Or is that antiquated patriarchy that's inappropriate for any age?

I just saw a kid that looked to be between ten and twelve full on bawling (he had fallen on some ice...nothing appeared to be bleeding or broken) and my first instinct was to tell him to man up.

I didn't. But his Mom didn't appear to either. And I kinda judged her for it.

I always tell my boy it is okay to cry when you are sad or when you get hurt. But dont fucking whine. At some point when they get hurt it turns to I am no longer hurt but want attention and that is when I say shut up and walk it off. When it is me and the boy he could get hit by a truck and he will get up and walk that shit off before I can help him up. But when mom or grandma is around he slips and falls on carpet and it is sad face and them holding him for 10 minutes.

seems like a legitimate line to draw.

attention seeking crying: bad; crying out of pain/sadness: fine

i really can't argue with it.

***
I'm tryna be better off, not better than...

Alll the damn moisture dry up.

>I always tell my boy it is okay to cry when you are sad or
>when you get hurt. But dont fucking whine. At some point when
>they get hurt it turns to I am no longer hurt but want
>attention and that is when I say shut up and walk it off.

I have no kids of my own, but do have 2 nephews, a niece, and a sister 22 years younger than me. I'm not tolerating the whining or constant crying foolishness.

Oh, and don't even think about acting up in public when I, your nice uncle/big brother, is taking the time to do something nice for you haha. Best believe you will get returned back to your parents very fast.


__
I don't like the beat anymore because its just a loop. ALC didn't FLIP IT ENOUGH!

Flip it enough? Flip these. Flip off. Go flip some f*cking burgers.(c)Kno

Allied State of the National Electric Beat Treaty Organization (NEBTO)

ever.

1. Fighting the urge to treat the boy as I was treated given what I know about the harm it produced.

2. Dealing with judgment from other ppl about my parenting decisions.

3. Constant anxiety about whether I'm making the right parenting decisions.

true, 1 & 3 will happen periodically, but we just have our on groove and things tend to work out. however, number 2 is never an issue. don't care enough about outside judgements, not even the grandparents.


>1. Fighting the urge to treat the boy as I was treated given
>what I know about the harm it produced.
>
>2. Dealing with judgment from other ppl about my parenting
>decisions.
>
>3. Constant anxiety about whether I'm making the right
>parenting decisions.

---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQMVsQW_kjM

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQMVsQW_kjM

this song? I can't give you the source, but I remember him saying that the song was partly aimed at himself. Interesting.

the term man up bc he's crying....sends the wrong message to boys.




I'll tell him to stop being a lil biaaatch.

>the term man up bc he's crying....sends the wrong message to
>boys.
>
>
>
>
>I'll tell him to stop being a lil biaaatch.

>the term man up bc he's crying....sends the wrong message to
>boys.
>
>
>
>
>I'll tell him to stop being a lil biaaatch.

Needless tears and whining, Uncle Cam doesn't play that shit.
I explain that I don't believe their tears and tell them to use all of the great words they know--like a big boy. After that, I just ignore them until they decide to speak.
It works!

One of them is a great negotiator and understands the power of manipulation, so he cries only if he thinks his mother is around and he wants her to hold his hand.

... And that assumes life hasn't told them firsthand to man up by this point.

Obviously depending on what he's crying for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hc45-ptHMxo

My issue with this is that my cousin would tell her son that...at 7. His voice hasn't even changed yet, but she would yell at him for talking "like a baby". He's a little boy!!! When she would do that I would hold my tongue because its not my place to tell her how to raise her son. But, I will admit that some of the things she does, is going to cause issues between them later.

I would say when he's in his teen years.

Like...if you really break your leg, or your best friend dies, doesn't matter if you're 4 or 35...no prob with crying.

