Want to stop having so many police shootings? Take the guns away from the cops.

http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/luther_elba.gif

And nobody wants to curtail second amendment, so we're back in the same spot.

Best hope: Superman drags our guns into the sun.

That's the most likely scenario.

that arrest record will be with you for life.

they can bring you to the criminal justice system, which has the power to take your property, your freedom, and your life.

cops have plenty of power without guns.


the only thing cops wouldn't have is the power to take your life on the spot. which is not someting cops should be doing anyway, save some pretty extreme circumstances.

somebody running away is not such a circumstance. seeing as it's not hard to call a radio and just catch them later.

so while taking cops guns away would take a lot of politial capital, it's not an unreasonable solution
and would not leave cops without power.



how often do ppl shoot cops anyway?

criminals try to avoid shooting cops, as that draws attention.

cops have very safe jobs.
they don't need guns.
or, most cops don't anyway.

call swat if it's that deep.

>how often do ppl shoot cops anyway?
>


Two cops killed in nyc
Cop killed in memphis
Cop killed in houston
Ppl be shooting at and killing cops frequently


>criminals try to avoid shooting cops, as that draws
>attention.
>


Whet?

>cops have very safe jobs.


Stay off them drugs boy.

most never need to shoot anything and are not in danger.

but the PR machine makes folks think every war veteran stormed
the beaches of normandy.


i don't buy it.

most cops don't need guns.


>
>>how often do ppl shoot cops anyway?
>>
>
>
>Two cops killed in nyc
>Cop killed in memphis
>Cop killed in houston
>Ppl be shooting at and killing cops frequently
>
>
>>criminals try to avoid shooting cops, as that draws
>>attention.
>>
>
>
>Whet?
>
>>cops have very safe jobs.
>
>
>Stay off them drugs boy.
>
>
>
>

but if they didn't have them, people would listen/adhere to them even less.

Cops probably would try to do less bs tho, so i'll give you that.

But then there'd be less people even wanting to be cops.

Not sure that cycle benefits law abiding citizens.

ppl adhere to cops to an alarming degree.

ppl usually do whatever they say, neglecting to exercise their constitutional rights.

the media sucks cops off on the daily.



and even if ppl don't comply with an officer, death should not be the penalty.

that's what court is for.


if you took cops guns away,
most cops would not miss them.


again, it's not an unreasonable solution.

other countries have done it.


>but if they didn't have them, people would listen/adhere to
>them even less.
>
>Cops probably would try to do less bs tho, so i'll give you
>that.
>
>But then there'd be less people even wanting to be cops.
>
>Not sure that cycle benefits law abiding citizens.

Cops don't need guns to deal with the majority of citizens. And they don't use them (use=take them out) the majority of time.

Cops do need guns when they are dealing with criminals that have guns.

If you take away officer's guns

1)you'd have less people willing to be cops (which you might consider a good thing)
2)the power that officers have would greatly diminish(which you might consider a good thing)

You keep bringing up points that i'm not even arguing against so miss me with...

>ppl adhere to cops to an alarming degree.

ppl usually do whatever they say, neglecting to exercise their constitutional rights.

the media sucks cops off on the daily.



and even if ppl don't comply with an officer, death should not be the penalty.

that's what court is for.

What countries btw are you referring to where the police don't have guns, but gun ownership and gun related homicides in the public are high?

>What countries btw are you referring to where the police don't
>have guns, but gun ownership and gun related homicides in the
>public are high?
>


there are countries where the police don't carry guns.

and i have seen no evidence that
giving every cop a gun reduces gun violence.

so maybe we can talk about the possibility of not arming every single cop to the teeth.

it's not an unreasonable idea

because, clearly, ppl can be policed without every single cop having a gun.

it's worth looking at, don't you think?

>>What countries btw are you referring to where the police don't
>have guns, but gun ownership and gun related homicides in the
>public are high?

bc i don't see why you are comparing those countries to the US where gun ownership and gun related homicides are high.

>bc i don't see why you are comparing those countries to the US
>where gun ownership and gun related homicides are high.


can't be.
just throw the discussion out the window.

damn liberal hippie.

cops have and need guns bc alot of people in the streets have guns.

That was my argument from the beginning.

What are you talking about?

the gov't can make guns less profitable to make.

the gov't can stop buying so many guns that end up on the streets.

the gov't can do something.

we can do anything we decide is important enough to do.

I push back against the notion that nothing can be done.

>cops have and need guns bc alot of people in the streets have
>guns.
>
>That was my argument from the beginning.
>
>What are you talking about?

>ppl adhere to cops to an alarming degree.
>
>ppl usually do whatever they say, neglecting to exercise their
>constitutional rights.

Yes, Because they have guns.

>the media sucks cops off on the daily.
>
>
>
>and even if ppl don't comply with an officer, death should not
>be the penalty.
>
>that's what court is for.

Yeah tell that to Mike Brown R.I.P.

>if you took cops guns away,
>most cops would not miss them.

This is the reason alot of people become cops, To carry guns legally.

>again, it's not an unreasonable solution.

Highly unreasonable. Do you know how many police officer would get their top popped out here in L.A. alone? that's not a good look.

>other countries have done it.

You're talking about countries where there are strict gun laws.

>
>>how often do ppl shoot cops anyway?
>>
>
>
>Two cops killed in nyc
>Cop killed in memphis
>Cop killed in houston
>Ppl be shooting at and killing cops frequently
>

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacquelynsmith/2013/08/22/americas-10-deadliest-jobs-2/

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20131230/15411225716/number-officers-killed-line-duty-drops-to-50-year-low-while-number-citizens-killed-cops-remains-unchanged.shtml

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/blake-fleetwood/how-dangerous-is-police-w_b_6373798.html



---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

if they run away, use the radio and start the man hunt.

which is easy, because you know where they live.

cops that have guns could find the ppl that run away.
but every cop doing routine traffic stops need a gun.

not saying this is the BEST option. but it's not a laughable one.

Repeats "you are under arrest" in his big boy voice?

the point you are missing is
that cops are out here acting like judge dredd.

the penalty for sassing a cop might be death.

the penalty for running away from a cop might be death.


the cops only job is to bring ppl in to be prosecuted.

that job does not necessarily require a gun.

and if cops didn't have guns,
maybe they'd try to deescalate the situation.

which is something they can theoretically do now.

but they don't. apparently their training doesn't set them up to do that. and they have a badge, a gun, and a blue shield... so
they don't have much incentive to attempt deescalation.

cops shouldn't have guns for the same reason army troops shouldn't do counterinsurgency.

they aren't trained for it
and they suck at it.



cops not having guns might not be THE answer. but it's not a ridiculous solution.

other countries have done it
without descending into lawlessness.

somehow, we can figure this out.




>Repeats "you are under arrest" in his big boy voice?

Cops ain't gonna try to deescalate a damn thing with someone with a gun.They just won't get involved.

The idea of a cop trying to arrest someone with a gun is laughable, i'm sorry. Like i'm picturing it in my head and everyone is a cartoon character. Sorry.

my world would be fine if cops didn't have guns.

I survived 32 years without a personal firearm. I lived in iraq for a year and never removedy firearm from the holster.


I am okay with some crminals getting away instead of being shot by cops.

because how many violent crimes are prevented because cops have guns?


all I see now is an armed police force against mostly unarmed citizens.

I am more afraid of the cops than my fellow citizens.

its fine that you disagree.

...where those candy suggestions actually work.



