and was the progressive
>she thinks she is it would be a slam dunk.

She is exactly as progressive as she thinks she is.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/hillary-clinton-was-liberal-hillary-clinton-is-liberal/

The Hillary hatred, yours and others', has nothing to do with issues or facts.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/larry-womack/stop-pretending-you-dont-_b_12191766.html

posting this one more time to fall on covered/lalalalala ears

and really, it's this:
"what needs to be challenged is the assumption that voting should be seen a form of individual self-expression rather than as an act to be judged on its likely consequences, specifically those outlined in 4). The basic moral principle at stake is simple: not only must we take responsibility for our actions, but the consequences of our actions for others are a far more important consideration than feeling good about ourselves."

https://chomsky.info/an-eight-point-brief-for-lev-lesser-evil-voting/

Preamble:

Among the elements of the weak form of democracy enshrined in the constitution, presidential elections continue to pose a dilemma for the left in that any form of participation or non participation appears to impose a significant cost on our capacity to develop a serious opposition to the corporate agenda served by establishment politicians. The position outlined below is that which many regard as the most effective response to this quadrennial Hobson’s choice, namely the so-called “lesser evil” voting strategy or LEV. Simply put, LEV involves, where you can, i.e. in safe states, voting for the losing third party candidate you prefer, or not voting at all. In competitive “swing” states, where you must, one votes for the “lesser evil” Democrat.

Before fielding objections, it will be useful to make certain background stipulations with respect to the points below. The first is to note that since changes in the relevant facts require changes in tactics, proposals having to do with our relationship to the “electoral extravaganza” should be regarded as provisional. This is most relevant with respect to point 3) which some will challenge by citing the claim that Clinton’s foreign policy could pose a more serious menace than that of Trump.

In any case, while conceding as an outside possibility that Trump’s foreign policy is preferable, most of us not already convinced that that is so will need more evidence than can be aired in a discussion involving this statement. Furthermore, insofar as this is the fact of the matter, following the logic through seems to require a vote for Trump, though it’s a bit hard to know whether those making this suggestion are intending it seriously.

Another point of disagreement is not factual but involves the ethical/moral principle addressed in 1), sometimes referred to as the “politics of moral witness.” Generally associated with the religious left, secular leftists implicitly invoke it when they reject LEV on the grounds that “a lesser of two evils is still evil.” Leaving aside the obvious rejoinder that this is exactly the point of lesser evil voting-i.e. to do less evil, what needs to be challenged is the assumption that voting should be seen a form of individual self-expression rather than as an act to be judged on its likely consequences, specifically those outlined in 4). The basic moral principle at stake is simple: not only must we take responsibility for our actions, but the consequences of our actions for others are a far more important consideration than feeling good about ourselves.

While some would suggest extending the critique by noting that the politics of moral witness can become indistinguishable from narcissistic self-agrandizement, this is substantially more harsh than what was intended and harsher than what is merited. That said, those reflexively denouncing advocates of LEV on a supposed “moral” basis should consider that their footing on the high ground may not be as secure as they often take for granted to be the case.

A third criticism of LEV equates it with a passive acquiescence to the bipartisan status quo under the guise of pragmatism, usually deriving from those who have lost the appetite for radical change. It is surely the case that some of those endorsing LEV are doing so in bad faith-cynical functionaries whose objective is to promote capitulation to a system which they are invested in protecting. Others supporting LEV, however, can hardly be reasonably accused of having made their peace with the establishment. Their concern, as alluded to in 6) and 7) inheres in the awareness that frivolous and poorly considered electoral decisions impose a cost, their memories extending to the ultra-left faction of the peace movement having minimized the comparative dangers of the Nixon presidency during the 1968 elections. The result was six years of senseless death and destruction in Southeast Asia and also a predictable fracture of the left setting it up for its ultimate collapse during the backlash decades to follow.

The broader lesson to be drawn is not to shy away from confronting the dominance of the political system under the management of the two major parties. Rather, challenges to it need to be issued with a full awareness of their possible consequences. This includes the recognition that far right victories not only impose terrible suffering on the most vulnerable segments of society but also function as a powerful weapon in the hands of the establishment center, which, now in opposition can posture as the “reasonable” alternative. A Trump presidency, should it materialize, will undermine the burgeoning movement centered around the Sanders campaign, particularly if it is perceived as having minimized the dangers posed by the far right.

A more general conclusion to be derived from this recognition is that this sort of cost/benefit strategic accounting is fundamental to any politics which is serious about radical change. Those on the left who ignore it, or dismiss it as irrelevant are engaging in political fantasy and are an obstacle to, rather than ally of, the movement which now seems to be materializing.

Finally, it should be understood that the reigning doctrinal system recognizes the role presidential elections perform in diverting the left from actions which have the potential to be effective in advancing its agenda. These include developing organizations committed to extra-political means, most notably street protest, but also competing for office in potentially winnable races. The left should devote the minimum of time necessary to exercise the LEV choice then immediately return to pursuing goals which are not timed to the national electoral cycle.

*****

1) Voting should not be viewed as a form of personal self-expression or moral judgement directed in retaliation towards major party candidates who fail to reflect our values, or of a corrupt system designed to limit choices to those acceptable to corporate elites.

2) The exclusive consequence of the act of voting in 2016 will be (if in a contested “swing state”) to marginally increase or decrease the chance of one of the major party candidates winning.

3) One of these candidates, Trump, denies the existence of global warming, calls for increasing use of fossil fuels, dismantling of environmental regulations and refuses assistance to India and other developing nations as called for in the Paris agreement, the combination of which could, in four years, take us to a catastrophic tipping point. Trump has also pledged to deport 11 million Mexican immigrants, offered to provide for the defense of supporters who have assaulted African American protestors at his rallies, stated his “openness to using nuclear weapons”, supports a ban on Muslims entering the U.S. and regards “the police in this country as absolutely mistreated and misunderstood” while having “done an unbelievable job of keeping law and order.” Trump has also pledged to increase military spending while cutting taxes on the rich, hence shredding what remains of the social welfare “safety net” despite pretenses.

4) The suffering which these and other similarly extremist policies and attitudes will impose on marginalized and already oppressed populations has a high probability of being significantly greater than that which will result from a Clinton presidency.

5) 4) should constitute sufficient basis to voting for Clinton where a vote is potentially consequential-namely, in a contested, “swing” state.

6) However, the left should also recognize that, should Trump win based on its failure to support Clinton, it will repeatedly face the accusation (based in fact), that it lacks concern for those sure to be most victimized by a Trump administration.

7) Often this charge will emanate from establishment operatives who will use it as a bad faith justification for defeating challenges to corporate hegemony either in the Democratic Party or outside of it. They will ensure that it will be widely circulated in mainstream media channels with the result that many of those who would otherwise be sympathetic to a left challenge will find it a convincing reason to maintain their ties with the political establishment rather than breaking with it, as they must.

8) Conclusion: by dismissing a “lesser evil” electoral logic and thereby increasing the potential for Clinton’s defeat the left will undermine what should be at the core of what it claims to be attempting to achieve.

center and shits on Bernie supporters

SMH, ya'll so blinded by Trump you can't even see it when she shows you

#hillarysoprogressive

When u got the latest bombshell that Trump may not have paid taxes in 18 years, HRC's "basement" excerpt comments tend to get muted out....Also, here's the final bow on the leak....HillDawg went on to say this about Millennials...the Children of Bernie....The same shit she was saying in her stomp speech....

"Some are new to politics completely. They’re children of the Great Recession. And they are living in their parents’ basement. They feel they got their education and the jobs that are available to them are not at all what they envisioned for themselves. And they don’t see much of a future. I met with a group of young black millennials today and you know one of the young women said, “You know, none of us feel that we have the job that we should have gotten out of college. And we don’t believe the job market is going to give us much of a chance.

So that is a mindset that is really affecting their politics. And so if you’re feeling like you’re consigned to, you know, being a barista, or you know, some other job that doesn’t pay a lot, and doesn’t have some other ladder of opportunity attached to it, then the idea that maybe, just maybe, you could be part of a political revolution is pretty appealing. So I think we should all be really understanding of that and should try to do the best we can not to be, you know, a wet blanket on idealism. We want people to be idealistic. We want them to set big goals. But to take what we can achieve now and try to present them as bigger goals."

Stop the presses!

It's amazing how far some of you Bernie Bros will go to allow yourselves to be exploited by conservatives.