But we've ALLLLL been around those little boys who cry harder than girls...ooops, that's me being patriarchal by saying that. But seriously, I don't see it as a problem to tell a little boy to "toughen up" which essentially means "man up" but uses different words. Especially if it seems like he's doing it for attention, which is what a lotta kids do. But in plenty cases, I won't be mad at a kid for crying...sometimes their bruises look PAINFUL.

and maybe that's why you struggle to understand how 'patriarchy' fits in this discussion. b/c it doesn't.

the word you want is probably 'misogyny'. b/c what's being discussed here is more related to a hatred of women/femininity than it's about supremacy of fathers/men.

http://beta.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/patriarchy

Full Definition of patriarchy

plural pa·tri·ar·chies

1
: social organization marked by the supremacy of the father in the clan or family, the legal dependence of wives and children, and the reckoning of descent and inheritance in the male line; broadly : control by men of a disproportionately large share of power

2
: a society or institution organized according to the principles or practices of patriarchy

http://beta.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/misogyny
Definition of misogyny

: a hatred of women

miso·gy·nic play \ˌmi-sə-ˈji-nik, -ˈgī-\ adjective
mi·sog·y·nist play \mə-ˈsä-jə-nist\ noun or adjective
mi·sog·y·nis·tic play \mə-ˌsä-jə-ˈnis-tik\ adjective

OP used it, so I was joking based off of that.

I don't think I've ever said "man up" and I don't think I've said it to him while he was crying.

But if he is whining...nah I'm saying something.

I usually ask him what's bothering him and then explain that it's nothing to cry or fuss over and that he's a big boy.

where does it come from.

and what does it say about not being a man, or people who aren't men.

it's just a load of bullshit.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

So I've always been the same with women I date. If something happens that hurts us equally, I'll try to be the one who doesn't cry or show emotion, just to hold her down. So it might go back to "bullshit gender rules" but I don't think that's a bad thing to guide them to do

that what you were told, shaped the way you see things.

also, have you considered that just because that's what you see, doesn't mean it's the end all be all of how to handle life.

these are just thought experiments.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

Did you just decide that policing people on morals automatically makes you correct from your myopic perspective?

I don't even have any, but I can tell that it's allll case by case.

All I feel is that I saw what I saw, not just from my dad, but from plenty others, and I don't see any problem with having the "toughen up!" mentality....whether it's harmful or neutral.

I think it can be harmful for parents who act like a boy/man should NEVER ever cry...suppressed emotions are never a good thing. And for me, my dad actually never once told me "MAN UP! Stop crying like a little punk!" or anything on that end...I just naturally became that way when I realized that crying in certain situations never lead to anything positive.

if you're saying that you were raised in a way that doesn't include that phrasing.

it seems like you think the discussion is about something that it's not.



www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

is tough, just as most gender role type discussions are. Then, I describe how I personally operate and the way that I was raised, which doesn't at all mean "this is how it SHOULD be," but just "this is how I'll be when I'm raising mine...since there is no right or wrong way."

I don't think I'm crying if I break my leg. Emotional stuff sure.

I think the trick is to allow yourself space to cry for emotional reasons, but be able to tough through almost any pain if/when it's needed. That's the gendering part to me. A man persists through chaos.

>I think the trick is to allow yourself space to cry for
>emotional reasons, but be able to tough through almost any
>pain if/when it's needed. That's the gendering part to me. A
>man persists through chaos.

Like when you see athletes who break shit, some of them will have tears run, but it won't be like the "wahhhhh" vocal type thing going on, if that makes sense. I don't think I would ever cry to where I'm mumbling and shit due to pain, but could probably see that happening off of something emotional.

I had a tooth pulled without anesthesia and screamed the whole way through for 30-45 minutes.

My friend had one done WITH anesthesia and she said that was MUCH worse than giving birth to twins.

I'd volunteer to have my finger twisted with pliars, broken in two pieces and pulled out the socket just as quickly as I would a tooth again.

There's a level of pain that will make you cry and scream involuntarily.

ive had several teeth pulled (all wisdoms as an adult and others as a child for braces) and no meds seems like a horrible idea

so i would have had to wait months for another appointment.