Since 1976

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/11/us/shooting-ferguson-michael-brown.html

Man Is Shot in Ferguson After Police Say He Fired at Officers

By JOHN ELIGON and MITCH SMITHAUG. 10, 2015

To many guns already in this country to do anything like that anyway

Why is it states and cities with the most lax (non existent) gun laws have the least gun problems but nyc, chicago and Baltimore have so much more?

The laws are a response to the violence.

The violence is spurred by poverty, disenfranchisement, low self-esteem, lack of respect for life, lack of respect for community, among other factors.

I'm talking about the poverty, disenfranchisement, poverty et al part.

And them states have really lax gun laws but no murder rates like bmore or Chicago

they might have tougher gun laws too.

This culture of gun violence and why is it not in places with waaaay more access to guns?

>This culture of gun violence and why is it not in places with
>waaaay more access to guns?

vs rural


add in all the factors and cram people in a small space and voila

>vs rural
>
>
>add in all the factors and cram people in a small space and
>voila



If we spread Baltimore out then we'd see less gun crimes?

It's crazy because Baltimore and Chicago are of the chains right now with these gun killings.

Something has to give

Black people have witnessed other blacks legally killed by gun violence for centuries.

The poorest Black people have been witness to matters of respect and honor being settled via gunfights for centuries (or however long gun fights were legal) as well. Did you catch that last part? Gun fights were legal. You can factor in the expansion west as whole also.

Billy the Kid, Bonnie and Clyde, etc. Not only were the criminals gun users and abusers, but so were the police when you look at how these individuals were put down.

Lastly you have the height of the Mafia years where Tommy guns were legal street weapons capable of firing an incredible amount of bullets. It could certainly be considered battlefield ordinance.

All of this feeds into the gun culture and the love and support of it.

And not necessarily an AK-47. But a shotgun, rifle or hand gun.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

When you start picking and choosing amongst the amendments you run into trouble

>When you start picking and choosing amongst the amendments
>you run into trouble

What do you mean by this?


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

>>When you start picking and choosing amongst the amendments
>>you run into trouble
>
>What do you mean by this?


Ppl hunt with ak47 ask day everyday
This is the problem with the uninformed non-hunter

And I mean by the second part is the 2nd amendment says we can have guns FULL STOP it does not limit or specify which types

The 14th gives us the right to vote FULL STOP
it does not specify or limit the type of election we can vote in or when
So don't go start parsing amendments

any weapon.

I mean the word "regulated" is in the very first part of the second amendment.

The government could easily decide which sort of arms people can own at home and that doesn't mean that every single type of gun has to be allowed even if people could use them for hunting.

There are no unconditional rights. Even the first amendment doesn't protect all speech.

Second Amendment doesn't provide for the protection of all guns.




**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

>
>There are no unconditional rights. Even the first amendment
>doesn't protect all speech.
>


Really?
So what speech or parts of aren't protected under the 1st?

>Really?
>So what speech or parts of aren't protected under the 1st?


good luck

I'm not arguing
I'm telling y'all that you can't just pick and choose which amendments you want because you are outnumbered and if it came down to a vote "we" would lose.
We = non-whites

LOL

he's fairly ridiculously off-base.

http://www.wneclaw.com/medialaw/unprotectedcategories.html

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson


"One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're

>Really?
>So what speech or parts of aren't protected under the 1st?


Wikipedia the first amedment and then come back.

you talking like you'd go shoot deer with an ak47

Ppl hunt deer and hogs all day everyday with every kind of gun in every caliber available to man

just like the M16 is not

so yes, while people are 'hunting' with machine guns
thats hardly sportsmanship and probably a good enough justification for banning their use

the argument for assault weapons availability has never been because of 'hunting' and for a reason
its some bullshit about 'states defence'

as if any state can go against the army in this day and age

You think ppl are just spraying animals with bullets from ak47?
That ruins the meat to be filled with lead

Do you even know how difficult it is to get within shooting distance of a deer?

Do you know their scent game is impeccable and they can smell you hundreds of yards away downwind

Ppl shouldn't be so afraid of guns

is no more or less "fair or sportsmanlike" than firing a .270 out of a scoped winchester from 500 yards away

So who's gonna regulate who can have a gun and who can't?

It's impossible to get rid of guns, there's no chance that's happening.

You get rid of guns niggas will make their own or find a way to get one.

just give everybody a tank.

we cannot get rid of guns completely,
so we should shout down anybody that suggests doing anything
as being a hippie idealist.

every single cop needs a gun.
at all times.

to keep us safe!

A gun in every home! A semi-automatic, even. Full stop.

In fact I'm in favor of it, my point is you can't get rid of them.

Like it or not people will come up wit ways to make their own guns.

can't stop it anyway.
and making them harder to obtain
prevebts nothing.

no sense in trying...
just leave the status quo as is.

damn liberal idealists.
they never learn.


>In fact I'm in favor of it, my point is you can't get rid of
>them.
>
>Like it or not people will come up wit ways to make their own
>guns.
>
>

How do you make it harder to obtain?

>How do you make it harder to obtain?



just goes to show you that gov't regulation can't do a goddamm thing.

you definitely won.

That's all that matters in the end

They'd have no fear whatsoever.

And I'm carrying my 9mm everywhere with me down here in Georgia unless there's a sign posting that I can't take it in to a certain building.

to make it harder for the average citizen to own a gun
especially in cities and urban areas (unless you can prove you are hunting deer or sth)
total ban on assault weapons

and investigation of cops who discharge their weapon- proof should be on justifying it
not only when people protest

but i dont think an immediate 'take guns from cops' is the solution
a progressive, remove guns from society is necessary though

>to make it harder for the average citizen to own a gun
>especially in cities and urban areas (unless you can prove you
>are hunting deer or sth)
>total ban on assault weapons
>


That dentist who killed Cecil the lion is not the one doing drive by shootings. He is AVERAGE. Who you want to keep guns away from is Monster Cody and the eight tray Crips doing 100 murders in 100 nights or the chief keef types.
But stricter gun laws won't stop them ppl in Baltimore from getting a gun and killing 40+ ppl in the month of July.

We have enough gun laws as it is.
Unless you start giving folks 20 years for each gun they have in their posession (ie you see what happened with mandatory minimum drug laws) you will get nowhere.
Average citizen ain't killing ppl with guns. It's the already hardened criminals.

>We have enough gun laws as it is.

its not about average citizens and their gun murder rates
its the fact that its far to easy for anyone to get a gun
restricting it will also restrict illegal access to guns
by closing certain existing loopholes

California has a BUNCH of insane gun laws.
Arizona has none if very few
Texas has none
Georgia has none

Do you know how many guns are already in existence?
Too can many to make some buying gun laws work now.
It's too late.

LOL

you are SO informed.

where people can walk into a store and legally buy guns as they please. People in the northern parts of the U.S. seem to have the wrong perception of the problem with guns. My family in Boston is the same way. They don't think anyone should own guns. I'm like WTF? Glad I'm here in GA now where people at least have an option to protect themselves legally.

i'm not a criminal but that's a turn up deterrent right churr
of course it could be because i'm not use to being in line in the super market surround by cats with big ass hammers on their hips

But there aren't the shooting problems people in other parts of the country would think...for the most part.

except for mass shootings which have occurred recently in each state but represent an anomaly, would you say those states have a gun violence problem like that in Illinois? or New York?

>except for mass shootings which have occurred recently in
>each state but represent an anomaly, would you say those
>states have a gun violence problem like that in Illinois? or
>New York?

when it comes to rates of gun violence

definitely safer than alabama, mississippi or those southern states mentioned

>except for mass shootings which have occurred recently in
>each state but represent an anomaly, would you say those
>states have a gun violence problem like that in Illinois? or
>New York?