She didn't "shit on millennials"

However I also don't think it's a real leak. I think it is fabricated. *shrugs*

Doesn't matter though. This aint about issues anymore. At least there will have been a woman President in our country's history.

Oh. Em. Gee!

I read the inflammatory headlines and was ready to ride on her and her supporters, but nah. Nothing to see there.

It was made out to be a 48% moment or whatever by certain folks who didn't actually read what she said, and there was nothing to it really.

**shrugs**

>center and shits on Bernie supporters

So this is why Trump doesn't want to release his taxes....I mean we all kinda knew that dude probably didn't break off any money to the government, but this is some eye opening shit. Yeah yeah...The Trump rubes are screaming, BUT THAT MAKES HIM A GOOD BUSINESS MAN...WHO WANTS TO PAY TAXES???? The problem is Trump has gone on record many times shitting on CEO's and politicians for not paying their fair share of taxes. He even trolled Romney about his taxes.....

The money quote for me? Trump's former tax accountant who basically gave up the ghost: “Here the guy was building incredible net worth and not paying tax on it....."

I can't...
---

Trump Tax Records Obtained by The Times Reveal He Could Have Avoided Paying Taxes for Nearly Two Decades
By DAVID BARSTOW, SUSANNE CRAIG, RUSS BUETTNER and MEGAN TWOHEYOCT. 1, 2016

Donald J. Trump declared a $916 million loss on his 1995 income tax returns, a tax deduction so substantial it could have allowed him to legally avoid paying any federal income taxes for up to 18 years, records obtained by The New York Times show.

The 1995 tax records, never before disclosed, reveal the extraordinary tax benefits that Mr. Trump, the Republican presidential nominee, derived from the financial wreckage he left behind in the early 1990s through mismanagement of three Atlantic City casinos, his ill-fated foray into the airline business and his ill-timed purchase of the Plaza Hotel in Manhattan.

Tax experts hired by The Times to analyze Mr. Trump’s 1995 records said that tax rules especially advantageous to wealthy filers would have allowed Mr. Trump to use his $916 million loss to cancel out an equivalent amount of taxable income over an 18-year period.

Photo

A line from one of Mr. Trump’s 1995 tax returns obtained by The New York Times.
Although Mr. Trump’s taxable income in subsequent years is as yet unknown, a $916 million loss in 1995 would have been large enough to wipe out more than $50 million a year in taxable income over 18 years.

The $916 million loss certainly could have eliminated any federal income taxes Mr. Trump otherwise would have owed on the $50,000 to $100,000 he was paid for each episode of “The Apprentice,” or the roughly $45 million he was paid between 1995 and 2009 when he was chairman or chief executive of the publicly traded company he created to assume ownership of his troubled Atlantic City casinos. Ordinary investors in the new company, meanwhile, saw the value of their shares plunge to 17 cents from $35.50, while scores of contractors went unpaid for work on Mr. Trump’s casinos and casino bondholders received pennies on the dollar.

“He has a vast benefit from his destruction” in the early 1990s, said one of the experts, Joel Rosenfeld, an assistant professor at New York University’s Schack Institute of Real Estate. Mr. Rosenfeld offered this description of what he would advise a client who came to him with a tax return like Mr. Trump’s: “Do you realize you can create $916 million in income without paying a nickel in taxes?”

Mr. Trump declined to comment on the documents. Instead, the campaign released a statement that neither challenged nor confirmed the $916 million loss.

“Mr. Trump is a highly-skilled businessman who has a fiduciary responsibility to his business, his family and his employees to pay no more tax than legally required,” the statement said. “That being said, Mr. Trump has paid hundreds of millions of dollars in property taxes, sales and excise taxes, real estate taxes, city taxes, state taxes, employee taxes and federal taxes.”

The statement continued, “Mr. Trump knows the tax code far better than anyone who has ever run for President and he is the only one that knows how to fix it.”

For the rest of the article: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/02/us/politics/donald-trump-taxes.html?_r=0

I had drinks with a newly minted Pharmacist last week (my boy's girl) and she was complaining about the $3500 a month in taxes she has to pay.
Me and him laughed and said, "Are you a Republican yet? Welcome!"

Folks want to be on that HRC train until it starts hitting THEIR pockets.


Trump's non-payment of taxes did not put our national security at risk nor did it leave four brave Americans dead defending this country!

than you will ever be who advocate for progressive tax systems. You really think poor people are the ones who developed the theories behind graduated income taxes? Complaining about tax policy based on your gut reaction to seeing a pay stub is some shit a 15 year old does after their first month at Duane Read.

You're better than this.

The issue isn't that he's trying to pay lower taxes, the point is it shows that he's touting his record as a business man but he's not very forthcoming with how he handles his businesses or personal finances. You think he really wanted the public to find out he lost nearly a billion dollars in a year?

>Complaining about tax policy based on your gut reaction to
>seeing a pay stub is some shit a 15 year old does after their
>first month at Duane Read.
>
>You're better than this.


Shit is absurd
I'm not saying we shouldn't support the deaf, dumb and blind
I'm saying I don't want to work three hours and have to give one to the govt

shit the government protects your ability to fucking make money in a capitalist economy. The "free-market" is still a marketplace, and unless you want to go to a market with no stalls, no security, and no regulations on the shit your buying, it really isn't enough to just say, "well, I don't like paying taxes". The taxes go to the upkeep of the civilization that allows you to make money in the first place.

Shit, we couldn't even be arguing over the internet if it wasn't for taxes.

I don't like paying my rent, but I have to do it so I don't have to build a lean-to out in a state park...which by the way, only exists thanks to taxes.

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

so don't come at me with that dumb shit

there is a LOT of waste in govt




>shit the government protects your ability to fucking make
>money in a capitalist economy. The "free-market" is still a
>marketplace, and unless you want to go to a market with no
>stalls, no security, and no regulations on the shit your
>buying, it really isn't enough to just say, "well, I don't
>like paying taxes". The taxes go to the upkeep of the
>civilization that allows you to make money in the first
>place.
>
>Shit, we couldn't even be arguing over the internet if it
>wasn't for taxes.
>
>I don't like paying my rent, but I have to do it so I don't
>have to build a lean-to out in a state park...which by the
>way, only exists thanks to taxes.
>
>(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

and their contributions helped give you the opportunity to be at your current earning power. At some point you aren't going to be earning and putting in as much as you are now, and you'll start to take out more than you do now. I'm sorry that your marginal tax rate is high enough to annoy you, but your annoyance doesn't convince me that Trump is right not to release his taxes, or beyond reproach for not paying taxes.

Also, yeah there is a lot of waste in government. Do you have something that proves that your contributions are going to waste? Or what percentage of total tax revenue is wasted? So outside of just using waste as a platitude, what does that prove about the need for taxes or the efficacy of a graduated income tax?


(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

>and their contributions helped give you the opportunity to be
>at your current earning power. At some point you aren't going
>to be earning and putting in as much as you are now, and
>you'll start to take out more than you do now. I'm sorry that
>your marginal tax rate is high enough to annoy you, but your
>annoyance doesn't convince me that Trump is right not to
>release his taxes, or beyond reproach for not paying taxes.



My kids will benefit because their father had forethought and SAVED some shit for them
he WORKED HARD and didn't spend all he had
so that it could grow into some shit for them when the get of age
just as my daddy did for me


if society is equally available to all of us
then why dont we all benefit equally?
it's kinda weird when one guy has to pay $915,000,000 in taxes
that's fucking INSANE
that's a looooot of fucking roads to be built for that kinda money
i'm not no "cry for the rich man" type person
i'm just saying that's fucking an insance amount of money for ONE person to have to pay


let's take an example
let's say the dude that "invented" the CroNut made $1Billion last year
he'd have to pay roughly $400,000,000 in taxes
is that right?
how has he "unproportionally benefited" from society or the govt?
the muthafucka just sprinkled some sugar on a deep fried croissant and got idiots to stand in line for 4 hours to buy one at $5 a pop
why is he being penalized for his ingenuity?





>
>Also, yeah there is a lot of waste in government. Do you have
>something that proves that your contributions are going to
>waste? Or what percentage of total tax revenue is wasted? So
>outside of just using waste as a platitude, what does that
>prove about the need for taxes or the efficacy of a graduated
>income tax?


Bridge to nowhere in Alaska is one.
All that got damned aid money we give Israel is another.

Any percentage of a big number will be a big number. Would you prefer a flat dollar amount of taxes rather than a percentage? That way cronut man pays $2000 in tax just like Bob the Builder?

