...at least, in Florida, that is...

http://www.healthnutnews.com/2-more-mds-1-prominent-holistic-one-of-missing-docs-have-been-found-dead-bringing-the-total-to-8/

2 more MD’s (1 prominent holistic, & one of missing docs) found dead, bringing the total to 8


As some of you know, It brought me no joy to be the one to break all of the stories on each doctor found within the span of about a month, starting with the beloved Dr. Bradstreet. He was the first, and was found dead on June 19th in a river with a gunshot wound to his chest. They did find a gun in the river nearby. He was from Florida. Many experts are questioning how he died. Then there was Dr. Hedendal who was found dead in his car on Father’s day. The same day Dr. Holt was found dead. Both were found on the East coast of Florida, both chiropractors and both fathers, both found dead on Father’s day. Then we had Dr. Teresa Sievers found murdered in her home here in Florida as well. Then Osteopath Lisa Riley found with a gunshot wound to her head with a gun next to her in S Georgia. Then shortly after (just days ago) was another East Coast Florida death, as Dr. Ron Schwartz MD was found murdered in his home. I tried to gently break all the stories, and never intended this to be a series that I wrote. . It’s been tough, but some leaders in the holistic community have encouraged me to continue to report as the truth must be known. Even if nothing else to remember these great doctors who helped so many during their careers.

I’m sorry to say that Dr Nicholas Gonzalez, a well loved holistic alternative MD and author has died suddenly. I was fortunate enough to meet this brilliant man, and my other half (also a doctor) had interviewed him several times. His clinic sent out an email to his patients yesterday that read in part:


“The cause of death was cardiac related, it appears, as he suddenly collapsed and was unable to be revived. Dr. Gonzalez was in excellent health otherwise so his passing is quite unexpected.”

I am told he was alone at the time of his death and found by family.

Our heart goes out to all his family and friends (many of which are mutual to ours) In fact, some mutual friends wrote a beautiful write up about this brilliant man here. I let them break this news gently as they knew him better, hence the reason I didn’t break this story.

The second has to do with the doctor Jeffrey Whiteside MD who I first reported on nearly 3 weeks ago. You can read how his family said he just “walked away” never to be seen again and not a shred of evidence in nearly a month. Then suddenly the other day he was featured on GOOD MORNING AMERICA and Now authorities have announced it Jeffrey Whiteside’s body and a that a .22 caliber gun was found nearby. They had said days earlier in a statement in the local papers in their area that they were aware of my stories and were not ruling them out that his death was related. From the article


The Door County Sheriff’s Office confirms the body found in Door County Wednesday is Dr. Jeffrey Whiteside, bringing an end to a nearly 4-week search for the physician.






Chief Deputy Pat McCarty said at the news conference Thursday that a .22 caliber gun was recovered at the scene. Investigators believe the body was there for “some time.”

Once again, my heart goes out to all friends and family of these doctors. I’ve made a thorough timeline now on all the doctors who have disappeared or been found dead. They are as follows.

1) June 19th, 2015 – Dr Bradstreet, formerly of Florida, now practicing in Georgia was found with a gunshot wound to his chest in a river. The small town locals ruled the death almost immediately as a suicide; but many have their doubts. This same day in Mexico, on June 19th, 2015, three doctors were traveling to the State Capital in Mexico, to deliver some papers. They were reported missing that day. This is the only case outside of the US. Authorities said they found the bodies, but the family says those bodies look nothing like their family members; and they are demanding more proof and more testing. A sad but riveting article was written about those details here.

2) June 21st, 2015 – Father’s Day: We have two dead chiropractors, Dr. Holt and Dr. Hedendal (both reported to be fathers), in Florida; both found on the East Coast, both were presumably healthy, and both were described as very fit. We still have no cause of death listed in the articles we can find on either one. A few people have contacted me about Dr. Hedendal, 67, but admit that they were surprised by his death and still find it shocking. Interestingly, Dr. Holt (33), lived in North Carolina; which is the state where Dr. Bradstreet’s body (the first doctor to be found) was discovered two days prior. Dr. Holt was visiting Jacksonville, Florida, though, when he died there. Dr. Bradstreet (see story #1) was living in Georgia, at the time of his death; and before that, he lived in the neighboring state of Florida. A few mutual friends of Dr. Holt have contacted me who I know. They are doctors and tell me a cause of death that I find rather shocking and cannot confirm, therefore, out of respect for the family I will not list that here. Both were well loved by their patients, community, friends and family.

3) June 29th, 2015 – The beloved holistic Theresa Sievers MD was found murdered in her home. Her co-worker says she was known as the “Mother Teresa of South Florida.” Her husband and children, were in Connecticut, at a family reunion. The authorities have been investigating for two weeks “around the clock,” and now say that she was targeted. Her murder was not random, nor was it a home invasion; and when the facts come out: “…books and movies will be written about it.” It’s that big of a story. On this very same day, June 29th, Jeffrey Whiteside MD a pulmonologist went missing , vanishing when he simply “walked away” . Dr. Whiteside, known for his successful treatment of lung cancer, disappeared in Door County, Wisconsin, while vacationing with family. They say he was on foot, and had no vehicle; and numerous reports call it “mysterious,” saying he too, vanished without a trace. They’ve been searching now for three weeks, and even colleagues have joined in (along with bloodhounds, drones search parties, and helicopters); but not one shred of evidence has surfaced.

