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Forum nameGeneral Discussion
Topic subjectdo they still teach critical thinking in schools?
Topic URLhttp://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=12905408
12905408, do they still teach critical thinking in schools?
Posted by Mike Jackson, Thu Oct-01-15 01:16 PM
12905409, is it on the test?
Posted by SoWhat, Thu Oct-01-15 01:17 PM
12905410, still?
Posted by Hitokiri, Thu Oct-01-15 01:18 PM
when did they ever?
12905967, you know? this is Murrica. they don't do that.
Posted by Damali, Fri Oct-02-15 10:07 AM
12905411, Doubtful if they do, or if they ever did
Posted by MEAT, Thu Oct-01-15 01:18 PM
The American school system is designed for autonomy.
12905569, ^^^ Pretty much
Posted by Nappy Soul, Thu Oct-01-15 03:25 PM
School is all about conformity and obedience. Critical thinking asks you to make your own observations and conclusions. School is the last place for free thinking.
12906384, I wonder how widespread this principle has become
Posted by Ted Gee Seal, Fri Oct-02-15 09:10 PM
>School is all about conformity and obedience. Critical
>thinking asks you to make your own observations and
>conclusions. School is the last place for free thinking.

I don't remember much in the way of critical thinking lessons at high school, which impairs participation at a tertiary level as well IMO.

Which underlies your point. If one was going to talk worldwide conspiracy, this might be a place to start.
12905414, The Prussian- Industrial model
Posted by MEAT, Thu Oct-01-15 01:19 PM
http://www.thenewamericanacademy.org/index.php/home/our-philosophy-menu/the-prussian-industrial-model

THE PRUSSIAN-INDUSTRIAL MODEL
THE ROOTS OF MODERN PUBLIC SCHOOLING

Horace Mann, credited as the father of the American public school system, studied a wide variety of educational models before implementing the Prussian system designed by Fredrick the Great. King Frederick created a system that was engineered to teach obedience and solidify his control. Focusing on following directions, basic skills, and conformity, he sought to indoctrinate the nation from an early age. Isolating students in rows and teachers in individual classrooms fashioned a strict hierarchy—intentionally fostering fear and loneliness.

Mann chose the Prussian model, with its depersonalized learning and strict hierarchy of power, because it was the cheapest and easiest way to teach literacy on a large scale.

This system was perpetuated throughout the early twentieth century by social efficiency theorists who sought to industrialize the educational process. Led by educators such as Ellwood P. Cubberley, they used education as a tool for social engineering:

“Our schools are, in a sense, factories in which the raw products (children) are to be shaped and fashioned into products to meet the various demands of life.” (Cubberley, 1917)

Building upon the depersonalized uniformity and rigid hierarchy of the Prussian system, they constructed an industrial schooling model designed to produce millions of workers for Americaʼs factories.

Believing that most of America’s students were destined for a life of menial, industrial labor, these theorists created a multi-track educational system meant to sort students from an early age. While the best and brightest were carefully groomed for leadership positions, the majority was relegated to a monotonous education of rote learning and task completion.

Consequently, our schooling system is still locked into the Prussian-industrial framework of fear, isolation, and monotony. For both students and teachers, procedure is emphasized over innovation, uniformity over individual expression, and control over empowerment. It is, therefore, not surprising that the majority of Americaʼs classrooms have changed little in over one hundred years.

For more information on the Prussian-Industrial model see our working paper The Prussian-Industrial History of Public Schooling.
12906368, Much appreciated^
Posted by 3CardMolly, Fri Oct-02-15 07:06 PM
I wonder what is the counter of Prussian education, in other words for parents with children in public and charter schools (especially charter schools) how can a parent or community combat such bs?

Homeschooling is probably a main answer but many parents (esp. single) don't have the time, support or money to do so. I'm gonna go google, but if you know please feel free to share.
12905419, School hardly exposed me to it. Reading did.
Posted by Moonlit_Force, Thu Oct-01-15 01:24 PM
And not much on my assigned reading lists would have led me in that direction (until I went to college).

Luckily, my own interests steered me there before high school.
12905495, Some schools, absolutely.
Posted by Frank Longo, Thu Oct-01-15 02:06 PM
My HS still teaches "Theory of Knowledge."

It's also a requirement on the SAT/ACT essay portion, so it's not like it's been written off entirely.