>
>if society is equally available to all of us
>then why dont we all benefit equally?
>it's kinda weird when one guy has to pay $915,000,000 in
>taxes
>that's fucking INSANE
>that's a looooot of fucking roads to be built for that kinda
>money
>i'm not no "cry for the rich man" type person
>i'm just saying that's fucking an insance amount of money for
>ONE person to have to pay
>
>
>let's take an example
>let's say the dude that "invented" the CroNut made $1Billion
>last year
>he'd have to pay roughly $400,000,000 in taxes
>is that right?
>how has he "unproportionally benefited" from society or the
>govt?
>the muthafucka just sprinkled some sugar on a deep fried
>croissant and got idiots to stand in line for 4 hours to buy
>one at $5 a pop
>why is he being penalized for his ingenuity?
>
>

>

I could care less about CroNut man paying so much in taxes
But I'm getting mollywhopped too.
But Keishaundranae ain't paying shit
And Aislyn ain't neither

Fo-real.

"I don't know, I just want better"

No analysis, no nuance, no understanding of economics, no compassion, no understanding of the public good, and no desire to learn.

Good ole Murrican anti-intellectualism at its finest.

Just "I pay more than I should"

and "Cronut Billionaire shouldn't have to pay so much"

and "my daddy did better then your daddy so why should I 'suffer'"

This is that good Murrican programming.

The outspoken racist rednecks and bigots are on thing.


But when people start talking that ole' bootstrap rhetoric + job creator/ billionaire worship its about to go down.

Justifying a presidential candidate avoiding taxes????

Un-Real

>No analysis, no nuance, no understanding of economics, no
>compassion, no understanding of the public good, and no desire
>to learn.
>
>Good ole Murrican anti-intellectualism


How many first time voters in 2008 who voted for Obama did a deep dive analysis of the candidates?
Or did they just choose the black guy?

How many voters understand economics to the point it will be effective in govt?

How many of these voters that Hillary and Pusha T bring to the ballot box are intellectuals or understand nuance?

See, all that shit you despise is only good when the vote goes for your candidate.

How many supporters of Obamacare really understood what it was about or how it worked or knew that it would fuck up just as many insurance policies that it helped "fix".

that I buy into that Horatio Alger bullshit.

Hard work and personal responsibility are important, but being a "self-made man" is nothing more than a slogan. You, me, your dad, my dad, Trump's dad, etc. benefit from society maintaining systems that allow us to make the most of that work and responsibility.

>My kids will benefit because their father had forethought and
>SAVED some shit for them
>he WORKED HARD and didn't spend all he had
>so that it could grow into some shit for them when the get of
>age
>just as my daddy did for me

And nothing I said negates that, but you honestly seem to be under the impression that you and your family came into this world out of the fucking wilderness like a game of Civilization.

Your dad didn't invent the fucking Navy. He served in a massive government program that was paid for by, surprise surprise! Tax dollars! Tax payers helped give your dad, and my dad an opportunity to serve their country and make some money, but those opportunities were supported by collective institutions. Your dad made the most of what he had the chance to do, and for that he is to be commended, that is the American way...but he didn't do it alone. No one does.

>if society is equally available to all of us
>then why dont we all benefit equally?
>it's kinda weird when one guy has to pay $915,000,000 in
>taxes
>that's fucking INSANE
>that's a looooot of fucking roads to be built for that kinda
>money
>i'm not no "cry for the rich man" type person
>i'm just saying that's fucking an insance amount of money for
>ONE person to have to pay

He was born in a country that allowed him the opportunity to use his talents to make an obscene amount of money. The rest of us footed the bill so that the government can regulate industries and protect his investments. He has the advantages of our schools, our civic institutions, and the incredible amount of resources and capital available to citizens of this nation.

If doesn't feel like he owes this country something, or that this society hasn't contributed to making him a wealthy man he can move his ass to Somalia or an Island in the South China sea and see how fun it is being a billionaire in the absence of a developed nation state.

>
>let's take an example
>let's say the dude that "invented" the CroNut made $1Billion
>last year
>he'd have to pay roughly $400,000,000 in taxes
>is that right?
>how has he "unproportionally benefited" from society or the
>govt?
>the muthafucka just sprinkled some sugar on a deep fried
>croissant and got idiots to stand in line for 4 hours to buy
>one at $5 a pop
>why is he being penalized for his ingenuity?

Could he have made that much money in a country that wouldn't tax him?

The fact that we protect his intellectual property, and provide him with the space to make a billion dollars means he has benefited from society.

>Bridge to nowhere in Alaska is one.
>All that got damned aid money we give Israel is another.

Yeah, we should get our priorities straight. I'm still not convinced that we need to stop paying taxes because of this though.

Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 14 May 2012
"Facebook billionaire gives up his U.S. citizenship in order to save taxes. I guess 3.8 billion isn't enough..."

A lot of the Trump rubes don't care.....

The rest of the country will.....Some folks will be giving your man the side-eye because Trump is the same man who shitted on corporate CEO's and politicians for not paying their fair share of taxes.....

This is one of my favorite ones: "@BarackObama who wants to raise all our taxes, only pays 20.5% on $790k salary. http://1.usa.gov/HFZJKH Do as I say not as I do...."

There's no way to spin out of this one....

>
>
>A lot of the Trump rubes don't care.....
>
>The rest of the country will.....Some folks will be giving
>your man the side-eye because Trump is the same man who
>shitted on corporate CEO's and politicians for not paying
>their fair share of taxes.....



you know you side talk and double talk, right?
didn't you say "the rest of the country won't care" about those emails?

didn't you say, four ppl died in Benghazi and Hillary lied about knowing about it, "the rest of the country won't care" about that.

cmon Murph, not like this
only when it benefits Hillary does it care

Hillary called young black males "superpredators" but "the rest of the country won't care"

hahahahahahahahaha!!!!!

U desperate as fuck, dog....Even for u, this ain't a good look......

>hahahahahahahahaha!!!!!
>
>U desperate as fuck, dog....Even for u, this ain't a good
>look......


on her heels
imagine Floyd Mayweather being pummelled and on the ropes by some young up and coming YMCA boxer

Hillary should be wipin the floor with Trump but why is she barely keeping her head above water?
why are you giving so much commentary on this?

When U of Alabama plays Kent State in football it's not talked about because everyone knows Bama will win by at least 35 points
that's the kinda lead HRC needs to have against Trump
instead, HRC is only up by two points and Trump has the ball on the 20 yard line with two mins left in the game

Your girl is hurting and you don't want to admit it
She's a shit candidate
should have never made it this far
She wants to take credit for shit that got done while her husband was in office SCHIP
but she don't want to take no blame for shit he did in office NAFTA and Lewinsky
can't have it both ways dog

U should like Trump surrogate....U went straight to Benghazi...Weak sauce, dog...

I'm kinda shocked....

lol...

That's all....

Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All this latest news proves is that Trump is a con man....His rep as a great businessman is on some bullshit...He's conned the system and now he's conning his rube ass followers...

>
>Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>All this latest news proves is that Trump is a con man....His
>rep as a great businessman is on some bullshit...He's conned
>the system and now he's conning his rube ass followers...



You don't amass that much wealth conning ppl.
Even if he is only at...
Maaaaaaan his taxes showed he lost $915,000,000
I doubt your entire family for the last 200years has sniffed that kinda coin.

That's a LOT of fucking bread

>>
>>Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>>All this latest news proves is that Trump is a con
>man....His
>>rep as a great businessman is on some bullshit...He's conned
>>the system and now he's conning his rube ass followers...
>
>
>
>You don't amass that much wealth conning ppl.
>Even if he is only at...
>Maaaaaaan his taxes showed he lost $915,000,000
>I doubt your entire family for the last 200years has sniffed
>that kinda coin.
>
>That's a LOT of fucking bread


Bread that Trump has amassed on other investors misery....His business acumen is one big Ponzi scheme....

The rubes love it, though....

>Bread that Trump has amassed on other investors misery....His
>business acumen is one big Ponzi scheme....


Do you know how iPhones are made?
What minerals from mines in african countries are in them and how they are sourced?
you think steve jobs didn't know how these minerals were sourced?
how is steve jobs biz acumen?
bill gates too!

you think every company just makes a bunch of money without having any folks that are left holding the bag?

do you understand how the financial markets work?
no risk, no reward.

yes he got a $14M loan form his dad to start the company
let me see you take $140M and turn it into a billion
better yet, take $240M and turn it into a billion

shit aint easy, bruh
not easy AT ALL

and now he has about four and a half billion.