4) July 3, 2015 – Dr. Patrick Fitzpatrick MD goes missing. He was traveling from North Dakota, to neighboring Montana (which he did often as his son lived there), and his truck and trailer were found on the side of the road. The search has expanded, but authorities say it’s like he vanished without a trace. He’s 6′ tall, and described as Irish-looking, with a goatee; and details can be found on the links.

5) July 10th, 2015 – Lisa Riley 34 years old, DO (Doctor of Osteopathic medicine) is found in her home with a gunshot wound to her head. Her husband called it in to 911, he has a prior record, and he was actually charged with attempted murder on his ex, Ms. King, before charges were eventually dropped. Evidence showed that there was gun residue found on Ms. King’s hand, and not Mr Riley’s. Riley’s story corroborated this, but King’s allegedly didn’t, and her story kept changing. At least, that’s what evidence showed at the time. (click link in this paragraph for their story with details on all of this)

We hope all 4 missing doctors are found to be alive and well. Our hearts go out to the other 5 doctors, who were found dead; and we hope the authorities get to the bottom of each death, and that they find the killer (or killers) soon – of those doctors, who appear to have been murdered.

This is me, Erin Elizabeth, from July 14, 2015; still concerned for my own better half of many years, who is a prominent, outspoken, holistic DO, himself.

5) July 19, 2015 A month to the day after the first doctor (Jeff Bradstreet MD) was found dead with a gunshot wound to his chest, we have Dr. Ron Schwartz, who was found murdered in his E Coast Florida home. Sadly, he was shot to death. We don’t know if he was holistic, but he was a licensed and lived between Florida and Georgia. He was a gynecologist who lived in an unincorporated part of Jupiter Florida on a few acres or more and some say he had a side business of an organic lawn service.

7) July 21, 2015 Dr Nicholas Gonzalez, a holistic alternative MD has died suddenly. I’ve met this brilliant man and my other half (also a doctor) had interviewed him several times. His clinic sent out an email to his patients that read in part: “The cause of death was cardiac related, it appears, as he suddenly collapsed and was unable to be revived. Dr. Gonzalez was in excellent health otherwise so his passing is quite unexpected.” It is reported that he was alone the time of his death. Our heart goes out to all his family and friends (many of which are mutual to ours) In fact, some mutual friends wrote a beautiful write up about him here. I let them break this news gently as they knew him better, hence the reason I didn’t break this story.

8) July 23, 2015 Authorities announce that the body found is Dr. Jeffrey Whiteside who has been missing over 3 weeks. They article states ” Office confirms the body found in Door County Wednesday is Dr. Jeffrey Whiteside, bringing an end to a nearly 4-week search for the physician. Chief Deputy Pat McCarty said at the news conference Thursday that a .22 caliber gun was recovered at the scene. Investigators believe the body was there for “some time.”

Again our hearts go out to all the friends and family of the doctors. We knew some of these doctors and they were wonderful people and will be missed by so many.

Erin Elizabeth July 23, 2015 East Coast of Florida XO

- See more at: http://www.healthnutnews.com/2-more-mds-1-prominent-holistic-one-of-missing-docs-have-been-found-dead-bringing-the-total-to-8/#sthash.LUebdsYh.dpuf

(mod edit - read this link too -- http://m.snopes.com/2015/07/21/five-holistic-doctors-dead/)

http://theheartysoul.com/shocking-update-another-holistic-doctor-found-dead-in-florida-bringing-the-total-to-9/?t=TSOE

SHOCKING UPDATE: Another holistic doctor found dead in Florida bringing the total to 9


r Abdul- Karim was a holistic dentist who helped the underprivileged, and had a Non Profit foundation set up 2 years ago to do just that. His fraternity brother, patient and long time friend said it just “doesn’t add up” about the shocking death of his friend on Tuesday, July 21st. A passerby found him dead on the side of the road at 10PM EST. RIP

It brings me no joy to report on this amazing man and dentist who I’ve been researching now for the better part of the evening, after someone sent me the information that he’d died suddenly at 41 while training for a half marathon. Dr. Hakeem Abdul-Karim, DDS, P.A , better known as “Doc”, appeared to be extremely fit, and only 41 years old. He is described as a man of faith and strong character who left a Non Profit foundation behind that he started to help the underprivileged, which I hope will carry on his name. The more I search on the man and the holistic sites that rave about him, the more awesome I see he was.

“Doc” wasn’t your typical dentist or typical person by any means. He excelled in every way imaginable that I can find. Besides being in top shape and having extensive training in surgery, he treated severely disadvantaged children, and even mentally ill patients and his website says he practiced “preventive dentistry” and his Facebook page shows he liked many holistic sites such as the International Academy of Biological Dentistry and Medicine (which I suggest you all like) as well as Healing with Nutrition, several functional medicine pages and other natural holistic websites.