Texas don't have open carry but probably half the state CONCEALED carries
Just like in Atlanta you can walk into any wall Mart and walk out with a shotgun or rifle in less than five minutes

Compare the number of murders per capita of dallas and Houston versus nyc and Chicago july 2015 & 2014

>Texas don't have open carry but probably half the state
>CONCEALED carries

we can carry concealed weapons w/in the city of Chicago.

>Just like in Atlanta you can walk into any wall Mart and walk
>out with a shotgun or rifle in less than five minutes
>
>Compare the number of murders per capita of dallas and Houston
>versus nyc and Chicago july 2015 & 2014

i expect NYC and Chicago will have higher per capita #s. but not b/c of the gun laws in NYC and Chicago. if anything the gun laws are a reaction to the violence and not the cause of the violence. you won't convince me otherwise w/o some pretty solid proof.

>Compare the number of murders per capita of dallas and Houston
>versus nyc and Chicago july 2015 & 2014

chicago is not even in the top 30 list in terms of murders per capita

i think we are merely looking at absolute numbers and drawing false conclusions
but the data is out there... on the internet, even

time

open carry starts jan 1

STL has been the murder capital more than once.

ready....set....GO!

the numbers definitely do not support the 'more guns=more safety argument
even though its peddled over and over again.
its okay to say, we want guns because we want to play with these toys
its disingenuous to claim that its about improving safety or deterring crime

--

e.g.

http://www.vpc.org/fadeathchart14.htm

its definitely better/safer to live on the east coast

(Rank State Household Gun Ownership Gun Death Rate Per 100,000)

1 Louisiana 45.6 percent 18.91
2 Mississippi 54.3 percent 17.80
3 Alaska 60.6 percent 17.41
4 Wyoming 62.8 percent 16.92
5 Montana 61.4 percent 16.74

>the numbers definitely do not support the 'more guns=more
>safety argument
>even though its peddled over and over again.

when I talk to the red (neck) state folk out here. But I do feel I should have the right to protect myself. In a home invasion, I do not want to be waiting for the police as my only support. Not in this day and age.

places with more restrictive gun laws actually see a significant reduction in gun violence
whereas places with lax gun laws do not reduce criminality - and are in fact shown to have the highest rate of gun murders
it seems that someone afraid of a home invasion would take this into consideration
for some reason, its never the case

so let me ask you... how many home invasions have you been a victim of, to date?
and how many in your neighbourhood per week, on average?
must be pretty high to warrant this;

>In a home
>invasion, I do not want to be waiting for the police as my
>only support. Not in this day and age.

No I haven't experienced a home invasion, but I have had someone try to get in my house in the middle of the night. I came outside with my gun drawn along with my dog but the person took off. And there have been other attempted break ins in our neighborhood while there were people currently at home.
There was also a home invasion though walking distance from my home last year which creeped out my wife. She wanted her gun license as well after that incident. I don't ever want to have to experience that, but I prefer to have some sort of backup.

Let me ask you this though. If guns don't appear to be going anywhere anytime soon, you would prefer to not have one inside your home knowing you're living in an area where so many have them and you're able to legally get one?
Are you going by the probability of not having a gun turned on you?

ak47s, mainly
shit i had an ak47 (not intentionally.. its a long story) in my house for a month
im far more surprised to walk down a street and not see police/army/any uniformed person with guns than not
my friends are more likely than not to have handguns on their person when we are out (and if not them then someone)
it is less common than it was 5 years ago, but still far more common than should be

the crime rate is also ridiculously high, constant fear of your house getting broken into, because houses are always getting broken into
(so no, the ubiquitous number of guns available does not deter criminality)
and perhaps mine is an extreme situation
but no, i would still not want to own a gun.
even in that particular situation

and i've been threatened with an AK (being waved in my face) several times
i've heard one cocked at me, as well
(i was driving away- my friend and i both ducked- we'd driven past a roadstop).
i've spent nights hearing a barrage of gun shots -
and it was not because we were celebrating new years
(people shoot in the air)
so no... im not a believer in guns, legally obtained or not
its a very thin line between legal and illegal

one of my first clubbing experiences in the u.s ended with gunshots
(kansas city, missouri- small ass club with the d.j shooting in the air, apparently to stop a fight)
several other incidences i could mention as well
the only city i felt really safe in is new york

i live in baltimore now.
i definitely think there should be a way to get guns away from the street
and off the hands of ALL civilians

is not naming existing gun laws

stop failing at comprehension as well

I thought it was common knowledge that it's much harder to legally buy guns in a place like Illinois versus Georgia?

>I thought it was common knowledge that it's much harder to
>legally buy guns in a place like Illinois versus Georgia?

should be easy to, if they are 'enough'
i dont know these laws.

despite the control laws...guns are easily bought.

they're easily purchased legally by crossing the city limits. several suburban towns have gun stores that do brisk bizness.

also, of course, guns are easily bought w/in the city limits via the black market.

soon a court will force the city to stop enforcing its ban on gun stores w/in the city. and then it'll be even easier to buy a gun in Chicago.

the problem here is NOT that ppl can't get their hands on guns. lol

>the problem here is NOT that ppl can't get their hands on
>guns. lol

That's all anyone in places like here in GA have been saying to the people who want stricter gun laws.

if tanks were available to everyone, we would all be safer.

it's not the easily availablr tanks that would kill ppl. it's
the ppl that would kill ppl.

but i would feel safer if i had a tank.

wouldn't YOU feel safer if i had a tank?

we can't solve this by reducing access to guns.

just give everybody one

that will make gun violence go down for sure.


FYI, the only reason i don't own a tank is that they are hard to get.

that is probably for the best.

really, it is.

>>the problem here is NOT that ppl can't get their hands on
>>guns. lol
>
>That's all anyone in places like here in GA have been saying
>to the people who want stricter gun laws.

this argument is mad simplistic and ignores too many nuances to be taken seriously imo
focus on the underlying issues because the guns aren't going anywhere, ban or not

background checks need to be more thorough (tamir)

officer (sensitivity) training needs to be more thorough

officer pay needs to be higher to weed out fuck-tards and raise the overrall standard bc right now any p.o.s. can get a badge & gun

b/c black officers also mistreat black civilians.

i don't think race is the problem as much as a cultural problem w/in police.

i mostly agree w/u tho

there is DEFINITELY a fraternal element to policing that encourages cover-ups & grimy s##t to take place.

but even still - black police officers know they can't get away with a fraction of the bullshit their yt counterparts can.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1999-09-12/news/9909120226_1_officers-lawyer-chicago-police-supt-joseph-roddy

^ this is just one example.

the cop who shot that young woman was fired.

.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2014/10/diversity_won_t_solve_police_misconduct_black_cops_don_t_reduce_violence.html

that is some of the most depressing s##t i've eaten in a while

black cops still work for the same org as the white ones.

It's not a race thing with them. It's built into the culture of many departments. All blue everything and everyone else is the enemy/other.

gun problem is here to stay, because america LOVES its guns.


"If you wanna help us, fine. Sit down with your kids and make 'em study at night...otherwise, shoot THIS mothaf*cka!" (c) Morgan Freeman,

FREEDDUUUUMMMBBBB (c) Pharrell

Do y'all ever talk to anyone that has spent the last 50 years in towns with less than 20k ppl?

They have thoughts and a vote too.