But if he'd put the $200M into an index fund and reinvested the dividends, it would have grown to $12 Billion.

So if he'd just been a moderately good investor and done no work at all, he'd have significantly more money now.

On top of that, he's gotten about $850 million in tax subsidies from New York State alone.

I'll admit, I'm stealing these numbers straight from a blog post by Robert Reich, but the main point is clear: it's not hard to turn a few hundred million dollars into a few billion.

FOH
Hillary said he got $14million so that's all he got.
Stop trying to up it.

And who would leave their money in an index fund through all those tumultuous times?
That's exactly why growing money like that ain't easy.

Stop hatin!!!








>and now he has about four and a half billion.
>
>But if he'd put the $200M into an index fund and reinvested
>the dividends, it would have grown to $12 Billion.
>
>So if he'd just been a moderately good investor and done no
>work at all, he'd have significantly more money now.
>
>On top of that, he's gotten about $850 million in tax
>subsidies from New York State alone.
>
>I'll admit, I'm stealing these numbers straight from a blog
>post by Robert Reich, but the main point is clear: it's not
>hard to turn a few hundred million dollars into a few billion.
>
>

The $200M was the inheritance when Fred died, which was later, but still relatively early in Trump's career.

If Trump put $200M in a Dow Jones Index Fund on December 31, 1976
How much would that account be worth today with no further deposits?

Hmmmmm????

And I don't claim them as hard facts.

But if you bring up a historical chart, you find that both the DJIA and the S&P have grown by about a factor of 5 since 1976. So that already gets you to $1B. And that's without any further investment or dividend reinvestment. That's just what the average investor would end up with if they did absolutely nothing.

>But if you bring up a historical chart, you find that both the
>DJIA and the S&P have grown by about a factor of 5 since 1976.
>So that already gets you to $1B. And that's without any
>further investment or dividend reinvestment. That's just what
>the average investor would end up with if they did absolutely
>nothing.


I see the DJIA was at 1,000 on Jan 1, 1977 and it is 18,000 today
but all the calculators I use asy that $1,000 invested on Jan 1, 1977 would only be worth around 10,000 today
so trumps $200M would be worth $2B today
But, He's clearly up around $10B so methinks he far out performed the market.

Again, stop with yall cockamaie bullshit

And again, if the "avg investor" DOES do something more times than not they LOSE money

>But, He's clearly up around $10B so methinks he far out
>performed the market.

The only place that number has come up is in his financial disclosure, which is mostly unregulated and obviously heavily biased in favor of making his penis seem large.

Forbes, etc., themselves still biased in his favor, peg his current net worth somewhere in the $4B range. We still don't know for sure, though, because we haven't seen his tax returns.

That is A LOT of bread for folks to estimate for you to have and more then DOUBLE what you said the lazy average return a person would have got
Right?

You said average would have 1-2B in their acct, but in the low end Trump reportedly has DOUBLE that at $4B and in the high end $10B

You mad?


>>But, He's clearly up around $10B so methinks he far out
>>performed the market.
>
>The only place that number has come up is in his financial
>disclosure, which is mostly unregulated and obviously heavily
>biased in favor of making his penis seem large.
>
>Forbes, etc., themselves still biased in his favor, peg his
>current net worth somewhere in the $4B range. We still don't
>know for sure, though, because we haven't seen his tax
>returns.
>

And by wealth, I'm talking real, tangible assets and not the make-believe wealth of his "brand". That's the weird thing about you Trump supporters: you're taking everything someone who has been proven to be a habitual liar on face value as true, even when there are really easy ways to prove or disprove it, which he refuses to abide by.

That's the weird thing about you Hillary supporters: you're taking everything someone who has been proven to be a habitual liar (Bosnia snipers, Superpredators, TPP, email server, etc) on face value as true, even when there are really easy ways to prove or disprove it (Sinbad was on the plane WITH Hillary and blew her cover, there is video evidence of her supporting TPP, she's just a LIAR).

There is one easy way to (partially) prove his wealth and so-called acumen as a businessmen and he is refusing to do it. Why is that? Why won't he release his taxes? If not 2015s, why not any of them? It's because he's a conman that likely isn't worth shit.

And how is that Bosnia sniper fire shit even relevant to anything? She embellished the crap out of something that happened when she was in no office at all. So what? Your boy flat out lies at an alarming clip. You support a fucking birther; how dumb does that make you?

who died under Powell/Rice?

I'm willing to bet no.

I hadn't heard a word about it until Paul Begala mentioned it in a talking-heads panel on CNN. Everyone was stunned, like they had no idea what he was talking about. The press hasn't mentioned this point, I guess because it's too much distraction from the "Hillary is untrustworthy" narrative.

at some point you have to admit this is an idiocracy.

there's something really wrong with the republican party - its supposed to be the party of fiscal conservatism
this is the shit they are peddling
fear/hate of a black man really took them off the cliff

.

To soften everyone up to the reason he hasn't paid any taxes in 20 years. And it's better than just openly releasing them because he gets to bash the media at the same time re: the leak.

Yeah....I'm going to call bullshit on that....lol

Though if it was her, it would kind of screw things up for their daughter, who's trying to get back into the Trump fold.

https://goo.gl/t5BF5L

this dude is completely unhinged
team hillary probably hired a psychologist to come up with the best way to rattle that cage
she's playing chess, he's out here playing marbles.
and btw, anyone who is still supporting trump is a cesspool
why waste your common sense trying to rationalize with someone as dumb as a doornail?


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/10/02/as-news-of-trumps-taxes-broke-he-goes-off-script-at-a-rally-in-pennsylvania/?tid=sm_fb

>this dude is completely unhinged
>team hillary probably hired a psychologist to come up with the
>best way to rattle that cage
>she's playing chess, he's out here playing marbles.
>and btw, anyone who is still supporting trump is a cesspool
>why waste your common sense trying to rationalize with someone
>as dumb as a doornail?
>
>
>https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/10/02/as-news-of-trumps-taxes-broke-he-goes-off-script-at-a-rally-in-pennsylvania/?tid=sm_fb

trump supporters and his surrogates.
its like a bulletproof support- nothing that he says or does
will change their mind.
its like they are all in a cult
and then also people like christie, guiliani and any person who is in office currently or has been in office
these are actually people in government
that sit and tell us that trump is a genius for tax evasion or
its quite ok for him to call a woman fat and 'the worst' and to slut shame
like. just completely fucking amazing

and these people may be your neighbours.

bullshit.
the shit I can't go a couple hours at most without hearing or seeing somewhere, how Trump and Hillary are both equally terrible.

because that's the narrative that can actually get him elected.

there's no way we are watching the same election cycle and
you are wavering between clinton and trump
no way. unless you are a complete idiot.
the third party folk... to be honest i just dont understand them at all
and maybe that's my short-sightedness but i dont think anyone has made a good argument for how voting 3rd party president somehow shakes the political establishment
this does nothing to change the make up of the house and senate
i would understand if these were the mid-term elections.

but alas, all we can do is wait for november.

>trump supporters and his surrogates.
>its like a bulletproof support- nothing that he says or does
>will change their mind.
>its like they are all in a cult

You obviously don't understand American politics. About 95% of American voters have a political party affiliation and very rarely sway from that.
So, no matter how many lies Hillary tells, Bosnia snipers, her calling herself a progressive, TPP, emails, BENGHAZI, her voters are ride or die with her.




>and then also people like christie, guiliani and any person
>who is in office currently or has been in office
>these are actually people in government
>that sit and tell us that trump is a genius for tax evasion or




>its quite ok for him to call a woman fat and 'the worst' and
>to slut shame
>like. just completely fucking amazing
>
>and these people may be your neighbours.


Hillary was a goldwater girl and then came up with SUPERPREDATOR, she even said Obama wasn't very presidential, but it's OK because she apologize and those in office said she didn't really mean it.

not even going to het into the comparisons because while they arent the "same" most people (average america, voter) feel like their life will be the same regardless of who wins.

i think folk need to prepare for a Trump victory. One thing that worries me as a Dem is this record breaking ratings for a debate between a seasoned politician and a blowhard Billionaire.

as the picks get worse our interest in the mockery grows.

shit like that was me scared. Americans love a shit show. You think most of the debate viewers are Hillary supporters or Trump supporters?

most people (average america, voter) feel
>like their life will be the same regardless of who wins.
>

Not Brexit low but don't be surprised at a 10% drop more until he can prove he's not gonna do all the things he says he's gonna do, as far as walls and trade agreements and charging other countries to be in NATO, lol.