He also had an A+ rating on the BBB’s site , no complaints ever that I see of, and had many all five star reviews on the review sites from his patients who obviously adored him.

I am reading on Facebook pages about what a kind gentle man he was who loved what he did and his patients adored their “Doc” It appears he was very involved in his church and started a non profit foundation 2 years ago so that his legacy would live on to help other (especially kids) after he’d passed away.

Doc was a man who loved people, especially disadvantaged children, and he loved the Lord with all of his heart. For many years, Doc gave generously of his time and his treasure in support of those passions. About two years ago, Doc established a private non-profit foundation to ensure that his passion would survive beyond his lifetime.

We’re sure he never expected his lifetime would be so short.

Now, I thought twice about including him in my series of holistic doctors who have been found dead here in the last few months- many who were very young, and like Dr. Abdul-Karim, just died suddenly at a young age which appears has been a big shock to his friends, family and many adoring patients.

I had seen another site, that reported on my stories, add a young dentist to the list (we’ve not reported on any holistic dentists until now) who had died recently here in Florida. I didn’t do a story on that dentist (Dr. Castellano age 44) as I couldn’t find a cause of death and, unlike a few other Florida doctors who died, I didn’t have friends or patients in common to talk with to discuss a cause.

But Dr. Abdul-Karim was 41, holistic and it states clearly he died of a massive heart attack while training and was found that evening by a person passing by who saw him on the side of the road.

He may have very well fit and 41 and just died of natural causes- even if his friend say it simply “doesn’t add up” I’m certainly not saying that he didn’t. But with so many other holistic MD’s and DO’s (and now a dentist) dying suddenly who were so healthy fit and vibrant (and he was in this region of the US) I’m going to go with my gut and do this story.

If nothing else, people can see the great work “Doc” did and know that the world lost a wonderful man who was only 41 (just 4 days away from his 42nd birthday!) and perhaps someone will be compelled to share this or donate to the GoFundMe Page for his non profit foundation so that his name might live on to help others.

With every other story I’ve done, I end up receiving emails from patients (and sometimes family members) who often have more information. That may be the case here too, or maybe not. Remember 6 of those who were found dead within the last month or so were found here in the South East (most here in Florida) I know some holistic doctors who are worried and admittedly (though it could be one big coincidence) I always say that I am concerned for my better half- a holistic doctor as well.

So rest in Peace “Doc” . May the foundation carry on your name to help others for years to come. My heart goes out to his friends, family and legions of fans who obviously loved him very much.

This is Erin Elizabeth reporting from the E Coast of Florida here on July 25th, 2015

Stay safe.

Especially the chiropractors.

to die?

I'm assuming that you believe that

Trayvon deserved to die because he had a hoodie on,
Eric Garner deserved to die because he was a big Black man selling loosies,
Samuel Dubose deserved to die, because he had no license plate on the front of his car,
Tamir Rice deserved to die because he was a 12 year old child playing with a TOY pellet gun,
Walter Scott deserved to die because he was running away from an officer...

You can leave OKP, and go back to Fox News...

Not my opinion. I'm not justifying their deaths, but practicing fraudulent medicine to the detriment of patient health is a far cry from being a black kid in a hoodie.

Need I remind you that Allopathic (i.e., conventional) Medical Care is the 3rd leading cause of death?

Need I remind you that the US spends the most on health care and has the greatest rate of disease of all industrialized nations?

Need I remind you that it is a common practice for people to be on medication for their entire lives (or a good portion of it) for disease conditions that are preventable and curable?

Who's the REAL fraud here.?

I'm not justifying their deaths, but
>practicing fraudulent medicine to the detriment of patient
>health is a far cry from being a black kid in a hoodie.

People dying/being killed is unjustifiable (unless it is a REAL self-defense situation; unlike these "crying wolf" situations that many of these police officers like to claim), whether it is because they have a different ethnicity/skin color or whether they have a different approach to healing/helping people.

Either way, Witch hunting is WRONG. Period.

But that ain't the case.

Most people know at least one person that had issues western medicine couldn't fix, but a chiropractor or naturalpathic doctor eventually did.

---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

The idea that inflammation or mechanical disturbance of spinal nerves causes illness in a wide variety of organ systems is 100% not true

>The idea that inflammation or mechanical disturbance of
>spinal nerves causes illness in a wide variety of organ
>systems is 100% not true
>

where conventional doctors failed.

Within a certain scope they can gelp people feel better

Outside of that scope is where problems happen

They are excellent at trauma and emergencies/urgencies (i.e., gunshots, knife stabbings, car accidents, and the like).

Once they step out of that lane and start trying to deal with degenerative diseases and chronic illnesses, then things really go bad, WAAAYYYY more often then not.

But I understand why they want to work in other areas besides trauma related situations (despite the fact that they are so bad at it); the more revenue streams you have, the better things are for business.