.

Anyway you're demonstrably wrong. Monks can self-immolate in a state of meditation without crying out.

we know about monks. if you want to talk about you GO.

and if you put your kid in a monastery for 20-50 years to study, yes you can train your child to have a nervous system that does not respond normally to pain.

How can you know that?

Why do you think it would take 20-30 years of meditation to be able to withstand pain without weeping?

Are you sure you understand your own nervous system well enough to make that claim about other people's nervous systems?

Why would you imagine that I, in particular, have a similar pain threshold to you?

Or that I haven't experienced pain on par with your own?

I'd be more careful assuming yourself to be an authority on the experience of others.

>I'd be more careful assuming yourself to be an authority on
>the experience of others.

or had a 500lb piece of machinery fall on your leg and crush it or had a bone yanked out of it's socket without anesthesia and did not cry out in pain.

Your points are way too broad and reckless. They fail basic tests of logic.

You got personal, not me. You proved that you cried once, that's about it. Knowing that you actually did receive anesthesia but experienced enough pain to cry against your will identifies you as a special case, not the norm. There's no reason to think your experience informs you well enough to predict anyone else's here.

If anything one should predict your pain threshold to be extraordinarily low based on the evidence.

To me kids cry for gender neutral reasons, usually greed or fear, and you dont need to make it a gender thing to reason past that.

'We will listen to what you have to say when you use a normal voice'.

It's not as much crying....but whining. I won't say 'man up' or 'toughen up' and I won't even say 'stop crying'.

But I use the term 'normal voice' in someway on an almost daily basis. And I do it with both girls and boys.

Alot of the times.....I'll repeat what they've said in a normal, calm voice and instruct them to say it over again like I said it. Then I'll reward them by genuinely reacting to what they were saying....but not until the whine stops. My daughter was horrible at this at 5....it would often take her 4 or 5 attempts to say it without adding the whiny tone. My current 5 year old usually gets it on the first or second try.

I have a boy and a girl. if its a pain issue, I try to get them to walk it off and get back into whatever they were doing. like my daughter crashed her bike on the track. she cried, I comforted, and she got back on the bike. same with my son when he was pushed down while running track. got him back out there.

for other issues like fear or just not getting their way, I try getting them to explain why their crying and give them other options to expression that emotion, like talking through it. or just find a distraction.

it's hit or miss as nothing works 100% of the time.

3 yr old falls down a set of concrete steps?
cry until your ducts dry out
11 yr old feeling emo because you won't get them a box of pizza rolls?
yea better find a more mature way to articulate that

not too familiar with people telling lil kids to man up
more so ppl telling them to stop being/acting like a baby
crying is ok if it's "legitimate" and not a means of manipulating situations the kid doesn't like

If I had a daughter I'd tell her to woman up. I am a caveman by OKP standards but THANK GOD I don't live or react by OKP standards. lol. Cyse me if you want but I was raised a certain way and it made me the person I am today. I believe in some old-fashioned values and I don't think that "nomenclature" has anything to do behind the lesson. So do I ask my son to "toughen up" at times, hell yes.

Do I give him space to be in his feelings? Yes, but not all damn day.

He is eight and he sees his dad as a role model. We were playing last night and I said "Amir, you are the man!"
he said "No, dad you are. But I will be one one day."
I said "Yes you will good sir!"
We smiled and she smiled with us. No feelings were hurt. No gender lines were broken.

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.
.

really my dude...

But ok I'll entertain that like you actually have never understood the meaning of it. It means to toughen up. But because men are so archaic and mysoginistic we could not think of a better way to phrase it so we put it on an ideal that we thought we were supposed to strive to... being a man.

Since that is a negative way to view things these days, the phrase takes a beating. But anyway....
it means to toughen up.