Dem 401k's better get ready.

Or you just shooting the shit?

If Obama was like the first thing he's going to do is renegotiate with China, close up our borders, demand or allied countries pay up for our military protection...think the market would react kindly?

https://www.thestreet.com/story/13335121/2/if-donald-trump-was-president-here-s-what-would-happen-to-the-u-s-economy.html

Not gonna go for what Cuban said like the stock market won't exist, but ive got a nice fresh 100 dollar bill (actually no, all you niggas is welchers) that says if he wins by the end of the election week the dow will be down 5-10%. The Economist has been losing their shit over this and the pound hasn't recovered from their own Trump-like move, it actually dropped AGAIN.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/brexit-trigger-news-sends-british-pound-lower-1475463756

I work for a 80 billion dollar financial firm with a footprint in 160 different countries and jurisdictions. Janitorial services tho but ive been wearing one sexy admin down. CELINE'S GONNA GIMMIE THEM SNACKS>

>I work for a 80 billion dollar financial firm with a footprint
>in 160 different countries and jurisdictions. Janitorial
>services tho but ive been wearing one sexy admin down.
>CELINE'S GONNA GIMMIE THEM SNACKS>

>its like they are all in a cult



^^^^^^^^^^^

only he will fix things!!

wtf??
its mindblowing

For a Trump surrogate, the tax thing should be the easiest thing to defend on a common sense basis. But it is a difficult task at the same time because people illogically get up in arms about effective tax rates people pay.

Anyone will take the tax deductions offered to them. You'd be a fool not to deduct mortgage interest or stock losses if you had the opportunity to. Nobody volunteers to give the gov more than they are obligated to.
If he is able to legally not pay taxes, more power to him. It's more an indication of a corrupt tax code than anything else.

This doesn't make him a genius either. It just means he has an accountant who does his taxes each year. Although it does make me wonder about his perceived business acumen. What this a one time loss or did he have huge losses like this often?

The only thing it makes him is a hypocrite when he complains about others tax behavior. Like he cries about companies moving abroad to get favorable tax treatment. Or when he takes a tough stance of carried interest for hedge fund/private equity guys.



>trump supporters and his surrogates.
>its like a bulletproof support- nothing that he says or does
>will change their mind.
>its like they are all in a cult
>and then also people like christie, guiliani and any person
>who is in office currently or has been in office
>these are actually people in government
>that sit and tell us that trump is a genius for tax evasion

there is the point that Clinton is running on a platform that, if enacted, would substantially raise her effective tax rate. Trump is running on a platform that, if enacted, would significantly lower his (even after he works through this billion-dollar writedown).

So while it shouldn't be scandalous that he pays no more than he legally owes, making use of an already-stacked deck, it is problematic that he intends to stack the deck even further in favor of himself and his family.


(Also, I think it's been noted a few times that the Clintons actually HAVE, in many cases, paid more in taxes than they were legally required to pay, mainly by not claiming deductions that they were legally entitled to. Sometimes people do this out of convenience or laziness. Politicians often do it, though, to intentionally raise their effective tax rate and avoid the kind of scandal that Trump is facing.)

its not genius tho...

but its how the rich stay rich.

no one, even the ny times is saying its illegal
it is morally reprehensible- especially because we dont know exactly what this 917m consists of
and what his personal income actually was.
if it was mainly business write-offs and deductibles etc
but that he actually made e.g. 50 mill, then its just morally repugnant
and i wouldnt be surprised if it was
also, if he's been doing this for 18 years just because he can
he's been hypocritical for bringing up any criticism about anyone's tax rate.

but the main thing i should have noted though
is that the reason he got this break is that he lost close to a billion dollars in one year
that more than anything shows what a shitty business man he is
and then, because he has no moral culpability
he's spent years profiting from that at the expense of poor middle class people
who pay taxes to keep the lights on

How many hundred million dollar businesses went belly up within the last two years?

Here in Texas alone DOZENS

this is the land of oil & gas exploration
Companies that were worth $300M in 2014 are no longer in existence today.
Bad business practices?
Or just the market turned on them?
$2 gasoline will do that to you.

But, it's business.

You want to harp on he lost a billion, but he made 15billion and is still in business with thousands of ppl still HAPPY to be on his payroll.

When it comes time to pay your rent, you don't give a fuck if the person that owns the company and signs your check got a $900M tax write off
All you care about is if that check he signs will bounce or not
That's it
That's all

...lost nearly a billion in that year alone. I'm guessing it wasn't the first and wasn't the last. All business-people take losses, but he's running for the highest office in the land based on the idea that he NEVER takes losses and his infallible business acumen is what's going to save the country. In what should be a shock to no one, that's looking pretty damn hollow now.

>...lost nearly a billion in that year alone. I'm guessing it
>wasn't the first and wasn't the last. All business-people take
>losses, but he's running for the highest office in the land
>based on the idea that he NEVER takes losses and his
>infallible business acumen is what's going to save the
>country. In what should be a shock to no one, that's looking
>pretty damn hollow now.


Get's it^^^^^^^

while Trump losing a Billion seems like a huge loss that's nothing...

Our govt officials lose Billions daily...

>while Trump losing a Billion seems like a huge loss that's
>nothing...
>
>Our govt officials lose Billions daily...


They not running for President....And they r not running on their business acumen and claiming that not paying taxes makes them smart....

That's Trump.....

>while Trump losing a Billion seems like a huge loss that's
>nothing...
>
>Our govt officials lose Billions daily...

But Trump's whole MO for running is that he's better at doing business than the government. HE knows what he's doing. HE doesn't make bad deals. HE's worth billions. HE's the only that can save the country.

If he's losing money just like them on an annual basis, and isn't even bringing in nearly the amount that he says he does, then he really isn't special at all. If he's just as bad at this as everyone else, then the whole argument for him running is moot.

>But Trump's whole MO for running is that he's better at doing
>business than the government. HE knows what he's doing. HE
>doesn't make bad deals. HE's worth billions. HE's the only
>that can save the country.
>
>If he's losing money just like them on an annual basis, and
>isn't even bringing in nearly the amount that he says he does,
>then he really isn't special at all. If he's just as bad at
>this as everyone else, then the whole argument for him running
>is moot.


Not only THAT^^^^, but Trump lost 1 billion dollars during an economic UPSWING...lol....This was a time when businesses were flourishing and the national economic outlook was high....

And he lost money on one of the surest bets: The CASINO game.....It's damn near impossible to lose money on the gambling industry....

more than likely he lost on a big ass deal and swooped back around to buy it for pennies on the dollar.

while we like to point out Trump for filing bankrupt it's the american way of doing business. People on here actually thought 50 cent was broke when he filed for bankruptcy.

About the only thing he's successful at selling is himself and his brand. For a chunk of the other business ventures? Not so much.

>while we like to point out Trump for filing bankrupt it's the
>american way of doing business. People on here actually
>thought 50 cent was broke when he filed for bankruptcy.

And again, this is really missing the point. He doesn't say he's just anybody and do business like everybody else. He's selling himself as the business genius who's the only one who can "save" the country. But if he's just like every other business man, with about as many losses as wins, than what makes him more qualified than anyone else?

and we are all debating past fuck ups that prove they can't.

Even the ones who started off as businessmen. So they have at least some track record to prove or disprove their ability to lead in the political arena.

Trump has never held elected office of any kind. All he's got is his business experience. And if the only business he's good as selling himself, and otherwise completely mediocre, then why should anyone believe that he can actually run the country at its highest level?

>Even the ones who started off as businessmen. So they have at
>least some track record to prove or disprove their ability to
>lead in the political arena.
>
>Trump has never held elected office of any kind. All he's got
>is his business experience. And if the only business he's good
>as selling himself, and otherwise completely mediocre, then
>why should anyone believe that he can actually run the country
>at its highest level?

Cut, Print....

Dude took a bath in FOUR of his businesses that year.....And the only reason he survived was because of tax loopholes....

It's more of an indictment on his self proclaimed reputation as a business genius than anything else. And since he's leaning on his business rep HEAVY by claiming he's smarter than the government and that he can tackle America's economic stagnation, u can figure out the rest...

.

She's wasn't losing $1 billion dollars....That much is known....

prolly ended up costing "US" more than a Billion.

yeah, i went there...

but fuck it, why not. Yall out here mad at Trump over taxes and fat pagaent winners but when folk talk about super predators and destroying Black families...

crickets*

"she apologized tho!!!"

Poppin!!!!