Is lying

Anyone who says that gaps in medical knowledge are reason to avoid it has agenda. Because if academic medicine doesnt have the answer, no one else does.

What separates academic medicine from everything else is the need for a mechanism. It isnt enough to say *what* happens, *how* and *why* are equally important. And thats unique.

for the longest because western physicians can't explain how a lot of their medicine works so therefore they dismiss kt altogether...even though the Chinese medicine has 1000s of years of evidence to show its ability to treat and heal people...


>What separates academic medicine from everything else is the
>need for a mechanism. It isnt enough to say *what* happens,
>*how* and *why* are equally important. And thats unique.

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2013/10/traditional_chinese_medicine_origins_mao_invented_it_but_didn_t_believe.html

2,000 years...



>http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2013/10/traditional_chinese_medicine_origins_mao_invented_it_but_didn_t_believe.html

But that's not quite so magical sounding, lol.

Chinese medicine began under Mao and that wasn't true at all (just like Martial Arts didn't begin under Mao even though he made it part of his cultural revolution) so now you're deflecting...

Just make sure you know what you're talking abt before you attempt to discredit something that's been proven to heal ppl oven 100s of centuries while the west/US was using crude methods to treat ppl

>But thats not quite so magical sounding, lol.

>Chinese medicine began under Mao and that wasn't true at all
>(just like Martial Arts didn't begin under Mao even though he
>made it part of his cultural revolution) so now you're
>deflecting...

No, my point is that "Traditional Chinese Medicine" didn't exist as such before Mao. There were lots of folk remedies all over the place, like anywhere else really, and Mao decided to repackage them as TCM because he didn't succeed in getting enough medically trained doctors to cover the huge population that he was supposed to lead into a better future. He basically figured that a mass-scale placebo effect was better than admitting to his people that his healthcare plans never quite took off. And people in the West are eating that shit up because they pretty much think that Asians are unicorn wizards. If there's anything in "T"CM that works, it's thanks to the broken clock principle.

>Just make sure you know what you're talking abt before you
>attempt to discredit something that's been proven to heal ppl
>oven 100s of centuries

100s of centuries? So now they've been curing cancer in China for tens of thousands of years all of a sudden? And it's *proven*? I must really have no clue indeed, thanks for enlightening me.

They were sets of warring tribes.

Please provide some type of reference for this claim.

Hell, please provide some type of reference that indicates Germany was doing anything remotely close to civilization and order 2000 years ago.

People have practiced folk medicine all over the world, but we exoticise Asian folk medicine and elevate it to something it isn't

>People have practiced folk medicine all over the world, but
>we exoticise Asian folk medicine and elevate it to something
>it isn't

Wrong - ppl haven't "exoticised" anythjng, in fact, here in the west in general and US in padticular, most ppl w/o knowing much abt traditional chinese medicine think like you unfortunately and think w its just quackery and that Chinese medicine yielded no real health benefits, beyond a "placebo effect," until the influence of the west's modern medical standards

Sad

Shows that the arrogancd of eurocentric thinking effects all of us

It's built around superstitions about chi and animal essences. Address the rhino horn thing. It has none of the properties the Chinese say is has, because it's made of the same shit as your hair and fingernails.

>People have practiced folk medicine all over the world, but
>we exoticise Asian folk medicine and elevate it to something
>it isn't

And what is western medicine, beside a death agent?

is the answer is a fool...or at the very least, extremely brain washed and/or naïve.

They tell you on the very medications that they prescribe to heal you, that this shit just may kill you...or jack you up in some other way that will leave you in a much worse condition than when you began taking the medicine. Their medicine is toxic, plain and simple and SHOULD BE AVOIDED AT ALL COSTS.

>
>Anyone who says that gaps in medical knowledge are reason to
>avoid it has agenda. Because if academic medicine doesnt have
>the answer, no one else does.
>

The only REAL agenda that anyone has around here, is the AMA and all of their affiliates and associates, and their agenda is to separate as many people as possible from their hard earned money.


>What separates academic medicine from everything else is the
>need for a mechanism. It isnt enough to say *what* happens,
>*how* and *why* are equally important. And thats unique.

Yeah, well academic medicine can't even get around to making the "what happened". the proper and right thing to happen. They need to work on that, FIRST, if they plan to stay in the business of healing/curing (and not just treating)disease.

result of medical mistakes...


>Especially the chiropractors.

---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

There are systemic problems in the health care industry, but it has more to do with staffing and bureaucracy than the idea that the knowledge base of modern medicine is faulty.

Also, in regards to surgery, the system rewards volume. Which will naturally lead to problems.

Hospitals are constantly trying to implement ways to reduce sentinel events, but the economics of medicine works against them, and insurance companies cobtrol that.