More schools should make it a point of emphasis, though-- that goes without saying.
12905503, I honestly don't think I learned it until college. The idea of reading
Posted by Buddy_Gilapagos, Thu Oct-01-15 02:12 PM
non-creative works and analysing intent, motivation and external and circumstantial factors influenced what was written isn't something we did much of in high school.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

Movies I need y'all bastids to see so we can discuss:

Five Star - https://goo.gl/jBHbVv
Appropriate Behavior - http://goo.gl/isCzTM
Ma
12905514, Have you seen the comments on Youtube or any other news site?
Posted by Atillah Moor, Thu Oct-01-15 02:20 PM
12905576, ^^^came here to post this.
Posted by DavidHasselhoff, Thu Oct-01-15 03:30 PM
12905597, did they ever?
Posted by RobOne4, Thu Oct-01-15 03:53 PM
I dont remember ever learning it in school. It was my parents who stressed criticial thinking to me.
12905724, This too. I used to get in trouble for questioning teachers.
Posted by MEAT, Thu Oct-01-15 07:36 PM
I can name my good teachers over my life on two hands and still have enormous that fingers to drink a beer with.
12905605, critical thinking and reading comprehension
Posted by monifah, Thu Oct-01-15 03:58 PM
Do they still teach reading comprehension? Having worked in academia for the past 17 years, I'm still amazed at the number of people I encounter on a daily basis who can't follow simple instructions. I'm wondering how some of these people made it out of high school and even got into college. I don't recall ever being that helpless when I was an undergrad.
12906699, That's sadly prevalent in office jobs too
Posted by Mgmt, Sun Oct-04-15 12:21 PM
>Do they still teach reading comprehension? Having worked in
>academia for the past 17 years, I'm still amazed at the number
>of people I encounter on a daily basis who can't follow simple
>instructions. I'm wondering how some of these people made it
>out of high school and even got into college. I don't recall
>ever being that helpless when I was an undergrad.
12906770, My freshman don't know the difference between a book report
Posted by afrogirl_lost, Sun Oct-04-15 07:20 PM
and an essay.
12905723, I choose C
Posted by DJR, Thu Oct-01-15 07:31 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY2mRM4i6tY
12905736, Doubt it, but I think the internet has just made
Posted by Latina212, Thu Oct-01-15 07:56 PM
Younger generations dumb as fuck
I work at a university and the coddle the fuck out of our students
Don't know if it's cause I went to an hbcu and they were harder on us
You can't find my office when there are signs all over the building???
It's just sad
Cause I was way smarter than this
12905741, Never had it, (probably) never will
Posted by Selassie I God, Thu Oct-01-15 08:16 PM
12905745, The current model makes it hard to...
Posted by Starbaby Jones, Thu Oct-01-15 08:22 PM
For even the most exceptional teachers, as well. That's why the entire institution needs to be overhauled.
12905986, we absolutely do here in LA, esp. in my art classroom
Posted by rawsouthpaw, Fri Oct-02-15 10:26 AM
there are quite a few teachers that do so. however there's a lot left out. states where unionized professional teachers are regarded as a threat needing their union rights revoked have glorified test admins as "teachers". provocative curriculum produced with rights-protected autonomy like mine doesn't fly in hostile places like that, such as within market-based charter schools.

Charter principal: "Oh you want to teach and make art on the root causes of the Watts, LA and Ferguson/Baltimore riots? (which I do) Nah art class should be about beautiful things, like painting copies of classic paintings" (which I've seen).
Me: I teach art with social justice at the core.
Charter principal: Yes, but not here. Clean out your classroom. We're hiring a 22 year old compliant Teach For America "teacher"! Yay!
12906350, are you saying that a school district welcomes your approach?
Posted by EMATI, Fri Oct-02-15 06:27 PM
what sort of school or school district or school network welcomes your approach that includes discussion of social justice?
12906370, RE: are you saying that a school district welcomes your approach?
Posted by rawsouthpaw, Fri Oct-02-15 07:24 PM
>what sort of school

ones like mine, which are designed, via mission statement, curriculum, articulated values, partnerships, internships, advocacy campaigns/actions, etc to explicitly address community problems both in and outside of the classroom 24/7. ones that value educational research and not simply anecdotes. schools that promote institutional literacy, student/parent rights, community inclusiveness. a lot of these are responses to spaces that don't value critical thinking. schools that value arts and critical arts instruction/instructors, risk-taking, debate. schools that recognize that teachers are professionals and are treated as such, and are staffed with teachers that assert this in word and action.