Oh...u mean the same crime bill that damn near every black leader was behind? The same crime bill that black community leaders were pushing the Clinton administration to enact (high crime rates...murder rates through the roof through the big urban cities...)

It's not enough to bring up that crime bill, which would end up cutting down crime, but at the expense of black folk, on some U SEE WHAT HER HUSBAND DID AND WHAT SHE SUPPORTED!!!!!????

That crime bill was VERY popular. So popular in fact that Captain Progressive himself, Bernie Sanders, supported it....

But maybe u will accept a breakdown coming from someone else instead of me....Catch...From Mother Jones......

"There are two big problems here. First, the 1994 crime bill was supported by most black leaders at the time.1 It was addressing a real problem, and no one at the time knew that violent crime was already starting a historic two-decade drop. Despite that, both Bill and Hillary Clinton now acknowledge that the crime bill was flawed, especially the carceral aspects.

I don't imagine this is an argument that's ever going to be resolved, but for all the bill's faults, I think it's (a) unfair to use hindsight and hyperbole ("most immoral in American history") to vilify the actions of people 20 years ago who had legitimate reasons to think they were in the middle of a huge social problem, and (b) even more unfair to suggest the bill was central to the problem of mass incarceration. The vast majority of the carceral state had been put in place long before."

link: http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/01/take-it-easy-hillary-clinton-and-1994-crime-bill

And this nugget from NBC News:

"But if Bill and Hillary Clinton were the pot, black politicians, activists, and pastors were the kettle. Their support of punitive measures actually paved the way for Clinton. It began with the man Ebony Magazine called the "front-line general in the war on drugs.

The Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 contained an expansion of the federal death penalty to include drug offenses, the "Three Strikes, You're Out" rule, and billions in funding for police, prisons, and states that made it harder for people to get parole (though Mr. Clinton neglected to mention this when he mentioned that most prisoners are incarcerated by the state).



"Public enemy number one in the United States is drug abuse. In order to fight and defeat this enemy, it is necessary to wage a new, all-out offensive," the Harlem Democrat Charlie Rangel can be heard saying in words that Nixon would later mimic.

Rangel opposed drug legalization and embraced police militarization. He stood proudly by Nancy as President Ronald Reagan signed another drug-war law. Curiously, Rangel was among the 11 Congressional Black Caucus members who voted against Clinton's Crime Bill, which did not lack of black support. In addition to the dozens of pastors who signed a letter in support of the bill, it also had the support of black mayors. Kurt Schmoke, the first elected black mayor of Baltimore, was a vigorous supporter. Even then U.S. Representative Kweisi Mfume, then chairman of the Congressional Black Caucus (CBC) who understood the bill was a means to "find better ways to incarcerate people" eventually buckled, not only supporting the bill, but was ultimately responsible for its passage by rallying a majority of CBC members to vote for it after the bill was nearly derailed on a procedural issue.

The Clintons quite likely were motivated by political expediency -- appealing to white voters with "tough on crime" measures; however it is clear black leaders were simply desperate to rid communities of the gang violence terrorizing their communities. The crime wave was real with rapes, assaults, and murders at never before seen levels, especially in inner-cities."

>
>
>Oh...u mean the same crime bill that damn near every black
>leader was behind?
>


Boy oh boy
Ain't nothing worse than a nigga that'll tap dance and sell his own ppl out for his white massa.
You show is good to us bawse

>Boy oh boy
>Ain't nothing worse than a nigga that'll tap dance and sell
>his own ppl out for his white massa.
>You show is good to us bawse


word

http://www.nytimes.com/1998/04/19/business/spending-it-it-takes-a-president-to-overpay-the-irs.html

http://www.npr.org/2016/08/12/489776309/in-an-effort-to-pressure-trump-clinton-releases-tax-rate

I guess it might be a smart move politically to get that effective tax rate up to high level. Especially if you're about to run for president and you just saw how the press ate Romney alive on that point.

But on every other dimension, it's dumb. Take those deductions and give them to charity if you want to just hand money away.
That's what the deductions are there for. To encourage behavior

.

Sure.

Did you forget that the Clintons have perpetually been in elections?

and this only what we know.
he must've really needed that apprentice show to launch a comeback.

1995 and 1990
sheit, his only luck is that nyc real estate has gone up exponentially
and his father bought cheap and bought early.
otherwise, i doubt this dude could even run a taco truck, without having to seek bankrupcy

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/10/3/1577235/-Donald-Trump-lost-a-billion-twice-because-he-s-a-genius?detail=facebook

for all the reason you just listed...only insane folks are voting trump....yes theres that many insane folk in amerikka...but he aint winning shit...it will be a blowout...fk what a media poll tells you..they jus need a story pre election..


>trump supporters and his surrogates.
>its like a bulletproof support- nothing that he says or does
>will change their mind.
>its like they are all in a cult
>and then also people like christie, guiliani and any person
>who is in office currently or has been in office
>these are actually people in government
>that sit and tell us that trump is a genius for tax evasion or
>
>its quite ok for him to call a woman fat and 'the worst' and
>to slut shame
>like. just completely fucking amazing
>
>and these people may be your neighbours.
>
>

and they pretty much nailed this one as well

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nQGBZQrtT0


I'm a little worried about what Assange is going to release this week but seems momentum is all hers right now.

Yeah...this dude def. needs some meds....This is what he said about the rising epidemic of military veterans committing suicide this morning to a group of vets during a discussion on national security. He basically called them weak. Again, you can't make this shit up.

--

Trump on vet suicide:

“They see things…a lot of folks in this room see and you’re strong and you can handle it, but some people can’t handle it....”

i dont think this man has a brain
either that or upenn is a shitty excuse of a college if this is what they graduate
(well deejboran is speciment #2 so maybe there's something to be said)

so transcripts and tax returns. i need some receipts
this is olympics level stupidity

.

I'm sorry but I really dont see an issue with this statement.

I know politics is all about spin but the shit sounds accurate to me.

some people cant handle the things they see in war. Its the truth.

thats all i will say about that...

Over donations he received for vets. News is just hitting. Story developing...Katy Tur putting in work.....

Crazy....

where do the Koch Brothers side with Trump? Curious how they feel about dude since they back the Tea Party years ago.

>where do the Koch Brothers side with Trump? Curious how they
>feel about dude since they back the Tea Party years ago.


Koch brothers r not backing Trump. They loathe him...They are putting their money behind the congressional races for the GOP....

At least that's what they said back in August.

Bill, the Koch brother who doesn't get along with the others (he's the fraternal twin of Charles, I believe), held fundraisers for Trump.

I doubt Charles and David are sitting the entire election out, and are probably dumping millions into their preferred senate candidates as we speak.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/trumps-campaign-manager-kellyanne-conway-229027

Donald Trump’s campaign manager Kellyanne Conway will emerge from the 2016 campaign as a winner, regardless of the result on Election Day, thanks to her unique relationships with a succession of overlapping committees and mega-donors.

As Conway’s profile has soared during the 2016 campaign, her small Washington-based polling firm has collected nearly $1.9 million and counting in fees from federally registered political campaign committees — more than twice as much as in any prior election, according to a POLITICO analysis of Federal Election Commission filings.

Yet her firm’s work for Trump’s presidential campaign and a supportive super PAC that had previously backed Ted Cruz’s rival campaign for the GOP nomination has raised eyebrows among Republicans who have worked with the veteran pollster.

They suggest that her firm’s lucrative 2016 portfolio undermines Trump’s anti-big-money messaging, while raising questions about the depth of Conway’s loyalty to Trump, not to mention his campaign’s efforts to adhere to complicated election rules prohibiting coordination between super PACs and campaigns.

Conway told POLITICO that her firm, which is called The Polling Company, has “separate staffs” that worked on the campaign and super PAC accounts, and that “we have a firewall” between them. Additionally, she said “I have never been inside the PAC firewall and have done no work for this PAC.”

She did, however, serve as president of the PAC under its previous incarnation as a pro-Cruz vehicle called Keep the Promise I during the Texas senator’s bitter primary battle against Trump, but she said she "resigned in writing from KTPI in June, having previously expressed my intention to not manage the newly forming PAC."

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/trumps-campaign-manager-kellyanne-conway-229027#ixzz4M2xl73lA
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook


man... this isn't anything but a money grab. GOP isn't trying to win the WH. They are out here bullshitting while taking their voters donations.

Losers trying to still make it in politics like Guiliani and Christie are a WRAP if Trump loses, this is their hail mary.

Everyone else focused on PR and behind the scenes management? The paper is gonna roll in. Jeffrey Lord, Kayleigh McEnany, etc...