Deaths by medical mistakes hit records http://goo.gl/hrtz9s


>There are systemic problems in the health care industry, but
>it has more to do with staffing and bureaucracy than the idea
>that the knowledge base of modern medicine is faulty.
>u

>Also, in regards to surgery, the system rewards volume. Which
>will naturally lead to problems.
>
>Hospitals are constantly trying to implement ways to reduce
>sentinel events, but the economics of medicine works against
>them, and insurance companies cobtrol that.

I thought my post would convey implicit acknowledgement of that fact

>There are systemic problems in the health care industry, but
>it has more to do with staffing and bureaucracy than the idea
>that the knowledge base of modern medicine is faulty.
>
>Also, in regards to surgery, the system rewards volume. Which
>will naturally lead to problems.
>
>Hospitals are constantly trying to implement ways to reduce
>sentinel events, but the economics of medicine works against
>them, and insurance companies cobtrol that.

resolved. So what does that tell you?

The fact that the system rewards volume, in regards to surgery is indicative of a problematic paradigm.

Also, each facility has its own problems

Its not a particular cause at large altho it all ties back to economics. The issues manifest differently from facility to facility.

But that is not indicative of a faulty interpretation of anatomy and physiology. As ive already explained, chiropractics DOES suffer from that, as do most naturopathic and homeopathic intepretations.

don't bear witness to that...

Many of these preventable deaths are the result of Doctors misdiagnosing their patients...our health care system isn't really designed to get to the root causes of health problems but to simply over medicate patients with pharmaceutical drugs that are routinely having deadly adverse affects on them

This is why I believe Chinese medicine is way more advanced than the west at treating chronic illnesses (perhaps not as much though w/treating acute problems)

>Also, each facility has its own problems
>
>Its not a particular cause at large altho it all ties back to
>economics. The issues manifest differently from facility to
>facility.
>
>But that is not indicative of a faulty interpretation of
>anatomy and physiology. As ive already explained,
>chiropractics DOES suffer from that, as do most naturopathic
>and homeopathic intepretations.

im pretty sure i read that misdiagnisis was not countable in the study for some reason, and was thus excluded.

But the kind of errors that make up this number are someone who avcidentally gives 500 mg instead of 50, or gives blood to a patient without crossing it first.

A friend of mine whose anesthesia residency actually did the latter omce himself. He couldnt believe that he had made such a silly mistake, but it happened because of a logistical breakdown. He's a good doctor and if i would have no probem having him care for me. Those are the kinds of things that this study is describing. Doctors fudging diagnoses for $$$ is the kind of thing that happens in movies.

aka no shit

where lots of responsibilities is involved, THESE ARE PREVENTABLE DEATHS...those are words from HEALTH ADMINISTRATORS

I'm sure that wouldn't be your position if a loved one of yours died as a result of some prevenatble medical mistake

And I'm certain that's not your position when a cop, for instance, who also works in a field with lots of responsibilities, accidentally shoots and kills an innocent person

400,000 ppl is damn near the population of Miami...

>aka no shit

he had a highly-treatable cancer - his doctors who practiced evidence-based medicine recommended a toe amputation. Bob decided not to have it and instead had a toe nail removed. and he declined follow-up care. the cancer spread all over his body. by the time he sought more alt-treatment it was too late and he died.

good luck w/that stuff, bro.

any more than Steve Jobs' death was a result of holistic/alternative medicinal practices...so I'm not sure why you used Bob Marley as your example to refute non-western medicinal remedies

Bob Marley, same as Jobs, neglected ANY kind of treatment until it was too late

Ya'll mofos in here acting like western medicine has proven to be the only type of effective medicine that works while the US health care system hasn't cured nada smh...

But I'm not trying to convince you or anyone else of a thing because I KNOW what works for me (and other ppl as well)...and I'd bet my last dollar I'm in better health than probably all of you all practicing my "quackery" smh


>he had a highly-treaor cancer - his doctors who practiced
>evidence-based medicine recommended a toe amputation. Bob
>decided not to have it and instead had a toe nail removed.
>and he declined follow-up care. the cancer spread all over
>his body. by the time he sought more alt-treatment it was too
>late and he died.
>
>good luck w/that stuff, bro.

>Bob Marley, same as Jobs, neglected ANY kind of treatment
>until it was too late

not true. he did seek treatment - he declined the recommended treatment for religious reasons and went w/folk medicine.

medical category as CHINESE MEDICINE which is what I've been talking abt throughout this thread

You in here essentially talking abt "grandma home remedies"

So again, you need to know the difference between Chinese medicine vs "folk medicine" before you interject your opinions which don't apply at all to what I'm talking abt



>>Bob Marley, same as Jobs, neglected ANY kind of treatment
>>until it was too late
>
>not true. he did seek treatment - he declined the recommended
>treatment for religious reasons and went w/folk medicine.
>

that other shit is folk medicine.

healing practices weren't able to treat and cure illnesses SMFH

Like I said its clear you don't know what you're talking abt because I doubt you've used or even did any real research of your own besides a quick google search


>that other shit is folk medicine.

and they're killing endangered rhinos because they believe the horns, which are made of nothing but fucking keratin make men more virile.