Some of y'all have no idea

Understand how "they" think and you might have a better chance at getting what you want.

most OKP don't believe in God so there's that

Get out of the big city for a change

Instead of going to Madrid for summer vacation how about a week in Opelika, Alabama?
Just as much culture in Alabama as it is Spain

>Instead of going to Madrid for summer vacation how about a
>week in Opelika, Alabama?
>Just as much culture in Alabama as it is Spain

dont know why i thought this was serious

I'm non-white and have under 30 cousins that live in rural areas that think like Palin voters

Go to church every Sunday
And shoot pigs from helicopters every Saturday

With AK-47 at that!

Again, your response is the typical OKP "above it all" type of response.
If nobody ain't aligning with your views you dismiss them as crazy or joking.
I'm just parroting the sentiments of family members who live in the country and lax gun law states

>I'm non-white and have under 30 cousins that live in rural
>areas that think like Palin voters

>If nobody ain't aligning with your views you dismiss them as
>crazy or joking.

yes, this is exactly it
except you havent really given a view worth considering.

hyperbolic statements dont count

>I'm just parroting the sentiments of family members who live
>in the country and lax gun law states

the good thing is that most of us base decisions on evidence and information
not on what people tell us.

It really is that simple. I'll go even farther and say American's enjoy guns and violence. People are and act violent because it feels good,

The history books do not disagree.

so clearly, it's allowed.

>Do y'all ever talk to anyone that has spent the last 50 years
>in towns with less than 20k ppl?


grew up in southern virginia,
went to school in bumfuck michigan. spent four years in
the army with ppl from the heart of texas.

so, whatever.


>
>They have thoughts and a vote too.
>
>Some of y'all have no idea
>
>Understand how "they" think and you might have a better chance
>at getting what you want.
>



>most OKP don't believe in God so there's that
>


most OKP's are christians.

>Get out of the big city for a change
>

I grew up south of the mason dixon line. rebel flags a flying.


>Instead of going to Madrid for summer vacation how about a
>week in Opelika, Alabama?
>Just as much culture in Alabama as it is Spain


cool.

>Do y'all ever talk to anyone that has spent the last 50 years
>in towns with less than 20k ppl?

sweetie, my extended family comes from lil sleepy towns in Alabama, Georgia, Missouri and Mississippi. i speak w/them regularly, love.

>They have thoughts and a vote too.

that's nice.

>Some of y'all have no idea
>
>Understand how "they" think and you might have a better chance
>at getting what you want.
>
>most OKP don't believe in God so there's that

ain't that precious?

>Get out of the big city for a change
>
>Instead of going to Madrid for summer vacation how about a
>week in Opelika, Alabama?
>Just as much culture in Alabama as it is Spain

bless your heart.

>Instead of going to Madrid for summer vacation how about a
>week in Opelika, Alabama?
>Just as much culture in Alabama as it is Spain

>
>>Instead of going to Madrid for summer vacation how about a
>>week in Opelika, Alabama?
>>Just as much culture in Alabama as it is Spain
>


Will want to frolic around the "south of france" in their countryside/wineries and consider themselves "cultured" but don't and won't do the same in Alabama.

Both places are rural farmlands.
But one is major Black the other major white.

Y'all don't think "the footwash" is culture until you read about it in Atlantic Monthly then you want to be a part.
Just like Marfa.

Keep being force feed on what "culture" really is.

Y'all "Black" folk should feel ashamed

Go see your people!

Quick to run to the jungles of Ghana but totally skip rural Georgia

Because this is seriously amusing stuff right here. You could probably make a killing putting this on youtube.

Again, above it all and dismissive

Point is, many of those screaming black lives matter and try to be so progressive would seek culture in Madagascar before rural Missouri.

Why is some dusty roads in Negril more cultural than dusty roads outside of Nashville?

I'm going if topic now.
Anyhow, understand the life of rural folks raised on guns before y'all start making conclusions.

Nobody in Chickasaw, Mississippi gives a dam if black kids in Chicago kill each other with guns.
It doesn't affect them and they know better how to handle guns.

and I sincerely mean that.

>Again, above it all and dismissive
>
>Point is, many of those screaming black lives matter and try
>to be so progressive would seek culture in Madagascar before
>rural Missouri.

Err.. I don't know how sound that reasoning is, but I'm not part of the BLM chorus as I know what a dog chasing it's tail looks like. I'm not sure why you are thinking the places most hostile to the black class are the areas which would be somehow culturally valuable. On the surface it's odd thinking and you haven't done a good job of supporting this angle as far as I can tell.

>Why is some dusty roads in Negril more cultural than dusty
>roads outside of Nashville?

Because people of African Ancestry are more likely to be welcome there than hung there. I think that one answers itself.

>I'm going if topic now.
>Anyhow, understand the life of rural folks raised on guns
>before y'all start making conclusions.

Most of early American history is the story of said folks. Trust me-- we get it.

>Nobody in Chickasaw, Mississippi gives a dam if black kids in
>Chicago kill each other with guns.
>It doesn't affect them and they know better how to handle
>guns.

Not just Chickasaw, but I digress.

Man-- just-- is Stormfront experiencing heavy traffic or something? I guess you're technically right, but I'll pass on that kind of age old "culture" if you don't mind. Not too many lynching postcards coming out of Madrid.

>Do y'all ever talk to anyone that has spent the last 50 years
>in towns with less than 20k ppl?

No. Those towns do not exist for educated non-white people to visit. Why you're in such a town (if in fact you are) is your decision, but some of us don't want to visit the only Starbucks located next to the Klan's recruiting center.

>They have thoughts and a vote too.
>
>Some of y'all have no idea
>
>Understand how "they" think and you might have a better chance
>at getting what you want.

Yep and we know their thoughts and we see the result of their votes and there are plenty of dead black men, women, and children as evidence of both.


>most OKP don't believe in God so there's that

Only God really knows who's for him and who isn't. Not every church goer is a believer. You might even have a Grand Dragon handling the usher duties at Kingdom Hall Opelika.

>Get out of the big city for a change

Nah. Unless it's to go to another big city.

>Instead of going to Madrid for summer vacation how about a
>week in Opelika, Alabama?
>Just as much culture in Alabama as it is Spain

I doubt even southern Spain is as culturally anti-black as Alabama is and that area was subjugated by Africans.

Lastly-- I'm hoping most of us on this board realize neither Liberal nor Conservative has the interests of the American people in mind, but I could be wrong.

How you saying Spain not as racist to blacks as Alabama?
You never heard of the nina, pinta or santa maria?
Them shits want no Carnival Cruiselines neither!

Is Italy and Spain accepting African boat people right today?

towards black people? And to be honest-- black Americans will do better in those quasi-European places than black Africans. That's just the truth, but if you don't leave your town of under 20k or so psychopathic hate mongers then you wouldn't know that.

Ever seen a Sicilian? Black folks can do just fine in Italy and Southern Spain because those are areas of black i.e. African influence. Again might not know that living in Hangacoon, Georgia.

Bonus round: Who stopped profiting from the dehumanization of black people first? Spain or America?

Madrid is just sooooo passé.

Marbella, Barcelona, or Seville are the hotspots these days.

Ibiza... LOL!!! Bet you got on fat pants, a tall ass Dr Seuss Cat in the Hat joint on with a backpack full of glow sticks too.