Why would you NOT hire them; they are great at what they do.

Conway six months ago was going IN on Trump, only reason she's with him is for the profile and basically free press for her services. God bless her if she finds a way to sleep at night

Can't keep up with Trump's bullshit....

----
CNBC
NY attorney general sends cease and desist order to Trump Foundation
Jacob Pramuk | @jacobpramuk

The New York attorney general's office on Monday ordered Donald Trump's charitable foundation to stop raising money in the state because it does not have the proper certification.

The cease and desist order obtained by NBC News also asks the Donald J. Trump Foundation to send any delinquent financial reports to Attorney General Eric Schneiderman's office within 15 days. It is dated Sept. 30.

Schneiderman's office opened a probe into the Republican presidential candidate's foundation last month as multiple Washington Post reports raised questions about how it used its funds. The newspaper first reported that the foundation, which has raised money from donors outside the Trump family for years, did not have the certification to do so. It also found that Trump used the foundation's money to settle legal issues for his for-profit businesses and to buy paintings of himself.

"When evidence of clear misconduct is brought to our attention, we take action," an attorney general's office spokesman told NBC News.

Trump campaign spokeswoman Hope Hicks said in a statement that it is concerned with the "political motivations" behind the investigation, as Schneiderman is a Democrat.

NY AG: Trump foundation not properly certified NY AG: Trump foundation not properly certified
2 Hours Ago | 02:35
The New York attorney general's office on Monday ordered Donald Trump's charitable foundation to stop raising money in the state because it does not have the proper certification.

The cease and desist order obtained by NBC News also asks the Donald J. Trump Foundation to send any delinquent financial reports to Attorney General Eric Schneiderman's office within 15 days. It is dated Sept. 30.

Schneiderman's office opened a probe into the Republican presidential candidate's foundation last month as multiple Washington Post reports raised questions about how it used its funds. The newspaper first reported that the foundation, which has raised money from donors outside the Trump family for years, did not have the certification to do so. It also found that Trump used the foundation's money to settle legal issues for his for-profit businesses and to buy paintings of himself.

"When evidence of clear misconduct is brought to our attention, we take action," an attorney general's office spokesman told NBC News.

Trump campaign spokeswoman Hope Hicks said in a statement that it is concerned with the "political motivations" behind the investigation, as Schneiderman is a Democrat.


"The Trump Foundation nevertheless intends to cooperate fully with the investigation. Because this is an ongoing legal matter, the Trump Foundation will not comment further at this time," she said.

The Post reported that the Trump Foundation raised more than $25,000 from outsiders in each of the past 10 years. Earlier this year, he raised $1.7 million for a veterans event and directed web donations to the Trump Foundation.

Trump and his Democratic rival Hillary Clinton have accused one another of using charitable foundations for personal enrichment. Clinton's family has said it will change how it operates should Hillary Clinton get elected president because of potential conflicts of interest.

link: http://www.cnbc.com/2016/10/03/ny-attorney-general-sends-cease-and-desist-order-to-trump-foundation.html

quick, republicans!
how about you set up a committee!
we've seen how fast you set these up
at last count was it seven separate committees to look at emails?
how about this? http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/10/03/art-of-the-steal-this-is-how-trump-lost-916m-and-avoided-tax.html?source=TDB&via=FB_Page

I sincerely thought ol girl from NPR was gonna choke that Moore guy the fuck out.

The new rules on Trump Surrogates was pretty scary..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEsP4_1ImUI

Which is why he had that sly smile on his face after the end of those exchanges.

You don't let the 'opponent' put out a solid point, you overtalk them, throw out a strawman, or completely change the subject into a Trump 'positive'

Its the basic rulebook for all the trump talking heads on cable news.



>I sincerely thought ol girl from NPR was gonna choke that
>Moore guy the fuck out.
>
>The new rules on Trump Surrogates was pretty scary..
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEsP4_1ImUI

but still
i expected her to be on that list of surrogates, esp as his campaign manager
she is especially egregious and vile.


she makes me physically sick

I know he threw Mayor Rudy in there, but not Chris Christie, or Palin, or Doc Ben, and he had Conway on last week or the week before.

>I sincerely thought ol girl from NPR was gonna choke that
>Moore guy the fuck out.
>

I wish someone would


>The new rules on Trump Surrogates was pretty scary..
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEsP4_1ImUI

no doubt

Because it’s easy to get lost in the banality and stupidity of trump’s cesspool
That as sowhat once said, ‘its making forget to be excited about the first woman president
(paraphrasing, but something of the sort)

so I want to talk about the things that excite me about hillary’s platform
this is not in any order, I don’t think)

1. Paid family and medical leave. So that America can stop being only one of two countries that does not guarantee a new mother who has just had a baby, paid maternity leave. (the other country is papua new guinea. Think about that for a moment). Her proposal is 12 weeks maternity leave. This is incredibly important- I know many women who have to make the difficult decision about returning to work as soon as they have had a baby.
2. Early childhood education and affordable child-care. Putting more money into early childcare programs..Again, critically important for women and families in general.
3. Improving k-12 programs. We really need to talk about the education system in America- (and I really don’t think it should remain a state-level responsibility because… texas.. but this is a fight that probably cant be won). But on a federal level, there are things that can be done to ensure kids have equitable education. No child left behind left many children behind- and I’m not a fan of charter schools as the alternative because there’s a public school system that for a majority of poor kids – this is their only option. Definitely doing more to make sure public schools work. (and at high school level as well) is necessary and critical. my family learned the hard way that you cant assume that just because you take your kid to the neighbourhood school they are actually going to learn.
4. Criminal justice reform; apart from acknowledging implicit bias within police departments and laying out policies to try and address this,and limiting access of military grade weapons to the police depts; there’s reform of mandatory minimum sentencing and making any changes to the drug sentencing laws retroactive, ending privatization of prisons – (this needs to happen at the state level too) - the feds are doing it at the federal level- we need to ensure that this continues after Obama leaves office. and looking for ways to extend it to states. i was just reading the other day (guardian, i think) just how bad food quality has become in prisons... because- well private for profit
5. Action on climate change (this might be number 1 for me, tbh). E.g.we never talk about methane emissions- we can't talk about CO2 and not talk about CH4. I obviously don’t think these policy prescriptions go far - we should be setting targets to eliminate the use of coal, not ‘clean coal’, and talking about use of nuclear energy – including investment in research on how to deal with nuclear waste, not just better CO2 sequestering
6.Fixing the problems inherent in ACA and moving toward universal health care. I think this is going to become a necessity- the govt will have to move into insurance markets that don’t have or have few exchanges- and also with the expansion of Medicaid, I see this happening in the next few years, by necessity. Also, ending the stupid hyde amendment that disallows federal funding for abortion- it discriminates against a woman’s right to privacy as enshrined by roe v wade.
7. Student debt. *looks at student loans balance*. Weeps. Nuff said
8. Fair tax – we’ve already talked bout this- but her tax policies have been rated the most comprehensible and will do the most at a) simplifying the tax code 2)close the loopholes- i.e. making the sure the poor are not paying more than their fair share while the reach are using loopholes to avoid paying taxes. i would love to see an income tax break for families just getting out from under the poverty line (in addition to increasing the poverty rate- its not livable as is). but i think this would allow such families to at least start to make decisions about moving to better housing etc., without being knocked down because taxes kick in immediately- and this is one thing that disincentivizes work. in general, welfare re-reform, tbh and this time taking the states out of it. there's too much disparity in benefits and most stakes don't use their block grants on poverty alleviation programs (e.g. job trainings) because they dont have to.
9. Campaign finance reform. Repeal that stupid citizen’s united
10.Expanding background checks for gun buyers, laws to prevent domestic abusers from being able to buy guns.
I’m obviously on the extreme end of this- in that I don’t think the 2nd amendment is off the table, so to me i don’t think even this goes far enough. E.g. definitely reviewing the kinds of guns that are in individual’s hands. (I personally think guns for sport/hunting, yes. Anything else, no and not especially guns that can fire hundreds of rounds in minutes.). and those stupid open-carry laws – seriously, the supreme court decision that revised the 2nd amendment to extend it to individuals made a huge mistake.

these are the things im excited about! what are yours?

snd sheit, with clinton in office i dont have to worry about lgbtq rights- shit we might even start talking about trans rights (the final frontier), or roe v wade, or defunding planned parenthood

its not tiring?
the same rehashed talking points?
the conclusion to the trump week is stupidity knows no bounds
talking about it over and over again doesnt change that.

ugh

So today he says something to the effect of Hillary probably not being faithful to Bill. And his surrogates saying 'I wish he stuck to the issues....he keeps shooting himself in the foot'.\

No.