the example of some ppl killing rhinos for their horns is only demonstrating how little you know abt what actually chinese medicine is...traditional chinese medicine is made up of a variety of practices that consists of acupuncture/qi qong/diet/massage/tai chi

I don't think you realize how your attitude (misinformation) reflects the eurocentric thinking that dismisses any system that isn't based on western traditions or isn't "science-based"

If you understood the fact that much of chinese medicine will ALWAYS fall out of the scope of western scientific methods...such as herbs because it can't be explained on a biochemical level but even western physicians in the US are now slowly coming around to admitting the health benefits of medicinal herbs...just like the west finally came around to admitting that acupuncture is more than just a placebo...and I'll say it to you again: just because doctors in the west finally came around to admitting the benefits of acupuncture and now is being practiced here in the west doesn't mean IT DIDN'T WORK beforehand for thousands of years in China in treating ppl w/blood-flow problems

Here's whats so ironic abt you reducing all of traditional chinese medicine to superstition and quackery because it doesn't fall under the purview of western science...but then when you look at modern medicine (pharmaceutical drugs in particular) which is science-based it is doing far more harm to ppl and isn't curing ppl of anything...in fact, taking these drugs are leaving ppl in a worse condition, sometimes even causing addiction and even death, than before they took the medication

This doesn't say much for "science" at all...so what makes this form of modern medicine any better than superstition...because its almost as if the medical establishment is experimenting on ppl to perfect these pharmaceutical drugs

Oh and what abt how our advanced modern science-based medicine is still using animals for testing which sbould be viewed as archaic


>and they're killing endangered rhinos because they believe
>the horns, which are made of nothing but fucking keratin make
>men more virile.

>the example of some ppl killing rhinos for their horns is
>only demonstrating how little you know abt what actually
>chinese medicine is...traditional chinese medicine is made up
>of a variety of practices that consists of acupuncture/qi
>qong/diet/massage/tai chi

qi gong is PURE superstition, and the effectiveness of acupuncture has never been proven in any rigorous study


>I don't think you realize how your attitude (misinformation)
>reflects the eurocentric thinking that dismisses any system
>that isn't based on western traditions or isn't
>"science-based"

If it has no basis in science and it's effectiveness can not be proven and measured scientifically, it's folk treatment.


>If you understood the fact that much of chinese medicine will
>ALWAYS fall out of the scope of western scientific
>methods...such as herbs because it can't be explained on a
>biochemical level but even western physicians in the US are
>now slowly coming around to admitting the health benefits of
>medicinal herbs...just like the west finally came around to
>admitting that acupuncture is more than just a placebo...and
>I'll say it to you again: just because doctors in the west
>finally came around to admitting the benefits of acupuncture
>and now is being practiced here in the west doesn't mean IT
>DIDN'T WORK beforehand for thousands of years in China in
>treating ppl w/blood-flow problems


What in the entire fuck are you talking about? You just described faith. It can't be proven on any level, any effectiveness is as a placebo. And, no, science has not recognized the effectiveness of acupuncture.


>Here's whats so ironic abt you reducing all of traditional
>chinese medicine to superstition and quackery because it
>doesn't fall under the purview of western science...but then
>when you look at modern medicine (pharmaceutical drugs in
>particular) which is science-based it is doing far more harm
>to ppl and isn't curing ppl of anything...in fact, taking
>these drugs are leaving ppl in a worse condition, sometimes
>even causing addiction and even death, than before they took
>the medication
>
>This doesn't say much for "science" at all...so what makes
>this form of modern medicine any better than
>superstition...because its almost as if the medical
>establishment is experimenting on ppl to perfect these
>pharmaceutical drugs
>
>Oh and what abt how our advanced modern science-based medicine
>is still using animals for testing which sbould be viewed as
>archaic


Well this is just fucking stupid. Why don't we just test drugs on people?

>>and they're killing endangered rhinos because they believe
>>the horns, which are made of nothing but fucking keratin
>make
>>men more virile.
>

You still haven't addressed the fact that Chinese "doctors" prescribe shit we KNOW to have zero effectiveness. Address the rhino horns.

>and they're killing endangered rhinos because they believe
>the horns, which are made of nothing but fucking keratin make
>men more virile.

leading cause of death (right behind heart disease and cancer).

What's this talk about dead rhinos (not that I want rhinos extinct) and NO MENTION of The SLAUGHTER and loss of life, that's taking place, via allopathic medicine?

folk medicine isn't necessarily the best at treating situations that evidence-based medicine has figured out.

it was a specific response to

oh nevermind. lol. there's no point.

because I've already said the west/US is best equipped to treat ACUTE medical problems (emergency medical situations e.g. getting your arm ripped off, losing a limb etc.) but Chinese traditional medicine has PROVEN to be more effective at treating CHRONIC illnesses (internal organs/respiratory problems etc.)