HOOOOOOHOHOHOHO! (c) Jabba The Hutt.
---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

>Marbella, Barcelona, or Seville are the hotspots these days.
>
>Ibiza... LOL!!! Bet you got on fat pants, a tall ass Dr Seuss
>Cat in the Hat joint on with a backpack full of glow sticks
>too.

you forgot the shiny suit.

do they need guns?

why?

even if a kid brought a gun to school, do we need a cop with a gun to protect the other students?

why?

why does every single cop need a gun on them at all times?

use their words to talk
someone off the ledge?

call for backup?

keep the armed suspect talking until backup arrives?


anything other than drawing a weapon as a first response COULD work.

I mean... that is an option, right?

these are possiblities.

can't we consider them?
why are folks making them seem unrealistic?

not at all.

and i said nothing of the sort.

If I call the cops because I or someone else is in harm's way bc someone has a gun, I want the cop to show up with a gun, not with a bullhorn.

______________________________
http://i.imgur.com/81XSukd.jpg <-- Happy trails

what harm could it do?

killing is already illegal.
why limit my ability to own a tank? or 20 tanks?

I have rights!

what harm could it do?

killing is already illegal.
why limit my ability to own a tank? or 20 tanks?

I have rights!

bet the cops will think twice about shooting if they would
deregulate everything and make
weapons more available to everyone.

what could go wrong?

we are powerless to end all violence so just make it easier
to get whatever weapons you want
without any restrictions at all.


gov't regulation can't stop anything.

that's why we all have tanks
in our garages to keep our families safe.

an imperfect solution is worse
than the status quo.

right on.

And you talking like You have the answer, not i know this sounds dumb, i'm still trying to work out the kinks.

Bc all i see right now is you arguing that a cop can talk a murderer with a gun out of killing more people and voluntarily going under arrest.

but it can't happen in a vacuum.

i think first we would need to address the roots of gun violence (other than access to guns) so that we can put civilians in a place where they're less likely to reach for guns. that'll take several generations. once we're there then we can talk seriously about disarming our police.

the idea gets laughed out of the room as if every cop needs a gun for self defense.

as if arming cops keeps us all safer.

as if it is impossible for cops "in the field" to respond to a situation without being armed with a gun.

as if cops' guns are the only thing keeping us away from lawless and anarchy.


why must we assume every cop needs a gun?

as if there are no alternatives?

aren't we better than that?
and if we aren't, why can't we be?

other countries figured it out.
we can too.


if we, you know, thought about it for a second.

and criminals are strapped but the cops ain't.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_Police#Weapons

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_New_Zealand

according to this article.

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-cops-in-britain-and-new-zealand-dont-carry-guns-2014-10

maybe the ppl don't feel the need to arm themselves as much b/c, you know, their police don't carry guns.

maybe they have less gun crime b/c, you know, the ppl don't carry guns.

hmmm....

it wasn't because they were scared of the police.

It was because they were in that life or because they were in a bad neighborhood and felt protected with a gun.

That's NYC...my out of town family with guns have one because everyone does.

most ppl don't own guns. and where the police don't carry them for the most part.

all of those concepts are foreign to us. i get it.

that's part of why i say it'd take multiple generations to disarm our police. but it can be done - we just need the will.

society didn't have guns.

Like i said, cops in Zimbabwe weren't strapped, bc people weren't strapped..and the community treated all criminals with disdain like sex offenders.

But when we was in Johannesburg, i was glad to see armed guards walking down the street with assault rifles bc all the citizens are strapped and crime is no joke.

apparently, it's possible.

so there.

those countries don't exist.
because not every country is full of maniacs that need to be armed to the teeth at every moment.

can we at least talk about us having fewer guns?

where did they come from?

is there anything we can do to have less?


we somehow managed to reduce the amount of nukes we have.

why can't that work with guns?

can we try?

guns first is the way to a safer world though.

it's a pretty great solution. getting there is tricky though. b/c putting us in a position where disarming the police is feasible will take generations.

A solution for the problem of child molesters could be killing everyone over the age of 7.

Or killing all children now and aborting every pregnancy.

as a Black person,
why would I be glad cops have lots of guns?

it's not the only solution, of course. but it's definitely a solution and i think it's a great one.

it's a great solution to the problem of unjustifiable police shootings. it's not the only solution but it's a great one.

that is a problematic assumption.

because every cop out "in the field" doesn't have to be armed with a gun.

because every cop isn't interacting with murderers.

and even if they were, every murderer with a gun is not an immediate threat to public safety.

some need mediation.
or counseling.

or a trained professional that can talk the gun out of their hand.

but that kind of talk is dismissed as hippie nonsense.

which is bullshit.



so i said the conversation about disarming cops entirely is not unreasonable.

and it's not.


cops having guns is not keeping me safer.

or if it is, it hasn't been proven to me anywhere.

but I've seen ample evidece of cops leaping to deadly force too quickly.

so yeah, I am fine with what I said. because the idea of disarming cops should be in the discourse.

why not?

it's reasonable.


>And you talking like You have the answer, not i know this
>sounds dumb, i'm still trying to work out the kinks.
>
>Bc all i see right now is you arguing that a cop can talk a
>murderer with a gun out of killing more people and voluntarily
>going under arrest.

murderers and who won't be. Its unpredictable. lol

If there were certain cops that dealt with the murderers and other cops that got kitten out of trees only then yeah i'd be on board with what you are saying, but that ain't how it works.

As for this, the issue is that the person with the gun isn't trained or expected to do other things like what you mentioned. It doesn't have to be one(the gun) or the other (other intervention). The problem is the training. Just bc the officer has a gun doesn't mean its appropriate to use. That comes from training and being held accountable.

And if cops didn't have guns, they'd still abuse unarmed individuals in whatever capacity they could..billy clubs, fists, rough rides, etc.

Getting rid of officer's guns wouldn't necessarily end abuse at the hands of the officers.

>some need mediation.
or counseling.

or a trained professional that can talk the gun out of their hand.

but that kind of talk is dismissed as hippie nonsense.

which is bullshit.

>murderers and who won't be. Its unpredictable. lol
>

if the job is dangerous, i don't care.
but i buy the danger angle for cops as much as i buy it for the military.

which is to say, i don't, for the most part.
it's not that bad.

murder is rare.
so i don't care.


>If there were certain cops that dealt with the murderers and
>other cops that got kitten out of trees only then yeah i'd be
>on board with what you are saying, but that ain't how it
>works.
>

most cops don't get murdered.
them being armed doesn't help me as a Black person.
so i don't care.


>As for this, the issue is that the person with the gun isn't
>trained or expected to do other things like what you
>mentioned. It doesn't have to be one(the gun) or the other
>(other intervention). The problem is the training. Just bc the
>officer has a gun doesn't mean its appropriate to use. That
>comes from training and being held accountable.
>
>And if cops didn't have guns, they'd still abuse unarmed
>individuals in whatever capacity they could..billy clubs,
>fists, rough rides, etc.


but they would not shoot me.
an imperfect solution is not worthless.


>
>Getting rid of officer's guns wouldn't necessarily end abuse
>at the hands of the officers.
>

so?

>>some need mediation.
>or counseling.
>
>or a trained professional that can talk the gun out of their
>hand.
>
>but that kind of talk is dismissed as hippie nonsense.
>
>which is bullshit.





this point still stands.
we don't need every cop to have a gun.

we just don't.

>sucks to be a cop-

i'm trying figure out who mike jackson is
i'm leaning toward that gay dude with the avy of him and all the white ppl (forgot his other username)

and you are right.

me being gay and having some white friends completely discredits my opinion.

i am who you say i am.

that's not even what dude said.

>that's not even what dude said.

it's not like he hasn't said sideways shit to me before.

that was all in my imagination, I am sure. because I am sensitive, hurt, mad, emotional, in my feelings, or
otherwise incapable of making a coherent thought.


it's cool.