>or school district

ones with progressive and influential union leadership and membership so educators have the academic freedom to teach on topics that analyzie, question and even challenge inequities, power relationships, testing plans, etc. school districts in states that haven't assaulted the human right to organize with other workers under collective bargaining. if the teachers aren't grounded and educated on the social justice struggle inherent to the labor movement they are obviously way less likely to connect that tradition to their own work educating youth.


or school network
>welcomes your approach that includes discussion of social
>justice?

Radical educators/networks like
http://iamaneducator.com Jesse Hagopian of Seattle schools (who just struck)

http://dianeravitch.net

https://zinnedproject.org/teaching-materials/explore-by-theme/ Zinn Education Project

http://www.nycore.org NY Collective of Radical Educators
12906355, I think we were referring to a more 'classic' critical thinking.
Posted by denny, Fri Oct-02-15 06:36 PM
Not applied.

Like if x = y and y = z than z = x type of stuff.

At least that's what I was referring to as critical thinking. Or stuff like this:

https://csl.name/post/einsteins-puzzle/

I'd argue that there should be a mandatory class in grade 11 that everyone takes devoted to that kind of problem solving. I take the LSAT once a year. In Canada, they release the LSAT from the previous year. I'm convinced that it's good for my brain.

12906367, There's room for you to add that too of course
Posted by rawsouthpaw, Fri Oct-02-15 07:04 PM
but critical thinking as far as teaching inquiry / analysis is my angle on the open question posted. For example my arts instruction and curriculum is heavily informed by the field of critical media literacy. I'd argue that ought to be within a mandatory class in high school - critical media/culture analysis and production. For my students it basically is.

One broad take on what it encompasses: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_thinking
12906373, I've read my fair share of Dewey and Habermas and the like.
Posted by denny, Fri Oct-02-15 07:38 PM
so I'm familiar with critical theory. I also spent a lot of time studying pragmatism (which is probably the most misunderstood philosophy ever) But critical theory is just as likely to dismantle the arguments of a social justice advocate as it is to support it. I just wanted to clarify that it's a methodology, not an idealogy. I figured you're aware of that. But a critical analysis of a social justice issue may result in advocating a conservative position on a given issue.
12906374, Got it and appreciate that.
Posted by rawsouthpaw, Fri Oct-02-15 07:43 PM
12906572, Plenty of schools do have classes like this.
Posted by Frank Longo, Sat Oct-03-15 04:00 PM
Some have it as standard curriculum junior or senior year (or both).
12905993, I honestly don't remember it until first year university.
Posted by denny, Fri Oct-02-15 10:33 AM
My goal was to attend law school....and preparing for the LSAT was, by far, the biggest investment I ever made into critical thinking. Absolutely invaluable. (I scored in the 96th percentile woo-hoo)

The type of questions that are on the LSAT should be part of every high school's agenda.
12906426, Yup. Same here. Math & Science was the closest thing in HS
Posted by Case_One, Sat Oct-03-15 12:02 AM

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Speaking inspiration to your situations on Instagram @jeromejcase.
12906385, You've been spending too much time on here and facebook again
Posted by Ted Gee Seal, Fri Oct-02-15 09:11 PM
12906571, Hope and Change™ just threatened it even more
Posted by rawsouthpaw, Sat Oct-03-15 03:57 PM
with his appointment of the latest testocracy puppet to lead US Dept of Education, John King, after saluting its retiring tool, Arne Duncan. Duncan proclaimed Katrina was "the best thing that happened to the education system in New Orleans", and 10 years later, the quasi-corporate charter system they forced on the fired/maybe re-hired staff and school families is apparently totally under-educating many thousands of young people.

http://dianeravitch.net/2015/10/03/fyi-what-obama-said-about-duncan

For example in NY:
"King led a series of school reforms that included a new teacher evaluation system using student standardized test scores that critics say is nonsensical (for example, art teachers are evaluated by student math test scores)"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2015/10/02/if-you-thought-arne-duncan-was-controversial-meet-his-successor/
12906697, In schools, yes. Outside of the school, tho? nm
Posted by DVS, Sun Oct-04-15 11:43 AM
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