We have U.S physicians (Dr. Andrew Weil is one that comes to mind) who have been advocating for some time now that there needs to be a complete overhaul in how the US treats its sick...that Doctors need to incorporate (more) non-traditional methods in their practices such as medicinal herbs
...because it is becoming clear that our system isn't HEALING anyone...Weil is one of the US most reknown physicians in the entire country and he even has went so far as to call our so-called health care system a death care system that has been reduced to proscribing pharmaceutical drugs to treat every illness...and as a result we have a significant pct. of our population (including and especially the elderly) overly medicated and addicted to prescription drugs

>folk medicine isn't necessarily the best at treating
>situations that evidence-based medicine has figured out.
>
>it was a specific response to
>
>oh nevermind. lol. there's no point.

the line about 'preventable deaths'. that stuck out b/c i recently saw that Bob Marley documentary where his family and friends talked about the way he handled his cancer. i was struck learning that it likely would've been well-treated if he'd only had his toe amputated. but he decided to follow folk medicine instead - and he died. a preventable death. so i responded to what you'd said.

and i shouldn't have bothered b/c 1) i don't care what you think about this issue b/c you're wrong, 2) you won't change your mind, 3) you won't change my mind, 4) the ppl reading this have also made up their minds, most likely.

so this was a waste of my time. my bad.

>the line about 'preventable deaths'. that stuck out b/c i
>recently saw that Bob Marley documentary where his family and
>friends talked about the way he handled his cancer. i was
>struck learning that it likely would've been well-treated if
>he'd only had his toe amputated. but he decided to follow
>folk medicine instead - and he died. a preventable death. so
>i responded to what you'd said.
>
>and i shouldn't have bothered b/c 1) i don't care what you
>think about this issue b/c you're wrong,

Well I already told you I don't care what you had to say because I knew you didn't know what you were talking abt...and I CAN'T be wrong on something I KNOW works for ME and countless others...like I said, I'd be willing to bet you aren't in great health but yet you're trying to tell me what works and what doesn't smh



2) you won't change
>your mind, 3) you won't change my mind, 4) the ppl reading
>this have also made up their minds, most likely.
>
>so this was a waste of my time. my bad.

Yeah bye, Felicia

This talk of free healthcare is making folks nervous

in moving in on him.

I am hoping that God will continue to provide him with Divine Protection.

Good Health IS FREE, through proper living and life style choices. More and more people are beginning to realize this and THAT'S what Really has many of these people so nervous and concerned.

They are insinuating that big pharma is actually carrying out assassinations of holistic practitioners. These people scare me more than the ultra religious. They are anti-progress.

practioners?

How do you explain it?


>They are insinuating that big pharma is actually carrying out
>assassinations of holistic practitioners. These people scare
>me more than the ultra religious. They are anti-progress.

"Anti-progress" is not willing to accept the new paradigm shift that is already in motion and upon us.

>practioners?
>
>How do you explain it?

I'm about ready to put money on this.

Family member is sick, dying n fact. Western doctors state there's nothing more they can do for the patient. Naturalpathic dr says "let me have a go at it", and tries to save the patient. Patient believes in the dr.

Patient dies.

Family member blames holistic dr for giving the patient false sense of hope and for the person's death.

Family member starts killing similar practitioners in revenge, thinking "they'll never do this to another person ever again".



*edit* My money is on a former patient of the first doctor to get killed as being directly related to the murderer.

---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

>>practioners?
>>
>>How do you explain it?
>
>I'm about ready to put money on this.
>
>Family member is sick, dying n fact. Western doctors state
>there's nothing more they can do for the patient.
>Naturalpathic dr says "let me have a go at it", and tries to
>save the patient. Patient believes in the dr.
>
>Patient dies.
>
>Family member blames holistic dr for giving the patient false
>sense of hope and for the person's death.
>
>Family member starts killing similar practitioners in revenge,
>thinking "they'll never do this to another person ever
>again".
>
>
>
>*edit* My money is on a former patient of the first doctor to
>get killed as being directly related to the murderer.
>
>---------------------------
>
>"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the
>peace when we were getting laid out?
>Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances?
>Where is the peace then?
>They don't want to call for peace then.


would probably still be here.

Most often, people go to these conventional docs and allow their toxic, conventional methods to damn near kill 'em; and then the doctor proclaims that there nothing else that they can do. And he's/she's right, there is nothing else that he/she can do, except let you die, especially since he/she is the one that accelerated the death process.

If there was a rage to kill anyone, I would think that it would be convention docs, catching wreck. But if it truly is a maniac, who knows where their head is at

holistic medicine is far more faith than science. As a matter of fact, BJ Palmer, one of the fathers of the field, seriously considered making it a religion.

practices is.

That shit don't work, but the masses stay believing in it...now if that ain't religion-ish than what is?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3u2mBVFEHc

http://m.snopes.com/2015/07/21/five-holistic-doctors-dead/

people aren't reading.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

alignment issues and stuff like that


ppl go to chiropractors to fix other non spine-related ailments and illness? like acupuncture?

They're diagnosing allergies by feeling for muscle weakness while patients HOLD food. They're "treating" "diseased" organs and shit. It's pure fucking quackery.

the chiropractor i used to see when i was little had me relaxed and feeling loose

i never got why ppl dissed them


yo. allergies?