I see where you are coming from.

b/c he didn't.

lol

i'm pretty great at this OKP thing.

but yea that's a joe corn reaction right there
bwhahahahah

I can usually tell who an alias really is


This one I'm stumped

I simply earned those to not rush into carving up the constitution because it count be deleterious

And to also empathize with that that like guns
OKP is the Fox news of the far left
We need more centrist in this country

>I can usually tell who an alias really is
>
>
>This one I'm stumped

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/02/18/5-countries-where-police-officers-do-not-carry-firearms-and-it-works-well/

By Rick Noack February 18

In the United States, it seems obvious that police officers carry guns and are allowed to use them.

In other places, however, this would be considered a provocation and a violation of law.

In Britain, Ireland, Norway, Iceland and New Zealand, officers are unarmed when they are on patrol. Police are only equipped with firearms in special circumstances. It's a strategy that seems to work surprisingly well for these countries. Police officers there have saved lives -- exactly because they were unable to shoot.

"The practice is rooted in tradition and the belief that arming the police with guns engenders more gun violence than it prevents," Guðmundur Oddsson, an assistant professor of sociology at Northern Michigan University, told The Washington Post.

As the U.S. grapples with its own debates over gun control and better policing, these five nations could teach some crucial lessons.

In Iceland, one third of all citizens are armed -- but police officers are not most of the time

When police shot a man in Iceland in 2013, it was the first time cops had used their firearms and killed a person in the history of this country, according to the Christian Science Monitor. Granted, Iceland is a tiny country with only 300,000 inhabitants.

However, one third of the country's population is armed with rifles and shotguns for hunting purposes, making it the 15th most armed country per capita in the world. Despite this, crime is extremely rare.

Are Icelanders simply more peaceful than Americans? "Iceland's low crime rates are rooted in the country's small, homogenous, egalitarian and tightly knit society," sociologist Oddsson said.

When asked what struck him most about crime in Iceland, Richard Wright, a criminology professor at Georgia State University, said: "Once, during a presentation, an Icelandic police officer kept referring to 'poor people with problems' -- and it took me a while before I realized that she was talking about offenders. She considered every citizen precious because 'we are so few and there is so much to do,' she said."

Wright also thinks that the powerful standing of women in Iceland's politics, as well as within the police force, has helped to maintain low crime rates -- something the U.S. should learn from. Both Oddsson and Wright agree that low inequality and a strong welfare system have also contributed to Iceland's success in sustaining its unarmed police.

Most of Ireland's officers are not even trained in using firearms

Ireland has gone a step further: There, most police officers would not even know how to use a gun if they were threatened. According to the U.N.-sponsored research site GunPolicy.org, only 20 to 25 percent of Irish police officers are qualified to use firearms. Despite that, Ireland has much lower crime rates than the United States.

In Britain, 82 percent of the police do not want to be armed

"Sadly we know from the experience in America and other countries that having armed officers certainly does not mean, sadly, that police officers do not end up getting shot," Greater Manchester Chief Constable Sir Peter Fahy was quoted as saying by British media outlets in 2012, after two of his officers were shot dead.

The practice of walking unarmed patrols is an established fact of police life everywhere in the U.K. apart from Northern Ireland: Since the 19th century, British officers on patrol have considered themselves to be guardians of citizens, who should be easily approachable. There are far fewer incidents of deadly clashes between police and suspected criminals. While there were 461 “justifiable homicides” committed by U.S. police in 2013, according to the FBI’s Uniform Crime Report, there was not a single one in the United Kingdom the same year.

In a 2004 survey, 82 percent of Britain's Police Federation members said that they did not want to be routinely armed on duty, according to the BBC. At least one third of British police officers have feared for their lives while being on duty, but remained opposed to carrying firearms.

In New Zealand, a professor argued that it's more dangerous to be a farmer than an unarmed police officer


In an essay, Auckland Technical University Senior Criminology Lecturer John Buttle calculated that it is in fact safer for police officers not to carry weapons. ", it is more dangerous being a farmer than it is a police officer," he wrote in a paper, published 2010. Arming the police would inevitably lead to an arms race with criminals and a spike in casualties.

"Only a dozen or so senior police officers nationwide are rostered to wear a handgun on any given shift," Philip Alpers, Associate Professor at the Sydney School of Public Health, told The Washington Post.

Norway has stuck to the tradition -- despite a shock in 2011

In 2011, Norway suffered through a tragedy which exposed the dangers of unarmed law enforcement authorities. Back then, far-right gunman Anders Behring Breivik attacked a Norwegian summer camp and killed 77 people.

Murders are extremely rare in this Scandinavian country -- but many blamed a delayed and flawed police response for the horrifying carnage Breivik was able to inflict. So far, though, the tradition of unarmed police officers has proven to be stronger than the fear of terrorism.

There are other places, too.

Twelve out of 16 Pacific island nations, for instance, do not allow police officers to carry weapons, either. "Their regional bumper sticker now reads: An unarmed society is a polite society," says Alpers of the Sydney School of Public Health.

Most experts agree, however, that it would be counterproductive to suddenly disarm U.S. police officers without addressing the origins of crime. "Any attempts to roll back the militarization of the American police would need to be accompanied by policies that increase economic and racial equality and legitimate opportunity for advancement for the poor," sociologist Oddsson said.

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=12855513&mesg_id=12855513&listing_type=search#12856578

when i was in zimbabwe they said officers didn't have guns. i also heard some kid try to rob a lady of her groceries and the the townspeople chased him down, beat up the kid and gave the lady back her bread.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_Zealand_police_officers_killed_in_the_line_of_duty#Killed_by_criminal_act

increasing police presence shouldn't result in an increase in crime

should it?

I'm not sure if you're just dimissing the premise

but if demilitarizing our PDs = less crime

I don't see the problem.

w/plenty racial strife. hard times. poor ppl.

plenty police. no guns though.

so it can be done. we're not dealing w/some inherent quality in ppl. this isn't instinctual shit here. there are ppl in the world who live as we do (developed world, major city) whose police force doesn't carry guns.

if we had the will we could get this done. it'll take a few generations. it hasn't happened though b/c we don't want it.

i tend to agree w/what Michael Moore suggested in Bowling for Columbine - that we want our guns b/c the white ppl taught us we should and they want them b/c they skurred of the *insert racial minority w/a righteous cause here*. and they sold us that bullshit about guns being weaved into the fabric of the nation and we've bought it. so now we don't believe we can live w/o guns. though ppl around the world who are similarly situated have managed to do so for decades.

we can be rid of our guns. but we have to want it.

Great Britain same year: ZERO


I read that shit three times

Unless you plan on jumping in your time machine & rewriting history.

Not to mention, niggas are stabbing the shit out of each other & the cops are literally BEATING people to death as opposed to shooting.

We need to worry more bout demilitarizing the police (which is a reality now) & less bout this pipe dream hall proposing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_New_Zealand

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_Police#Civilian_deaths_involving_police

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_Kingdom

which seems to support the point - disarming police is a way to cut down on the # of police shootings of unarmed civilians.

& keep in mind those are the high profile deaths by the hands of the cops.

Take away the guns they'll still kill you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_States

So yes, I agree. I made a good comparison.

The comparison isn't good cuz you have to factor in the culture & laws.

Again just cuz you take the guns away doesn't take away the murders.

civilians though they don't carry guns. Show me.

Lets take the guns from the Police and have them talk criminals with guns down.