I know what the inferred meaning is, but after giving a presentation on Gender, Masculinity, and Sexuality to a room full of grown men, my question is valid. The Term Man Up can mean many things, some positive, but most often it's said in a negative context to infer that a man/ male is not being or living up to a stereotype of macho or machismo.


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in today's society its whatever. Anything "masculine" is deemed bad and so there is no point in debate. I have expressed my feeling and it would not be manning up to argue with folk on it. I am who I am, I raise my family how best I, and not society, see fit.

But it's cool.


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.
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>I know what the inferred meaning is, but after giving a
>presentation on Gender, Masculinity, and Sexuality to a room
>full of grown men, my question is valid. The Term Man Up can
>mean many things, some positive, but most often it's said in a
>negative context to infer that a man/ male is not being or
>living up to a stereotype of macho or machismo.

dealing with young Black men. Because psychologically so many young Black males see masculinity as physical dominance and stunted emotional growth.

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If he has a problem, issue or complaint I tell him he needs to explain it like a big boy/man, instead of through whining and crying. Started with him around age 3 or 4.

Note: I never tell him to stop crying, I just don't acknowledge it.

before they're this guy.

back in the 90s when I was going to Warriors games with my then-boyfriend, once during a half time, I was waiting outside the men's bathroom for my bf when he came out chuckling.

I asked what was funny in the men's bathroom

he said that, in that stadium, the urinal was a bigass trough in a circle so all the men stood around it peeing into the trough. There were a bunch of men -- like MEN, like 6 feet tall men, right? -- and this one little boy who was like four years old and wasn't tall enough to pee down into the trough, he was having to aim upwards to make it over the wall and into the trough and he wasn't doing very well and he was crying. My bf said that his dad glared at him and snapped, "Do you see anyone else in here crying?!?!!"

That was a watchword for us through the rest of the relationship. I still laugh when I think about it.

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

and he started balling like a baby. Everyone laughed at him behind his back.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

He would lack the motor skills to handle the ball in a coordinated manner.

but let's not act like certain shit isn't expected of men in our society.

Shouldnt have to wait. Start now before your son turns gay!

To not cry at every fucking thing is lazy parenting and stunting emotional growth.

I mean, I know you're trying to sound smart and progressive but you should at least connect some dots.

insists on being a hip hop gatekeeper. Either reread my reply and the OP and make an attempt to comprehend it or go back to the Lesson.

Cool

use their WORDS to express their emotions instead of tears once they are five or six. It basically comes down to when they have enough language to be able to do that regardless of gender.
The issue with "man up" is it tells a child to suppress their physical reaction and any verbal expression... then niggas don't understand why lil man dying of high blood pressure at 11 years old.

Maleness don't come into it with me.

i can't really argue with it.

but if i hadn't gendered the OP it woulda gone triple wood, so i'm good with it.

depending on the way she communicates her need.

My daughter will whine in such a pathetic way when she either wants something or stubs her toe or any of the above. If she falls she'll look at me and I'll hit her with a simple "You ok?" and that's usually enough for her to just keep it movin if it's something inconsequential.

If she wants assistance or attention, she won't get it until she relaxes and communicates what she needs without the whining. Its at a point now where I can simply look at her or say "HEY!" and she knows to chill on the whining. Not always but often enough it's that simple.

Now, if she genuinely gets hurt and the floodgates are open- if you're a parent you know that particular cry- that's a different story and I'm in full daddy mode.

I'll utilize the same rules with my son, and I refuse to play the "man up" card. I want to raise children who have the tools to tough out hard situations but aren't in fear of breaking some absurd archaic gender assignments that determine what's acceptable. Rather, they should learn how to navigate the world in such a way that they recognize that a. nobody likes a crybaby and won't respond well to that and 2. people are still compassionate and (ideally) will be there when you're dealing with something deathly serious and even if they aren't, my children will be strong enough to pull themselves together.

So if my son or daughter cries, so be it, we'll handle that on a case by case basis but if either of them are a moping, whining attention seeker, they'll learn how fruitless an endeavor that really is.