*backs out of post*

were any of them wearing basil when they died?

I laughed loud and told my neighbor. Well done.

can protect you in other ways:

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/266425.php

Health benefits of basil

Research indicates that there are several health benefits associated with basil.

A study by researchers at Purdue University2 revealed that basil "contains a wide range of essential oils rich in phenolic compounds and a wide array of other natural products including polyphenols such as flavonoids and anthocyanins."
The herb contains high quantitites of (E)-beta-caryophyllene (BCP), which may be useful in treating arthritis and inflammatory bowel diseases, according to research conducted at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology.3

Reduce inflammation and swelling - a study presented at the Royal Pharmaceutical Society's annual event, revealed that "extracts of O. tenuiflorm (Holy basil) were shown to reduce swelling by up to 73%, 24 hours after treatment".

Anti-aging properties - according to research presented at the British Pharmaceutical Conference (BPC) in Manchester, basil has properties that can help prevent the harmful effects of aging. Holy basil extract was effective at killing off harmful molecules and preventing damage caused by some free radicals in the liver, brain and heart.

Rich in antioxidants - results of a study published in the Journal of Advanced Pharmacy Education & Research showed that ethanol extract Ocimum basilicum

Nutritional profile for basil

Basil is rich in vitamin A, vitamin K, vitamin C, magnesium, iron, potassium, and calcium.

Nutritional value of basil per 100 g (3.5 oz)

Energy - 94 kJ (22 kcal) Carbohydrates - 2.65 g
Dietary fiber - 1.6 g Fat - 0.64 g
Protein - 3.15 g Water - 92.06 g
Vitamin A - 264 μg Thiamine - 0.034 μg
Riboflavin - 0.076 mg Niacin - 0.902 mg
Vitamin B6 - 0.155 μg Folate - 68 μg
Choline - 11.4 mg Vitamin C - 18.0 mg
Vitamin E - 0.80 mg Vitamin K - 414.8 μg
Calcium - 177 mg Iron - 3.17 mg
Magnesium - 64 mg Manganese - 1.148 mg
Phosphorus - 56 mg Potassium - 295 mg
Sodium - 4 mg Zinc - 0.81 mg

Source: USDA Nutrient Database5

There's only evidence-based medicine and folk medicine. If The Dalai Lama or Emperor of Japan get sick, they're going to see doctors who practice evidence-based medicine. When scientists prove folk remedies effective, they incorporate them into evidence-based medicine.

for thousands of years while so-called evidence-based medicine that the western world relies on, particularly here in the U.S., isn't healing anyone...even a lot of the more respected western physicians such as Dr. Weil have admitted we don't have a health care system but a "death care system" that has over medicated an entire society and getting them addicted to very dangerous pharmaceutical drugs...




>There's only evidence-based medicine and folk medicine. If
>The Dalai Lama or Emperor of Japan get sick, they're going to
>see doctors who practice evidence-based medicine. When
>scientists prove folk remedies effective, they incorporate
>them into evidence-based medicine.

It's been tested, objectively and scientifically, and proven to be a placebo at best. You need to learn to separate the medical-industrial complex from science-based medicine.

examples where chinese medicine has been used to treat and ultimately cure illnesses and diseases ranging from various cancers to problems with internal organs that western medicine hasn't had any results in treating

The west has been sending physicians to China as far back as the sixties to conduct studies on ppl suffering illnesses that doctors in the the west hadn't been able to effectively treat

And Chinese medicine almost had a 90% cure rate and the patients they weren't able to cure still showed significant improvement in their condition.

Chinese medicine and western medicine are based on two totally different principles that begins as far back as Hippocrates who is considered the father of modern medicine

In the west it is believed that "nature" (fanciful theories according to the west) is incapable of healing the body and that man/doctors should usurp such an archaic healing process

While the principles of Chinese medicine is based on the principle that the human body is perfectly capable of healing itself and that medicine should be used ONLY to assist in that process - they believed (as we're witnessing right today) that when you stripped the body of healing itself it creates dependency on and ultimately addiction to medicine

It has not been that long for example that physicians in the west started to recognize the healing benefits of acupuncture (they believed, like you, that it really served as a placebo) once they were able to *explain* how acupuncture works on a molecular level that's when they said it has healing benefits while the Chinese have used this practice to treat ppl for THOUSANDS OF YEARS...and just because doctors who went and studied acupuncture in China and was able to explain HOW it works doesn't negate that it had been working in China before it could be explained in the west




>It'abeen tested, objectively and scientifically, and proven
>to be a placebo at best. You need to learn to separate the
>medical-industrial complex from science-based medicine.

Post on okp?
(*from people who may or may not be terrible patients)

Kill You with his/her intrusive methods and/or toxic and poisonous drugs.

OKP doctors and scientists have way more patience than I do

...this episode normally doesn't run until the vaccines are being discussed.

rarely from folks with real health issues
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.