Those statements are WHY he has found success. They are not his 'undoing'. They may not win him the presidency.....but without them he wouldn't have even been a glitch in the GOP candidacy.

What is stoking my fear again....is that the EXACT qualities of Trump that are perceived to be his weakness are, in fact, his strength or source of success. And noone seems to be able to wrap their heads around that. Except him.

and the reason his surrogates and the media cant understand it is because they dont unserstand that voting base.

a lot of bigoted people say the shit Trump says every time Hillary is on their TV.

my fear is the ratings for the last debate were the highest ever...

maube it was just to see Trump crash and burn but I have a feeling a lot of Americans tuned im hoping to see Trump call Hillary all types of political bitches and hoes.

Notice how he closed everything up in those two weeks where he aint say crazy shit and Hillary caught the flu.

Shit talking/off the cuff comments got him to the end of the race...but it's not enough to push him across the finish line. His base LOVES it, his base brought him there, but he needs to reach out to at some people outside of his base to lock it up...and that's his problem

>So today he says something to the effect of Hillary probably
>not being faithful to Bill. And his surrogates saying 'I wish
>he stuck to the issues....he keeps shooting himself in the
>foot'.\
>
>No.
>
>Those statements are WHY he has found success. They are not
>his 'undoing'. They may not win him the presidency.....but
>without them he wouldn't have even been a glitch in the GOP
>candidacy.
>
>What is stoking my fear again....is that the EXACT qualities
>of Trump that are perceived to be his weakness are, in fact,
>his strength or source of success. And noone seems to be able
>to wrap their heads around that. Except him.

i dont see how 2 weeks of silence or playing nice for the cameras for a few days can convince anyone Trump isnt Trump.

dude has way too much tape out there to pivot and play like he isnt fucking looney tunes.

yall keep saying he needs this that and a third but all he really needs to do is win a few swing states. Thats it.

Its really going to come down to who they arent polling and if they show up 2 to 1 for Trump in those states its a wrap.

>>yall keep saying he needs this that and a third but all he really needs to do is win a few swing states. Thats it.

Its really going to come down to who they arent polling and if they show up 2 to 1 for Trump in those states its a wrap.

It makes it alot harder to justify voting for Trump as a change to the status quo when he's gone completely off the plantation. The proof is in the pudding...August it was still 'Hilary got this' in the polls.

He shut the fuck up for September and suddenly all the pundits were like, 'Oh shit'.

Him 'losing' the debate didn't make a difference to his polling...him arguing with beauty queens, sending late night tweets...etc is why he's polling lower.

If he just shuts the fuck up and ride the wave it would improve his chances immensely imho. His off the cuff bars aren't as effective on the national stage, he needs to work on his pre-writtens!

but iont see how not spitting a few bars for a few days somehow makes the race closer.

Thats bullshit...

I think anyone voting for Trump or thinking about it aint going to change regardless of how these polls move.

who are these people who were for Trump but NOW after he said Ms. Universe in 1995 came to their senses?

what I'm saying is when Teump shuts up and closes the gap... thats the real poll numbers.

The people who claim they no longer can vote for him are lying like shit...

Murph likes to point to Obama trailing McCain and Palin after thr first debate. Man, they just polled the wrong people... aint no way people decided late they would vote for Obama.

Hilldawg should win a close one... but honestly, shit shoildnt even be close. She should win Texas when you put Trump and Hilldawg side by side.

>Murph likes to point to Obama trailing McCain and Palin after
>thr first debate. Man, they just polled the wrong people...
>aint no way people decided late they would vote for Obama.
>
>Hilldawg should win a close one... but honestly, shit shoildnt
>even be close. She should win Texas when you put Trump and
>Hilldawg side by side.

There's no such thing as SHIT SHOULDN'T BE THAT CLOSE in today's polarizing world of politics...In 2016, a 5 to 7 point win is considered a blowout...

Ironically though? If Trump keeps imploding, it may not even be that close....

I recall people were freaking out on this board because Trump was closing the gap in both Colorado and Pennsylvania. In some polls, Trump was even leading by 1 point in Pennsylvania....Now?

Polls just released today:

Monmouth University Poll has Clinton leading Trump by double digits (50-40) in Pennsylvania.

And HillDawg up by 11 in Colorado (49-38)...That's back around to Clinton's pre pneumonia tracking.....

Like I said, Trump's peeps are going to turn out for him no matter what....They will run through a wall for him. It's the very same reason Ohio has tilted his way (It's one of the only states Trump has been rising because of that heavily non college educated white population)....

But yeah, this is an interesting race....

I believe the polls indicated a vote to remain but a number of precincts went the opposite way.

I hold on to the idea that the Brexit vote was supposed to be close so maybe there was enough of a blip plus the margin of error to push the result in an unexpected direction.

However, I do wonder how much polling reflects people who don't want to admit they're voting for Trump, so give Clinton the nod when asked.

But they'll say out loud again, when they're with their close associates and friends...

One thing I do console myself with is that privilege allows whites more time to be vocal on TV and online about their choices. They can have nothing better to do and not worry about losing ground. Minorities and those working hard for social justice have more on their plate that precludes an abundance of time spent regurgitating already debunked talking points as if they're fresh manna from heaven.

I believe in the electoral map....Even more than the polls.....That's all I got at this point...

His polls are dwindling and his opponents are going up....It's not working....Well, it is working with his base. THEY LOVE THAT SHIT...

But the new battle ground/state polls coming out show that he has to make that primary jump. The newest one from today: Franklin & Marshall College Poll that just a few weeks ago had Clinton only up by 1-2 points now has her up 47 percent to Trump's 38 percent in Pennsylvania....

My hope is Trump continues to stay on that un-Presidential cheap shot tour....But Clinton should keep that SWAG level to 0....She needs to start telling voters WHY she is the better candidate than Trump beyond dude being a con artist.....

I'm more interested in the phenomenon of Trump at this point. I'll attempt an analogy here:

Suppose some regular looking guy named 'Joe' all of a sudden started breaking records in the 100 meter dash. But he has a really irregular gait....like he's limping or something. But he goes on to beat Usain Bolt, beat everyone to the astonishment of all. And then the pundits say 'Imagine if he can get rid of the irregular limp while he's running? Then he could REALLY do well'. At what point in time do people start to consider that it's actually the limp itself that is the explanation for his unforeseeable success?

That is basically what I'm seeing with Trump. For him to stop acting crazy and say crazy things makes him like everybody else. Why would he do that? The crazy has been the only reason he's succeeding.

“ race riots on our streets on a monthly basis. Somebody said don’t call them race riots, but that’s what they are. They’re race riots. And it’s happening more and more.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/10/03/trump-says-race-riots-are-happening-every-month/

this is exactly how most white people feel when seeing BLM in the streets.

Kaepernick is a gotdamn terrorist

Seattle WR is getting death threats for his opinion on police brutality

Hell, even on OKP Occupy Wall St. was shitted on by a nice amount of folk

Obama is a divider...

its crazy

>this is exactly how most white people feel when seeing BLM in
>the streets.
>
>Kaepernick is a gotdamn terrorist
>
>Seattle WR is getting death threats for his opinion on police
>brutality
>
>Hell, even on OKP Occupy Wall St. was shitted on by a nice
>amount of folk
>
>Obama is a divider...
>
>its crazy



^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

What the other ethnic group involved in these race riots?
I guess because black people are involved it makes it a race riot. It would just be a riot otherwise.

this shit aint new...

And the more she bashes Trump, the hotter she gets to me.

Repubs definitely got the better looking political pundits.

>And the more she bashes Trump, the hotter she gets to me.
>
>Repubs definitely got the better looking political pundits.


I don't know, dog....Angela Rye pretty damn fine....

I was saying month's ago that she's who I would have gone after if I was Russel Wilson, instead of Cece.

Its just Nicole is on tv alot more so my affinity is fed more.

i've been watching for a few years nuh!

https://youtu.be/WDKBBA_nwqc

Old dude won't let this Trump surrogate off the hook for shit haha. Can we get Bob Schieffer to moderate a debate?

When he said, "If that's the best you can do" I almost choked on my coffee.

Debates seem like they will only help Clinton.

Polling is moving in one direction.

If this course remains steady.....

Unless this pops

https://twitter.com/danney_williams/status/783319240665403392


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"