Two guys having a shoot out in the street

Police: Hault! My African American friends, please put the guns down so we can arrest you and charge you with attempted murder and illegal position of a gun, you will then go to trial and possible serve years of your life in jail.

Niggas: Aight, you got us. We could have gotten away with this, if not for you meddling police officers.


That's exactly how it would go, I'm sure of it.

This place needs its own cartoon. It's comedy gold that hasn't been tapped yet.

yeah, this place is entertaining

>http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=12875261&mode=full#12875382

But apparently, if the cops didn't have guns neither would the criminals and crime would go down.

i've heard of a place called 'London'. but i read about it in a fictional novel so i'm sure it doesn't exist.

it's also hilarious that there are places in the world where police don't carry guns. and that police in those places don't die in the line of duty at alarming high rates. and some of these places have major cities in them.

so funny. this place.

it is to laugh.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_use_of_firearms_in_the_United_Kingdom#Great_Britain

"... around 17% of officers in London became authorised to carry firearms. After the deaths of a number of members of the public in the 1980s fired upon by police, control was considerably tightened, many officers had their firearm authorisation revoked, and training for the remainder was greatly improved. As of 2005, around 7% of officers in London are trained in the use of firearms. Firearms are also only issued to an officer under strict guidelines."

So... England had, at one point, severely restricted the use of guns by cops and, for the most part it worked. Shit happened and they relaxed it a bit. People started dying at the hands of those armed cops and instead of making excuses for it like we do, they clamped down hard again and revoked their ability to wield guns.

amazing that only 7% of their entire police force has a gun.
---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

this can be done if we have the will to do it.

Maybe even moreso. Cops got no guns, but can put you in a Judo hold with the quickness.

obviously, no more guns wouldn't happen overnight

increasing regulation so nutjobs don't have access to guns is a step toward that model

but IRT police

wouldn't it make more sense for officers on patrol to not have guns

given how many scenarios escalate to homicides of unarmed citizens

shouldn't be hard to come up with a more effective model

say, a unit for active shooters, or where an actual lethal weapon had been identified

but to just have cops on a beat with guns seems to correlate to homicide rates of citizens

doesn't seem that hard to understand, IMO

they frame the debate in a way so that the only thing to do
is do just do nothing.


many cannot even imagine things being any different.

very clever.

this shocks me that its acceptable

Since 1976

thinking this is the ONLY way it can work

because Australia didn't do it already



THERES NOT POSSIBLE WAY THIS CAN WORK
what they said about
women voting
african american voting
freeing the slaves


y'all keep going backwards though
keep up the good nonthinking work
its the american way now
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

>THERES NOT POSSIBLE WAY THIS CAN WORK
>what they said about
>women voting
>african american voting
>freeing the slaves

LMAO what?!

What does that even have to do with... lol nevermind, I noticed what site I'm on.

This place does make me feel better about myself though. Amazing.

>>THERES NOT POSSIBLE WAY THIS CAN WORK
>>what they said about
>>women voting
>>african american voting
>>freeing the slaves
>
>LMAO what?!
>
>What does that even have to do with

those were analogies.

what you're saying about the impossibility of disarming police is analogous to comments some detractors made about abolition, and women's and black suffrage. they said those were impossible too and now we know they were wrong. lfresh's point is that you are also incorrect when you say it's impossible to disarm police.

But Americas gun problem also comes from people other than police officers.

We take the guns off the streets (as they should be) and we can disarm the police as well.

Gun violence also comes from those that own illegal weapons, and to an extent those that purchased a firearm and ends up using them in an improper fashion (Zimmerman, ect).

I'm stating that you just can't take guns away from the police before the guns are away from those doing illegal activity first.

Clean up the streets + Pull fire arms away from certain law enforcement = less gun violence.

Can't have one without the other.

but LOL @ OKP. so silly.

>but LOL @ OKP. so silly.

i'll keep having a good laugh at your "imposibilities"
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

Scroll up, I just said its not impossible but its going to take more than disarming "just" police.

Done with this post for now though, laughed enough.

u gotta realize that disarming police is not a solution to end gun violence worldwide...

i agree that America should overall be disarmed but this is a death by cops with guns solution not a death by anyone with guns solution...

training isn't going to make cops better in these situations...it's not going to make racial biases go away...

disarming cops will dramatically decrease deaths by police...period

other nations prove it's not only possible but smarter than our current model...

again this is not a solution to ending all gun violence

being created to keep the peace between wealthy land owners, the communities they sustained, and their slaves.

In Europe i.e. England where the organized system originated it was to keep the peace between civilians.

That is why European policing is less violent. No one over there was trying to prevent Harriet Tubman and Sojourner Truth from stealing from them.

Therefore American Policing (and to an extent policing in the Americas) is fundamentally flawed. Get it? There is no cure.

since we have established that nothing can be done to stop
police from killing unarmed civilians, we should all just give up.

don't try.

don't even talk about trying.

it's a pipe dream.



let's all just give up and leave the country.
or commit suicide.

whitey always wins, and we will always lose, no matter
how hard we try to change things.


just give up, is what you are saying.


i mean, shit.
every. single. post.
nothing but you talking about how Blacks are doomed to die at the hands of whitey,
and how nothing is even worth trying.

how have you not given up completely?
this level of pessimism is worse than death.


and i thought i was cynical.


damn.


>being created to keep the peace between wealthy land owners,
>the communities they sustained, and their slaves.
>
>In Europe i.e. England where the organized system originated
>it was to keep the peace between civilians.
>
>That is why European policing is less violent. No one over
>there was trying to prevent Harriet Tubman and Sojourner Truth
>from stealing from them.
>
>Therefore American Policing (and to an extent policing in the
>Americas) is fundamentally flawed. Get it? There is no cure.

1 + 1 = 2 and some of you are in here hoping it can can equal 3. It would be one thing if there were some actual plans on how to go about such a thing as changing the hearts and minds of people largely born and bred to hate black people (primarily). SoWhat had a decent suggestion but good luck convincing those who benefit from unfairness to accept fairness. Humans aren't wired that way-- as studies have proven, especially not the humans in the U.S. who willingly or ignorantly fight for whiteness i.e. most Americans.

>since we have established that nothing can be done to stop
>police from killing unarmed civilians, we should all just give
>up.
>
>don't try.
>
>don't even talk about trying.
>
>it's a pipe dream.
>

Yes! You can call it giving up (which is inaccurate because there's nothing to be gained anyhow) I call it re-evaluating. Find a better way to gain equality and perhaps realize that everything around you is saying that it's not going to happen for black people here in America. Racial violence and intolerance is the only crop you are guaranteed to reap as its seeds have been sown for centuries. How will you break that? The only option is destruction of the soil. The same soil that allows the majority to enjoy or think they enjoy their lives.

>let's all just give up and leave the country.
>or commit suicide.

This suicide thing-- can we stop with that? No ones advocating it. But yeah-- why isn't the discussion about learning second languages gaining skills and establishing ourselves elsewhere? Other cultures do it to come here we should look at doing it to go elsewhere. I mean if one enjoys second class citizenship then who am I to interfere, but it's funny how few blacks neglect to admit that their ancestors would have preferred anywhere but here. Why not honor that?

>whitey always wins, and we will always lose, no matter
>how hard we try to change things.

In America yes-- until there is a collapse and black people as it stands aren't even prepared for that, but the militias are. Lol go figure.


>just give up, is what you are saying.

Yes, move on. Let those that are racist be racist still, let those that love justice love justice still, let those who choose ignorance be ignorant still. To paraphrase.

>i mean, shit.
>every. single. post.
>nothing but you talking about how Blacks are doomed to die at
>the hands of whitey,
>and how nothing is even worth trying.

It's called consistency or staying on message. Someone out there might value the truth and be able to better assess their environment as a result.

>how have you not given up completely?
>this level of pessimism is worse than death.

I have a plan and so far so good. Also I'm fortunate enough to know which mushrooms are poisonous and which are safe to eat. Not everyone has that.

>and i thought i was cynical.

There's always a bigger fish.

I believe in odds not luck.

I'm talkin armed roberry
shots fired
stuff like that?

if you live in Aspen or Vail, probably not many
but if you on the South Side of Chi or The Boogie Down...

between July 21 and August 3 w/in 1/4 mile of 55th & State - in Englewood, one of the most notoriously violent areas of the South Side.

http://gis.chicagopolice.org/website/clearMap/viewer.htm?GEOCODE=5500%20s%20state%20st&DIST=2640&CRIMECODE=01A%2002%2003%2004A%2004B%2005%2006%2007%2009&DATEFROM=2015-07-21&DATETO=2015-08-03

i saw one aggravated assault in there. and i saw no indication that police had to use their guns during their response.

go on and poke around on there. surely the stats will support the idea that police are involved in responses that require them to use their guns daily. that's your point, right?

He won't respond to facts.

it would take decades, maybe a century to fully disarm the american public, but it has to be done, and eventually it will be. not in our lifetimes though. but at some point in the distant future, people are gonna look back at us in horror and wonder how we lived like this.

Yes. Less guns is clearly and obviously the answer. Less guns for police and civilians. Anyone who disagrees is a fucking moron. The end.

Here's a little bit on Australia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pOiOhxujsE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYbY45rHj8w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVuspKSjfgA


A lot of ya'll sound like Philip Van Cleave.

since nobody wants to talk about Australia's model

going back and forth with a couple of friends on this topic lead me to this...

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/05/07/gun-homicide-rate-down-49-since-1993-peak-public-unaware/

I can't remember where I first heard it, but the sentiment was that homocides by firearm were actually decreasing

and then this graphic jumped off the screen

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/files/2013/05/SDT-2013-05-gun-crime-1-2.png

so during the cocaine 80s and crack era there was a peak

question to self, self, what lead to the decrease

right around that 1993 mark

we passed the Brady Bill for increased background checks

and the 'assault weapons' ban

= decrease in homocides by firearm

there was another story that I found that evene extrapolated the idea to the state's rights meme

that is, states with stricter gun regulations = less homocides by firearms

so yeah, it works there and it works here.

i think that's why this "no guns" movement is not gaining any traction
outside of columbine or sandy hook
white folks wasn't getting killed by guns like that
so they didnt care
even with sandy hook NRA is saying it was a hoax and/or inside job so they not turning their guns in

it has to be something in black ppl's (ice) water to make them pick up a gun THAT much quicker than whites and kill somebody

south central LA, southside Chicago and baltimore black ppl singlehandedly outpacing whites with these GSW murders

or you could respond to sowhat's post where he shows the actual calls beat cops get on the south side. Or you could watch the videos on australia.

But you don't give a shit about facts.
Which is why you only bring up Sandyhook and Columbine. There have been 224 mass shootings in 2015.
You're painfully unaware.

NM

so when a person suffers a traumatic GSW they have to be transported to a hospital on another side of town or out in the burbs.

The U of Chicago used to have an adult trauma unit but it closed in about 1988. several community orgs are pushing the university to open an adult trauma unit at its world-famous hospital. so far it hasn't budged.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-trauma-center-study-met-0120-20150119-story.html

and has no response when his bullshit gets debunked

anybody willing to do any research knows that there are less kilings by cops when they have highly restricted or no access to guns

there are often even less cop killings

yes, if the citizens are still armed, it may make their jobs seem more dangerous and makes policy complicated but generally people use guns less often against cops that are unarmed bc they aren't the same threat

when one party is clearly unarmed...there are less shootings and less deaths by guns...miraculous huh?

the overall goal should be gradually disarming everyone but people are too stubborn and/or stupid to realize it's not impossible and it doesn't create new problems that don't exist

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/14/guns-suicide_n_3240065.html

but no america is special


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

We can't even have a candid discussion about race in America, and you want to open a dialog about 2nd Amendment rights?

Okay.

I'd rather we address the underlaying behavior and traditions that make American life -- particularly Black American life -- so cheap.

But I don't either discussion's ever gonna happen.

this post title is makin me thirsty!

People keep saying that MORE GUNS is the answer.

So I said LESS guns is the answer.

Think different.

What I love is people respond to it like I said "No guns is the answer."

how will the police handle these dudes

CONSIDERING.

btw, militias pre-date police. the nation survived for decades w/militias but w/o police.

know your history - http://countercurrentnews.com/2015/04/police-originated-from-slave-catching-patrols/

>how will the police handle these dudes

and maybe just MAYBE
a. they'll arm up more and kill each other
b. or try to disarm

i do believe when confronted with their own obstinance will they back down off their own shit

i just want to be there for comments

*sad*
- i don't understand why they are destroying their own communities
- such a violent culture
- wouldn't happen in this neighborhood


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

with no guns......also cops be in bad physical shape....one reason they always shooting people...they literally dont wanna do the "leg work".....LOL...

oh wait. that's reality.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Republican_Army

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/02/18/5-countries-where-police-officers-do-not-carry-firearms-and-it-works-well/

...but anyway, for disarmament of police to succeed we'd first need to address the root causes of gun violence among civilians w/the aim of disarming civilians (by the civilians' personal choice, not by force or operation of law). that would take several generations. decades of work. it all starts w/ppl having the will to do the work, of course. w/o that we'll never disarm ourselves or our police.

Because a lot of folks believe they need guns to protect themselves from us. How do you significantly and realistically breed that out of the population to the extent that at least 55%-60% of the dominant group see it that way?

I appreciate your honesty though.

New York Style.

i aint een gon mention the lil ole Cs and Bs

successfully, even.

it can be done. especially w/support from the National Guard and the military. and/or w/armed police in very limited circumstance. the fact that certain organized crime orgs operate in the USA is not a reason our police cannot be disarmed. not when other similar jurisdictions have successfully handled an organized crime problem even though their police were unarmed.

>oh wait. that's reality.
>
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/topics/troubles_security_forces

Police shouldn't have guns, but this needed pointing out. The UK government used armed police and hundreds of thousands of soldiers on the streets of NI for around 30 years and only removed them after the peace agreement*.

UK police in and around potential terrorism targets (so most of London) routinely carry on patrol. It's depressingly common to see armed police around here these days.

*That's not to say controlling a terrorist organisation with expressed aims to kill civilians, politicians and police wherever possible is in anyway comparable to controlling a drug cartel though. US police still shouldn't need guns. Just better laws. Let those battles happen on the stock market.

white people feel entitled to that shit now though since they created a right to it in the 2nd amendment

Give less licenses out.

Tax the shit out of gun manufacturers and sellers so it's more expensive to manufacture and sell to civilians than the military.

Stop telling the Police they're at war and kitting them out like they're storming the Emerald City when they're patrolling the residential areas of mainland America.

Develop a national attitude so that anyone who feels the need to walk around with the power of life and death over other humans on their hip next to their iPhone is rightly seen as at best a bit fucking weird, most possibly dangerously insecure and definitely not friend material. Turn these paranoia-drenched pindicks vainly searching for self-worth within high-powered weaponary into social fucking outcasts and it'll die out within a couple of generations.

Or just carry on dying and shit.